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Why was Mr. Neil passed over?

Posted By: Mr_Willie_Cicci

Why was Mr. Neil passed over? - 05/31/13 08:36 PM

Why did Carlo Gambino pass over his longtime Underboss, Neil Dellacroce, in favor of Paul Castellano? Besides their relation as being cousins and brother in laws, was there any actual merit that Gambino considered?

Also, before Carlo died, did Paul and Neil BOTH serve as Underboss at the same time? I've read some charts list them as joint Underbosses in the '70s, while others list Neil as Underboss and Paul as a Capo.
Posted By: IvyLeague

Re: Why was Mr. Neil passed over? - 05/31/13 08:54 PM

There's always been speculation that Gambino felt Castellano had more ability to lead the family into more white collar, legitimate activities than Dellacroce did. Another possibility was simple nepotism.
Posted By: Giancarlo

Re: Why was Mr. Neil passed over? - 05/31/13 09:03 PM

Wasn't Castellano basically running things for Carlo the last few years before Gambino died? Should of been obvious i would think that Big Paul was his guy.

I also agree with what Ivy said that Gambino probably believed Castellano was the better choice to take the family into more profitable white collar crime and legit activities. And actually i think Paul was the better choice at that time. Too bad Johnny Boy didn't like it but thats the way it was.
Posted By: Lenin_and_McCarthy

Re: Why was Mr. Neil passed over? - 05/31/13 09:05 PM

And around that time Neil was in jail on tax evasion.
Posted By: F_white

Re: Why was Mr. Neil passed over? - 05/31/13 09:17 PM

Maybe the future was white collars and not the street.And paul was the leader for that.
Posted By: elmwoodparker

Re: Why was Mr. Neil passed over? - 05/31/13 11:53 PM

The future was and still is in white collar, not blue collar. Castellano was a very smart guy. It was too bad he got killed. Gotti was a good dresser with his suits and ties, but was a weak leader. There is very little future in the street rackets, especially ones that involve possible violence and/or muscle. The minute it happens, the victim runs to the Feds and that's the beginning of the end.
Posted By: Louiebynochi

Re: Why was Mr. Neil passed over? - 06/01/13 12:03 AM

Number 1 Neil and Carl weren't very close
Neil was appointed strictly to keep everybody in the family happy

Carl kept EVERYTHING in the family as much as possible

But most of all Neil passed himself over
If he wanted to be the boss he could have been
He just respected Carl's whishes as even though not close there was a lot of mutual respect

Also Remember Neil was in jail 74 and 75, in 75 Paulie was made acting boss
So he had all his bearings too from having been there in the spot for a year where as Neil was fresh from the can
Posted By: JCrusher

Re: Why was Mr. Neil passed over? - 06/01/13 12:36 AM

Many reasons. First Neil wa sin jail at the time and i think carlo wanted somebody he could trust and was someone like himself. White collar crimes was the future at that point. Also Paul Castellano was not in the limelight and not around social clubs which was the smart thing. Paul Castellano didnt have too much trouble with the law until Angelo ruggiero opened his mouth
Posted By: Lou_Para

Re: Why was Mr. Neil passed over? - 06/01/13 01:00 AM

I would have to agree that Paul was the logical choice for the Family's future, as Gambino knew that the times were changing,and sophisticated semi-legit rackets were the new business opportunities. There would still be a need for leg breaking,psychotic sadists in the Family,just not in the top spot. Also Paul was both brother-in-law and first cousin to Gambino (what a world). Lastly ,there is some speculation that Neil was passed over because of his prior involvement with a made guy's wife,and that Gambino never forgot it.
Posted By: bronx

Re: Why was Mr. Neil passed over? - 06/01/13 04:39 AM

nepotism
Posted By: DickNose_Moltasanti

Re: Why was Mr. Neil passed over? - 06/01/13 04:43 AM

He looked to sad all the time
Posted By: LittleNicky

Re: Why was Mr. Neil passed over? - 06/01/13 04:57 AM

What are you guys talking about Paul Castellano like he was a great boss with a bright future before he was killed?

The dude would have died in the prison just like his comrades tony ducks, Fat Tony Salerno, the Snake (pending death) and Rusty. The case was open and shut. And he had way bigger trouble with the law before angelo- the dude was a moron that lived in a castle and allowed his phone conversations and home conversations to be recorded by the FBI. That doesn't even begin with all the clear connections to the monster Roy DeMeo.

It was fortune he was killed if anything, he might have tried to flip- considering he never really had great relationships with his street guys anyways.
Posted By: DickNose_Moltasanti

Re: Why was Mr. Neil passed over? - 06/01/13 05:02 AM

Originally Posted By: LittleNicky
What are you guys talking about Paul Castellano like he was a great boss with a bright future before he was killed?

The dude would have died in the prison just like his comrades tony ducks, Fat Tony Salerno, the Snake (pending death) and Rusty. The case was open and shut. And he had way bigger trouble with the law before angelo- the dude was a moron that lived in a castle and allowed his phone conversations and home conversations to be recorded by the FBI. That doesn't even begin with all the clear connections to the monster Roy DeMeo.

It was fortune he was killed if anything, he might have tried to flip- considering he never really had great relationships with his street guys anyways.


I agree and fbi file said had gambino's recorded badmouthing paul calling him the beakman cissypants and count dracula
Posted By: LittleNicky

Re: Why was Mr. Neil passed over? - 06/01/13 05:03 AM

Originally Posted By: JCrusher
Also Paul Castellano was not in the limelight and not around social clubs which was the smart thing. Paul Castellano didnt have too much trouble with the law until Angelo ruggiero opened his mouth


Instead he hung around his house in his silk dress, in the broad open, forcing capos to his house, discussing business and penile implants and allowing all his conversations to be taped. What a fucking genius.
Posted By: Lou_Para

Re: Why was Mr. Neil passed over? - 06/01/13 09:27 AM

I think the majority of us would agree with Little Nicky's dead-on assessment of Castellano as Boss. But to stick with the original post,at the time Paul was named successor,Carlo had no way of knowing what a whirling doofus he was passing the baton to. And even though it would have ended badly for Paul if he had lived,that wouldn't have been a factor at the time that Carlo made the decision.
Posted By: thecooler

Re: Why was Mr. Neil passed over? - 06/01/13 02:19 PM

According to one FBI informant(likely Lombardozzi), Castellano was made acting boss in 1967 at the same time Dellacroce was made underboss.

So in a way (if this report is correct), Castellano was "over" Dellacroce for sometime prior to Gambino's death(though I realize Dellacroce had lots of independence), and in the eyes of many, Castellano would have been seen to be the natural successor to Gambino. (I'm not saying Castellano was a better choice than Dellacroce).

I'm guessing too that Gambino figured that Castellano as boss would better protect the rackets of Gambino's sons.
Posted By: HairyKnuckles

Re: Why was Mr. Neil passed over? - 06/01/13 03:19 PM

Cooler, I have read your pieces on exposing informants. They are good reads. But I wanted to ask you if you have ever come across any FBI report or doc hinting Dellacroce being a paid informant?
Posted By: JCrusher

Re: Why was Mr. Neil passed over? - 06/01/13 03:35 PM

Originally Posted By: LittleNicky
Originally Posted By: JCrusher
Also Paul Castellano was not in the limelight and not around social clubs which was the smart thing. Paul Castellano didnt have too much trouble with the law until Angelo ruggiero opened his mouth


Instead he hung around his house in his silk dress, in the broad open, forcing capos to his house, discussing business and penile implants and allowing all his conversations to be taped. What a fucking genius.

Nobody said Paul wa s a great boss. I agree he was very greedy and wasnt your typical gangsters However he did it the right way especially in this day in age of wiretaps. As a boss it was smart to stay out of social clubs and not be seen on the street with all your capos. Remember the main reason why the FBI got Paul was because Ruggiero. The Ruggiero tapes gaves the FBI a reason to bug big Pauls house
Posted By: thecooler

Re: Why was Mr. Neil passed over? - 06/01/13 04:17 PM

Hairyknuckles,

No. I’ve never seen anything to indicate that Dellacroce cooperated but it wouldn’t surprise me to learn he “flirted” with the FBI at some point. (My assessment is only based on the files at MF.) I know the FBI does spread disinformation about mobsters, but the detailed newspaper article that came out after Dellacroce’s death stating he cooperated is pretty interesting. My own feeling is that the number of mobsters who dry snitched to the FBI at this time is much higher than is commonly suspected.

Nonetheless, according to FBI agent Bruce Mouw of the Gambino Family file (if you believe him), the Feds didn’t have any worthwhile intelligence on the Gambino Family for pretty much the entire decade of the 1970s. No active informants in the Family, and no nothing.
Posted By: JCrusher

Re: Why was Mr. Neil passed over? - 06/01/13 04:55 PM

Originally Posted By: thecooler
Hairyknuckles,

No. I’ve never seen anything to indicate that Dellacroce cooperated but it wouldn’t surprise me to learn he “flirted” with the FBI at some point. (My assessment is only based on the files at MF.) I know the FBI does spread disinformation about mobsters, but the detailed newspaper article that came out after Dellacroce’s death stating he cooperated is pretty interesting. My own feeling is that the number of mobsters who dry snitched to the FBI at this time is much higher than is commonly suspected.

Nonetheless, according to FBI agent Bruce Mouw of the Gambino Family file (if you believe him), the Feds didn’t have any worthwhile intelligence on the Gambino Family for pretty much the entire decade of the 1970s. No active informants in the Family, and no nothing.


Thats very true. According to Bruve Mouw when they formed their Gambino squad in 1980 there wasnt an open case on Paul Neil or Joe N Gallo
Posted By: Camarel

Re: Why was Mr. Neil passed over? - 06/01/13 04:57 PM

Originally Posted By: thecooler
According to one FBI informant(likely Lombardozzi), Castellano was made acting boss in 1967 at the same time Dellacroce was made underboss.

So in a way (if this report is correct), Castellano was "over" Dellacroce for sometime prior to Gambino's death(though I realize Dellacroce had lots of independence), and in the eyes of many, Castellano would have been seen to be the natural successor to Gambino. (I'm not saying Castellano was a better choice than Dellacroce).

I'm guessing too that Gambino figured that Castellano as boss would better protect the rackets of Gambino's sons.


Do you mean Carmine Lombardozzi and if so how do you know he was an informant?
Posted By: thecooler

Re: Why was Mr. Neil passed over? - 06/01/13 06:30 PM

Yeah. I found a bunch of different clues from FBI reports on MaryFerrell that convinced me (at least) that Carmine Lombardozzi cooperated for a time in the late 1960s. The best clue was a 1968 report from a Gambino member who said he was at Apalachin and spent time in Baltimore on Family business. Lombardozzi was the best fit.

I wrote it up here.

http://informer-journal.blogspot.ca/2013/04/identifying-underworld-informants-two.html

I’m sorry it’s a pay site but it’s worth checking out for all the articles there.
Posted By: DiLorenzo

Re: Why was Mr. Neil passed over? - 06/01/13 10:06 PM

Castelano did meet with his capo's in his home, just like his predecessor carlo gambino had..That doesn't make gambino an idiot too does it ??

Dellacroce also met with captains in his home , right ??

The feds had never bugged these guy's homes like that before !!

It seemed to work pretty well for many years...They just got careless and the feds did their jobs and planted the bugs !!

cool
Posted By: Lou_Para

Re: Why was Mr. Neil passed over? - 06/02/13 02:27 AM

Carlo Gambino was the gold standard for American Mafia Bosses.Along with being cunning and ruthless,he was notoriously close mouthed,so even if he was bugged ,there wouldn't be much to go on. He didn't even have a phone in his home. Here's an interesting bit of info from his Wikipedia page. "In December 1972, on Ocean Parkway, a van began to park outside Gambino's home. In that car, sat the Federal Bureau of Investigation's (FBI) Mob squad, with cameras, lip-readers, and audio-surveillance equipment, including microphones and wire-taps that were planted in Gambino's home. The FBI was kept on a 24-hour standby, hoping to connect Gambino to organized crime. The van was marked "Organized Crime Control Bureau."

But even though Gambino had every corner in his house recorded, he knew how to conduct business in silence. According to FBI officials, they once recorded a meeting between Gambino, Aniello "Mr. Neil" Dellacroce and Joseph Biondo, where Biondo is just to have said: "Frog legs", and Gambino simply nodded. The recording tapes came out empty."

Supposedly if a man who fell out of favor was mentioned during a meeting,all Gambino would do was sigh,or lower his gaze,and it was understood that a death sentence had been passed. What sets Paulie and Neil apart is that the Feds actually obtained information from their bugs,but when it came to Gambino,it was a dead end street.
Posted By: DiLorenzo

Re: Why was Mr. Neil passed over? - 06/03/13 06:55 AM

grin
Posted By: Quiet_Doms

Re: Why was Mr. Neil passed over? - 08/08/13 05:21 PM

I feel Carlo used nepotism also. Although I think he didn't want any of the Lord High Executioner's loyalists including Mr.Neil to assume control after his death.
Posted By: Sonny_Black

Re: Why was Mr. Neil passed over? - 08/08/13 07:44 PM

Originally Posted By: IvyLeague
Another possibility was simple nepotism.


This. I think as an oldschool Sicilian Gambino wanted the family to stay within the family. He was married to Castellano's sister to begin with.
Posted By: Lou_Para

Re: Why was Mr. Neil passed over? - 08/09/13 03:23 AM

In addition to the family ties between Paul and Carlo,my understanding is that Paul had been basically an acting Boss in the last few years of Gambino's reign.He was mentored in the finer points of Mafia business by the best,and I believe that included how to ease the pain of any perceived snub by Neil.

My personal opinion is that Neil really didn't want the top spot,because,in effect,he already had his own Family.Even if he wasn't in jail,I think he would have supported Paul,and told his underlings that it was the way of Cosa Nostra. This way Neil wouldn't lose face,but on the contrary,would have been held in higher esteem because of his "loyalty" to the Family.

As a sideline to the whole blood ties thing,not only was Carlo Paul's brother-in-law,but Gambino's mother and father were first cousins.
Posted By: Chicago

Re: Why was Mr. Neil passed over? - 08/09/13 10:03 AM

Very common, especially among the Sicilians. Very clannish.
My Wife's parents were first cousins.

I believe the Genovese Family liked Paul better than Neil. That could have been PART of Gambino's decision. In the old days, the Genovese's had blood relations in the Outfit and were allied with them on the Commission and in Las Vegas.

Gigante hated Gotti for two reasons from my understanding hearing about it in Chicago back in '85:
1) Gigante and Castellano got along real well.
2) Gotti raised his hand against a Boss and did it without Gigante's approval because he knew Gigante would have NEVER sanctioned it. Gigante argued that Gotti should be killed.
Posted By: DiMaggio

Re: Why was Mr. Neil passed over? - 08/09/13 10:25 AM

I've read that Paul had had increasing oversight duties in the family since the early 70's due to Carlo's declining health and was for all intents acting boss from around 1975 if not in name.
It was said that carlos relationship with Neil was always a tenuous one and his ascension to underboss came about as a result of reconciliation following on from a faction of the family that did not support Gambino's power move on Anastasia.(several capos were murdered in the wake of A.A's murder including John Robliotto and Armand Rava who dellacroce was close to.)
The disrespect Dellacroce showed to another made member by having an affair with his wife, and supposedly children, would not have sat well with the traditional Gambino either.
I think when a figure like Dellacroce dies, sometimes the myth becomes bigger than the man and people think it would have been a cakewalk for Neil to just Take the family on Carlos death.
Don't forget that Paul would have had many around him at that time staunchly loyal to Gambino and by extension him, zappi, lombardozzi, the armones, the corraros and gaggi, all with hitters in their crews.
Having spent a good portion of the 1970's locked up maybe Neil just figured why rock the boat, I get to stay UB, I'm still making more then I can spend, Pauls proven in the past he can earn, why fuck up a good thing.
Posted By: DiMaggio

Re: Why was Mr. Neil passed over? - 08/09/13 10:33 AM

Quick question on Neil Dellacroces affair.

I've read that the woman he had the affair with was Rosemary Connolly-Grillo, wife of Gambino solider/capo? Ernesto Grillo Jnr.

That union resulted in a child, Shannon(Sandy)Connolly. This is the chick that John Gotti was supposedly bangin and has a daughter with.

Now she is married to a Gambino associate named Ernie Grillo.

What's the relationship here between the two Grillo guys? Or do I just have the names mixed up?
Posted By: JCrusher

Re: Why was Mr. Neil passed over? - 08/09/13 01:36 PM

Originally Posted By: DiMaggio
Quick question on Neil Dellacroces affair.

I've read that the woman he had the affair with was Rosemary Connolly-Grillo, wife of Gambino solider/capo? Ernesto Grillo Jnr.

That union resulted in a child, Shannon(Sandy)Connolly. This is the chick that John Gotti was supposedly bangin and has a daughter with.

Now she is married to a Gambino associate named Ernie Grillo.

What's the relationship here between the two Grillo guys? Or do I just have the names mixed up?

It was a mixup. Rosemary was neil's girlfriend. That relationship produced children one of which was Sandy Connolly. Sandy was married to Ernest grillo and she was the one who had a affair with gotti
Posted By: bronx

Re: Why was Mr. Neil passed over? - 08/09/13 02:47 PM

ernie's father was leo
Posted By: Tony_Pro

Re: Why was Mr. Neil passed over? - 08/09/13 08:09 PM

There is also the story (I don't know how much truth there is too it) that Paul promised Don Carlo to make sure that Tommy (Carlo's son) became boss after Paul. Considering Carlo's nepotism and old school ways, I find that plausible even though as later events would prove that Tommy would roll over pretty easy when faced with big time charges.
Posted By: mulberry

Re: Why was Mr. Neil passed over? - 08/09/13 08:12 PM

Originally Posted By: Tony_Pro
There is also the story (I don't know how much truth there is too it) that Paul promised Don Carlo to make sure that Tommy (Carlo's son) became boss after Paul. Considering Carlo's nepotism and old school ways, I find that plausible even though as later events would prove that Tommy would roll over pretty easy when faced with big time charges.


When did Tommy roll over? He did his time and kept his mouth shut
Posted By: Tony_Pro

Re: Why was Mr. Neil passed over? - 08/09/13 08:35 PM

Originally Posted By: mulberry


When did Tommy roll over? He did his time and kept his mouth shut


He kept his mouth shut and did his time. But he plead out due to a "terrifying fear of prison" and lost the Gambinos the garment district trucking racket in the process.

http://www.nytimes.com/1992/02/27/nyregion/gambinos-to-quit-trucking-business-in-a-plea-bargain.html?scp=28&sq=%22Thomas+Gambino%22&st=nyt

IRRC, he and his brother openly talked about scams in his office and was "shocked" to find out that the FBI was bugging his office even though he should have known better after just about everyone else in the Gambinos had been tripped up on bugs.

Tommy and his brother Joe traded away a multi-million dollar racket to avoid 25 years and to keep thier own personal fortune. Tommy only went to jail after Gravano flipped and the feds had him cold on loansharking and gambling in Connecticut. Yes he didn't flip, but he sure fucked up some good things.
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