The mob is dead. Just admit it.

Compared to what they used to do , its dead when it comes to violent crimes..

Thoughts?

The mob has moved on to other things. I don't see them really using violence anymore to conduct business. Unless of course those stories don't make the paper.

I'm speaking of the Italian mob. I think alot of what they deal with are white collar crimes like fraud and stuff like that. Gambling is still a good way to make money along with loan sharking. Cause we all know that not everyone can go to the bank and get a loan. There are many people who's credit is just messed up where they will never be able to get a loan on a car or house.

Agreed! Morta has visited LCN!

As long as you have bookmaking, sports betting, loansharking, narcotics, extortion, corrupt labor unions, and people that buy stuff that fall of the back of a truck, you are going to have the Mob! They control too much money to give up!

Bookmaking and sports betting are the same thing....

When a guy can operate under thier noses without fear the Mob shows its weakness! It's over, they can't enforce thier rules on themselves how can they control others? It's all nostalgia now! They don't rule any neighborhood anymore! It's all fractured. Suburb kids are pussies and that's who there suppose to recruit? Don't tell me Brooklyn isn't a suburb! The Bronx is the only non suburb borough!

yea in a way it is dead..but like beanshooter said if you have gambling on sports,bookmaking on lottry numbers,loan sharkin and drugdealin...yea there will always b a mob...but look at that, it aint much anymore at all...and if they legalize sports betting in jersey thats even less 4 the mob..They might as well start drug dealin,high priced car theft,credit card skimming devices{which someone should b shot 4 stealin anyones cc info i feel..!} if thats all thats left to make any money any more,that aint good..but i aint i thief so i dont know all the skuttlebut..yea when it comes to violent crimes wit todays forensics..i wouldnt leave a hair folicle or a fart behind in a crime i commit these days....

It's a Mob or Mafia and its controlled, just because a guy takes bets doesn't make him a mobster. Try and make book in NYC twenty or thirty years ago, you would have got your head cut off. Now there's little fear or organization.

There is a difference between the Mafia no longer having the position it once did decades ago and it actually being dead. At least as I understand the term. As a result of mainly attrition and law enforcement, the Mafia certainly is dead in several cities it once inhabited. But it's certainly not dead in New York or, to a lesser extent, in New Jersey, New England, Philadelphia, or Chicago.

Some of the rackets have changed. Others have not. Violence isn't used as widely, often for good reason. But it's not just a result of the mob being weakened but also of it having to adapt to the times. In this day and age, murders cannot be committed as freely as they once were. Once the damage is done, the risk of hunting a rat down may outweigh the reward. If anything, the mob has shown that it can still largely function, even if at a weakened state, despite the rats. Individuals may defect, including high-ranking ones, but the organization goes on.



Even today, non-connected bookies in New York, and certain other areas of the Northeast, are more the exception than the rule. Especially if they're not just small-timers. If you look at the cases going back more than decade, virtually every major sports betting bust from Boston all the way down to Philadelphia has been mob-connected in one way or another. It's one business the LCN has been rather successful in maintaining it's dominance over.

Shit in Chicago the fella's still got there hooks in the books and lending, but the ruskies and greeks have there fair share of action too and i don't think they're kicking up as EHI said 20-30 years ago would've been a different story shit 10 years ago if you were on the rader you woulda been paid a "courtisy" visit. Though it seems the boys still have alot to offer to guys on the up and up but then what the fuck do i know but what i know LOL.

When you talk about the Russians and Greeks having "their fair share of action too," are you talking about sports betting? When was the last time there was a bookmaking bust in Chicago that involved an operation run by Russians or Greeks? The only thing that comes to mind is when Joseph "Pooch" Pascucchi and Demitri "Jimmy" Stavropolous (who's obviously Greek) were charged with bookmaking back in 2004. But they are both Chicago LCN associates.

clearly not loadsa money still made and many families still in existence. the mob is dead in relation to the past is silly. cant be dead if alive and strong. obviously it has shrunk in power tho

What I find is some people forget that, no other criminal group in the US today has had as much success in the past few decades as the Italian-American Mafia has had. For the sole reason that people know the mob was so big and powerful once, when they look at today's modern mob, it looks minuscule in comparison. However, even with other ethnic organized crime groups today, none of them have reached that point in power yet and probably never will simply due to the time's we live in. That's also just what the Italians are doing today, just living under the same roof as all Russians, Asians, Albanians e.t.c.

I think some people automatically assume they have to be the best at everything just because of past days.

That

Yeah it's not on the type of level of these fella's but off-hand i can think of a couple guys in the suburbs who do even if it's just to break even on their bets, kinda like selling weed just so you can smoke for free. There's black and latino bookmakers too , and i won't say that none of them are kicking up but i know all of them ain't. Mostly these guys got around 5-10 steady bettors and more or less seems to be start up guys, but yes Ivy i talking about greeks and russins if you look on the IDOC inmate search you'll find a wide varity of activity, alot of them Eastern Europen and some middle eastern guys too (Palastine) but that's more medicaid and link card fraud. It's there if you look though.

Clearly not dead, just look at how well the Genovese family are doing, Gambino's have restructured a bit and still have a huge family, made some smart choices in terms of leadership, ie Cefalu and Cali.

The next 5 years are huge for the Lucchese's, if Crea can steady the ship they can get back on the right path, saying that they could easily go down the same road as the Bonannos or even worse the Colombo's.

Cats in Philly still putting in major work!!!

Let's be honest here, blacks and hispanics aren't the types to get into illegal sports-betting. They just don't have the mind for that type of crime. Not the average criminal these days, anyway. During the 70's , early 80's sure...The guys doing that in NY are pretty much still Italian, or if not, they're just regular Caucasian with some connected looking muscle.

Only difference is, instead of doing it in the streets, they now do it through the internet. It's much easier and less attention drawing that way.

it's 2013 and you're still talking rhetoric from 1890?

but it's black and latinos that are lagging behind

blacks started "policy" which was transformed into the state lottery

oh yeah dont forget the genoveses they must be gettin stronger by the second.. we still dont know who the fricking leader is!!!!!!!!!1

Cats in Philly still putting in major work!!!

[quote=SinatraClub]Let's be honest here, blacks and hispanics aren't the types to get into illegal sports-betting. They just don't have the mind for that type of crime./quote]

Your kidding right? I can only speak for Hispanics but im sure there are Blacks involved as well. You ever been to Hispanic neighborhoods in the Bronx, Brooklyn, or Washington Heights? There's tons of Hispanic bookies in those areas. Many of them run their operations from the basement of bodegas or out of their own homes and like the Italians back in the day just take action from their own i. e. other Hispanics who they have known for years from the area. In terms of illegal sports betting, its very common to take bets on boxing and American and Carribean baseball games. My own dad used to do this out of his business throughout the 90s.

I think SinatraClub is right up to a point. It's a big reason why the LCN has been able to maintain more control over sports betting, i.e. because players are usually Caucasian. That's not to say blacks or Hispanics don't ever place bets but, at least in the Hispanic communities, the numbers or some other form of lottery seems to be the main thing. The Cuban Corporation certainly had it's bookmaking but it seemed to be secondary to the numbers. Whereas, for the LCN, numbers is secondary to the bookmaking.

I agree that in Hispanic communities numbers/lotto is still the main thing for most, but like I stated sport (particularly those involving Hispanics like Baseball) betting is a fast growing field. Even internet gambling is catching on.

So is there at least a consensus that, no, the mob isn't dead, but it's probably not as influential or powerful as it once was?

That is safe assumption that most will concur with.

the people on top now maybe a lot smarter than l. e. think... no murders no drugs..that is what the public sees as the mob still being strong.. the families have been purged of most of the animals.in prison or flipped. now these guys could use their clout to make money through contacts..selling food products, contruction supplies, bidding jobs, using what they have in unions.internet scams.shylock and booking games..seems like thy are not as strong..i think just smarter.. crea is a testimate to doing just this..now in the next few years he will have his worker coming home george z , conte and others they are a force make no mistak, gambinos have all of sicily to deal with and bring guys into the family now that the inzerrilos are allowed back to sicily. chins guys never missed a beat,the other families will take more time..just my spin

Thw westside will assimilate the ne and philly familys over time, or at least their territory. Too many italians not too.

Dude, I read some of your post's today and think you may need a Nap.

Take a day off from those specialty Brews and Buda and drink some water.

DP

Besides basically selecting past bosses in the New England and Philadelphia families, the Genovese family has looked towards Philadelphia's territory with a greedy eye before (they've always operated right next to the Patriarcas in New England). One, of course, involved Atlantic City back in the day when Bruno was killed. Then there was the plot by Genovese and Gambino members to kill Ligambi, Mazzone, and Borgesi. Supposedly, one reason Larry Ricci fell out of favor (in addition to not taking the plea deal in the ILA case) was talking too much about Genovese expansion into South Jersey. As for the future, only time will tell how long New England or Philadelphia lasts and if the Genovese or other NY families have the wherewithal to expand there.

Look at that! Ivy agrees with me! So, what does this "dp" stand for? Dbl penetration? Too kinky for me. Im not the kinda guy who likes male partners but watever floats ur boat my man, i dont discriminate!

[quote=bronx]the people on top now maybe a lot smarter than l. e. think... no murders no drugs..that is what the public sees as the mob still being strong.. the families have been purged of most of the animals.in prison or flipped.

Red whose that in your avator/

yeah how unfortunate many who agree with you. theres no soldato to defend the turf.[/quote]

could you expand on this plot to kill ligambi etc please?

Yeah I'd love to here that story.

840 years with no violence

Pete "the crumb" Caprio testified that he was approached by the Genovese to kill the three Philly guys and take over the Family. It has been discussed before, and the general consensus was that a Newark guy would have a hard time gaining the loyalty of the South Philly members. Therefore, Caprio and the Newark crew would not be able to successfully run the Philly Mob from Newark. Caprio was busted and flipped before the plan was carried out.

Here is the article on Petey Crumb testyfying:
http://articles.philly.com/2001-06-08/ne...ny-joey-merlino

The Mob isn't dead, I won't admit it, because it is not true. I don't understand why people have to resort to the extremes when talking about, the Italian-American mafia. It's either it's dead or it's almighty powerful like the lord in the skies above. Can't people just understand that the truth probably lies in the middle somewhere and that organized crime does change, and shift in mysterious ways.

I don't think the mob is really dead, just badly damaged at the moment. There will always be an element in society who thinks they are smarter than everyone else and looking for an easy way to make money without working. There will someday be a resurgence but maybe not so Italian. With the rise in terrorism, law enforcement has a lot of distractions away from the mob. Just m opinion