Gigante/Salerno in Chicago after Castellano hit?

Listening to the ANP "podcast", Mike Magnafichi mentioned Vincent Gigante and Tony Salerno came to Chicago after the Castellano murder to talk to the Outfit bosses. MM said Aiuppa couldn't meet them, so Cerone met with them.

Had anyone heard this before? Hadn't heard this mentioned by posters or seen any FBI mention of it before.

Pretty interesting.

BTW, the podcasts are pretty good. MM offers up some pretty interesting stories about Carlisi, Accardo, Cerone and some other dead gangsters.

Salerno was under indictment at the time so he wouldnt go, gigante no way either plus Auippa and Cerone themselves were inu the middle of a trial 2 months away from prison as well.if anything represenatives from both families maybe qould of met.

fantasy

Yep^

^lol. Yeah, Mike is just pulling this shit out of his ass. Right, gotchya....

Sounds like bull. Except to go to court, prison and the psychiatric hospital, it's doubtful that Gigante left Manhattan for the last 20 years of his life. I believe he was even caught on tape once complaining that he regretted the "crazy act" because he couldn't go anywhere or do anything.

Those guys had so much heat on them in the time after the Castellano hit the they would have had to gotten teleported from New York to Chicago to keep the feds from noticing.

I think it very well could have happened...At that time in 85 The Outfit was not only relevant and powerful, it was allied with the Genovese Family. It's been established that back then that each Family valued the other's friendship TREMENDOUSLY and each had a leg up nationally with the other as an ally..I can understand why all those old timers got bent out of shape with Gotti knocking down Castellano and I can see the Genoveses talking to the Outfit about what to do with Gotti because of it. Did they come to Chicago for permission to knock down Gotti?? LOL that's ridiculous but I do see the Genoveses talking to Chicago out of respect and because of the Outfit's seat on The Commission. I think they already knew that guys like Aiuppa and Cerone would be on the same page as Gigante and Salerno

Im sure word did get sent to them as to what happened because like all they were curious, but if that did happen the word would of been, we don't know who did it. The Genovese weren't going to tell anyone they knew it was Gotti and that they were going after him. Like with Gigante only leaving Manhattan for doctors visits, prison, the only time Aiuppa and Cerone left their houses were to go to the courthouse for their trial. So much heat was on both sides at the time I don't see Salerno leaving East Harlem much less going with the Chin himself to a different state. and Aiuppa being the type of person he was, especially in the middle of a trial probably could of given two shits about Castellano or who did it.

I don't see both going to chicago, chin was super careful, I see him sending a messenger, maybe his son

Fantasy land for sure, all these guys had their own problems and traveling across several states and meeting was waaay to ambitious and dangerous to say the least.

Magnafichi really hurts his credibility with that one.

http://articles.philly.com/1997-07-03/news/25545879_1_mob-boss-philadelphia-mob-vincent-chin-gigante


It is conceivable that the chin or someone of his choosing did have contacts with chicago (read above artical about how the chin handled the philly thing) before a decision is made to take out a boss u need permission from the commission to do so, even though the commission don't officially meet "publicly" that we know of, they still communicate with one another and the chin was a stickler for the rules, with that being said I can see how it can be possible that the chin reached out to chicago to let them know its gonna be trouble in the volcano, and reaching out to chicago again about the "gotti hit"

As others have said above, communication with Chicago after the Castellano hit is one thing. Fat Tony and Chin actually going out to Chicago themselves? No way.

Its possible ivy, the chin was sneaking to see his girlfriend before they caught him, u can't see him sneaking to chicago once?

No, it was virtually impossible. Chin going back and forth between New York and New Jersey to see his wife and girlfriend is one thing. Going all the way out to Chicago for a high-level meet with Outfit leaders is another. It never happened. You can bet on that.

They did have a meet. But it was an internet conference. Chin used the basement of his mother´s house stacked with computers and the Chicago guys used a secret room beneath the Wrigley field. Gosh...I´m starting to sound like DickNose. Please shoot me!

the cop mike Russell who did the hbo doc when he took down the nj Genovese crew just wrote a book and 20yrs later he's saying chin and benny eggs would take the train over to Hoboken to meet bobby manna cause he had the whole police department in his hand and the feds were all over the village. I guess I believe it chin was sneaky. don't believe he went to Chicago maybe sent a capo. to tell them he's looking into the matter as a boss was killed no commission vote. yaeh he had guys in vegas and we know Chicago always had vegas. the families probably meet there not chin capo's. they were in contact with philly aand new England so yaeh.

Who did the chin have in las vegas?

They had no reason to go to Chicago when they could have just sent a messenger. The hit had nothing to do with Chicago, so what would be the urgency to have such a risky high level meeting?

Why would Magnifichi lie about something like that?

Why not. He must really be in a jam to degrade himself like that. Foscos a peice letting his "friend" destroy himself for a couple extra viewers.

Chicago is a one day drive from NYC. A train is even faster. It is not inconceivable, although the truth of the story is doubtful.

Filippo "Springfield Sam" Manarite was active in Vegas in the 1970s, 80s, and 90s.

Gigante never went to Chicago in 1985. LOL.
Two other men, (Don't know their Names) went to Chicago during Xmas Time in 1985. Obviously, have no idea what was discussed, only know two Genovese man came out here briefly at the end of 1985 after Castellano was killed.

Mooch Eboli helped coordinate it and was their driver in Chicago.

Rumours are that John "Peanuts" Tronolone was a constant messenger between NY and Chicago.Is that true?

Hi Toodoped, I am not sure. I only know from the Chicago side that Mooch Eboli would help Auippa/Cerone in these situations.

I would also doubt those two bosses went to Chicago, but would also doubt Mike would make this story up out of the blue and especially tie it to NYC like that. I would think high level Capo's, Salerno and/or one of Chin's sons make more sense.

Mags may embellish, but he has higher credibility than anyone on an anonymous internet forum like this one.

Also in terms of current connection, Pudge Matassa is married to the sister of Danny Pagano, who I believe is a made member of the Genovese crime family.

Wassup man....I also think that no way top bosses of the Genovese and Chicago would ever met,not under that kind of "heat" in thouse days.But i did a little research and i found an article about other meetings like an argument between the Chi mob and NY,about Jackie Presser,the union president,wich he stated that guys from Chicago came down to NY to tell Salerno that Presser was an FBI informant and even that he might be killed.After that,public F.B.I. files came out that Presser was a informer since 1977.Presser grew up in Cleveland also where Tronolone was comming from.This was happening somewhere around 1984.Here's the article...

http://www.nytimes.com/1989/03/27/us/jac...=all&src=pm

Also another article with an wiretap between Salerno and Tronolone(wich he was talking on the behalf of the Chicago outfit)about a problem in Vegas,also somewhere around 1984/85.

http://www.newsnet1.com/electricnevada.com/pages96/wynn.htm

My point is that(just guessing)maybe the two guys in the first article were Tronolone,wich the Cleveland mob was well connected with both organizations,meaning the Genoveses and The Outfit,and the other guy maybe was Mooch Eboli?

I thinks mags would lie just to fuck with fosco and cocanante they kinda treat him like his an ass-hole.

Embellishing would be if Fat Tony and Chin actually did show up and Magnafichi said he sat down with them himself or something like that. What he's doing, for whatever reason, is just plain lying. It would be more understandable if he said he was told secondhand that they came to town. But he's saying he actually saw them there with his own two eyes. C'mon. As someone else said, Fat Tony was under indictment. And Chin didn't even like attending Commission meetings in New York, much less going way out to Chicago to discuss something that had little to do with the Outfit.

Some on here may find you more credible on the activities of the Chicago Outfit in the 1980s than Michael Magnafichi, but I would assume that number is very small.

Mike isn't even in the game anymore and now works in the field of internet journalism. He has no reason at all to embellish the truth...

Mikey Mags is lying like a mf, and I think he did it out of spite just so those guys look like ass-holes, I argee with Chicago I don't even know why he would publicly associate with either one of them. Cocanute treats him like a jerk-off and Fosco just hops on any dick to ride if they bash Difronzo&Co.

And why exactly should anyone believe you? I find it funny that all of us are discussing a guy's credibility as if we have any of our own to speak of. You don't know any of these guys, nor have you ever been close to the people they have been close to.

Reality check.

This isn't about me or my credibility. It's about simple common sense. And the fact that you won't even admit it, but keep dancing around the subject, shows the agenda I've always accused you of having; from the old days on the RD forum until now.

You can't really attack a person's credibility without first establishing your own. And for "common sense" to be "common" it must be shared by a majority of people. If you think a majority would believe an anonymous internet poster like yourself over someone the FBI noted was a former solider and son of a former CAPO Michael Magnafichi in regards to the Chicago Outfit in the 1980s, then not sure you can use the term "common sense."

It seems a majority of people on this forum think Magnafichi's claim is completely ludicrous. Even you admitted that it's not true, but despite that, you still feel you have to defend the honor of anyone connected with your hometown crime family.

Saying Gigante and Salerno visited Chicago is a lie, stop acting like a dumb ass. He destroyed his credibility by saying that. On top of all this I think he did it to fuck with Fosco and Cocanute for badgering him on the subject.

So you guys really think a majority of this forum believes two anonymous internet posters over a former solider in the Chicago Outfit when it comes to...the Chicago Outfit lol?

Look at the responses so far, Fratto. The claim is so unbelievable that it's shocking Magnafichi would even say it. You know, just like the rest of us, that he's bullshitting. Just admit it, quit being so defensive of the honor of the Outfit, and move on.

Just like most disagreements with you, they end with YOU telling ME what I'm REALLY thinking .

That's it SC my ex wife is really on this forum stalking me from thread to thread trying to torture me. I should talk to my lawyer.

You really do live in your own little world, don't you? I was on this forum long before you. You only came over here after you were banned from the RD forum for much of the same crap you're doing here now. Same Fraudo, different day/board.

I would lay off the personal attacks if I were you. You know the rules and shouldn't get this upset over people taking the side of a known longtime Outfit soldier/associate over an anonymous internet forum poster with a photo of Michael Shannon as their moniker .

Wiseguy/IvyLeague you should probably disclose that you were also banned from RD for picking too many fights with people, as it seems you are doing now.

I got news for ya buddy--I ain't goin down with ya so leave me alone and move on. I do not want to get banned.

ChiTown, Relax a little bit.

1) Mike Mags is not a bad guy but he should not be associating himself with Fosco.
2) Fosco is a Con Man.
3) Mike Mags has been arrested 4 times for shop lifting and has other addiction issues.
4) You have to question people with those kind of issues.
5) Elmwood Park people hate Mike Mags.
6) Mike Mags was shelved a long time ago when Elmwood park retreated.
7) Gigante never went to Chicago.
8) It was 2 OTHER Genovese men who were driven around by Mooch.
9) In Mike Mags Defense,maybe he remembers there were two guys but is wrong about Gigante being one of them because he simply doesn't remember.
10) Stop equating your entire self worth as a person with how big the Outfit is today, because you'll never win that argument. Relax about it.

Like I said on an earlier thread, Mags was shelved not because Elmwood Park retreated, but because he wasn't good with his money (or more importantly, Joey A's money).

Also, who told you this story about Mooch driving these Genovese soldiers around? I believe your father was already dead at the reason I'm starting to raise my eyebrows is because anyone who knew Mooch (including Michael Mags who was Mooch's relative through marriage) knew that Louie first got sick in early 1986 and immediately retreated from his daily routine to start going to Mayo Clinic on a regular basis. Not sure someone with pancreatic cancer who spent the last 2 months of his life in bed was really up and about and driving around two Genovese mobsters ion the timeframe this meeting took place.

Mike Mags was shelved because Elmwood Park retreated and you're right, he did have a money problem with Joey A.

The Chicago visit by two Genovese men happened at the end of '85 before Mooch went to Mayo.

I was told he helped in the arrangements and always did because Auippa loved him and he had blood relations with Genovese Family.

Gigante and Salerno did not come to Chicago. It was two other Genovese made men.

I will not argue with you about it or about who retreated several years ago.
I didn't stop associating with people after February 13, 1985.

You also have a very hostile tone about you which is not very polite, like asking me to post pictures of my father on this Blog. My wife and I took that as an insult.

Mike mags doesn't hate the Outfit. Believe me When I tell you that he wishes he was still employed by them. He may have some ill will towards the DiFronzos, but to be fair, most soldier level Outfit guys hate the difronzo family. But he has no reason to make anyone look stupid, and hasn't done so thus far. Not sure how you came away with such a conclusion.

I see you were referring to fosco & Frank coca regarding making them look stupid. I doubt that was it either, as fosco had no idea who either men were & Frank didn't seem too interested in who they were either. It really was an odd claim.

I NEVER SAID HE HATED THE OUTFIT. I said he hates the DiFronzo's and they hate him. Be accurate if you're going to quote me.
Stop calling him a soldier. He is a made guy. In Chicago, Guys that work UNDER made guys in their franchises are referred to as soldiers.

Hostile tone? lol I'm a bunny rabbit...you seem to get really irked when people question what you write as fact. Big Paul was whacked on December 15, 1985--10 days before Xmas and NYE. If you actually read into the hit and the events that unfolded and how the Genovese even found out about Gotti orchestrating the hit in the first place, that means you are claiming two made (I'm assuming Catholic) men managed to visit Chicago in a week over Christmas holidays to get permission to hit Gotti. Then the Genovese waited four months to even make a move--in which they killed Frank DeCicco instead.

Also, I had no idea your wife was reading these threads too. Do you post together? Sincere apologies, but people often offend me when they make claims they cannot back up.

If your father is who he said he was then he grew up on Lexington St. on the West Side...why not give me his address and if it is indeed on the same block as someone I knew very well, I will believe you once and for all. (But will not stop correcting you when you are wrong, especially about my neighborhood, Grand Avenue).

What are talking about? Who said the two Genovese men needed permission from Chicago to retaliate against Gotti?
They didn't need permission from Chicago to do anything.
They were sent out to Chicago right after the hit on Castellano. WHO KNOWS WHAT WAS DISCUSSED. The point is that the two men were not Gigante and Salerno. That's it. Nothing more and nothing less.
They were in and out of Chicago very quickly.

You have misunderstood about Grand Ave. I'm not saying there is nothing there at all. I'm saying there is no Full functioning Crew based out of that area.
Albie Vena is a made guy but he is NOT A BOSS like Caruso or Inendino with several made guys under him who have Soldier/associates working for them.

@Chicago that was directed at Andy Garcia, not you.

ChiTown, I'll confirm the address of where he grew up and also in River Forest where I grew up when you post pictures of your family and the address of where you grew up on this Blog.

My wife doesn't post anything. She just reads some of it and is amused by a few of the people on here.

Go ahead and IM it to me if you don't want to post it publicly. Or perhaps tell me who your father's famous neighbor on Lexington was.

Remember, you claimed to talk with the Lombardos and when I asked you who Nucci was (Lombardo's older brother/patriarch and someone Rocco idolized and cared for in Vegas for a short period of time), you refused to answer.

So who was your father's neighbor on Lexington?

I didn't refuse to answer. I simply did not answer because Nucci (real name Andrew) or any other siblings have nothing to do with the fact that Grand Ave retreated with Elmwood Park years ago.
Rocky is a 5th degree Black Belt. His place was in River Grove. So what?

My father was born November 7, 1914. he had a sister named Grace, Carlo Urbinanti's wife. 5th Jack Club on 3340 West Jackson Boulevard sound familiar to you?

1131 North Lathrop, River Forest, old residence.

You need to provide your address, name and who you supposedly know to prove your credibility before you get anything else from me.

Now, name all the made guys in the Grand Avenue Crew. Put up or shut up. If you're correct, and Grand ave is still a small but functioning Crew, I'll be the first one to admit it. I'll specifically check it out.
Fair enough? Here, I'll start the list
1) Albie Vena
2) Chris Spina

Who else?? Only made guys, not associates.

Also, You DENIED being ChiTown on Fosco's Blog.
However, When elmwoodparker first came on here a few months ago, you welcomed him and identified yourself as being Chitown from ANP and told him not to pay attention to Ivy.

elmwoodparker was the Don on ANP, and you were ChiTown on ANP.


You need to give your address, post pictures of your family, and prove that Grand Ave is a full functioning Crew and that Albie Vena is a Boss with Made men, running Franchises with Soldier/Associates working under them.

Prove it.

Chicago, how come you know so much about elmwoodparker?

I read his postings. He seemed knowledgable about the old Outfit, but not on the modern Outfit. Also, I know him.

Everyone knew elmwoodparker was The Don on anp. He was open about it. He's Joe lombardi's nephew.

Someone is not being honest here.

Do you know something about someone's IP address? Lol

.....uh oh.....lol

My initial suspicions were correct, or so it seems.....?

What initial suspicions? I know elmwoodparker. I explained it to SC. He learned a lot from me and his uncle on my wife's side of the family, Lombardi.

He and Chitown were on ANP together even though ChiTown acted like he didn't know what I was talking about. What else do you want to know?

Since when have you ever laid off personal attacks? That's all you do. And it's why you were banned from ANOTHER forum. And why do you keep making this stupid argument about Magnafichi? Even you don't believe his claim about Fat Tony and Chin coming to Chicago. You're so obsessed with protecting the honor of anyone connected with the Outfit, you'll even contradict yourself!



I got suspended for a week because of debates I got in with other people. I got banned because I complained about the suspension on another forum, ANOTHER FORUM'S moderator didn't like it, and decided to just ban me for good.

And don't fool yourself. I don't care enough about you to work to see you "go down." I just get sick of your lies and BS.

" I don't care enough about you to work and see you go down." What are you implying here Ivy?

Guys, this crap is really getting tired. You have to stop the finger pointing and the pissing contests. You're on short leashes now, so if you're planning on staying around here, stop the crap!

How on earth has ivy league not gotten banned? What exactly does he contribute to this forum? He just copies & pastes regurgitated information & picks unwarranted fights. Seriously, not bashing, I'd actually like an explanation from the mod(s).

Not bashing? That´s exactly what you do. This is an open forum and Ivy brings a lot to the table. Posters like you, and others who feel threatened by his info for obviuos reasons, are constantly picking fights with him. Not the other way around.

I agree with Hairy Knuckles 100%. Ivy has great information that also coincides with a lot of street information.

Frankly, I fail to see what the big fucking deal is with Huron and ChiTown, especially ChiTown more than Huron.

On the other Forum, ChiTown said a few months ago that the Outfit was divided into two sections, North and South.
Ivy and I Agree.

Chitown said Grand Ave was the smallest of the 4 crews and was subservient to Elmwood Park for some muscle if needed.

Ivy and I agree.

So, what's the problem?

Vena and Spina are made , but not Spina's brothers. Chicago doesn't make a lot of people. Never did.

ChiTown posted under the name Grand Ave 420 on the other Forum and he was actually pretty good at what he said. He exaggerated a little but not terrible. Now, all of a sudden, he comes on here and is all fucking upset because Grand Ave is not like the Taylor St. Crew 50 years ago.

I don't see what the problem is at all? I asked him to name any more made guys that he thinks are with Grand Ave and I said I would check it out and give an honest opinion.

Haven't heard a word. All he wants to do is argue about really nothing.
He even said I was a Grand Avenue hater which is the most stupid thing I ever heard! He also said I was an Elmwood Park Fanboy!
How could I be an Elmwood Park Fanboy when I have stated 20 times that they retreated years ago?

No, ChiTown is the problem, not Ivy. He's measuring his entire self worth as a person with the size of Grand Ave which is asinine.

What happens on other message boards or forums is really not subject matter for the GBB. Let's leave these comments on who/what is bad for little old ladies who have nothing else to discuss.

Hey SC, I understand the first part of your statement very clearly and I can see your point.
What does the second part of your statement mean if you don't mind me asking 'Let's leave these comments on who/what is bad for little old ladies who have nothing else to discuss'
What does that mean? Is that some kind of backhanded sarcastic humor meant to insult someone?

Very simply that there are better things to discuss here than members' personalities.

Okay, fair enough.

Getting back on topic, are the Cozzos made...or just top level associates?

Vincent Cozzo died in 2007. No other Cozzo's are made.

Call me crazy but I'll take regurgitated facts over original bullshit any day. But that's me.

Yeah I meant Phil and Sam. Associates?

Ivy Chi Hairy Yes u know the deal

Funkster. Phil and Sam are not made guys.

Grand Ave hasn't made any guys in years. Joey Lombardo and John DiFronzo haven't made anybody in years.
Grand Ave has a couple of made guys left over who answer to Elmwood Park. If anyone says differently, tell them to prove it.
A couple other younger guys hanging around Richard's Bar in The Grand Ave area are not made guys.

You have a choice:
You can believe Chitown, who is a Fanboy and wants Grand Ave to be big and powerful like it was 35 years ago, or you can believe Me, Ivy, Rocky Lombardo, Willie Messino and the F.B.I.

Those are everybody's choices.

In your opinion, has Cicero made anyone in the last 15 years? Btw...Willie and Jack story coming soon..have my coworker typing it up for me. Not a good story for Willie fans...

Yes, Cicero has made guys in the last 12 years. I don't know how many, but there were several made in the last 12 years.

Jack liked to keep Willie down. Willie was very loyal to Jack and also Johnny.

Jack was a cheapskate and not very popular with his own men.
They liked Joe Gagliano much better.

Phil Cozzo will 100% get made when he arrives home.

Yaawwwnn....grasping for things that just aren't there...just making up nonsense, really. It's 100% the other way around.

Also, copying & pasting things anyone can find on ipsn.org is not contributing information.

Huron stop saying people arent contributing when all u do is make up and exagerate bullshit about the outfit to try and make seem like its as powerful as u want it to be. Quit being a dickrider and u might actually contribute something.

OK, boys, it ends here! No more bashing. No more warnings.

No more warnings.

Who was that 85 year old man coming out of Super Low with a bag of groceries on Grand Ave in Elmwood Park yesterday who then jumped into his burgundy Dodge pick up with Mancari/Oak Lawn ads on the license plates??? Maybe he was headed east down Grand all the way to Richard's to meet with some of the posters here to give them juicy tidbits to post lol ...:) I can understand the debates here but not the impassioned disputes..seriously. But it's sure fun to watch..:)

@ Chicago..speaking of Cerone, what do you think of Fosco's stupid story that Aiuppa was planning on killing him if he hadn't died of cancer with the help of DiFronzo and Messino ??? As much as Cerone's guys disliked him - including Andriacchi - Cerone was in no position to change the order of things when he was released from prison and I don't see a reason at all to think that Cerone was planning on arming them since they had all finally gotten rich while he was in prison. What motive what Aiuppa and Cerone's old crew have to kill him when he was already dying??????????

Would Cicero make the guys that Elmwood Park would have made if they were still active?

The chin aud"iofiles are the best ill see if I can post a link at one point he blurt out "Meeeeehhhhh"

The Chin reminds me of officer doofy from scary movie, acts mentally disabled, kills everyone lol

12TH Street,
Fosco made up the story because he hates Cerone Jr., Jack's son.
He also made up the extortion story and the other story about Willie discussing murder deatails with him. LOL

End of story. Everything you said is completely correct. No point for me to reiterate it.

PP, Yes, it's possible Cicero would have made a guy in the last 10 years that would have been made by Elmeood park had they been active.
However, that means the guy would have to become close to Cicero somehow and would have had to work under someone in Cicero or 26th st for several years before getting made and put in a position to run a Franchise.

Chicago traditionally only makes guys who have worked as soldier/associates for many years. They never made people just for the sake of making guys.

They had to prove themselves over several years and then they could get made for a reason, like taking over a Franchise from the made guy they worked under because he got sick, died or went to prison. Also, He could move up and get made for expansion purposes by starting a new Franchise by himself or in partnership with another made guy.

lol wow this thread was hilarious. Looks like someone got "outted." You failed to name your "fathers" famous neighbor. I'll give you a clue--he was boss of the Outfit for a time and the man that your "father" derived his power from.

I rest my case. Yawn.

LOL. Naming an old neighbor doesn't prove anything about the Grand Ave Crew you said was a full functioning Crew with Albie Vena as a Boss.
Name the made guys in the Grand Ave crew that you say is a full functioning Crew.

Put up/Shut Up or admit you were exaggerating.

You can't do it because you're full of shit.

lol I have no idea who is made in Grand Ave aside from Albie, Phil, Christy and his brother Johnny. I am not apart of the crew. I just know what I see and that crew is visible still in the neighborhood after all these years.

Chicago did you know that Tony Accardo is my father? I won't prove it but just take my word for it

Phil and Johnny are not made. I don't have to prove anything to you. You're not the F.B.I.

I'm glad you're Tony Accardo's son. However, being that your his son, you should be better informed about the Outfit. Perhaps he didn't talk to you enough about it.

Do you really think I'm the only one who stopped believing your schtick? Chuckie English's son haha...first check to see he had one before you try it dumbass.

OK, I was more than patient with you two, but you didn't care to take advantage of that. You're both intent on pissing on each other and all that is doing is drawing flies to the board.

I'm gonna get some bug spray and give you both a two week vacation. If and when you do come back you'll hopefully have stopped this childish nonsense between you two.

Dang two people just got pinched, you think any of them will roll?

Down go Frazier !!!!!!!!

SC, please be so kind as to explain..It is being inferred that there is a user here who is using 2 different monikers from the same IP address..Is that so?? If it is why not say that??

Chicago = elmwoodparker/the don

I suspected that from the beginning because he started writing right after elmwood got banned. But then I wasn't so sure. But then he started talking about made guys and soldiers etc. But Chicago never shat on the five families like elmwood did though. So who knows?

SC you implied that also..Why not settle it end the speculation and set the record straight ???..

C'mon SC out with it !!!! Then tell us who the fuck is Keyser Soze ????????...........:)

In honor of Elmwood.

Kevin Spacey!

He realized he wasn't Going to be able to get away with That here.

LOL! !!

"The Beatles of organized crime" is a silly catchphrase Chicago used on here to refer to the Taylor Street Crew. Funny how the Don used the same phrase to refer to the Taylor Street crew on ANP more than once.

Correct. That was the first one That came to mind.

I don't know anything about these guys but this "Down Go Frazier" breaks me up

Down goes Frazier, down goes Frazier, down goes Frazier!!! .

LOL! Howard Cosell. Foreman put Smoking Joe down 6 times that fight.

The things you guys come up with !

Frazier is one of the most overrated HWs of all time, along with Tyson.

Idk if he's porters son im pretty sure porter had some boys tho

But yes, very clever, lol.

Frazier was pretty small for a heavyweight. He took alot of punches just to give one of his. It took it's toll on him. But him and Ali put on 3 real good fights in my opinion.

with the exception of very few it seems most Chicago posters are fanboys those who are not you know who you are.

I just don't think Frazier belongs anywhere near names like Louis, Holmes, Ali, etc. His record & skillset just weren't on that level.

Nah buddy, Frazier was the man top 5 heavyweights easy, who did what he did better than him. A decent amount of my favorite fights involved him.

Derailed?

Gigante never had a bad dream let alone a wet one about the windy city.

Thread closed.

You guys are right that The Don first used that phrase and that Chicago used it here. There are also some differences: Elmwood Parker/The Don claimed to have a relative in the Grand Avenue Crew, while Chicago said he's the son of a mostly Taylor Street guy. Another difference is that Elmwood Parker went after Ivy League while Chicago and Ivy get along. Just sayin'.

I typically get along with anyone that agrees with the known facts.

I'm sure Dan would disagree with you on that one LOL

I get along with Ivy and Chicago.
An Outfit to yours is half an hour on a friday night.

Just sayin.

I get along with both of them too. The thing about Dan is an inside joke and the other RD posters will get it.

Don't know what you mean by "An Outfit to yours is half an hour on a friday night."

No. Debatable, but no. Could give a motherfuck who was involved in your favorite fights.

Agreed, Frazier was certainly a great fighter and was very entertaining he is highly overrated. In my opinion he was probably the 9th or 10th best HW. 5 HW'S i don't think it's debatable that were better than Frazier.Ali,Louis,Holmes,Foreman and Holyfield. I'd also say Liston,Lewis,Marciano and Tyson were better but those are more debatable. I would also say Dempsey,Jack Johnson and Floyd Patterson have a strong argument.

Amen. Tunney& ezzard Charles had extremely respectable records at HW as well, for their size especially.

Hey you guys know there is a boxing thread in the sports section if you want to talk about rankings or whatever instead of here in the OC section.

Camarel...i don't think being the "9th or 10th best HW" is wrong. But thats not an insult to me, there has been many great heavyweights and being among the top 10 would be an honor to me.

All my italian paisons (i'm 100% italian) here will freak when i say this but i don't think Marciano was as great a fighter as a heavyweight as many do. I don't care that he was undefeated. He was super small and would of had multiple defeats if he ever fought anybody in the 70's. Foreman would of knocked the little guy out just like he did Frazier and several other fighters would of defeated him too. Sorry guys but i think the Rock gets way too much acclaim. Even the name guys he did fight were way out of their prime. A young Joe Louis would of wiped the ring with the Rock.

Ok let the flaming begin! lol

Marciano is highly overrated in my opinion as well. Louis would have completely destroyed him.

Look, no one is saying Frazier wasn't talented, he just isn't top five & that's not debatable.

Anyways, for the record, my top three HWs (unbiased) reads as follows:

1.)Louis
2.)Holmes
3.)Clay

My father and i used to debate the Ali-Louis thing to death. He said Louis would of KO'd Ali and i thought Ali would of danced around Louis and would of gotten the decision.

I can't tell you how many times we went over that stuff.

According to my father..Joe Louis and Sugar Ray Robinson were the 2 best fighters ever. He saw Sugar Ray fight a couple times growing up in Brooklyn.

[quote=F_white]Down go Frazier !!!!!!!!

People clearly did not get the joke about SC handing down suspensions.

We got the joke, we just went off topic a bit.

Louis was a much better boxer than Clay, I really don't think that's debatable either. And I agree with your old man, he would have KOd him. I also believe Holmes would Have KOd any version of Clay. (Holmes gets underrated because he wasn't a popular personality)

I thought it was the general consensus that Ray Robinson is the Michael Jordan of the sport.

Sugar Ray was the man! My father would of liked you HSA.

IMHO Ali in his prime was a great fighter, he was never the same guy when he came back. He lost his legs, they were shot.

Great subject, but lets move this conversation to the sports section before we get flamed.

Sorry, **Holmes would have BEATEN any version of Clay** not KOd