Most power boss today?

Who is the most powerfully boss today out of the 10 or so crime families.

Whoever is running the top family in the country - the Genovese family. But that could be a ruling panel at the moment. Though one could argue that one of the official bosses of the other families could be it. Sort of the way Massino was the top boss at one point because he was the only official boss left on the street after Gotti, Chin, Amuso, and Persico were behind bars.

The top official boss has to be Cefalu followed by Crea. I douht we will find out who the westside boss is for donkey years, I hope its Barney, hes the perfect age to be boss.

John DiFronzo of the Outfit. He is immune from Prosecution, has converted the Outfit into a streamlined white collar organization, is worth tens of millions, and has tremendous political white collar power in Chicago and the west suburbs. Case Closed.

Lol. Location: Elmwood Park.

I'm not sure if Montreal counts in this thread...

but based on everything I have read I would think Vito is hands down when it comes to political connections, wealth, international juice, etc...and hes never been touched really by law enforcement there

Keep dreaming. There are guys in New York way more stacked, DiFronzo is rich and powerful don't get me wrong but compared to guys like Barney, Crea or Allie shades? Not even close

Vito had 20 made guys at the families peak, half of them got whacked out. If he was so powerful that would never have happened.

In 20 yrs you will find out who runs the westside, then 5 years later it will come out that it was someone else.... Opinions will turn into fact, and most will be drawn to the wrong conclusions. Even if i wanted to i doubt i could explain what im trying to say here. Everyone knows whos number one on the street but does he the point guard or the coach? Thats why i always say Danny Leo was A acting boss, not The Acting boss. You really think 30 captains are gonna go kiss the ring at raos every two weeks?

Joe Schmo, Those 3 guys must have cracked open very large parking meters.

Don't be jealous, my friend. One day you too might figure out how to crack open a parking meter. Maybe.

If you really think top New York guys don't have money you're certifiably insane

+1 skin

John DiFronzo is not even in the top 10. Elmwood, can you post any evidence whatsoever that the nose and the outfit has that kind of power?

this

Is difronzo retired?

Not this. Not true at all there's plenty of evidence

Nicky grow a fucking pair already

And where might I find this "plenty of evidence"?

Judging from indictments, either Chicago finally found the mafia holy grail (ie the secert method of avoiding FBI interference) or they aren't a very big family any more/gone mostly legit or semi-legit.

good for them legit money is the best money. lets not forget that they had to kill steal and cheat to get there so im sure the rep stays with them. bet theres a million buttons beggin to do a hit still. it never ends.

All the legit things restaurants, car dealerships, construction companies, food lines, and things like that. Then all the other money from illegitimate things. He's probably behind the top 3 NYC guys but other than that no. I find it hard to believe that there's tons of guys in NYC worth over 30 million dollars. And skinny please just fuck off.

Difronzo is el capo de tutti capi. He controls the commission.

So it coming down to Barney or Crea ? Difronzo is so low key but what happen to he maybe a rat talk that have be said by a few people

why do u take 1 scene from a fucking movie of all things to form your arugement against new york families, thats just ignorant

Between the top 2 its not even close.

That was in the movie, in the book Pistone was saying one day your doing 100k scores the next your cracking parking meters so he was just talking about the up and down earning some of of these guys were doing. Whether they were really cracking parking meters, who knows. But hey a score is a score.

"Besides the bookmaking operation, there were all kinds
of scams and schemes around. Little ones and big ones.
These guys might pull off a $100,000 score one day, rob a
parking meter the day after. Anything where there’s a dime
to be ripped off."

Ah i forget it was also in joes book, looks like i was being kinda ignornant, apologies elmwood, but still to compare chicago to new york 30 or 40 years you could make a pretty good argument, but to do so today with 3 or 4 crews with under 30 made guys is pretty laughable despite how many millions difronzo has.

I'm not sure they were actually doing it, i think it's possible Pistone was just trying to explain the up and down earning some of these guys were doing. But like i said, who knows maybe they were, i don't know. But Elmwood really latched on to that parking meter shit, actually pretty funny.

Haha ya i saw him on at least 3 or 4 other threads saying it over and over so i felt like i had to say something, pretty funny the way him and ivy go at it.

It seems to me that a ruling panel (which is essentially a group of acting bosses) has always been in place. And, at certain times, they will have one of them step up as the acting boss to run things day to day. But the ruling panel still has over all power. That appears to have been the case with Leo, who was on the ruling panel before he was identified as acting boss.



All this may be true (though elmwoodpark is fantasizing about DiFronzo being immune from prosecution, etc.) but it's not reflective of his power as an LCN boss. The ultimate power a boss has is based on the strength of organization he's the boss of. And that's why DiFronzo, as rich as he may be personally, is going to be #6 at best. And that's assuming he's still the boss to begin with.

Ivy, I stumbled across this Blog a couple of months ago and was rereading some of the postings and arguments/ bad feelings between a couple of guys from Chicago and a few of the New York guys. First of all, I'd like to say that my Father was killed in 1985 by the Outfit and it practically destroyed my Family. It was horrible. He was shot in the parking lot of a restaurant. I am NOT a fan of the Outfit but know quite a bit about the past. My father was a made man and was direct with Sam Mooney. After Mooney was gone, My father was direct with Auippa and Cerone who were assholes. I do not know about the current state of the Outfit very much, but I have some doubts about Elmwoodparker's statements that the Outfit is all White Collar and legitimate. I doubt it. I think what he's talking about is the fact that a lot of the relatives of some of the older guys are runnug legitimate businesses and use the reputation of certain people to outgain their competition. I don't think it's all tied together into an Organized Crime thing the way you have talked about it in your past postings. I would be glad to intelligently discuss the Outfit of the past which would be from say 1960 to 1990. I'm really not sure about the present. I think it's on it's last leg to be honest. John DiFronzo doesn't care about the Outfit at all. He simply doesn't want to die in prison. I do not wish to divulge my name right now, but maybe later if we get to know each other a little better. Thank You.

First, welcome.

Second, I've said before that there seems to be two parts of the modern day Outfit. The more "white collar" group seems to be the North Side crew. They appear to have more legit (or quasi-legit) interests, at least compared to the Melrose Park and South Side crews who do have some legit interests as well but are more involved in the standard "blue collar" street rackets. And there's been plenty of examples of this, despite elmwood's claim. It's why I've said guys like Marcello and Sarno were running the Outfit much more directly than DiFronzo may have been.

I've also made the point myself about friends and relatives of mob guys, past and present, using what connections they have in their businesses. Is this Outfit-connected? Sometimes. Other times, we just see examples of people who happen to have mob relatives who have assimilated into mainstream, legit society. An problem that has led to a lot of debates about the Outfit on these forums is people extending that "Outfit" circle out too much, even to the point where it seems they tie almost all crime and corruption in Chicago to the Outfit in some way.

Ivy, I agree with you. It does seem the Oufit is divided into two parts. The Southern part would be the 26th St. Crew, Cicero Crew & the Chicago Heights Crew ( I'm not sure if they are actually a crew anymore, during my father's day they most certainly were). The North would be Elmwood Park and Grand Ave. which is basically an extended part of Elmwood Park. The North basically has nothing to do with the South as far as I've seen and heard from others. I don't think there is much of any traditional rackets being run on the North side. The poker machine racket is on the South side. Sarno and Marcello are from the South side. Boy, the Outfit has sure changed from when I was growing up. I would agree that baised upon what you have stated and upon my own personal knowledge, The Outfit has about 10 more years before entire extinction. The New York 5 Families ( as bad of shape they are in) are ahead of the Chicago Outfit because of DiFronzo's pulling back from everything. It's almost like he may be a dry beefer. In other words, he may give information about the South side in order to be left alone. It's possible. He is a very crafty asshole like his mentor, Cerone. It was Carlisi and DiFronzo who carried out the orders from Auippa and Cerone to kill my father in 1985. Auippa and Cerone went to jail in 1986.

For the record, in 2007 the FBI said the Outfit had 4 remaining crews - North Side, Grand Avenue, Cicero, and the South Side. In 2011, one FBI official said the Outfit was "down to 2 or 3 crews." He didn't specify but I've wondered if those would be the the North Side, Cicero, and the South Side. As for DiFronzo, it's certainly interesting that he wasn't charged in the "Family Secrets" case. The feds have said they have two high-level Outfit members who have been giving info for 20-25+ years. I've wondered if DiFronzo and/or Andriacchi is one of them.

hey chicago check your pm's

Yes Ivy, It's possible in 2011, whatever Report you are referring to combined Grand Ave. with Elmwood Park and that's why they said three instead of four. But, you know what, it's really 2, because the North Side really has nothing to do with the South Side. Any new men who were made in the last 10 years came from the South Side. DiFronzo could care less about adding new men. As far as DiFronzo is concerned, The reason why he wasn't charged in the Family Secrets Trial is because (from my humble understanding) they didn't have enough evidence. They couldn't convict him soley on the word of Nick Calabrese. They needed more corroborating evidence. They had more evidence besides the word of Calabrese to convict Marcello and Lombardo. Your thoughts?

I'm Sorry. What does check your pm's mean? I think it means personal messages. How do I check?

Even if we put Family Secrets aside, it's interesting that neither DiFronzo or Andriacchi have been indicted in years.

As for PM's, go up to the "My Stuff" tab above, click on it, and you'll see a drop down menu. Click on "Messages."

The flashing letter at my stuff.

Ivy, it was around 1993 that DiFronzo started to withdraw. That was 20 years ago. It was right after some thing that happened with a San Diego Casino. Do you know what I'm referring to? Anyway, Since that time he has retreated. Also, Marcello and DiFronzo were never close. I remember hearing from one of the guys in the Elmwood Park Group who worked as a collector for Mikey Castaldo, that Elmwood Park (DiFronzo) doesn't want to eat with Cicero (Marcello).This was around 2002. This was right around the time Marcello got out of jail. All the Poker machines were run by Cicero. DiFronzo wanted nothing to do with it. I never saw one poker machine ever in Elmwood Park or any of the surrounding suburbs. They were in Melrose Park and south.

crime in Chicago is second to none in the united states

that really ain't a good comparison with the college football to pro football

Chicago is not ranked in the 25 most dangerous cities (Crime Rate) in the us - http://www.businessinsider.com/the-25-most-dangerous-cities-in-america-2012-10?op=1 A few other cities in Illinois are though. Or the 10 deadliest cities in the Us (Murder Rate). - http://www.policymic.com/articles/22686/america-s-10-deadliest-cities-2012

Flint and Detroit at #1 and #2....lucky Michigan. Must be real bad up there.

http://www.policymic.com/articles/22686/america-s-10-deadliest-cities-2012

If your dad is who I suspect he is, you would be a wealth of information and a welcome addition the board. Welcome aboard.

Who are you talking to lol? Giancarlo, i know what you mean tough break for Michigan. I was personally surprised at how high Little Rock Arkansas is but i'm not from the US of course, i just know it as the city Bill Clinton is from lol.

Sorry, should have clarified that was for Chicago.

here's the city of Chicago's stats broken down more thoroughly

Chicago northside: 1.4 million people (36 murders)

Chicago westside: 476,000 people (156 murders) 32.8 murder rate

Chicago southside: 920,000 people (314 murders) 34.1 murder rate

if the south and west sides were their own cities they'd be 6th & 9th in murder rates

Not quite second to none then. Your right but Chicago is without doubt one of the worst cities for violent crime in the US. No big city really compares to Detroit or Flint though.

Yeah, I'm familiar with the Rincon Indian casino case. If DiFronzo isn't one of those two high-level informants, and really did withdraw, it's strange that he would still be considered the boss for so long after that. Do you have any theories on who those two long time informants may be?

I should add that I do agree about the North Side in general. The last bookmaking bust involving anyone associated with that crew was over a decade ago.

Did the feds actually come out an say they have informants for 20 years just wondering not saying your lying just curious if u have a link or something......thanks ivy

Feds have two top informants inside Chicago mob

http://abclocal.go.com/wls/story?section=news/iteam&id=7446674

Ivy, to answer your question, Yes I do. I believe DiFronzo is a dry beefer. I believe he occasionally gives information to the Feds so they can make their occasional bust in return for retreating from the Outfit. Also, anyone close to DiFronzo (Elmwood Park & Grand Ave.) have been basically shelved from any activity. The men in Elmwood Park have to make money either working directly for the DiFronzo Brothers in their big Construction Company or they have their own legitimate business. Anyone who does otherwise is on their own and the DiFronzo Brothers have nothing to do with them. Rudy Fratto was involved in bid rigging with the McCormick Center. I doubt DiFronzo even knew what Fratto was doing. Why should he lose all his millions and die in jail in order to make a little more money? He is too smart for that. He really isn't the Boss of anything. He's like a retired General who only sees certain people and really has nothing to do with the war anymore. He didn't care if Marcello wanted to be the Boss. I wouldn't be surprised if he even gave the Feds information about Cicero's Poker Machine racket that was being run by Marcello's brother while Little Jimmy was in prison. Right after Marcello got out in 2002, all of sudden the poker machine business had problems. The Marcello Brothers owned the Company that manufactured the Machines, and then they placed them in their area and with the 26th St. Crew. The 26th Street Crew and anyone in the Chicago Heights area was partnered with Cicero. The North Side had really nothing to do with it from my understanding.

that's only one aspect of crime (murders)

Illinois last two governors went to prison so that shows the level of corruption

trust me when I tell you that Chicago is the most corrupt city in the U.S

that's not gloating because our taxes and gasoline prices are bullshit

who do u think is gonna take over after difronzo?

because the southside or westside will shoot if necessary to take over

You didn't say anything about corruption in the comment i responded to, you said crime in chicago is second to none when it isn't even in the top 20 in crime rate. I can agree that it's the most corrupt city, why on earth would you want to gloat about something like that anyway unless i read your last sentence wrong.

corruption is crime......not bashing you

some people think that living in grimey neighborhoods is fashionable

I know that but it still isn't number 1 in violent crime or overall crime.

Cook County, Nobody is going to shoot anybody. DiFronzo is already out of it. He could step back in at any time but he will not do it. The future of the Outfit isn't great. The problem is that NOBODY FEARS the Outfit anymore. When I was growing up in River Forest years ago, The Outfit was extremely powerful and feared. I'm talking about in the 1960's when Cigar (Sam Giancana) was Boss and my father and the rest of Giancana's men pretty much ran the whole city. It is nothing like that anymore. The Outfit is so weak, they are afraid to kill anyone. Outright Beefers like Frank Calabrese Jr. have no fear of the Outfit and walk around free giving interviews! Never would have happened in the past. I predict, going by the standards of what a Crime Family is, as discussed on these Boards, that the Outfit will be pretty much extinct in the next 12 to 15 years. It basically will have had a 100 year run with the peak being in the 1960's and 1970's. I don't mean to upset anyone, but that is my humble opinion and I've seen it all for a long time.

Chicago, I want to tread lightly here in order to avoid another "war of wods" on this topic.
I realize you may be too young to remember some of these things, but what are your thoughts/opinions, or what have you been told about these questions:

- what happened to cause Giancana's downfall?

- why was Cerone so disliked? He had all the traits to be be a very effective gangster, and he worked with the Taylor Sr. Crew. I understand your dislike for him, but apparently some others felt the same way. Did it have something to do with a rivalry bet. Grand Avenue and Taylor Street, or competition bet. Giancana and Accardo? Accardo was fond of Cerone and thought he would make a good boss.

- your thoughts about Accardo?

Thanks in advance for your input.

Gary, 1) Cigar (Giancana) spent too much time away from Chicago. 2) He spent too much time with Phyllis McGuire. 3) He had trouble trusting anybody unless they grew up with him on Taylor St. 4) He viewed Accardo as his opponent rather than a partner.

Cerone was cheap and somewhat unfair with his own men. He one time tried to collect money from the widow of one of his men. When Sam heard about it, He embarrassed Cerone at the Armory Lounge in front of everyone saying out loud " I heard one of my Bosses doesn't make enough money gouging his own men that he has to now collect money from a fucking widow. " Cerone didn't belong to the Taylor St. Crew, He was the Boss of the Elmwood Park crew.

Accardo was a very smart and shrewd guy. He was very well respected across the Board and very close to Paul (Ricca). His relationship with Roemer, the Federal Agent, was a little too close for comfort.

Thanks for the reply.

Pretty much what I've read and almost exactly what was stated to me in a phone conversation with an Outfit historian. For what it's worth, the individual with whom I spoke said that Paul Ricca became upset after both he and Accardo talked to Giancana about McGuire. He specifically mentioned McGuire and his statement about Giancana was that he "wasn't minding the store." One other individual stated that SOME of his men became disenchanted because he was missing meetings, etc.

I had not heard the story about Cerone trying to strong-arm a widow. I am aware that
Cerone did not belong to the Taylor St. Crew; I thought he was with Grand Ave. But my point was that he worked with Buccieri, Torello and others at different times. I believe he was present when William Jackson was dispatched. I was just kinda surprised that he was so disliked but worked with these guys from Giancana's old crew.

Accardo, Ricca and Giancana did a lot of work in the 30's, 40's and 50's. I suppose at some point money, power and ego eventually come into play.

I read Roemer's book, along with every other book published about The Outfit, and there were some errors. I did learn a lot..........about Mr. Roemer! I'm sure he was a a good public servant trying to provide the fine citizens of Chicago with a better quality of life. But his book about Accardo focused too much on Mr. Roemer. Enough said.

I appreciate the response and will probably come back with more questions and comments. I enjoy learning, but have no tolerance for name-calling and volatile comments. Respectful discussions are beneficial and worthwhile, disrespecting individuals and their opinions is not.

Hi Gary, No problem. My father not only belonged to the Taylor St. Crew but was direct with Cigar. The other guys in the Crew were either with Fifi (Bucciere) or Teets (Battaglia). My father was one of Sam's closest confidants. He got killed in 1985. That was a very humbling traumatic experience for me. Have never recovered from it. Perhaps talking a little on these Boards may help me.
As far as Cerone was concerned, He was ORDERED to take part in some heavy work. Sam liked to sometimes give Cerone some work that he knew he wouldn't like doing. He did this because Cerone would go and cry behind his back to Accardo about every little thing. Accardo would then tell Paul who would then discuss it with Sam. Accardo saved Cerone from being killed many, many times.

If one looks at the media reports over the past decade, some have said DiFronzo was the boss, while others have said there was disagreement among mob experts about who was the top guy. However, if what we've been saying is correct, it seems others already have taken over from DiFronzo. Both Marcello and Sarno were acting bosses and seemed to be much more in control of at least the day-to-day affairs of the mob in Chicago. And we have to remember that they didn't necessarily have to be acting for anyone, be it DiFronzo or whoever. They could have been acting simply because the Outfit didn't want to install an official (i.e. permanent) boss. We've seen that in New York in more recent times.



Well, there was Jarrett, Chiaramonti, and Zizzo.

Hi Ivy, Yeh I know, except Jarrett was in 1999 and Chiaramonte was in 2001. Correct me if I'm wrong on those years. That would be 12 and 14 years ago. So, really, in the last 12 years, it's only been Zizzo who disappeared. The confusion among the Mob Watchers is that some of them can't believe DiFronzo retreated. You gotta take my word on this one Ivy, the guy retreated a long time ago. So did Lombardo. And, if you notice, Jarrett (1999) was the 26th St. Crew, Chiaramonti (2001) was Cicero and Zizzo (2006) was Cicero. Nothing to do with the North. Any further thoughts?

Did Andriacchi retreat as well? Or was he more active?

Is there anybody in the Northside that is active? Loans, bookmaking, gambling, etc, etc?

You don't have to sell me on DiFronzo. I largely believe it. And you make a good point about the last known hits being related to the Cicero and 26th Street crews. And those years are correct.

Geez Chicago i think your very well informed on the Outfit and the more you post the more I feel the outfit is becoming extinct.

This is very surprising to me as back in the day i put them close to the Columbo level in terms of strength ( I always had lucchese as a very strong family as I have some distant relatives that were in the family years ago ( Pappadio and Panica's ). It's shocking how far they have fallen but with the lack of arrests , violence and reduction in sharking / booking activities and extortion all but gone , what do they really have left outside of No Nose legit businesses . Geez even if he is a dry beefer , I bet some guys still kiss his ass just to get some scraps and eek out a middle class living .

PP, Yes, Andriacchi retreated several years ago with DiFronzo. So Did Lombardo and Pete DiFronzo. They all retreated together. Andriacchi is in the Construction business just like the DiFronzo Brothers. That's why they call him Joey the Builder. All of these men were born and raised on Grand Ave. The Elmwood Park Crew & The Grand Ave. Crew, for all intents and purposes, have been shelved for several years. Lombardo was convicted in the Family Secrets trial for a murder he committed in 1974. I know Lombardo's brother, Rocky Lombardo, and he has nothing to do with anything anymore. He was working at the Crazy Horse Too in Vegas but that place was closed down. The only trouble Rocky ever had was with the I.R.S.
If there are some people on the North Side active in Street Bookmaking, they are doing it on their own or they are independants doing it not partnering with a big powerful syndicate like years ago. Same with Loan sharking. Loan Sharking is even more risky. The minute a collector from the Outfit would lean on someone, they would run to the F.B.I. and get wired. The next time they tried it, the Feds would swoop in to make their case.

ain't D'Amico a gambling guy that's from the northside?

DB, I don't mean to seem too pessimistic, but I do not see a bright future for the Oufit. The one guy who could have rallied the troops, made more men and helped the Outfit was Jimmy Marcello. He lost several million. But with him in jail, Sarno gone, the retreatment of Elmwood Park and Grand Ave., I don't see a bright future. Plus that, it seems like the Feds know everything they do.
Yes, back in the old days, The Outfit had 3 times the manpower and they all marched to the tune of the same drummer. Sure, it could be argued that the Oufit was pretty much on an equal par years ago with at least 3 of the New York Families. No question. They practically owned the City of Chicago. Legitimate business seems the only survival along with Union activity. I don't see any future with Poker Machines, Traditional Bookmaking or traditional Loan Sharking.
However, Loan Sharking can be done legitimately through loan Centers. The interest Rates are much lower, but you can make money in it. You can also make a lot of money in Construction and getting servicing Contracts from the City and the suburbs. But that is basically all legit with some White Collar Crime attached to it. At that point, then you are really not a Mafioso anymore but instead a good cunning business man. That's really where the future lies. You know what I mean?
you're ABSOLUTELY right about some asskissing that goes on toward DiFronzo. The North Side guys kiss his ass and the South Side guys resent him and and PRIVATLEY question the dry beefing that might be going on.

Yes, Marco D'Amico is in the Elmwood Park crew. However, he is involved in off shore gambling that is legit. He also is worth several million and owns a lot of land. He is not involved in Street Bookmaking, Loan Sharking or Poker Machines. He went to jail in 1995 and was in prison for 10 years. He retreated in 2005 and is basically legit with the DiFronzo's.

Thanks for the posts, Chicago. You are the most interesting new poster in quite some time

I've seen some others post this before about DiFronzo, D'Amico, etc. having interests in legitimate offshore gambling. Where exactly is this coming from? Are you talking about the Excelsior casino in Aruba?

Yes Ivy, I believe that's the casino. There's some guy out there who's not Italian that is a front. I'm sorry but I forgot his name. He used to be on the North side involved in gambling.

Little Nicky, This story is for you. If and when elmwoodparker ever comes back, he's going to be really upset. His Uncle's name is Joe Lombardi. This guy was a soldier/collector in the Elmwood Park Crew and worked under Willie Messino who was a made guy with Cerone. He and Willie, after they got out of prison in 1977, had a major falling out. Lombardi thought he was equal to Willie. LOL. To make a long story short, Cerone ordered Lombardi to apologize to Willie. Lombardi was the type of guy who would never apologize to anyone and was always right about everything. A real Mr. Know it all. Anyway, Lombardi sent a basket of fruit to Willie to make amends. Willie refused The Basket! Lombardi was now livid. But, there was nothing he could do about it. A soldier/collector cannot have a sit down with his boss( made guy). It would never happen. So, Cerone kept Lombardi in the Crew and put him to work under another made guy. Lombardi had done 7 years from 1970 to 1977 in prison and then in 1998 another 2 years for a Loan Sharking bust in 1993. Lombardi was never made and given his own chance to manage something because Willie BLACKBALLED HIM. Pete DiFronzo didn't like him and thought he was a loud mouthed know it all who was too uncontrollable. Well, from what I read on these boards, like uncle like nephew.

Mike Posner

What?

Responding to Chicago. The front in Aruba

That's exactly how i thought of it. At first he seemed quite credible but then he started spamming the site with Donnie Brasco references lol. At that point i couldn't take him seriously anymore. The death of his credibility came when he attempted to school probably the most knowlegable person on the Sicilian Mafia on the site. In the end he was an expert on the NY,Chicago,Sicilian,Detroit and La families lol.

Elmwood seemed to be quite knowledgeable and spoke (posted) in a manner in which it made me doubt that he was just imagining the entire thing. While I do believe he knew what he was talking about to a certain extent, he just refused to accept any alternatives to his posts and could not get along with anyone who offered differing thoughts and opinions.

Chicago, your info is great and I really enjoy reading your posts. Regarding the sentence in bold, isn't the point of this whole thing to make money? If they are moving into more legitimate things while still having a (somewhat) formalized structure and making money, isn't that just the mob evolving? Getting into more white collar stuff seems preferable than the street rackets from a money-making point of view. Another question is how does the white collar stuff get handed down once guys die? Does the business go to a blood relative (through a will) or does control somehow get transferred to another made guy? Would love to hear your thoughts on that. Thanks.

Elmwood was good on the Old Outfit. Real good. But on the current Outfit he was weak and wanted it to be better than it was because he was competing with the New York Posters for some strange reason. I think if he only stuck to the old Outfit he was in love with and forgot about all that stupid Donnie Brasco nonsense (Believe me, the 5 New York families in 1981 were powerhouses) and stopped competing (The 5 New York Families are presently in 2013 on a definitely higher level than the Oufit) he would have been okay.

baldo, very very good question. That's the whole point. Through natural evolution of things, the legitimate businesses will be run by relatives and there really won't be a neccesity to have an Outfit. The men running Companies will have their own type of networking and they'll work together when it's mutually profitable for both parties much the same way any legitimate network of business interests work together today in the legitimate world. Another Point, the Businesses will not be tranfered after death by a will because they are currently not in the name of the Outfit guys who have retreated. Believe me, John and Pete do not own their big Construction Company on paper. Another relative already LEGALLY owns it.

I guess at that point, when your completely legitimate, you won't need any muscle. You think these heirs to the fortune will continue to engage in white collar crime or is it pretty much on the up and up as far you know? Thanks again.

I stay in the south suburbs....there's a future in poker machines

them mothafuckas are everywhere

why would northsiders kiss difronzo's ass if he won't let them eat?

to quote george anastasia "if the mob doesnt kill anyone is it still the mob?"

Aren't poker machines in Illinois legal now? How has/will this effect the Outfit's interests?

They're legal but some people get illegal ones still to make more money.

they've already made decent money while they were illegal

they own a good amount of companies that manufacture the poker machines

so the establishments that want poker machines buy them from their company

I don't know how the profit of the machines is split since they're legal now

baldo, I would say it's basically legit with white collar crime attached to it through connections with the City and suburbs where some people can be bribed for business.

Poker Machines actually were always legal as long as you did not make a pay out to someone if they won. So, if there was no payout, hardly anyone would ever play the machine. The Poker machine racket in Chicago works like this: 1) Bar owner agrees to do business with the Outfit somewhere on the South side. A couple machines are placed in the establishment. Bar owner agrees to make pay offs to winners but is told to 'get to know the player as much as possible before payouts are made'. 3) Each week a Soldier/Associate collects. He makes sure the machines have not been damaged, does a reading on the machine to verify gross income and winnings. 4) Bar owner receives 50% of net income from the machine.
Again, How long do you think it's going to take before the Feds send in one of their own agents who becomes friendly with the Tavern owner, starts receiving payouts, and then begins building his case. The Bar owner then will be approached by the Feds at a later point and he will become so scared that he will cooperate because he really has NO FEAR of the Outfit. He FEARS the Feds a lot more. The largest number of Informants in these cases are the Street/Associates (Bar owners, street bookies etc.) who easily cooperate with information or they wear a wire. Then, the Feds approach the Soldier/Collector who actually belongs to the Crew. Hopefully they will scare him enough into cooperating enough so they can go after the Made guy or guys & The Crew Boss. Sometimes the Soldier/Associate will cooperate rather than go to prison because there's a good chance the Outfit won't pay his wife any money when he's gone. Plus that, He doesn't fear his superiors the way these guys used to fear them in the old days, especially when he sees guys like Frank Calabrese Jr. & Frank Cullotta walking around untouched. It's all really a sign of weakness on the part of the Outfit if you really stop and think about it.

Again great info Chicago and great points on the legal loan centers which I hope some of these guys got in on as they basically invented the service . As you correctly pointed out rates are lower but high enough to make alot of $ and not too mention the lender might be get some collateral .

Makes alot of sense , as the members become more legit there is no reason to have a formal structure or organization

It just seems like the Outfit has died a slow death in terms of illegal income and violence . Now that's not saying some of these guys don't make alot of $ as you have pointed out but rather the illegal and violence aspects of the outfit is almost gone . I'm not sure why I never put all this together ( I suppose I just thought the outfit would always be powerful ) but your info jives with available public information . It's just shocking to me how quickly this happened. The Feds have definately taking away alot of the mob $ makers in NJ but their bread and butter still goes on every day ( just on a smaller scale ) . Book making , sharking , garbage , construction , union still has activity , it's just quieter . Shoot my neighbor is a bartender at AJs which is a go go in JC and Papa Smurf was there almost every day, I saw him many times and he just got busted as a multi million garbage racketeer , you would never know , just your avg old italian man that liked his young Spanish girls, lol .

Who knows maybe what happened in Chi will happen in NJ soon, I would just be shocked like I am about the Outfit today.

Is DiFronzo going to go down as the man that killed the outfit?

If he would have been active in the past 20 years, do you think the Outfit would be in a different status?

Absolutely. DiFronzo's retreatment, along with Lombardo, Pete DiFronzo & Andriacchi divided the Outfit and hurt it as much as attrition or Federal Rico Prosecutions. It would be like having the all star Quarterback quit because he would rather play golf than risk being injured playing football. And then, a couple other star players on the team quit with him.

yes there is a lot of conjecture that the guy might be a rat, he let the organization dwindle down to a mere shawdow of what it was even 15 or 20 years ago. I doubt he gives two shits about the outfit hes contempt with his millions and as a lot of other peolpe said he only cares about not dying in prison. I think he is going to be responsible for bringing about the extinction of the outfit 20 or 30 years earlier then it would without him