Was Big Paul at Gotti's intiation ceremony?

We all know the two disliked each other. I wonder when Gotti, Angelo,and Gene got inducted if Big Paul was at the ceremony or if Neil oversaw the ceremony since he was head of the blue collar side of the family. I think i read that neil and Joe N gallo inducted the bergin crew guys but not sure

Its quite possible. What you have to keep in mind is that Gotti was made in the late seventies, when law enforcement didn't really penetrate the upper echelons of the Mafia just yet (so Paul probably did conduct ceremonies himself). Second, a proposed member must be approved by all the members of the family (or at least the Capos and boss, can't remember exactly). If Paul didn't want to make John Gotti, he would have said no and that was that. So he probably had a positive regard for him at the time. And Dellacroce seemed too loyal to protest any potential veto by Paul, in my opinion.

I would think so as well.Castellano really disliked Demeo around that same time and he inducted him personally I believe.From what I have read he refused to make him even as Gaggi pressed hard for years.

I don't think he knew about the Bergin Crew's drug dealing until the 1980's. What really pissed him off was the Ruggiero tapes. He already had legal troubles from the DeMeo and Commission cases at the time.

I can't say that there have never been exceptions,but my understanding is that the Family Boss was always present at a making ceremony, at least during Gotti's era. Usually,this was the time when the new Soldier was officially introduced to the Capos and the Boss. Of course,he already knew this information,but it seems to be a time honored tradition.

Also, Gotti was made around 1980,after serving his time for the McBratney killing,which was a favor for the now deceased Carlo Gambino. So he was still in good standing with Paulie,and in fact was made the acting head of the Fatico crew. The whole drug debacle was still a couple years away.

John gotti was made in 1977 as soon as he was released from prison on the Mcbratney murder . Funnily enough brother gene gotti was made about 6 months before him

Not necessarily. Joe Bonanno said that there were members of his Family he had never met. Sometimes, the boss was not present when new members were sworn in. The Gambino Family being split in two different factions at the time, makes it plausible that Castellano was not present at Gotti´s induction ceremony.

Thanks for the correction. I didnt't even realize that I typed 1980 until I read your post. I'll chalk it up to a brain fart.

I remember reading greg depalma was taped recorded twice talking about his induction in 1977. the first time was the night he got made he was on a taped phone talking to a associate in L.a. all geddy talking about him and 11 or counting himself 10 others. they were listening to his phone cause of the Westchester theatre scam. he was talking to some big time jew, surpirised he didn't get whacked for that infraction he must have been a big earner. then he got caught blabbing to some one when he was hanging with the fbi Garcia guy saying john was made the same nite as me. he got caught on tape with jurnior gotti too and gotti's wife. if 12 guys got made that nite big paul was there I think. they must have inducted 50 members into the gambinos in 77 and since big paul just took over it would be in his best interest to be there. he told gravano im your father now. Sammy the bull never said names of the other guys he got made with. he might have been the first batch. he said around or right after Christmas. if were to believe nino gaggis nephew of the meeting in November 1976 when big paul askd neil to stay on as his underboss at the grandmothers house, they must have started making guys the next month around xmis or new years.

Carmine Galante lead the initiation ceremony when Joe Massino and others were made. I'm sure there are more examples of bosses not being present at these ceremonies.

Gotti Snr was in the can when Gotti Jnr, Skinny Dom, Mikey Scars and a few others were straightened out.

Didn't Gravano write in his book that Gotti Sr was not present at Juniors making ceremony because he didn't want to show favoritism, but after they all met with Gotti sr at another location?

After Carlo died Paul wanted to keep things smooth between him and Neil. Neil was the underboss BUT he was given more authority over certain crew. For example he was allowed to promote certain guys to captain in crews he oversaw i think. Of course Paul would have to approve gotti and angelo's induction but i could easily see Neil actually doing the ceremony since he had big power for an underboss. Gravano was apart of the white collar branch of teh family so it makes sense that he Paul was there to induct him

@beanshooter:

You could be correct.

I think Junior was made 91, and think Gotti went to the can in 91, but I may be wrong.

What year did Gotti have that meeting with Gigante? The Commission meeting? Because i think Gotti jr was already made by then. Gotti told Chin and Chin said something like he was sorry to hear that.

I think it was Gravano who talked about it. No?

Gotti Sr went to jail December 1990.

Gotti Jr was straightened out in December 1988.

Correct. I think he was made capo in spring 1990

Gene Gotti got straightened out 1976

No, he was there, he just said he didn't want to sponsor him.

Got this from Michael Scars DiLeonardo court testimomy:
A. Up to the club where John was; John, Sr.
Q. What club?
A. Ravenite.
Q. And did you have an understanding at the time why John Gotti, Sr. the boss of the family, did not attend the induction ceremony?
A. Yes. John did a classy thing, being the son was being inducted into the family, he felt it wasn't right for him to be there, and be there for the procedure to pinch his finger and go through the whole ceremony, so he -- he stepped out of it and let others do it.
Q. And after the ceremony when you went to the Ravenite, were you actually introduced to other members of the family as a soldier?
A. John, Sr. first. And then everybody else in the family.

Oh sorry, pretty sure that in Sammy's book he didn't specify whether or not Josh Sr. was there only that he didn't sponsor him. I had never read Mikey Scars' testimony before.