NEW OUTFIT THREAD -- WHO ARE THE PLAYERS NOW?

Looking for the Chicago guys to weigh-in. Here are a few of the major players I see nowdays and a rough sketch of the leadership structure...this is by no means final and I'd love for those in the know to weigh-in.

If you have a theory based on an FBI report, get fucked and start another thread


Elmwood Park Faction (John DiFronzo is Chairman; Marco D'Amico is direct advisor):

Elmwood Park Crew
Sub Chairman: Peter "Greedy Petey" DiFronzo
Capo: Tony Dote
Lieutenants: Bobby Abbinanti, Joe Belli, Gary Gagliano

Gambling(Subservient to Elmwood but floating between crews)
Boss: Marco D'Amico
Lieutenant: Tony Dote

Grand Avenue Crew (Affiliated with Elmwood Park)
Sub Chairman: Joeseph Andriacchi
Capo: Albert Vena
Lieutenants: Chris Spina, Anthony Spina, Bobby Dominic

Cicero Faction (Chairman are Jimmy Inendino and Solly DeLaurentis):

Cicero Crew
Capo: Pudge Matassa
Lieutenants: Sam "Sammy C" Cataudella,Nick Cataudella,

26th Street Chinatown Crew (subservient to Cicero Chairman)
Capo: Toots Caruso
Lieutenants: Bruno Caruso, Aldo Piscitelli, ??

So this thread is only for Chicago heavies?

Isn't Andriacchi sick as a dog? Thought he retired years ago

Yes he has cancer...I do not believe he's active anymore but I threw him on there because I have no idea who took his spot. I believe the new "Christmas Tree" structure of the Outfit is one boss and 3-4 "sub chairmen" who oversee various street crews.

DiFronzo is boss and his chairmen report to him through brother Peter.

That's the way I see things nowadays...

DiFronzo is a mystery to me. Some say he's a snitch, others one of the most powerful bosses in the country, I've heard he's retired also. Not sure what to make of him

saw difronzo on youtbe once, some i-team investigation i think

was classic...he just kept saying he didnt know anyone they were talking about even though they had them on camera sitting next to each other

always thought it was funny

dont know shit about chicago except what i saw on the untouchables and casino

been there once, looked like nyc but cleaner

That was funny when Jonny got caught eating at the Loon with all his top guys. Not sure why they only identified his brothers and Marco and not the other guys. Would love to know whether guys from Cicero were there or not. I know Tony Dote was (you could see him at the table).

Bobby Abinanti owns that place and it was shut down about a month after that video...I believe its open again and under a new name. DiFronzo frequents the same haunts over and over. A creature of habit.

Chuck Goudie and John Drummond... two reporters who always gave The Outfit guys agita!

I believe Aldo Piscitelli has been dead for some time now.

Do DiFazio, Credidio, or Tominello have any type of leadership roles in the SouthSide crew or are they just money makers?

(Ivy do not answer, i know the official number), but how many guys would u guys estimate are made in chicago? I know dont they kinda have different definitions or whatever of soldiers? How many associates?

I believe he lives in Crystal Lake or at least was there as recently as 3 years or ago. Am I wrong on that or crazy Fred? He's got a wife and daughter up there. "Shorty Jr."

I've heard DiFazio isn't really anything but a guy who likes to impress girls. He does some bidding from time to time, nothing serious. I don't believe he's a leader but I may be wrong. What have you heard? The guy plays fucking pinochle for a living.

Credidio owns Chicago Studio City with his brother Gino right? I believe he's connected somehow to Cicero but not sure whether he's made or not. He probably would have been if Ferriola hadn't died so soon.

Tominello may be high up under Toots...he and the Caruso's own a lot of real estate with Tommy D. I've never seen the guy and don't know much about him.

I think you are thinking of LaMantia instead of Piscitelli. I just wondered if DiFazio held any leadership since he has been around and is in charge of ONIAC. Credidio has been involved in the unions for a long time - he is also the owner of Grotto in Oak Brook. In the summer you have Outfit guys smoking cigars on the back porch of The Grotto.

I'm not a Chicago poster, obviously, but since others have posted already, I'll throw in my 2 cents.

As we know, back in 2007, the feds said the Outfit had 4 remaining crews: Elmwood Park, Grand Avenue, Melrose Park, and South Side/26th Street. What was also interesting is the Outfit was said to be run in "northern and southern sections." More recently, in 2011, the FBI said the Outfit was down to "two or three crews."

I may be wrong but, right now, this is the way it seems to me...

The "northern section" is basically the Elmwood Park crew. The DiFronzos, Andriacchi, Fratto, etc. These guys seem to be fully or at least semi-legit. DiFronzo's companies, trade shows, strip clubs, etc. Actual street rackets seem few and far between. For instance, I'm not aware of any bookmaking cases involving anyone in or affiliated with that crew since the Dotes and Donald Scalise were busted over a decade ago. And while there is still some interaction, the Elmwood Park crew seems to keep everyone else in the Outfit at arm's length while they do their own thing. Also, I wouldn't be surprised if the Grand Avenue crew doesn't exist anymore; at least in the way it once was. Maybe some elements of it have been absorbed by Elmwood Park.

The "southern section" is the Melrose Park and South Side/26th Street crews. In a lot of ways, these guys are what people think of when they hear the term "The Outfit." It was these two crews that the FBI was actively investigating back in the mid-to-late 1990's. Melrose Park seems to be the main power. The last two acting bosses have come from that crew. Toots Caruso, the boss of the South Side/26th Street crew, was supposedly answerable to Mike Sarno. And it was Sarno, like Marcello before him, who seemed to be running what people think of as "the Outfit" on a day-to-day basis. While these guys do have legit interests as well, there's far more examples of them being involved in the standard mob staples of bookmaking, video poker machines, loansharking, theft rings, etc. The Outfit's most recent murders - Jarrett, Chiaramonti, and Zizzo - have also involved these two crews.

Lastly, I don't see much evidence for today's Outfit being as hierarchical as some make it out to be. With it's downsizing and streamlined operations, there really isn't a need for top bosses, crew bosses, street bosses, in addition to the soldiers and associates. And I've seen little to nothing in recent articles or cases, involving the Chicago mob, that would suggest any of it.

The Grotto is a nice place. Marco D'Amico's favorite spot. I knew Credidio lived in Oakbrook but didn't realize he owns the Grotto. There is another "Grotto" in Wicker Park so wonder if owns that as well...bunch of guido club kids working in the kitchen so wouldn't doubt it.

Mets-Cubs the weekend of May 17th at Wrigley. I'm seriously thinking of taking my Dad. He's almost 84 and in great general health, but it's getting harder for him to move around. Anyway, he's a huge baseball fan from back in the '40s (The New York Giants), and he'd love to see Wrigley again while he still can.

Italian restaurant recommendations?

And I'm sorry for hijacking the thread, ChiTown. Give me an answer and I'll shut up about it .

I'll forgive you ya New York fuck. How bout that fight last night and Greinke's collar bone?

My recommendations for Italian in Chicago include:

High End
Piccolo Sogno, Spiaggia and Riccardo's cannot be beat.

Holes in Wall with Excellent Food:

La Scarola (Joe Lombardo's place on Grand Ave), Orso's (Frank Milito's old place in Oldtown), Gennaro's (Taylor Street), Bertucci's Corner (Bridgeport neighborhood...relatives of the Caruso family).

Also...Go Cubs.

Bernie's is a good place for a beer! Coldest beer in the world!

I think the Chicago threads basically have all the sane info some says its dead,,difronzo is legit,,he's a rat does anyone now any facts or is the outfit really almost gone

Very nice analysis Ivy... that seems to make alot of sense.

It's really a shame in my opinion that the law enforcement just forgot about DiFronzo's past crimes just because he's gone legit. I mean, allowing such characters into legal business is an insult to people who have really honestly worked to build their businesses.

Why does everyone think DiFronzo has "gone legit" because he owns legitimate businesses? Vinny Basciano owned legitimate businesses too--think he "went legit?" There isn't a Capo in the country who doesn't have ownership stakes in legitimate businesses--DiFronzo encouraged this to ensure his men had a reliable and law-abiding income stream for obvious reasons.

And how the fuck do you think he got those "interests" in legit businesses? Think he started them with elbow grease and sweat like the rest of us? lol The guy was using car dealerships like Al Piemonte and Parillo for meetings. Jonny Apes used to meet his guys at the car dealerships all the time--they would take a "test drive" or walk the lot and talk.

The guy is a lifelong criminal...he's served multiple years behind bars without opening his mouth to protect this organization. Why people believe he all of the sudden said "Fuck it" and shut it all down is beyond me--but I have to assume you are the same type of people who wire money to Nigeria based on those scam emails. The man is a stone cold killer. His brothers are stone cold killers. One doesn't all of the sudden "go legit."

Everyone saw that Chuck Goudie footage of DiFronzo meeting all the Outfit heavies back in 2009 or 2010. If you think he all of the sudden "stopped" that you are an idiot (or from Boston).

I've also heard theories that DiFronzo is a "double agent." If that were the case, there would be a lot more indictments happening in Chicago.

Well, I don't think he stopped, there is no need to be rude. I just said that even if he did, there is no excuse for forgiving him for what he did in the past.

I think the notion that someone who has devoted so many years of his life to something has just all of the sudden "shut it down" and gone legit is rather "naive." There is that nice enough for ya?

I agree that what you are saying makes sense. I just don't live in the USA and don't have first-hand information about what happens there and everybody says DiFronzo accumulated so much money he theoretically could well retire from crime to live the rest of his life without any problem. But I don't think that's the case, I don't believe it's in his mentality (or in any other crime boss's mentality for that matter). Once a killer, always a killer.

Agreed well-put. DiFronzo was a millionaire in the 1980s working under Lee Magnafichi and could have retired then. So was his brother Peter and Joe Andriacchi. Look at Tony Accardo and all the money he had--he ran that thing until his last breath. It's not called "the life" for nothing.

Thanks, ChiTown. If you're nice to my maybe I'll buy you dinner .

Aldo was Shorty's adopted son. Rocco LaMantia could never hold a candle to him.

Yes you are correct.

Pizzaboy,

If you have time take your Dad on the tour of Wrigley. You learn a lot of history and get to tour the whole park. It is reasonable and definitely worth it.

1070 w adison. In case you didnt watch blued brothers

Do you have any idea how many people wouldve gone down If he was a snitch I mean come on that guy knows a lot. Fellas from all over wouldve been fucked In the ass by now East Coast and West Coast. JBD Is no snitch It's just a stupid fuckin rumor to label him a stoolie.

4 Street crews. Elmwood Park, Grand Ave., Cicero & 26th St. 36 to 40 made men, 110 to 120 soldiers, several hundred associates. down about 1/3 to 40% from 25 years ago. Elmwood Park is the Dominant Crew. The Three other Crews are partnered with them in one way or another. John DiFronzo is the Senior Advisor. Marco D'Amico would be more like the Day to Day Boss. Solly D., Jimmy Inendino, Joey Andriacchi are more in the background. Solly D.(Cicero), Jimmy (26thSt.) Joey A. (Gand Ave.) If anyone thinks that the Outfit is small and weak and that Elmwood Park doesn't want to be involved anymore, then they have accomplished their goal.

does the outfit have any modern day connections/rackets/interaction with the families in nyc, philly, new england?

Yes. Chicago has always had a relationship with the powerful Genovese Family in New York regarding Union activity. In fact one of the made men who was the personal underboss to Joey Lombardo in the Grand Ave. Crew years ago was a guy named 'Mooch' Eboli. He was related to Tommy Eboli from the Genovese Group. I BELIEVE THE RELATIONSHIP STILL EXISTS TODAY. Also, The Genovese Family would occasionally reach out to Chicago about Las Vegas. Chicago had problems and disliked the Bonanno Family yers ago. The Genovese people liked Chicago better than the Bonnano's. Years ago, the 3 best organized and most powerful mafisa groups in the Country were The Genovese Family, Gambino Family & The Chicago Outfit, in my humble opinion based upon dialogue in Chicago.

elmwood more like peckerwood

"We have 28 made members of the Chicago Outfit roaming in the Chicagoland area. We have over 100 associates of the Chicago Outfit." - Robert Grant, FBI
http://abclocal.go.com/wls/story?section=news/local&id=5681103


Mallul estimates the Outfit has about 30 "made" members and a little more than 100 associates.
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2007-09-30/news/0709300075_1_chicago-outfit-mob-boss-calabrese


The Chicago mob once had as many as seven street crews, but is down to two or three, Rice said.
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2011-...onspiracy-trial

Here we go again...............

What does peckerwood mean? Some kind of smart ass ignorant joke? I was warned that there are some smart ass ignorant New York loud mouth people on this blog who immediately start name calling the minute you try to educate them on something their New York mind can't comprehend about the differences between the Structure of Chicago and New York and the different terminologies used. If it makes every body happy. Ivy and anyone else id right . The New York 5 Families are extremely powerful and are way bigger than the little weak Outfit who have only 10 made members. You're right. No problem

Tell me about it.



Here's the next stage we've seen: somebody doesn't buy the misinformation about the Outfit and the Chicago poster gets defensive.

It's debatable whether the structure is significantly different between Chicago and the other LCN families today. And there's little to no evidence of the terminologies being different.

In any event, the latest membership and associate estimates are what they are. No need to pad the numbers.

I objected to the name calling. May I call you Ivy Prick? Is that okay? Would you like me to address you in this way?

Shorehead called you peckerwood, which he shouldn't have. I didn't call you that. My disagreement with you is about the Outfit.

Believe me I've tried. Others did as well. But it didn't help...

Oh, that's right. I'm the problem. Others can come here, posting all types of misinformation, but I'm the problem.

Here it is one more time and then I don't want to debate it with you. 1) I live in Elmwood Park, you don't. 2) My uncle whose name is Joe Lombardi and is now retired, was a soldier in the Elmwood Park crew for 40 years. 3) Your only source of information is the F.B.I. report which is not always 100% accurate. 4) If they were wrong about Joe Ferriola being the Top Boss in the Outfit back in 1986, they could be at least a little off about other things. 5) Chicago is structured differently than New York. soldiers in New York are made guys. Soldiers in Chicago are not made guys. Soldiers in Chicago are not associates. Associates are all the people who are connected to the Outfit but do not belong to the Street Crews. 6) Being a made guy in Chicago would practically be equal to being a captain in New York. 7) If you add up the number of made guys, soldiers who work for them, and all the Outfit connected associates, the number would easily equal the Colombos. 8)Size isn't everything. Years ago the Black Street gangs outnumbered the Mafia, but the Mafia had much more power. 9) The F.B.I. is not going to go out of their way to give a detailed explanation of the differences & terminology between New York & Chicago. Some of them don't even understand the difference. They only care about getting convictions. 10) If you do not understand the differences in Structure because the Feds haven't spelled it out for you in detail, then there is nothing more to talk about on the size or real power of The Outfit. Thank You.

Anything not on wiki or FBI report is fiction- Ivy

You're the one who always starts to debate with these guys and adding fuel to the fire. After witnessing these debates for a long time it becomes repetative and annoying and then it doesn't really matter anymore who's right or wrong...

I only disagree on number six. There are ny captains, plenty of them that have more power and money than any boss in chicago. A change in terms aside, soldier, made guy, whatever. Guys like andy gerardo and tino f had more pull in unions, on the street, and left behind more money than some pussy ass rat like difronzo

I agree Sonny.

I know that for some of you New York guys, Any of the 5 Families has to have a bigger penis than Chicago or you get upset about it. Speaking of rats, you must be confusing that pussy ass DiFronzo with all the hundreds of rat infested informants in your precious my dick is bigger than your dick New York 4 disorganized Families. Genovese Family being the exception.

Well obviously my dick is

Skinny who are you kidding here ?

John go to bed.

Is there really any captains worth more than Difronzo? I find it hard to believe some are worth over 30 million.

Easily

None, but their Dicks are bigger.

Like the kid knows anything

John when you run out of oxys you get crabby. Better hide that boy in the basement im sure your violating the terms of your probation

Probably wise of you. You'd lose.



Geography card alert! Talk about not even bringing anything new to the table.



And I was the Chin's unknown third son. (See what I did there?)



99% of everything I need to know is available from public information in the form of the FBI, the press, etc. And that's where you get most of your information as well. And the FBI will always be more credible than internet posters.



So, you're going to use that as a blanket excuse to disagree with the feds whenever you please? By the same token, I could say that we should almost never believe internet posters considering how often they've been wrong.



You keep repeating this over and over again but what evidence, other than your own word, do you have to support this claim? My guess is absolutely nothing. It's just a way for you to pad the numbers in order to make the Outfit look bigger than it is.



LOL! And then you woke up.



Not if we go the the more credible FBI numbers and not the ones you pulled out of your ass.



Size isn't everything but it's a major factor, including what will stave off general attrition most directly. And nothing has killed off LCN families more than general attrition.



Lame excuse. The FBI hasn't bothered to do so because there isn't any difference between "members" and "soldiers" in the Outfit. That's something you have just made up. Again, if you can provide any evidence (other than your own word) to prove me wrong, I'd love to see it.



There really is no difference in structure today. Most of the things that made the Outfit different from the other families are long outdated and no longer apply. Read the Family Secrets indictment. The Outfit is structured the same way as the others. There is an administration in some form at the top, captains or "street bosses" below, each of whom head a crew of soldiers and associates.

Yes, it has become repetitive and annoying. But you should be blaming the bullshitters who keep coming out of the woodwork. Not me.

Ivy, Shut the fuck up and don't talk to me about Chicago again. understand.

Wait....so you're saying you don't have any evidence to back up your claims about the Outfit's structure or it's size? Didn't think so.

Take the hostility off the boards.

Ivy League, I apologize. I now see it your way. According to the official Chicago Crime Commission's report which was verified by the F.B.I IN 1997, the Outfit had between 700 and 1,200 Associates. Nothing else matters in determining the Structure of the Outfit or the manpower. All that matters is the Official Report that comes out from a verified Government agency. Correct? Isn't that what you've been preaching about on these threads every time somebody has an insight into something that you were never privy to? If the Oufit had downsized for one reason or another 10 years later in 2007 by an agreed upon 50% to 60%, then the number of made guys in 2007 would be about 30 and the number of Associates would be between 300 & 500.

It is your fault. He should be blaming you. You were distinctly told in the OP that your input wasn't desired in this thread. Yet you posted anyway. That's the problem with you, here and on the other forum. Can't you fucking exercise any self-restraint?

It's obvious at this point everyone on every mafia forum is aware of your opinion on the matter. Yet you persist in shoving the same posts down everyone's throat. Why? You think someone who disagreed with you the first 500 times you adressed him is going to magically agree with you the 501st?

Stop ruining every Chicago thread with your antics!

I don't regularly post here but have been reading the forums for quite a while.

The difference between elmwood and some of the more "fanboyish" Chi-Town posters is that he actually articulates and writes his posts in a manner which at least exudes plausibility. Nothing he claims is truly outrageous and his posts are at least consistent - which leads me to believe that he isn't just making things up as he goes along.

Ivy is an excellent poster and knows his stuff and I understand why it is difficult for him to accept elmwood's posts at face value. I don't take elmwood's posts as gospel either but they at least provide interesting insights and theories into the Outfit's operations, past and present - whether you want to entertain those options should be up to you personally.

Tyler Durden, He's had several months to shove his ONE Fed report down everyone's throat. I've only had less than one week. I guess I was trying to make up for lost time. I apologize. It was hard for me to read his stuff about Chicago all based upon one Feds Report. The lesson is that the Feds reports are conflicting and anyone can choose to believe which one suits their needs. I appreciate your comment and do not take it personally.

As I pointed out in another thread, the 70 member figure from the CCC in 1997 was an estimate and not specific figure like the more recent FBI figure. And if you take away the Outfit members who have died since 1997, it matches up with the 28-30 members cited in 2007. As for the associate estimates, those are obviously going to be much more flexible as the definition of an associate differs. However, considering the modern day Outfit's smaller core of made guys, a little over 100 associates is easier to believe than 700-1,200 or even half that.



You'd have a point if this thread hadn't strayed from the original topic. But elmwoodparker and I have been having the same debate in 3 or 4 different threads so it's not like I was the only one who "ruined" this thread.



What "one fed report" are you talking about? The Family Secrets case? I have more than that when it comes to the Outfit's current membership. I have two FBI officials in Chicago saying the same thing on that.

Are you fucking serious? That's your defense?

So let me get this straight: despite the fact that, by your own admission, you were having the same debate in 3 or 4 other threads, you had to have it again in this thread?
Couldn't you restrain yourself?
This thread might have "strayed from the original topic" but it didn't become a clusterfuck until you quoted elmwoodparker's post, knowing full well it was going to spark the same debate you had in 4 other thread.
You had to do it, you couldn't restrain yourself.

And then you post shit like this:

Why are you trying to bait him? Believe it or not, not everybody likes to furiously jerk off to their "debating" prowess every time they log onto a forum.

Believe it or not, some people, like myself, just like to read about things they have little knowledge of. Some people like elmwoodparker just like to share information about things they feel they have knowledge of, without being hassled from thread to thread like they're being audited by the IRS. This thread was adressed from the beginning to "Chicago guys", and you were not-so-subtly told that your input wasn't wanted by the OP. Yet you just had to come in anyway and stir some shit by "correcting" elmwoodparker.

It doesn't matter if he's "right" or "wrong". If you don't agree with him, you feel his "sources" are inadequate or whatever, that's your problem. Others may feel differently.

Show some fucking restraint for once in your life and stop ruining every Chicago thread.

maybe you need a little education as far as how an open forum operates. there is no "only so and so can post in this thread" crap that you seem to think is the case. we have a feature called PM (stands for private message ) where you can have a conversation with only a select few if you want to go that route.

Thank you for your input. I know how a forum operates. I know there was nothing preventing IvyLeague from posting in this thread. Nothing other than decency, that is.

The OP said: "Looking for the Chicago guys to weigh-in."
Coupled with: "If you have a theory based on an FBI report, get fucked and start another thread."

IvyLeague is not a Chicago guy, and is exactly a guy with "a theory based on an FBI report". So clearly the thread wasn't for him.

Sure, there's nothing expressly preventing him from posting. But why be a jerk about it? By his own admission IvyLeague was having the same debate in 4 other threads, so why start it here also? Anyone can see it's very disrespectful.

So, to sum up: unwanted opinion + redundant post + provoking another member= ruined thread = a dick move

Ivy you are only allowed one login name. FiveFelonies sounds tough though I will say that

Nicely said, FF.

You guys have to stop taking pot shots at each other here.

You're gonna start this shit too?? Warning - don't go that route!

Sorry I legitimately thought they were the same person given one only exists to support the other. I'll be nice.

I can imagine if theres an original Outfit guy reading these forums and i bet he's laughing his ass off

There's apparently loads of them not just reading but contributing

Yeah the Outfit right now is spendin more time on the internet than on the streets

Your from Europe right? You sound like you are smoking some bad dope...either that or your leather pants are too tight

I support him too. You know why? Because he actually provides evidence backing up his statements. I have yet to see any kind of evidence backing up your statements in regards to the Chicago outfit. Until then, you shouldn´t get so pissed when other posters are questioning your claims or finding them dubious.

^ ^ ^ Here's one of em...