Was John Gotti a good mob boss?

Here's the thing that makes me wonder. He killed Castellano which in my view was wrong, although I do understand the view he was more of a business man than a mob boss. But the real thing was the heat he brought onto the mob, La Costra Nostra is a secret society and John Gotti flaunted it around the whole of New York and was really careless. Despite the money he made and the way he made sure the soldiers got there piece of the action, I believe he was the one who actually ruined the mob and made it something it was never supposed to be. Casso tried to kill him a few times but was unsuccessful in doing so because of the camera's and heat he had on him. So would Casso of managed to kill him if he ran it normal? And did he infact ruin organised crime?

Gotti definitely caused a lot of damage to the Gambinos, but i wouldn't say that he ruined the Mob. The Families had been in a steady decline thanks to RICO,more funding for law enforcement,the diminishing quality of the members themselves,and the abandonment of the "old school" ideals of loyalty and respect.
As far as the Gambinos go,Gotti absolutely was in over his head as Boss. He was Capo material at best.I would agree with you that the element that hurt the Gambinos the most was Gotti's runaway ego.

Gotti had an innate ability to lead guys, many of whom were more capable than he was. He wasn't stupid. But he wasn't qualified to run the entire Gambino family. A blue collar captain, but not boss. And his ego made things even worse.

Ivy, agreed... EGO was his main problem.

He was a born leader imo, and very loyal, despite what people say about being loyal to your boss, Castellano would have killed him and Ruggiero, his best friend... He was more loyal to his crew than he was a guy who hated him originally.

The answer to your question is answered firstly by another question: what constitutes a good mob boss?

As Ivy said, Gotti was a leader. He had balls the size of watermelons and he would die 1000 deaths for his belief in La Cosa Nostra. He was completely ruthless and, eventually, with Sammy beside him they became so unmerciful that it ultimately led to the downfall of both men.

gotti broke just about every cosa nostra rule except ratting, which he done a great job at blabbing on tape. he was not coda rostra ,he was a ego maniac

A good capo but did not know how to run the family.Everything was in the eye of the public,from having weekly meeting to his big ass ego.He may be one of the worst boss ever.

personally i dont think he was even a good capo. I mean his crew had a lot of idiots that he couldnt control. Angelo gene cause of alot of trouble with their heroin dealing and getting caught on wiretaps. Gotti wasnt too bright but he had to know they were dealing and he had to know angelo was a blabbermouth

I think you can judge a boss by what he leaves behind when he is sent to prison or dies. Gotti left behind a family in shambles with a dozen capos headed to prison. The family was much weaker than what he had inherited. Gigante left his family strong and pretty much in the same condition as when he took over. Amuso and Casso did more damage to their family than Gotti did to his.

carlo Gambino was a good boss that would be my answer

I also agree he should of been a capo only, just that ego of his I guess lol.

Everything was in the eye of the public ?

I think he done this because he was in fear of a hit on him over Big Paul the more tv reports, feds about the harder it was to hit him. balls like King Kong he had for sure. he was not a good boss but loyal to his men to the end and never did a deal not like other scumbag rats like Casso Sammy the bull.

He was a terrible Boss, Bosses can't love the camera..

Good Point. Gotti liked to act like he was the toughest guy on the block. Its common Knowledge that he was absolutely terrified of roy demeo. he also was afraid of Anthony Casso and Vic Amuso. i mean they blew up Frankie decicco who was his underboss and gotti didnt he even attempt to fight them because he was scared of them

he was very tough, but how good a guy was he screwing a made man's wife while he was in the can?/ what a scumbag..gotti cared for gotti..forget the hype

I agree you are refering to Sandy Grillo the wife of Ernie Grillo.

yes

Haha I bet gotti thought he was a good boss.he was well liked because he wasn't greedy and because he was considered a blue collar kinda guy who came up the hard way.he also did alot of dumb shit tho.making every1show up at his club every week.jus hand the feds a list of names and a photo.and ud think he would b more careful about talking but no he was a cocky bastard who forgot he only won his trials because of payoffs. Chin was a good boss.gotti not so much

Wsan't she the daughter of Gotti's mentor, Neil Dellacroce?

Exactly. I spoke about this in another thread. Sandy and Gotti had a illegitimate daughter named meagan. I actually met her once back in 2006 in a club in the city(we are around the same age)

One thing Gotti had and that was charisma. He was a very likeable guy and gained followers easily because he had the reputation of being a tough guy and an earner. I think he was a loyal person once he felt he could trust you. He wasn't no Scarfo who could turn on you in a second without thinking.

That being said, as other people here have stated, he was no boss material. Capo material at best. Sure he could lead guys, but I don't think he was that smart really. His toughness is what made him what he was, not his brains. A boss strutting around like King Louis XIV is ridiculous and he was too dumb to even realize what he did would backfire tremendously on not only him but the entire Gambino family. I'd go as far as calling him one of the biggest jokes ever in LCN history.

Nope - the Gambinp's were worse condition after his "reign". As others have said, Gotti was too public, mandated weekly meetings at the Ravenite to expose all the leaders in the family, and thumbed his nose at the G.

As far as i know, Gotti did not grow the families business interests - he did not create any new enriching scams.

When viewed in the same light as a CEO of a legit corporation, Gotti was a disaster, IMHO

The Gambinos have just now started to recover from Gotti's influence, taking a page out of the Genoveses book by becoming less noticeable by the feds and law enforcement - the exact opposite of how Gotti wanted to be seen. Gotti was a gangster through and through but he was just too careless to be the boss of an entire family.

Succinctly said. No argument here.

I agree about them taking more of a Genovese route in rebuilding but they also took some notes from the other side. Their boss is a zip and most of their upper echelons are zips. The Genoveses, being in essence the Lucianos, have always been the most Americanized of the families. So if they are working that combination in their rebuilding, it should be interesting to watch them develop. It might work great, it might not.

As far as Gotti being a good boss, he obviously wasn't. The repercussions of his rule are still being felt. But the worst boss? There were definitely worse. Scarfo for one. Like a few of you said, Gotti looked out for his guys. Scarfo whacked a bunch of his best guys. Savlie Testa. Scarfo was flamboyant like Gotti and vicious like Casso.

gotti was one of the top 5 worst bosses on the eastcoast

throw brother pete in also,and go coast to coast..

Off the top of my head i would say top 4 along with Amuso,Persico and Genovese unless i'm forgetting somebody.

What made Genovese a bad boss?

I'd add Scarfo

The vast majority of the Gambino family's captains are Italian-Americans.

I can only think of Cefalu, John Gambino, Cali and Conte that are zips with high rankings.

cali i believe is american born, conte i think is not a skip, for me a zip is someone born in italy..

Yeah your right Cali was born in the states but i'm pretty sure i've read somewhere that Conte was born in Sicily.

conte was born in sicily

Gotti was a terrible Boss. The best thing about him were his beautiful colorful ties and sharp looking suits. A very good dresser. Terrible Boss. Didn't know anything about who was doing what which is very common in New York. As he was struggling to try and understand all the extortion he was supposed to collect from different individuals, the F.B.I. was listening and learning step by step with him. He would have never been a Boss in Chicago. Never.

Thanks for the confirmation lol

Johnny Gotti biggest mistake was letting in that siggy Sammy the bull into the top echelons, Scarfo told crazy Phil never trust EM siggies. Among (most) wise guys this is a told you so mentality. Everything has a purpose Gotti was not a siggy and so he didn't rat Gravano on the other hand was a siggy and hey " I told you so"...
Book "mafia prince" Phil leonitti

My opinion: hell no. He was a disaster, at least for the mob..

I know... However at the same time you gotta explain why Gotti got there! What the hell are they paying you for? is the mentality of some of the buttons ppl have a need to know and understand why. Cos you don't want some of these guys to start with having a good day.
Johnny had mnemonic memory fuddagetaboitit could recall names dates, faces anything a must have in the life. Johnny even knew the priminster of Canada http://www.fivefamiliesnyc.com/2012/07/gambino-rat-and-teflon-don-adviser.html that's called contacts. Johnny had a genius level iq www.physicsforums.com › PF Lounge › General Discussion‎.
there are my reasons for his success.

Why do you call Gravano a siggy? What is a siggy? Care to explain?



What exactly can be found on this site? You need to be a member to read the posts right? Could you copy and paste the message?

red are you italian?

Johnny had to assemble his crew together for weekly meetings to keep them from plotting against him everybody knows this to be true! Remember Sammy the bull was anti-social if you looked at him in the restaurant for to long he pull up to your table and ax you if there's a problem. He consented to those weekly meetings to keep his paranoia in check, they didn't have those weekly meetings for the fun of it. I plead with you guys contacts are new thing$. As for his intelligence here are but a few of Johnny's ideas
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hoTK1o2-QQ4 2:02

red, why would that stop plots?

Becos gaspipe was on his ass, Casso hated big Paulie and kept calling Johnny talking about how big Paulie was gonna whack him. He didn't tell Johnny that Paulie was greedy, Casso told him that Paulie was gonna whack him "Do or die"! Then when Johnny whacked big Paulie, Casso said "would you look at dat, they whacked the boss". Casso then puts Lil Al in charge to take care of Johnny. You couldn't trust anybody. The only thing that could be done at that time was to keep an eye on everybody. How do you do that by bringing them together find out what they're up to.

Gotti was not a smart boss. If he had been, he would have layed very low, and let Gravano and Locasico run things while he stayed in background. Him being out front and holding weekly meetings even though he knew media would be camped out in front of social club hurt him and everyone around him.

What's this? That's a sick avator

http://www.vosizneias.com/23726/2008/12/...s-anti-semitic/

A sicilian. According to Leonetti, him and Scarfo used the term a lot but i never heard it used before i read Leonetti's book.

I think Scarfo and Leonetti's family were Neapolitan and i guess they don't trust sicilians.

I see. Cheers!

Scarfo is calabrese

Calabrese? Oh well, i was close. Thanks Cbronx.

You guys check out a scam called the "kosher nostra scam", ever heard of sholam weiss? Sholam Weiss was a contact of Johhny.

Scarfo said that among the siggies

red...but i still don't know how coming around a few times a week for a few hours stops plots..he didn't give polygraphs

Because that's the Italian way of doing things if you wanna get to know them you have to come by and stay for awhile eat some pasta, drink Grappa. They have to be 100% certain that you're there visiting them not for your own benefit but because you're their friend regardless of the circumstances kinda like a marriage in riches or in poverty that you'll never leave. Johnny had a memory of everything that you said and if you differed from what you had said in any detail you have a lot explaining to do. Johnny didn't need a polygraph he had other ways to get the truth outta you. Casso hired mafia cops Eppolito and Caracappa to kill Johnny however not just anybody could meet John Gotti it had to be done through mob emissaries and if you did meet him in person someone would have to speak for you, this made it hard for Eppolito and Caracappa to get close to him so they needed a contact within the Gambinos someone who would change sides against Gotti. But believe me when I tell you wouldn't leave the clubhouse if they suspected that you were a traitor. They could tell by your facial reactions, and body language or if you were to quiet and didn't wanna talk with anybody just kinda all to yourself. They'd know that something was wrong, remember Johnny said they're (FBI) gonna come after me anyway it doesn't matta what I do.

I think that the opposite is true. To prevent your Capos from plotting together against you,you keep them separate from each other.That way if two or three Capos from different areas are seen meeting together and the Boss finds out from someone other than those Capos,a red flag goes up.
Also if the Capos don't regularly socialize with each other,it's less likely that one will approach another with a possible plot,because he doesn't really know which side of the fence anyone is on.
You don't want the Capos to become too friendly or familiar with each other. The whole idea is to keep everyone guessing so that no one wants to be the first to suggest a move on the Boss.
Gotti's policy of weekly meetings was nothing more than his huge ego being stroked. He even remarked to an underling upon becoming Boss "Now they got to come to me".
As a result of Gotti's stupidity,the FBI was able to observe and videotape guys that weren't even on their radar before Gotti's acension. Before Gotti,a lot of the non-local Capos weren't even known to the Feds.
Then this goofball parades them in front of cameras every week,on schedule.
Christ,the TV listings should have read - WEDNESDAY 8:00 PM CHANNEL 9 - PARADE OF MOB GOONS- Weekly series starring John Gotti. Your favorite stars as well as up and coming new thugs are featured in this new reality show,straight from the fabulous Ravenite.
Joan and Melissa will be live on the Red Carpet with their unique take on Mafiosi Fashion.

red are you italian

lou very funny but true..all about ego..

Lou Para, Agreed 100%. Very good strategy. In addition to everything you said, Gotti should have had his own Crew. The Top Boss in Chicago always had the Strongest Crew, he was never alone or vulnerable.
Gotti was a terrible Boss. He thought he was in show business. Carlo Gambino was the complete opposite. Gambino was a real Mafia Boss. Not Gotti. Gotti was in way over his head. While Gotti was trying to understand everything involved in the Gambino Family, The Feds were learning right along with him. It was almost like Gambino Mafia Class 101 in College. Gotti and the Feds were all in class together.

You picked a great example of a true Mafia Boss. Gambino didn't even have a phone in his house,and despite constant surveillance of his home,was never captured on wiretaps or film doing anything. Supposedly, when a name came up for possible elimination,all he had to do was nod his head or sigh,and the guy was history. No one could ever testify to getting a direct order of any kind from Gambino.
Lastly,Gambino was known for only resorting to violence when all other avenues were exhausted,and he never acted out of emotion. He always took the action that was best for business,regardless of his personal feelings.

BRONX I'm closing down this account this is for you and you only.

Red, why would that stop plots?
Because Johnny said you gotta show up! Why becos it will stop dissension is the ranks...?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWzoXOtxXuc 0:30, 20:04

The best bosses are the ones who behave more like businessmen (Castellano, Gambino,...). In that respect Gotti was absolutely terrible.
On the other hand, as a gangster Gotti was terrific. A natural leader, tough, loyal with an ability to make tons of money. You can say what you want about him, but the guy had balls and was a gangster through and through. As a Capo he would've been good at what he did.

No, he was a respectable capo and gangster but not a good boss.

he single handedly destroyed the secrecy and put the LCN on the front page of time magazine. Was he a gangsters gangster, yes. He would have been a good boss in the 1930s.

U guys have to keep in mind that gotti represented an era that the feds decided to turn up thier efforts on the mafia, tony ducks was a great boss and even he was caught on tapes because they bugged his car, that don't make him a bad boss sometimes u just have to tip ur hat to the other guys, what spanked gotti was' not the public meetings, it was the feds breaking into the apartment above the social club and bugging it, with out the info that was caught on that bug gotti walks again and sammy never would have turned, it was a brilliant idea to hold private talks upstairs, but sometimes u have to tip ur hat

Bigfella,I agree with you and to add to it even Big Paul and Salerno among others were caught on wiretaps.Although,it seems the mobsters like Gotti after the commission trial would suspect they were being bugged everywhere they happen to be.You would think Gotti would have just been more careful.I just read my second book on Tony Spilotro.He is a good example of a very smart gangster.He acted as though,correctly that he was always being recorded.He even covered his lips on the street and drove out in the desert to talk mob business.After years of wiretaps,nothing.

While it is true that other Mob Bosses were caught on tape, I think that the question of Gotti's fitness as a Boss goes beyond just being wiretapped. He courted the spotlight,loved being photographed and written about,and enjoyed rubbing it in the face of the Law Enforcement community.The power,wealth,and respect of the Gambino Family took a nosedive under his reign.His inner circle was composed of nitwits like Angelo Ruggiero,his brothers Pete and Gene Gotti,Tony Roach,and,later on,his son John Jr.He kept the Family away from lucrative legit and semi-legit business.Had he not gone to jail,I think he would have wound up going the way of Big Paulie within three to five years.

A "good" boss is a boss that have leadership abilities and who is able to lead a Family in one direction. And if he´s not able to keep himself out of indictments and out of the risk of getting himself imprisoned, he´ll lose credibility with his troops. After all, the troops are dependent on his connections and power. A good boss also needs to be fair, so he must forget about being selfish, if he wants to keep the job.

Did John Gotti have these traits? Maybe he did, maybe he didn´t. But Gotti´s biggest problem was that he loved the lime light and he loved the attention given to him by the media. His nonhcalant ways when speaking to the media (and he sometimes trash talked the government) just added fuel to the fire which of course pissed the prosecution side off. A smarter boss would never challenge the government like that. Gotti seems to have thought that he was bigger than life.

Gotti wasnt a good boss thats pretty clear. I mean its a miracle he rose as fast as he did. He was made and became a capo mostly because of Neil Dellacroce. I mean he was a hijacker thats about it. Yes he some eladership qualities but wasnt smart enough to lead by example. he also knew nothing about other rackets such as white collar rackets which were more prominent in the 80's that the blue collar rackets in the early days.

This shouldn't even be a topic. He disrespected La Cosa Nostra, he ignored the rules set forth more than a century ago and he died in a cage like a squeaking little gerbil. That's Justice IMO for the piece of shit that he was. Guys like Gotti make it to Capo at best, at least in the eyes of the old timers like Gambino. Even Dellacroce, as blue collar as it gets, respected that the boss is the boss is the boss. Gotti is a prime example on how not to run an illegal business empire

Gotti was an awful boss but he did believe in the mafia and what it used to stand for. If it were not for the fact that he was a violent guy, he never would have got anywhere in the mob. He was a degenerate gambler and he was never a great earner. His brother Gene was the real money maker in the Gotti family. Even Angelo Ruggiero made more money than Gotti ever brought in by himself. If he did not have his crew to leech off of he would be no different than any other degenerate gambler who hangs out at the track. In many ways Gotti could be the luckiest mob guy ever, except for the life in prison thing lol. Just my two cents.

I honestly believe he never actually killed anyone himself, although he clearly ordered many hits.

when time magazine put the cover pic of gotti pres regan got pissed and turned up the heat,task forces formed,press followed gotti and he got loads of ink,making his capo,s show up at ravenite wasn't secret,feds got wise and bugged. anybody at that time was a boss got pinched with wire taps and informants,john spread the money around ,he didnt ruin the gambinos ,gravano did,never be a boss like gotti again.yes he was a good boss,if you knew your crew was gona be taken out ,wood you sit and let it happen,

http://books.google.ie/books?id=eCgAAAAA...loc&f=false

Good, lengthy article on Gotti with some interesting pictures. Perhaps you have already seen it. Thought it interesting so here it is for those who haven't seen it.

It's from New York Magazine circa early to mid 90's.

I wonder what some of the other capos thought of Gotti, particularly John Gambino and the other zips.

As uncle junior said in the movie Gotti.

"your turning this thing of ours into entertainment for every jadrool who watches the 6 o'clock news"

"but the boss of la cosa nostra doesn't belong on the cover of times magazine"

The feds were able to get Cutler removed as Gotti's lawyer, I was wondering how others felt about that from a legal perspective?

It wouldn't have made a difference. The tapes were too damning.

I don't understand why guys keep adding that he loved the limelight and that he didn't know much about the white collar crimes? It's almost as if they either aren't reading the responses of the preceding posters or are just feeling the need to add their repetitive two cents. I'm all for participation here, but c'mon man, add something of value that we haven't heard or read yet. It's just annoying reading more of the same, just worded a little differently.

This has been my view all along. Sure, Castellano was a white collar type who stayed indoors, but he was a good businessman.

Even Dellacroce, when he got passed over for the boss role, told Gotti that maybe a Castellano 'banker' type of boss was now the way forward.

Gotti was way too visible and flashy. LCN had become massive and maybe the job was too big for him. He didn't hide his 'secret society' activities very well... and he was probably more greedy than big Pauly himself!

When Gotti went down he took half the capos with him. He was a hardcore gangster but not too bright plus the big ego. Going down because of a rat is one thing but talking about past murders on bugs a few years after the commission case that was built on bugs? After the commission case I believe he was the only boss whose case was built on bugs.

gotti was boss all of 86 87 88 89 90. he must have made 60 new guys. 1 nite in 86 scarpa tells the feds gotti made his brother Pete and 12 other guys. probably all the guys in his crew that killed big Paul but gotti brought a lot of new blood into the family even cefulo the boss today. remember in Sammy books were gotti told chin he has about 40 guys to make an chin says that my biz. they were having making ceromys every 2 months. do we know if he ever striped capos that were from Paul's time. I don't think he ever striped nino. think gotti like he shot a cop.nino was a Gangster.

really? i was always under the impression but he was very "fair" and less greedy boss in general, especially compared to castellano.

Your impression is correct. I have no idea why the other poster stated that he was probably more greedy than Paulie other than the fact that he's just stating his misguided opinion. All of these guys are greedy when it comes down to it. Its hard not to be when you have easy money and lots of it flowing into your coffers. But if you put up comparisons as to who was most greedy, Gotti, I believe as do many others based on facts and testimony of others who knew and dealt with him, would be well below Paulie on the greed meter. That is a view that really has not been disputed throughout the years. Hell, he was always accusing others of having green eyes and one could say that the accuser is the most guilty of the accusation but again, all evidence and opinion of the mans MO leads one to the conclusion that no, he was not as if not moreso greedy than Paulie.

JG wanted to get caught and put away, the power/$$$, gambling addiction, and media exposure went to JG and his family's heads-and to Gravano too, and JG wasn't cut out for any sort of leadership position.

Frankly, who even wanted the top "Boss of Bosses" job after Gotti fell? Too much heat.

I still believe Gotti was motivated by greed, and by simple ambition. He was also motivated by jealousy and by bitterness over Dellacroce getting snubbed in favour of Paul.

In fact, I think the Castellano hit wasn't even officially sanctioned or approved by all five families? (Was it four?)

Neil tried to tell Gotti that maybe it was time to move towards slick, sophisticated white collar crime to usher in a new era of LCN and drift away from blue collar or street thuggery because the world was changing and many of the guys in the mob at the time were getting older.

Gotti was sentenced to life in prison and that was where he died.. such a good boss.

I agree with you that Gotti was motivated by greed. They all are to a certain degree. None of these guys have altogether altruistic reasons for doing what they do. What I took issue with is that your comment stated that maybe he was even more greedy than Paulie. To that I say no. Why do you state thst? At least give some reasons and examples to back up a statement like that because it just isn't a statement that's really made or accepted.

let us say he was no paul castellano. he was too much in the spotlight. la casa nostra is supposed to be secretive not on the cover of time magazine.

It's not 'la casa nostra' or our house, it's 'cosa nostra' our thing.

Also Frank Costello was on Time magazine:

Great magazine were did you find that picture

We're did you find that picture of time magazine that's a great copy.

I found it on ebay.

Not so sure about that. Gotti did what he had to do to survive. If he was wrong for having to murder Castellano, then that stems from him being wrong for joining the mafia in the first place which put him in a position to have to kill to survive.



Gotti more of a businessman than a mob boss? I'm not sure he was a perfect model of either. To tell the truth, he wasn't even that good of a soldier. Couldn't earn like the rest of the kleptos. Probably should have been an honest construction worker making legitimate income than trying to be a gangster/earner/boss/whatever.



He probably didn't have much choice. Someone on this forum said that when Gotti made himself Boss, he didn't even know who all the capos were, nor who the soldiers were who answered to them. Therefore everyone probably was made to come down to the Ravenite to kiss him just so he could see who the hell was in his family. On top of that, his was a violent coup. So that necessitated him testing each capo to make them bow and show obeisance....to discover who was his enemy of course. So that's another reason everyone was made to come down to the Ravenite and bow down.

A Boss' power is his ability to summon capos and soldiers and compel them to appear at his whim, under circumstances of his choosing, not theirs. That is the only thing that strikes fear in the troops. That is the only thing protecting a Boss from his family. So Gotti exercised that constantly out of paranoia.



RICO did him in. Wiretapping did him in. He stepped into Paul Castellano's shoes and got indicted exactly like his predecessor. Do we say that Paul Castellano "set this thing of Ours back 100 years"? No we don't. But he was going to be indicted and imprisoned for 100 years wasn't he.



Either Casso tried to kill him or he didn't. Saying the cameras were there and that's why you couldn't make an attempt is not an effort. Otherwise we should have seen Gotti ducking from bombs and bullets while being hounded by paparazzi.

Would Casso have gotten him eventually? Maybe. Or maybe the Chin. Maybe Sammy and/or DeCicco. If Gotti had not gone to jail, he would have probably been whacked.

He was never really the legitimate Boss of the Gambinos in the first place.

Rocco.....

great post alfa, especially about him not being a legitimate boss, that's what a lot of people don't realize about this clown,

I would judge a boss by the way he leaves his family. when he is imprisoned. bad enough he left the gambinos like a baby leaves a diaper. but, then he appoints his retard son as boss?

how much better that family would have been if that fatso would have been whacked? possibly would have saved a lot of guys from serving prison terms.

We had this same discussion on another forum years back. One of the guys was from Gotti's neighborhood so I'm going to speak for him.

John Gotti may have been considered a terrible boss by many but to his neighborhood he was considered a "True Godfather".
The residents of Ozone Park and Howard Beach regarded him as a gentleman, a guardian angel, a class act, and a terrific guy.

John Gotti kept his neighborhood safe. "A man of the people" Gotti would frequent many of the small shops in his neighborhood always smiling a saying hello. He was a man who held respect and honor to the highest degree. He was a true Godfather in the sense that he gave back to his community. Residents would go to him when in need. He gave money to the folks who had lost their jobs, he paid for a child's operation that his parents couldn't afford. He took care of the neighborhood, HIS neighborhood. Many remember the Fourth of July parties that Gotti used to throw on 101st Ave complete with a barbecue feast and fireworks. He took care of everyone because of his love for his neighborhood. He had real old world family values.

Unlike other mob bosses, Gotti had the support of the local people. The government feared this. The government put their two cents in by saying he was the worst mob boss ever. They claim he was too flashy and that brought attention to him and cosa nostra. Bullshit! The government went after every mobster flashy or not. They want you to go out like a mouse like most members did. Not John though. Also, the government railroaded Gotti's lawyer Bruce Cutler. They basically said he hung out with the Gambino's/Gotti too much and got thrown off the case. When you're in trouble with the government you better have your council around. Mr. Cutler was great, blocked all the governments not so legal tactics. That's why they threw him off the case. The fix was in and in full effect. Like John said it took 80 million dollars 3 lying murders to put him in jail. I believe John Gotti when he said, "You won't see another guy like me even if you live to be 5000 years old." John won because he spent all his healthy years as a gangster. He brought his own family fame and fortune. His last few years he was sick and died. Who had to take care of him the Government . Johnny Boy is free.



Gotti may have been a lot of things, but in the end he took his punishment like a man. He went in and did his time.


Gotti's own words:
This is gonna be a cosa nostra 'til I die. Be it an hour from now, or be it tonight, or a hundred years from now when I'm in jail. It's gonna be a cosa nostra.

I never lie to any man because I don't fear anyone. The only time you lie is when you are afraid.

When I was able to "graduate from the gutter" I took myself out of the gutter. I advanced myself. I told you my life was dictated for me, I didn't dictate my life.

I'm a man's man. I'm here to take my medicine.

Right now I'm cursed. I am stuck in this jail and that's the end of it...
Ya know there's nuttin I can do about it

Allegedly, when the priest came in to give him Last Rites, Gotti unable to talk due to the cancer, motioned for the priest to go away.

In the end, John Gotti died with HONOR. That's all that mattered to him. It was "Cosa Nostra" til he took his last breath.



This hat was approved and passed out throughout the neighborhood to show the public support for Mr. John Gotti.

I totally understand when people say Gotti gave his crime family members away to the government- due to making them show up at the Ravenite each week

But I believe Gotti realised early on that meeting mob members 3am in the morning wasn't going to work. Not only does he have to meet a ton of guys but no matter where he went, he was trailed by the FEDS or news media.

If he did meet someone, again it'd have to be somewhere in a building or after hours club. So he's back to square 1, being in a building is perfect place to get bugged as so many mobsters found out

Ok he could meet them 3am in the morning and go for a walk talk. Again, back to square one. The Feds and news media will be filming away hence no matter where he met them in secret or not, they would be filming him anyway

Factor in rats too, no matter where he meets an underling, there's a risk the feds are watching

On top of that, Gotti was no Big Paul. In that Paul isolated himself from many mobsters within the family, and only met a few key men who were making him money.

That is why Paul was so resented because he didn't show appreciation for the blue collar guys.

Gotti knew this and that's why it was important for him to meet various capos and soldiers alike, there's only so many hours in the early hours. And impossible to fit each guy in. And even if he did, he'd have the same problems he faced by meeting them outside the Ravenite.

He was never really the legitimate Boss of the Gambinos in the first place. [/quote]

I don't happen to think that Gotti did a particularly fantastic job as a boss and he definitely left the family worse off than when he got there so I'm no Gotti sympathizer but this is not correct.

Following the Castellano hit, with both the boss and underboss dead, two meetings were held and chaired but Joe Gallo, who as consigliore held the highest ranking position in the Gambino's at the time...so I guess the balance of power.

All capos attended these meetings. The first was to alert the captains to situation and tell them they were making enquires.
The second about a week later, was to vote in a new boss. DeCicco nominated Gotti and he was unanimously voted in by all capos. He immediately appointed DeCicco underboss and announced he was retaining Gall as his consig.

Although the circumstances were probably very ominous with everybody in attendance knowing it was Gotti and co. who were behind the move, protocol was followed and that was the time for any capos who thought otherwise to nominate an alternative as boss. Envoys were then sent to the other family's to notify them of the change in administration. That's as legitimate as it gets.

I believe it was Gravano who said the only captain not there that night was Nino Gaggi.

Sammy would never have made a move against Gotti. he himself admits this, after Frankie came to him with the proposal.

Like sammy says,' I made a list of all the guys I needed to kill in order to get away with it. I came up with 10, 12 guys. Some of them I really liked, like Gene. The thought of killing his son killed me. '

Sammy would never have generated the support to take over and I'll tell u why. Yes he had a tough crew but he was too GREEDY!!! The soldiers and capos liked Gotti as boss (not because they personally liked him) rather he wasn't greedy. And didn't demand a big cut. But with Sammy as boss, he'd sink his teeth into every money making scheme for himself and the other family members knew this.

All the people that have said Sammy would make a good boss are delusional. He would have made deals with the Chin worse than Paul did if it meant making more money!

Alfanosgirl, that was a beautiful post about John Gotti.

I don't purport to judge him as a person. That's not my place.

When I said that he was better off going legitimate, that was my way of saying that he probably wasn't meant to be a wiseguy, he was meant to be legit, like a family man.

You can't help but feel for Gotti when you heard him complain that being Italian held his kind back and that was his excuse for going the illegal route. Maybe when he was coming up that was true, but probably no longer true by the time he became the self appointed boss of the Gambinos.

Please forgive my choice of words. When I say that Gotti was not the legitimate Boss of the Gambinos, I meant exactly that, based on the idea that he didn't have Commission approval to ascend to take control of a Borgata. I didn't mean to imply that he was horrible at being a Boss.

Yes, he was voted in by a majority of Caporegimes, but that is only the smaller part of what makes a Boss legit. The Commission needed to approve Big Paul's removal, which it didn't.

alfa, so true, so true, the commission is what counts.

tony tough, Sammy was always about money, he had to one of the greediest mobsters ever. I think he got what he deserves. I hope he never gets out.

That was due to the Kefauver Hearings, not because Costello was strutting around NYC like a peacock.

Did the Commission approve of Albert Anastasia's hit? Does that mean Carlo Gambino wasn't a legitimate boss, which by extension made Paul Castellano an illegitimate boss.

I wasn't there, but by the way the story reads, it seems yes. Or maybe they were about to (at Appalachin) but someone prevented that.



Well, the Commission accepted Carlo as an Acting Boss for a probationary 3 year period, and then accepted his being made official after that. The Capos were with him. The Commission was with him.

Whoever killed Anastasia, and for whatever reason, the Commission put their stamp of approval on it. Maybe we don't have an official explanation of the Anastasia hit because that was one of the topics that was meant to be discussed at Appalachin?

Was Paul Castellano legitimate? Carlo appointed him and the Commission accepted him, but did the Caporegimes vote for him? Not sure about that one.

I don't remember reading about a commission vote on killing Anastasia. Commission acceptance afterward isn't in the rules. If that's what happened then Gambino wasn't legit and his appointment of Castellano would not be legit.

I don't think there was ever a vote either. But I think it was discussed. Whoever did it had support in more than one family.

Now to hit someone and then explain afterwards, I'm not sure if that went against the rules. I don't think it did. Anastasia used that ruse to keep himself from being whacked right after Mangano disappeared. He made specious arguments...after the fact. Bill Bonanno also spoke about a soldier who was wronged and asked for permission to whack the ones who wronged him. Supposedly Joe Bonanno told him that he should have killed the perpetrators first, then come before the administration to explain. Since he did not do so, it was too late for revenge. So explanations after the fact do have their place when a person is seen as important enough to be given a chance to explain.

I can't believe we're having this conversation about John Gotti as a person.

Aside from the obvious, the guy had his neighbor kidnapped, beaten and dissolved in a vat of acid!

I don't care how many old women he helped cross the road in front of the paps to get good PR. There is plenty of evidence to the contrary that he was no Robin Hood.

Honestly I wonder if the media is partly to blame for this.... Stockholm Syndrome? I don't know what you would call it - glamorisation of such an incendiary figure.

Alfanosgirl, does Gotti's "Old fashioned family values" and "Class act" include fucking the daughter of his friend Neil Dellacroce ???

I am one of the few that say gotti was a decent boss. I mean, who are we comparing him to; guys from the 1950's who basically walked through the city with the words "mafia boss" on their back because law enforcement lacked any effective technology and back then, law enforcement could be bought much easier. Carlo Gambino, Joe colombo, and all the others wouldnt last 5 years on the street with todays laws and technology. Does anyone think Merlino was a better boss???? Really, no comparison. We could mention Ligambi's tenure but he was basically a bookmaker and loan shark. Gotti controlled industries and controlled a MUCH larger group of men/ family. Whether gotti was flashy or not, the end result would be the same: life in prison. His days on the street would have been the same number give or take a year. The Gambino's may have a lower key boss now because they dont control nearly as much and dont have nearly as many guys,
Years ago michael chernoff said the governments goal was to break the mob down to basically a gambling and loan sharking organization. Almost a street gang type status. I believe they are almost there.
Back to gotti. He was loved by most of his guys, respected, and made everyone money. I guess joe colombo and bill bonanno were low profile....lol

Castellano and Gravano were intelligent enough to transcend the mafia. Guys like Corrao owned businesses. Guys like De Meo and Gaggi made more money.

Gotti was a degenerate gambler and hellraiser who strong armed his way into the hotseat with the help of having Dellacroce's ear.

Gotti had a magnetic personality, granted, but he had no nous and he did the family more harm in the long-term than any positive effects he had in the short-term.

Gravano was a sociopath that had 19 people killed.. He would have been a good boss????
Castellano would have been convicted had he not been killed.
DeMeo lived the last few years of his life paranoid and strung out on coke..
Gotti made millions for himself and those around him.

Was Gotti not piggy backing on others, including Castellano, and Gravano too, though?

De Meo, before he knew he was going to get whacked, was a monster money maker and helped mold guys like Testa and Senter who went on to be recruited by the Lucchese's. Not many of the guys close to De Meo ratted either - Borelli, Rosenberg, Testa and Senter.

Gravano as boss? Who knows? It was Gotti who dragged Gravano & LoCascio with him. Gravano was a crafty, industrious guy and he didn't play chicken with the Feds. Yes, his problem was insatiable greed. He did order and influence hits but what boss didn't? How many he personally participated in is debatable.

Castellano made milions for himself and those around him.Neil fraction was not capable for sophisticated crime,they were bunch of idiots and leg brakers.The west side today is n7mber 1 because of white crime.The money Gotti had was thanks to Gravano.john his son,his brother bunch of idiots.I personally don't care one way or anothe but Gotti's brought the familly down.He was no boss my friend.And Demeo never did coke

i second..along with he is the best man for at least 5k years. gotti broke every rule..alfanosgirl..you must be one of gottis grand kids..so i will not hurt your feelings..he was your relative.

Demeo started doing coke later.. Gotti made a lot of money, that whole crew made a lot with gambling, loan sharking, and of course heroin.
Castellano was going to be convicted and sent away for life. As far as castellano making a lot of money for those around him; thats why he was able to be killed, he was greedy and gotti used that as an excuse.
Gravano wasnt the biggest earner, the gambinos had trucking, unions, and other things gravano didnt have..gravno made a lot, no doubt.

This thread literally lessens my will to live.

They weren't making that much,the Gotti crew,if they were they would not deal heroin.There's only so much you can make bookmak and loansh.The guy was a plumber and wore 2000 dollar suits,drove in a limo with an entorage.Is that smart?The bensonhurst part of thr family were the biggest earners Jimmy brown,frank decicco,Gravano even Patsy Conte who was a profilic drug dealer.They all made 3 times what gotti made and you couldn't ever see it on them.
Now thats smart.You can't tell me that john jr and Peter were not idiots.Me personally would put Decicco on top or Jimmy brown and gotti underboss.I don't know how Frankie didn't get the top spot.

Thanks for replying TonyTough,

Sammy Gravano was (and might still be) a very conflicted person. He is the type that will lie and believe his own lies. For him to say he would not have tried to kill Gotti, coming from him, that means nothing. Sammy is very unstable. We know Sammy has some kind of heart because we've seen him tear up on TV, but we know he has no morals because of his history. He is not proud to be a murderer...he might actually be ashamed of it, but I don't think he could stop killing on his own. I regard him as an impulsive killer that kills because he's compelled to. He might be addicted to killing, like people smoke cigarettes and can't stop.

Oh, BTW, I think he whacked his business partners and took their wealth not only because of greed, but also because he was just a compulsive killer. It's naive to think that someone like Sammy would stop killing once he made enough money.

I don't think Sammy could ever have enough money. Gotti should have whacked him

Mulberry, it would have been a great move on gottis part, if he would have had demeos boys carve gravano up.

gotti might have beat that last case,and never died in jail, I don't know why gotti didn't smell that rat sooner.

There's a a good case to be made that Gotti created Gravano as a rat.

Lets all remember that Gotti was caught ON TAPE bad mouthing and BLAMING Gravano for the DiBernardo, Milito and Dibono hits.

Now this is before the indictment.

Gotti sanctioned EVERYONE of those hits and was caught dead to rights blaming Gravano for them.

If you're UB and your BOSS sells you down the stream when then Feds have yet to knock on your door, its understandable to lose more than a little faith.

Im not saying that justifies turning rat, but it sure as hell paints it in a different light...

EDIT: Its not beyond reasonable to believe Gravano wouldve never ratted if not for Gotti's 'self-ratting' on those tapes. IE Gravano wouldve done his stretch if not for those tape's.

I think Gravano would have ratted either way. He had never been to prison before and was facing life. From reading his own book I thought he was a weasel.

sonny. you bring up an interesting question. on the tapes if gotti was leaning toward clipping Sammy, that could have been the reason Sammy flipped

however he was such a murdering low life, I go along with mulberry. he was a dog looking out only for his own skin.

Makes sense, SonnyBlackstein. Sammy said it was those tapes that made him decide to flip. That could of been a half-truth. It wasn't Gotti badmouthing him that made Gravano decide to flip, but that Gotti was caught on tape saying they were involved in the murders. He new he had to shot at seeing freedom and ratted.

Well, when you look at it that way, John Gotti was going to jail anyway and Sammy just got out of the way. Sammy did in the other people he took down, but not Gotti. Gotti convicted himself.

Let's not forget that- even if by a miracle gotti and sammy beat the case, Sammy himself said that one of the reasons he flipped was because from the tapes, he knew he'd have problems with gotti down the line

gotti was clearly unhappy with him and Sammy knew he wouldn't win a war with gotti.

Also, side note.

I keep reading previous posts about "how dumb a boss gotti was" that he wasn't a smart boss

I agree to some extent but according to Sammy's own words, despite him thrashing gotti every chance he got

Sammy agreed on one thing," oh no, john was SMART, no question about it"

He was smart in solidifying his power in the family by knocking guys down keeping guys close to him like jojo, John giordano

I happen to think Sammy would have flipped regardless. He may have pulled a Leonetti by rolling the dice at trial and then contacting the government if convicted.
These guys who say " they flipped for their kids"; perhaps they did but why not change for their kids before they ever were arrested..

Some of these mob kids don't seem to have any qualms with the way their fathers lived life. Some of them don't seem to want to make their own way in life. Some of them try to profit on their fathers killing, extorting and taking advantage of their own. Worst case scenario some follow in their fathers footsteps.

That's one of the things I loved about The Sopranos. Tony's children loved him but they were disengaged with him and his lifestyle, and Meadow fought him tooth and nail over it.

That's something (one of the things) Sopranos has over Breaking Bad and The Wire. Better defined, more well rounded female characters and stronger acting.

Carmela and Gloria had some great scenes with Tony.

Sorry for going on one tangent and ending on another.

I don't think he was a good boss. He had charm and according to other mobsters he was a good negotiator. Now, he had a vision to become boss much like Lucky Luciano - only Luciano didn't f*ck the family the way Gotti did. Gotti seemed to enjoy the public and wasn't very secrative - still hanging around in his social club, where he had been sitting for years before? - Also he put his idiot kid in as acting boss, and his much more idiot brother Peter...who tried to extort Steven Segal - remember that?

Gotti made a great story in the mafia lengeds tho.

Yeah it's funny how young kids throughout the world that want to put up some kind of online cringe wannabe gangster facade always refer to him, one of the worst bosses in Gambino history. Now credit must be given when it's due: Gotti was memorable. None of the young kids today know who Carlo Gambino was, but they're all over Gotti.

A few Dapper Don videos.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y2d0_UFxTwc&feature=player_embedded

http://www.ahctv.com/tv-shows/mafias-gre...-teflon-don.htm

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x106f9d_john-gotti-mafia-boss-gambino-crime-family_news .

IIRC, Gravano in the 60 minutes interview he did (which is fantastic for people like us), said something along the lines of "If John had even one time apologized for what was on those tapes, I'd be doing life instead of sitting here right now".

Maybe somebody can find the direct quote

He said that in his book.

That's the point, though. It's NOT a good thing for the general public to know who you are. The Mafia gained power by staying in the shadows as much as possible (amongst many other reasons).

anyone involved with the castellano hit was going to die..sammy never would has been spared..gotti decicco gravano angelo r. gene gotti. borrielo, lino..plus a few others were never going to live..gas pipe flipping saved whom ever was left..if sammy killed john..within a few months he would have been set up..

Well put

I Gotti go.

I was going to make a joke but I forgotti what it was.