Bonanno, Gambino, Costello, ever whack someone?

I never got a clear answer to this, do you guys know if Joe Bonanno, Carlo Gambino, or Frank Costello ever whack someone themselves? I have never heard any examples of either of them killing anyone when they were younger

Is that even a question? Of course they did

I don't have a clear answer for you,but if I had to speculate,I would pick Gambino as the one most likely to have been a hitter. He was made in Sicily when he was nineteen. As we know,the Sicilian Mob was totally ruthless,and would kill babies in their cribs if it was necessary to satisfy a vendetta.For them to make a guy that young tells me that he had a notch or two on his gun. In addition,a duplicitous,cunning weasel like Gambino knew that killing would have been a step up in his world,so I could see him doing whatever he had to do.

Prohibition was a brutal era. I would not be surprised if political shipments were not enough to keep Costello liquor protected. Would not be surprised if he (partners with Joe Kennedy) had a few 1920's notches on his killing belt. Murders Ordered, however: Abe Reles

Bonanno? Perhaps in Sicily. Not in America. His first two Consiglieres were brutally murdered, however.

I don't believe Gambino ever killed someone. It was a widespread rumor. He and Paul never made their bones.

Gambino killed ALOT, there was a reason every boss except him got moved on and whacked. Magano, Anastasia and Castellano

i don't think paul did but from what i've read in the past carlo was doing hits for mob bosses in sicily in his mid-teens. he was a ruthless killer in his day

Not sure about the others, but Joe Bonanno was a shooter for Maranzano during the Castelemarrasse wars, and he mentions in his book certain hits that the shooters did. I think he was in on shooting Peter Morello who was Maseria's second, and probably others....he gained a "reputation" in that war, and it was not from sitting on the sidelines....


and this is my first post...thanks

All shooters doing the war so you know they drop a body or two.

Good point, Joe Bonanno was indeed a gunner for Maranzano during the Castellamarese war. And welcome to the board.

I'm sure Carlo Gambino had done hits atleast in Sicily. He was respected by powerful mobsters almost immediately in the U.S and I contribute that to "Killers respect Killers". Frank Costello however...I don't actually know but I'd bet not

Id think costello probably orderd quite a few.if i had to guess about gambino n bonanno id say theyve both probably done a few. I think bonanno prolly had more notches tho

Can I throw old boy Carlos Marcello from the Big Easy into this convo? They were pretty small in numbers down here, so do you think he moved with the backing of NY or got dirty himself?

Aside from blog writers where do we have it from a good, reliable source that Gambino was made in Sicily at age 19? He may have been, but there are a lot of blogs out there that just repeat false information. There are a lot of books that repeat bad information. John Davis in books like Mafia Dynasty gets a lot of things wrong (he gets a lot of things right too). One example is the photo he includes of Anglo-Egyptian/Maltese/Sicilian mobster Salvatore Messina and claims it was Salvatore Maranzano. He and Jay Robert Nash were responsible for using the photo of Messina and claiming it was Maranzano. I believe they also claimed that Vito Cascio Ferro sent Maranzano and Gambino to America (he did not). So again, where did the claim that Gambino was made in Sicily at age 19 come from?

I'm with others in that Gambino was probably a killer before he even stepped foot on American soil. Bonanno I'd say was a killer in his youth as well. I just don't know enough about Costello's youth to say one way or another but I would imagine yes.

Too many people fall for the "innocent me" routine that Gambino and Bonanno portrayed. They played the poor old Grandfather routine for a reason.

Gambino was a wolf in sheeps clothing that's for sure!

Or should that be a Lion and a Fox in sheeps clothing!

Name one person killed. Name even one in which he was a suspect.

I think Joe Bonanno Sr. was high up the chain with Maranzanno, so I don't know if he got his hands dirty during the Castellammarese war.

ht2, thats exactly what I was thinking. I have never heard of either of them ever even being a suspect in a murder. Then again during prohibition there were a lot of murders and they did not solve a majority of them. I agree Bonanno and Gambino deffinitely played the old grandfather role really well. When I saw Bonanno's interview that he did for 60 minutes I legit almost thought that there was no way that he ever killed anyone, and I even felt bad for him a little bit. I just dont see him being ruthless maybe its because that was him in his old age, but that interview is one of the reasons I asked this question because I honestly dont see Bonanno having it in him, maybe its just me. I also DEFFINITELY cant see Salvatore (Bill) Bonanno being a killer, no way no how. I also saw the Meyer Lansky interview and he makes me question whether or not he has any murders under his belt. I guess being deceiving is one of the traits that these guys survive by. Here is the interview for anyone who has not seen it btw. The first one is part of the Bonanno 60 minutes interview, I cant find the whole thing. The second one is Meyer Lansky, very interesting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8dfYv1gj4c

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1UNJTPtmZhI

does anyone know of any murders that these guys were even suspects in? Im just really curious about this I really am curious about Meyer Lansky too, I just dont see him being a killer either, a moneymaker though with a brain no doubt.

Lansky I see a lot like Lefty Rosenthal, I'm not sure they wanted them to get their hands dirty because they were so good at numbers and making money.

Like Frank Costello said in The Departed, "a lot of people had to die for me to be me". Bosses generally don't get to the top without being dirty somehow. Of course you could probably take the Castellano approach, but that could backfire like it did for him too. And just because you are not suspected in a murder doesn't mean you have never killed. During the prohibition days there were so many murders most were not even attempted to be resolved unless they had concrete evidence in which most had none.

i've never heard of gotti, gigante, salerno, bellomo, cirillo, aiuppa, and giancana killing anyone either. they must not have made their bones and just happened to become feared bosses and ran an organization full of killers

Never heard of Chin's attempt on Costello?

Don't know who made their bones or not. I just took issue with saying Gambino killed "ALOT" when there's no evidence he killed anyone by his own hand. Looks like Carlo became a capo at a young age and would be giving orders, but the op wasn't asking about giving orders. Costello became acting boss for Luciano after Vito abdicated.

Lansky: Yes. The Bug and Meyer mob was violent. I can also see him whacking a Nazi supporter in NYC during WWII.

Gambino: No. He was born into a mafia family and was well connected in NYC before arriving. I don't think he ever pulled the trigger, mostly because he didn't have to.

Bonanno: Yes. He was Maranzano's underboss and chief of staff during the Castellammarese war. He was in his twenties and probably fearless back then. Plus, he supposedly owned a funeral parlor that used double decker caskets, it makes it easier to believe that he was hands on with the murders.

Heres the definitive answer

When these guys were made into they're respective families, to be made you had to be a murderer.

The only reason we don't know exact murders is because nobody flipped from then

Shit, until massino flipped when didn't even know gotti pulled the trigger once and that was on Vito borelli

What's the Castellano approach?



This is probably a myth. Exceptions were probably made for good earners and certain relatives. The mob is known for breaking it's own rules. Anastasia was selling buttons for about 50k.

Just gonna guess that he meant the "casteallano approach" as either meaning nepotism, or making money over killing people.


Louie to be made you had participate in murder(be a driver or a lookout or whatever) not actually be the shooter although some were, but them being made doesnt definitively say that they actually pulled the trigger on somebody.

Bonanno wasn't Maranzano's underboss. Angelo Caruso was.

Marriage

Interesting info. For some reason, I thought they had to actually pull the trigger.

Shooting at someone is not making your bones. That means Gigante never killed anyone, and neither did most of the Genovese leadership. I don't remember Luciano, Torrio, Gotti, Paul Vario or Matty Ianniello killing anyone either. All these mafia bosses never killed anyone. They just became feared bosses.

Nobody is ever born a made man, no matter what family he is born into. There is less evidence of Lansky ever killing anyone. There is no evidence of Bugsy Seigel, Sam Giancana or Paul Ricca killing anyone either.

No..there most definitely is. Ricca killed Emilio Parillo in Italy and Matt Kolb in Chicago. Siegel had a murder charge on his record and insisted on being involved in the Allie Green murder in LA.

Good call on Angelo Caruso being Maranzano's Underboss. People don't realize that most of the time, the Underboss isn't the Don's right hand so much as he's the guy with the second most street power. Bonanno may well have been the #2 of the Castallamarese faction, but he was not the #2 of the Maranzano. That was Caruso, who headed the non-Castallamarese wing.

Gotti shot Vito borelli in the head

As far as Ricca goes, in the old country, he killed a man named Emilio Parrillo supposedly for breaking an engagement to Ricca's sister. In reality Ricca killed Parrillo on Mafia orders. Ricca then killed Vincenzo Capasso, who had testified against him in the Parillo trial, by slitting his throat.
Bugsy Siegel was a prolific killer, and besides being suspected in the deaths of Maranzano and Masseria, it is beyond resonable doubt that he killed all three of the Fabrizzo brothers. I believe he was also one of the early Murder,Inc guys.

The Parillo killing is also alleged to have been personal. That would not qualify as making your bones. If Seigel didn't pull the trigger, then he didn't get his hands dirty according to the thread. The entire Genovese leadership since Vito Genovese have never killed anyone according to the thread. They just magically ascended to the top of the most powerful and feared organized crime family in NYC.

Not having evidence that they didn't kill people isn't the same as saying that they never killed. Undoubtedly they did, but we only know based on convictions or the words of informants. Considering that Mafia activities are supposed to be secret we shouldn't expect to know who killed whom. Just because we don't know who they killed, or that law enforcement doesn't know doesn't mean anything except them getting away with murder.

I think Bonanno might very well have killed someone during the roaring 20s. I find it hard to believe that he rose to number 2 in Maranzano's outfit at such a young age without proving himself first. Back in those days murdering someone mattered. Today it's all about making money.

It's also said that Gambino carried out hits for local Mafia bosses in Palermo before he went to New York. He was said to have made his bones and become inducted in Sicily.

Also keep in mind that Caruso was only chosen to be the underboss, because he headed a large group of non Castelemarasse in that family, it was to keep the family unified. Once Maranzano was killed he knew there was no way he would have taken over and he knew it...Bonanno was the defacto underboss in terms of power. Reading Bonanno's book he mentions several killings in the war, and with his ego they may have been his, and by stressing how imprtant they were he was taking credit "between the lines" so to speak.

Exactly. Saying otherwise is classic straw man.

I don't know much about Costello's early years, but I believe he rose up the ranks for no other reason than he was liked by Luciano and other key leaders. Luciano was primarily interested in making money and surrounded himself with men who were good at it. Costello probably had the business smarts and skill set for keeping the peace and running things smoothly. I question if he was even feared by others prior to becoming boss, but he would be feared after getting into that position.

According to John H. Davis' "Mafia Kingfish" he got plenty dirty himself, but he is not very specific about dates/names

Marcello worked with NY backing but he didn't listen nor answer to NY. He showed his power when Silver Dollar's son raised hell to NY to try and take over and called a meeting.

I would say it would be pretty safe to bet your life savings that Marcello killed someone.

Fuck yeah us southern boys dont answer to no damn yankees, Marcello and Trafficante were the definition of BOSS.

Well, together with a couple of others, he was part of the group that functioned as Maranzano´s gunners/bodyguards during the Castellammarese war. Strictly hierarchically speaking, an underboss of any Family, would not be given such a task. So Bonanno was not the underboss or number 2 at that point. The murders the Masseria side suffered were most certainly importanat in terms of the outcome of the war. No one can argue successfully that the losses Masseria suffered were insignificant.

Carlos Marcello had his enemies beaten to death and then buried in the swamp. For someone as ambitious as him who knew the value of making a buck I would wager he performed hits before I would say Costello could.

If you don't think Bugsy Siegel killed someone you're insane. He killed all 3 of the Fabrazzo brothers himself. Mulberry what's your angle man?

Chin was pretty mean I'd wager he got his hands dirty in his younger, pre Costello attempt days. Just speculation

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quote=BarrettM]Carlos Marcello had his enemies beaten to death and then buried in the swamp. For someone as ambitious as him who knew the value of making a buck I would wager he performed hits before I would say Costello could.

If you don't think Bugsy Siegel killed someone you're insane. He killed all 3 of the Fabrazzo brothers himself. Mulberry what's your angle man?
[/quote]

no angle. some posters are saying since there is no hard proof of gambino and bonanno killing anyone, that means they never made their bones. the same can be said of almost everyone in the mob.

You would have to go to New Orleans to understand our angle on Marcello. Marcello was considered more ruthless than the cunning type like Gambino. Marcello also ran NOLA was an iron fist that nobody challenged and lived other than Silver Dollar Sam's son and he knew not to get violent because he knew he would die.

Trust me, NOLA is like a third world country and Marcello was the dicstator. If compared to those listed on the name of this thread, I'd say Marcello could have could more than the three listed without a doubt.

Silver Dollar's son, that's Anthony correct? The late boss that died around 06-07? If I remember he got the reigns after Carlos passed and he drove the crime family straight into the ground not once tapping on the brakes.

And I'm going to Harras in Nola This weekend, and dropping my life savings on Marcello whacking people himself. I wonder what the odds are....

If any of them know anything they wont be too high....lol

I've read several accounts of Marcello's method, mostly used on underlings (made, not made, didn't matter) who he felt were skimming. They convened every Sunday morning to pay him his weekly percentage and those he felt were not giving him his due were detained for "questioning." If they didn't give satisfactory evidence to the contrary, they would be dispatched, strangled or shot, often by him personally, then dissolved in lye and dumped in the swamp. Since he lived on a 6400 acre swamp, he had plenty of room.

Tis true, drop a body under the swamp, a'int no body gonna find it. Gators, Crawfish, Crabs...they all gonna take a nibble or two or ten.

Agreed. I think that is what he had in mind when he bought all the "worthless" swamp land. Doesn't his family still have his place in Metairie? Wasn't it in Metairie?

Wasn't clear about his position, but you're saying he went from soldier straight to boss of one of the 5 families? If he was leader of the Castellammare faction, he must have had his own crew or was similar to a Capo maybe. Also, Valachi claimed that Bonannao was his sponsor during induction ceremony. Joe B. also claimed to have known Al Capone in 60 min interview. He must have been more important than a bodyguard.

This is how I looked at. Common sense tells me that Joe Bananas must have been highly ranked to have been given his own family.

Bonanno says nothing about his rank prior to his elevation. But he does say that during the war he acted as Mranzano´s chief of staff. Without mentioning any details, he also says that he didn´t attain that position by being a spectator. In that capacity, I suppose Bonanno was Maranzano´s right hand man (but not official underboss) taking care of stuff that needed to be done in order to win the war. As much as he was a gunner, he was also a bodyguard together with a group of men who called themselves "The boys of the first day". Because of the war, traditional ranks within the Family were not important. Keep in mind that the official boss Cola Schiro had vanished, the second most important member Vito Bonventre had been killed and Joe Parrino, another powerful member had been appointed boss by Masseria, but ostracized by his own group. All this put the Castellammarese in a disarray. We don´t know Bonannos rank before the war and after the dust had settled. But he was most likely an ordinary soldier. When Maranzano came out victorious, we know that Angelo Caruso was made Maranzano´s official underboss holding that position until Bonanno took over the Family. Also keep in mind that Stefano Magaddino, Bonanno´s cousin and the most powerful Castellammarese after the death of Maranzano, in a bid to control the NY Castellammarese, pushed Bonanno into the top position. In that regard, Bonanno´s climb from a mere soldier to boss sounds plausible. The Bonanno name carried a lot of weight within the Castellammarese comunity around this time. This must not be overlooked in my opinion.

So I guess functionally he was a top leader, but without any title.

I'm not sure we should necessarily assume the Costello hit was the only one Gigante was involved in. Nor do we know if those other guys were not personally involved in hits.

I'm making a mockery of their claims that guys like Gambino and Bonanno never killed anyone. People don't just become feared and respected mafia capos and then bosses for no reason. The only one who possibly didn't make his bones was Castellano. He was riding Gambino's coattails. He wasn't feared or respected by many in his family because his soldiers didn't believe he made his bones.

I see. Well, it's a rather futile discussion because there's just no way to know with some of these guys, one way or the other.

In some cases it is futile. Carl Sifakis in The Mafia Encyclopedia describes the making bones requirement as a myth. Being a cash cow or "producer" can be enough to get someone made. This was brought up in the mob myths thread.

I also found this article:
http://www.americanmafia.com/Feature_Articles_393.html

For what it´s worth, Costello was sentenced to a 10 month prison term back in 1915 for carrying a pistol. This doesn´t necessarily mean that he was a gunner, but apparently he was not totally unaccostomed to firearms.

Yes it was Metarie. The Marcellos still own a large portion of it, but they are far from in the OC picture. Carlos milked Louisiana his whole life then set his family up for success with his fortune, which is the way its supposed to work.

I could have seen any of these three killing someone in the Prohibition era or in Castellamarese.

I wouldn't be suprised to say the least that each of these guys carried out a murder in their youth. They definitely made their bones in one way or another.

Yeah, the Sullivan act was passed in 1911, requiring a permit for a concealed gun. I read that most ny citizens could not afford the $3 registration fee. I could be wrong but Costello seemed more on the white collar, business side of things. It's anyones guess what may have happened during prohibition and or a mob war.


From Kefauver Senate hearings:

Mr. Halley. What was your first occupation, the first business or occupation in which you engaged ?
Mr. Costello. I believe I worked in a piano factory, I told you.
Mr. Halley. Then I think after that, was it right after that that you were convicted on this gun charge ?
Mr. Costello. Yes, 1915, I believe.
Mr. Halley. After you were released from jail, what did you do then? Where did you work, or what occupation did you have?
Mr. Costello. Well, we were manufacturing— with a fellow named Horowitz, manufacturing kewpie dolls.
Mr. Halley. That was not a successful enterprise, was it ?
Mr. Costello. Well, we did all right with it. What do you call successful?

I just know that if you are a really good moneymaker/earner then it doesnt matter if you made your bones or not. with all of costellos political power I think he was very useful even if he never committed a murder. On that note, it has been said that you just had to participate in the murder conspiracy ( planning, cleaning up, crash car, getaway driver, dumping body etc) and not actually had to pull the trigger. If that is the case then I can see it possible that a lot of people made their bones, but to think that everyone has pulled the trigger is foolish and plain wrong and we all know it.

Also, by watching that 60 minutes interview with Bonanno its obvious that he did not like Luciano, I would think that he held a grudge for murdering Maranzano, his idol.

During prohibition, Costello was huge in alcohol distribution. I would think that all the Mafia bosses at the time craved his territory, which spanned from New Jersey to upstate NY. Even parts of Massachusetts and Hartford fell under his control. That may explain why particually the Genovese Family later inducted mobsters living in that area, many of them being partners with Costello early on. But during prohibition he survived by having Willy Moretti, a tough enforcer by his side.

And you´re right, Costello was def more white collar than blue. His huge earnings from prohibition, was invested in fully legit companies that did very well. I think I read in a wire tap transcription how angry Costello was with his psychriatrist Dr Richard Hoffman who had advised him to mingle with a better class of people. Costello angrily said that he had actually introduced Hoffman to an even better class of people, the ones in the political world.

Watch that 60 minutes interview with Bonanno, and wathc his eyes....he looked more than capable of killing somneone espcially when describing how Maranzano told him about how hard man was to kill, and he talks about "defending" himself

I have a feeling that most of the old time made guys killed someone when they were young. Or they were at least part of a hit team in some capacity.

Dellacroce is absolutely correct----there has never been a requirement to actually pull the trigger.Participating in any role,at any stage will suffice.This includes,but is not limited to : luring the target to the place he'll be killed,transporting or helping dispose of the body,or even just helping plan a successful hit.

People from Bonanno to Buscetta have made it clear that not everyone who gets made has to have participated in a murder. There were people with prestige positions, such as attorneys, politicians, physicians and even priests who were made members but had no need to be called to kill. Frank Desimone, the boss of the Los Angeles Family from 1956-67 was a licensed, practicing criminal attorney who probably never pulled the trigger on anyone. He's only one example and there are plenty of others.