was al capone the first vincent gigante?

I have researched al capone for the last few years and from the dots that I've connected I came to the conclusion that he was calling shots from palm island after he was released from alcatraz, I would love to here everyones opinion

When Jake Guzak visited Capone in florida after his release he told people he was pretty much shocked at how bad Capone looked.

Then he said Capone was "Nuttier then a fruitcake". Maybe they acted like Capone was still the boss when they were with him but personally i doubt he was running anything at that point, though i could be completely wrong on it.

After his release Capone was probably lucky if he could tie his own shoe laces.

Just my opinion, i really don't know what the real facts were.

It was a big coverup, guzik was so loyal to capone he would have done anything capone asked of him, theres theres nemerous accounts that people have said when they went to his house they was suprised at how healthy he looked, when he left alcatraz his family tooked him to baltimore to get mercury cleaned out of his system and he continued to get better until his death, theres a whole bunch of lies about capone in the media and in movies

I don't claim to be an expert but I tend to think Capone was a bit overrated. Yea he made the headlines and was the first high profile boss but his time at the top was pretty short. I would say guys like Murray Humphreyes and Paul Ricca were closer to the Gigante model of staying under the radar.

I compared capone to gigante cause of the way they both pretended to be sicker then what they really was in order to get the heat off of them and the only reason why capone had a short run at the top is because they gaved him 11 years on tax charges that people was getting 2 years tops on the same charge back in those days, all of the people u mentioned above learned alot from capone, ricca was just a resturaunt worker before capone tooked him in, nitti was just a barber before he met capone, and accardo had so much respect for capone that he referred to capone as "boss" everytime he talked about capone to someone

Usualy the mob take care of their own who are with damaged mind,with a mercy killing.because you can never know when they'll start talking 'nonsence',so the Capone story is a little bit suspicious as his whole reign as aboss.Some say that he never was the real boss,some say that st.valentines day massacre was done by the police,not Al,etc...

I've never heard anyone even claim that Capone continued to be in charge of the Outfit after he came out of prison. When Capone was sent to Alcatraz he was done. Alcatraz pretty much cut off all outside communications.

Not so, his family was allowed to see him while he was in alcatraz and furthermore, during the time of his parole from alcatraz alot of the top guys in chicago either bought or rented houses that was close to al, the fbi continued to monitor capone after his release from prison and they reported that thier was strange phone calls leaving al's house to chicago, it could have been code, the fbi questioned his wife and they said she seemed like she new sething but was afaid to talk, the whole as l capone coverup is very interesting to me

I meant cut off from all Outfit associations. After he got out Outfit guys visited him, but that doesn't mean he had any power at that point. Guzik claimed "he's as nutty as a fruitcake." As for the Outfit is concerned he was out in 1932.

Bergreen's Capone - page 511. He had a blood test confirm tertiary syphilis when he first entered the Federal prison system.

His brothers visited him in alcatraz and they were involved in organized crime so its possible he sent messages through them, al cliamed he was retired before he went to alcatraz but it was just a ploy to get the fuzz off of his back, most people who got syfilis back then didnt die from it, capone was in good health until about 37 when the prison started injecting lead into his body cause they was afraid that he would get out and run his empire, after capone was released from the hospital in baltimore he held mafia meetings at ralph capone getaway retreat in wisconstin, capone wad semi retired and he let the guys in chicago run the day to day business of it

It seems this is more like a case of blind faith for you, where you dismiss all evidence that's far more likely to have occurred. The government believed someone else ran the Outfit after Capone went to prison, as did his relatives and every Outfit informant who had anything to say about it. There is absolutely zero evidence that Capone ran the Outfit after he left prison, but you are free to believe what you want to believe.

The outfit members that was the closest to capone never flipped, the few that have was so low level or had absolutely no contact with al to know anything, and as far as his family goes do u remember rthe capone brother that ran away? Well his son said in an interview that he remember seeing capone holding meetings with chicago gangsters, and if u read his grandniece (diedra capone) book "my uncle al" she said he use to visit his mother in chicago and meet with chicago gangsters in her house, and she also said after dinner al capone and his brothers use to go to a separate room and look over the gambling books, and as far as the fbi goes they knew capone was up to something they just could'nt prove it, just like chin was boss and it tooked years before they could prove it, the fbi is always 1 step slow, its not blind faith its facts

http://books.google.com/books?id=6V90JsI...ary_r&cad=0

Seriously . Would you quote the Chins daughter's book for information on him?

The chins daughter saw parts of him that the fbi, media, and alot of gangsters never saw

I'll leave it at that then.

I haven't read the book in question, but family members can provide info on a person's private life, not necessarily organized crime. If she debunks the idea that he was "nutty as a fruitcake" after alcatraz, then that's saying something, but personally I doubt he was involved anymore.

Did you click on the link i was responding to Deidre Capone's book his neice, seriously i could write a more accarute book .

I respect ur opinion

Al Capone was sick with syphilis as early as 19 years, which is why his son was born deaf because of neonatal syphilis, Capone if he really wanted to take up the reins of powerwould come back to Chicago, instead of hanging out in florida, but now the tertiary syphilis had devoured his brain, so it is dead so he wanted giovane.Se after Nitti committed suicide in 1942, might well have once again become the boss of Chicago, where he had so many loyal men.

I know Deirdre Capone as well as several other people who have families going way back in the Outfit. Also have numerous FBI files on the Outfit and years of personal research I have done in and on Chicago. Relatives, unless they were made members themselves, for the most part can only provide personal information that is pertinent to familial relationships and genealogical facts. Organized crime related info is usually not shared with biological relatives unless there is a specific reason to do so, but normally wives and children are not privy to those details.

As for Capone meeting with Outfit members after he came out of prison...yes, of course since he was friends with many of them and continued to have their respect. Deirdre Capone said that Capone's syphilis was under better control than the newspapers were aware of, but his memory was not what it had been before and there is absolutely nothing to indicate he had any power or influence in Outfit decisions after he got out of prison nor did have any control while in Alcatraz. As for your comparison to Chin, although the FBI did not realize how early he came to be the central authority in the Genovese Family it was aware that he was a significant player. Capone simply was not the secret boss of the Outfit after he went to Alcatraz.

I feel like nobody is reading none of my posts, u guys keep bringing up points that I've already discussed, nonetheless I will try again, capone was in semi-retirement with final authority relaying alot of his messages through his brother ralph capone among others, and u ask y would he hang out in florida? For the same reason he hungout in florida before he went to alcatraz, u see befor he went to prison he was already telling the press he was retired and he spent alot of his time in florida while letting other guys run the day to day part of it, this was a plan of his already in the works before he went to prison, and don't forget tony accardo tooked a page out of his book by doing the exact same thing, he moved to florida and gaved someone else control of everyday activities

Excellent summation, Faithful1 .

@faithful1 my memory is not what it was and I'm 39...lol but his memory was efficient, and he was not an idiot like alot of people say, proof: he went to the 1941 closed door hearing with government officials and answered every last one of thier questions coherently, theres also a popular photo of him and his lawyer, capone had shades on and his lawyer was explaing the legal precedings to him, y would his lawyer do that if he knew capone brain was in such bad shape? And dierdra capone once said after capone was released from prison he gaved a suitcase full of money to the owner of ups, even if u disagree with me u have to admit that thier is more to capone than the media is saying

I don't think anyone disputes that. That's the case with most public figures, especially the infamous ones. But that doesn't mean that Capone held onto his power after Alcatraz.

And by the way, BigFella, welcome to the boards .

Before Capone went to jail, do you think was he the real power? I mean, did he control Ricca and Accardo, or were they de-facto bosses already back then?

paul ricca started the front boss method in the 1940s

way before the gigante made boss

@dwalin2011 before capone went to jail accardo was just a soldier and paul ricca was' nt in capones "incrowd" wgen al tooked trips to florida he would leave nitti or jack mcgurn in charge @pizzaboy thanks

The chicago gangsters that testified during the mob hearings said ricca was quiet back in the late 20's

Guys, I'd recommend slowing down on saying who was who in the early years of the Outfit. I've been researching this for over 20 years, know a bunch of Outfit relatives and insiders and can tell you that there are conflicting stories about who ran the Outfit in the 1930s and 40s. The consensus is that Al Capone ran it from 1925 to 1931/32, but after that there's confusion. Traditionally most think the top spot went to Frank Nitto, but there are many good sources who say that Ricca was the top boss, and there's a minority position who says it was Louis Campagna. I tend to go with Ricca and Campagna. Accardo was the Outfit boss from around 1947 to 1956, then Giancana, however the guy ultimately in charge was Ricca. I also found out that the Chicago Outfit isn't set up the same as other crime families: each crew is almost like its own Family and the most powerful one is in charge. Ricca, Campagna and Giancana were all part of the Taylor Street Crew and Accardo and Cerone with the old Grand Avenue/Elmwood Park one. After Ricca died the power went to Cicero (where Aiuppa was from), then back to Elmwood Park. Taylor Street was also broken up to 26th Street/Chinatown and Grand Avenue (different from old Grand Avenue) to dilute its power.

But do you think Aiuppa was a power on his own or did he just do what Accardo told him to?

http://archive.org/stream/investigationofo05unit/investigationofo05unit_djvu.txt

Accardo was mostly retired by the time Aiuppa was in power. Accardo was respected and influential, but he was only in charge when there was no one else available. The question to ask is if Accardo was so powerful and had anything to do with the killings of all those Taylor Street members, why did they only happen after Ricca died and not before? The answer is that Aiuppa gave the orders and that's what he wanted done, and that he didn't succeed to that position until Ricca was out of the way.

Ricca was indeed a clever gangster. It's strange why did he go to prison twice while Accardo not even once.

The problem with Ricca is that he stole someone's identity in coming to America which made him subject to deportation while Accardo was born in Chicago. Ricca was also either the top or number two guy at the time of his arrest in the Hollywood extortion case and Accardo was out of the loop.

Nitti was in charge and ricca did things behind his back to undermind him, nitti and ricca never liked each other, ricca was one sneaky s.o.b

accardo respected ricca and ricca helped keep accardo outta the can

so why would accardo betray ricca

ricca died and accardo, aiuppa, and cerone took over....thee end

If you read Gus Russo's book he doesn't pay a whole lot of attention to the structure at the very top. (Ricca, Accardo, Giancana, Humpreys.) Obviously he was most impressed with Humphreys.

I think that is a mature and realistic approach. These guys, particularly back then, were into making money and little else. They weren't acting out a scene from the Godfather. Presumably at all points one person did have ultimate authority but it almost seemed to be a nonissue. There didn't seem to be a lot of "don" shit going on.

I think sometimes people get a little too hung up on the formal authority.

Just like in a company you can have a lame duck CEO, there may have been times during the Outfit's history when the nominal "boss" was more of an advisor.

No matter what the chart says, the smartest person is generally in charge, because everyone else relies on them to pull their ass out of the fire, etc.

Although I do take Rudy Fratto at his word that he "is da bos of dis place... no one else!"

What was Capone's cause of death? I had always thought it was advanced Syphilis.

Yes it was. Stroke > pneunmonia > heart attack.

Interesting thing I learned in my career, if the ME doesn't want to cause trouble they can always check "cardiac arrest" as COD. (Not saying that's what happened with Capone.)

Everyone dies of cardiac arrest, ultimately. I remember going through some old death certificates and there was a specific note on it: "DO NOT CHECK CARDIAC ARREST IF OTHER CAUSE DETERMINABLE." etc. Something like that.

Well, I knew, from other circumstances, this person had died of something other than cardiac arrest, but there it was, checked: "Cardiac arrest."

He was indigent, had died of something sordid, and they probably just did not want to deal with it, embarrass his family etc.

I thought it was because of syphallis that he was crazy at the end.