Gravano - the real face of LCN?

Here's, what I think. Probably you've read his book and watched his interview, he was always for the old ways of making business. He was strong, ruthless, killer, major money maker, not in the spotlights, careful and so on... till John Gotti comes as a boss. For me John Gotti being the boss, was the beginning of the end of the Gambino family then.

If Gravano and Frank DeCicco had been in charge, none of this would happen. John Gotti talked about "public" while Gravano said - "We have no public, we are a secret society". John Gotti loved cameras, Gravano avoided them. So I think the decision to become a rat was right, not only to protect himself, but because that is not the Cosa Nostra he once swore to. As we all know he never maked excuses for his life, and even now he is serving sentence, which meant, that as a rat he betrayed the people who no longer believed in the old ways, and the old rules. So for me that makes Gravano not a rat, but a man of dignity who live the life of a gangster, as he is meant to be lived. That's why I think he is the face of the old Cosa Nostra, before it's downfall. I'm not saying Gravano is good, I'm just saying he is the face of Cosa Nostra for me.

Yeah i always thought that the gambinos would have been better off if sammy was the boss

You do make a point. Personally, and from a mobster's perspective, I think Gotti was a disgrace to Cosa Nostra. But Gravano is what he is, a rat. There are no excuses.

On more than one occaision Gravano had other Gambino members set up to be killed so he could take over their action/rackets. That alone kills his chances for my vote for best 'face' of Cosa Nostra.

The only reason he did not rat to avoid jail time for his most recent charges and is 'dutifully' serving his sentence, is because there was no one else to rat on.

Bobby Manna gets my vote.

Any other top guy in that family (Gravano, DeCicco, even Locascio) would be a better boss than Gotti. Gravano was old school, low-key too. If one boss deserved to be ratted out, it was Gotti.

he only reason he did not rat to avoid jail time for his most recent charges and is 'dutifully' serving his sentence, is because there was no one else to rat on. TRUE.

Gravano is still a rat.

A rat is the lowlife in every work place that no-one likes.

True there is all kinds of grades of rats Gravano would be in the top end Gravano done a deal got out and went back to crime drugs etc he went rat to get out back to crime end off.

before sammy turned witness he was a huge earner with a lot of bodies to his name and he never hesitated to add more,and he was a toughguy. and lowkey too. if he had stayed on the streets i cant imagine how many more murders he would have committed because it was literally how he did business,and so if he had never got pinched he would've continued killing the people who got in his way or threatened his financial security -eventhough he also killed people over personal grudges- and he already had like what 20 murders when he got arrested with gotti. but anyway,what happened did happen and he's NG (no fuckin good!)

Who was killed for personal reasons? All of his killings, except Frank Fiola and probably someone else who threatened him. He is no good, and he is ruthless I admit that. But Cosa Nostra is this - ruthless, and murderous.

Others might argue that being a successful mobster consists of other character traits. Fox AND a lion, my friend.

Gravano gained control of teamsters local 282 from DB after he went to gotti to have DB killed. Theres no actual proof that what DB supposedly said was said and alot of people believe that gravano intentionally made up the story to have him killed just to gain the union and more money.

Sammy the Rat was dealing drugs and had a almost Casso-like body count behind him. He would have been serving life if he had become the boss instead of John Gotti. No matter how "low-key" or "business-like" you were in the 80s/90s- the kind of stuff that Sammy was up to would have got him locked up quick. In fact we were granted a peek of his life as "boss" with that extacy ring. How did that work out?

I think you would have seen a Amuso/Casso like regime with Sammy as head of the Gambinos. Extremely paranoid mass murders.

I disagree. Casso was a psychotic killer who didn't follow the rules, other example is Nick Scarfo. They both started killing their most loyal captains and soldiers without a reason. Let's take Al D'Arco, he was in the mob all his life, and even though... he betrayed it, because this is not Cosa Nostra, that was paranoid psychotic killing that Casso did. Same with Nicky Scarfo, when Leonetti left him, after the killing of his most loyal - Salvie Testa. John Gotti on the other hand was constantly complaining, even from the businesses that Gravano made, and that were profitable for Gotti too. He was always on the spotlights, on the cameras, things that are not right. Yeah Casso, Scarfo and Gotti were gangsters (not racketeers like Castellano or Bruno), but these are the 3 bosses that broke almost every single rule. But their soldiers, underbosses - Leonetti, Gravano, D'Arco do know that this is not what they gave their blood to. So they are out and the psychopaths are in jail, or dead. Leonetti is out of the life, Gravano will never be out of crime because this is what he is born for, Al D'Arco is also out.

I forget, what was Sammy Bull's status when Frank DiCicco went bye-bye? Capo, I think. In any event, that bomb was meant for Gotti as well. Had that succeeded Jimmy Brown would have been installed as boss, and we'd be talking about a whole nother Sammy Gravano, who may have eventually reached that exalted pedestal on his own dime, since Jimmy was an old man. But of course, this is one of the many what-ifs that fill these boards. Interesting, though.

Lets be honest with ourselves here. If gravano was in the same room as you, would you really walk over and say "i hate rats there the scum of the earth."? Most of u guys would fall over your feet tryin to give him a fuckin interview

You seem to forget that this is an OC forum why the fuck do you come on and belittle the posters about being bookworm fa***ts and all the other shit you and others seem to do. If it disguts so much stop coming on here. No reason to respond just think about the fact that if you're posting on an internet OC site and acting like your about that life (And that's exactly how you come across) well you are a bigger joke than we all already think you are with the exception of your friends.

And everybody with half a brain knows your get your info from the same place as we do but then try to pass it off as inside info, but anything you or your buddies ever posted i've been able to find on the net which means you have to.

Tell the doctor he needs to up your dosage your getting lucid again.

I let him know and thanks for the advice. Dont get to offended it's nothing personal just what y'all have brought onto yourselves. Fuck me 676 posts in less than 8 weeks this site must not suck that bad.

Whats the matter? Right arm sore from a reach around with cook county? Go lefty! I guess i should be careful or youll put up my name and address to

Btw its 678 posts in 8 weeks....

Gravano was great as a gangster, and apparently had alot of respect from his own crew because they never offered information up on him before or after his imprisonment..sure two of them got a contract to kill him, but they had no choice in the matter !!

I do not though buy his reason for flipping..saying that gotti betrayed him, so he was gonna betray gotti..that's all well and good, but he didn't just give up gotti, he gave up dozens of guys !!

If he betray only Gotti it won't be enough to get away with 19 murders. Btw I don't feel bad for the people he killed, they were also mobsters and killers, don't think they are some kind of saints. The worst is for their families, but here I'm talking about Cosa Nostra, the rules, and when a tough guy, and a stand up mobster becomes a rat. And what you say here of course you wouldn't say it in front of him, if I could I would ask him some questions, not judge him, this is the way the world runs, no one can change it, there are mobsters, police, crime, fair business, everything, this is the world we live in, don't judge people, cause they don't even care... And as for the society, Gravano made a favor for the people who were racketeered and threatened, and killed, but they continue to call him rat. There is a limit, Cosa Nostra got rules, when the bosses break the rules, you can break them too - become a rat, and put them in jail for the rest of their lives.

I'd make an argument for Tony Casso before I endorse Sammy the Bull.

(pre rat, of course).

Say what you want about the Gottis(John, his brothers, & son) but they were stand up. All that time that they were looking at and eventually hit them and none off them ratted. Gravano is the face of LCN. The LCN where people are expected to rat than to take their medicine. If you can't do the time do not do the crime.

He killed gotti neighbor for running.over son on accident. So not just gangsters who deserve it he killed

And if it was a thing of honor he would only have ratted out gotti. He gave up everyone. Other families. He did it cuz he knew he had something to get out of jail with. And then the moron got his whole.family put in jail! Wife, son and daughter, how honorable.

Do the time? These guys made con after con, what makes you think they won't betray Cosa Nostra, when the boss himself betrayed it?

The Gotti family except John Gotti didn't had much use of testifying agains other members, cause they were low level, they got no proof.

Sammy didn't kill johns neighbor.it was willow boy or charlie canig I think.it says charlie got rid of favaras body in the book about him

Brother Gene was a capo, brother Richard was also a capo, John Jr was a capo & then acting boss, & brother Vincent was also acting boss. So they had plenty to share also just the PR value alone of the FBI turning a Gotti, any Gotti states evidence would be priceless to the FBI.

Gravano was not a tough guy, he was a coward and the Gottis were not. They faced their time, Gravano could not.

I agree with a lot of what you say here, except for this point. If the society is above the individual (which is what it's supposed to be) then if he were a true believer, he would not have become a rat to save himself just because Gotti was a public figure. Look at Delacroce who had every reason to fight, start an internal war, etc., and he didn't. Why? Because he was a true believer.

Whatever, hes still a coward lowlife rat.

Exactly..that's why i don't believe his version of why he flipped..it had little to nothing to do with getting gotti..it had everything to do with getting himself out of prison fir his crimes and if that meant taking other friends down or lying about guy's in other families etc..he was gonna do it !!

Does anybody seriously believe that someone as sharp as chin gigante who obviously went through great measures to be cautious, never was caught on a bug committing criminal acts etc.., would tell gravano, someone he's only met once according to gravano that he ''invested many years in this crazy act''?? well that was gravano's testimony ..If i was on that jury, i vote not guilty on that line alone !!

Gravano killed way more than 19 people. He admitted to 19 but there is good reason to believe the number is a great deal higher than that. Casso was mostly right about Gravano's life despite all his other lies. Sammy was mostly whacking business partners left and right, including standup guys lke DB.

Hes completely full of shit for the reasons that he flipped, and if you need more evidence of it look at this life post La Cosa Nostra. His great redemption from his LCN life was selling X to children. D

Sammy was mostly whacking business partners left and right, then the rat start whacking Gotti&co to get out business partners were first.

Does anybody seriously believe that someone as sharp as chin gigante ? No, the bull was full of bull.

John & Charley Canig, Willie Boy, Gene, & Quack. Gotti was in Fla. Poor Favara.

Willow boy!

...his Indian name...

a rat is a rat full stop. and he put many ppl down, even ppl not like gotti. any kind of criminal or gangster loses all standing when ratting to the feds no way of justifying it.

Not meant in any way, shape or form as a refutation of any condemnation of Bull but...in the thousands of hours of fed tapes contemporaneous with the bug at the Ravinite, not once did Bull incriminate himself or say one negative word about John. Struck me as interesting.


source: Bull's ABC (?) interview with Diane Sawyer.

That's true. People talk about Gravano being the rat, and he was, but Gotti running his mouth did just as much damage.

In my opinion Gravano was the smarter one in terms of maintaning a low profile and being "true LCN". Had he been boss, I'm quite sure the Gambino Family would'tve taken such a hit as they did in the early nineties.

That being said, I personally don't like Sammy. He's complete murderous scum, lower than the dirt himself. He's a shitsack through and through and not just because he's a rat, but he murdered god knows how many people, got his family involved in a drug ring in Arizona, along with psychopathic nature.

Gotti was an arrogant, loudmouth blowhard. But one thing you always have to give him is that he walked the talk. After watching the 60 minutes interview on Gravano, he became one of the few mobsters I genuinely did not like or root for (the latter being a habit I try to curb)

so the bull becomes a capo of a smart crew in early 86 if he knew whats going on with every other family why did he jump on promtions to get more clout. in 2013 im guessing theres 400 guys who did or not, made some money in that era 1976-1990. he wanted more. just look at the mobwives show. there dad was lowkey or not snitching after the bull, 20yrs and I bet 30+( read the scarpa files in the late 80tys they make 8 guys amonth) or more old colombos made in the 1970tys may be shit but not rats or reality starts.any one on the board know wat persico family got for numbers it went ghost.

Definitely agree that Gravano was more "true LCN" but not sure he would have ever been this great boss that would have changed the fortunes of the Gambinos. Although I will never argue Gotti was a great Boss, it does seem like he had the Gambino family at the top. He was 100% dedicated to his crime Family. The constant talking and flashiness definitely wasn't an ideal way to run a Family, but he definitely did "walk the talk" Without Sammy ratting Gotti would have still gone away, but the rest of the Family would have still been ok.
If only Frank DeCeccio would have just taken the reigns the Gambino Family may still be the head of the class, but what would we all do without Gotti conversation?

Here is what I think. I agree with most of your points. I think he could have been one of the best and highly respected for the ages but he became his worst enemy. I feel its usually a women, drugs or greed that throw smart powerfull positioned men off their foundation. With Sammy I think it was just his mind, he could not satisfy his need for controling every detail of everything around him. What you call micro management. He had managers for that, he should have left them to their tasks.

The best is knowing he has to deal with and suffer watching his discusting daughter hang out all her dirty laundry on the horrible fakeality show. Maybe its better off he is not dead so he does not have to roll over again.

DP

http://www.nytimes.com/books/97/05/18/reviews/970518.18westlat.html

The gulf war was going on at this time, and they watched it on television in the detention center. ''John's rooting for Iraq to win the war, for our troops to die and this and that. I told him one day, 'Look, it could be our kids in the Army. . . . O.K., we hate the Government. But what do these kids got to do with it? I mean, like it or not, we belong to this country.' ''