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Historical leadership Genovese Family 1920s-1990s

Posted By: HairyKnuckles

Historical leadership Genovese Family 1920s-1990s - 04/07/13 01:24 PM

Forget Mafia Wiki, this is how the list should look like (in my opinion)

M=Murdered, F=Fled the US, R=Retired

Official boss and acting bosses

Joe "the Boss" Masseria ?-1931 M
Charlie "Lucky" Luciano 1931-1946 (Imprisoned 1936)
- Chee Gusae (phonetic) 1936 Died
- Vito Genovese 1936-1937 F
- Frank Costello 1937-1947 Became official boss.
- Willy Moretti (May have been acting boss late 1946/early 1947, before Costello was named official boss.)
Frank Costello 1947-1957 Demoted (Briefly imprisoned 1956)
- Jimmy "Blue Eyes" Alo 1956 (during Costello´s imprisonment)
Vito Genovese 1957-1969 Died (Indicted 1958, imprisoned 1959)
- Tony Bender 1958-1960 Demoted
- Ruling panel: Jerry Catena, Mike Miranda and Tommy Ryan 1960-1969
Philip "Benny Squint" Lombardo 1969-1981 R
"Fat" Tony Salerno 1981 (May have briefly served as official boss before being demoted due to a stroke.)
Vinny "the Chin" Gigante 1981-2005 Died (Indicted 1990 and 1993, imprisoned 1998)
- Barney Bellomo 1990 and 1993 Demoted

Note - I have received info from reliable source saying Tommy "Palmer" Greco served as boss before his death in 1975. But I´m not sure exactly where Greco fits in. Perhaps as an acting boss (during a tenure when Lombardo spent time down in Florida) or acting underboss (before Zeccardi)?

Underbosses and acting underbosses

Pepe "the Clutched Hand" Morello ?-1930 M
- Charlie "Lucky" Luciano 1930-1931 Became official boss
Vito Genovese 1931-1957 Became official boss (Was named acting boss 1936, after Gusae, Fled US 1937.)
- Willy Moretti 1937-? (May have served as acting boss briefly before Costello was named official boss in early 1947. In any case, Moretti was demoted back to captain after his stint as an acting underboss.)
- Philip Lombardo (May have served as acting underboss briefly before Catena)
Jerry Catena 1957-1972 Demoted/Retired (From 1960-1969 served on a ruling panel), (Indicted and imprisoned 1970)
- Tommy Ryan 1960-1972 Became official underboss (From 1960-1969 served on a ruling panel)
Tommy Ryan 1972 M
Funzi Tieri 1972-1981 Died (Indicted 1974, became seriously ill 1974), (Indicted 1980)
- Carmine "Eli" Zeccardi 1974-? Murdered 1977
- Vinny "the Chin" Gigante 1980-1981 Became official boss
"Fat" Tony Salerno 1981-1986 (Indicted 1985, Demoted 1986 due to imprisonment)
- Saverio "Sammy Black" Santoro 1985-1987 Died (May have on occasion served as acting underboss before 1985)
- Benny "Eggs" Mangano 1987-1988 Became official underboss
Benny "Eggs" Mangano 1988-? (Indicted 1990, Imprisoned 1991)
- Mickey "Dimino" Generoso 1990-1997 Demoted due to indictment

Consiglieres and acting consiglieres

Saverio "Sam" Pollaccia ?-1931 or 1932 M
Frank Costello 1931 or 1932-1937 Became acting boss
-Alessando "Sandino" Pandolfo 1937-?
Mike Miranda ?-1973 Died (served on ruling panel 1960-1969)
"Fat" Tony Salerno 1973-1981 Became official underboss (Was indicted in 1976)
- "Fat" Dom Alongi 1976-? Demoted. Due to illness? (Died in 1980)
- Vinny "the Chin" Gigante ?-? (may have served as acting consigliere briefly, I´m not sure.)
Louis "Bobby" Manna 1981-1990 (Indicted 1989) Demoted 1990 due to life imprisonment
- Jimmy "the Little Guy" Ida 1989-1990 Became official consigliere
Jimmy "the Little Guy" Ida 1990-1997 (Indicted 1996) Demoted due to life imprisonment.

///Info on all the ruling panels (the guys who served on them) post 1990s would be appreciated. Thanks!

Posted By: IvyLeague

Re: Historical leadership Genovese Family 1920s-1990s - 04/08/13 01:07 AM

Originally Posted By: HairyKnuckles
- Barney Bellomo 1990 and 1993 Demoted


Bellomo was acting boss from the time Chin was indicted in 1990 until Bellomo was indicted himself in 1996.

Originally Posted By: HairyKnuckles
///Info on all the ruling panels (the guys who served on them) post 1990s would be appreciated. Thanks!


Frank Serpico, Larry Dentico, John Barbato, Fritzy Giovanelli, Patsy Parello, Alan Longo, and Danny Leo were all on the ruling panel at one point.

Dom Cirillo, Pasquale DeLuca, Ernie Muscarella, and Artie Nigro were all identified at one time or another as the acting boss. Of course, it's certainly possible at least some of them had also been on the ruling panel at some point.

Frank Serpico and Danny Leo are ones who have been identified as being on both the ruling panel and being acting boss at one time or another.

Matthew Ianniello was identified at one point as an acting boss, as opposed to the acting boss. This may have meant he was on the ruling panel.
Posted By: EastHarlemItal

Re: Historical leadership Genovese Family 1920s-1990s - 04/08/13 01:11 AM

Mickey Domino? Tino Fiamura?

Fritzy really? He's been hot since he killed that cop in the 80's? In and out of jail for the last twenty. Known as a big mouth? On the panel? Could be just curious.
Posted By: IvyLeague

Re: Historical leadership Genovese Family 1920s-1990s - 04/08/13 01:14 AM

Originally Posted By: EastHarlemItal
Mickey Domino? Tino Fiamura?

Fritzy really? He's been hot since he killed that cop in the 80's? In and out of jail for the last twenty. Known as a big mouth? On the panel? Could be just curious.


Yeah, I should add that Tino Fiumara was also on the ruling panel more recently. And apparently Benny Mangano, Barney Bellomo, Ernie Muscarella, and Larry Dentico before that.

And, yes, Fritzy was identified as a ruling panel member back in 1999.
Posted By: EastHarlemItal

Re: Historical leadership Genovese Family 1920s-1990s - 04/08/13 01:17 AM

Mickey? Michele Generoso!

Fritzy WOW! That's great.
Posted By: EastHarlemItal

Re: Historical leadership Genovese Family 1920s-1990s - 04/08/13 01:25 AM

What about Allie Mangalone? Did Ida sit at the table before he went away? Out of curiosity what year did the panel start?
Posted By: EastHarlemItal

Re: Historical leadership Genovese Family 1920s-1990s - 04/08/13 01:38 AM

And no Dominick Cirillo? Is he missing on purpose? Was he carrying to much at that time or was he not the guy! To much if the guy?
Posted By: EastHarlemItal

Re: Historical leadership Genovese Family 1920s-1990s - 04/08/13 01:47 AM

Mario Gigante? Funny how he's Chins older brother and either he didn't have big ambitions or he was smart enough to not want the headaches!
Posted By: IvyLeague

Re: Historical leadership Genovese Family 1920s-1990s - 04/08/13 01:59 AM

Originally Posted By: EastHarlemItal
What about Allie Mangalone? Did Ida sit at the table before he went away? Out of curiosity what year did the panel start?


I don't ever recall seeing Malangone on the ruling panel. The guy who took over his crew (Longo) was though.

The panel, in one form or another, seems to have been in place since the late 1990's.

Quote:
And no Dominick Cirillo? Is he missing on purpose? Was he carrying to much at that time or was he not the guy! To much if the guy?


Yeah, he was acting boss from 1996/1997 to 1998 when he had a heart attack and then had to step down. He was later indicted as acting boss in 2005, though it's not exactly clear at what point he had resumed the position. It would have been some point after January 2002, which is when Muscarella was indicted as acting boss.

Quote:
Mario Gigante? Funny how he's Chins older brother and either he didn't have big ambitions or he was smart enough to not want the headaches!


Now that you brought him up, one of Capeci's articles back in 2004 said Mario had stepped up to help run the family. Maybe that meant he was on the ruling panel or something.
Posted By: IvyLeague

Re: Historical leadership Genovese Family 1920s-1990s - 04/08/13 02:03 AM

Here's a timeline I did a while back.



May 1990 - Barney Bellomo made acting boss after Vincent Gigante is indicted in the Widows case.

June 1996 - Barney Bellomo indicted. Dominick Cirillo becomes acting boss.

May 1998 - Dominick Cirillo steps down after a heart attack. Frank Serpico follows as acting boss but steps down some time between then and April 2001 when he's indicted as the "former" acting boss. Whenever that was, apparently Ernie Muscarella followed as acting boss.

January 2002 - Ernie Muscarella indicted as acting boss.

If what Garcia said was correct, Pasquale DeLuca was probably acting boss at some point during this time, since it would fall within the December 2002 - March 2005 time frame of Garcia's undercover work; though it's not clear for how long since we don't know exactly when Dominick Cirillo resumed his the role after he recovered.

April 2005 - Dominick Cirillo indicted as acting boss.

July 2005 - Matthew Ianniello indicted as "an" acting boss, as opposed to "the" acting boss. This is wording is probably intentional by the feds, which suggests he was on the ruling panel.

It's possible Artie Nigro was acting boss during this time, i.e. after Cirillo was indicted in April 2005 but before the point Danny Leo took over.

December 2006 - Danny Leo identified as acting boss (from his previous position on the ruling panel) and indicted as such in May 2007.

It's also possible Artie Nigro was acting boss at some point between Danny Leo's May 2007 indictment and the June 2009 article.

June 2009 - NY Daily News article identifies Benny Mangano (Oct 2006), Ernie Muscarella (Jan 2008), Barney Bellomo Dec 2008), and Larry Dentico (May 2009) on a "rotating panel" of recently released senior members running the family.

September 2009 - NY Times article identifies Tino Fiumara as being on a "three man panel" running the family.

February 2010 - Artie Nigro indicted as the "former" acting boss.


* Note: At points during this time line, a ruling panel was in place, including when a specific member had the role of the acting boss.
Posted By: EastHarlemItal

Re: Historical leadership Genovese Family 1920s-1990s - 04/08/13 02:03 AM

Ivy, speaking of Cirillo and his trial. Do you recall that during the trial there was a delay because Cirillo "lost his teeth" or some I'm a poor old man leave me alone disease. Ivy, where was QD born? Any information on his youth?
Posted By: IvyLeague

Re: Historical leadership Genovese Family 1920s-1990s - 04/08/13 03:03 AM

Originally Posted By: EastHarlemItal
Ivy, speaking of Cirillo and his trial. Do you recall that during the trial there was a delay because Cirillo "lost his teeth" or some I'm a poor old man leave me alone disease. Ivy, where was QD born? Any information on his youth?


Yeah, back in 2005 his laywers said he needed to go on furlough from jail in order to get some new teeth. But it wouldn't have been during a trial, as he, Dentico, Barbato, and Antico all pled guilty in typical West Side fashion.

I'm not certain where he was born but, if I had to guess, it would probably be Manhattan or the Bronx. I remember reading he was a boxer early on, like Chin, although not a very good one.
Posted By: Skinny

Re: Historical leadership Genovese Family 1920s-1990s - 04/08/13 03:20 AM

From EH.
Posted By: EastHarlemItal

Re: Historical leadership Genovese Family 1920s-1990s - 04/08/13 03:22 AM

Would you let one of your "clients" take a day to get new choppers!


Born and raised in East Harlem!
Posted By: Ivan

Re: Historical leadership Genovese Family 1920s-1990s - 04/08/13 01:03 PM

Originally Posted By: HairyKnuckles
I have received info from reliable source saying Tommy "Palmer" Greco served as boss before his death in 1975.


I've never even heard of this person. Do you have any more info about him?
Posted By: HairyKnuckles

Re: Historical leadership Genovese Family 1920s-1990s - 04/08/13 03:35 PM

Originally Posted By: IvyLeague
Here's a timeline I did a while back.



May 1990 - Barney Bellomo made acting boss after Vincent Gigante is indicted in the Widows case.

June 1996 - Barney Bellomo indicted. Dominick Cirillo becomes acting boss.

May 1998 - Dominick Cirillo steps down after a heart attack. Frank Serpico follows as acting boss but steps down some time between then and April 2001 when he's indicted as the "former" acting boss. Whenever that was, apparently Ernie Muscarella followed as acting boss.

January 2002 - Ernie Muscarella indicted as acting boss.

If what Garcia said was correct, Pasquale DeLuca was probably acting boss at some point during this time, since it would fall within the December 2002 - March 2005 time frame of Garcia's undercover work; though it's not clear for how long since we don't know exactly when Dominick Cirillo resumed his the role after he recovered.

April 2005 - Dominick Cirillo indicted as acting boss.

July 2005 - Matthew Ianniello indicted as "an" acting boss, as opposed to "the" acting boss. This is wording is probably intentional by the feds, which suggests he was on the ruling panel.

It's possible Artie Nigro was acting boss during this time, i.e. after Cirillo was indicted in April 2005 but before the point Danny Leo took over.

December 2006 - Danny Leo identified as acting boss (from his previous position on the ruling panel) and indicted as such in May 2007.

It's also possible Artie Nigro was acting boss at some point between Danny Leo's May 2007 indictment and the June 2009 article.

June 2009 - NY Daily News article identifies Benny Mangano (Oct 2006), Ernie Muscarella (Jan 2008), Barney Bellomo Dec 2008), and Larry Dentico (May 2009) on a "rotating panel" of recently released senior members running the family.

September 2009 - NY Times article identifies Tino Fiumara as being on a "three man panel" running the family.

February 2010 - Artie Nigro indicted as the "former" acting boss.


* Note: At points during this time line, a ruling panel was in place, including when a specific member had the role of the acting boss.


Yeah...I remember this timeline now. Thanks for posting it again.

Originally Posted By: Ivan
Originally Posted By: HairyKnuckles
I have received info from reliable source saying Tommy "Palmer" Greco served as boss before his death in 1975.


I've never even heard of this person. Do you have any more info about him?


Not much really. But he was born in 1895, served as a skipper for many years. Said to have been close to Lucky Luciano. Operated out of East Village (downtown Manhattan). One of the very few Sicilians among the high ranking members of the Family back then. (Most of them were of mainland Italian origins. Greco was born in Messina, Sicily.)
In his younger years was picked up numerous of times for burglary, robbery, assault and felonious assault. I posted a picture of him in the "rare pictures thread". Page 13.
Posted By: Gotti

Re: Historical leadership Genovese Family 1920s-1990s - 04/09/13 08:51 PM

Slightly off subject but is it true Lucky Luciano set up Vito Genovese to go to jail for trafficking heroin?
Posted By: Camarel

Re: Historical leadership Genovese Family 1920s-1990s - 04/09/13 09:12 PM

Originally Posted By: Gotti
Slightly off subject but is it true Lucky Luciano set up Vito Genovese to go to jail for trafficking heroin?


I've not read it but i wouldn't be surprised if that originated from The Last Testament of Lucky Luciano which is notorious for it's bs.
Posted By: HairyKnuckles

Re: Historical leadership Genovese Family 1920s-1990s - 04/10/13 01:37 PM

Originally Posted By: Camarel
Originally Posted By: Gotti
Slightly off subject but is it true Lucky Luciano set up Vito Genovese to go to jail for trafficking heroin?


I've not read it but i wouldn't be surprised if that originated from The Last Testament of Lucky Luciano which is notorious for it's bs.


I tend to agree though I don´t remember reading it in the Last Testament of.... (But that was 25 years ago and I gave away the book to a friend, which I regret now actually.)

Here is an excerpt from an article done by Thom L. Jones on Nelson Cantellops, the man who testified against Vito Genovese. Thom L. Jones always do thoroughly research before writing a piece:

"Rumours have long existed that Cantellops had been approached by a cartel of mobsters anxious to remove Genovese from the frame, for their own personal reasons. These four men, according to these underworld rumours, Charley Luciano in Naples, Italy, and Frank Costello, Myer Lansky and Carlo Gambino in America, had put up a $100,000 bribe to induce Nelson to co-operate with the narcotic bureau and help convict Genovese. Costello would obviously have a vested reason in doing this, bearing in mind that he almost certainly knew Genovese was behind the attempt on his life. A rider to the bribe was that it had to include Gigante in the conspiracy so that he would do time as penance for his bungled attempt on Frank. Jimmy ‘Blue Eyes’ Alo, a senior capo in the Genovese family, is alleged to have arranged for an intermediately to travel to Sing Sing prison, and present Cantellops with the deal. It’s cute and cheesy, like a plot out of a Hank Jansen novel. But as a compelling reason upon which to build a hypotheses, about as ephemeral as a butterfly."

http://gangstersinc.ning.com/profiles/blogs/get-the-right-man-how-the-fbn
Posted By: Dwalin2011

Re: Historical leadership Genovese Family 1920s-1990s - 04/10/13 02:00 PM

Speaking of Cantellops, do you think he was lying about meeting Genovese for the drug deal or did Genovese really expose himself on that occasion?
Posted By: Dwalin2011

Re: Historical leadership Genovese Family 1920s-1990s - 04/10/13 02:08 PM

Also, are you sure Lombardo really wasn't the official boss anymore after 1981? He was around for other 6 years.
Posted By: HairyKnuckles

Re: Historical leadership Genovese Family 1920s-1990s - 04/10/13 02:10 PM

Originally Posted By: Dwalin2011
Speaking of Cantellops, do you think he was lying about meeting Genovese for the drug deal or did Genovese really expose himself on that occasion?


Well, it´s not like Genovese was out there dealing heroin with him. But it´s not impossible that Cantellops met with Genovese. If you read the Thom L. Jones piece, you will see that Cantellops claimed to have met once with Genovese and only briefly. It is possible he was telling the truth.
Posted By: HairyKnuckles

Re: Historical leadership Genovese Family 1920s-1990s - 04/10/13 02:14 PM

Originally Posted By: Dwalin2011
Also, are you sure Lombardo really wasn't the official boss anymore after 1981? He was around for other 6 years.


No I´m not sure. But according to Cafaro (if I´m not mistaken), Lombardo fully retired in 1981.
Posted By: Camarel

Re: Historical leadership Genovese Family 1920s-1990s - 04/10/13 03:04 PM

Originally Posted By: Dwalin2011
Also, are you sure Lombardo really wasn't the official boss anymore after 1981? He was around for other 6 years.


I've always wondered that the only thing i could come up with is he got spooked after seeing Funzi get done with the RICO act and decided to retire.
Posted By: pizzaboy

Re: Historical leadership Genovese Family 1920s-1990s - 04/10/13 04:15 PM

Originally Posted By: HairyKnuckles
Originally Posted By: Dwalin2011
Also, are you sure Lombardo really wasn't the official boss anymore after 1981? He was around for other 6 years.


No I´m not sure. But according to Cafaro (if I´m not mistaken), Lombardo fully retired in 1981.

Benny Squint ran to Florida when he retired and didn't look back. You can take that to the bank. I've heard that in his last years he was reluctant to even "put in a good word" for any of his old cronies when they needed it. He was old, tired and he wanted to stay retired. God knows he earned it.
Posted By: leftygun62

Re: Historical leadership Genovese Family 1920s-1990s - 04/10/13 07:02 PM

Originally Posted By: pizzaboy
Originally Posted By: HairyKnuckles
Originally Posted By: Dwalin2011
Also, are you sure Lombardo really wasn't the official boss anymore after 1981? He was around for other 6 years.


No I´m not sure. But according to Cafaro (if I´m not mistaken), Lombardo fully retired in 1981.

Benny Squint ran to Florida when he retired and didn't look back. You can take that to the bank. I've heard that in his last years he was reluctant to even "put in a good word" for any of his old cronies when they needed it. He was old, tired and he wanted to stay retired. God knows he earned it.

What rackets was he mainly involved with in his earlier years?
Posted By: HairyKnuckles

Re: Historical leadership Genovese Family 1920s-1990s - 04/10/13 07:16 PM

Originally Posted By: leftygun62
Originally Posted By: pizzaboy
Originally Posted By: HairyKnuckles
Originally Posted By: Dwalin2011
Also, are you sure Lombardo really wasn't the official boss anymore after 1981? He was around for other 6 years.


No I´m not sure. But according to Cafaro (if I´m not mistaken), Lombardo fully retired in 1981.

Benny Squint ran to Florida when he retired and didn't look back. You can take that to the bank. I've heard that in his last years he was reluctant to even "put in a good word" for any of his old cronies when they needed it. He was old, tired and he wanted to stay retired. God knows he earned it.

What rackets was he mainly involved with in his earlier years?


Narcotics, Gambling, Shylocking, operations in Manhattan´s Garment District, connected with Roxy Vending Machine Company.
Posted By: DE NIRO

Re: Historical leadership Genovese Family 1920s-1990s - 04/10/13 09:05 PM

Originally Posted By: Gotti
Slightly off subject but is it true Lucky Luciano set up Vito Genovese to go to jail for trafficking heroin?


I always believed this was the case, i read that in several books. Vito was a pain in the ass.
Posted By: IvyLeague

Re: Historical leadership Genovese Family 1920s-1990s - 04/11/13 03:25 AM

Originally Posted By: pizzaboy
Originally Posted By: HairyKnuckles
Originally Posted By: Dwalin2011
Also, are you sure Lombardo really wasn't the official boss anymore after 1981? He was around for other 6 years.


No I´m not sure. But according to Cafaro (if I´m not mistaken), Lombardo fully retired in 1981.

Benny Squint ran to Florida when he retired and didn't look back. You can take that to the bank. I've heard that in his last years he was reluctant to even "put in a good word" for any of his old cronies when they needed it. He was old, tired and he wanted to stay retired. God knows he earned it.


Chin was the official boss as of 1981. But in one recorded conversation later on, Fat Tony talked about how, if Chin and Lombardo didn't like the way he was doing the job, they could have it back. That seems to suggest Lombardo still had some say or whatever, despite being out of the picture for the most part.
Posted By: Gotti

Re: Historical leadership Genovese Family 1920s-1990s - 04/11/13 05:00 PM

Why is Bellomo called Barney and do people call him that to his face? seems like a funny nickname.
Posted By: Camarel

Re: Historical leadership Genovese Family 1920s-1990s - 04/11/13 05:07 PM

Originally Posted By: Gotti
Why is Bellomo called Barney and do people call him that to his face? seems like a funny nickname.


I've always wondered that too i can't see how people could jump from Liborio to Barney as a nickname.
Posted By: pizzaboy

Re: Historical leadership Genovese Family 1920s-1990s - 04/11/13 05:11 PM

Originally Posted By: Camarel
Originally Posted By: Gotti
Why is Bellomo called Barney and do people call him that to his face? seems like a funny nickname.


I've always wondered that too i can't see how people could jump from Liborio to Barney as a nickname.

Well, how else can you Americanize it? Libby? Please, that's just gay tongue grin.

Everyone calls him Barney. It's how he refers to himself. It's not a "mob nickname." It's the name he's identified with since he was a kid. End of story.
Posted By: Camarel

Re: Historical leadership Genovese Family 1920s-1990s - 04/11/13 05:14 PM

Originally Posted By: pizzaboy
Originally Posted By: Camarel
Originally Posted By: Gotti
Why is Bellomo called Barney and do people call him that to his face? seems like a funny nickname.


I've always wondered that too i can't see how people could jump from Liborio to Barney as a nickname.

Well, how else can you Americanize it? Libby? Please, that's just gay tongue grin.

Everyone calls him Barney. It's how he refers to himself. It's not a "mob nickname." It's the name he's identified with since he was a kid. End of story.


Fair enough but i would've took the nickname Oreo tongue
Posted By: EastHarlemItal

Re: Historical leadership Genovese Family 1920s-1990s - 04/11/13 05:14 PM

Lots of Liborio's also go by Louie! Or Lou!

PB I'm back in FLA an hour and what a difference!
Posted By: pizzaboy

Re: Historical leadership Genovese Family 1920s-1990s - 04/11/13 05:21 PM

Originally Posted By: Camarel
Fair enough but i would've took the nickname Oreo tongue

Product of a mixed marriage?
Posted By: Dwalin2011

Re: Historical leadership Genovese Family 1920s-1990s - 04/11/13 05:30 PM

In Russia Liborio would surely become Boris.
Posted By: pizzaboy

Re: Historical leadership Genovese Family 1920s-1990s - 04/11/13 05:36 PM

Originally Posted By: Dwalin2011
In Russia Liborio would surely become Boris.

And he'd probably be banging a double agent named Natasha, am I right? grin
Posted By: Dwalin2011

Re: Historical leadership Genovese Family 1920s-1990s - 04/11/13 08:55 PM

By the way, did Bellomo really beat 2 lie detector tests when asked about the murders? But if he was telling the truth, does that mean they didn't even care about asking his permission to kill those guys?

Also, Pizzaboy, I remember in another thread you said about the Coppola disappearance that if he is really dead, then it was probably Leonard Simon who had Coppola killed, not Barney, but wouldn't it have been too dangerous for him to kill a capo without asking the bosses' permission?
Posted By: Skinny

Re: Historical leadership Genovese Family 1920s-1990s - 04/11/13 09:37 PM

Hey eh or pb- does GF has his wings?
Posted By: pizzaboy

Re: Historical leadership Genovese Family 1920s-1990s - 04/11/13 10:48 PM

Originally Posted By: Dwalin2011
By the way, did Bellomo really beat 2 lie detector tests when asked about the murders? But if he was telling the truth, does that mean they didn't even care about asking his permission to kill those guys?

Also, Pizzaboy, I remember in another thread you said about the Coppola disappearance that if he is really dead, then it was probably Leonard Simon who had Coppola killed, not Barney, but wouldn't it have been too dangerous for him to kill a capo without asking the bosses' permission?

Okay, once, for all, and for all time. Then I'm really not going into this again.

Why would they ask Barney's permission?

Farby was the acting boss when Ralphie got hit. End of story. Chin was still the official, but Farby had the final say on the street. That's protocol. They didn't have to ask Barney's permission for anything. That's the street.

One of Farby and Ralphie's mutual partners got in Farby's ear and got permission to take Ralphie out. Farby may have had to get the nod from Chin (not sure either way), but no one else. And that was that. End of story.

Barney just had to eat it. Him and Ralph were the kind of friends that went "from the womb to the tomb." Closer than brothers. Barney wouldn't have killed him even if he was robbing him (and I never believed that anyway).

Barney NEVER would have given his permission if he was asked. But he wasn't asked. And even if Barney wanted to make a beef when he got home, Farby was already dead from cancer by that time. Not that Barney would have beefed. He knows the rules and respects them. He's old school.

Okay, now I'm done.
Posted By: EastHarlemItal

Re: Historical leadership Genovese Family 1920s-1990s - 04/11/13 10:55 PM

100% correct! Barney would have never ever given the job to clip Ralph. And he would have never made a stink either! He's a soldier! He understands things happen! Also understands you only fight battles your in a position to win. Fighting one from jail is a tough place to fight from! Ask Persico! That selfish maniac has cost alot if people money and lives!
Posted By: Dwalin2011

Re: Historical leadership Genovese Family 1920s-1990s - 04/11/13 11:17 PM

Originally Posted By: pizzaboy

Okay, once, for all, and for all time. Then I'm really not going into this again.

Why would they ask Barney's permission?

Farby was the acting boss when Ralphie got hit. End of story. Chin was still the official, but Farby had the final say on the street. That's protocol. They didn't have to ask Barney's permission for anything. That's the street.

One of Farby and Ralphie's mutual partners got in Farby's ear and got permission to take Ralphie out. Farby may have had to get the nod from Chin (not sure either way), but no one else. And that was that. End of story.

Barney just had to eat it. Him and Ralph were the kind of friends that went "from the womb to the tomb." Closer than brothers. Barney wouldn't have killed him even if he was robbing him (and I never believed that anyway).

Barney NEVER would have given his permission if he was asked. But he wasn't asked. And even if Barney wanted to make a beef when he got home, Farby was already dead from cancer by that time. Not that Barney would have beefed. He knows the rules and respects them. He's old school.

Okay, now I'm done.

All right, I got it about the Coppola murder. But who do you think organized the DiLorenzo and DeSimone murders Barney was initially charged with?
Don't get me wrong, I am not arguing or insisting it was him, you live there and know better than me, I am just interested.

But anyway, if they were such good friends with Coppola, the fact that Bellomo wouldn't have reacted in any way to his murder, as you say, that's really creepy in my opinion. So much for the so called "honor" in the mafia.
Posted By: Skinny

Re: Historical leadership Genovese Family 1920s-1990s - 04/11/13 11:26 PM

They kill your brother, you take it. Thats the life. Thats it, nothing more.
Posted By: EastHarlemItal

Re: Historical leadership Genovese Family 1920s-1990s - 04/11/13 11:29 PM

Originally Posted By: Skinny
They kill your brother, you take it. Thats the life. Thats it, nothing more.



Shit sandwiches
Posted By: pizzaboy

Re: Historical leadership Genovese Family 1920s-1990s - 04/11/13 11:46 PM

Originally Posted By: EastHarlemItal
Originally Posted By: Skinny
They kill your brother, you take it. Thats the life. Thats it, nothing more.

Shit sandwiches

Yup. That's what it is, all right.
Posted By: IvyLeague

Re: Historical leadership Genovese Family 1920s-1990s - 04/12/13 02:57 AM

Excerpt from Barney's 2006 indictment -


In or about 1998, in the Southern District of New York, the District of New Jersey, and elsewhere, LIBORIO S. BELLOMO, a/k/a "Barney Bellomo," the defendant, and others known and unknown, unlawfully, willfully, and knowingly conspired to murder Ralph Coppola, in violation of New York State Penal Law, Sections 105.15 and 125.25.

In or about 1998, in the Southern District of New York, the District of New Jersey, and elsewhere, LIBORIO S. BELLOMO, a/k/a "Barney Bellomo," the defendant, and others known and unknown, unlawfully, intentionally, and knowingly did commit an act involving murder and aided and abetted murder, to wit, with intent to cause the death of another person, BELLOMO and others known and unknown did cause the death of Ralph Coppola, in violation of New York State Penal Law, Sections 125.25 and 20.00.
http://www.ipsn.org/indictments/bellomo/indictment_criminal_genovese_family-2006-2-23.htm


End of story, as far as I'm concerned.
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