Is Vito rizzuto a great gangster or just lucky

I just read the 6th family and obviously he was a more speacial gangster than your local brooklyn button but if he was in the US would he have ascended that high.You cant compare canadian LE to American LE he basicly contolled Montreal like Luciano controlled NY back in the day.

He did have international connections in Italy colombia Venuzuela because of his father

I think it's a combination of both, he was certainly at the right place at the right time. But he had to be smart and ruthless to survive the instability of the Bonnanos in the 70s/80s and the current wars. Not only that, he's pretty much made the Montreal crew his own family of its own (they don't even kick up to NY anymore do they?). Perhaps him and his pop being Sicilian gave them an edge, they tend to deal more in international rackets and drug traffic than American LCN want to get mixed up in.

But he was lucky in the fact that he got involved in the New York family that was biggest into drugs in the 1970s and happened to be in the city that was the main gateway for the drugs. And he was lucky that the Bonnanos were weak enough that he have a lot a freedom to do what he wanted to in Montreal.

Also canada is soft on crime, no ricoesque law meaning you can impose your will and not be touched. He could strut around like gottu if he wanted to and never see the inside of a jail, had he been in the u.s. he would of gotten life in tje 80's so its a couple of three things that ads to hos success, location,brains and braun.

Luck was involved for sure but he also was able to keep himself pretty well insulated. As some have already said, the Rizzuto's were more like "international gangsters" which is why I find them so fascinating. I don't understand how they got away with half the stuff they did. It sounds like they had some major international political connections though, like with the Saudi leadership etc. I'm not sure what "The Sixth Family" is like, but you should read "Mafia Inc." It's a really good (very long) book about the Rizzuto crime family. I've heard people say it's better than "The Sixth Family" but I really don't know. It also includes the more recent events like Rizzuto Senior's murder, and the stuff with Sal Montagna from NY coming up to gain control in Montreal.

I think that hes lucky that the opposing group sort of fell apart before he got back.

One thing is for sure, hes clipping people left and right like a damn boss right now! (allegedly)

Vito's the fucking man up there

Luck plays into any gangsters rise honestly. Look at Luciano, didn't he survive an attack that got him the nickname Lucky? Gotti was lucky Dellacroce kept him alive, Persico surviving the Gallo's attempt on his life, the list goes on and on. Not every boss rose to the top without luck.

As others have said Vito's location has helped him. Until the GTA gets on the ball with crime like the U.S. has he will ALWAYS be strong like he is. I seriously doubt anybody other than Raynald has the balls to try and clip him anymore and Dejardins doesn't have the soldiers Vito does.

Then I think his smarts have kept him alive as well. One is not respected like he is truly by fear, many like him because they ALL make a killing with him in power and he is not one to just pop folks for no reason.

To me regardless he goes down as one of the smartest gangsters around. He will not be challenged anymore unless he goes back behind bars which I doubt he does as the U.S. has NOTHING on him now unless he screws up or there is a rat which I don't see either with Canada's weak laws.

Like this dude ,Wish i were more tied in on that....Looks like the old days. When we would run ,ha just kidding

Drugs = power and money and they move tons upon tons. It wouldn't surprise me if Vito had 10x's the money of any NY boss.

Remember he went to south America around X-mas, probably to see his personal vault full of dollars and gold..

What, I like about the Rizzuto family is no one has flipped like New York families. I guess it does have to do with the laid back laws and sentences these guys receive. I really think Vito is top notch and very good at what he does. All this mess will settle down soon enough with him back from prison and able to run things.

In Canada you serve like 10 years for murder 1, so do the math. They are super soft.

In America, a mafia guy get life for jwalking if it is in the commission of a RICO enterprise.

My personal thoughts on this is that he's a smart gangster. I've always maintained it would be interesting to see what he did when he got out of prison - whether he was going to retire or take back what was his. I think it's obvious what he chose. More importantly, it's how he's done it that makes it all the more impressive. The specific targets have been taken care of. No collateral damage. No flashy shows of power. Just one by one his enemies have been taken care of. So in my opinion, some of the U.S guys should take a page out of his book on how to run things smartly.

There are a handful of made guys around today that were gunna be able to look back at and admire 30 years from now, Vito Rizzuto is one of those people

Isn't their only 20 guys up in Canada?

I think there were 20 something guys up there that were made into the Bonnano Family, that dosent include people like Lorenzo Giordano or that Francesco guy just the old timer, a decent t amount of which got shot recently

Yea there might be that many made into the Bonanno's but I thought Vito was making people on his own now anyways? He is rolling deeper than 20..

Agreed

He also apparently made someone who isn't italian, which is totally ridiculous..

"I do what I wanttttt" - Vito Rizzuto in cartman's voice.

i doubt those sp*cs were ever made, the one that got whacked in sicily was purely muscle, and desjardins was a pretty big player but alot of his standing in the mafia came from who he married.

That's what Sal Vitale testified, i.e. there were 18-20 guys in Rizzuto's organization who were made members of the Bonanno family, including Vito and Nick Rizzuto.

Calling Joe Bravo purely muscle is absolutely ridiculous.

You are talking about Juan "Joe Bravo" Fernandez of course. This guy was more then muscle, was an asset to Vito, and a close trusted associate of his. He was also fiercely loyal and got things done from drug dealings, collections, and murder. Fernandez was a perfect guy to trust with an arraignment drug shipments from Latin countries and dealings from Toronto. I'm sure he was killed in Sicily on orders from Desjardins and the Calabrian faction in retaliation for Di Maulo's murder for the continuous control of Montreal.

A side note on Di Maulo and Desjardins, they were ungrateful, turncoat little shits and got what they deserve.

Ivy,


Do you remember the old Rizzuto crime family chart that I requested and Mukremin had made for me in 2011? It shows a lot more then 20 names. Actually, 62 names (Excluding Rizzuto's names)were on it, but how many were made members in the Rizzuto family? It has been awhile (since 2011), so how many are new associates and how many have left, do we know? I know 14 from that old chart have been killed. Who were the 20 made members of the Bonnano's?

Yes the 20 number is the made members of the Bonanno's. I have heard like others have said that Vitor anyon was making non-Italians and I believe it. He has proven time and time again he only plays by his own rules and could give a shit what NY thinks. If he only has 20 "made" (by his count not those like Vitale that has NO CLUE these days) men I'm not sitting here typing this.

This is the opposite from what I read around the time of the Bravo hit. It was opined that Vito ordered it as Bravo remained neutral during the war and didn't do enough to fight back for the Rizzuto faction.

Why was this Spanish guy in Sicily that's my question

He was meeting with sicilian mafia bosses regarding future business deals.

And what mike68 said is true.

Joe Bravo was deported from canada when he got outa jail so he had to go somewhere, and he was trying to set up a drug pipeline with the sicilians.

Not only Vitale. There are FBI documents from the 1960s that state there were 20 Bonanno made members in Montreal. Vito Rizzuto said to Sal Vitale in 2001 that there were 19, and that's because Sciascia was killed in 1999. Montagna might have inducted some new guys, otherwise there are now probably no more than a dozen left.

Desjardins doesn't have the pull to order someone to be killed in Sicily, by Sicilians. Only Rizzuto has. The so called 'Calabrian' faction (which was actually composed of mostly mainland Italians from multiple regions) is now in shatters.

Sonny. I'm curious to know why you believe Desjardins doesn't have that kind of pull to order hit in Sicily? I know I'm out of touch with the Rizzuto family news. It was Di Maulo, Desjardins, and Montagna that was killing off the Rizzuto family? Then Desjardins had the balls to kill Montagna. Why wouldn't he have Fernadez killed? Maybe then it was Rizzuto who ordered it for Fernandez being neutral when his family was being wiped out.

Yeah I think your just about right Caramella with that, except I'm pretty sure Sal tried to kill Desjardins first and fucked up, an then Desjardins got him in retaliation

Canada seems to be more about associates than made guys and it sounds like the number of associates is a pretty large number..

Also, I'm not disputing but where did you come up with the fact that Sal tried whacking Desjardins...?

I know Desjardins survived a hit attempt, not sure if related to this or not.

It was September of 2011, 2 months before they found Montagna in the river and someone made an attempt on this Desjardins guy while he was driving down the highway ala Joey Merlino, I personally think it was Sal Montagna's doing

Boy, Sal had a lot of balls thinking he was going to show up North of the border and end up running things....

Because Desjardins has other things to worry about; he's facing a serious prison sentence himself and can't afford ordering hits from his jail cell. Besides that he needs to fear for his own life after the failed coup and the return of Rizzuto. And I really don't believe that a French-Canadian is in a position to order Sicilian mafiosi to carry out hits for him in Sicily. The only people with that pull are the Sicilians in Montreal or Toronto.

Yep. I'm sure he thought Vito was still loyal to the Bonanno's and would follow orders. Before he knew it he was running out of his own window and jumping into a frozen river.

I too believe it was Vito that whacked Fernandez.

Then even if Desjardins gets through this murder trial he still has the fact Vito is licking his chops hoping Desjardins beats the case just so he can punish him for what he done while Vito was in prison. Bye bye Raynald.

I think Vito has proven beyond a shadow of a doubt,that he's a serious force to be reckoned with.

When it comes to Mobsters Vito is great he is old school and fucking powerful.

yeah i agree, they dont make mobsters like this guy anymore it seems. lately when a boss hits the matresses it turns into a god damn mess (Colombo civil war) but this guy comes back and just starts mopping up wiseguys like kids play. He is the undisputed boss of Canada right now. Capo di tutti capi del Canada

No doubt, no one here comes close to him.

Why did the USA settle everything with a 10-year sentence for 3 murders? Couldn't they have given at least 25?

Cause it wasnt an ironclad case, just the word of massino and vitale. No physical evidence. All rizzuto admited to when he pleaded guilty was that he was there but that he wasnt one of the shooters, but your right he got a good deal cause the govt didnt wanna risk letting him walk.

vito pretty bad ass but does a great mobster have a legacy of having his dad and son wack+ his brother in law and acouple other family members.

The question is had he not been locked up in Colorado would that happen? Highly doubt it.

That's why I don't like mobsters, even though am interested in them: if I were Vito, after my family was slaughtered, I would have been pretty much disgusted with the criminal life that brought me tragedy and would just retire after taking revenge. Revenge is understandable, but now Di Maulo and Montagna are dead and Desjardins is in jail, but Vito still goes on and on again. He really seems not to have got how filthy a professional criminal's life is. I was initially even sorry for him when all his friends and relatives were whacked while he couldn't do anything, being in prison. Now I just hope somebody whacks him as well.

So you want a criminal to be whacked for killing other criminals? That makes you no different than those criminals. Personally I don't have a problem with a criminal killing other criminals. It's their business, why would you care about it? It's not like Saddam Hussein ordering a chemical attack on innocent women and children.

He also sells drugs and extorts, as far as I know, and it's not like every single one he whacked 100% deserved death, not all criminals warrant a death sentence.

That is a highly subjective statement. All criminals potentially warrant a death sentence, because it's part of their business. It's the same as army soldiers, who are prepared to die in battle. If you don't want to risk your life in battle you do not become a soldier, plain and simple.

Yes, but still, they can have relatives who aren't criminals and are hurt by the loss of their family members. I don't really blame Vito Rizzuto for whacking Di Maulo since he initiated the whole massacre. But what about others? Just to make an example, what was the point of whacking Gaetan Gosselin? He was just an underling of Desjardins'. Even Desjardins himself can't take important decisions himself, not being Italian, so what exactly one of his underlings was guilty of in relation to the Rizzuto family massacre? Just to prove his point to Desjardins who is in prison? Don't know how Vito reasons, but I always thought "revenge" is directed at those who are 100% responsible for offenses towards you, killing people around them just to prove your point is crazy, even though I understand perfectly that crime bosses have always done that.

You are right on the other hand, maybe there is no point to care about this mess, but still I sometimes try to look at it from a point of view different from usual, just out of curiosity.

If you think Gosselin was a saint you got another thing coming.

He was involved in the game and has been for a very long time, he knew what he was in for when he entered the game.

I can understand a Mother or someone who is totally not involved like when that moron Gaspipe had Fat Pete Chiodo's Sister on the street in the middle of the day, now that is wrong.

But a guy like Gosselin who played the game not a chance you should feel bad about that.

I meant to say when Gaspipe had her shot.

I don't say he was a saint, it was just an example that I don't think everyone Vito had killed deserved to die in my opinion. It's not like they are good people, it's Vito who is a scumbag.

Your missing the point here bro they are all the same, Gosselin is no better a person then Rizzuto and vice versa.

You speak as if you know all the details while you, just like the rest of us, only know 10%. You don't know Gosselin's history nor do you know Rizzuto's motives. In fact, we do not even know if Rizzuto was behind it in the first place.

That's right, but this doesn't change the fact that our points of view are slightly different: you said you have no problems when criminals kill other criminals. I personally don't care about the criminal victims, but if they are killed in a gang war by people who are no better the them, I still think these crimes should be punished, because in my opinion the perpetrators simply don't care much whether their victims are "in the game" or not. If it's necessary for business, they would have no problems of killing innocents in my opinion. In Italy we have seen it countless times, why would Canada be different?
On the other hand, if for example a mafioso was killed by some desperate ruined businessman whose family was killed by the mafia, now that's one murder I would have absolutely no problems with. I wouldn't even testify in court against this perpetrator.

Anyway, I respect you point of view, it's not like I am pretending to know all the story, but making assumptions is no crime.

I agree that Desjardins probably doesn't act on his own, but theoretically it's not like Italian organized crime is above accepting contracts from non-made people if they pay well. For example, the 'ndrangheta boss Santo Asciutto organized a hit in 1991 for some dentist who wanted to kill his wife. Money owns them all.

I have to agree with frankg2469...Rizzuto has proven himself to be the last of the old school breed...

He's Canadian so insecure Americans will make excuses for his obvious prowess in areas where american bosses have failed. I have no idea why anyone would be sensitive on such a subject, but hey, it is what it is.

"10 years for murder 1" is total bullshit.

There is a MANDATORY sentence of LIFE without possibility of parole for a MINIMUM of 25 years for 1st degree murder. I have no idea where anyone gets the idea that Canada is somehow soft on crime. Of course luck factors into any success criminals career, and its not like Vito hasn't done some time.

I dont think that a guy like Vito could ever retire . If he does , he will lose most of his power and become a target himself . You always have to watch your back in that life , its way better to be a wolf than a sheep .