Who was the biggest earner in the mafia?

Who was the biggest earner in the history of the mob? I know mike Franzese was making tens of millions of dollars a month from his gas scam. He says he was making 30 to 40 mil a month. Fat tony Salerno was making up to 50 mil a year off of his gambling operations I believe it was in the 50s. The gambino family was raking in hundreds of millions of dollars in the 50s so there must've been some real heavy earners there. Was there ever any earners in the mob who made just a made just as much money as Franzese or maybe more? Or is Franzese the biggest earner the mafia has ever seen.

Do you guys think that Michael Franzese is still very rich ?

Carmine Lombardozzi was supposed to have been a massive earner as well. I don't have a clue who the biggest was though.

He's probably is still rich. I doubt that the government just took all of his money. That's never happens.

He's filthy Rich
He pays 500 a month in restitution to the govt
He will paying that for his life
Stoll hundreds of millions and he pays it backs at 500 a month
Gotta love the feds

I thought Micheal Franzese paid the $14 million dollars already .

http://www.nysun.com/new-york/dont-buy-into-story-of-mob-terrorist-collaboration/41416/

It's at the bottom of the article about Mikey franseze

Lombardozzi basically printed money for the Gambinos for decades and he made so much that it saved his ass on more than one occasion; first when he messed up on some investments that several top flight guys had made with him and second when his protege, Danny Marino, beat the shit out of an agent at Lombardozzi's pop's funeral.

Fat Tony Salerno was tops on that bogus Forbes list in the 80's for whatever that's worth but he nevertheless made bank with his labor connections and construction.

Who knows how much guys with Cuban casino investments made; Jimmy Alo, Santo Jr., Marcello, Giancana, etc.

In italy,you have/had earners that mob in US never had.

How long was he running this scam?

To many bosses to really make a good estimate.

Personally i think Franzese is full of shit. He wasn't making no 40 mil a month, that money got split up among different guys. I think the feds put a figure of 14 mil he made total and while that number might not be exact i bet it's close.

You think he would be doing his bullshit speeches and hocking those video's he used to sell on the religous cable stations at 3am if he had 50 mil stashed away. I don't doubt he has a few bucks put away but i don't buy the numbers being tossed around. It wasn't his scam, it was the russians who cut the mob in for protection.

They probably lost more than they gained because their success was short-lived over there.

I think you hit the nail on the head, but he might have very well made tens of millions back then. Whether he still has access to all that money...

meyer lansky even though he want made we all know he had one of the most influential roles in mob history. They say when he died he was among one of the richest men on earth and you have to remember he never got prosecuted and got his money tooken away and he had million upon million upon millions and besides him you know i am have to say jerry anguilo not because he is from boston like I am but he was a cash cow and was a numbers extrordaniare, genius in that racket. he gave old man ray 100,00 and another 50 every year. had all types of businessess, mortgage co's, tow trucking, lounges, resturaunts, limo services and even had big business going on with bernie mardoff so u know he was raking in millions besides the extortion bookmaking numbers sports gambling, shylocking, poker houses.... in one poker house he was raking in 250,000 a week and thats running it twice a week never mind the bingo games, racetrack, unions, construction, insurance scams, fake green cards, real big on the fireworks etc. Not for nothing Anguilo was a real cash cow like a fuckin 50 million easy. you have to know your talking about a guy when he got picked up in 83 he bailed out everyone who had bail not only the whole unit but the whole jail just so he can have some peace and quite but the whole fuckin jail lmaol people still talk about that to this day true fuckin story lmaol sorry for those who had no bail lmaol

At one time,Al Capone was listed in the Guinness Book of World Records as the private citizen having the highest income for one year. The figure quoted was $105,000,000. If I remember correctly,it was in the book for many years.
Since entries must be verified,I'm guessing that they had access to Law Enforcement info,or some type documentation. Adjusting for inflation,this would have to be in the half-billion dollar range in today's money.

I would say Carmine Lombardozzi. I remember reading somewhere that as he got older he was the biggest earner alive. There could have been someone before him or after him who earned more, but i don't know. I wouldn't really count bosses like Capone since that don't necessarily earn anything themselves since they mostly oversee others.

Has a comparison ever been done that factors inflation into this? Making a million in 1930 is a lot more difficult than making it today.

$1,000,000 in 1930 would be equivalent to $14,000,000 today.Check out http://www.davemanuel.com/inflation-calculator.php

Among other things,i believe Lombardozzi was one of the first guys to realize the full potential of the Stock Market as a new source of income for the Family. Nicknamed The Doctor,he was a ferocious money machine. You're right about Capone and other bosses. I was responding to income amounts,but the topic was biggest income generators,not recipients.

Don Carlo was a huge earner apparently, plehty of guys like Sal Locascio, Campos and Crea have been huge earners in recent years.

What about Jerry chilli with the bonanno's?? I heard he was a great earner.

might not be the biggest in history but John Gambino and his brothers were bringing in major weight in heroin from there scilian contacts. read somewhere that giovanni falcone said that they were bring in hundreds of millions of dollars worth of smack a year.

Not really. Not that hes not well off, but not even on the level with some bonano wiseguys. He was a shylock turned big shake down guy. As most shys do.

Who was the biggest earner in the Mafia? Noone on any of these blogs can really give any kind of accurate answer. Also, Some guys earned a lot of money and then had it taken away from them in one way or another.

Richie from the bronx
Richie martino
His scam alone made the gambinos a fortune 500 company


If we're factoring in inflation gambino was big in the tax stamps back in the day

If its a family run racket like the day the trade waste association or gambling in Harlem
Id say trigger mike
Jimmy aloi was an institution but again he was given myer

But making something out of nothing
Not overtaking a family run racket. It's richie martino. No doubt

Skinney, Do you mean the Bonnano Zips who really belonged to the Sicilian Mafia or do you mean the American Bonnano wise guys who cracked open parking meters to make money? Yes, very powerful indeed.

Richie martino run one of the biggest scan in mob history 500 millions plus

Has there ever been a estimate on how much money Carmine gAlante made?I think this guy made alot in those years when he was pushing heroin plus the fact he was greedy and wasnt splitting the profits

moe dalitz

Nobody really talks about him which shows how smart he was but some estimates have Angelo Ponte worth $500 million .

He was either a Genovese associate or made man , owned one of biggest garbage haulers in NYC ( probably still have some in NJ ), are by far the biggest land owners in Tribecca and owns a few restaurants ( Ponte's and Bareli's, both very good and still hangout outs for the boys ) . His grandson got married last year ( sick set up ).

Now I know alot of guys have made alot of $ , but $500M has got to be one of top ever, very impressive

Hes under franco i think. Makes sense they are both rich as fuck

according to the fbi and irs, the gas tax scammers were stealing over one billion dollars per year. the mafias cut was est at $250 million per year. the colombos and genovese were the first families to get a cut from the russians.

Someone has seen Donnie brasco a little too much it's a movie not one hundred percent fact

According to Raab in Five Families, it was actually $80-100 million a year for over a decade (1980's into early 1990's.)

Ivy, Some of the figures being thrown around here are way, way exaggerated into non reality. Thanks for giving a realistic number based more on facts.
How did this gas tax racket exactly work? Never heard of anyone doing it in Chicago? Please explain if possible. Thanks.

Here's how Raab basically described the "gasoline bootlegging" racket -

A new New York state law in the late 1970's or early 1980's gave the responsibility for paying the taxes to the final wholesaler who actually delivered the fuel to the retail gas chains. They figured this was easier to do instead of collecting them from all the gas stations themselves. The excise and sales taxes amounted to about 30 cents per gallon in the 1980's. The Russians, and later their LCN partners, formed "daisy chains" that supposedly transferred gasoline supplies to one another. There would be a sequence of paper transactions among five or six companies, although no exchanges actually occurred. To escape detection when state or federal authorities came looking for overdue taxes, a dummy or "burn" company was always listed on the transfer records as the one making the final sale to retail stations and collecting the taxes. Of course, the company never existed and was just used to bewilder the tax collectors. The Russians/LCN actually delivered the gasoline but kept the taxes for themselves.

Gas casso in his testimony on Russian organized crime stated that In the early 1980s the familys were receiving 500k a month from the Russians. This was initially split between the luchesse, Genovese and Colombo families. Later in the 1980s the scheme was expanded and the gambino family was brought in with tony pep and Anthony morelli , who were already extorting gas stations on long island.

Yes i know the scam was immensely profitable, but i was just talking about what Franzese walked away with. What makes me wonder is that the same FBI and IRS guys who came up with those total numbers for the scam set Franzeses restitution at 14 mil. The gov isn't known to lowball numbers in favor of anyone, usually it's the complete opposite and they try to stick you with the highest number they can.

Carmine Lombardozzi, I believe was the biggest earner of all time.

I'm recalling a mobster who fled to the West Coast to escape meeting with Anthony Casso and was killed..he was a Lucchese. Anyone remember who he is?

Anthony Dilapi

I'm curious about Jerry chilli as an earner for some reason. How much money was/is he making a year in your estimation? I heard he's in jail now. Is he ever going to be in contention for boss or a spot on the ruling panel when he gets out?

Carmine lombardozzi spent very very little time in prison also. Both him and Carlo gambino beat the Feds. Obviously Carlo more so than Carmine.

Sal Caruana

The big-time heroin guys (that did not die in prison) probably made the most money. Next, I would go with Anthony "Fat Tony" Salerno. BTW, I never liked that nick-name, he did not look very fat to me. Just short and stout like the proverbial teapot.

Jerry Chilli was never involved in any big-time rackets, mainly just gambling and loansharking. He's an old school guy who has been knocking around for a long time but I doubt he has a place in the administration anytime soon.

Does anyone ave an estimate of what carmine lombardozzi was making a year? I always felt al Capone made so much money because he didn't have to share too much of the money with any other families. There was only one family in Chicago, The Outfit. I wouldn't say he was one of the best bosses or anything. That's my opinion. I always felt that movies and television made him seem like a bigger and better boss than he really was. Same with john Gotti. I love the way they portray him on boardwalk empire though. It's a whole different side of al Capone that nobody is used to seeing on TV.

Got to think perspective and timing. Luciano, Capone, Joe B.

In a time where Italian OC controlled EVERYTHING and they were getting a piece of it all.

God knows how many crew's Luciano had kicking a piece up to him. Capone the same.

Dollar for dollar they must've been up there. Carlo G too.

Definitely, as stated above, Meyer Lansky.

What about Meyer lansky? How much was he making annually? He was worth $600 mil at the time of his death I believe. Who made more Lombardozzi or Lansky? I understand they used to call lombardozzi "The Italian Meyer lansky"

Nobody knew exactly what Meyer Lansky was worth. I believe I read somewhere that his wife & other immediate family members told the press/other sources that they were bankrupt-- that was obviously a lie.

Yeah! That was weird I think his daughter said he only left like $30,000 behind or something like that. And some stories came out that his wealth was overexaggerated by everybody. Which I doubt. I just think he did an amazing job at hiding his money. It's hard to believe that he didn't have hundreds of millions of dollars easy.

I'd be saying that too! I wouldn't want the FBI to take my illegitimate inherence.

Detroit, I know Meyer Lansky's grandson. He was involved in that Mob Experience thing in Las Vegas. You have to understand two things when it comes to money in Organized Crime. 1) People have a tendancy to throw around numbers and before you know it the numbers become WAY exaggerated into non reality. 2) The newspapers said at the time of his death he owned property and cash that was worth POSSIBLY $300 Million, not $600. Then, you have to take into account WHO was throwing around the big numbers AND MOST IMPORTANTLY, Lansky had several New York Mafia partners and other partners across the Country.
What does this mean? It means that if He owned A PIECE of something that was part of the Syndicate, when he died, it reverted back TO HIS PARTNERS, not his family. So, who knows how much money or property HE PERSONALLY HAD at the time of his death THAT WENT TO HIS FAMILY. He was worth PERSONALLY TENS OF MILLIONS over a 60 year carreer. I'll give you that much.

I saw somewhere that his net worth is $600 mil today. At the time of his death it was $300 mil.

Al Capone's figure of $105 Million turned out to be the GROSS estimate taken in from all his rackets in Chicago. From that figure you have to subtract 1) Cost of Goods 2) What the other men in his organization made 3) What he paid out for political protection.
Again, figures about money in Organized Crime (especially years ago) have to be taken with a grain of salt because you're never getting the complete story. The impression given is usually WAY exaggerated or inaccurate.

Dont forget Gambino capo Salvatore "Tore" Locascio n soldier Richard Marino. Their internet porn operation allegedly brought in hundreds of millions....I believe the estimate was $300,000,000 over the years they were actively scamming people with the dollar per day internet porn tours. Then they would keep on billing people the monthly membership fee, plus use people's credit cards to make purchases. Then you have all the regular, monthly members who spend $30-$40 on average for membership on various porn sites. It is a very, very lucrative business, far surpassing anything the old guys like Bonanno Mickey Zafarano could have ever imagined. The internet has given the mob an absolute huge legitimate business that rakes in the cash along-side gambling n drugs....not as big, but very, very sweet! The internet took porn outa the seedy adult shops n placed it right onto PCs, laptops, tablets n cellphones in bedrooms, livingrooms, offices, libraries (ya, you should see some of the weirdos u catch surfing porn in the library) n any place else that is private enuff. O.C. Groups from the Italians, Russians, Chinese, Japanese, etc. have placed internet porn as a priority....I mean each ethnic group adds their own flavor to the business n with all the "categories" of porn available, its a smorgasbord. The families n their members involved in internet porn are huge earners.

I believe I read that Lansky brother got most of his $ as his assets were in his name to hide the true ownership and I believe he had $30m left at his time of death.

I'm still going with Angelo ponte , his TriBeCa properties are worth several hundred million by some estimates ( they have sold very little properties which in hindsight made the family mega rich ). They are the most successful connected families that nobody has heard off.


http://therealdeal.com/blog/tag/ponte-equities/

I don't believe either Lanksy or Capone were personally worth anywhere near those figures posted in that thread. The $750 million taken from customers through the internet and phone cramming scams, run by the Gambino family's Locascio crew, is well documented but it's not like all of that money went into their pockets. The prosecution alleged something like $40 million was kicked up to the Gambino leadership as tribute after the guys actually involved in the scams took their cut. They all made a lot of money, and were able to pay huge fines, but it was much less than that total $750 million figure.

Ivy, agreed 110%. These articles about who made the most are ridiculous and full of huge exaggerations that become bigger than life the more different people talk about it. There are many unanswered variables involved EVEN AFTER ASSUMING the starting Gross figure is even close to being accurate.

Ivy and Chi , I agree that most mob $ figures are exaggerated, especially the gambling as the Feds use the bet amount as the income, but I never read about $40m being kicked up to Gambino adm for the Internet scams

That is a ridiculous amount of $, do you know who got that? JR, Cozzo ?

Between the gasoline and Internet scam , I just don't understand why these guys didn't retire to FL . Some of these guys might have got $10m+ tax free personally . You need to be a genious just to move that amount of $ around

The gas scam happened on Gotti and Chin watch , I just wish I had more details on what these guys did with their cash . Between those 2 scams , up to a $100m might have been kicked up between west side and gambinos . The $ amount is just staggering and their families should be rich to this day, but it doesn't seem like they are . Those scams alone could of made all members millionaires, no reason to get into drugs with how lucrative these rackets were . That Locasio kid is something , I wouldn't be surprised if he cleared $50-75M for that scam alone , I hear he is retired but I also here he has some activity in FL

As I've pointed out many times before, the figures quoted in gambling cases are almost always in reference to the amount wagered over the length of the investigation; sometimes averaged out for an annual total. Not the net profit.



Prosecutors allege that Richard Martino, a Gambino “soldier,” directed the scheme and paid $8 million of the proceeds directly to Locascio, the leader of his “crew,” and funneled at least $40 million more into Gambino family coffers.
http://www.nbcnews.com/id/6928696/ns/us_...d/#.UczYfjvku_U



It seems Tore may have done just that (retired to Florida).



The money from the gas tax scam was likely spread out over many people. You look at Chin's family, they're all well off. Junior Gotti isn't hurting for cash. Nor are the Persicos.

Some Genovese soldiers and captains to consider:

Jimmy Napoli supposedly had the largest numbers operation in the country running out of his bar in Brooklyn, he had interests in Vegas, he was a behind the scenes power in the fight game.

Charlie the Blade Tourine, casino interests in Vegas, Havana, Florida, the Caribbean, and London, he was big in the Maryland/Washington DC area through Joe Nesline and he was said to be involved in activities in such remote places as New Mexico and Alaska.

Trigger Mike Coppola had the rackets in Harlem, was the most powerful mobster in South Florida for a time, casino interests in Vegas, Havana, Florida, the Caribbean and Newport, Kentucky.

Jimmy Blu Eyes Alo, big in Florida,Vegas, Havana, the Caribbean, Hot Springs, he was in on alot of big deals through his relationship with Meyer Lansky

I don't think that any family can match the amount of huge earners that the Genovese have had over the years, especially when you consider bosses like Costello, Catena, Tieri and Salerno who were big time earners in their own right.

From the actual indictment it says
"martino directed more than 30 million in telephone cramming proceeds direcly to locascio and mustafa"
"between June 1999 and 2000 martino directed more than 8 million from the Internet fraud directly to a company owned by locascio"

Crazy thing is these are seprate from one another proceeds from different schemes

230 million stole from Telephone scam and 100 million in profits
And 200 million from Internet fraud scheme

Like I said Biggest earners of all time and this is what is proven, who knows how much more was unproven, I know george freselone also said and dealt with these guys, cause they are also major in video poker and numbers

http://www.lawfuel.com/roslynn-r-mauskopf-united-states-attorney-for-the-eastern-distri/

Where is he now? John Porky Zancocchio

Porky? Working in lanas restaurant on SI

when hes not handling his 50 agent sheet

Porky is Anthony graziano's son in law I believe.

Yeah hes married to Lana i think, maybe jennifer?. Or they might be seperated. idk. i cant remember

What about Roy DeMeo in late 70's with the car ring racking in an estimate $150,000 a week. He also brought the Westies in alliance with Gambino family paying 10% of their profits. He also moved allot of Narcotics and also made allot of money in pornography.

From what I have heard the Westie did not kick up $1 to Roy or the Gambinos

They did what they wanted . The alliance probably only gave them a name to throw around or protection when dealing with the Genovese who had alot of influence in that neighborhood and were in a secret war with the Westies . The Westies were crazy but had no chance vs that family , the Mad Dog and his who knows who else were hunting them.

The Gambinos basically got a new murder crew outside the family and probably got some control of them ( ie no more K & R jobs ) . NYC must have been like the Wild West back then, legit serial killers everywhere .

DeMeo was a good earner but nowhere near the top. The biggest illegal money came from:
1. bootlegging - Al Capone made $100 million, which is billions in today's money in about 6 years
2. narcotics - The Pizza Connection guys moved billions in heroin over 10 years
3. gas scams - The Colombos, Gambinos and Genovese made hundreds of millions in less than 10 years
4. internet/phone scams - One Gambino crew stole about $650 million over 10 years

All of this is dwarfed by the Colombian and Mexican cartels.

True on all points mulberry. I think what would made a better topic was who made the most off of traditional rackets? Numbers, sports, shy.... In jersey both Andy Gerard and Tino had nine figure sportbooks that they ran thru guys like Phil D and Blue. The gerardo/dephillips crew had a dozen all night poker games going on daily around the newark area in the 80s, 90s. Crap games with six figure bank rolls... I can only imagine the money they took in one night. Willie Morrettis numbers biz supposedly had hundreds of runners... I couldnt get close to thinking of all the big gambling/shy guys.

In my opinion Vito Rizzuto is one of the biggest earner of all time ... They estimate his networth between 500 mil and a billion dollar . He controlled the drug trafficking in Canada for more than 25 years and now he's back from an 8 years prison sentence (thanks to the fucking Joe Massino rat) and since he's back he seems to be the top guy in canada , that guy is amazing , he's a fucking bo$$ .

I've never been able to understand how anyone can estimate a criminals fortune. Does anyone know how the FBI or Forbes for instance come up with these criminals net worth lol.

They cannot. It is all wayyy exaggerated into non reality liked I've stated before. Many times.

One example: The estimate of Al Capone earning $100 million, which would be 1 Billion in today's Dollars, was only a guess and it was the GROSS amount of Businss the entire Outfit did in one year.
It's not how much money Al Capone put in his fucking pocket AFTER all expenses and payoffs and everything else. If Capone personally earned 5 million I would be surprised.
Then, he had to reinvest a lot of it into the business again. When he went to prison for good, THE OUTFIT took it over, not his fucking wife or children.

You can always figure that whatever exaggerated number is named by someone, they don't know what they're talking about and you can usually make it on an average 10 TIMES LESS and then you will be closer to reality.

The Outfit guys would LAUGH at some of the old estimates made by people, especially the one about Al Capone. The estimate made it sound like Al Capone personally put $100 million Dollars in his pocket and of course his family would probably eventually inherit most of it. Double LOL,LOL.

+1

John Kobler, Capone's best biographer, estimates that the Outfit took in all that money in 1927-28. But, not much stuck to Capone. For one thing, he had to pay out most of it in bribes to politicians, judges and cops. He had an army of lawyers that sucked in another big part of the Outfit's cash, and nearly all of them were incompetent and greedy. Plus, Capone was a degenerate gambler. He died nearly broke, sustained by his brother Ralph.

Thank You Turnbull. In addition, the funny part about the whole thing was that this way exagerrated figure was listed in the Guiness book of World Records as the highest PERSONAL income for an individual. LOL
Gross and net are two way different things, especially when you have partners also involved. Just ask your C.P.A. when he does your taxes. LOL.

The arrangement was they'd turn over 10% to the Gambinos (except for loansharking profits) for which they could be affiliated with the family. Maybe they didn't actually turn over 10% but I have a hard time believing they didn't kick up any money.



It's a little apples and oranges to compare a domestic crime group like the Italian-American mob to the cartels in Colombia and Mexico. A better comparison would be the crime groups in Italy.

- The King of Wall Street a.k.a. "The Doctot", Carmine Lombardozzi.
- Allie Shades, Alfonso Malangone
- Michael Franzese
- The Hook, Angelo LaPietra
- Albert Anastasia
- Sonny Red, Alphonse Indelicato

Rocco Infelise

Rizzuto, way exaggerated. Make it about 10% of that figure and that's probably closer to his PERSONAL net worth. When he went to jail for 8 years, someone else took over a lot of what was considered belonging to him. When these guys go away for 8 years, it's not like a legitimate businessman who has things in his name legally that can't be taken away so easily.
NO ONE GUY CONTROLLED drug trafficking in all Canada. LOL.
Heeere we go with all the Gross Exaggerations again based on a lot of fanboy adoration.

Chicago sometimes I think you just like to be the devils advocate.



Rizzuto is very, very powerful. Make no mistake. And montreal is a HUGE avenue of coke importation. Of which he controls via his association with Italy the vast majority.

I would be surprised to find a higher earning OC figure alive today.

You may be right. I'm objecting to the Grossly exaggerated figures that are thrown out that are based upon non reality and ignorance about how things work. That's all.

I don't doubt for a second that Rizzuto, even after having been gone to jail for 8 years, has a personal net worth in the Tens of Millions. I wouldn't doubt that at all.

But, when I hear figures thrown around at least 10 or 15 times higher and statements like one guy controlled all the Drugs in Canada, then I have to object and laugh about it like the Al Capone estimate from years ago.

Hey Chicago. You'll know the answer to this. I've read a couple different times that Rocco Infelise was a big earner for The Outfit? Was he a big earner?

Matteo Messina Denaro is up there too.

Yes, Rocky was involved in Gambling with Joe Ferriola.
They were in the Cicero crew.
If You'll notice, I simply say he was good earner, I don't start throwing around big exaggerated numbers and act like Infelice controlled all Gambling in Chicago and all the money Gross amount of money taken in went into his personal pocket.

If Sicilians,Calabrians and Neapolitans were included, there wouldn't be any Americans to mention in this topic imo.

Yeah I thought is heard he was a pretty good earner. I like your style though of not throwing out numbers or lifetime upping amounts. I know for a fact, 100%; If I ever have a question about Chicago, your my go to hitter.

You're right. If you're talking about international drug trafficking, we're talking about something on a whole different level.
Don't forget to include the Colombians and the Mexican Cartels also. LOL.

The thread is about being the biggest earner, first of all. Not personal wealth.
I only brought up MMD, because Rizzuto was mentioned.

If you're talking to me i completely agree, i only mentioned the other parts of Italy because there'll be a lot of bosses that don't get mentioned, who make alot more than the highest earners in the US.

There's no way to know who is the biggest earners in an ANY Criminal Organization. How do you separate an INDIVIDUAL from the ENTIRE Organization? Impossible. You have to look at the entire Organization as an earner more than the individual because there is no way to separate it unless you went in and had professionals audit them, which would NEVER happen.

Concur. Was referring to North American OC. Non specific cartel related.

If you read the op he specifically says, Who was the biggest earner in the history of the mob? Even if we were to talk about strictly Organized Crime, which the op doesn't specify, the Italian mafias are 10 times more organised than any US family. The South American drug cartels are more or less loosely affiliated gangs, the Cammora,’Ndrangheta and Sicilian Mafia are widely recognized as among the most Organized criminal groups on the planet.

Yes, I agree with you about the Italian Mafia.
I liked your first question when you wanted to know how could they determine someone's net worth in organized Crime. I believe that was your comment.
My point and really only point got sidetracked a little with a few other things.

Here's the point about this thread:

All these threads that are COMPETITION threads or threads like:
Who had the Strongest Family, Who was the biggest Earner , Who was the most Powerful, Who had the biggest dick etc. are stupid, juvenile and ridiculous.

There is NO WAY anyone can separate an individual from an entire Criminal Organization and start ASSIGNING DOLLAR FIGURES to an INDIVIDUAL and say HE was the biggest earner because there are too many people involved. It's impossible to separate ONE INDIVIDUAL from the entire Organization, assign some magic Dollar figure to him, and say he was the biggest earner. It's impossible.
It's no different than the Feds saying years ago that Al Capone earned $100 Million Dollars in one year. That was ridiculous. The ENTIRE OUTFIT MAY have taken in $100 Million but the efforts were made by A LOT OF PEOPLE, Not just Al Capone.
A million minus a million is still zero. Noone knows all the EXPENSES involved, losses, and all the people involved receiving some of the money. The ONLY way you could know would be to have a professional Audit done to determine it. LOL, which would never happen.

That is my only point and complaint with this thread.

I share your problems with this thread, these turn up at least once a month very rarely it's a fresh, interesting topic, most of the time they are threads that have been made multiple times and if the search function was used the op would be able to read through the thread to see if his question was answered, if not he could leave a comment on the existing thread. The other ones were started by Wilson .

I took this comment - You're right. If you're talking about international drug trafficking, we're talking about something on a whole different level.
Don't forget to include the Colombians and the Mexican Cartels also. LOL.

As implying that the Italians are comparable to the Mexican cartels in terms of orginization, which i must have been mistaken about.



.

Camarel, Thank you for listening. I think you are a sharp person and can see through some of this ridiculousness. LOL.

Whenever I would run into somebody that really admired someone and they would start rattling off huge exaggerated unsubstantiated Numbers about an individual , I would always use the Al Capone Story to make my point.

Camarel, don't think that the Outfit guys didn't talk about some of this stuff. The Al Capone $100 Million Dollar story was a big joke they would laugh about and make more jokes about it.

As far as the other subject, NOONE could ever beat the Sicilians and other Italians when it came to organization and secrecy. The American Mafia could learn a lot from the Zips.

Again @ Chicago.

Disagree.

Of course people earn diff in the mob. Some are more successful than others. A few much more so.

This is simply a thread aimed at identifying those exceptional individuals who are at the top in earnings in OC.

No ones saying the figures thrown around are anything but best guesstimates.

Forbes publishes highest earners. They don't audit.

Why is it so ridiculous on an OC board to try and identify top guys?

Sonny, You can identify all the exceptional earners you want, I do it myself. However, it is ridiculous to assign a Dollar figure to it for all the reasons I stated.
There is nothing wrong in saying Dominic Cortina and Donald Angelini were big earners in the Outfit.
However, I would never say how much money they PERSONALLY earned or what their PERSONAL Net worth was because I have no idea and neither does anyone else. There are too many other variables involved that are UNKNOWN. That's all I'm saying.

Fair point.

Thank You, you fucking Ball Buster. LOL.

It's rare that someone can effectively retire from the rackets and live off their income without law enforcement going after them and live in splendor. One guy who's name frequently came up in other discussions was Gerry Catena. Paul Castellano lived in his White House, but LE was always on his back and he had concerns about his own people. In 1986 Fortune magazine had a list of the wealthiest mobsters that included Tony Salerno and Michael Franzese. Here's some other lists (not all have accurate information):

http://www.investopedia.com/financial-edge/0912/8-of-the-richest-gangsters-of-all-time.aspx

http://www.celebritynetworth.com/articles/entertainment-articles/7-richest-criminals-history/

http://www.worldfinancialblog.com/entertainment/the-5-richest-criminals-of-all-the-time/

http://newsone.com/1505845/top-10-richest-gangsters-of-all-time/

Faithful1, We just went through this whole thing and now you're bringing up these same bullshit articles with all the same gross exaggerations being repeated.
The article says the same thing about Al Capone having a net worth of $100 Million in 1929 which is ludicrous. So are the other examples including Tony Salerno. If Capone's net worth or one year's income was way off and misleading, don't you think the others are way off. Someone qualified can estimate the net worth of Bill Gates, but not these people. It's not the same thing!

The people that write these articles that have no idea what they're talking about. The're just repeating the same bullshit they heard or read somewhere else.

Al Capone NEVER HAD A PERSONAL NET WORTH OF $100 million.
Meyer Lansky NEVER HAD A PERSONAL NET WORTH OF $300 million.

I'm not going to go through the whole thing again. Read my postings above. You're killing me. LOL

MMD was the one that came to mind to me also. They just recently confiscated how many euros from one of his 'front guys'? Probably a drop in MMD's bucket.

You're welcome! And, you're right on aabout exaggeration:

A big problem in doing scholarship on the Mob is that they aren't the types to leave their collected letters and papers to universities so that people like us can study them. Nor do they file tax returns. So, most of what's written about them is hearsay or worse. Case in point: Meyer Lansky was reputed to be the "richest gangster ever--worth $300 million." That figure stuck to him all his life, and was responsible in large part for the Justice Dept.'s prosecution of him. But Lansky had a competent biographer, Robert Lacey, who traced it to a tabloid-type writer, Hank Messick, who admitted that he heard it second-hand, was impressed by the figure, and ran with it. So did everyone else. Lacey figured Lansky was worth no more than $5 - 6 million at his peak--not peanuts then or now, but not the stuff of $300 million.

Lacey says the reason Lansky lived to 82 and died peacefully is he was never wealthy or powerful enough to incur jealousy--always fatal in the Mob. "He was the accountant, not the boss."

Joe Coffee made that statement about the Westies never kicking up despite the agreement , and it makes sense as that is how the Westies rolled

The Biggest earners in the American Mafia last years were:
Turnbull & Chicago, Outfit guys who EACHED earned 1 Billion Dollars NET PROFIT that they stuck in their pockets from the control of all the Poker Machines in the entire United States.

As reported by Chuck Goudie, Organized Crime reporter from Chicago.

Chicago, I put a qualifier that the articles don't necessarily have accurate information. They're half rough estimate and half entertainment. If you read them with that sort of understanding there's no issue.

@ Chicago , You are way off man , I'm pretty sure you don't know a lot about organized crime in Canada . I've read all the best books there is about it + I grew up in the street of Montreal . Let me tell you one thing , you don't even have an idea how much money they made back in the 90's ; The Rizzuto clan was the top organization out there and they supplied the Hells Angels Nomad wich was the most feared crew in the 90's . They imported tons of blow and hash every year . They ran major loanshark bussiness and they had a piece on huge construction project . Vito has a piece on everything , he's the most powerful mob boss of all time in canada .

Rizzuto Fanboys, I understand that the Rizzuto's were powerful. Rizzuto did not control all drugs in Canada and he does not have a personal net worth of $500 Million. Books always waaay exaggerate things about organized crime. You should read what they said About Al Capone years ago. LOL

That's the point. Don't name dollar figures and don't say one guy controlled all drugs in Canada and you'll be okay.

When you start naming numbers, you destroy your credibility and sound like a kid in a fucking playground exaggerating about how great your Dad is and that he can beat up all the other Dads in the whole world.

Don't name numbers unless you personally audited him. OTHER THAN THAT, I agree that they were powerful in the 90's.
Relax, what I'm saying applies TO ALL ORGANIZED CRIME in America and Canada.

Taking a zero away of 500 million and that would certainly be the most conservative estimate of his net worth.

Good point. Corruption in Quebec is still endemic and systematic. Think concrete club NY 80's.

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/quebeccorruptioninquiry.html?app=noRedirect

If anyone's interested the above gives a few articles.

Personally can't wait until someone flips and writes a book. Last 10years in Montreal are fascinating.

Chicago , I said that THEY estimate his net worth between 500 and a billion . I got that from a very good book from experts in the Rizzuto organization . Those guys have been following them since they got into power ... I don't say that I agree with that statement but I would bet my money that Vito Rizzuto net worth is over 100 million dollars . I don't know why you keep bringing Al Capone up , at that time they didn't even have good technology and shit ! Who cares about Al Capone money anyways ? that guy have been dead for decades ... Call me a fanboy or anything you want if you please but I do care about my hometown Cosa Nostra like you probably care about yours , The Outfit .

I don't care about the Outfit. The fucking Outfit killed my father in 1985!
You're missing the point!

Books grossly exaggerate figures about organized Crime ALL THE TIME. They mix up Gross with Net, they guess at a Gross figure OF THE ENTIRE ORGANIZATION and assign it to ONE GUY.
I was trying to give you a couple examples:

1) Historians way past 1929 have stated in books that Al Capone earned $100 million dollars in one year. That is complete bullshit. Maybe the Capone Organization grossed $100 million in one year ( which I doubt) but that would include hundreds of guys, not JUST Al Capone. And, that would be Gross not Net.
They made it sound like Al Capone put $100 million in his pocket. Complete bullshit exaggeration. I was using this AS AN EXAMPLE of inaccurate or misleading exaggerations.

2) Historians in books have written that Meyer Lansky was worth $300 Million when he died. Complete exaggerated bullshit.
When he died, his PERSONAL NET WORTH was $6 million. 2% of what they stated IN SEVERAL BOOKS.

Now do you get the point? These people that write books are only repeating some inaccurate Gross exaggeration that they heard or read somewhere else.

I'm not trying to offend you, I'm only trying to explain something to you. Take what you read in a Book with a grain of salt When they start throwing around these huge numbers.

NOBODY KNOWS unless someone did a professional audit of the person or the entire organization, which would never happen. It's just exaggerated guessing and it gets bigger and bigger the more these assholes keep writing about it.

Turnbull, the head moderator of this site who is a very smart guy agrees with me. Read his posting above these last few postings.

Let's be honest here. The Italian syndicates are long well established and don't receive the same extent of persecution as the Mexican and Colombians cartel do or ever did. The reason why there is a lot of violence in Mexico related to organized crime is because of the different dynamics the Mexican cartels have to deal with the Italians never had to deal with. First off, the Mexican cartels are not well established compared to their headquarters where they are as well establish if more than the Italians. For example, the Gulf 's cartels headquarters is Reynosa and Matamoros, both are located south of Texas in the border region. The Gulf Cartel for decades operated and pretty much secluded themselves in those two border towns and as a result they are well established. All of the top bosses and captains are located in those two border towns and all of the orders come from there. It's basically the roots and trunk of the organiztion and it's almost near impossible for their enemies like Los Zetas to invade, enter or remain undercover/sleeper cells for a long until they are uncovered by the vast and sophisticated intelligence network, they have created made out of lookouts, municipal police, detective police, state police and the army. As Z-40 or Miguel Angel Trevino has found out the hard way, every time he sends 30 or 40 goons into the Gulf Cartel's headquarters. They never manage to remain there for longs as noted from this video:
(which I will later post because I am tin the library)

This is a supposed video of the Gulf Cartel members dressed in military outfits with helmet and military gear and interrogate Zeta goons caputred in Reynosa or Matamoros(Gulf Cartel HQ). You think these are cartel thugs in that video? I don't think so. Sure both Los Zetas and the Gulf Cartel are known to dress in military and police outfits to confuse the public and enemies when they go out to kill. But those look like professionals to me and not thugs as they want to suggest. It's more likely they are Mexican soldiers and not thugs. The person doing the interrogation is supposed to be one of the higher ranking Metros(Gulf Cartel faction). And this is just tip of the iceberg on how deeply the Gulf Cartel has penetrated and infiltrated the Tamaulipas state government and it's security forces. But all of this protection is just temporarily or virtual reality when you have Gulf Cartel plaza bosses working for the DEA and giving insight info into the organization for both future leneint sentences, operating as long as the DEA offer and keep much of the future net worth he or she has accumulated over the years as a drug trafficker. Once the informant gives as much info to the DEA , the drones takes care of the surveillance for months based on the informant intel and finally they plan a operation against the monitored drug boss. About 600 marines invade Matamoros or Reynosa and perform an operation and perimeter around the alledge location of the drug boss. They start to close in to his location and hours later 30-40 cartel goons are killed and the drug boss killed or apprehended. These type of scenarios or deals create distrust and divisons among the two factions of the Gulf Cartel. Though the Gulf Cartel has been prove resilient from fragmentation and infighting and I give credit to the well established they are in Reynosa and Matamoros, the close knit relationship between the bosses keeping informants to a minimum(several drug bosses and catpians have been waked for being presumed informants, Metro 3 was most probalbly wacked becasue he was being suspected as an informant) and the contacts or steady supply of coacaine and drugs that keep new playeers from rising and taking advantage of the opportunity. If the Gulf Cartel had theri bosses more widespread then it would of surely suffer from divison, infighting and eventually fragmentation like the other cartels (I'm looking at you Sinaloa).

Now the reason why there is so much violence is that the cartels started to scarmble for political connections for protection to move their durgs loads/shipments safely once the 80 rule of the PRI party ended with the election of PAN president Fox in 2001. As the cartels started to expand beyond their headquarters seeking political connections to move their loads and establishing new drug routes, creating competition and conflict for the limited amount of available political connections available and inevitably for wars for those newly established drug routes. (The PRI has always allowed the drug cartels to operate as long as they kept the violence at a minimum. Hundreds died in between the Sinaloa and Gulf Cartel wars but things were about to get much worse with the election of president Felipe Calderon. When Felipe Calderon was elected he sent 60,000 soldiers to combat and dismantle the drug cartels just as the cartels started to expand and barely trying to establish themselves in the new turf. To combat the overwhelming force of the federal government the cartels started to evolve and recruit a lot of people. The cartel's membership exploded from a couple hundred to thousand and thousand over the next couple of years. Just as the local and state cops were being corrupted and infiltrated by the cartels. Eventually the 60,000 soldiers and federal police were being bought off for protection and muscle. Protection and muscle was available for the highest bidder. Some cartels had more protection than others and the cartels used their connections against each other. All of the this creating the shit storm we see in Mexico. Informants, betrayals, past grudges, shady deals with the Mex and US governments, DEA , corrupt cops and politicans siding and betraying some cartels has created instabliliy in the Mexican underworld thus creating a lot of violence in result of that.

What about "Tom mix" santora? Or Christie "Tick" Furnari? Gas pipe casso had a pinky ring worth I believe $100,000. Tony Salerno had a gambling racket that brought in an "estimated" tens of millions of dollars a year easily. Carmine lombardozzi as many have said made a lot too. Any possible estimates on how much he made?

Lana is his wife. Did anypne read the book she wrote?

I think Marcello is up there when it comes to most money. Remember Nola was basically his and there was no competition. South America and its plentiful supply of Marijuana and Coke is only a two hour flight out of New Orleans. He had intersts in the Vegas Casinos, not to mention the Casinos he owned in Cuba before they got shut down. He had poker machines and slot machines throughout the state as well as every racket pretty much locked down in the state.

His family is very well off, They own a 6,000 Acre estate down here and countless other properties.

The biggest earners in the American mob r defo Salvatore locasico and Richard martino of the gambino family

Wild bill cutolo was a massive Money earner , that's one of the reasons persico made him underboss so they could get him close enough to kill him , they feared his earning power and growing influence in the family

IRS agents estimated Capone personally made over $1,000,000 in profits per year as Outfit boss for 7 years using his accountant's ledgers, assets, and personal expenditures. That's $98 million in today's money.

The $100 million per year in gross revenues from the Outfit would have been reduced by cost of goods sold, bribes, attorneys and paying henchmen.

Richard martino and Salvatore locasico , the gambino mobsters set up Internet porn sites . In just one scam they earned the gambino family close to a billion dollars