Gotti's rise: Abnormally fast?

Between 1976 and 1986, John Gotti went from being an Unmade Associate, to a Soldier*, to a Capo, and finally to a Boss, all in the space of ten years, between the ages of 36 and 46. Is that a usual pace or was Gotti's rise abnormally rapid for the Mafia?

*= It seems also that he actually SKIPPED being a Soldier and went directly to being a Capo upon being made in 1977.

Neil had alot to do with that,he said many times that John was like his son.John was a associate in the last 50's early 60's.

Very fast. Killing a boss and getting away with it will do that.

massino was underboss in 83,84 and was younger the gotti.

Even before that though, Gotti went straight from Associate to Capo upon being made, and after doing 4 years in prison no less. I mean he's in jail off the streets from '73 to '77, comes out, is made, and becomes Capo automatically upon being made. I'd think one would usually be a Soldier for a time before being bumpede up to Caporegime.

I don't care about Gotti let alone his haters, they (probably) didn't know Johnny. Cos had they known him, they'd know that he could sell ice to an Eskimo I know bad example. Big Paulie was a vampire he came with threats like Sonny Franzese. Gotti appealed to your greed see the video cut that I put up. Remember when the cash goes the whore goes along with your best friend.

Gotti rose fast because of Carmine Fatico and Neil. When Fatico was in jail or dealing with trials in the 70's he made Gotti acting capo of teh bergin crew even though he had not been made. because of This Gotti reported to Neil and went Neil went to jail Gotti actually reported to Carlo for a short time. The McBratney hit im sure helped move him along faster even though it was a very sloppy hit. Without Neil i doubt Gotti would have even been made

Both rose fast riding on the coattails of powerful old time wiseguys in the family. I know Massino was a power by the early 1980's despite only being made in 1977. Where did you read that he was underboss in 1983?

Johnny was promoted to acting capo even though he wasn't made in 1972
In 1973 him and his whole crew, guys like tony roach, Willie boy, mark caputo, gene gotti, the Carneglia brothers and angie all benefited from waking out mcbratney

In 1977 he got made
and was made Capone at the same time
Btw te ceremony was held up for him to come home

A lot of people thought he was going to be the boss

In 1979 dileionardo aka Mikey Scars had a meet at his fathers house, that was attended by many heavy weights and Paul zacarria pointed at gotti and said "there goes the next boss of our family"

Right on the money,JCrusher. Gotti's rise would have been a fluke for any Mob guy. He was in the right place at the right time on several occasions.Had he hooked up with a different crew,he might not have had the day to day interaction with Dellacroce that he did.
There were a few events that all came together in a perfect storm to aid in his ascension.If Neil had lived another two years,I doubt that Gotti would ever have been Boss.

drug case or no drug case , tapes or no tapes gotti was going too make a move to be boss after neil dies, he was making these moves for years.. close to frank loc, bronx,,, frank decico,bklyn.... piney, manhattan.. gotti's had queens..

Bronx JACKPOT!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BPrF_0Bg6iY 1:08
Scarfo who hated sports had a poster of a baseball field, he told everyone even if you hit a home run you still have to touch all the bases or it don't count. So everybody must check in or fuddagetboitit! Gotti was no different then Nicky.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZ3gM4lu0cY 1:34
There's a lot of jealousy among the guys at the top cos they know that there's no union to hold their job if you don't make money.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=685cicsqzrI 1:35
This is the result when a young alpha lion enters then den who is bigger earner.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPJ9WsQhpMw

Gotti born in 1940, he was involved in street gangs associated with New York mafiosi from the age of 12.When he was 14, he was attempting to steal a cement mixer from a construction site when it fell, crushing his toes; this injury left him with a permanent limp.After leaving school he devoted himself to working with the mafia-associated Fulton-Rockaway Boys gang, where he met and befriended fellow future Gambino mobsters Angelo Ruggiero and Wilfred "Willie Boy" Johnson.
Gotti's criminal career began when he became an associate of Carmine Fatico, a capo in what became the Gambino family.
Together with his brother Gene and Ruggiero, Gotti carried out truck hijackings at Idlewild Airport (subsequently renamed John F. Kennedy International AirportIt was also around this time that Gotti met Gambino underboss Aniello "Neil" Dellacroce.
In February 1968, United Airlines employees identified Gotti as the man who had signed for stolen merchandise; the FBI arrested him for the United hijacking soon after. Two months later, while out on bail, Gotti was arrested a third time for hijacking—this time for stealing a load of cigarettes worth $50,000, on the New Jersey Turnpike. Later that year, Gotti pleaded guilty to the Northwest Airlines hijacking and was sentenced to three years at Lewisburg Federal Penitentiary.
Prosecutors dropped the charges for the cigarette hijacking. Gotti also pleaded guilty to the United hijacking and spent less than three years at Lewisburg.
Gotti and Ruggiero were paroled in 1972 and returned to their old crew at the Bergin Hunt and Fish Club, still working under caporegime Carmine Fatico. Gotti was transferred to management of the Bergin crew's illegal gambling, where he proved himself to be an effective enforcer.Fatico was indicted on loansharking charges in 1972. As a condition of his release, he could not associate with known felons. Although Gotti was not yet a made man in the Mafia due to the membership books having been closed since 1957, Fatico named Gotti the acting capo of the Bergin Crew soon after Gotti was paroled.In his new role, he frequently traveled to Dellacroce's headquarters at the Ravenite Social Club to brief the underboss on the crew's activities. Dellacroce had already taken a liking to Gotti, and the two became even closer during this time. The two were very similar—both had strong violent streaks, cursed a lot and were heavy gamblers.
In 1973, after Carlo Gambino's nephew Emanuel Gambino was kidnapped and murdered, John Gotti was assigned to the hit team alongside Ruggiero and Ralph Galione for the main suspect, Irish-American gangster James McBratney.[13] The team botched their attempt to abduct McBratney at a Staten Island bar, and Galione shot McBratney dead when his accomplices managed to restrain him. Identified by eyewitnesses and a police Bergin insider, Gotti was arrested for the killing in June 1974.[21] With the help of attorney Roy Cohn, however, he was able to strike a plea bargain and received a four-year sentence for attempted manslaughter for his part in the hit.[5]
After his death Gotti was also identified by Joseph Massino as the killer of Vito Borelli, a Gambino associate killed in 1975 for insulting Paul Castellano.
Gotti was released in July 1977 after two years imprisonment. He was subsequently initiated into the Gambino family, now under the command of Paul Castellano, and immediately promoted to replace Fatico as Capo of the Bergin crew.He and his crew reported directly to Dellacroce as part of the concessions given by Castellano to keep Dellacroce as underboss,and Gotti was regarded as Dellacroce's protégé.
Under Gotti, the Bergin crew were the biggest earners of Dellacroce's crews.Besides his cut of his subordinates' earnings, Gotti ran his own loan sharking operation and held a no-show job as a plumbing supply salesman.Unconfirmed allegations by FBI informants in the Bergin Hunt and Fish Club claimed Gotti also financed drug deals.

Gotti was lucky to be the protege of Carmine Fatico and Neil dellacroce, we was and associate fron all the 50s and 60s,became acting capo even is not made to the Fatico crew,became carmien was sentenced.In 1974 kill James McBratney that kidnapped and killed Gambino's nephew,was a protegè also of Dellacroce that save him when he order to kill Ralph Galione,a made man addicted to drug.Was arrested in 1974,when came out of prison in 1977 he was made a Gambino soldier and soonm after a captain of the dellacroce's crew.Neil vwas the underboss and cover Gotti because his crew has the most profitable of the neil's crews. But Gotti deals drugs.Castellano that was most a bussiness man that a mafia boss want to kill Gotti,but Neil save again him.When Neil Dellacroce die in 1985.Infuriated by the Castellano's refusal to attend Dellacroce's wake.And Gotti knew that Castellano order to whack DeMeo even Castellano take a share of the money from the Demeo's crew drug dealing;decide to whack Castellano and Bilotti.
Gotti had more fortune to has a protegè of fatico and Dellacroce,or he was whacked time ago,and maybe for the Gambinos will be a best thing.

Gotti wasn't the youngest gangster, to become boss:

Carmine Persico boss of the Colombos in 1973 at the age of 40
Joseph Colombo same thing at the age of 41
Raymond Patriarca boss of the same name family at the age of 44
Joey Merlino had 33 in 1995 when take the Philly Mob
John T. Scalish was 32 when became boss of the Cleveland Mafia
Vito Rizzuto had a forty age when became boss of hid family.

Gotti was basically already recognised as a made member before he officially became one when the books were re-opened. In fact, he was put in charge of the crew he was with by his capo when he was still an associate. That is why he became a capo overnight when he was inducted.

Natale was a guy who went from being unmade to boss in one swoop. Gotti was acting capo but the books were closed at that time. When he was made, he was immediately capo. Natale was away doing 15 and wasn't made when he went in. When he got out he was made in a ceremony and he was also made boss at that same time.
I wonder how that ceremony went. That is, if you beleive he was even boss to begin with or just joe jerk off.

Wasnt natale made by joey merlino who was just a soldier at the time?

Details are fuzzy but I believe Natale got out when Stanfa was under indictment and at that point the Merlino faction had taken ostensible control. So at that point Merlino made Natale. But the mob in philly was in tatters at that point and even Merlino and Natale never truly ruled in an organized fashion.

People say scarfo pretty much destoyed the family during his destructive regime which he did to an extent, but i think the credit for the families small and weak state that its in now goes to merlino.

One one hand, under Scarfo the family's interests expanded in HEREU Local 54, political corruption (Matthews), imposition of the street tax, etc. On the other hand, that stuff went out the window by the early 1990's and the family was weakened by so much internal strife, which led to so many rats. At one point it seemed you had the Stanfa and Merlino crews basically fighting over who got to shake down what in South Philadelphia.

No disrespect ivy i just cant tell if your tryin to disagree with me bc it seems that info gos along with what i said.

the only reason gotti wasn't made faster is because the books were closed

he was a captain before he was even made

so he didn't rise abnormally fast

No, I generally agree with you. At least in the over all effect of Scarfo's time as boss. Just pointing out that he was successful, at least for a time, in some respects.

Was that the only time Philly was involved in white collar crimes like unions? Seems like philly has always been just blue collar.

Specifically in reference to unions, I think there was some ties to the Roofers Union prior to Scarfo. And there was involvement with the HEREU Local 54 previously. But the real power through the union came after casino gambling was legalized in Atlantic City.

The family under bruno when it was arguably at the height of its power was involved in labor ractering in ac as well as philly but the family was a lot more heavly involved in traditional blue collar rackets like loan sharking gambling and extortion during his rule.

Ah you beat me to it ivy and answered it a little better than i did lol.

IVY this time I gotta go the other way, Scarfo was 24/7 all the concrete and steel that went into AC was his doing thats why the chin made him boss of Philly. Scarfo's problem was that backstabbin chuckie Narducci who wanted to blame the Irish for Testa. Oh yeah start a war with Irish, kill one Irishman what are they gonna do about it. What Chuckie didn't realise was that the Irish sat on the most of the government building projects like the old age retirement homes that were built in AC and Philly becos of them Irish many Italian constructions firms had work building them old age homes. SO imo the problem was with harry riccobene and chuckie.

Regards Paul Castellano and John Gotti.

John was a basic guy. Gambling and shy. Crew moving H.
Maybe in the 40's and 50's thats high end but the mob had moved on (unions, white collar etc). John was dated.

Paul Castellano was big picture, white collar mafia. If he was West Side he'd prob be part (still) of the ruling panel (age excluded, you get my point).

Now both play a part, always have and always will. But its a completely different game. And very different levels.

Paul was 1980's mafia. John was 1950's.

Both made mistakes but Paul under the Chin? He'd still be there whereas John was always done. No matter the circumstance.

In my humble opinion.

Sonny, The only future for the Italian American Mafia is to set it up somehow through strictly White Collar activity.
The way to do it would be to have like some kind of Parent Company (Dominent Crew) that would own a piece of many more companies. Each Company would be run by at least 2 other guys (made men) doing all different kinds of things like real estate, construction, garbage hauling, loan centers and other things connected to the City or suburbs where you can get big money contracts, pay no taxes and have very little risk of going to jail.
I think that's what Castellano from New York wanted to do. He was actually ahead of his time.
Gotti was the complete opposite.
Who knows, maybe that's exactly what DiFronzo has done and he's doing it on a much biggerer scale than we realize.

I can tell you honestly. I have never seen the Outfit so divided in my life.

The Southern Group wants it to be like the 1970's again. The Northern Group doesn't want to have anything to do with the 1970's ever again. It's very interesting to observe it.

There is no future in Bookmaking, Poker machines and Loan sharking in my opinion. None whatsoever.

Here what you're saying and I generally agree.
But not without exclusion.

There will always (as long as gambling is outlawed) be a place for bookies and hence Shy's.

But youre right about percentages. Thats a fixture, but will only be a minority portion.

Throw some extortion in regards porn, the odd feast and thats pretty much the blue collar quota.

So overall you're right. With a few tweaks