Would Gaggi Have Survived With Gotti As Boss?

Something I was always wondering about, with DeMeo and Castellano dead do you suppose then that Gotti would of had Gaggi killed if he hadn't already been indicted and convicted?

Absolutely

I dont think so. Gotti said any Castellano loyalist that fell in line wounldt be harmed...plus Gaggi was a powerhouse (even without Demeo and Paul)...LCN needs/needed guys like Gaggi

Yea and by the time castellano was dead him and gaggi weren't so close
Because of the Demeo case

John would have left him as a capo

There was a beef with a landlord and a soldier in ninos crew told gotti to have the soldier bring John gotti to a sit down and John said " bring me, hes under me tell him get his ass up here to see me

I read some where the bull talking to maybe gotti he's lucky pauls gone cause after trial paul wanted him dead. gravano said this on tape this isn't a hard find I think its in the gotti transcript book. he;s not talking to gaggi there but they had the convo.

Gaggi was definitely no fan of Gotti but he wasn't stupid. More than likely he would have pledged fealty to John just as everyone else did. I could see Gaggi being in Frankie Loc's position as underboss in '92 if he hadn't have gone to jail and croaked.

Yes..you are correct pmac, it was in the Gotti Tapes

http://books.google.com/books?id=V0CfjAsrMBQC&pg=PT276

http://books.google.com/books?id=V0CfjAsrMBQC&pg=PT277

i could see nino being gravanos 20th..nino was not well like by decicco and gotti

Gaggi was a pretty tough guy. Even as a capo and guy in his 50's he still did hits (demeo, eppolitios)

I don't know if anyone here is from Brooklyn but if you ware, the Eppolito hit is exceptionally interesting if you go down to that section of Brighton Beach to see...

* first where "The Clam" & "Jim-Jim" got whacked

* where Patrick Penny would have been driving to accidentally see the hit

* where the shootout between Nino & the off duty cop took place (Neptune & Coney Island Ave I think)...

I tend to think Nino was a piece of shit for numerous reasons but there's no doubt he was tough, smart and a little bit crazy... Trying to think, how many of made guys have shot at cops like that though getting caught moments after doing a piece of work is also unusual.

cono had great seafood, yes nino was very tough..

Definately! Gaggi was a power in his own right when Gotti became Boss. I believe Gaggi hated Gotti, but would have fell in-line and continued to operate as a powerhouse.

Castellano was mad at Nino, but I do not believe he would have had him killed. Gaggi was a powerhouse with strong connections to the Sicilian faction of the Gambino family. Gotti got luckey and dodged a few attemps on his life that were meant for him by the Genovese, the Lucchese crime families, Danny Marino and Jimmy Brown after the Castellano hit. Gotti would have left Nino alone and let him serve out his sentence, he would not have wanted to deal with an inner family fued if he killed Gaggi. Gotti wanted to stablize the Gambino crime family and killing Nino would have ignited that war. Most likely John would have left Gaggi as Capo so he could make a peaceful grab for boss of the family without angering the other skippers and members of the family.

gotti would have killed nino in a heartbeat, gotti was more treacherous than most people give him credit for. gaggi was no neil.

I don't think nino liked or respected gotti. gaggi was firmly in the Castellano wing and gotti in the "other" faction with Neil.
He was the only capo not present at the dinner meetings where gotti announced they were investigating pauls murder and then when Decicco proposed gotti as boss. Ive read several times where he wouldn't go meet with gotti and I think it may have been in underboss?? that gotti was getting annoyed by gaggi not fronting.
Whatever the case, Castellano was clipped in Dec 85, Gotti got uped in Jan 86 and Gaggi was convicted and jailed in April 86 so he was only on the street for a couple of months with JG as boss.

Yes,and i think Gotti wasn't affraid of Gaggi because Roy was long gone.What happened to Nino's crew.It seems it was broken up.Any thoughts?

Gotti wasn't the most trigger happy of bosses was he? Gravano was responsible for the Milito, Di Bernardo and Di Bono hits.

Yeah Gotti wasn't as much of a killer that Gravano was.Also wasn't as greedy.

You are correct. Gotti was a tough guy BUT he wasnt much of a hitman/killer. He usually just gave out orders to whackings and didnt really participate besides the Mcbratney and possibly the Tony Plate killings

There has been some great discussion on this board with regards to Gotti and what kind of boss he was. But it seems, and I don't know this but am asking the more experienced posters, that he wasn't as greedy as other bosses or his predecessor. Is that true?

Powerhouses that were wacked - Johnny Roberts , Mimi scialo, Frank Scalise ,Andimo papaddio , Sally Burns , DB from Gambino family , Lil Augie ect.

NINO was not a captain at this time…he was on thin ice..

There are only two choices I think, Nino either got in line or he would have made a power play. With Castellano gone though, I think he would have gotten in line.

paul was close to killing nino..only thing that saved him was their families were close..

graveno was evil..john thought saying no to killing was a weakness, and sammy was killing his own guys, john's non actions to stop graveno made him a bad leader..he should have killed sammy instead of talking about it in a bugged apt with frank loc.. he also should have let angelo die for all the rules he broke and took that family into turmoil..i.e. drugs killing paul,, trying to kill the under boss of another family..getting that kid tortured..robbing captains and killing for money..angelo was a street thug..not coda rostra..nino knew the life..and lived it.

The Gemini Twins killed DeMeo on Gaspipe's orders.

And wasn't Gotti supposed to have whacked Tommy DeSimone?

That's not proven it was on casso's orders but it probably is.Him or Frank decicco.And Gotti probablly didn't shot Desimone himself

What do you think of Josip Simunic, alexandarns?

I don't give a damm really..why you ask?

I think that if Antonino Gaggi would not have been indicted and died in prison, that Gotti would have been hit and replaced with Nino as Boss.

My opinion is that Nino as somewhat of an old school Sicilian had solid backing from the Sicilians that used to run the Gambinos before Gotti (not a Sicilian), and also possibly Sicilian Bosses from other families. Nino was adamant about the Gambino family being a Sicilian run enterprise. Anyone who remembers what Nino said to Roy Demeo in Murder Machine agrees. Nino told Roy that only Sicilians can become Capos in the Gambino family, and that was at the moment Roy got made. So Nino was clearly upset about Gotti, a Neopolitan, rubbing out a Sicilian Boss without majority consensus from the Commission authorizing him to do so.

No, I think Nino and Gigante and many others would have eventually gotten rid of Gotti and installed a Sicilian Boss, probably Nino himself. When Nino summoned Gotti to a meeting, he was sending a signal to the Gambino family that he was the new power.

I read the links you posted pmac. It looks like Gravano was having the conversation with Nino about Paul's supposed intentions.

Call me a conspiracy theorist if you like, but I think Gravano was playing "divide and conquer" against Nino and Big Paul. Gotti and Gravano feared Nino and so had to disarm him by putting it in his head that Paul was going to whack him and to just let Paul get whacked...by whomever, conveniently leaving out that they themselves (Gravano and Gotti) were going to be the very ones to whack Big Paul.

I very much doubt that Big Paul planned to whack Nino once Nino's trial was over.

Frank decicco was captain and he was no Sicilian.I don't think that Jimmy brown was sicilian.Even anastasia was not a sicilian,he was calabrian.So that's a huge load of crap.And if anybody was to be boss instead of Gotti it was Jimmy Brown Faila,not Gaggi.

The mere and simple fact that Gotti couldn't call Nino in to a meeting speaks volumes. Technically that made them enemies, but Gotti couldn't reach Nino to enforce rules of conduct befitting a Caporegime.

Million Dollar Question: Who broke him? Big Paul or Gotti?

He went to jail anyway so it dosen't matter.Nino was a badass,he would die with the gun in his hand.TGotti knew he shot the police officer,what do Ou think he would done to gotti or one of his guys.Real old school mf,laat of his generation

Paul

Nino was tough guy and knew that life as good as anyone, but not willing to die for a demotion or gotti being boss, he was playing the hand that was dealt.shame he had to die inMCC like that..nino was in great shape worked out everyday for years..stress can kill you..

I read where chin galente was very uset with gotti for the hit on castellano, big question. why didn't chin make a move on him? after the hit on paul. gotti really brought the heat down.

He did make a move. The car bomb that killed DeCicco was meant for Gotti, too. If the two families wouldn't have been tied up in a bunch of RICO stuff in the late eighties and early nineties, Gotti may have ended up being killed sooner or later.

lino and borriello

good point, chin was a much more intelligent man than gotti, personaly I thought gotti was very lucky some boss didn't whack him, he brought needless heat on all the families, I thought gotti was a dog, too bad chin missed.

they killed paul for nothing ,,he was going to get life..then they could have voted him down ,went to the commission laid out a case vs paul and said this is the will of our family.. might have worked..

In my opinion, gotti was UNDERestimated. You dont become boss of the most powerful family in the US because you are stupid. Truth is, gotti had a lot of leadership skills. Stone killers did whatever he said and street guys ( young and old) admired him. Every single boss of every family went down in the 1980's, not just Gotti. Gotti would of had maybe another 2 weeks on the street if he didnt get caught talking??? I mean really. The Us government wanted him. That was that.
Castellano was smart, he was caught in a bug. Tony Ducks was smart, he got caught on a bug. Scarfo never was caught on a bug and look where he is and either did casso and amuso. Look at all the heat chin gigante brought on the west side by walking around in a robe in plain sight. What about Tony Salerno talking outside his club in east harlem with various members. It was the media that gave LE such a hard on for gotti, they turned him into a movie star and The feds hated that.

The only reason Carlo Gambino died at home was because law enforcement lacked the technology they had for gotti. Today, no matter how low key carlo was, he would be in supermax.

there is a lot of truth to what you say, but, to my mind gotti just didn't play it smart, too much ego, he made himself a target. but the worst thing he every did was appoint his son boss. now that was not the smarest thing he ever did.

I have always wondered why more capos did not respond like Nino and refuse to bow down to Gotti. You got guys like Gaggi, Conte, Jimmy Brown, Marino and others who are supposed to be pretty strong and have been with the family for so long and they just laid down and let Gotti take over the family. At the meeting of the capos to decide on the new boss Gravano says him and Fat Ange walked behind the capos as they were seated for intimidation factor. Why were these guys that were so powerful so afraid of these clowns. They sat back and let Gotti take over the family and then run it into the ground and at no point did they try to do anything about it.

john did not take over the family alone, he had his crew.. all killers, decicco's crew all killers bklyn faction, sammy's crew all killers, frankie loc,bronx artuso was on the hit, he had piney and his crew, conte , gambino's, were heroin guys, gotti's crew were heroin dealers, paul played the you get killed for dealing.. the coup, had many other guys from different crews that were fed up with paul..nino was in trouble with paul..joe gallo was in their camp, the only push back fialla, marino and a few others could do, is just what happened sit back while chin and corrallo worked out the hits vs;s the coup. gotti was wrong for killing paul without permission, funny on tape he says cosa nostra till i die..he broke every rule of cosa nostra . i hope this gives some clarity..

There was also grumblings that he could have possibly flipped as well though, and when there is a question you can give it up. Many thought he became soft in his old age and with him so much in love with that nasty unibrow Colombian he was screwing and many thought there was no way he took a life sentence sitting down.

big paul flip? that would of been something. paul just wasn't on top of his familys goings on, he really should have been more street smart, he played right into gottis hands, gotti had to kill him or he would have to have answered to all his crews drug dealings.

Yes I think it was possible, after all look at Joey Massino. Many thought he would never flip either.

When the mafia needs to kill someone without a good enough reason the ..he may rat ..stuff starts..easiest way to justify killing..paul would never have flipped..my opinion..

would have died in jail like the rest of the bosses all nice and rich.

Where did you hear that Dixie? I've never heard that Paul might have flipped as a reason for his demise.

yes, that rumor was there after paul was killed..just nonsense..

Gotti was an idiot.

Gotti broke every rule? Well, chin sanctioned a hit on gotti with approval.
Chin had casso use a car bomb, thats clearly a rule breaker.
Every boss is dumb in hindsight. The old timers only seemed smart because law enforcement didnt have technology.
You can also say Merlino was,dumb, he broke the rules and now gets caught on a violation.
The worse boss in my opinion was Natalie. Gotti was a hundred levels above.

im with you. of all I read about him and the Gambino family, he stands alone as the absolute most ignorant boss who ever ran a family, the damage he did to the gambinos was horrific. how could anyone excuse his idiotic behavior.

what would you think if someone told you this.. "if you lived to 5000 you will never find a guy like me" natale was not recognized by gambinos

Nateale was a putz. We all know who ran that family. How can someone be straightened out one minute and elevated to boss the next?

one reason why NY paid him no mind

fialla was very sicilian

So was Stanfa and look at the what he did whith Previte and some of the other shit he stirred up in philly.

I’d seen John Gotti a couple of months before at a Pop Warner football game. The coach had cut his son Frankie from the starting lineup because he was overweight. John drove out to the game and raised hell about it. It was hard to believe that the coach didn’t know who John was, but he didn’t back down. He said Frankie was a good player, but he was out of shape and huffing and puffing in practice. The coach said he’d put Frankie back in, but he needed to trim down first. The coach stuck to his guns and Frankie stayed on the bench.

John was furious. He pulled me aside and said he was going to take care of that f------ coach. He was dead serious. He wanted to whack the Pop Warner football coach. I realized he was just like Dominic. He thought whacking guys was the solution to any problem.

Sal Polisi

so right. privet .i still have a problem believing he made him..anyone every say they know for sure he was made?>

Supposedly he didn't go thru the ceremony but was told he was straightened out by Stanfa. And if my memory serves me right Joey M also recognized him as made/ Maybe some othe phily guys can shed some light on this.

thank you shooter, no ceremony… equals not made..was he also a cop at one time? philly guys anyone around?

Yes, he was a cop before

maybe that's why he did not make him go through the oath,he took one as a cop and did not want him to get confused .

by the time gotti became boss gaggi had his own very serious problems. He would have bowed to gotti if he ever got out. He was a badass though, shootout w cops, control over demeo, killed a guy 12 yrs after he got beat up in a street fight. Vincent Governerva learned that nino gaggi never forgot

Gotti was amazed after his ascension that at least one captain—Anthony Gaggi, uncle of the carcase witness against Castellano—had not adapted to the new game. He learned this during a telephone call from a soldier reporting about a dispute involving a Brooklyn restaurant. Family members had just bought into it and the landlord wanted to check them out.

The soldier said Gaggi had told him to “bring” Gotti to a sitdown with the landlord and the new
partners.

“He’s under me!” Gotti shouted. “You tell him, [to] get his ass up here to see me!”

In the meantime, concerning the inquisitive landlord, Gotti told the soldier to tell Gaggi and the
others not to engage in any more “warning shit” until a sitdown. After all, people could be reasoned with.

“People ain’t stupid, they know what we are,” Gotti said. “So what are we gonna do? What, are we gonna worry about cops now?

Mob Star

Gotti was a degenerate gambler and his ego was bigger than his ability. It Guiliani had not gotten him, Casso, Chin, Marino, ...somebody would have. You don't piss on the commission rules and walk away. If he had been dealt with at the very beginning, then the damage he caused might have not happened.

retro guy im in total agreement. the man should have been dealt with and severly. there is absolutely no excuse for the damage the dog did. and his son is even more brainless.