Outfit activity?

Lurker for awhile big interest in the Outfit. Saw this in the paper today....any of the Chicago guys see this? I've never heard any of the names in the article nor have I see them on any Outfit lists. What do you guys think? Might just be a bunch of goofballs though.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local...0,1275092.story

On a separate note, HuronSocialAthletic...based on your handle...is it safe to assume the Huron Social Athletic Club by Smith Park is the current West Side Crew's Social Club?

Probably a little crew of goofballs as you say. Although, if they are making those types of moves 1 would assume that they would be kicking some of that ccollection money up as street tax for operating.

These people had nothing to do with the Outfit.

Funkster those morons on anp are afraid to come out with it, but yes: the hsac was opened by Joe Lombardo in 1972 under a Mr Jack larocco. It is the primary social club of the gac

Huron, Joe Fosco is a Con Man. He helped con his rich friend, a guy named Vasselli, out of $400,000 Dollars. He didn't receive any of the Money from the Con, so he invented a story saying that the Outfit guys extorted $500,000 Dollars from his family.
Then, He changed the story and said Vasselli put up $400,000 and his Grandmother put up the other $100,000.
He said Vasselli paid Fratto and Cerone Jr. the money because Vasselli didn't want to see them spread terrible lies about Fosco all over Chicago. LOL.

We should call Fosco and tell him to pay us $400,000 Dollars or we will spread lies about him on gangsterbb. I'll split it with you. LOL
That is the dumbest, most stupid fucking bullshit extortion story I ever heard in my life.
Fosco then filed a Civil RICO lawsuit against the DiFronzo Brothers. Fratto and Cerone Jr. The suit was DISMISSED.

Fosco was so afraid of these guys that he went and Harrassed Cerone Jr., an attorney, and Cerone filed criminal charges against Fosco! He SAID there is a 5 count Felony on his record that was a mistake but the Court WON'T CORRECT IT! The guy is a laughing joke.
And, to top it off, a couple of his old readers believed him!

I would like to sell those guys some swamp land I have for sale in Florida.

Yes I'm well aware of the Joe fosco saga LOL. He's still an Outfit groupie, he's never denied it.

Mike mags on the other hand: you claimed he's a nobody & I strongly disagree. He's very much a somebody, and someone who I personally believe was a made man for a short time. He just wasn't cut out for the life of a gangster, but was born into it due to his mighty pedigree, and flourished because of his charisma/book abilities. He's someone they're very much concerned about.

I heard AV's name got dropped by that fuck head coconate today on Mike's "sports podcast", and mags panicked, and ended the show abruptly & flipped out.

Huron, Yeh, I know about Mike Mags. He is basically a nobody now because he's been black balled from Elmwood Park. Nobody wants to have anything to do with him because of his association with Fosco and because of the 4 or 5 shop lifting incidents. That's what I really meant.
Yes, years ago he was more significant, you're right. He should never have gone into the life. Big mistake. You know what I was told years ago?
'This is my life, this is absolutely not for you'. Any sensible father should say those words to his son.
Lee Magnafichi wanted his son involved.

As far as the other guy, his name should be changed to:
Frank COCONUTTE. LOL.

The majority of Outfit guys want their kin deeply involved. You are very much an exception to the rule.

The myth that the Chicago Outfit didn't get their sons involved is just that: an absolute myth. Yes, it was less prevalent here, but one look at the makeup of the modern Cicero/Chinatown crews will tell you that it's deep in the blood.

Who's son is a made guy in Cicero or 26th St?
Toots Caruso's relatives, Leo & Bruno are not his sons.

Who's son is in Cicero?
Nobody I can think of?

Who's son is in Grand Ave?
Nobody I can think of.

Who's son is in Elmwood Park?
Maybe Gary Gagliano.

I think It was more RELATIVES than sons.

There are many examples, the majority of which Are younger men whom I don't really care to name drop here.

That's what I thought you would say. LOL.

STRONGLY DISAGREE...Yes there have been several Outfit guys who involve their sons over the years but most do NOT...They may set their sons up in businesses-what father wouldn't? But those businesses are most often LEGIT

The Outfit has become more like Detroit to a certain extent--not only are the sons involved in the unions/companies that their fathers created, but there are a lot of inter-marriages too. For instance, Inendino's son Sammy married Sarno's niece Nicole (who she very much considers a father figure). Albie Vena is related to the Spina's through marriage. Casey S and Frankie Caruso..the list goes on. These kids grew up together to a large extent, so hardly "arranged marriages," but interesting to follow since it obviously makes it harder to turn rat against your relatives.

As for Huron Social Club...did that replace the Boomerang Club on Grand and May that was owned by Dominic Calarco? I think Calarco was forced to close it after Lombardo was caught hiding with him, but I would assume they still own the property. Christy's motorcycle was parked outside there almost every day.

That was a great place to eat on Sunday afternoons.

Philly Cozzo is probably made or was on his way in Grand Ave and you should know his father. Philly was a driver for Lombardo (who is like his uncle) at one point and is very close with Christy.

On 26th Street, Nick Ferriola was also on his way to being made.

As for Cicero, Solly D's sons certainly run his bars and restaurants in Lake County, but I don't consider them criminals.

I always wondered what the story with that place was (boomerang club). I assume you're referring to the place across the street from D'Amatos? I live at the Grand/Ogden area....used to see those guys out front on their lawn chairs every day during the summer. Always wondered why they had to shut it down. Since it was so close after Lombardo got indicted...I figured it had quite a bit to do with it.

that's another reason Chicago doesn't have more power

they'd be better off criminally if their sons were groomed to be mobsters

From a criminal perspective, maybe you're right Cook County. From a parenting perspective, my kudos and respect to those Outfit guys who made sure they kept their kids out of the life. As a parent myself I could NEVER understand why ANY gangster would want his kids to follow in his footsteps. The old Italians have a saying that the people who love you the most ALWAYS tell you 'GO WASH YOUR FACE, I WANT YOU TO LOOK BETTER THAN ME"...Very deep and poignant statement that is VERY fitting to a discussion like this one.

The guy that Lombardo was living with in Elmwood Park while in hiding (Dominic Calarco) was the President of that club, but Joey L and Joey A would have the place cleared out on a regular basis to take meetings. Here is a link to their website, which one of my cousins started:
http://men-cooking.takeashare.com/

Funkster you should also take a look at the Cozzo compound on Racine about a block North of Grand Avenue. Large compound of buildings with a high wall and Italian flag. That was Jimmy Cozzo's house and a major meeting spot for the GAC through the 1980s, but Phiilly now lives there. They also are one of the few to have a pool in the neighborhood (even though all zoning laws won't permit that )

ChiTown, any way we could see the compound from Google street view?

Sure just use street view and follow his direction. One block north of Grand on Racine.

Chitown, Not many sons went into the Outfit. Only a few. It was more RELATIVES than sons. If you, and in particular, Huron, want to make it a lot more than it was in reality, so be it.
The vast majority of Outfit guys did not want their sons to live the same life as them, take it from ME. If anybody argues differently, they are only being Fanboys not dealing with reality.

Some people are Delusion about the Outfift its SAD!

Sorry, but that just isn't true. It has nothing to do with fan boy ism. I acknowledged that it wasn't as prevalent as in NY, but it was quite common & There is just no denying that.

The Outfit has very, very little in common with the wheezing detroit family.

Regarding the Boomerang, I don't know if it necessarily replaced it. Joey L opened the HSAC in 1972. There were/are MANY social clubs in the Patch, but the HSAC was closest to Lombardo's home. It's always been a popular one for them, and now is the most popular.

The Cozzo compound is still a destination for the GAC. They're in & out of the entrance on Racine all the time. What a fucking fortress that place is. It's behind Vinnies sub shop (some of the best sandwiches in the city fyi).

However, if you're really looking to run into that crew, just hang out @ the Burger Baron during the afternoon lol....

I'm gonna go there and ask them their advice on how to best beat someone with a baseball bat.

"Do you start at the ankles or the knees? You're the experts."

Since when did 'The Patch' become associated with Grand Ave?
The Patch was Taylor St. Giancana would be very upset with you!LOL.

No shit...always wondered what the wall with the flag behind it was.
Its right by the bar Mahoney's and not too far from the auto repair
shop. I had read somewhere that Burger Baron is a spot as well...it's
literally a block and a half from me. Nice place to buy a quick six
pack if needed!

How active are they now..is Joe Kong retired now? Is Ablie Vena now the
head of the West Side Crew?

I really don't know anyone that called the Harrison to Taylor area "the patch". That was the name for the Smith park neighborhood. It's google-able if need be.

Lol.

Sorry Chicago but that's flat-out wrong. Taylor Street was always known as Taylor Street...the Patch was Grand/Ogden and stretched from California to Orleans and Chicago Ave to Madison. At one point, the original row houses in the Cabrini Housing projects off Chicago/Orleans were home to Sicilians and was known as "Little Sicily." When those folks moved out of those projects (including my grandfather) most stayed in the general neighborhood aka "the Patch."

There is only one logical explanation. Both areas were called the Patch. I was always around the Taylor St element and they referred to the area sometimes as 'The Patch'.
Everybody is correct.

Chitown, by the way, awhile back you made some remark about me being Joe Fosco and I corrected you. I'm not Joe Fosco. I take that as an insult. LOL.

Chicago,

You are exactly right. I have discussed this in depth on another forum where people interested in city history etc. go.

"The Patch" basically at some point became a catch all term that seemed to follow the Italian immigrants around, from Grand Ave. to Taylor Street, and in some books writers even refer to Little Hell (where Cabrini recently was) as "The Patch."

The most narrow definition seems to be around Smith Park, but it's been so widely misused for so long that I don't think that definition really means anything anymore.

Joe kong is irrelevant at This point. Gac is the smallest crew, but they still have some young guns (30s/40s) young. AV is the boss with Pordyla as his underboss.

Speaking of Porky, to those who refute the Outfit making non Italians, Porky is half Polish on his old man's side, so.

The real overseer is Joey Andriacchi, Lumpy's Cousin. Vena takes direction from mainly him and also Elmwood Park if the need were to arise. Porky is a high level Associate but is not made. He could be compared to the German.

That's interesting. Smith Park area is & has always been known as Da Patch as far as I'm concerned.

I disagree with Porky not being made. And he's without a doubt #2 in that crew. Above Christie the nose.

Legs D'Antonio's club Where bella notte is located presently was the other big social club of theirs in the 80s.

He may be Feared, but he is not made. However, the fact he isn't made doesn't really make any difference anyway. Frank the German wasn't technically made, did it really matter? He is no different than Frank The German.

Yes I know they were partners for many years. Albie was more or less their "apprentice", if you will. Still disagree though.

So Nose is #3?

Huron, I think you are mostly right about the Patch, but here is an example of its wide misuse, you will see the same thing in books.

Here the Wiki author on the 42 Gang entry is saying it’s where Cabrini was:

The Forty-Two Gang started in 1925, with twenty-four members (some as young as nine years). The boys supposedly named their gang after Ali Baba and the Forty Thieves, claiming they were one better than their fictional namesakes. The gang came from a Chicago neighborhood known alternatively as "the Patch," "Little Sicily," or "Little Hell" and was on the city's Near North Side. The neighborhood was later razed to accommodate Cabrini Green.

In the book “JFK and Sam” the author says it is the Little Italy area on South Aberdeen:

Gilormo Giancana was born on the West side of Chicago in 1908. Baptized Momo Salvatore Giancana, he was known as “Sam.” He lived with his parents—Antonino Giancana, a Sicilian immigrant grocer, and Antonia DiSimone—in a tenement (a housing structure for the poor) on South Aberdeen Street in a neighborhood referred to as “The Patch.”

Here’s a mob site saying it’s around Grand and Ogden:

Frank Cullotta born Dec. 14, 1938 on Grand and Ogden in the area called The Patch in Chicago IL.

And here’s a reference to Tony Spilotro in line with the far smaller Western/Washtenaw boundary:

“Unlike most Italian immigrants who settled in "The Patch," (located around Grand and Western Avenues, the Spilotros lived at 2152 North Melvina Avenue.”

And I admit, I was wrong. Fosco is not that bad of a guy, nor is Coconate. If you knew them personally, you might agree. They just have that Italian "know it all" attitude. When Fosco was a kid, he was akin to Nick Ferriola--a kid who lost their father at an impressionable age and tried to emulate the gangster side by associating with his father's friends. In both instances--Nick and Joe--they were used and spit out by their fathers associates. A lot of people can play internet tough guy, but you should really consider the circumstances before passing such concrete judgement.

lol shouldn't be a game of ego's, but I don't agree with your assessment of the Patch. There was always a rivalry between the two neighborhoods...the social clubs played softball against each other in the summers and there were derogatory names for residents of the Patch from those on Taylor Street. Most on Taylor in the 1950s and 60s would spit on you if you confused their neighborhood with the Patch. A lot more Sicilians in the Patch than Taylor Street.

Joey A is sick and 100% out of the rackets at this point. He was overseeing GAC but that was back in the early 2000s. He really hasn't been heavily involved in years--he was sick when Family Secrets was going on. Your info is outdated.

Vena runs GAC now and is not someone to fuck with. Christy is second to him, then Christy's brother Vito. They own a shitload of real estate and condo's throughout the Patch area (aka West Town). Bobby Dominic (the guy with the mustache you see at Richard's Bar) is also heavily involved with that crew still.

Also Bella Notte is Robert Bellavia's place...his daughter Roseanne runs it with her Cuban husband. I think they have a second location. Decent food.

Chi Town, Apparantly Sam Giancana was wrong in referring to the Taylor St area as the Patch. I guess there was only one area called the Patch and that was Grand Ave. There could not possibly have been two areas called the Patch by Italians back 50 years ago. On behalf of Sam Giancana & my father who were obviously wrong, I apologize.

Fosco & coconate certainly aren't good guys by any means. And the Nick f/fosco comparison is really grasping. Their fathers weren't even remotely close in regards to status. And Nick F, while not a legit hard head like his old man, is still a very tough Outfit Guy. Fosco is the definition of a wide eyed, groveling groupie.

Wasn't going to say anything, but yeah. Andrich is on his last legs & doesn't give anyone any orders. Albie & Porky call the shots on Grand these days. With P.Cozzo & several other younger guns ready to fill their spots.

Smith park people still refer to it as Da Patch till this day lol. Taylor St. has always been the Little Italy area as far as I'm concerned.

No one called Taylor Street Little Italy until it was branded that for marketing purposes. It was just called Taylor Street.

Bella Notte has some good food. Cook up a decent steak. What is Bellavia locked up for? I see he gets released in '16.

Huron & Chitown, Again, on behalf of Sam Giancana and my father who obviously were mixing up Taylor St with Grand Ave, I offer my apology. You guys know more about Taylor St than them. They were a bit mixed up.

All Outfit questions should be directed to you guys. Joey Andriacchi has absolutely no say in anything about Grand Ave anymore and the crew is full of everybody's sons.

Okay, no need to get sarcastic, let's just agree to disagree & move on. It's pretty trivial anyways. Didn't mean to question your knowledge.

AMEN !!!!!!!! Little Italy is DEFINITELY not on Grand and Sayre like the sign states either lol...One of the great things about Chicagoland is that there are 7 or 8 Little Italies... As I stated earlier, my Mom's family is all from Taylor Street and they referred to it as The Patch..I used to hear stories of those softball games between Taylor Street and Grand Avenue..

shit I thought u said andriacchi retreated years ago

he shouldn't have shit to say if he left his crew fatherless

12th St. You're preaching to the choir. The problem is that a couple of these guys have such big egos that they cannot accept the fact that sometimes people from Taylor St called their area 'The Patch' and people from the Grand Ave area ALSO called their area 'The Patch'.
One guy even told me to look it up on the internet. LOL.

I'm going by what was said on the street. I don't give a fuck about what some asshole wrote in Wikipedia. That's the difference.
I'm willing to acknowledge BOTH areas used that name but a couple other Guys want to go by Wikipedia and say it was ONLY Grand Ave.
Like Sam Giancana didn't know the difference between Grand Ave and Taylor St. He used to call it the Patch sometimes IN MY FUCKING HOUSE talking to my father when I was a kid.
Don't take it seriously, you just have to laugh at it. LOL.

Grand Ave., The small Crew he oversees from WAY in the background, retreated a long time ago from the street rackets. But, I'm not going to argue about it. Everybody can believe whatever suits their ego and makes them happy.

Wikipedia has Fat Ass Sarno as the boss of the Grand Avenue Crew lol...Maybe the Patch refers to the paved and unpaved nasty hookers that walk on Walnut east of Damen not too far from Grand Avenue perhaps??? lol

Anyone see this from a few months ago? Could be gangbangers but who knows.

http://my.chicagotribune.com/#section/-1/article/p2p-76134738/

LOL...that seems like a jacking Italians would do, especially in that neighborhood...:)

My thoughts exactly. Especially since the haul is swag like booze and car parts.

Too sophisticated for gangbangers

myfoxchicago.com/story/18972124/2012/07/07/230000-worth-of-hair-extensions-stolen-from-chicago-store


that's why you shouldn't label people gangbangers

How should I label them then, Cook County??? As youth group advocates??? What good is jacking all that shit if one doesn't have the fences to store and move it??? Do streetgangs have those kinds of connections ultimately??? Or does the Outfit?? You tell me.. Hair extensions are a score no doubt as they are in high demand not only by most black women but many other women as well. You can't just walk into Auto Zone and say "WANNA BUY 50K WORTH OF CAR PARTS FOR 25K???" Can't walk into liquor stores and say "WANNA BUY ALL THIS TOP SHELF BOOZE??" It has to be fenced in order to be moved. Your link didn't come through by the way.. Most beauty shops/barber shops are cash businesses and I'm sure those heistmen made a helluva score moving those extensions as those businesses are always looking to save money and lower stock expenses but it's not the same thing as they are much easier to move.

@12thstreet


you said gangbangers ain't sophisticated enough to pull off a job

I provided a link that proves otherwise

money is green and you can pretty much sell anything to make a buck

Yor link doesnt work!

copy and paste the link

you don't need mafia connections to sell stolen liquor

car parts would be hard to move but it ain't impossible

Cook county, the overwhelming majority of those heists are not done on a whim or at random, meaning the crew involved no matter who or what they are have a damn good idea what they'll be stealing ( if it already isn't in some way already an inside job). What that tells me is the crew who jacked the stuff not only knew what eas there but that they had the ability to move it quickly otherwise they would've left it

If they are running street rackets there sure can't be many down Grand Avenue. There is hardly anything on Grand between the river and Western, then it runs off into the ghetto emerging in Pole town.

I would bet there are a few social clubs down there, and I'm sure the boys own a lot of the property, but there is really a paltry number of bars and stuff down Grand. There are very few Italians left there anymore anyway.

Richards

Still many Italians on grand!

Indeed. No to mention, I don't think they exclusively have to operate on Grand lol.

I don't know many gangbangers who can drive a semi. I'm not saying there aren't any, but it's pretty rare. Most of the black truck drivers I see are older family guys, not likely to be in the street gangs.

Just look at the products...I seriously doubt its gang activity. I'm curious as to whether the OC unit would come out to something the gang unit might handle on its own...though its entirely possible that they investigate all gang crimes as well.

What kindof rackets is this grand avenue crew into? And where is this in chicago? (north, south...?) thnx

Nicky there are not many Italians left on Grand at all. Probably around 5 percent, 10 at most.

Yeah they might run book out of a couple places. Big f###kin' whoop.

People want to act like it's stil like A Bronx Tale or something.

It's over, let go.

I live in this neighborhood....it still has a heavy Italian stamp. But of course you're right, just like everywhere the old school Italian neighborhoods do not exist. It's actually getting quite yuppified.

Skinny, The Grand Ave crew is technically on the North Side.
This was Joey Lombardo's Crew. They basically retreated years ago with Elmwood Park. If anyone says differently, they are delusional. A couple of guys taking bets or doing some other thing independently is not a Street Crew.
There are a couple guys who are capable of violence if the Elmwood Park people need them, one guys name is Al Vena.

They still have a heavy presence in that neighborhood. They just can't be balls out about it like they were 30/40 years ago because of where it's located. Of course the neighborhood has changed, no one said it didn't, and no one here is pretending it is "like a Bronx tale". Go to east Bridgeport for that type of atmosphere (again, not like it was 30 years ago).

But the GAC still have their rackets. There is plenty of Money to be made over there. There are some very, very high stakes card games that take place frequently as well.

Elmwood park has their own heavies, They don't need AV.

One of the ANP readers just posted a pic of Christy and Marco D'Amico "chatting" at Panera. Doubt they were discussing the food. Just sayin.

They're acquaintances, not really That big of a deal.

Huron, is Richards really a hang out or do they just capitalize on the reputation?

I'm not sure how to answer that. It's their bar, they own that entire building, so...of course they hang out in there all day long, there's always at least one of them in There at all times. Do you mean do They discuss rackets in there, etc? Obviously not.

Nah that answered that question. Didn't realize it was owned by their people. Figured they just hung out there because they associated with the owners. Its actually become quite a hot spot for twenty somethings to drink.

East Bridgeport isn't majority Italian either. It's not an Italian neighborhood. It's just a white neighborhood.

It is still very Italian. And you get that "social club on every other corner/young dago running down the street with a stolen microwave" vibe. Again, much less prevalent than it was decades ago.

Huron, Can I ask you a question now that we've moved past 'The Patch' Debate which was a term used obviously in both areas by people living there:
Why are you on a mission to promote The Grand Ave Crew?

What rackets are you talking about being run in the Grand Ave area besides a big poker game that happens independently. Why is it so important to you to continually try and promote something that really doesn't exist there anymore?

A few Grand Ave guys hanging out is not a full functioning Street Crew like years ago.

I Believe Skinny, the New York Poster asked this same question.

Also, why would you be afraid to name a couple of names. That's ALL WE EVER DO on these Blogs and it doesn't mean anything. Do you think by mentioning someone's name that the F.B.I. is going to hall the guy in and prosecute him because you mentioned his name on a Blog? LOL.

What young men are you talking about?
Are you saying there are a bunch of young men who are made guys in the Grand Ave Crew that are sons of other people?

uh oh here comes another argument

Lol yes, another argument NOT instigated by me.

Never have I "promoted" the gac. They were brought up by other users, questions were asked, etc. They're popular amongst younger people Because of the territory that they occupy (young yuppie Neighborhood, etc).

Fine, they're 100% inactive, control no street rackets, have no clout, are basically made up of a few old geezers & 1-2 of their shit head nephews, and the most action AV has come across over the last 20 years is jerking off in the bathroom at mart Anthony's, while Porky guards the door. Happy?

What kind of an idiotic answer is that? Myself and a couple other posters want to know what evidence you have that the Grand Ave Crew is active in the street rackets? Why are you taking it personal?
You said there were younger men who were sons of older Outfit guys in the Grand Ave crew. Well, who are they and what rackets are you talking about? It's just a question, not an argument. I say the Grand Ave Crew was basically deactivated because they retreated with Lombardo. They may be involved in some white collar stuff. There aren't very many of them left anyway. No need to take it personal.

No nose have you ever even been to Bridgeport? Just wondering

I am in Bridgeport all the time and I hate to break it to you but there are at least as many whites of Polish and Lithuanian descent as there are Italian. The stereotype is still hat it's "Irish" but they've been gone forever.

The dominant ethnicity in East Bridgeport these days is actually probably Chinese.

I'm not saying it's fully Italian there! There's obviously some Chinese there with Chinatown next door and a few Polish as well. But to say there's no Italian or Irish there is completely untrue. I was there recently and in like a 5 block span I saw at least 15 Italian and Irish flags.

Statistically the entire are is only 35 percent white. It's also 35 percent Asian. West of Halsted is mostly Mexican which for the most part means the whites and Asians are splitting the eastern side.

I wouldn't guess that overall Bridgeport east of Halsted is more than 10-20 percent people who would self identify as Italian.

But since their all third, fourth generation a lot if not most have probably intermarried anyway.

As far back as 1990 Italians made up only 10 percent:

http://www.uic.edu/orgs/LockZero/tables/T19.htm

I agree with the seperation. Overall Bridgeport isn't majority Italian but in certain areas of Bridgeport Italians are definitely majority.

There are some streets.

To me it still feels Italian because you have extended families living on the same block, social clubs, Italian flags, and statues of the Blessed Mother. Interesting to see if those Italians will stay there over time.

Question for Huron - wasn't there a Grand Ave wedding in the last 10 years or so that had like 500-700 people. Owner of the compound's family. I believe Lombardo was allowed to attend with FBI agents because he was the groom's Godfather. Were EP, Cicero, and Chinatown members invited?

In a 10% italian neighborhood? You dont get any sort of vibe like that in bensonhurst...

The really odd, hard-core, old school, inner city, ethnically homogeneous white neighborhood down there is Canaryville. 5,000 intransigent, insular Irish roughnecks who refuse to move.

Has to be one of the last neighborhoods of its kind in the country. And there is no sign of it changing.

Pal, what am I taking personally? When have I ever promoted/defended/white knighted that crew? And please copy & paste where I stated that the gac is made up of a bunch of sons of bosses/etc, whatever nonsense you were talking about? I said the southside people get their kids involved.

I'm not interested in name dropping guys in their 30s/40s that don't have records yet. Sorry.

I find it hard to believe that a crew of criminals would stop breaking laws

I don't think anybody is strong enough to tell people that they can't eat

if difronzo and company pull back that's on them

it's also on the members their respective crews to feed their family

I'm not buying that you're in Bridgeport all the time. The ONIAC is the largest club of it's kind in the Midwest. The cigar shops, social clubs, delis, etc are littered throughout that neighborhood and you still get the very distinct "Italian organized crime" vibe. Nowhere near what it was in the 70s, but nevertheless.

Huron,

I think you are seeing it through rose colored glasses. You are seeing what you want to see. I couldn't care less. Or maybe you just hang out on one block that you assume the rest of the neighborhood is like.

The fact is that it's likley significantly less than 10 percent Italian. There are a FAIR number of Italian businesses but only someone with an agenda would drive through the neighborhood as a whole and say: 'Old Italian neighborhood.'

1) It is not the norm for any Outfit fathers to want their sons involved, it's the exception.
2) There are a few examples were sons got involved AFTER their father died so he wasn't there to stop them.
3) There are very few made guys left in the Grand Ave Crew. Some young men in their 30's hanging around are not made guys. There may be a few wanna be's who are there to serve Albie if needed for some reason
4) I know Rocky Lombardo, Joey's brother very well.
5) Grand Ave retreated SEVERAL years ago with Elmwood Park.
6) Grand Ave is not a full functioning Street Crew running bookmaking, poker machines or loan sharking. Maybe some white collar being attached to Elmwood Park.
Case closed.

Bobby Dominic operates Richard's Bar. He is the short guy with the mustache always hanging out in the back room. Dominic was sent to Vegas by Ferriola to take over for Spilotro in the mid 1980s. He came back to Chicago around 2000 and started running Richard's Bar.

Chicago...can I ask who your CURRENT sources on the Outfit are? No offense, but your info seems rather outdated.

Joe Ferriola didn't send anybody to Las Vegas because he was never the Top Boss of the Outfit. the Two Top Bosses in the mid 1980's were Carlisi & DiFronzo. You should know this by now because you used to read it on Fosco's blogs. I remember seeing your name. I think you are a boxer. Am I correct? I think you also have a grandfather who lives down in the far South Suburbs. Am I correct?

Rocky Lombardo and the F.B.I. Reports among others. Why? Who are your sources? How is the information outdated?

Please don't tell me you're another Grand Ave Fanboy who's mission in life is to prove that the Grand Ave Crew never retreated and that they are a full operating Street Crew.

Okay, I'll ask you the same fucking questions that were never answered by the other guy.

What Rackets do they run? Name all the made guys running the rackets. What is the structure of the Grand Ave crew? Did they never retreat? Why would Elmwood Park Retreat and not them?
Why are Rocky Lombardo and the F.B.I. wrong?

Lastly, Joe Ferriola was never the Top Boss of the Outfit and never sent anybody to LAS VEGAS.

Stick to Boxing.

From running Vegas to running Richard's Bar.

Boxer? No idea what you are talking about my friend...you haven't seen me on Fosco's blogs because I don't really have an interest to comment there. My grandfather has long since passed as well.

You are close to Rocco Lombardo? I have not seen him since Nucci's funeral years ago. Are you aware of who Nucci was? Where is Rocco living now?

I don't really claim to know the structure of the GAC. I'm simply a local guy who still likes to gamble and therefore have known many of these guys for decades

how about Nicky Stu Cazz , Johnny Capiccolla and Sammy Sta Minchia? You know them too ? Lol

If you knew Rocco, you would know who Nucci was (or could ask him).

Bobby Dominic may have been sent to Vegas but make no mistake he was at the beckoned call of Don Angelini who was REALLY who Carlisi/DiFronzo sent there after Spilotro. Angelini was considered to be one of the great gentlemen in the history of the Outfit and was not AT ALL muscle but was a BRILLIANT man with a mind for numbers -- quite the contrary of the man he replaced out there in Vegas.

His info is very outdated, you hit the nail on the head. Rocco Lombardo is a nobody, and no one would ever tell him anything of any significance. He might hear a few tidbits here & there, etc.

Bobby Dominic owns the casino that was made famous during the Natalie Holloway disappearance. His front is a jew by the name of Mike posner.

No one is trying to trump up the grand avenue crew, calm the fuck down.

And lastly (lol) Bridgeport definitely still gives off that vibe. I can't seem to understand why you're so deadset on refuting that. It's Not a big deal.

Case closed LOL

They wouldn't tell Rocco Lombardo anything, but THEY WOULD TELL YOU, RIGHT??? ..Yes Posner runs that Casino in Aruba where Natalie Holloway disappeared and was known in the 80's as someone who belonged to Joe Nagall.. I DO AGREE with you about Bridgeport though and it's "vibe". It may be 70% Mexicans now but to an extent Melrose Park still has that same vibe as well.

Huron,
Rocky Lombardo is Joey's brother. Bobby Dominic doesn't own any Casino. Stop the GROSS EXAGGERATIONS. You should work for Chuck Goudie, the newsman sensationalist. Posner is connected to ELMWOOD PARK. Just because Dominic talked to him years ago doesn't mean Dominic owns the fucking Casino. LOL.

Grand Ave retreated years ago with Elmwood Park.
If you're saying they CAME OUT OF RETREATMENT, then for the third fucking time Put up or Shut up.

Who are the made guys in Grand Ave?
What rackets do they run?
When did they supposedly come out of retreatment?
What is the power structure of Grand Ave if YOU SAY they are out of retirement?

Put up or shut up.

Bobby Dominic "owns" that casino & others with partners, posner is a jew grand avenue crew lackey/front, who's done business with a few people from elmwood park. The bartender joke was funny, but the man enjoys spending time with his friends in the bar that he owns in his neighborhood.

I explained that I wouldn't get into that kind of stuff. Grand avenue never went into a retreatment, that didn't happen. Elmwood park probably did, but it's unlikely that every individual from that crew was completely shelved. I'm not too familiar with the elmwood park people though, and I wont pretend like I am.

And your source is Rocco lombardo? The Kung fu/karate/whatever the hell instructor?

Rocky Lombardo is not only one. The reason I mentioned him is because I've known him for years and he belonged to his Brother, Joey Lombardo.

I would take his word, another made guy's word who is with Elmwood Park and the F.B.I'S word over Bobby Dominic any day of the week and 3 times on Sunday.

If you HEARD Bobby Dominic owns a piece of some casinos, you heard a bunch of Bar Gossip. If Bobby Dominic TOLD you he owns a piece of some casinos with DiFronzo ( Because that's who it would HAVE TO BE), then I have some swamp land I own in Melrose Park I would like to sell to you.

Posner, the Jew, belongs to Elmwood Park. He is an Associate of DiFronzo, Marco etc., not Bobby Dominic. Bobby Dominic is not anywhere near the level of DiFronzo etc. Marco is the one who goes to Aruba for Elmwood Park on occasion.
Google Marco D'Amico Aruba and you will see it. HE IS A REGISTRANT.

Why do want to argue with me about this shit? Bobby Dominic isn't even in the same Zip Code with DiFronzo Brothers or Marco D'Amico. Will you stop with this Boby Dominic shit. LOL.

You should talk less and listen more and you might accidently learn a few things. I am not trying to offend you, but I can't let bullshit go by me. I'm sorry, it's my nature.

lol this Chicago guy expects us all to take his word on "who he is" and is asking me to "put up or shut up." lol well here is one of the fellas I see regularly at the Grotto in Oakbrook when having cigars on the deck.



You couldn't identify Nucci, who if you were close to Rocky, he would certainly be able to identify (Nucci was the brother closest to Rocco essentially his idol).

Chicago your turn Post a few old pics of your father or his associates, otherwise it's just your word. Otherwise you are really just an Elmwood Park fanboy who hates Grand Avenue for some odd reason. I have no idea what the fuck their structure is (nor do you with any active crews right now) but I can tell you that the boys on Grand Ave really haven't "retreated" anywhere. They still take bets out of all their joints up and down Grand Ave and hang out regularly in their social clubs. Christy Spina rides his motorcycle around the neighborhood and holds court frequently.

Chitown, common knowledge amongst many people that Marco goes to the Grotto. What's your point? Why would you post a pic like that if you didn't have the need for attention? Everybody knows he smokes his stogies on that deck and you or any of hundreds of people could have taken that pic in the last several years

Well so far you have a photo from my end (a lot more where that came from too )...and just Chicago's word about his father.

So how does a pic that you or someone else took of Marco on a deck in Oak Brook make you an authority on Grand Avenue or anything else associated with the Outfit???? I don't doubt that you know some people and have some knowledge but what does posting that pic prove??? I could take a pic and post it of Johnny coming out of Dunkin Donuts on Grand and Harlem with his coffee in one hand and his toothpick in the other what would that prove?? That I happened to see him and know who he is?? It wouldn't mean I know shit other than I know WHO he was...

I think we both know you have ZERO grounds for calling ANYONE a fanboy, ChiTown (Fratto). You're the worst of them all. And don't start with the picture posting nonsense. It's never given you a lick of credibility and it never will.

Chicago is among the most respected members on this board. If anything, he has proven himself and you just fanboying the grand ave crew.

I think ChiTown accused him of being a fanboy of Elmwood Park. Which is strange considering Chicago has been saying Elmwood Park retreated a long time ago.

Bottom line, until further info comes forth, all we have is a few pieces of the puzzle given by comments of FBI officials in recent years. But what Chicago describes seems to match up with those comments - the Outfit being down to two or three crews, run in northern and southern sections, etc.

Fratto who? On the subject of active guys, yes there are Italian criminals in Chicago. Ivy you can never just believe someone cause they argee with the stat quo chicago is a great poster who contributes a great deal of good info but (not saying he did) a lot of posts seem copied and pasted from the comments section of ANP. BTW when it comes to something I can verify on my own your the best poster hands down. Hairy, Skinny, PB, Cheech, Carmela, and a few others I can't think of now thanks for keeping the boards decent and yall seem to be the last of the mochians. Sorry for the rant.

P.S. Nicky Eyes there is no such thing as a law abiding Italian American in Chicago their all part of the outfit.

That's the name ChiTown went by on the RD forum years ago. Different names, same BS.

I've always wondered why you think you speak for so many different people on these forums. Sorry Bud but pics like these draw just as many people to these boards as your recycled copy/paste information you find from your PC there in Utah.



How about you just ignore my posts and stop butting into other people's beefs?

26th = Aldo, Shorty's adopted son

Cicero = Dino Marino, Louie's kid

(Gary Gags is Joe Gag's nephew)

Richards was owned by Bobby Dominic's family. Albie hangs out there. A lot of guys hang out there.

Is that Grand/Milwaukee middle of the block?

It's at the three way intersection @ grand, halsted, & Milwaukee, across from the old como inn.

Chitown is one of the only level headed members of this forum at this point. I enjoy your photo contributions, ChiTown. You always have a good attitude & obviously discuss things logically & from an educated point of view. Don't let these knuckleheads discourage you from posting here.

I just love to talk about the neighborhood and I get the impression you do too. I don't really let out of towners bother me.

The Como Inn brings back a lot of fond memories...I once met Bobby Hall there. By far the best place to eat in the neighborhood and arguably the best Italian in the city up until that point. I always wonder what the Marchetti family is doing these days.

There are a ton of defunct Outfit related restaurants I would have loved to seen. Namely the Vila Venice, Sicily and going way back Colisimo's, the Circus Cafe and the Bella Napoli.

From the old days the only one really left that I know of is the Green Mill. Klas has a "Capone room" and claims he went there often.

I keep trying to stop by Mama Luna's on Belmont but it's closed every time I go. That's where Harry Aleman assisinated Anthony Reitinger.

There are still some current ones too...Orso's in Old Town was owned by Frank Milito and his sons still run it. Gennaro's in Taylor Street is a favorite. Bella Notte on Grand is Bobby Bellavia's place and his daughter runs it. La Scarola was supposedly owned by the GAC. The Salamone brothers (family that owned Gianotti's in Norridge) still own a few places...the famous Wrigleyville Bacci's Pizza being one of them.

Interesting. I didn't know about all of those!

I know Lombardo used to hang out La Scarola and they have the article about it in the bathroom, LOL. Never knew they were suspected owners. John Kass confronted him there once and he just got his stuff to go and left without saying anything.

Calabrese Jr. had his hand in a few that are still open as well, but I guess that doesn't really count.

If you go into Richard's on a random weekday and see a few Italian guys sitting at the bar typing on blackberries then you can tell they are bookies. When you see waiters from La Scarola walk down the street and into Richard's with plates of food for these guys and not charge them anything, you can tell they aren't your average customers.

SC: Can we give the Chicago guys ONE thread and make em stick to it?

Gangsterbb outfit IS global!

Why? Two is too many?

There's like six new York threads.

I think that'd be unfair to the guys who like talking about the Chicago Mob. We have many different threads for the other areas of interest in the Real Life forum and the Chicago guys should have the same "rights" as the others.

If you don't like reading about the Outfit, skip the thread.

Was being facetious. I get 'dry' on occasion.

If it helps I amuse myself.

Carry on all!

I used to do that. Then I started going blind.

A mile away.

As the words hit the keyboard I knew it was a mistake.

shave your palms Sonny you'll be fine..:) lol Chicago's a happening place with a rich gangster culture even if some posters want us all to believe its still 1977 lol

Kass confronted him @ bella notte

Ah you are right! My bad.

A great bar. i knew I liked it when half the walls are covered in Mafia articles and a huge poster of Goodfellas.

And the only bar in the city of Chicago where you can still smoke inside. Ha! 50 cent Deviled Eggs too.

I've noticed that too.

But, people still smoke at some places in Chinatown as well.

The best part about Richard's Bar is the homemade Frank Stallone CD in the jukebox.

Bella Notte Restaurant on Grand Avenue - good eats! They bring out warm focaccia to your table as soon as you sit down. Very good place and the food was terrific! Highly recommend it.

http://www.bellanottechicago.com/index.php

Pictures of Richard's Bar doesn't prove that the Grand Avenue Crew is a full functioning organization like it was in the past.

All of the Street Crews in Chicago were like small families in the past who were partnered with the Dominant Family.
The Grand Avenue Crew does not have a Boss anymore.
There are only maybe two made guys left and they answer to Elmwood Park.

I highly doubt anyone is taking bets in Richard's Bar.
Bookmaking operations on a big scale don't operate that way.

Bridgeport isn't like it use to be(italians). It's mostly Spanish now

Phils pizza in bridgeport is the best pizza in Chicago

Anybody know why James Marcello was moved to supermax?

sucks for him !

Interesting. Maybe he was just being held at MCC until he appeal was heard.

Not quite, but not too far off. West of Halsted it's mostly Spanish, east of Halsted its white and Asian. Think it's about 33 percent Spanish, 33 percent Asian and and 33 percent white, almost evenly split.

Not sure how true it is but I read somewhere that the feds sent him farther away as a head game. Visitors wouldn't have convenient access to him if he was farther way and they knew he would be furious about the relocation. Again - not sure if this is 100% accurate but I remember reading about it...

Wouldn't surprise me. Ha, well, good for them. F**k him. He can think about all the people he killed.

Yeah I can't Mike Marcello flipped, that's gotta be a sign, having the bosses brother flip.

Mark how ya been buddy?

Did he flip or just plead guilty? I don't remember him testifying to anything.

He testifed that Ambose gave info to someone who in turn gave it to Matassa who gave it to mike marcello

Good! How goes it, SG? Day off of work and I ain't doing much! How about you?

Oh yeah. I think he was already caught though. I doubt his brother was even upset about that.

When these guys get caught redhanded they have to plead guilty and cop to what they did.

At work brother, but the days going well wish it wasn't raining.

Good day for a get a away day to go to Wrigley... just sayin'
The rain will stop - eventually.

Hell yeah sounds good, if only I was Da Boss

Whoever posted that pic took it from Marco's daughters FB page what a dork!

Where you from Windy City?

Wrigley? That's a waste of money until they put some talent on the field.