Non Italian made members

I'm sure this has been discussed and I apologize in advance. That said, anyone know the names of any non full blooded Italians who were made? The names of the individuals and the families they were inducted in would be great. I know John Veasey, John Gotti jr., and Steve Flemmi were not full blooded. Are there any more? Any guys with no Italian heritage at all?

Steve Flemmi turned down his button I think you mean frank "Cadillac frank" salemme who was half Irish and eventually boss of the patriarcas and he made his son frank jr who was only one quarter Italian

It is also possible that Frank Narducci jr of Philadelphia may not be Italian he was adopted by Bruno family soldier\capo Chickie Narducci but I don't know if he's Italian or another ethnicity

Jimmy marcello was half irish. But im sure in new york there were quite a few half italians who were made bc in the 90s they changed the rules that u only had to be italian on your fathers side(meaning having an italian last name) to be made.

Andrew Campos, Craig DePalma, and John Gotti Jr.

I've counted it's in the teens as far as I know of, between the 90's and now there's allot more however I'd say 75 percent of them is due to a father or uncle or other relative who's already a member,but don't kid yourself into thinking they would hold it against a guy if he was earnig enough, how about Andy from NJ he had a legal name change

I did mean Frank Selleme, thanks

The Outfit had also non-Italian groups/made guys.

Ivy said there were two of em in Detroit as well around the 70's.

Every family had a high ranking non-Italian unmade member. Murray Humphreys, Milton Rockman, Max Jaben, Joe Watts, Raynald Desjardins, Hugh McIntosh.

Chucky Porter was made in Pittsburgh, though he flipped. Richard Cain was half Irish and probably made.

I think that i also heard about that

Dick Cain was probably one of the more fascinating figures in Outfit history....Gangster/Cook County Sheriff/alleged CIA Operative/alleged FBI Informant...A busy and fascinating guy lol

There's never been a made member of any Mafia family that didn't have at least some Italian blood. Ever.

That said, there's been several guys who were only Italian on their father's side. And even a few who were only Italian on their mother's side. Some made guys who weren't 100% Italian included...


Frank "Cadillac Frank" Salemme
John "Junior" Gotti
John "Jackie" Salemme
James "Jimmy" Marcello
Charles "Chucky" Porter
Albert "Kid Blast" Gallo
Craig DePalma
Andrew "Andy" Campos
James "Jimmy" Martorano
Joseph "The Nodder" Sodano
Vincent (Filipelli) Philipps
Joseph "The Beach Bum" Massei
Joseph "Crazy Joe" Gallo
Lawrence "Larry" Gallo
John Veasey
Frank Salemme Jr.
Robert "Bobby the Tiger" La Puma
Andrew "Andy Knapik" Merola

well Ivy there could at least one person Michael Franzese he was adopted by sonny .unless he came from his wife,Or thay knew the blood line .Carmine did not like sonny. This i know first hand just never asked around after i herd it.

Good list Ivy but again I have to respectfully disagree about the three Gallo brothers, your the only source if ever heard that from, if be glad to change my kind though if I saw some evidence , also John Gotti Jr is honestly a technicality he's 75 percent Italian meaning three Italian grandparents, the rest of those guys had only 2 or in the case of Frank S Jr even one

Ludwig Ninny Bruschi

Always wondered about him (Ludwig?!).

Is the name Bruschi Italian? Anyone have any info on his lineage?

Thanks in advance.

Didn't Michael say in his book that, after he thought he had been adopted for years, he later found out he was in fact Sonny's son?

I dont know i was going off memory it must of been a card game or sitting by the pool or maybe even the girls could of said it .I for sure never asked anyone made . I am going to find out .

Andy Campos is full Italian.

Andrew Campos mother is Italian and father is Puerto rican

Can I ask your sources?

Carmela say: you do search on here, you find verwy verwy many posts already on Andrew Campos.

http://www.gangsterbb.net/threads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=721345&page=1

http://www.gangsterbb.net/threads/ubbthr...true#Post706869

http://www.gangsterbb.net/threads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=680529&page=1

They may as well disable the search function because it seems your the only one who takes the time to use it

My thanks Carmela.

Feds said he was full Italian around the time of that huge case.

Ask anyone on Belmont or Arthur Avenue or better yet go to his old schoolmates at Mt St Michael, they will tell you what nationality really is.

Strange that the Feds would say that, but you sound like you know what you're talking about so ill take your word for it.

[quote=Beanshooter]Ask anyone on Belmont or Arthur Avenue. [/qquote]Ive tried, but my Albanian has been a little rusty since I graduated high school

ITS ALL A JOKE... YOU JUST HAVE TO HAVE AN ITALIAN LAST NAME OR BE A TOP EARNER WITH ANY KIND OF LAST NAME... LA FAKE NOSTRA.

MOST RECENT

BILLY ANGELESCO WHO HAS HALF IRISH WAS INDUCTED TO NEW ENGLAND FAMILY IN 2001-2002

GREG COSTA- IS PORTUGUESE AND A SUPPOSED MADE MAN

ITS ALL SUCH A JOKE THESE DAYS... IVE SIAD A MILLION TIMES BUT THE ONES WHO R OUT THERE DOING DIRT ARE SPANISH/BLACK/ASIAN GANGS AND BIKERS.

or be willing to kill suckers for them

Lic you got a real hard on for LCN.

There have been several made guys who were not full Italian but they still had Italian blood and, almost always, an Italian last name. Only a few were Italian only on their mother's side. There has never been a guy made who wasn't at least partially Italian. But all of these are the exceptions to the rule. Just because a guy has an Italian last name, doesn't mean he's going to get made. Nor will a non-Italian simply because he makes a lot of money. If that were the case, a guy like Joe Watts would have got his finger pricked a long time ago.

Greg Scarpa Jr, The Grim Reaper's original wife's name was Connie Forrest. Also Senior's family came from Venezia ie far northern Italy which was traditionally a no no

There was an informant in Chicago in the early 1960s who said he was an old-timer who was accepted into the Outfit in the early days because he had an Italian last name and he looked Italian. The details were sketchy and the document was heavily redacted(can't find it at the moment) but he said he had moved to Chicago from the East Coast. My guess would be that he was really an Italian Jew. He said if word got out, he'd be in danger. Could be BS who knows.

NEW ENGLAND PATRIARCA

SALEMME'S
MARTARANO'S
COSTA'S
ANGELESCO
PRYCE QUINTANA- HERD HE WAS HALF JEWISH??? A REVERE OLD TIMER.

I said this in a recent thread. But if Frankie Narducci was adopted in infancy and he grew up italian then I would consider him italian American. Because his last name is italian and being italian is in his blood.

But if he's not Italian, it's not in his blood.

By in his blood I mean metaphorically. Nobody is literally of italian blood it's type A and type B etc.

If you're not italian/irish/german/american/african...you're not. Your dna is what it is, you can't be something you're not, just because you're adopted and grew up within a certain culture. Culture is one thing, but your dna is another.
When this person has children you consider them having italian genes too, because their father was adopted into an italian family? lol

By in his blood I mean its the only thing he knows. Its part of his everyday life. Being italian and the italian culture is a part of him permanently. It's never going to leave him.

I would consider them italian yes! Lol. Because the last name sticks with them and their legal father and grandparents ancenstry would be traced back to Italy. In terms of genes thats a little complicated because in the end I really believe that we all came from one place anyway so.

If their DNA is tested off of a gun(Let's just say for arguments sake)it will say Frankie Narducci. It won't say a different name because his blood might not be italian.

So, if I go out and change my last name to an Italian surname tomorrow, I'm suddenly Italian? Sorry, it doesn't work like that.

But if you changed your surname it wouldn't trace back anywhere. Your legal parents aren't italian so you wouldn't be italian. And you aren't italian? I was under the impression that everyone on this site for the most part was. Not that it matters.

Except that wouldn't go beyond the paper it was printed on. It doesn't change one's DNA. Using the same hypothetical scenario, even if it were possible to falsify my family's historical records going back as far as possible, it wouldn't make me Italian.



No, both sides of my family come from England. There are lots of posters on these OC forums that are not Italian.

Falsifying records? I think you're going too far lol. If someones your parents then they are your parents. Legally they are your parents. If it says on that paper that so and so is your mother an father than they are. In a court of law it would say joe is your father whether he is your biological father or not. If it says it on that paper, then that's what it is.

Lets say, I adopted a boy at infancy and he had a project in school where he had to trace back his ancenstry. I'm not going to say, "Well your German". In going to say "You grew up Italian with me and your mother, you have my last name, you are italian. My ancestry goes back to Italy, therefore, so does yours".

If I was the boss of a family, I would mostly want Italians but if there were some special earners who have proved themselves by being loyal and they understand the rules and understand omertà then I would have them inducted. It's not like Italians don't rat in the mob and Italians aren't stupid when it comes to mafioso business because a lot of them are. A lot of them aren't too.

No, the boy's real ancestry is from wherever his biological parents were from. This is something that can't be changed by the courts, upbringing, etc. Somebody may be recognized legally as something, but that doesn't change what they actually are.

I disagree. And I think you're way off. But I feel the way I feel and so do you.

I really believe that everybody started out in Africa. That's my belief.

no being italian is not in his blood, just because he was raised as an italian does not make him of italian descent, but like i said before i dont know what ethnicity his biological parents were so it is possible that they were also italian

You can disagree all you want but it doesn't matter. This isn't a subjective issue based on opinion. It's an objective, black and white issue. You sound like those people that think a man going through a sex change, and legally changing his name to Sally, actually makes him a woman.

Ivy. You feel the way you feel and I feel the way I feel. That's it. I disagree with you and I think you are way off. If someone grows up with their parents their whole life and they feel they are what their parents are, how can you say "No you are not that" to them? I guess you have to be in that position to judge. I have a friend who was adopted and my cousins kid was adopted. Their parents have always told them they were italian and that their ancestors came from Italy. That's why they have such a strong sense of being italian. Just like everyone else in my family. Even though my friend is actually italian he has a strong pride in being specifically sicilian. His parents are sicilian. So he has deep pride in being sicilian even though he might not even be Sicilian. But his parents are and he loves his parents and his parents tell him they are sicilian specifically so he is too. My cousin's kid acts and talks just like everyone in the family. He has the same values and he says he's italian if you ever ask him what he is. It's a part of them. So is my cousin not "One of us"? Is he not considered my blood? Or my kin? And the disparaging remarks are not necessary my man. No need to get angry over a simple conversation.

Was Jimmy Martorano made? Not John, his bro

I've already explained this and you just seem intent on thinking this is a matter of opinion when it isn't. As for you friend who was adopted, or your cousin's kid who was adopted, it totally depends on who their birth parents were. If their birth parents weren't Italian, they are NOT Italian. It's got nothing to do with how much they love their parents, how they act and talk, etc.

My cousins borth parents are not italian. But his parents are. And that's how he's grown to be. An italian. It's all he knows. It's not an opinion. It's a fact that that's the way he's grown up. It's a fact that his last name traces back to his great grandfather in Sicily. He will forever be tied to his italian roots.

Again. You have to be in that position to judge. And apparently you are not.

Edit: So don't be so judgemental. You don't know everything you know. It's impossible. Like I said, you feel how you feel and I feel how I feel. That's it.

John Gotti Jr was 75% italian or half? Was his mother half italian or not italian at all? And didn't john change the rule so his son could be inducted?

EDIT: He was 75%. Not half.

Whether your cousin's adopted kid is Italian or not has nothing to do with this thread. The purpose of the you must be Italian rule is so yor family can be traced back to Italy or Sicily and your family killed should you become a rat. Your cousins kid may be culturally Italian but he is not of Italian blood no matter how many bowls of pasta he has eaten. While he may identify with Italians because of the culture he was raised, his bloodline cannot be traced back to Italy.

I'm sorry but you are way off. And it's all opinion. We differ. We could argue forever. But like you said, it has nothing to do with this thread and you are right. So let's just drop this.

Yeah most of us live in a thing called reality.

I'm sure your life isn't exactly going the way that you want it to which is why you feel the need to argue and that's perfectly fine. But let's just drop this. You have your opinion and I have mine.

Now, back to the topic please. I'm sure you guys don't want to see this thread closed for going off topic.

You want it dropped because you have faultly premise which you cant scientifically support and because someone disagrees with you, you want to take your ball and go home.

So using your premise, if an Irish couple adopted a black child at birth, he is then Irish because he was raised in that culture, is that what you saying.

Yes. That's exactly what I'm saying actually. He would be considered Irish in my book. And no. There's no fallacy in my argument. I stick to my point. I'm just tired of arguing because its just one persons opinion against another's. This argument is not going to get anywhere and it's pointless. If anything there must be fallacy in your argument if you have to insult someone in the mist of a conversation.

And another thing, "Joey Dice"? Really? Let me guess you're one of the thousands of people who fantasizes about being in the mafia. I hate it when I see people romanticize about that stuff. Makes me sick. At the end of the day they give a bad name to italian Americans. I understand why they do what they do but that doesn't mean I respect it.

Insult you, when did I insult you. Disagreeing with you is insulting you. Okay whatever, sounds to be your adopted and your just trying to justify how you think regardless of the truth.

Ya thats its LOL, of course your on the same site so whats your reason. LOL.

Being raised by a race different than yours in no way makes you that race. You may act like that race since you were raised with them but doesn't make you that race.

Or perhaps you could, like obomma have all birth records disapear

I think one must define "race" first. To me there is a difference between race and ethnicity. I wouldn't consider being Italian a race (to refer to the original point of this thread).

Again, you don't walk on water. Your opinions aren't fact. When you said "well most of us live in reality", that's an insult. "Regardless of the truth", when you talk like that you just come off as arrogant. Not insulting you or anything, I'm just saying that you have an opinion and I have one. And for your info, no I am not adopted. I can see why you might think that based on my stance in this convo, but I know people who were adopted. I have family who was adopted. You have to be in that position to judge which you obviously aren't. Sorry but in my opinion you are WRONG. Just like in your opinion I am WRONG.

I am 100% italian. Does that mean that all of my family actually traces back there? No. Thousands of people were raped in southern Italy by Norman's, Moors, and others in that area. Many people in my family look middle eastern, Indian, or Hispanic. Many people in my family have African features. Myself included somewhat. Would a DNA test say whether or not my ancestors were one of the people raped? No. That's why a DNA test is pointless when trying to determine our ancestry.

Big boy, I really do think that Obama did falsify his records. I mean Hawaii?! Seriously? I just don't believe he was born here but there's nothing we can do about it. And there's no way we can prove it. So it is what it is.

Go to Italy and try telling them you're 100% Italian. You're born in america, you're american.

I joined because I am interested in it. Always have been. I've never romanticized about crime and I never will. People don't understand how many innocent people are hurt because of the mafia. I guarantee that everyone on this site did not join this because they wish they were in the mafia.

Yeah I agree I should've used ethnicity since that's what Italian is but I was just saying race not specific to Italian.

Guess what? You're 100% right lol. I call myself american before italian. I am American cultured not italian. I am american cultured with a strong sense of italian culture. The italian culture is getting a lot more Americanized in America. My parents would be considered more italian than American but my generation is pretty much just 100% American like you said.

Well that was easy. I was all prepared for a brawl. Glad we see eye to eye on this. I'm tired of fighting.

Lol same! But yeah I'm proud to be an American. I feel my country is the best out there.

What part of New Jersey are you from Carmela

Central.

What place exactly? I have a brother in law who lives there. I'm from Jersey City originally but moved to the sunshine state. It was nice living in the NYC metropolitan area but I like it down here much much more.

Hold on. Stay right there. I'll be right back with my home address, phone number, and why not..I'll even throw in my SS# for shits and giggles.

Lol I just meant city. If you don't want to that's fine I understand. My brother in law lives in bernardsville. You live anywhere near there?

There is no such thing as "Italian blood". Italians were never an ethnicity, they're a political nation created in 19th century, their identity is based on Italian language (Italian dialects) and geography (Italy was a geographic term since antiquity). That the entire peninsula speaks Italian language is a result of Romans subjecting other ethnicities in the region who spoke different languages and had different origin (for example Greeks in the south in "Magna Graecia", Etrusci in the north), then during the Roman empire Italy was even more ethnically ("racially") mixed as a lot of different ethnicities from all over the empire came to Rome. After the empire collapsed even more newcomers came; there were all kinds of invasions, from Arabs to Normans and other Germanic tribes. You also had big Jewish and Albanian minorities living in Italy for centuries.

So what would be Italian blood here? There was no real ethnogenesis of Italian people, they were formed as a nation in 19th century when culturally and 'racially' diverse people of Italy became a united political nation, not much different from USA.

Italians are white. I don't think anyone's disputing that. When people talk about being Italian, it's meant they are of Italian heritage.

Try on any Italian with any of that Moor/Black shit and you're getting popped in the nose. No 2 ways about it.

All "whites" have some black DNA. Some ethnic groups have a higher percentage than others. Depends on how strict you want to define a certain group or race.

It basically comes down to we are all one race. The human race.

Not Carmela she is from mean race ,Just ask her ,I am not

I remember my grandmother would always hate it when I suggested that maybe we had moor/black ancenstry but honestly, after seeing all of the studies that have come out over the years, I think it's pretty well know that many Italians have moor/black/middle eastern etc. ancestry.

I am mean, you're right. Tell your friends.

Aside from that, I don't care who's got black in them, etc etc. Even my husband never cares or engages in this conversation. He's born in sicily that's all he cares about, the rest...meh...
I just know how others react to this sort of stuff.

I said Arabs not 'blacks'. 'Moor' is a medieval term for Muslim population in northern Africa and Muslims in Europe (Iberia, Sicily). They were mostly Arabs and Berbers/some other northern African ethnicity that converted to islam, ie. 'whites' (Caucasoid/Europid race, to use the correct term). They weren't 'black', they just had some black slaves and soldiers with them, that's why Europeans often portrayed 'Moors' as blacks in some exotic depictions and heraldry. It's far from reality. I don't see how Italians would have any black ancestry.

I only used the term Moors b/c it was mentioned by someone else in either this thread or another one. That's not my term.

For the record, I agree with your post here 100% but others are ignorant to most of this.

Blood in blood out your shell is just that.

What does that even mean? Do you even know about haplogroup data?

Well yeah we're all human. But I'm pretty sure I don't have an ounce of African American blood in me. Just saying

My wife is Sicilian .and she gets tougher each day... but sometimes she not so nice...

Southern Italians are sometimes insulted if someone says that they have non-European ancestors because that's what racists from Northern Italy who don't like southerners like to point out, to 'explain' why southerners are 'inferior' to northern Italians. You even have this Padania movement in Northern Italy which wants to see the north independent from the rest of Italy and looks down on southerners. So it's natural that southern Italians are defensive when it comes to this issue, because they suspect that they're drealing with some anti-southern chauvnistic Padanian nationalism.

It's the same in the Balkans where certain nations are accused of having a lot of "Turkish blood" in them.

When I say that they have Arab blood it's strictly because I think it's true, I don't have any agenda and I don't want to be provocative or anything. It's nothing to be ashamed of anyway, Arabs who invaded Sicily were civilized and Norman-Arab culture in Sicily prospered for many years. Those 'Arabs'/Moors were mostly north Africans who were part of Roman civilization when Germanic/Nordic people were still living in woods.

well put Thankyou