State of the Chicago Outfit

The power that was the Chicago Outfit has faded pretty rapidly since the mid 1990s. It seems that no one new has been made since the 1980s. On the one hand, largely the same players are still in power for the past 20-30 years. But as members are sent to prison, no one has been replaced.

Into the 1980s, Chicago had LA and Las Vegas. They also had casinos throughout the world (Spain, Latin America, etc.) well into the 1990s, at least according to Michael Corbitt a la Hy Larner. Now it's down to Chicago and Aruba.

As the current members age, there seems to be no one replacing them in Chicago like in Philly, Jersey, Boston, Detroit. Philly and Jersey rebuilt the organization from the ground up in the 2000s. It's almost like the guys at the top in Chicago don't want to replace anyone. Or is there a group standing by waiting to rebuild?

The last known ceremony was in the late 1980's but, considering Mike Sarno is made, there may have been ceremonies since then. At least I don't recall seeing mention of him being made prior to that. That said, there's definitely a downward trend; much more so then the other remaining families. Where we saw estimates of 50-70, say, 10 or 15 years ago, the latest estimates don't top 30 members.

Far from reaching throughout the country, let alone to other countries, the Outfit is now a local mob just like the families in Boston, New Jersey, and Philadelphia. The vast majority of Outfit operations don't extend beyond Chicago and it's suburbs within Cook County. And if some articles over the past decade are any guide, the Outfit has intentionally downsized itself and streamlined it's operations in order to create a smaller profile. That may explain the sharp decrease in numbers.

Are there any younger members of the Outfit coming up other than Ferriola and Frank Caruso III?

There may be but I don't think any of them have been identified. Nick Ferriola was said to be an associate in the Family Secrets case. Maybe he's been made since then. I don't know about Frank Caruso III.

Outside of Chicago they have Rockford, Las Vegas (not much anymore), casino in Aruba, I've heard California and western Canada but not sure.

Philly and New England are a lot more local than Chicago .

Most of the known guys are over 50, especially in the areas outside of Chicago. The Vegas crew's average age has to be over 65. I wonder if there any younger guys who just aren't yet known.

why people think that chicago has absolutely no recruits is absurd

you'd be a fool to think they haven't made anybody in 30 years

How old is "Vegas Rick" Rizzolo?, also who else would be left of the Vegas Crew except Joey Cusomano?

The current Outfit is split into two factions--Cicero and Elmwood Park. Salvatore Cautadella and Jimmy I run Cicero for Michael Sarno...with Frank Caruso's 26th Street Crew reporting into them along with a small crew in Chicago Heights and NW Indiana. Their rackets tend to focus more on the street crimes--juice, extortion, burglary, etc.

Elmwood Park is run by John and Pete DiFronzo with Alby Vena's Grand Avenue crew reporting into them along with Solly DeLaurentis' lake county crew. Joe Calato who is frequently referred to as "Joe Kong Cullotta" is out of the rackets. this faction is far more into white collar things like zoning scams, bid rigging, etc. Most of these guys have legitimate businesses and restaurants.

There certainly have been ceremonies since the 1980s. There are rumors that Sarno made a new crop before he headed to prison. I don't think anyone is doing a ceremony anymore--that started in Chicago with Aiuppa and ended with him.

Where does Marco D'Amico fit into that group?

Slightly left of the middle.

great to see you back PB

Thanks, kid .

Marco seems to be in the middle of the two. I'm pretty sure he was in the Cicero crew and knew Sarno well but he's also involved with DiFronzo as well.

I agree and frankly, I'm not 100% positive. Marco essentially runs all bookmakers in Chicago with Tony Dote being his lieutenant. He's a longtime crony of DiFronzo and I would suspect Elmwood Park is where he shows allegiance. However, he's also regularly found with Cicero guys like Pudge Matassa who drives for him on a regular basis along with this giant blonde polish dipshit who looks like a bufoon.

I always thought Solly D. was aligned with Cicero?

He came up under Rocky Infelise early on but I believe his focus was always Lake County. I know he was tight with the DiFronzos and Marco D'Amico. He may very well be kicking up to Cicero.

The guy has like 8 kids and 3 ex-wives or something so even though he's probably still on parole, a guy has to earn haha.

they can't be that fractured if cicero guys are driving northsiders around

not shocked to hear that chicago heights/northwest indiana have a crew

they're alot of low income white suburbs they can capitolize in the area

Yeah and this Sal Cautadella fits in somewhere too, him and Sarno look like two obese blobs shaking down the video poker parlors of thd Midwest lol

Didn't know there's a lake country crew still. Is it really in lake county or is it just in name? Since lake country is by the border of Wisconsin.

Common misconception that these guys control or get a peice of every book in their area. Ill be the first to say, i dont know shit about chicago. So who knows, maybe its completely ass backwards from here. But i can think of about a dozen locals in north jersey (mostly morris, passaic, middlesex co), white suburban guys, some italian even. Most actually haha. That dont pay shit. I can think of guys that do tho too. But im saying, not all get taxed. And this is NJ.... An area with like what 7 families? Chicago has one? For the whole city? I mean there was a guy in Rockaway who ran 2 joker poker halls. You know the ones that call themselves lottery cafes or whatever? The guy was a fuckin skinhead biker. Nobody got a peice of that. Idk i mean it goes on a lot, guys just say fuck it, give up their sheets than pay a few k a month.... Just not on this huge daily scale of shakedowns.

Internet rumor taken at face value by some aside, there's no actual crew in Chicago Heights/NW Indiana. Going back to the Family Secrets case in 2005, there were 4 crews identified by the FBI - Elmwood Park, Grand Avenue, Melrose Park, and the South Side/26th Street crew. More recently, in 2011, the feds said the Outfit was down to "two or three crews." Even back in the later 1990's, the only crews the FBI was bothering to investigate were the Melrose Park crew and the South Side/26th Street crew.

I don't know if "fractured" is the word but there does apparently seem to be a divide of sorts. In a very real way, the day-to-day leadership of the Outfit seems to be out of the Melrose Park crew - recently Mike Sarno and Jimmy Marcello before him. The DiFronzos, Andriacchi, and the Elmwood Park crew seem to be keeping most others at arm's length while they just do their own thing - mostly legit or quasi-legit businesses. DiFronzo's companies, trade shows, strip clubs, some bid-rigging, etc.

The question is, how big are these independent bookies you speak of? Another question is, why is it almost unheard of (even in this day and age) to see a sports betting bust in the Tri-state area that doesn't involve the mob in some way? Some have responded that law enforcement only goes after the mob-connected bookies because it makes for better headlines but I've never believed that. It's not like they're going to allow a guy, who's taking significant action, to operate freely just because he's not mobbed up.

As for Chicago, while there's far less bookmaking busts there, all the ones going back over a decade have been connected to the Outfit in some way.

Perhaps Skinny can shed more light on the subject.

Smallest, like 10-12 regular customers. Biggest 500. 30 something agents. He was based in bergen county. Not connected in the least. Id say 90% of these guys dont get busted. The perna book? The one they arrested like 40 guys? A book that takes in the numbers theyre claiming will have a thousand agents. Easy. They only got the connected guys and the bloods. Some guys are just 70 yr old men that say my phones open from 12-6. Do everything on credit. Never change their lines..,,.. Some guys the opposite with agents. The agents may get shaken down or be with a crew but thats just them. By knowing an agent doesnt mean u can get to the office. Not all agents know the controllers. Levels of buffers in between. Works like a charm. Even if a agent knows his boss close enough to set him up, would he do that to a guy who gave him a job? The office can quit taking his sheets action and hes out of business. The media/cops drum up the connected shit for headlines. They go after them the same, imo, but most indy locals dont have lots of heat on them like a crew run book would. If ur just a book with say a dozen agents, say 80-90 customers, ur taking around 10-15m yr in action, keeping say 2-3% on average.... Big money yes? Say theres a gambino crew, set up exact same, same figures, number of agents, exactly. The latter arent just agents, theyre loan sharks, shooters, dealers, hustlers, plus they are Gambinos. Theres more that attracts heat on them, not most Independent guys. Not trying to say i know everything, just saying.

Also a connected office doesnt mean all agents are connected.

Solly D lives in Island Lake which is far north up there by Wauconda. It was his ambition to take over counties like McHenry and Lake and move things up north back when he was under Infelise. I believe he's begun doing that and has a few guys helping him. Like I said, Solly still has young kids and a young wife and needs money...I would assume he's still expanding the rackets up there.

I agree and in no way do I think the Outfit taxes all bookies in Illinois. Those they do tax however have advantages--various crews layoff action to each other on a regular basis and namely essentially being the sports book for the Chicagoland casinos like Rivers and Grand Victoria. So I think its if you are connected to the Outfit--you get more action. If not, you don't get beat, you just don't get in on as much new business and I'm sure that some guys are completely fine with that.

Tony Dote and Marco are in charge of sports books for the Outfit.

If the Outfit isn't physically harming anyone, who really cares anyway? Its all white collar crimes. Someone gets caught for stealing a little money, extortion, or loan sharking and goes to a federal prison for a few years. Big deal.

The business continues.

there's alot of land in the south suburbs and enough action to have a crew

Some of them are huge, Ivy .


Because, believe it or not, the Feds tend to focus on Italian American bookmaking offices at least ten times as much as they focus on the non-italians. It makes for better press releases. And you know I'm no apologist. I hardly ever play the "Forever Bothering Italians" card. But what's right is right.

Gypsy bookmakers (and by Gypsy I just mean independent, it's in no way ethnic) have existed in New York for YEARS. It's nothing new. That street tax bullshit is so overhyped it's ridiculous.

Most of the mob connected guys that you're talking about have even layed off to the gypsies over the years. Because when you're a busy office, at the end of the day it's better to have a reliable out at five to one on Sunday afternoon than to shake a guy down for $200 a week. It's just better business. Forget all that "every bookmaker pays" nonsense.

The NW Indiana rackets that were run by guys like Snookie Morgano were taken over by others...including the Guzzo brothers. I know there are guys still operating in the heights...Michael Giorango's brother Joe being one of them. I'm not sure if they are a designated "crew" or an extension of Toots Caruso's territory or not. Anthony Calabrese was also a guy from the Heights.

Do yourself a favor Cook and ignore those who feel the need to weigh-in on everything, even when most of their posts are glanced over at this point.

Also I take back what I said about Solly D. I do believe he is still working with Cicero though I'm not sure his relationship to Sarno or Cautadella. I do know he is close with Pudge Matassa and is frequently with another guy known as "Jonny Moe" who is also made in Cicero. Solly continues to run things for Cicero in Lake County (which is where he and Infelice operated for years back in the 80s and 90s and where his kid Jerry oversaw his interests while Solly was in prison). What I'm not sure about is how much leadership Solly has within the Cicero crew and whether Pudge and Sammy C are above him or below him. I do know he's very respected and focuses on his establishments in Lake County (the bowling alley, etc.) and some carpet cleaning business.

A close friend let me know that when Solly D and Marco D'Amico were released from prison, the organizational structure of the Outfit changed significantly--Marco was essentially made a "#2" reporting direct to Jonny and essentially still controls bookmaking between the Elmwood Park and Cicero groups. Jonny "Apes" Monteleone once was in a similar role when Jonny returned from prison in the early 1990s--reporting directly to DiFronzo.

Jimmy I got out in 2008 or so and joined the top ranks in Cicero and took over the remaining rackets the Spano's had going (that family is supposedly out of all rackets now).

Remember that Sarno (who came up under Bobby Salerno) was very close with Marco--in fact he named his son after him. Matassa and Cautadella also are close with Marco...but Marco reports directly to Jonny and Petey. He just bridges the divide between the groups when it comes to gambling--he lays off action between Elmwood and Cicero frequently.

Sarno and Sammy were essentially enforcers farmed out between crews but reported Bobby Salerno. At one point they collected for Jimmy I and even Michael Magnafichi but not sure how they became so high up in Cicero. Then again, I hear all this shit second hand and with all the gossip and whatnot, who knows whats really going on. Chicago uses more "fronts" and "go betweens" than anyone.

Also Nick Guzzino is "the man" in the Heights. I believe Anthony Calabrese reported to him who in turn reported to Toots or Jimmy I.

Doesn't Spano get out in a year or two? Think he'll have a role when he gets out?

one thousand percent correct...same in new haven...Ivy trust me on this one...

just saw this, exactly...unless were talking about a maniac like Scarfo...why ruin a a well run book to shake down some guy for $200 a week.

ChiTown,

Jonny Moe is an enforcer or no? Isn't he in the chop shop business?

I found it with the Google/iPod wiseguy app .

So True!! It works the same way in Philly and I am sure Chi town and whereever else. Some of The independents are some of the biggest books. You can search my posts. Ive talked about this before.

He will never "Trust You" on this one. He will argue until it hurts. If he can't read it, it didn't happen.

I've been told the Spano's are out of the rackets. The family has plenty of money.

The only Italians in Ivy's home state of Utah are those in the "program." Ivy you need to start finding these guys instead of sitting on your computer all day...you can start your own little Italy!

i'm from southburbs so they can't tell me about something i've witnessed

but they would have to have a crew to work the area because it's too much territory for only a few guys to run rackets in the area

whose their boss or who they report to is anybodies guess

The extreme differences in what we've seen in cases going back more than a decade now shows truly independent operations are very much the exception to the rule. Especially big ones. And again, I'm talking about in those areas where the mob still has a significant presence. Sure, there may be a lot of individual agents taking bets who never rub shoulders with the mob. But the higher up the ladder you go, this seems to be much less the case.



Maybe the South Side/26th Street crew has some guys there but there isn't another crew based there, according to the FBI.



I could certainly believe law enforcement focuses more on the Italian-American bookies because of the Mafia connection. But that still wouldn't explain the extreme lack of non-Mafia/Italian bookmaking busts. People can talk about various exceptions they know of, and I take no issue with them on an individual basis, because I'm talking about the collective big picture. And the big picture, at least shown by indictments, is the illegal sports betting business in the Tri-State area, in much of the rest of the Northeast, and in Chicago is still very much connected to the LCN. But that comes in various forms, i.e. some operations being run directly by the LCN, others laying off to the LCN, others paying a street tax, etc.



I don't weigh in on everything. And, like I said above, there very well may be some guys operating there. Just not an actual standing crew. Anthony Calabrese, for example, answered to Jimmy Inendino.



I'd ask you and the others for examples of these big independents but I'm guessing I won't get any. Funny how it always seems to work that way, huh?

Again, one can certainly bring up certain exceptions to the rule. For instance, the Mastronardos. But even they were laundering money with a Genovese guy in Florida.



When I have people (such as yourself) lying about what they really know, I pretty much have to be sceptical, don't I?



Given how information is so widely available in this day and age, one could never meet a single Italian and still know everything they need to about the mob. You can keep pretending that knowledge is based on where you live, how much pasta you eat, or whatever but not many people are buying that old line of BS anymore.

Im sorry ivy, but on this one i absolutly refuse to go into specifics or name names.

Books get busted bc of a dead beat running to the cops or from a branch off another criminal investigation. Each office runs things a different way but for the most part, 90% of deadbeats dont get hurt. The ppl im thinking of consider a few percentage of missed collections just part of the business and is taken out of the agents commission. U get busted bc u hurt a guy, or scare a guy, or you juice and squeeze the fuck out of him. Or guys getting investigated who are into some thing else (which is the main reason most lcn books are busted).

I know ur looking at this whole business from an outside point of view. And u know i hate saying that whole "i know more than u bc yada yada yada", but ask anybody whos had any experience in it, they will say the same. So if you still want to stick to ur guns and follow ur original way of thinking, thats fine. Im not asking u or anyone else to believe me but im right.

I'm looking at the whole business from an overall point of view. As I said before, I'm not taking issue with you or others who know of independent bookmaking operations. I'm saying these operations (if they're truly independent in the first place) are very much the exception to the rule in the Tri-State area, much of the rest of the northeast, and in Chicago. One doesn't need to live in, or even have visited, these places to see this fact.

Whatever im done

you are dead wrong

Just ignore the prick and move on. Not sure why any of you guys engage him anymore...I just mock him and ignore his dork replies.

I believe Anthony Calabrese reported to Nick Guzzino. The media thought Calabrese reported to Jimmy I because Calabrese carried out a personal favor for Jimmy on a tattoo artist downstate. However, there was a go-between there and that was Guzzino who essentially took over what was left of that crew after Dominick Palermo went away. The Heights crew is probably now considered a "sub crew" of Cicero/26th Street.

i actually like Ivy, just think he is wrong on this one

Hell, Fratto, you don't even ignore me yourself. You say you do but we both know you read my posts. At least the ones involving Chicago. Don't get pissed at me because I post what the feds say, which so often conflict with your claims. It's just like old days over on the RD, isn't it?



Well, the demonstrable evidence suggests I'm right. People on internet forums can say, "Take my word for it" but long experience has shown that will usually lead one into error. I'd love to see any information that even hints that truly independent bookmaking operations are not the exception, rather than the rule, in much of the northeast or Chicago but I know I won't get any. Just a bunch of anecdotes.

i think in his case, its more of a "do as i say, not as i do" approach.

Same here! We had one HUGE disagreement and we've moved on! I actually appreciate his viewpoints!

Respect!

Apparently.

Ivy, how can i prove to you more independent bookmakers don't get arrested as LCN does? all i can tell you from living in new haven ct my whole life that is what i have experienced...in my experience i know more independent bookies than i do connected ones. its not like i live in kansas, im an hour from co-op city.

respect

More LCN books get busted I suppose because there already in the trap so to speak? Non connected guys can hide till they get ratted out or get stupid!

Respect!

and by all means you can disagree that's the best part about forums but i have no reason to lie or exaggerate the truth.

Well, I guess that's where we differ, Ivy. And it's really not that big a difference, it's just that our interpretations are different.

You seem to be saying that every time an independent lays off to a connected guy, or vice versa, that that automatically puts the independent guy in the connected column because they do a little business together. The Feds do this too, to bolster their numbers (just like they do with EVERYTHING else).

I just don't see it that way. In my opinion, if an independent isn't paying protection, and if he's not "on the record" with a wiseguy, then he's not connected. Because if he's not "with" a guy, then the guy certainly isn't going to lift a finger to help him if he gets jammed up. And that's the only perk of being a mob connected bookmaker: Having a guy to run to.

So there you go. I see it one way, you see it another. No biggie.

There's a ton of guys not connected and not paying anyone! And Ivy since your more apt to keep an eye out for LCN headlines is t it safe to say you've missed the independent busts? Just a thought! I'd say there are more independent books than connected or paying for a connection! It's just not a valuable investment anymore.

lol this thread is already fucked. We should change the title to "therapy and disagreements 101." I'll start another one and Ivy if you come on there with your bullshit, this guy will sit on your thick head.

agree

Actually, I keep track of all the bookmaking busts. I see them in other areas of the country as well. For a more recent example, look at the thread I started about the two bookmaking busts in Oklahoma City and Albany in the last couple days.

The Albany one is a good example. One of the defendants is Joseph "Oink" Carucci. He's been involved in gambling busts up there in the past with George Bedigian. Although one Florida guy charged is/was a DeCavalcante associate, from what I can tell, in cases both past and present, these guys aren't mobbed up. And it's not necessarily surprising because Albany is far enough away from the mob's scope of influence.

I don't think it's just a coincidence that the vast majority of bookmaking busts in those exact areas that have a big mob presence are mob-connected, while those further away often aren't. Of course, as pizzaboy said above, how one defines "connected" may vary.



It's funny that you make up Outfit crews out of thin air but you call me the bullshitter. Anyway, I'd be happy to go back to talking about the current state of the Chicago Outfit. Of course, even there, we'll probably butt heads because you and the feds differ so often.

Lol, Chitown.

Ok I stand corrected!

Maybe the South Side/26th Street crew has some guys there but there isn't another crew based there, according to the FBI.



the area is too vast for just "some guys" to be able to run rackets

there's a crew that works the southburbs and northwest indiana

they might report to somebody but there's still a crew

Well, then it probably would be elements of the South Side/26th Street crew.

the southburbs combined with northwest indy is a decent chunk of land

it would take a crew to run it

Cook you're being oversimplistic, doesn't matter how big the area is. Someone could be running a 100 million dollar betting ring on a small street corner in Gary, it doesn't take an entire crew to oversee that.

Ivey, if you want a list of some names then PM me and I will give you a list. Im not putting out names on front street. Everyone has told you that its happening all over the east coast. You mention the Mastronados because they are the only ones you know cause they are the only ones who made the paper. They also have a political tie and have been doing it for years so the FBI and state police also have a hard on for them as they do the Mob. Your wrong and you look stupid arguing it still. But thats you...All day everyday arguing with everyone about everything on all threads on all forums. Your not always right. Its annoying.

You could certainly send me names via PM. But that won't necessarily prove anything since there may be no way to verify them.

You also have to consider that, even if you and others know of several independent bookmaking operations - and I do question your ability to really know their business - that doesn't mean what I'm saying regarding the overall picture isn't correct.

This isn't about me being right. I'm just saying what the evidence tells me.

you do realize that soldiers and some associates have crews in Chicago

that Anthony calabrese guy being an example

a few guys wouldn't be able to keep watch over that much territory

they might not be their own bosses but it's still a crew of guys

Why not? The Outfit has had to "watch over" generally the same amount of territory today with half the crews and a fraction of the membership it once had. And one way it's done it, apparently, is by streamlining it's operations. It's not really into anything and everything the way it used to be. It doesn't have a monolithic stranglehold on all criminal enterprises throughout the city. So it doesn't need the manpower it once did.

the syndicate has never had a "monolithic stranglehold" in crime in Chicago

the feds said al tournabene (consigliere) was in charge of the south suburbs

you love quoting the feds and the feds said the south suburbs have operations

I'm not saying the Outfit doesn't have operations in the south suburbs. I'm saying there isn't a fifth crew down there. Whoever is down there, they are likely part of one of the remaining crews. Probably the South Side/26th Street crew.

That sounds correct to me, cook county you should check out the new book about the Chicago heights crew it's and entertaining and informative read.

I was gonna order it but I ain't got around to it yet

Ivy, I believe you are correct. The Chicago Heights Crew I do not believe exists as a 5th Crew anymore. The guys in the Heights belong to either 26th St. or Cicero depending upon what activity they do. The 4 Street crews presently are Elmwood Park(Dominant Crew), Grand Ave., Cicero & 26th St. The Outfit was NEVER divided into two groups. That is what The Elmwood Park crew would like everyone to think because Johnny does not want to die in jail. The 3 other Crews are all PARTNERED one way or another with Elmwood Park. Solly D. belongs to Cicero. It doesn't matter if he is in Lake County! He was in Lake County 25 years ago. He still belongs to Cicero. Marco D'Amico belongs to Elmwood Park and is the Day to Day Front Boss over the Entire Outfit.

New men were made after 2000. There is no question. The new faces are actually old faces of soldiers who moved up and were made into mainly the Cicero & 26th St. Crews. Elmwood Park approved any new men made in the last 10 years. There doesn't have to be a lot of people present for a new man to be made. In fact it's better if there are not very many people there at all. When Johnny made Marco years ago, I heard it was Marco, Johnny,& Carlisi. Why advertise it and take a risk? Johnny was always very secretive and very smart. The Bosses of 26th St. and Cicero proposed some new men to move up in the last 10 years, Elmwood Park approved and that was the end of it.

Marco is in the Elmwood Park Crew and is the day to day front Boss. All the other crews are partnered with Elmwood Park in one way or another. John DiFronzo sponsored Marco in 1986 when Cerone went to Jail.

it was a good book and sadly the heights is still the same way

just the murderers are black and latino now-a-days

And virtually no arrests for anything in 10 years. Hmmm...

I seriously doubt that you know about every bookmaking bust in the country or even the NY/NJ area. There are probably dozens or hundreds busted each year that are never reported in the news. I've known several bookies who got busted and it never made the news. There are hundreds of independent bookies who never get busted because nobody is looking for them. When I was in college, all the Asians went to Asian bookies, the Indians went to Indian bookies etc. These other ethnic groups have no use for some goombahs who will end up stiffing them or shaking them down.

I don't just use news outlets to keep track of them. I also use the federal and local prosecutor's websites. If there's a bust, it will be reported somewhere.

Mike Magnafichi is now a sports-blogger and podcaster at American News Post.

The Outfit doesn't exist anymore like it did years ago. The New Oufit is strictly White Collar. The old Blue Collar Outfit started to get phased out about 15 years ago. After 2002, it became more steadily phased out. When Marco D'Amico got out of prison in 2005, He was named acting Boss. All the men and relatives of men who are with him and Johnny Dfronzo etc. are all white collar. It is a different kind of Outfit that changed with the times. In 2007, The Feds said there were about 28 made guys. However, in the last 6 years, some of them are gone and there are many more NEW YOUNGER MEN who belong to the The Outfit and are college graduates who are related by blood or marriage to the Top Bosses. They are more like a powerful Sicilian Clan with strong political and Union Connections. The Blue Collar Bookmaking has almost completely been phased out and the Loan Sharking is basically non existent. There is no future in it.

Elmwoodparker, You're not all wrong but you're not all correct either. What young men who are college graduates belong to the Outfit and are related by blood or marriage? DiFronzo, Andriacchi, D'Amico, etc. have no younger male relatives who belong to the Outfit. They may have a relative or two that runs a legitimate business, but legitimate businesses are not ( at least during my father's day) part of the Outfit. That was always something separate, at least years ago. I don't see this white collar Outfit that you've created really being in existence. John DiFronzo doesn't care about the Outfit in any way. He is a rich, selfish asshole. As far as the South Side is concerned, Sarno had to actually use a motorcycle gang member to do some muscle work for him. That should show you that even the South side "Blue Collar" Group as you call it are on their last leg.

LOL. That Anthony Calabrese mongoloid.

With how difficult it is to get a loan these days I'm surprised sharking is gone in Chicago , that seems strange to me in a business that has good margins . Although I guess if the outfit uses no violence these days and no one is scared of them I guess no ow was paying them back .

The same logic probably applies to bookmaking

In NJ this is the mobs bread and butter will and likely will always be

Especially if a wise guy can Borrow funds from one of his legitimate companies at very low rates and lend it out , he could generate a very high margin business .

Sharking is still pretty big in the NJ bar , strip bar and italian restaurant scene , alot of bartenders and like still rely on it ( paycheck to paycheck workers ) , I know several of my friends do this $500 to a $1k here and there and with 1 good tip might they can pay it off.

If the mob was smart , they should of cornered the pay day loan market as they basically started it .

Btw Chicago you are the best and most realistic outfit poster on here , I very much welcome your addition to this forum and I'm very sorry for your loss

Come to think of it, there really hasn't been much in the way of loansharking charges in Outfit cases over the past decade.

These are the Outfit-connected bookmaking busts over the past decade, that I'm aware of...


April 2000 - 7 people, including Anthony and Carl Dote

February 2002 - 8 people, including William "Billy D" DiDomenico

July 2002 - Joel Glickman (paid street tax to Frank Calabrese)

August 2003 - Joseph "Pooch" Pascucci and Mary Daddano (daughter of Willie "Potatoes" Daddano)

June 2004 - 5 people, including Joseph "Pooch" Pascucchi and Demitri "Jimmy" Stavropolous

April 2005 - bookmaking among the charges in the Family Secrets indictment

February 2006 - 9 people, including Frank "Gumba" Saladino (Rockford)


Not sure about these...

July 2002 - 4 people, including Peter "Cuz" Demondo, Richard Demondo, and Frank "Knuckles" Mattelli

February 2012 - Anthony Buttitta and Dominick Buttitta

DB, Thank You. I'm still recovering 28 years later. The Outfit's tremendous strength years ago really started to dwindle in the late 1980's and rapidly continued in the 1990's. The RICO Act that put Auippa, Cerone, Lombardo & LaPietra in prison was devastating to the Outfit. This happened around 1986. They basically lost Las Vegas because of these actions. This all happened in the late 1980's. By the time the Family Secrets Trial came about, the Outfit was already mostly crippled, operating at about 1/4 speed. I'm not saying the Oufit is dead, but I'm comparing it to when I was growing up. There is simply no comparison. The 5 New York Families and the Chicago Outfit were it during the 1950's, 1960's,1970's and about 1/2 of the 1980's. The Rico Act, Attrition and retreatment of the top current talent has all been equally devastating over the last 25 years to the Oufit.

what do u think about the recruitment pool for Chicago?

Hi Cook County, Where do you live in the Chicago area? The recruitment pool in Chicago is still there but the desire is diminished. I'm sure there are enough Italian American men who want to belong to the Oufit, but once they really see what it is, they usually are not too interested anymore. The relatives of former Outfit active members are slowly inheriting the legitimate part of their predecessor's assets. So, if they are handed something legit, making decent money, use their former relative's connections to further their legitimate interests, why would they want to join the Oufit? See what I'm saying?

Quick question for Chicago: Was Paulie Schiro ever made?

No. He was a West Coast Associate centered more around Arizona. He used to report to Spilotro. He was a Member/Associate of the Grand Ave Crew. He belonged to Lombardo.

He grew up in Chicago alongside Spilotro and was very close to Mario DeStefano's son Sam. He was involved in the Hanhardt crew.

Yes Chitown, I forgot about that burglary crew. Very good. That burglary crew was controlled by Lumpy also.

i'm in the south suburbs

in the city of al capone there will always be somebody willing to join the mafia

there are plenty of guys out there who are earning who may not be made but are certaintly connected to the outfit doesnt make alot of guys anymore but they got alot of guys with them who arent just italian

Hey LittleNicky, Did you ever see the story I told about Elmwood's Uncle?
Anyway, what you said is true enough, but the overall general desire and admiration for belonging to the Oufit as a made man or some Associate of some sort has diminished. It's still there, just diminished. All the guys I know personally would rather have nothing to do with the Oufit. But that's just me and my friends. Plus, I have a very personal reason to never have anything to do with the Outfit, but that's neither here nor there.

I haven't, any chance you could send me a link or at least the title of the thread. Thanks, i enjoy your posts you're clearly a level headed Chicago poster on this site that's unprecedented

Thanks Camarel, I think you read it already. You commented on it. It's under 'Most Power Boss' thread.

Chicago, are people still kicking money up in the Outfit? I thought there was a thread about this where it thought or presumed that there was no longer any money moving up.

Do people still kick up to DiFronzo? Do people on the southside kick it up to DiFronzo? Is there anyone on the southside getting money kicked up to them?

Or has that stopped, in hopes of not being labeled a criminal organization?

As others have said, thanks for your input. Much appreciated.

Yea, great story. Dude was a loud-mouth that literally knew nothing about the modern outfit.

You forgot to link to AmericanNewsPost Joe

Now tell us why you feel Marco is not made.

And are you paying Michael yet for his stories?

Chitown, Don't quite understand your posting? Marco D'Amico is made and has been for a long time. He simply retreated with DiFronzo etc.
Joe Fosco from American News Post is a con man. His story about his alleged extortion was all bullshit to cover up the fact that he never received any of the money he helped Cerone Jr. and Fratto con out of his friend Vasselli. Fosco changed his story. First he said his family was conned out of $500,000 Dollars, then he said Vasselli actually put up $400,000 Dollars of it and his family lost only $100,000.
I explained this to Ivy in a personal message last week.

PP, The South Side is operating like normal. The North Side is not involved with them and as far as I can tell, receives nothing. DiFronzo Brothers, Andriacchi & D'Amico are all extremely wealthy and do not want to spend the rest of their lives in prison. It's like the Star Quaterback (DiFronzo) quit the team to go play golf instead of risking injury and then a few of the other good players on the team quit with him. Now, the second string team is on the field.

There was a link here to some of the video poker receipts used in the trial against Marcello.

Someone here familiar with those kind of operations said they were laughably low.

And that was a long time ago, probably from like 04 or 05.

I remember seeing those transcripts. The totals did seem low because they were not the full amounts really received. There are always 2 sets of books for the Poker machines. One is for taxes and the other is reality.

The receipts I saw were chicken scratch... they were the gambling receipts. That's why they were presented as evidence in court.

Who would declare any amount of taxes on illegal gambling earnings from video poker?! LOL!

I find it hard to believe there's no gambling or loansharking up north

the northside is where all the money is at and has been for years

not too mention that they can legally obtain money from poker machines

Jonnynonos, Maybe I'm thinking of something else I saw which was some kind of tax return. Mob guys do make tax returns. Mob guys do report SOME kind of income from poker machines. Poker machines are not illegal. The only time they become illegal is when the FEDS CAN PROVE PAYOUTS FOR WINNINGS were made.

Only the most desperate among mankind would be so unwise as to take a loan out from a loanshark these days. Even the userous interest rates from the payday loan companies is the bargain of the century compared to the vig!

As far as gambling, I imagine most of it has also moved online.

Harry Aleman in his last interview said there was no bookmaking left in the city and if there was any, it was with a few old Jews on the north side.

Of course that is coming from Harry Aleman, so must be taken with a grain of salt, but I still thought it was an interesting comment.

Cook County, I didn't say there was no gambling or poker machines on the North Side. I said there were none in Elmwood Park. As far as that activity being done on the North Side, it exists. But again, DiFronzo etc. have retreated from the Outfit which means any activity on the North is being done independently or is controlled by the South Side. If you choose to believe those guys never retreated then that's fine with me. No problem.

Right. These were the receipts from the gambling.

That was an interesting post. It was all the raw files from Secrets. Very interesting, particularly the recorded conversations of Marcello as he realized he was in trouble.

Funnily enough several of those convictions came somewhat close to being overturned on appeal!

I doubt there is any video poker on the north side. In all the bars listed in the indictments, etc., it was all in the south and the grimy suburbs.

Most of these bars were pretty much the bottom of the barrel. Old, decrepit places from another era, and many of them have gone out of business since FS.

Jonnynonos, Thank you. This is what I've been saying but a couple of guys find it hard to believe. The bottom line is that Noone can say for sure how many poker machines there are on the North Side. Compared to the South Side, it would be far less. The point is that IF there are some on the North Side, DiFronzo etc. doesn't want to even know about them.
Side note: There are some in Melrose Park which is technically on the North Side. However, any street rackets in Melrose park are controlled by Cicero.

I completely agree with everything you've been saying on these forums, particularly about DiFronzo.

It's just I've repeated myself saying the same thing for so long I guess I don't have much to say about it!

Google image the Redwood Lounge in Bridgeport. (Now closed.)

That is the kind of places these things were at.

It literally looks like a blue collar lounge from, at the latest, the early 60s.

Joe Fosco (I know everyone hates him, but still) once said that most of the people gambling with the mob bookies these days are just old men who don't want to bother with a computer.

The nature of the establishments at the video poker places I've seen suggests the same thing... and keeping in line with the theory that the whole thing is aged to the point of almost complete decrepititude.

To echo what Chicago has been saying, it seems the North Side guys (i.e. the Elmwood Park crew) are more interested in legit or quasi-legit stuff now. Of course we all know about DiFronzo's companies, D&P Construction and JKS Ventures. Involvement in the trade show business is also evident. Law enforcement has said the North Side also likes to invest in strip clubs and restaurants. And then, for what it's worth, there was Fosco's allegations about the DiFronzos and Central Grocers. It's hard to ignore the lack of examples of street rackets involving Elmwood Park guys in recent years.

somebody up north should get everything in line before difronzo dies

because cicero or the southside is gonna try to take advantage

Cook County, Google I-Team Lunch with No Nose. It has Chuck Goudie trying to interview DiFronzo back in 2009. It's hysterical. Chuck Goudie, The newsman, calls every made guy in Chicago a Boss. According to him, Everyone in Cook County is a Boss. Secondly, he sensationalizes the whole thing by saying it's a meeting of the upper crust of the Outfit. John DiFronzo would NEVER have a meeting like that in a public place. NEVER. Secondly, look who's at the lunch meeting at the Loon Café: John DiFronzo, Pete DiFronzo, Joe DiFronzo & Marco D'Amico. Johnny, his 2 Brothers & Marco. All deactivated men with Elmwood Park who don't give a shit about the Outfit.
If you'll notice, there's NO ONE there from Cicero or 26th St. Hardly a Mob meeting. LOL. Chuck Goudie will do anything to get people to watch him on Television. I love it when Goudie asks DiFronzo if Marco D'Amico was there eating pizza with him, and DiFronzo tells Goudie he doesn't know Marco. It's great entertainment.

Here's the video Chicago is talking about if anyone hasn't seen it - http://abclocal.go.com/wls/story?section=news/iteam&id=6705293

Thanks Camarel for posting the video the proper way on here. You're probably more computer savvy than me. LOL.

I'm surprised someone hasn't already. Seems like a huge void is just waiting to be filled. If Difronzo hasn't been really active in like 10 years, what's the hold up? Perhaps it's a lack of someone to fill the void? I can't see another family just sitting around and dying because the boss decided to hang it up. Perhaps the southern group has taken over up there and they just stay away from anyone associated with DiFronzo.

Jonnynonos and Chicago,

You guys are great. I have been saying similar things about the Outfit on mob forums for about three years now, but not based on any firsthand knowledge or anything; my statements have always been stuff that I just inferred from the cases that are actually made in the 21st century. It is gratifying to see that others actually in Chicago can back up my hunches, and that I'm not completely full of crap.

To his credit, IvyLeague has also been realistic about the Outfit.

I remember everyone making such a big deal out of Family Secrets when it happened, but to me it was like some weird tough-on-crime circus held by the government to show to the public that they were still serious about taking down criminals. But to me the best way to describe what it was like was a "dinosaur hunt", if that makes sense. I know the defendants in that case weren't the kind of people you should feel sorry for, but I almost did.

Those convictions would be a great thing to have on your resume if you're a cop or a prosecutor though! "I took down the heirs of Al Capone!" So badass!

Chuck Goudie is unintentional comedy gold. The way DiFronzo just looks at him in that stupid ambush interview is hysterical.

Ivan, You're absolutely correct. The Family Secrets Trial was largely a 'Dog and Pony' Show put on by the Government.
Joey Lombardo already had retreated from the Outfit many years prior. Frank Calabrese was ALREADY in prison and off the streets. The other guys were insignificant and were convicted of crimes they did years ago.
The only guy they got who MEANT ANYTHING was JIMMY MARCELLO. Jimmy is the guy who could have invested some of his money, commanded leadership and made some new men. He is REALLY the only guy they got that hurts the CURRENT Outfit. When Jimmy went away in 1993 with Carlisi, the Government ordered him to make $12 Million Dollar restitution in the form of Money and property! Jimmy made a lot of money for himself and knows the streets.

As far as DiFronzo is concerned. Back in 1986 when the Spilotro Brothers were killed, He was the Boss of Elmwood Park and the Underboss of the ENTIRE Outfit. Auippa and Cerone ordered the murders before they went to prison and Carlisi & DiFronzo carried them out. Everybody knows it but nobody can prove it. You cannot convict a man SOLEY on the word of an informant. There has to be at least one other strong piece of evidence to go with it. However, I am surprised the Government didn't even try. WHAT DID THEY REALLY HAVE TO LOSE? Unless they're putting something together right now?

Lastly, either DiFronzo is the smartest, luckiest, most politically connected Boss in the History of the very once proud Outfit, or he is a dry snitch and has made a deal to be left alone in return for retreating with the top men in his crew so they can all be left alone. It's one or the other. Take your choice.

You know, I almost posted this opinion myself, but I wasn't 100% sure if it was true. Did he actually have intent of rebuilding the Outfit? I half suspect that even he knew that it was time to hang it the fuck up, but I don't know the whole story with him.

Jimmy Marcello is a real gangster of the old type. He was going to try and rebuild the very once proud Outfit into something better than the current state. He and DiFronzo were not close. As I said on another post, it was known on the streets that when Jimmy got out temporarily in 2001, it was said that Elmwood Park (DiFronzo), didn't want to eat with Cicero (Marcello).

that's because they were wondering how the fuck he got outta jail

Funny cookcounty, maybe we're looking at this whole chicago thing wrong, maybe difronzo purposely went white collar so the street guys can have a place to hide thier money

Cook County, Jimmy Marcello did about 9 years in jail from 1993 to about 2001 or 2002. He got out of jail because HE SERVED ALL HIS TIME.

I think Jimmy was also the one they thought had the biggest chance of getting out on appeal, but no dice.

If you remember after the trial everyone else thought that Calabrese Sr.'s awful testimony sunk everyone else, that is why they all wanted separate trials.

Regarding Secrets, yes they were all old, but it really wasn't the feds going on a witch hunt. Calabrese Jr. approached THEM about flipping. Then they ran DNA on the Fecerrota glove and had Nick by the neck, and he flipped.

So they went after everyone they could. That's what they do.

Frank Jr liked Nick though so why did he give him up? People always said he just wanted to put his dad away.

You are right but I can't really remember how it all went down. I think he said he really regretted getting his uncle involved but can no longer the blow by blow of how it happened.

Calabrese Jr. talks about it extensively in his book but, like I said, I can't remember.

You're both right. It was Frank Jr. who wrote the letter to the Feds in 1998 or 1999 that started the whole ball rolling. Then, Nick flipped later.
Why did Frank Jr. write the letter?
Answer: He had stolen about $600,000 Dollars from his father's stash of cash. He didn't want to face his father so it was easier for him to keep him in jail. Frank Jr. was a drug user so he had that lying manipulating addict personality.
That was the bottom line for the reason Frank Jr. wrote the letter.
I have no idea of his drug usage presently. But, once an addict etc....

That's what it was. It was actually Calabrese Sr. who started talking about the gloves. He spilled to Jr. in the prison yard on the wire. Feds went and got them from evidence.

I think Jr. in his book goes through all the angst he went through, etc., but don't really remember the details.

I thought he got out of jail in 2003?

Cook County, Yeh, it could have been 2003, I don't have all those dates memorized. LOL.
Ivy probably knows.
Anyway, the point is that Marcello did several years in jail. When he got out, it was understood that he was the Boss. DiFronzo did not want any part of it.

A few weeks ago Johnnynonos was talking about Joe Lombardo and I made the erroneous statement that "there was a mountain of evidence against him." There was not. I followed the FS trial and I don't know what I was thinking . Musta hit my head on something.

Jimmy Marcello was in about the same position as Lombardo. If memory serves me well, I believe all the govt had was Michael Spilotro's daughter recognizing his voice out of a recording of 5 or 6 people. Of course they had Nick Calabrese. At the conclusion of the trial, Judge Zagel opioned that Marcello had more ability than his co-defendants. Zagel also would not allow a voice identification expert to testify, saying he had nothing to offer the jury that would be relevant.

I listened to the oral arguments from the Seventh Court Of Appeals (online) and to be very frank, I was surprised at the weak presentation by the govt. It was very, very weak. Apparently they had put all their eggs in one basket with N. Calabrese and thought his testimony would result in convictions, and it did.

The three judge panel of Posner, Woods, and (cant't remember the 3rd one) upheld the district court's decision by a 2-1 vote, with Diane Wood dissenting. This was an interesting case because of the double jeopardy issue. Marcello and Calabrese had both done time for some of the crimes that were included in the indictment. But there were additional charges. IMO there appeared to be two issues: 1. Where does one conspiracy stop and another begin? 2. Did Marcello and Calabrese operate as independent street crews or did they commit crimes for The Outfit ? Posner and the other judge felt that crimes were committed by two different entities ( Street Crews and The Outfit) but by the same people. Judge Wood disagreed.

In my opinion these guys got what they deserved, BUT when you take a really hard look at the entire case, the govt may have been very lucky. Both Marcello and Calabrese had "pulled time" for some of the charges the govt presented, and the overlapping of conspiracy cases (RICO included), was certainly questionable.

It was Micheal Spilotro's daughter who identified Marcello's voice. Also, besides Nick Calabrese's testimony, they proved that Marcello had been paying Nick Calabrese's Family $4,000 a month as hush money.
Joey Lombardo's fingerprints were on some kind of registration that they found in the victim's car.

Yep, Spilotro's daughter. Got the two Michaels mixed up. I believe Michael Marcello was released from prison last Sept. Hope he goes straight.

There's a good summary on this forum/board about the FS trial.

They also had Lombardo bragging about the Seifert hit on a golf course, and perhaps a couple more witnesses.

Marcello was convicted of much more than the Spilotro murder, but, regarding that conviction, I think the above is pretty much correct in terms of the evidence: The voice ID and the Calabrese testimony.

Currently the FBI has 2 squads and 36 FBI agents chasing the 5 ny families
In Chicago they have one squad with 12 agents chasing the entire Chicago outfit

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/29/nyregi...mc=rss&_r=0

Looks like business will pick up for the N.Y. Families.

Listed below is a link to Chicago FBI that I posted a while back. Who knows for sure about all these figures?

http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2012/08/12/grant-organized-crime-alive-and-well-in-chicago/

Thanks for the info.

i'm appalled that you ain't include me in your rant

go pull a George Zimmerman if that's how u feel deep down in ur heart

it's less people to chase the mafia in ny than it is Chicago

36 people for five mobs is a little thin

Really thin. I'm wondering if there may be a plan in place with other law enforcement agencies to "make up the difference" in manpower. It just doesn't make sense for the FBI to reduce personnel in a city with five active OC families.

Puzzling !

In nyc there is the organized crime control buraeu(occb) of the nypd that works with the fbi to investigate the mafia. I think a lot of people here recognize the name joe coffey from documentaries he was in the occb.

Yes, I have seen Mr. Coffee on TV many times. Was not aware of the OCCB unit. I imagine just about every large city has some special unit assigned to investigate OC. I also realize tight budgets result in tough decisions.

Thanks for the info.

Np man, ya in other cities i imagine there are a lot taskforces where federal agencies work with state and local leos to investigate oc whether its the italians or just local gangs, that way they can pool together their depleted resources.

You'll notice in that article that the Chicago Outfit is one of the things that squad investigates.

“Fifteen years ago, we had two organized crime squads (in Chicago) focused strictly on the Outfit,” he said. “Now we have one that, a part of their apparatus is focused on the Outfit, but the other is focused almost exclusively on Eastern European organized crime activity.”

Ya as the chicago outfits criminal activities continue to dwindle they dont needs as many fbi agents to investigate them.

it's more feds investigating Chicago than investigating NY

36 divided by 5 mobs(NY)......12 divided by 1 mob(chi)

Chicago ain't going anywhere anytime soon.....too crooked of a state

No there's not those 12 also investigate eastern european, cartels, and other froms of oc. Chicagos Italian mob is on it's very last legs.

The feds in new york are soley dedicated to the ny families the article says the feds in chicago are assigned to the outfit and eastern european organized crime. So its not entirely accurate to compare numbers that way. Its been said many times that not all coruption is tied to the outfit but im really not trying to start another ny chicago debate.

I don't understand why the outfit being a strong family means so much to you you seem like the type of guy who would let them take everything you had and thought it was cool to hang around some wiseguys, that shit cracks the board up.

There's 2 squads in Chicago one for the mob and one for eastern European crime. Not one for both

“Fifteen years ago, we had two organized crime squads (in Chicago) focused strictly on the Outfit,” he said. “Now we have one that, a part of their apparatus is focused on the Outfit, but the other is focused almost exclusively on Eastern European organized crime activity.” Thats a quote from the fbi

you honestly believe that no young Italian males wannabe Mafioso's?

My bad read it wrong. I have never even heard of eastern European crime in Chicago? By eastern European do they mean Russians?

Ya thats what i thought of when i read it. But what we would just call russain mafia actually comes from alot of other countries from around russia so the fbi catgorizes it as eastern european organized crime.

It's what the feds refer to as "Eurasian Organized Crime." The Russians are the first group that come to mind for many. They're the most infamous and Russia straddles both Europe and Asia. But it's also groups from various Eastern European countries - Ukrainians, Armenians, etc.

Ok but I've never heard about those groups in Chicago. I know they're in Florida and New York.

i was thinking maybe polish?

There was a local news story about this a while back. Done in typical Goudie style ("New Kings of Crime") but still interesting.

http://abclocal.go.com/wls/story?section=news/iteam&id=8918424

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1991-06-06/news/9102200287_1_crime-ring-illegal-immigrants-goods heres a story about the polish from the 90s

Here's a question, just for laughs: If DiFronzio is indeed a "snitch," as some people suggest, what/whom do you think he's snitching on?

I don't think it would be the South Side crew. There simply are not enough arrests to warrant such a conclusion IMO.

I think--if he is, which is a big, big *if*--it would be on other organized crime: the Eastern Europeans, and probably particularly on the Middle Eastern operations that are potentially raising money for terrorist organizations.

That being said, I doubt he's a snitch. And the Outfit is so diminshed that he might not even really hear all that much about the above these days. Twenty years ago? He probably knew every thing that went down in the Chicago underworld. These days? Probably not.

if the syndicate had enough juice to find nick calabreses whereabouts in 2005, then they definitely had enough juice to figure out if difronzo was snitching 25 years ago

Elmwood park is gonna make people as soon as he drops dead or fully retires

If you read my post you would see that I am hypothesizing that DiFronzo would be a "snitch" regarding other underworld criminals and organizations, not the Outfit.

When did the Outfit find Nick?

You mean when they heard he'd been whisked out of prison to WITSEC?

Hardly insider information. He was in general pop one day and then he was gone. Not exactly rocket science to figure out what happened.

jonnynonos and chicago have given this thread a breath of frsh air and some reality, kudos

Good point, but is there anyone worth ratting on? Anyone powerful enough or violent enough to rat on?

Have there been any big busts in the last twenty years that he could have been an informant on? Sarno? Family Secrets? I don't think there is.

Would DiFronzo have known that Zizzo was going to disappear? Would he have approved it?

Thanks Cheech. Jonnynonos & I have the right idea about the Outfit in 2013.
I can make a good argument either way about Johnny DiFronzo being a dry snitch. I am going to ask my father's former crimimal attorney's office a legal question.
The question is this: If the Government had indicted DiFronzo in the Family Secrets Case and he had been found 'not guilty', could the Government try him again concerning the same thing or would that constitute Double Jeopardy?

DiFronzo had nothing to do with Zizzo disappearing. Zizzo belonged to the Cicero Crew. There was an internal dispute within the Southern Outfit Blue Collar group over Poker Machines. I seriously doubt he knew about it. Noone would have had the nerve to try and tell him in advance. Besides, since he retreated, he would have nothing to do with it nor would he care about it.

I guess it would depend on the exact charges. But as you know, that is what almost got the FS convictions overturned.

Thanks Cheech!

There is an interesting wire transcript on one of the last known Chicago Outfit hits, it's of a wire this guy wore on the guy who killed the Hatch, Anthony Calabrese.

It's pretty entertaining reading. This guy wearing the wire starts to try to get info and Calabrese and Robert Cooper freak out and either beat him up or came close to beating him up right there.

The Sun Times used to have it posted but no more.

Cooper ultimately pleaded guilty while Calabrese is in for life on other charges.

Cooper and Calabrese once also broke some tatto artists hands with a hammer for tattooing a mobster's underage daughter.

I think it might have been Fratto's kid, but can't remember.

jonnynonos, Check your PM'S.

The outfit are so weak right now. Can't see them surviving all that long.

They'll hang in there for longer than you think, but you're right about one thing: The once very Proud Outfit is only a shadow of itself. DiFronzo has hurt the Outfit from progessing. In New York, DiFronzo would have been killed a long time ago.

What do you mean?

Hi Ivan, Sorry, I should have been more clear. Hypothetically, If DiFronzo had been one of the Bosses of one of the New York 5 families, He probably would have been killed a long time ago because of his retreatment and attitude.

Not specifically for taking part in the Spilotro brothers murder but they could have potentially tried him again for conspiring to murder the Spilotros. IIRC, Joe Massino's lawyers argued the same thing after he beat the initial conspiracy rap in the three capos murder before being tried again for the actual murder later on - which he would be found guilty of. Conceivably, the same could have been done for DiFronzo had he been acquitted in the Family Secrets trial.

The main difference between the two was that substantial evidence surfaced in the nearly twenty years between Massino's two trials while we know about as much as we are probably going to know about the Spilotros' demise.

Snakes, Good info. So, what you're tellimg me is that DiFronzo could have been tried in the Family Secrets Case for taking part in the Spilotro Brothers Murder in 1986, and if he was acquitted, They could try him again for the same thing if more evidence was found at a later time for Conspiracy to murder. Am I correct?

If so, that strengthens the belief that DiFronzo and the Feds have reached some kind of understanding. Maybe He agreed to retreat with his men and that was it. Maybe there's a little more to it? Very interesting.

So, the bottom line is that the Feds really HAD NOTHING TO LOSE by indicting DiFronzo. Am I Correct in understanding your posting? What is the source of your Legal information if you don't mind me asking?

i'm sure they brought it to his attention and he didn't care

Well, Joe Massino was basically tried twice for the three capos murder: The first time for conspiracy to murder (which he beat) and the second time for the actual murder (which he was found guilty of). I don't have any legal proof other than the two trials, but here is a link to an article on Tommy Shots Gioeli which essentially deals with the same thing:

http://bitterqueen.typepad.com/friends_o...deral-cour.html

In his particular case, it involves murder charges being brought up in federal racketeering charges after he had already been tried (and acquitted) in state court for the same murders.

What you say about DiFronzo could have happened, although opposite from what Massino experienced. Perhaps a jury wouldn't have found enough evidence to convict him for participating in the actual murders but a case could still have been potentially made for him participating in a conspiracy to murder Tony and Michael.

Do you Chicago posters know if this guy Coconate knows what he's talking about? I know nothing about him or the website but i saw this today and he seems to think the Outfit is thriving.

http://americannewspost.com/frank-coconate/6961/judge-bob-bastone-is-the-chicago-outfit-dead/

The fact that Coconate is with Fosco means lack of credibility because he has a MOTIVE. His motive is to try and involve DiFronzo into something he really isn't involved.

When he says Difronzo is a silent partner in a Company that gets big contracts with the McCormick Place, THAT IS TRUE.

DiFronzo has nothing to do with the street rackets, so he really is not the leader of the Outfit, or what's left of it.

Joe Fosco himself has contradicted himself many times by saying DiFronzo is really not involved anymore and then saying DiFronzo is the strong leader of the Outfit.

Mike Magnafichi is a repetitive shop lifter.

The three of those guys are like the three stooges talking to themselves thinking someone is really listening. Noone comments on the blog.

I guess this question is directed at Chicago, but ill leave it open ended...

What i wanna know is how great is the actual presence of cosa nostra in chicago? By reading the Boston thread i can tell its very similar to how nj/ny is. What i mean is that lcn has influence basically in almost every aspect of the neighborhood. In any age, any business, legal or illegal, except big corporate or white collar biz. Drugs, sports, shy, machines, teasrer cards, burglars, local biz, retail, garbage, trucking, construction, unions, etc... There is a pecking order. In chicago is a connected guy more or less given the same respect he would recieve in ny? Im not saying every mob guy is equal, far from it. But say in a neighborhood like belleville or bayonne or bensonhurst being straightened out goes pretty far. So does being on the record to an extent. The levels of influence vary, but its repetitive after seeing it for so long. Say joe associate has four sons. One got a job at landscaper and wont be fired bc his boss doesnt want to piss off his dad, who now owes him a favor for putting his son to work. Son two is a junkie thief who robs cars who for his parole obligations recieved membership in the ila local xxx for 5k from his father, and in 5-10 yrs will most likely be elavated to shop steward or timekeeper. Son 3 is a bartender at the neighborhood bar and a degenerate gambler who got into jack the bookie for 100k but his father stepped in for him and the debt was reduced to 75-no vig and is able to work it off by being an agent for jack. Son four starts a vending machine company. He wants to get a stop at a local warehouse that nets 1000 a week. His father goes to his boss and his boss sends 3-4 young kids (just like joe's sons...) to tell the other vending co owner to take his machines out. Son 4 has his stop, and passes up 250 a week as a thank you. What im trying to say here is in certain nhoods you would be hard pressed to find a white person that doesnt know a connected guy. It is much less in the suburbs, but in the main neighborhoods, that kindof stature still exists and is respected. Dont know how it is in chicago, i know they are all part of the same organization, lcnj. Or is it more spread out of an organization where you dont really have that neighborhood presence anymore?

Thanks Chicago. Like i said i really don't know too much about the current Chicago Outfit or these writers.

The Rockford faction is very fascinating. Theirs not a whole lot of information about them online but I was lucky to who have grown up with the children of alot of the key players their. The Saladino's, Tiger Frisella, Galluzzo's and Fiorenzas. The boss up until 2005 was Frank "Goomba" Saladino. He was 1 of the 18 guys indicted in The Family Secrets Trial but never made it to trial because he decided to run and was found dead in Motel in Southern Illinois of an "apparent heart attack". He weighed atleast 400 lbs and was a very scary man. I played bocci ball with his son and grandsons at The St. Ambrosia Italian Club in Rockford. The man in charge now their is John "Tiger" Frisella who is one cool ass dude. My Dad used to own a warehouse in South Rockford where guys paid a monthly fee to park their tractor trailers. Tiger Frisella grew up with my Mom and was a friend of my Dad. He used the warehouse to store his video poker machines and crap tables in back storage room. Until it was time to put them in a safe spot to be used lol.

The Rockford Family is no longer the family it was in the 60's, it's more of a crew/faction now that obviously kicks up to Chicago. John DiFronzo is close friends with the Galluzzo brothers who are very old, like 80 years old + and he would come to the Fish Fry everyone in awhile at St. Ambrosia's Catholic Church. Ill never forget the night my close friend Nick Ciaccio pointed DiFronzo out to me and said "That guy right their they call No Nose and he's a very important person in The Outfit". I didn't think he was all that big cause frankly I hadn't heard much about him and at that time I had learned and been told alot about The Outfit. Well, as it turns out he apparently is The Big Skip now. Well, it's either him or Andriarcchi. I'm pretty sure from what I've heard though, it's DiFronzo who's on top now.

Anyways, I just felt like throwing some Rockford info out their cause I saw your mention of Rockford in your post. I also encourage you if you haven't already to read a book called The Pizza Connection. I just finished reading it and its an unbelievable read.

Skinny,
There is a Cosa Nostra presence in Chicago in certain neighborhoods, just not as much as before. 26th street area has the exact presence you're talking about with things being interconnected through somebody. Another area like that is Melrose Park, same thing. There's still some of that neighborhood connection around Grand Ave area, but not as much as Melrose Park or 26th street area neighborhoods.
Elmwood Park is different. There is that feeling of things being interconnected somehow to organized Crime, but it's more on a higher white collar level. The other three areas still have a more blue collar interconnected level in the neighborhood.
Again, I know this upsets a couple of other posters who want Chicago to be like it was in 1977, but as a whole, the Outfit is only a shadow of what it once was in this City. I WISH the Outfit was like it used to be in the old days when my father was alive and belonged to Taylor St. Sadly, it isn't. Why pretend anything else? the facts speak for themselves.
Everything in this Country has degenerated from 35 to 40 years ago. the only thing that has improved is technology. Nothing else has improved. Every time I turn on the radio, it reminds me of it when I listen to all the modern shit music that no one will remember 6 months from now. Why would the Oufit be any different? The Outfit has degenerated right along with America.
The Outfit in 2013 is like a football team that has the second string on the field trying to learn more about the offense because the star Quarterback and a couple other key players quit.

Chicago, I would throw Cicero and Berwyn in with those other neighborhoods as well. Although NOTHING like it was 30 years ago. A few weeks ago some gangbanger walked into Albano's Pizzeria in Cicero and robbed the owner -- a Sicilian immigrant-- and then shot him dead in front of his wife. CAN YOU IMAGINE WHAT WOULD HAVE HAPPENED 25 YEARS AGO IF THAT HAD HAPPENED??? In many ways the saddest thing about today's Outfit is how it has foresaken many of its old neighborhoods-with Bridgeport likely the sole exception. Elmwood Park indeed still has an Outfit feel to it, but it seems more like a town in transition and that "feel" is in the minds of those who remember its glory days and think it's still 1980 or so.

Chicago,

Do you know which building on Taylor Marco's Survivor's Club was at?

I know the corner, just can't figure out which building it was. (NE, SW, SE, NW, etc.)

jonnynonos, I don't remember exactly which building. However, there was talk on that stupid American New Post that Marco was not a made guy! LOL.

It's true that Cerone held Marco down. However, when Cerone went to jail, DiFronzo made Marco. How can you tell?

In or around 1986, Marco moved his headquarters from Taylor St. to Elmwood Park. That was the signal to everyone that Marco now belonged to Johnny DiFronzo. I couldn't tell you when they had a ceremony or who was present. It could have only been Carlisi, DiFronzo and Marco. Marco was made into Elmwood Park.

Why, someone foolish enough might ask? Because DiFronzo said so, that's why.

Chicago,

I remember Joe Fosco always saying that Marco wasn't made.

I obviously have no way of knowing, but if Marco isn't made, who *would* be made?

Did you read Bob Cooley's book? It's a pretty good read. Joe Fosco absolutely loathes Cooley. Yeah, he was a 'rat' I guess, but as far as his book being true, a lot of it came off of wires, so I think it's pretty credible. Anyway, Marco is one of the big characters in that.

If you watch that Chuck Goudie video from a few years ago when he confronts DiFronzo at the Loon, Marco is on the video.

In that video it showed John, Peter, and Joe DiFronzo along with Marco. But there were like 5 other guys there that they did not say the names of. Would've been interesting to know who they were.

Jimmy Cerami,who has passed was at the table as well as Dom Gambino who owns Tony's finer foods.

Interesting renokid!

I have heard that question asked several times, but never before got an answer.

Its strange, why when chicago pops up elmwood parker disappears??? Hmmmmmm

Chicago, you do see as next generation of guys in the Elmwood Park/Grand Ave. Crews nowadays under the DiFronzos, D'Amico and Andriacchi,etc. Do you feel they are eager to partner with Cicero again on the street stuff or that they will continue with what Johnny has put in place. @Nicky Eyes, another guy at The Loon that day is a guy named Bill DeCanio. He is a legit guy but does have political connections. That "meeting" was simply a bunch of guys having lunch. NO WAY DiFronzo would meet in public and discuss Outfit business in some bar/restaurant. He hasn't lasted this long for no reason whether he is a dry snitch or not...

***WHO do you see as the next generation of guys, rather, Chicago..

@12th street


did any of the original 12th street players join the syndicate?

As associates??? Am sure there are several, As actual "made" guys?? Not to my knowledge as of yet. I was never a 12th St Player or in any gang, just grew up in the area in the 80's and knew many of them. The Players and the Park Boys were predominantly Italians back then.

does any part of cicero have Italians or has it all changed?

There are some Italians left. Most are older people-their houses are paid off and their kids have grown up and moved away, etc. It has COMPLETELY changed in the last 25 years, absolutely. Many more Italians left in Berwyn, though

Cicero is pretty much completely Mexican now and I looked up the exact percentages of the town and it said Cicero was only 3% Italian. Sad because at one time it was majority Italian there. But many of the politicians there are still Italian, including the mayor.

I use to go to those lunches with Johnny and everyone when it was at Armonds every Friday.And you are right,there is no business spoken.It is just a bunch of friends eating lunch and bullshitting!

renokid, Correct. Thank you. Armand's would have been the last place for them to discuss business. They suspected everybody. There was a waiter who worked at Donald Angelini's restaurant who turned out to be an undercover F.B.I. guy. Yes, you heard me, a fucking waiter!

Yes, Nicky Eyes, sad but true. That's why I didn't include Cicero. However, I remember in 1968 when the Blacks were marching down Roosevelt Road towards Cicero during the Democratic Convention that was in Chicago.
The Italians were waiting for them with guns. True story.

Instead, over time, The Italians kept out the Blacks but lost it to the Mexicans. LOL.

12thStreet, I am not sure. That is a tough question about the future with Emwood Park and Grand Ave.

Good question. Couldn't give you an intelligent answer at this point. We'll only have to wait and see.

I knew Don real well.he usedto sit with me when I ate there.i remember all the wannabes coming up to kiss his ass.I would then say to him "here comes another wannabe".he would laugh and say you are right.
Don and I also had a few mutual friends that he dealt with for business.He was a real sweetheart.I miss that guy.A real class guy!

do you have any clue how many vice lords were on the westside in 68?

they woulda came to cicero on bullshit

Well they didn't so they obviously couldn't.

everybody knew the agreement

don't come shooting over here, we won't come shooting over there

The Vice Lords were afraid to come into Cicero in '68. That was Joey Auippa's area. Your Vice Lord friends would have ended up stuffed in trash cans. The Chicago Police, Cicero Police, Citizens of Cicero, some Outfit guys etc. were waiting for a reason to do it.

When was it in 65 I think??? MLK tried to march through Cicero and had to retreat so Lyndon Johnson called out the National Guard to help him march and THEN THE NATIONAL GUARD RETREATED, TOO???? LOL...Vice Lords didn't have the balls to do that.

Chicago is beyond right on this Vice Lord shit. Their wasn't a black/Mexican gang in the city who would've even dared to fuck with Cicero or any Italians their for that matter. Not even Larry Hoover and his group of knuckleheads. The GD's would have had a better shot at it probably.

I must say also that Vice Lords not only would've stuffed into the trash but they are nothing but trash as well. It bothers me when I hear gang bangers using word such as mafia or even gangster. Because they couldn't even match what a true authentic Gangster really is. Not to mention the majority of gangs these days and pretty much through out history are the most dis organized non-loyal group of wannabes walking the streets. The only group I would remotely give credit to was GD's in the 80's. Larry Hoover and maybe Carl Fort would be the only individuals I would consider as Gangsters who had their shit together and pretty well organized.

Say what you want about The Outfit. I am NO damn Outfit groupie but Cicero was DEFINITELY a safer place when they were powerful. Their demise in the late 80's and early 90's in that neighborhood coincided with the rise in the Hispanic gangs that moved into Cicero with the change in demographics. No that is not a racist statement, THAT IS A TRUE STATEMENT. Hell, my child is half Hispanic..:) The gangs and the drugs got out of control in that neighborhood and the boys from the Big Top on Austin and Roosevelt NEVER would have allowed that. Not because they were moral and just people - THEY WEREN'T - but gang shootings and drugs bring too much heat so examples would have been made of those gangs real quick

@Chicago

the vice lords weren't scared of cicero

the west side of Chicago was a lot rougher of a neighborhood than cicero


@logomassini


jeff fort and the blackstones/el rukns were more fearsome than the gds

jeff fort has probably met aiuppa or cerone or atleast frank laporte or pilotto

You're a bunch of L7's if your from the go you know what I mean. Stop dick riding the guys your pops were extorted by.

Cook County, That's fine. I don't care about the stupid Vice Lords.
The POINT is that in 1968 during the National Democratic Convention, Black people were marching down Roosevelt Road headed towards Cicero to protest that Cicero was not integrated at all. When they got to the border, the Italians were waiting for them with guns along with the Cicero Police. The Black demonstrators turned around and headed back east on Roosevelt Road.
That's the POINT. Forget about the Vice Lords or anybody else because they have nothing to do with the POINT being made.
If you don't believe it, I don't fucking care. Look it up in a history book.

L7....Been awhile since I've heard that. The Sandlot I believe? Good movie but.....Well never mind.

Solly has a younger wife, but no young kids.

Sorry for going off topic, VLs had around 3,000 members then.

Just a side note, there is a VL branch called Cicero Insane VLs. But I digress.

Upped

Paul Carparelli was a 12th Street Player and now made man. Most Players weren’t Italian so not many options for the Outfit. Many more C-Notes that became made men, even though most of them weren’t Italian either.

Black gangs were certainly not afraid of the mob.. They all had a a few hundred 12 year old kids with guns bigger than them ready to throw their life away.



Today the Outfit is 6 different independent crews working gambling and construction.. strong leadership kept it all together and that’s all gone. It’s around in name only.

Allen Dorfman Is Dead | Chicago Outfit | (1983)