Natural Outfit Evolution

The Status of the Outfit and the disappointment by some in how this once very mighty Organization has diminished over the last 25 years has caused many discussions and arguments.

What's really happening in Chicago is twofold.

The Northern Part of the Outfit which consists of Elmwood Park and Grand Ave have been going through a natural evolution started by John DiFronzo and Joe Lombardo several years ago.
They voluntarily retreated from the street rackets that have been common in Chicago for decades all the way back to Mr. Outfit himself, Al Capone. The Northern Group led by John DiFronzo, concentrates all their efforts on legitimate business and union activity. Everything with them is White Collar. When they die, their relatives will continue the trend but they will not be made members of the Outfit nor will they need to be made members of the Outfit.
All the Political connections have been laid down and have been in place for decades. The relatives of these guys both (male & female) will continue with legitimate business and union activity and be really no different than smart wealthy so called legitimate business people. It is a natural evolution from crime to legitimacy.

The Southern Group, which consists of Cicero and 26th St, are still operating the traditional street rackets and are really not part of this White collar evolution.
These guys want it to be 1973 all over again. They want to run Bookmaking, Loan Skarking, Poker Machines, along with some Union activity and some legitimate business.

In Conclusion, the question will arise continually:
How strong is the Outfit in 2013? Is it a powerhouse like years ago?

Answer: No, it is not even close. The Outfit has truly been divided by two different philosophies.

However, for the select relatives of the Northern Group who will benefit from the legitimate interests and the political and union connections, it could be better than ever in the future and they do not have to be made members of the Outfit because it will be unnecessary.

Over kill!

I'd take it a step further..There is no "The Outfit" anymore but TWO Outfits. .The "Mafia" is the South Side group..The North Side really just like made connection guys...

On the contrary I find this the most succinct and logical explanation of the current state of the Outfit I have seen pretty much anywhere.

Its not overkill, its happening in detroit, feds don't know who's made and who's not, in the future family members of mobsters won't have to get thier finger pricked to be made, they will be born into it. U can extort and tax people legally and make way more money without taking a risk of getting locked up, ie (bank fees)

Its also being done with the buffalo mob, pay attention

Maybe with 'over kill' he meant the number of Outfit threads that have been made lately..

It's like I always say, there is nothing to talk about.

I have Google news feeds for "Chicago Outfit," "mob," "mafia" "Difronzo" etc.

I don't think there's been even a minor Outfit news story from a major source since the Rudy Fratto sentencing almost a year ago. Aside from Calabrese Sr. dying.

I have a question for you, Chicago. Have you ever read any articles or books that mention the Outfit members associating with gang leaders?

Or the number of threads that essentially say the exact same thing?

another chicago thread? thats weird

Sorry for any redundancy, but I had a few personal messages when I was doing time for 1 week and I responded to them with this thread.

I enjoy reading your thoughts on Chicago, but it's really becoming one big cluster fuck. Maybe the mods could bundel your posts together in a central Outfit thread, and make it sticky.

Okay, whatever.... or maybe I won't post anything at all anymore and you can have fanboys talk about Chicago in 2013 like it is still 1977. No problem.

I like that phrase "cluster fuck". I should start saying it again.

No need to act offended as that wasn't intended on my part in the first place. I was just saying that all the different Chicago threads (whether created by you or someone else) are becoming one big cluster fuck when it is much better to have one centralized thread. You could even consider it a compliment that I suggested to have your thread/posts being made sticky, but if you want to feel offended and threaten to stop posting, I would not loose sleep over it.

Probably because I don't know what a sticky is! LOL.

Smoke a spliff or have one scotch and belive me you wont bother with anything Relaxxxxx.....feel the positive energy

Carmela explained to me what is a 'Sticky'.
Okay, I understand and I actually take it as a compliment. That's probably a good idea.

I can't help it if there is an obsession with the Outfit. Like I said, I was just addressing some personal messages when I was doing time for 1 week and thought it was easier to address with one thread, Kinda like killing two guys with one shot. LOL.

chicago i like your posts and have told you so its just the so many threads

i was on vacation for a week as well

well, the great thing about this site is there are plenty of other fucking threads to comment on and read if you're tired of the Chicago ones that many of us enjoy..

Best time of the year to take a vacation is now. Where did you go?

He means he got a week suspension from the board lol

I love the Chicago talk, primary reason I'm here, all I'm saying is the constant bickering over this very topic takes away from the enjoyment of the threads..no?

Who is bickering here? We all know that da Outfit got da superfans like Da Bearsssss lol we just have to ignore them and enjoy the site

Super Bowl Super Bears. Bears/Broncos.

Speaking of vacations, what happened to Elmwood Parker? He was another good contributor.

Da Bears...lol. Made me think of that skit they used to do on SNL.

...:) Johnny DiFronzo and the Almighty Grand Avenue Crew vs Ditka and God in a steel cage match refereed by ElmwoodParker lol..:)

Yes another expert on the outfit lol, i see him on here sometimes, mostly really early in the morning but he never posts anything

I imagine he and Mr. Chicago could have some interesting conversations. If I recall he had a made cousin and was related to Joseph Lombardi or somebody like that.

Why would the calabrese people/difronzos be interesting or relevant to the modern Outfit? Snitches & legit guys? Inendino, delaurentis, the Carusos, Aldo, albie & his people, etc etc are the ones to pay attention to.

I agree. Plus this forum contains no small amount of threads like "Mob Vs. KKK."

If the threads aren't popular they go away.

The Outfit is a popular subject, and always will be!

Exactly what made guys does Albie have with him?
He is not a Boss like Toots Caruso or Jimmy Inendino.
Albie is a made guy who answers to Elmwood Park.
He is not a Boss.
Anyone under him are Soldier/Associates.

Smoke a spliff or have one scotch and belive me you wont bother with anything Relaxxxxx.....feel the positive energy [/quote]
I want the shit your smoking todo, might be better than the stuff i got lol.



Chicago quick quick question for ya. I hear you about difronzos and the northsides retreatment. I was just wondering does difronzo still hold the official title of boss? Is he recognized on the street as the boss over anything? Just wondering. Thanks.

Faithful1, I believe elmwood parker got banned but Dellacroce said he saw him appear on here? Anyway, we would agree on the old Outfit probably 100%.
We would disagree on the Modern Outfit. His Uncle is Joey Lombardi who is a retired Soldier/Associate. He belonged to Elmwood Park and used to work under Willie Messino.

They ended up hating each other and Willie blackballed him with Jack and Johnny from ever getting made.

He argued a lot with Ivy and he disrespected New York for really no reason. He kept bring up Donnie Brasco, like that movie represented everybody in New York back in 1980. LOL.

He did make some excellent postings about the Older Outfit and understood it well when he wasn't argueing or disrespecting New York.

Ya i actually saw him on here this morning around 5am et and few other times recently, but like i said he never posts anything. Not sure what his deal is?

Do we have to make a seperate threads for new york and philly also?

Elmwoodparker/the don started a thread on Sunday or Monday...very late. It was quickly deleted.

If Elmwood Park is out of the street rackets, then who is running the books, shylock, pokers machines etc on the northside? Is Cicero running all the street rackets across Chicagoland, even on the northside? If so, are they kicking anything up to Elmwood?

I don't know the answer to your question but I will say one thing about the north side of Chicago.

Demographically it might look similar to how it used to--mostly white. However, a lot of those neighborhoods, particularly along the lake, used to really be middle class family neighborhoods, and that is not nearly as much the case anymore. There are still a fair amount of families in those areas but hell, a house in Andersonville, Ravenswood or Lincoln Square is gonna run you a huge amount of money these days, so these neighborhoods tend to be filled with a lot of wealthy people or transplant renters. In either case they aren't really the kind of people who are gonna be taking out a juice loan.

The northwest side aka the Bungalow Belt is probably still more conducive to that kind of thing, but even in its heyday you don't hear a ton of mob stories from way up there.

Not that he is a particularly reliable source of information, but in his last interview Harry Aleman (I'm paraphrasing) said "It's over. Who's taking bets? If anyone maybe a few old Jews on the north side."

Like I said, obviously he is not a paragon of honesty, but I still find the comment interesting.

The Southern Group is trying to cover all their territory let alone the North Side.
The Chicagoland territory is huge.
The Southern Group has very little happening on the North side.
There is some bookmaking and Poker machines in Melrose Park which was traditionally covered by the Cicero crew who is the Dominant. Their partner is the 26th St Crew.

The Northern Group receives nothing from the Southern Group.
DiFronzo does not want to go to jail over Poker machines. That was the deal. The Southern Group led by Cicero can do whatever they please with the street Rackets.
They have to worry about the South Side before they can think about the North Side with any further expansion.

Cicero is lacking some of the Political Clout of DiFronzo.

Sounds like they need more made men and soldiers if they can't even cover the southside. That's alot of money they're leaving on the table.

As for who is making bets anymore, you would be surprised. Men love sports and they love to bet on sports. All the guys I grew up with bet on sports. Many of them still do, whether they became doctors, engineers, or criminals. I know some of them went to the online books, but the fed has been cracking down on those the last few years and seizing the domain names. Besides, try having tens of thousands of dollars wired to you from overseas. The IRS and Homeland Security will be all over your ass.

Yeah, I imagine a lot of big bettors wouldn't feel comfortable depositing a bunch of money on some online gambling website account, but would prefer the face-to-face collections/payouts the mob provides.

Yes, It's a lot of money they're leaving on the table, but with it comes jail sentences based on the RICO LAW and attorney's fees.
So, when you add that into the equation, how much money is really being left on the table versus making money in legitimate business and using the Outfit's connections to do it with no jail time and no attorney's fees and no additional stress on your wife and family.

I want the shit your smoking todo, might be better than the stuff i got lol. [/quote]

Ill send you some,but beware,its an earthquake

Ill send you some,but beware,its an earthquake [/quote]

Glue fumes?

I think something that gets lost on these boards is how much easier it was to break the law years ago. Pre wire tapping, pre video surveilance, pre RICO, pre cell phone and computer trails... hell Hoover didn't even admit organized crime existed for a long time.

Long story short we all remember when we were kids and you could take advantage of people's niavity.

Once society isn't naive, it becomes a different ballgame. Getting away with stuff is probably thousands of times harder today than it was even back in the 60s.

Absolutely 100% TRUE. Everbody's got fucking Cameras on everthing. They probably have a camera inside a bathroom stall watching a guy jerking off looking at pictures of Outfit Guys. LOL.

Glue fumes? [/quote] If you need it to glue your wig,than its ok

Both of you should take it to pms, or at least make your little feud interesting

Dellacroce, Answering your question.
DiFronzo is viewed upon as a living legend who retired from the street rackets. He is still a Boss, but not an active Boss of anything with the street rackets.

It would be the way I would view Paul McCartney. He will always be a Beatle, he could step in and try to do the Beatles thing again with Ringo and John Lennon's kid and George Harrison's kid, but he WILL NEVER DO IT.

That is the way DiFronzo is viewed in the Mafia World.

O ok thanks that answers my question perfectly

Outright false. Albie runs what is left on Grand Ave and Christy Spina and his brothers answer to him, all of which are made.

Did Rocco Lombardo tell you otherwise?

When i said over kill im only talking about the numbers of threads.I enjoy read them but (Chicago)have explain this in many threads did not mean to Offend Chicago or anyone else.

Well, if we make it more interesting both of us will be banned. Is it worth it? No it´s not.

I guess me and Toddo are both two stubborn guys. We have it in our blood. From my part, and from now on, I promise I will forgive and forget, even ask him for forgiveness for any transgressions from my part and let things move on. However, I will try to correct him when I know he´s posting erroneous info. So that will not change. If Toddo is cool with that, so am I.

Okay ChiTown from ANP,
Name the made guys in the Grand Ave Crew. Seriously, name them. Everybody on the threads talks about guys and throws names around on this Forum everyday and twice on Sunday.
Do not tell me you are afraid to name someone because that's bullshit. If they're made, the Feds already know anyways.

Name the made guys and I'll make a special point to check it out and if you're right, I'll admit it. No problem. Fair enough?
That's what I mean when I say put up or shut up.
Name the fucking guys right now that you say you think are MADE
1) Albie Vena
2) Cris Spina

Who Else??

You guys need to take it easy, we already know everything there is to know about chicago.

Chitown you're a douche.

Go troll elsewhere because the adults are getting tired.

Hey Sonny, Seriously, if the Grand Ave Crew is really a small but full functioning Crew with Albie Vena as the Boss, made men, and soldiers working under them, I'd like to know and I'll check it out and be the first one to admit it.

That's what I mean when I say to ChiTown, put up or shut up.
I know it sounds rough but I'll be the first guy to admit I was wrong and there really is more to it than I thought or was led to believe. At least I'm open minded in that way.

Well Chicago youre now under instructions to only respond to the trolls IF they put up....

(dont be breath holding....)

The city Chicago i hear it is a wonderful place ,Then why do the people that post about it have that little man complex...?

Some of the people who post about it are fanboys and want to root for their home team like it's a football game. You'll find some of that in every city that has a Mob family.
However, for some reason it's more prevalent in Chicago. Probably because The Outfit had such a huge reputation and is now only a mere shadow of itself. It's difficult for some of the home team fans to accept. That is the best and most logical answer to your sarcastic question.

Thankyou i would see it here and there ,But now they r acting like they were part of it when it fell apart ,wWhat a joke put your heads down walk away at least u still can....

Correct. I'm probably the most accurate and realistic poster about the Outfit that has ever been on this Forum.
I've seen it from both sides.
When I was young I was a Fan and thought it was great. It was like my family was part of some kind of royalty.
Then, in early 1985, someone very dear to me who was part of that royalty got shot in the fucking face and was killed for no reason accept revenge because he was loyal to someone. He was no threat to anybody in 1985. That's when I was on the other side as a victim looking at the ugliness of it.

+1000...I'm no fanboy but gotta tell ya I admire the DiFronzos, Andriacchi, and D'Amico for walking away when they could-I really do. Back in the 90's with all that happened in his life, Johnny realized he was alone on top and thus was a lightning rod for the G and he said "FUCK THIS!!!" and he took his top guys with him. He didn't wanna die in jail and he knew that the days of The Outfit as he knew them were pretty much over. There was no one around to tell him otherwise as all the old guard was dead or in jail. Maybe it was an honorable existence in Sicily or Naples 200 years ago and maybe it was honorable when Italians first came to this country and TOOK our piece of the American pie when it was denied to us, but now??? They're all just glorified street gangs who use the bullshit Godfather credo to further a mystique that has loooooooong since ended..

It is all bullshit ,this life is not for the regular guy,Thats why it is 1% thing .Go ahead put you face in it and see what will happen ,If u r playing with punks u wiil b ok ,If you put your head in with the big boys and there is not many out there but if u do they will read u in a second..So you better off a fanboy

Best. Fucking. Quote. In. This. Forum. Period.

Thank you Sonny I appreciate that....Sepiente, it's easy to be a fucking fanboy until it touches your family. I have a relative who "disappeared" and likely was brutally murdered. I have another relative who spent years on the lam and then when to prison. No I am NOT excusing their culpability in the ways in which they CHOSE to live their lives. They knew the stakes when they CHOSE to involve themselves with such people. There is an old saying here that all the Chicago posters know well, "once you get into bed with the Outfit, the only way out is feet first.." I HAVE KNOWN MANY OF THE NAMES MENTIONED ON THIS BOARD. I can't help where I grew up or to whom I am related. I just don't see the glory in that or why anyone should be impressed with it..

12th. Thats an easy one.

Those that dont know, admire. Those that do, dont.

Thats it.

12th we are saying the same thing but in diff words..and if it hurts so bad why do u keep reliving it....

Serpiente, It HAS hurt sure..Have come to terms with it though and it's not about reliving it but commenting on it from a different perspective at a point in my life where I'm in my early 40's and secure where I am in my life and grateful that I didn't walk a path that I easily could have walked. Twenty years ago I was a fanboy too lol..But you live and you learn..

By the way Serpiente, when I speak of "fanboys" I was not referring to you. If anything I wholeheartedly agree with your response to my 1st post today on this thread

These things hurt because a family member was killed. Sure The Outfit killed lots of people and left widows and children to fend for themselves. These are the actions of a criminal organization. They extort, kill, intimidate, etc.

Unfortunately from time- to-time these things "hit close to home." No matter what someone's father has done, he is still loved by his family. Many of these guys were very good fathers and providers. Can their actions be justified? No, but their family is not responsible for the action of their father. I'm sure many wives and children have tried to talk their husband into getting out of "the life." In some cases family members may not have known the the full extent of their husband or father's involvement in illegal activities.

My point is this: it hurts when a father is killed regardless of his lifestyle. His children love him and his wife loves him........no matter what.

People generally respond two ways as a result of the loss of a loved one; they either talk about it or they say very little. Talking affords the individual a measure of therapeutic release and as such helps "get it out;" Very similar to a divorce.

A little compassion goes a long way.

yea i could tell ,all good