u think we will get a verdict this week? crazy its taking so long, you have to think its good for the defense but who knows right..someone must be holding out a guilty verdict
verdict this week definitely!!! now that they have cell-phone jammers or frequency jammers that everyday citizens can get why dont all these mobbed up guys get some or something similar to screw up the feds trying to tape them or track them, I am sure they could access those through the black market they make them that are as big as a pen.
im not so sure with all the changes and a short week. This may go till next week. I HOPE NOT. I must have missed a lot in the OLD HEAD Philly thread. Just noticed it was locked.
verdict this week definitely!!! now that they have cell-phone jammers or frequency jammers that everyday citizens can get why dont all these mobbed up guys get some or something similar to screw up the feds trying to tape them or track them, I am sure they could access those through the black market they make them that are as big as a pen.
Jammers don't work if a bug is placed on the phone. Whatever the callers can hear, the bug can too.
verdict this week definitely!!! now that they have cell-phone jammers or frequency jammers that everyday citizens can get why dont all these mobbed up guys get some or something similar to screw up the feds trying to tape them or track them, I am sure they could access those through the black market they make them that are as big as a pen.
Jammers don't work if a bug is placed on the phone. Whatever the callers can hear, the bug can too.
Ok gotcha...surprised there isnt some technology out there for that...I think I watch too much Homeland
im not so sure with all the changes and a short week. This may go till next week. I HOPE NOT. I must have missed a lot in the OLD HEAD Philly thread. Just noticed it was locked.
I agree I would think they'll need a few more days to get things together.
No verdict today ... I'm sounding like a broken record but at this point there must be a holdout or two that are not cooperating with the rest .. defense must be a little optimistic
Could be looking at a hung jury. If so the feds will tweak their case and re-indict asap, maybe even adding charges if they can get someone to roll over.
After awhile he might not have a choice, you can only tell the jury to go back and deliberate so many times. But as you say he'll try to get them to reach a decision one way or another before it comes down to that. I would think though in maybe a couple weeks if they can't come up with a verdict he'll seriously have to think about calling for a mistrial.
Apologies for the novice question but what's the difference between hung jury and not guilty-does not guilty have to be unanimous like guilty verdict ? If not that means hung jury ? Just double checking - if this goes to him jury what are the chances they get re indicted before getting out .. Borgesi must be going nuts at this point
with the new york guys beating murders in federal court more than awhile the 7 philly guys miss trial or what, the cake will be whitey bulger just making shit amess for all.
I'm glad somebody[Cheech] started this thing back up,the majority of the comments are sensible but its the ones that are posted between 2 and 5 in the early morning when guys get back from the bars and start talking crap.Not trying to ruin anything but you know who you are,in fact one has already commented today.I'll leave it at that.I'm a nobody but I hate when somebody ruins things for everybody.
I'm a nobody but I hate when somebody ruins things for everybody.
Agreed. That was a great thread. Threats over the internet? Lame. Good to see the new thread is up. And can't wait for it to blow up when the guilties and/ or not guilties come in.
I wish we could have some sort of poll on the outcome. I guess you can't break it down into 1 poll though, considering all the charges.
This trial has lost its luster,its getting on my nerves so much why even bother to look to see if they reached a verdict.Its ridiculous what in the world can be so complicated.So the next day where do they start? Does it go like this,so do you think he's guilty,yeah do you,how about you,no,why not,then the next day so what do you think is he guilty,no,how about you,yes.Is this what goes on 8 hrs. a day for 3 weeks.Come on these guys are not terrorist what is so complicated here,it boggles my mind.
This trial has lost its luster,its getting on my nerves so much why even bother to look to see if they reached a verdict.Its ridiculous what in the world can be so complicated.So the next day where do they start? Does it go like this,so do you think he's guilty,yeah do you,how about you,no,why not,then the next day so what do you think is he guilty,no,how about you,yes.Is this what goes on 8 hrs. a day for 3 weeks.Come on these guys are not terrorist what is so complicated here,it boggles my mind.
^^ Wow your angry man ... Staino having been under house arrest that won't count as time served right?
That is kinda weak a few thousand dollars...I mean fk, I am guessing anyone who loans out that cash wants it repaid, especially if they are using it to buy drugs
Apologies for the novice question but what's the difference between hung jury and not guilty-does not guilty have to be unanimous like guilty verdict ? If not that means hung jury ? Just double checking - if this goes to him jury what are the chances they get re indicted before getting out .. Borgesi must be going nuts at this point
As far as i know, not guilty is just that, the jury voted (usually unanimously) that there was not enough evidence to prove the charges. Hung Jury is when the jury can't agree on a verdict. Hung jury usually means they'll start the trial again with a new jury, though they might have to re-indict first.
If a guy is found not guilty he can't be tried again on the same charges, it's the double jeopardy rule.
Feel free to correct me on that, i'm not a lawyer but thats what i believe the terms mean.
seems like he was being a good drug dealer and keeping the product in s philly so these guys dont have to hit the badlands hahahah...and the feds needed to keep the tapes rollin no matter how little it was
seems like he was being a good drug dealer and keeping the product in s philly so these guys dont have to hit the badlands hahahah...and the feds needed to keep the tapes rollin no matter how little it was
Those to Feds assholes or not had to get their paychecks thats what they throw on the bosses desk at the end of the day
I'm a nobody but I hate when somebody ruins things for everybody.
Agreed. That was a great thread. Threats over the internet? Lame. Good to see the new thread is up. And can't wait for it to blow up when the guilties and/ or not guilties come in.
I wish we could have some sort of poll on the outcome. I guess you can't break it down into 1 poll though, considering all the charges.
No news - would be shocked if they let jury go for te weeked without verdict
On the BigTrial.net story that GA does, he said that the jury already asksed to leave early today cause of the potential snow storm. I am thinking next week. If not I think the judge will sequester them. After that, if this thing is still going who knows??
No news - would be shocked if they let jury go for te weeked without verdict
On the BigTrial.net story that GA does, he said that the jury already asksed to leave early today cause of the potential snow storm. I am thinking next week. If not I think the judge will sequester them. After that, if this thing is still going who knows??
Well they had too start over with the new jurors(alternates) If I were the defense I would have bad taste in my mouth having had two juors dismissed who seemed to lean in their favor(thats my opinion).
That's a good article giancarlo I like how mousie is yelling F this F That F u F him F me...on the wiretaps and he called a reported a jerkoff he don't give a shit because hes been in and out so many times compared to some of his co-fendents
No news - would be shocked if they let jury go for te weeked without verdict
On the BigTrial.net story that GA does, he said that the jury already asksed to leave early today cause of the potential snow storm. I am thinking next week. If not I think the judge will sequester them. After that, if this thing is still going who knows??
Well they had too start over with the new jurors(alternates) If I were the defense I would have bad taste in my mouth having had two juors dismissed who seemed to lean in their favor(thats my opinion).
agree and i am starting to change my opinion...they may very well all be found guilty...i think the defense got really unlucky with those jurors dropping off
Has anybody herd the tapes from the restaurant?? The defense said scoops dident really say anything about the gongs hit.. Is that true?? Or was it really said... And I hate to kinda get off topic but what do u think about skins and the tapes with Joey?? I really hope joey was smart enough to watch his mouth.. I understand it was prob. Business they were talkin about.. But mayb some1 can shed some light on both of these things for me... Thanks...
this is seriously nuts, it's only monday but the judge warned the jurors they would have to come back on sat-sun if they don't reach a verdict this week.kinda crazy
this is seriously nuts, it's only monday but the judge warned the jurors they would have to come back on sat-sun if they don't reach a verdict this week.kinda crazy
Lunch was clearly on the minds of jurors as they entered the 13th day of deliberations this morning in the racketeering trial of mob boss Joseph "Uncle Joe" Ligambi and six co-defendants.
Sticking with a routine established two weeks ago, the jury placed their orders shortly after arriving in court at 8:30 a.m. They also asked if Olive Garden and Red Lobster could be added to their luncheon options, according to several courthouse sources.
The answer was "no." Lunch is supplied by vendors who own businesses close to the courthouse at 6th and Market Streets.
Later the jury panel asked to rehear several tapes, including a 40-minute secretly recorded session from a mob lunch meeting at LaGriglia, an upscale -- this is no Olive Garden -- Italian restaurant in Kenilworth, N.J.
The lunch meeting, in May 2010, was recorded by Nicholas "Nicky Skins" Stefanelli, a Gambino crime family soldier who was wearing a body-wire for the FBI.
The LaGriglia tape was one of the first played for the jury after the trial began back on Oct. 18. That the panel has asked to return to that meeting now has raised eyebrows and questions about where the deliberations are heading.
Prosecutors have described the restaurant gathering of leaders of the Gambino crime family from New York and the Philadelphia branch of Cosa Nostra as a "meeting of the board of directors of organized crime."
But Christopher Warren, the lawyer for co-defendant Joseph "Scoops" Licata, has argued that it was simply a lunch. He described the attendees, including Licata, 71, who set the meeting up, and Ligambi, 73, as "a bunch of geriatric gangsters talking about old times."
Warren also has emphasized that Licata and the others turned down an offer from the restauraant manager to meet and eat in a private room, opting instead for the main dining area.
Why the jury wanted to rehear that tape, of course, is the central unanswered question from today's session. The discussions picked up on Stefanelli's body wire have nothing to do with the gambling, loansharking and extortion charges that are part of the current case.
Part of the tape included Licata introducing Ligambi as the "acting boss" of the Philadelphia crime family. (Joseph "Skinny Joey" Merlino, in jail in May 2010 when the meeting occurred, was described as the boss of the organization.)
There was also a discussion about a making -- mob initiation -- ceremony presided over by Ligambi in which Louis "Big Lou" Fazzini and Damion Canalichio were formally sworn in as members of the organization.
Fazzini, like Licata from North Jersey, pleaded guilty prior to the start of the trial. Canalichio, 42, is one of the co-defendants in the case.
Stefanelli, 66, recorded dozens of conversations while working for the FBI between 2009 and 2011. The LaGriglia tape was one of the first to be made public. Another tape, from a meeting at the American Bistro, a bar and grill near Newark, was also played during the trial. Only Licata, Fazzini and Stefanelli attended that lunch meeting.
While he was a prolific recorder of conversations, Stefanelli never made it to the witness stand. The mob soldier apparently had second thoughts about testifying against his former partners in the underworld. He committed suicide in March 2011.
Federal authorities in New York and Newark are still assessing dozens of other recordings that he made and that could figure in prosucutions in those cities. Tapes made by Stefanelli were also referred to in a case against a Rhode Island mob boss who pleaded guilty to a racketeering charge earlier this year.
The jurors also asked to rehear several wiretapped conversations from 2006 between Canalichio and mob capo Martin Angelina. Angelina also pleaded guilty prior to the start of the trial.
The conversations centered on problems at the First Ward Republican Club, an after-hours bar in South Philadelphia that authorities said Angelina and Canalichio controlled. Both were charged with having illegal video poker machines in the club.
On one tape Angelina and Canalichio expressed concern because members of the Pagans, an outlaw motorcyle gang, had begun hanging out in the bar. But when Angelina said they had to get the Pagans out, Canalichio replied, "How do you get rid of them? They're like fuckin' termites."
Both mobsters conceded that the Pagans' presence was bad for buisness and would drive other customers away.
"Nobody's gonna make no money in there," Canalichio said. "It will be death."
The jury was scheduled to resume deliberations tomorrow at 8:30 a.m. Whether they maintain the same pace or pick up the process was a question being debated after Judge Eduardo Robreno told the panel that he would have them come in on Saturday and Sunday if deliberations stretch through the rest of the week.
Lunch is one thing.
But no one expects the jurors to opt for Super Bowl Sunday -- who's bringing the dip? -- in the deliberation room.
This has to be BAR NONE the most ridiculous jury of all time.If you can't decide these charges in this time frame they all should be locked up and held without bail.Maybe they like their fancy lunches and not going to work every day but this is downright beyond the realm of sanity.The Commonwealth of Penn. just took 19 steps backward.I don't think terrorist trials last this long.
This has to be BAR NONE the most ridiculous jury of all time.If you can't decide these charges in this time frame they all should be locked up and held without bail.Maybe they like their fancy lunches and not going to work every day but this is downright beyond the realm of sanity.The Commonwealth of Penn. just took 19 steps backward.I don't think terrorist trials last this long.
so true...i say if it takes this long then there is reasonable doubt callem not guilty...end this charade...only in f'n s. philly...the iq level down there cant be that high
my apolgies to marineguy...i meant everyone except you bro
Warren also has emphasized that Licata and the others turned down an offer from the restauraant manager to meet and eat in a private room, opting instead for the main dining area.
Originally Posted By: Ted
Federal authorities in New York and Newark are still assessing dozens of other recordings that he made and that could figure in prosucutions in those cities. Tapes made by Stefanelli were also referred to in a case against a Rhode Island mob boss who pleaded guilty to a racketeering charge earlier this year.
Originally Posted By: Ted
Both mobsters conceded that the Pagans' presence was bad for buisness and would drive other customers away.
how long before you call it a hung jury...i dont get it
It's at the judge's discretion to decide how long before declaring a mistrial.
If the weather gets real shitty that will stir shit up evenmore I'd hate to me arguing with people all day for two weeks and getting the governments cheap stipend pay
Was 5 plus one half from what I heard, one black lady is off since she got sick
Can I get some action on the verdict ? or what I should say shout out to the jury "Can I get AMEN ..AMEN!!!!
I just think these jurors are clowns, I mean the asking for the olive garden or the red lobster kind of shows what is going on with them and their sponging off the federal govt. I can't believe that these people dont have a life or family that they want to get back to normalcy and out of that courthouse. One of those horse buggy guys down there on market is a federal court bailiff and he said these jurors just get overwhelmed by the case sometimes
I agree,I think the jurors now have the ''stockholm syndrome'' or at least a version of it.It's like they have accepted their role,it probably beats working all day,and with the free lunches,i'm sure some are getting to be friends now,its like this ain't so bad.In the beginning it was more hostile,now at the end of the day its probably like ''take care ,see you tommorrow,say hi to the kids.It's like a social gathering.What else could it be.On the 16th day do they come in and say hey do you think Staino really meant that threat.It takes 16 days for that answer.Hold them all in contempt.
I agree,I think the jurors now have the ''stockholm syndrome'' or at least a version of it.It's like they have accepted their role,it probably beats working all day,and with the free lunches,i'm sure some are getting to be friends now,its like this ain't so bad.In the beginning it was more hostile,now at the end of the day its probably like ''take care ,see you tommorrow,say hi to the kids.It's like a social gathering.What else could it be.On the 16th day do they come in and say hey do you think Staino really meant that threat.It takes 16 days for that answer.Hold them all in contempt.
Staino was a well-respected member of the union, his 2nd wife cuts my hair, I think that fbi guy entrapped him
I tell you what if this was just a hoax which it sounds like it was for somebody to put that out here is a sub-human piece of..... and needs to be PERMANTLEY thrown off these boards.Seems like its always the same troublemakers all the time.Please look into this SC and take appropiate action.
I think it's most interesting what will come out in the tapes regarding the visit to Merlino in Florida. Couldn't he (Joey) just be violated for associating with Skins?
I think it's most interesting what will come out in the tapes regarding the visit to Merlino in Florida. Couldn't he (Joey) just be violated for associating with Skins?
He apparently reported the incident to his parole officer so he's not in trouble for that.
One thing about Nicky Stefdanelli, does anyone know if the Gambino soldier who ratted and then offed himself the same guy who was variously listed as a Luchese associate and then soldier in the 80's-90's
I think it's most interesting what will come out in the tapes regarding the visit to Merlino in Florida. Couldn't he (Joey) just be violated for associating with Skins?
joey reported the meeting with skins to his parole officer immediately after
One thing about Nicky Stefdanelli, does anyone know if the Gambino soldier who ratted and then offed himself the same guy who was variously listed as a Luchese associate and then soldier in the 80's-90's
Yes, thats him. he was around the lucchese crew for a while back in the day but ive never seen him referred to as a made lucchese guy before.
This thing is headed for hung jury and they will all be released IMO ... Jurors seem to be milking the system ... they need to end this - becoming a joke to the taxpayer
KC Gizzo its not a matter of being gulible,but when you see someone thats been following the trial from day 1 and even claims to go there and says ''they are reading the verdict now'' why wouldn't you tend to believe him.Also a lot of people on these boards think Uncle Joe and Staino may be found guilty and Borgesi may walk.So basically that's what he said,what's so guilable about that.It sounded real to me.Like SC said one of the rules here is giving out false information,knowingly.Thats kids stuff.
Does the jury in the trial of mob boss Joseph “Uncle Joe” Ligambi and six co-defendants want to deliberate on Super Bowl weekend, or will the panel, which finished its 16rh day of deliberations this afternoon, come back with a verdict tomorrow?
The anonymously chosen jury of eight men and four women went at it for six more hours today without asking a question or requesting additional evidence. The panel has been holed up in the deliberation room off the 15th floor courtroom since Jan. 8.
Judge Eduardo Robreno told the jurors this afternoon that they will deliberate from 8:30 a.m. to 3 p.m. Saturday and Sunday if the process is still ongoing after tomorrow’s session. The trial,, which began on Oct. 18 and extended over 10 weeks, included approximately 33 days of testimony. Tomorrow the jury will have spent more than half that amount of time in deliberations, a virtually unheard ratio, according to veteran criminal defense attorneys.
“This is unbelievable,” said one.
The lengthy deliberations have already put a trip to Italy by lead defense attorney Edwin Jacobs in jeopardy. Jacobs is supposed to leave Thursday for the two-week trip, but Robreno has thus far denied the lawyer’s request that an associate fill in for him if deliberations continue deep into next week.
When this trial began on Oct. 18 no one expected that it would still be going at by the end of January. Now it’s heading into February.
Ligambi, 73, and his co-defendants face a racketeering conspiracy charge in addition to assorted charges of gambling, loansharking and extortion. Ligambi is also charged with fraud and obstruction of justice.
Two questions hung over deliberations today. Will the jury finish tomorrow and who do you like in the Super Bowl? Most observers believe the odds are better at picking the Super Bowl than on when the jury will finish.
One thing about Nicky Stefdanelli, does anyone know if the Gambino soldier who ratted and then offed himself the same guy who was variously listed as a Luchese associate and then soldier in the 80's-90's
Yes, thats him. he was around the lucchese crew for a while back in the day but ive never seen him referred to as a made lucchese guy before.
Thanks Dapp, I think I saw him listed as a Soldier in a less than reliable article about the Philly North Jersey crew, I thought perhaps that one was his son but I guess not
One thing about Nicky Stefdanelli, does anyone know if the Gambino soldier who ratted and then offed himself the same guy who was variously listed as a Luchese associate and then soldier in the 80's-90's
Yes, thats him. he was around the lucchese crew for a while back in the day but ive never seen him referred to as a made lucchese guy before.
Thanks Dapp, I think I saw him listed as a Soldier in a less than reliable article about the Philly North Jersey crew, I thought perhaps that one was his son but I guess not
Yeah, dap wasnt he a Silver Lake guy with Tumac or TR??
KC Gizzo its not a matter of being gulible,but when you see someone thats been following the trial from day 1 and even claims to go there and says ''they are reading the verdict now'' why wouldn't you tend to believe him.Also a lot of people on these boards think Uncle Joe and Staino may be found guilty and Borgesi may walk.So basically that's what he said,what's so guilable about that.It sounded real to me.Like SC said one of the rules here is giving out false information,knowingly.Thats kids stuff.
Late Friday afternoon and nothing....This is getting crazy, if they show up with nothing after weekend deliberations I would screaming for a miss-trial if I was the defense...
Was Joe Ligambi a "garbage mobster" collecting a salary and benefits for a no-show job or was he a hardworking salesman who helped his company, South Philadelpha-based Top Job Disposal, win a highly lucrative contract at the Food Distribution Center?
That may be one of the questions the jury in Ligambi's ongoing mob racketeering case is now wrestling with.
The panel completed a 17th day of deliberations this afternoon without reaching a verdict. But the jury did ask for a copy of Top Job's contract with the center, a piece of evidence introduced by the defense during the 10-week trial.
What does it mean? "Who knows," said a defense attorney. "They've asked questions about this before. We don't know where they are."
More important, he and others observers said, is whether the jurors know where they are.
Are they, as Assistant U.S. Attorney Frank Labor suggested nearly three weeks ago, "wandering in the desert?" Or are they moving toward a resolution of the 52-count case and the fates of Ligambi and his six co-defendants?
The wandering, if that in fact is the case, will continue this weekend. U.S. District Court Judge Eduardo Robreno has ordered the jury to report at 8:30 a.m. tomorrow and again on Sunday if deliberations continue. The panel will be excused each day at 3 p.m.
The extraordinary weekend session -- coming at the same time as the Super Bowl -- was seen as an attempt by the judge to nudge the now marathon deliberation process along. But the jurors appear to be in no hurry.
"I think they're enjoying themselves," said another observer who has been close to the scene for several weeks.
The one piece of evidence the panel asked to see today was the Top Job contract that called for the company to receive about $17,000-a-week for removing waste from the sprawling 28-acre distribution center when it was located on Packer Avenue in South Philadelphia. It has since moved to Southwest Philadelphia.
Top Job had the contract for 10 years beginning in 2000. Ligambi was hired as a salesman shortly after the contract went into effect. His original salary was $1,000-a-week. In 2008 it was reduced to $500-a-week. He also qualified for medical benefits.
What role he played in obtaining the contract for the company was a fundamental question that was never clearly answered during the trial.
Testimony from a Food Distribution Center executive indicated that Top Job got a chance to meet and pitch its proposal for handling the trash removal business through the intercession of Anthony Borgesi, Ligambi's nephew and the brother of co-defendant George Borgesi.
Ligambi's job at the trash company is related a charge that he used his "no-show" job to fraudulently obtain $220,000 in union-financed medical benefits for himself and his family. If the jury finds that he had a legitimate job and did work for the company, the fraud charge would appear to be without foundation.
Questions about Ligambi's role with the trash company were first raised in a report by the New Jersey State Commission of Investigation in December 2011. The SCI report, entitled "Industrious Subversion," cited what it alleged was his no-show job as an example of the mob's incursion into the trash business.
Ligambi was one of nearly a dozen mob members and associates linked to trash companies in different parts of the state. (Top Job was affiliated with a New Jersey company at the time.) The SCI labeled them "garbage mobsters" and said they had a "hidden hand" in the highly lucrative operations of the trash and recyling businesses.
Ligambi and his co-defendants are all charged with racketeering conspiracy, the primary count in the indictment. He and the others also face assorted gambling, loansharking and extortion charges. Ligambi is also charged with one count of obstruction of justice.
That the jury is again focusing on Top Job could indicate that it is drawing to the end of its deliberations. Then again, it could just mean that the panel is wandering around in a 52-count indictment and still unable to reach any conclusion.
Contact George Anastasia at ganastasia@verizon.net.
One thing about Nicky Stefdanelli, does anyone know if the Gambino soldier who ratted and then offed himself the same guy who was variously listed as a Luchese associate and then soldier in the 80's-90's
Yes, thats him. he was around the lucchese crew for a while back in the day but ive never seen him referred to as a made lucchese guy before.
Thanks Dapp, I think I saw him listed as a Soldier in a less than reliable article about the Philly North Jersey crew, I thought perhaps that one was his son but I guess not
they probably forgot to mention soldier in gambino family, he got around had lots of friends all over the place
Originally Posted By: Skinny
Originally Posted By: TonyBoy117
Originally Posted By: Dapper_Don
Originally Posted By: TonyBoy117
One thing about Nicky Stefdanelli, does anyone know if the Gambino soldier who ratted and then offed himself the same guy who was variously listed as a Luchese associate and then soldier in the 80's-90's
Yes, thats him. he was around the lucchese crew for a while back in the day but ive never seen him referred to as a made lucchese guy before.
Thanks Dapp, I think I saw him listed as a Soldier in a less than reliable article about the Philly North Jersey crew, I thought perhaps that one was his son but I guess not
Yeah, dap wasnt he a Silver Lake guy with Tumac or TR??
dont recall, when the whole thing popped off capeci wrote a column about why skins was made with the gambinos and not the lucchese crew and what happened over the yrs
i dont specifically remember, it wasnt anything too interesting it was a bit disappointing if i recall thus why i dont remember it, i will do some digging and see if i find it and will share.
i dont specifically remember, it wasnt anything too interesting it was a bit disappointing if i recall thus why i dont remember it, i will do some digging and see if i find it and will share.
Grown-ups,can not come to a decision in this case truley shows that changes are needed,maybe they do need what they call ''professional juries'' doesn't some other country have them.If I'm facing 10 or so years in jail I want compentant people making that call.Just saying...
Looks like it's onto Super Bowl Sunday - agree with 22 comments above ; after a decade long case this is ridiculous - these jurors and judge don't deserve pay from taxpayers
i dont know about the professional jury but this jury is ridiculous, have a bunch of followers on there and no one is leading the jury or is in charge it seems
Just a thought . Maybe the Jury doesn't believe that the crimes should be illegal ! I think we may see many of the charges as Not Proven or Not Guilty ? I don't understand the laws with poker machines, but shouldn't the bar owner be on trial ? Didn't the bar owner pay out ?
I could see when I look back that Angelina has an extensive record but Lucibello has always seemed to miss the big time convictions.What I'm getting at is I wonder right now if Lucibello had it to do over again he would have still pleaded guilty.I saw his prison time its not like he has a lot but if he had seen it through he may have beat it altogether of if found guilty maybe not getting much more of a sentence then he already got,bands he has a pretty clean record.It's like he almost had nothing to lose if he took the trial where on the other hand Angelina if he had been found guilty he would have been looking at substancial time.Yes-No?
Consider the source. Dicknose is, well, a dick. No offense Dicknose. If you were following that closely, you would know anyway. So yeah gullible if you believe a known dick, who is known to have a laugh at people's said gullibility. SC don't need to be brought up, he does what he sees fit. It's only an issue for him cause you were upset about it.
On the topic, Borgesi walks. Limp Dick Lou seems like a guy that tries too hard and comes across as dishonest. Staino gets some light sentence for being a by-proxy kinda tough guy. Canalichio goes down longer (no maricon) on choice of words and decides what he wants then. 50/50 on Ligambi. Tough to convict on some laughs even though less has convicted. But if Borgesi gets off, Ligambi is okay there. Scoops walks to talk another day. But, it doesn't matter, Nicodemo is flipping IMO. I wanna know where the CH Gambinos sit if Philly gets decapitated b/c of that. Eat up some of a dwindling Philly's S. Jersey business? More? They seem to do things a bit different.
Don't agree with you one bit there Gizmo,first of all I don't know Dicknose so I took his word for it like a lot of others did.No.2 SC keeps an eye on him anyway having already suspended him at least once and then reamed him for something else he did last week.You know on these boards you expect people to act like adults,yeah some kidding and testy jabs are ok but I don't see absolutley nothing,I mean ZERO funny about people waiting for this verdict and then he pulls what he does.It's over,I'm in good standing here,converse with everybody,made some friends,next.
Question on the 'no show'. Well, 'no shows' in general. What is the crime in paying someone for a no show job. I mean, provided the employer wasn't extorted, where is the crime? This is especially true of Ligambi's specific "no show". After all, he got the company this cash cow account. Doesn't that warrant continuing commissions in the form of paychecks?
The union benefits? Maybe. But if Ligambi is a dues paying member, then where is the fraud here?
I'm probably being semi naive here but I don't see how the "Top Job" job should be illegal (provided the owner consented to it).
Question on the 'no show'. Well, 'no shows' in general. What is the crime in paying someone for a no show job. I mean, provided the employer wasn't extorted, where is the crime? This is especially true of Ligambi's specific "no show". After all, he got the company this cash cow account. Doesn't that warrant continuing commissions in the form of paychecks?
The jobs are illegal because the recipients are getting pensions and insurance PAID FOR by the otherwise working members of the local. As a result, over time the rank and file members of the union end up with crappier and crappier benefits. It's union corruption, plain and simple.
Honestly, Frank, why is that so hard to understand? I mean, I'm sorry for the rant and all, but as you know I was a Teamster and eventually a delegate for 25 years. I've seen the decline of the benefits firsthand and I've also seen what the loss of benefits have done to the working class families in the union.
And for what? So some Goombah can get his benefits paid free while he sits on his lazy ass and some poor working schmuck pours fucking concrete or drives a truck all fucking day?
I don't really give a shit about the gambling and that other crap. As a matter of fact, I don't give a shit about the Philly family at all. They're a joke at this point and even the Philly locals know it. But these charges get under my skin because I spent a lifetime in service to organized labor.
whole thing is a joke, if this isnt a hung jury or a mistrial i dont know what is...not sure after 20 days of deliberations how u can come up with a guilty verdict...must be some reasonable doubt or this would have been over
If I am the defense team I would be pressuring the hell out of Robreno to call mistrial and release my fawking clients. And remember every day this thing isn't called is another day some may be losing out on some freedom with Nicodemo so close from turning - how much money has been spent on this trial for a few gambling charges , no violence at all is absurd ... Let them go!
Question on the 'no show'. Well, 'no shows' in general. What is the crime in paying someone for a no show job. I mean, provided the employer wasn't extorted, where is the crime? This is especially true of Ligambi's specific "no show". After all, he got the company this cash cow account. Doesn't that warrant continuing commissions in the form of paychecks?
The jobs are illegal because the recipients are getting pensions and insurance PAID FOR by the otherwise working members of the local. As a result, over time the rank and file members of the union end up with crappier and crappier benefits. It's union corruption, plain and simple.
Honestly, Frank, why is that so hard to understand? I mean, I'm sorry for the rant and all, but as you know I was a Teamster and eventually a delegate for 25 years. I've seen the decline of the benefits firsthand and I've also seen what the loss of benefits have done to the working class families in the union.
And for what? So some Goombah can get his benefits paid free while he sits on his lazy ass and some poor working schmuck pours fucking concrete or drives a truck all fucking day?
I don't really give a shit about the gambling and that other crap. As a matter of fact, I don't give a shit about the Philly family at all. They're a joke at this point and even the Philly locals know it. But these charges get under my skin because I spent a lifetime in service to organized labor.
Imo- the no show and the video poker biz take over are the only things worthy of jail time. In this case that is...we all know these guys are guilty as sin.
The defense hasnt been on the judge's ass calling for a mistrial because they probably figured its in their best interest for the jury to reach a verdict on these charges (hopefully not guilty) so then double jeopardy rules come into effect and the govt cant charge them again for these same crimes, if for example Nicodemo were to flip and a new superseding indictment were released with murder charges next to these charges. That would present an even tougher situation for the defendants to win. Usually when mob guys are charges in an indictment with murder charges, 95% of the time something will stick even if the murder will not.
Plus lawyers are expensive, some of these guys who are paying for their lawyers would probably want to get a verdict in this trial to get their moneys worth.
It's all in the judge's court right now, it will get to a point where he will realize that progress will not be made and make a decision then. Right now, the jury continues to ask to see certain pieces of evidence which would make one conclude that they are actively deliberating the charges in detail.
They better be deliberating every fucking ounce of evidence if it's taking them this long to reach a verdict. Ligambi's and co gotta be banging their heads against the wall
I would think they are going nuts also but most of them have done long stretches in their days - Moussie basically half his life - Borgesi basically counting his hours now - rat Monacello discredited on the stand
Didn't realize that a judge could accept partial verdicts.
Sure he can. It's possible (but not likely) that they've been hung up about one guy or even one count on one guy all this time. So don't be shocked if it comes out that they voted Ligambi (or someone else) guilty (or not guilty fot that matter) two days into this thing.
If I'm one of the top guys, I'm still concerned about getting convicted of something. The witnesses were all bottom feeding lowlifes and junkies, but the tapes were pretty damning. Time will tell. And I've been wrong before.
Kaboni Savage There are gangsters and then there are 'gangstas.'
The difference was seven floors apart in the U.S. Courthouse in Philadelphia today.
On the 15th floor a jury continued to deliberate without reaching a verdict in the racketeering conspiracy trial of mob boss Joseph "Uncle Joe" Ligambi and six co-defendants. By most accounts, they would be described as the gangsters.
Meanwhile, on the eighth floor, a different jury heard opening arguments in the racketeering trial of convicted North Philadelphia drug kingpin Kaboni Savage and three co-defendants.
In underworld and law enforcement circles, Savage, once described by a top Philadelphia police official as "pure evil," would carry the gangsta label.
The Savage case involves 12 murders, including the October 2004 firebombing of a North Sixth Street rowhome in which six people, including four children, were killed. Save and co-defendants Robert Merritt and Steven Northington face possible death sentences if convicted.
Assistant U.S. Attorney David Troyer, one of the prosecutors in the case, told the jury this morning that Kaboni Savage ordered that bombing in an attempt to intimidate and silence Eugene "Twin" Coleman, a former drug-dealing associate who had begun cooperating against hm.
Coleman's mother, Marcella, 54, was killed in the early morning fire along with Coleman's 15-month old son. The four other victims, a woman and three children, were also related to Coleman. The woman was his cousin. The children were two nephews aged 15 and 12, and a niece, age 10.
The firebombing has been described as one of the most horrorific examples of witness intimidation in the Philadelphia drug underworld, an underworld where witnesses and their families are frequently targeted.
"No witness, no crime," Troyer said Savage told an associate on one of hundreds of secretly recorded conversations gathered by the FBI during a lengthy investigation into the 37-year-old cocaine dealer.
Savage, a former professional boxer, is already serving a 30-year sentence for a 2005 conviction for drug dealing. It was while awaiting trial in that case, authorities say, that he ordered the firebombing.
"He ruled by fear, by intimidation and by murder," said Troyer who in a two-hour opening statement played snippets of some of the tapes the jury will hear during the trial and quoted from others, including a comment after the firebombing when Troyer said Savage had learned that Coleman, who was in federal custody, was going to be escorted by federal marshals to the funerals of those who had been killed.
"When they take him to the funeral they should stop off and get some barbecue sauce and pour it on them burned bitches," Savage allegedly said.
Two of Savage's co-defendants, his sister Kidada, and Robert Merritt, have also been charged in the firebombing. A fourth co-defendant, Steven Northington is accused of carrying out other murders on Savage's orders.
Eugene Coleman is expected to be one of several former drug associates to take the stand during the trial which is scheduled to last about three months. Lamont Lewis, another associate who has admitted to taking part in the firebombing, is also cooperating.
Lewis has said that he and Merritt threw two cans of gasoline into the rowhome and fired shots into the house to insure that no one would attempt to flee.
"In seconds the house was a blazing inferno," Troyer told the jury. He said as Lewis and Merritt walked away, "they heard a woman scream."
But in his opening arguments, Christian Hoey, Savage's court-appointed lawyer, urged the jury not to rush to judgment based on emotion. Hoey called the firebombing deaths "a tragedy of epic proportions."
He said there was no dispute about what happened. But he cautioned the jury not to accept Lamont Lewis's version of why it happened.
Lewis, he said, has admitted to 11 murders. He called him "an assassin," "a stone-cold killer" and "an iceman." And he contended that Lewis implicated Savage in the firebombing because he knew that's what investigators wanted to hear.
Hoey's account placed Savage as a player, but hardly a kingpin, in a Philadelphia drug underworld populated by treacherous drug dealers with links to govenment, politics and even City Hall. Hoey acknowledged that his client had said many things on tape that were "vulgar" and "outrageous" but he contended that much of it was said out of frustration and anger and was never acted on.
Savage's own words, picked up from phone tapes, prison recordings and a electronic listening device placed in his cell in the Federal Detention Center in Philadelphia are expected to be a big part of the evidence introduced during the case.
Troyer made repeated references to Savage's own words in his opening, sprinkling his two-hour narrative with comments that underscored what he said was Savage's vindictive and violent nature.
Less than a month after the fireboming, Savage continued to rail against cooperators, telling an associate, "I'm just getting started ... The night is still young."
"I'm going to kill everything you love," he allegedly said to another person he thought might be cooperating. And later threatened to kill the cooperator's daughter, boasting, "I gonna blow her little head off. She about five."
"I dream about killing these kids, cutting these kids heads off," Savage said on another tape while ranting about the families of former associates who had turned on him.
Troyer said Savage also threatened federal authorities, including FBI Agent Kevin Lewis, who spearheaded the investigation against him, and an unidentified captain in the detention center where Savage was being held.
Of the captain, Savage was picked up on tape saying, "He gonna die a miserable death ... I'm gonna set him on fire alive and watch him jump around like James Fuckin' Brown ... Douse him with gasoline and set his ass on fire ... That fire's a motherfucker."
Hoey tried to counter in his opening statement by quoting Lamont Lewis who, he said, admitted in one phone conversation before he started cooperating that the feds wanted him to "lie on somebody" in order to get out from under the charges he was facing.
That somebody, Hoey said, was Kaboni Savage.
He also said that Lamont Lewis' claim that he did not know there were children in the house before he firebombed it and that he confronted Kidada Savage over that issue didn't ring true.
Hoey said there were two different witnesses who put the lie to that claim.
A woman, Hoey said, saw Lewis walking away from the porch after setting the house on fire. The woman, Hoey said, said Lewis was alone. Hoey said the woman confronted Lewis, asking him, "Are you crazy? There are kids in that house."
"I don't give a fuck," Hoey said Lamont Lewis replied.
In another conversation, he said, Lamont Lewis told a friend, "People in the house were frying like chickens. I didn't give a fuck."
Hoey also claimed that Lewis walked a few blocks to a friends house after the firebombing and sat on a porch "smoking marijuana and listening to the fire truck sirens." Hoey also said Lewis asked about collecting a $100,000 reward that had been offered in the firebombing case after he decided to cooperate.
"That's like killing your mother and father and then asking the judge for mercy because you're an orphan," Hoey said.
The descriptions of Savage, Lamont Lewis and of six other murders that were also part of the case, took up most of the opening statements today. Lawyers for Kidada Savage, Merritt and Northington will make their openings when the trial resumes tomorrow.
On the 15th floor, meanwhile, the jury in the Ligambi case deliberated for seven more hours without reachng a verdict. The 20 days of deliberations come after a 10-week trial that included testimony and secretly recorded conversations about sports betting, video poker machines and loansharking.
Fox news said the judge was giving them an oportunity to deliberate a little more or give the partial verdicts. Willie on the REal Deal said that the partial verdicts are in so I am thinking the partial verdicts are going to get read today.
Kaboni Savage is pure evil. I hope they convict his ass. I think as it stands right now he'll be released while he's still in his 50's. That would be unacceptable. The Government should stop worrying about geriatric gamblers and put every spare dollar they have into making sure that that animal dies in jail.
I read on-line they will be read at 3'30 eastern time. They told the judge earlier they had verdicts on some counts and were hopelessly deadlocked on others...
Depends on how long Canalichio gets sentenced as to whether he would even consider flipping, this means the balls still in Tony Nics corner for the time being
Uncle Joe Beats Rap, Three Associates Guilty in Mob Trial
By George Anastasia for Bigtrial.net
After 21 days of deliberations, Philadelphia mob boss Joseph "Uncle Joe" Ligambi wound up with a hung jury on racketeering conspiracy charges.
The jury also hung on racketeering conspiracy charges for George Borgesi, who is Ligambi's nephew, and Ligambi's top associate, Anthony Staino.
Joseph "Scoops" Licata was acquitted on racketeering conspiracy charges.
They were the lucky ones.
The jury convicted three mobsters of racketeering conspiracy: underboss Joseph “Mousie” Massimino, mob soldier Damion Canalichio, and mob associate Gary Battaglini.
The jury returned a finding of either not guilty or undecided on most of the remaining 52 counts in the case. On the undercard, only Anthony Staino was convicted on two counts of loansharking involving an undercover FBI agent.
The big question that remains now is whether the government will retry Ligambi, Borgesi and Staino on racketeering conspiracy, the most serious charge in the case.
The verdicts announced this afternoon were greeted with cries, moans and shouts of anger by family members and friends who crowded into the 15th floor courtroom of Judge Eduardo Robreno, who had presided over the 10-week trial.
Ligambi, 73, was also charged with gambling, extortion, fraud and obstruction of justice charges. If convicted, he would have faced a 10- to 20-year prison sentence that would have effectively ended his reign as Philadelphia mob boss.
The other defendants were charged with related gambling, loansharking and extortion charges. But the most serious offense, and the one that carries the heaviest sentence, was the racketeering conspiracy charge that topped the 52-count indictment first handed up in May 2011.
Ligambi and four of his co-defendants, underboss Joseph “Mousie” Massimino, 62, capos Joseph Licata, 71, and George Borgesi (Ligambi’s nephew), 49, and mob soldier Damion Canalichio, 42, have been held without bail.
Two other defendants, mob soldier Anthony Staino, 54, and mob associate Gary Battaglini, 51, have been free on bail during the trial.
Ligambi, if he had not wound up with a hung jury, would have been the fifth Philadelphia mob boss convicted of racketeering in the past 25 years. Two of those mob leaders, Nicodemo “Little Nicky” Scarfo and John Stanfa, remain in prison. Another, Joseph “Skinny Joey” Merlino, was released last year after serving a 14-year sentence . The fifth mob boss, Ralph Natale, became a cooperating witness and pleaded guilty to racketeering charges tied to murder, extortion and drug dealing. He also was sentenced to 14 years in prison and was recently released.
If Ligambi had been convicted, mob watchers had been speculating that the power vacuum might have been filled by Skinny Joey Merlino. Merlino, 50, has been living in Florida since his release. He has indicated to friends and associates, however, that he has no desire to return to South Philadelphia.
Several top Merlino associates who were conivicted with him, are also free and have been identified by law enforcement authorities as still active in the underworld. That group includes mob leaders Steven Mazzone and John Ciancaglini. But both have maintained a low profile, opting according to several sources, to concentrate on making money rather than making headlines.
Another factor in the Philadelphia underworld is the return of several members of the Scarfo organization who close to 25 years in jail following their convictions for racketeering in 1988. Scarfo, 83, is one of the last of 16 defendants convicted in that case to remain behind bars. His release date, according to prison records, is 2033. In effect, he is serving a life sentence.
Mob boss John Stanfa, convicted in a 1995 racketeering case, was literally sentenced to life and has no chance to return to power.
The convictions announced today capped a tumultuous jury deliberation process that took up 21 days over a four-week period. Two jurors were replaced by altenates during deliberations, one became ill and the other admitted to prior negative knowledge about a defense witness.
Whether that second juror tainted the jury panel could be one area for defense appeals. The judge denied a defense motion for a mistrial over that issue during deliberations.
Defense lawyers are expected to appeal on several grounds, but that process could take several years and offers no immediate relief for those convicted.
Several of those defendants may also have more serious criminal problems connected to the unsolved gangland murder of John “Johnny Gongs” Casasanto in 2003.
A key suspect in that case, mob soldier Anthony Nicodemo, was arrested in December for the shooting of a South Philadelphia man. Nicodemo has been held without bail pending a preliminary hearing scheduled for Feb. 20 in Common Pleas Court.
Nicodemo is charged with murder conspiracy and related offenses in connection with the gangland-style slaying of Gino DiPietro, who was gunned down on a neighborhood street corner on the afternoon of Dec. 13. His arrest has sparked speculation that law enforcement authorities will pressure him to cooperate and tell what he knows about the Casasanto murder in order to help himself in the pending murder case.
No one has been charged with the Johnny Gongs hit, but authorities believe it was tied to underworld unrest at a time when Merlino and Ligambi were sharing power. Authorities would like to link both mob leaders to that shooting and have mentioned several other mob figures, including Canalichio, as individuals who may have knowledge about what went down and why on the night Casasanto was shot in the back of the head.
He was found sprawled on the floor of his rowhouse kitchen, leading to speculation that he knew those who killed him and let them into his house.
Philadelphia Police homicide detectives have a substantial file on the murder case and have interview potential witnesses. Investigators have a theory about how the murder took place and who was involved, identifying two shooters and a lookout. But to date they have not had strong enough evidence to make any arrests.
Sources say, however, that either Nicodemo or Canalichio could provide that information. The question posed by one law enforcement source was “Who goes first?”
Good. It was a shitty trial from the start, waste of money, and most of their charges were for things that aren't even bad. And pizzaboy will Kaboni Savage really only be in jail until his 50s? If so that's bullshit because .h. Se's pure evil saying on tapes he'd kill kids. Seems like the government cares more about bookies and loansharks rather than killers
What does sentencing look like for a clean (record) guy like Staino?
Also, how long are Massimino,Battaglini and Damion looking at?
Well they didn't get Staino on the racketeering charge so i would take a wild guess and say 5 years maybe a little more. He's been out on bail so i don't think he gets any time served credit off his sentence.
Massimino is fucked. Bye Bye Joe, see ya in 15 years.
I really thought Dame was going to walk, but he already has 2 felony drug convictions so i have a feeling he'll get around 10 years but with his priors it very easily could be more then that. But i'm just guessing on all of this.
Damion may not flip if all he's facing is 10 years. He's a relatively young guy. He'll get out when he's fifty with still plenty of time left to enjoy.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't Mousie and Damion the guys doing the most talking in the courtroom? Mousie with his "get the martini glasses ready," and Damion with his "I'm more worried about getting hemorrhoids" remark?
Well, I hope he doesn't get hemorrhoids on top of twenty years. That would really seem unfair. But you don't tug on Superman's cape, and you don't tempt fate. Believe it or not, likability counts in the courtroom. If they kept their mouths shut, maybe the jurors wouldn't have been so inclined to find them guilty. Because they both came across as childish and arrogant.
Originally Posted By: NickyEyes1
And pizzaboy will Kaboni Savage really only be in jail until his 50s?
Yes, according to the database, he'll be out in 2030, and he's only 38 right now.
Seems like the government cares more about bookies and loansharks rather than killers
I agree, Nicky. A hundred and ten percent. But you better be consistent. When these guys are re-indicted on the Gongs and Long John hits, I don't want to hear from you that it's a witch hunt, because you just said that the government should go after murderers. Right?
And I'm going to hold you to your answer, Buddy. Because those charges ARE coming. These are people looking at too much time right now not to flip. Tick tock. Tick tock.
I have to think that staino will appeal - he has no arrests and has been under house arrest - they could show some leniency. Feel bad for Moussie and Dame - they got hit the hardest but have to think they will appeal also.
And btw with the hung jury do Ligambi, Borgesi and Licata all get off scott-free? Can they go home?
Licata should be free to go where ever he wants, it sounds like he beat all the charges.
The feds could refile on Borgesi and Ligambi on the charges that weren't decided, but i would think their lawyers should be able to get them released on bail now.
Damion may not flip if all he's facing is 10 years. He's a relatively young guy. He'll get out when he's fifty with still plenty of time left to enjoy.
I think his brother said he was facing twenty, but I'm not sure about that.
And he'll be at the high end of the sentencing guidelines because he's a twice convicted dope peddler.
I have to think that staino will appeal - he has no arrests and has been under house arrest - they could show some leniency. Feel bad for Moussie and Dame - they got hit the hardest but have to think they will appeal also.
Of course they'll appeal. Doesn't mean they'll win.
Damion may not flip if all he's facing is 10 years. He's a relatively young guy. He'll get out when he's fifty with still plenty of time left to enjoy.
I think his brother said he was facing twenty, but I'm not sure about that.
And he'll be at the high end of the sentencing guidelines because he's a twice convicted dope peddler.
With his 2 prior felony drug dealing convictions it very well could be 20 years. Anywhere from 10 to 20 i would guess with his rap sheet.
It's big for Ligambi anyway. He probably will get smacked with heavier charges when someone flips but for now he's free. Borgesi and Scoops should be fine because they had nothing to do with the Gongs and Cassanto hits. More than likely anyway
Damion may not flip if all he's facing is 10 years. He's a relatively young guy. He'll get out when he's fifty with still plenty of time left to enjoy.
I think his brother said he was facing twenty, but I'm not sure about that.
And he'll be at the high end of the sentencing guidelines because he's a twice convicted dope peddler.
With his 2 prior felony drug dealing convictions it very well could be 20 years. Anywhere from 10 to 20 i guess with his rap sheet.
Yeah, he's fucked. No matter how you cut it, he's going to be giving up a big portion of his life to prison.
He's what, around 40? No matter what happens, he's missing out on the most important years of his kids' lives. And that comes with a LOT of guilt. Unless of course he flips. But honestly, if they already have Nicodemo on Team America, what would they need him for?
And I'm going to hold you to your answer, Buddy. Because those charges ARE coming. These are people looking at too much time right now not to flip. Tick tock. Tick tock.
Alright pizzaboy... we're about to see what kind of recruiting mettle South Philly still has. 2 relatively young guys facing their 40's and 50's in the can. We will see but I think the smart money's on the witness stand.
Yeah you guys are right,Dame saying he wanted a warm coat to wear home,he may need a walker by the time he gets out.Mousie had that arrogance oozing from him.Him and his martini glasses,I bet the feds loved that.uncle Joe and the others don't neccessarily walk now do they?I would think the government would keep trying to get them.Not a thing is going to happen to Bent Finger because if it does they will know who did it.I don't think Borgesi or Ligambi want to go through this again.Although Borgesi will probably fuck-up somewhere down the line.He's not going back to a 9-5 job.I thought for sure Staino would have got nailed.
Yeah you guys are right,Dame saying he wanted a warm coat to wear home,he may need a walker by the time he gets out.Mousie had that arrogance oozing from him.Him and his martini glasses,I bet the feds loved that.uncle Joe and the others don't neccessarily walk now do they?I would think the government would keep trying to get them.Not a thing is going to happen to Bent Finger because if it does they will know who did it.I don't think Borgesi or Ligambi want to go through this again.Although Borgesi will probably fuck-up somewhere down the line.He's not going back to a 9-5 job.I thought for sure Staino would have got nailed.
I'm starting to think you are Lou from the way you defend him and talk about members of the Family
Staino is facing time for the two loansharking verdicts .. read somewhere that it could be 5 years ... Not sure how the house arrest time will affect that. Licata could be free already as we write this heading home to Newark.
Staino is facing time for the two loansharking verdicts .. read somewhere that it could be 5 years ... Not sure how the house arrest time will affect that. Licata could be free already as we write this heading home to Newark.
I just saw staino on the news with pagano his attorney goes like he can't answer any questions till after sentencing
Edit Reason: I needed a citation that the comment above is a fact that was aired on Channel 6 News via video footage. 2/5/2013 5 o'clock news.
What are you mad dickhead because you acted like a fool last week,say what you want but your credability on here is ZERO,you took some time off nobody forgets your still a you know what,they ripped you apart in the shout box,so you can make up what you want,say what you want,I'm not going to even defend myself that statement was so stupid.
What are you mad dickhead because you acted like a fool last week,say what you want but your credability on here is ZERO,you took some time off nobody forgets your still a you know what,they ripped you apart in the shout box,so you can make up what you want,say what you want,I'm not going to even defend myself that statement was so stupid.
I didn't respond to anything because you took a joke way outta hand ALOT of posters make or have made Derogatory comments that they know aren't true. If you have a problem with me then PM me. Anything else PM Me.
What are you mad dickhead because you acted like a fool last week,say what you want but your credability on here is ZERO,you took some time off nobody forgets your still a you know what,they ripped you apart in the shout box,so you can make up what you want,say what you want,I'm not going to even defend myself that statement was so stupid.
I didn't respond to anything because you took a joke way outta hand ALOT of posters make or have made Derogatory comments that they know aren't true. If you have a problem with me then PM me. Anything else PM Me.
what a surprise, ruining another thread with snide comments...i bet youre a lonely man and a POOR BASTARD
ligambi lawyer working the bail revoke proceeding tomorrow morning - my guess would be he Borgesi and Licata are free then - scoops may already be out...staino tbd
No I'm not p-ming anybody,I have never had a problem here,I'm an adult.Do you think I am going to waste my time,I'd rather watch old commercials.I have no problems with any defendants in this case,I react to what I see or hear and make an opinion.These guys have good qualities and some questinable ones like most people do.Moving on.
ligambi lawyer working the bail revoke proceeding tomorrow morning - my guess would be he Borgesi and Licata are free then - scoops may already be out...staino tbd
Scoops is a free man, he beat the only charge against him.
"One defendant, Joseph "Scoops" Licata, was acquitted of the only charge against him and was to be freed immediately."
Your tax money at work. I love the fact that government is charging these guys with chicken shit stuff they regularly commit at about hundreds times the scale (gambling, extortion).
Does anyone know who these guys are? They were photographed outside of the Philadelphia courthouse during the recent trial...
I think the guy on the left may be Anthony Borgesi but i'm not positive. Not sure who the other guy is. Maybe someone here from south philly might know for sure and could id them. But the guy on the left looks like Tony Borgesi to me.
Interesting that the two lower level guys, Damion and Battaglini were the ones convicted of racketeering conspiracy as well as Mousie. Ligambi is not out of the woods yet, he was the highest ranking guy on trial and he beat some of the charges but the jury deadlocked on the other ones. If I was him, I would be counting the days till a new indictment comes out including those deadlocked charges and maybe even a few murder charges thrown in as icing on the cake.
Jurors had to consider 61 counts in the conspiracy case. The verdicts were: not guilty on 45 counts and guilty on 5 counts. They were hung on the remaining 11 counts, including the most serious RICO conspiracy charge against Ligambi.
A major victory for some of the defense, but a major defeat to some of the others. The key here is that they nabbed Canalichio who is the center puzzle piece in getting all of these guys re-indicted.
I'm wondering why a guy like Canalichio, who everyone knows can tie a bow on the last 15 years, was reduced to a court appointed lawyer? Obviously, having a guy like Eddie Jacobs has paid dividends for these guys. Why didnt Ligambi and co. pay to provide him with some proven counsel? Reeks of greed and stupidity to me.
Was by the courthouse on Saturday - guy on left was walking out with Ligambis brother - doesn't help much but yes he's on the taller side and was wearing a Joe Hand boxing jacket which is a local gym in Philly - he may be a Borgesi but not sure. Definately south Philly so probably connected
ligambi lawyer working the bail revoke proceeding tomorrow morning - my guess would be he Borgesi and Licata are free then - scoops may already be out...staino tbd
Scoops is a free man, he beat the only charge against him.
"One defendant, Joseph "Scoops" Licata, was acquitted of the only charge against him and was to be freed immediately."
Thats a big one. I bet Bent Finger won't be sleeping too well tonight.
Isn't he facing prison time now since his testimony didn't lead to Borgesi's or Ligambi's conviction?
I'm really not sure how that works, but i think as long as they didn't catch him in a lie they'll have to stick to whatever deal they made with Bent Finger Lou.
I know it's not the smartest move but bent finger may be packing u haul. Borgesi is one of the most ruthless and he won't get caught up in any retrials. True gangster - did his time and stood up. Question is will he go for vengeance.
Yea. Those deadlocked charges really did a number lol. IMO if Fazzini wouldnt have copped a plea before the trial and went on the trial with these guys, I feel that Scoops would have been found guilty then since more direct evidence linking him to charges related to Fazzini would have been presented.
Wouldnt be surprised if the guys who walked now are re-indicted within the next two yrs.
ligambi lawyer working the bail revoke proceeding tomorrow morning - my guess would be he Borgesi and Licata are free then - scoops may already be out...staino tbd
Scoops is a free man, he beat the only charge against him.
"One defendant, Joseph "Scoops" Licata, was acquitted of the only charge against him and was to be freed immediately."
Why isnt Borgesi released? this whole trial has confused me
It was a hung jury on his racketeering charge. Borgesi wasn't found not guilty, they can still refile the case. So i think they have to either recharge him again within a certain time period or release him. Even if they do refile the case i think he has a good shot on getting bail set. Same thing with Ligambi.
I agree Dap.They will without a doubt be re-indicted with some new charges.If the FBI wants a conviction they usually get it. They know these guys have been locked up for two years (Some of them longer) and haven't been earning. I think the guys who walked will jump right back in the game because they need the cash and its the only life they know. Being locked up for two years and paying for their lawyers has to hurt their pockets.the Feds are going to re-indict as soon as they can add some new charges along with the old ones. If Nicodemo or Damion Flip, Ligambi is fucked. I think either way the clock is already ticking on Ligambi getting re-indicted.
PHILADELPHIA - Reputed Philadelphia mob boss Joseph "Uncle Joe" Ligambi will seek bail after a jury deadlocked Tuesday on a racketeering charge against him, and deadlocked or acquitted him of all eight lesser counts in a gambling and loansharking case.
it will take time to reindict ren with a Nicodemo flip - i think dame might be screwed with is priors and would bet that Nicodemo would be a better witness for Feds. Uncle Joe is becoming Teflonish as a low key boss not hurting anyone or talking trash during the trials - good lawyers etc - will be hard to bring him Down with his old age. Gonna be interesting to see how things line back up on the street - wonder if Borgesi goes back to south jersey and Philly
i think dame might be screwed with is priors and would bet that Nicodemo would be a better witness for Feds.
Thats a toss up, Damion has those previous drug priors. But Nicodemo just killed a guy in South Philly and was promptly arrested. That potentially could make him a witness with bigger baggage IMO, but that depends on what would Nicodemo have to say that could potentially implicate Damion in other murder(s).
I agree Dap.They will without a doubt be re-indicted with some new charges.If the FBI wants a conviction they usually get it. They know these guys have been locked up for two years (Some of them longer) and haven't been earning. I think the guys who walked will jump right back in the game because they need the cash and its the only life they know. Being locked up for two years and paying for their lawyers has to hurt their pockets.the Feds are going to re-indict as soon as they can add some new charges along with the old ones. If Nicodemo or Damion Flip, Ligambi is fucked. I think either way the clock is already ticking on Ligambi getting re-indicted.
Yeah Uncle Joe does good in Febuary,in 97 he won that overturned murder charge and was out 2 weeks later in early March.The fact that he didn't talk on the tapes is that what saved him this time.Everybody mentioned in their collections where the money was going.I guess the extortion charge was buying those poker machines at a reduced price,but I guess the jury looks at it like they sold it fair and sguare.I thought he would beat the no-show job,because just that 1 contract alone was enough to prove he was somewhat of an employee.
You really this trial was really worth all this time and money Ivy?
Ideally, it would be nice to have murder charges but A) nowhere was it ever written that murder charges are needed for a RICO case and B) the government obviously held off as long as it could before finally indicting them. People have to remember these guys do more than just make book or distribute video poker machines. They're killers, extortionists, and drug dealers as well. Anyone who is familiar with their history, both individually and collectively, realizes this.
Nothing is wrong gambling, loans, and poker machines which is what this trial was about. The only reason it's illegal is because governments not making money off it. I'm not saying their angels, but theirs no violence in this case.
Nothing is wrong gambling, loans, and poker machines which is what this trial was about. The only reason it's illegal is because governments not making money off it. I'm not saying their angels, but theirs no violence in this case.
You just said it - those activities are illegal. Until the laws are changed, they're breaking the law. And the gambling and loansharking, which you think is so harmless, is the day to day life blood that keeps these guys going. That's not just a cliche. It's a fact. It's organized crime-backed gambling. You're not looking at this in a RICO context, which you should be doing.
But aside from the government saying it's wrong, do you think betting on a sporting event with your own money is wrong? Or giving out loans where they are fully aware of the interest rates?
But aside from the government saying it's wrong, do you think betting on a sporting event with your own money is wrong? Or giving out loans where they are fully aware of the interest rates?
I think gambling is harmful to society, whether run by the mob or the government. If it were up to me, all gambling would be banned. And, yes, loansharking certainly is wrong. When it comes to the mob, it's symbiotic with illegal gambling and it can lead to violence when the time comes to collect. Of course, I have the same feelings about predatory lending by banks or credit card companies as well, even if they won't break your kneecaps.
Dont forget who ur arguing with here... Ivy is more likely than not taking the moral high ground here. Where gambling and usury are immoral, also is breaking the law.
I guess usury and gambling are both immoral from a religious stand point. Personally, i have no qualms about gambling or promoting gambling. Its immoral, yes, but i dont feel its one of those things Saint Petes gonna hold against me. Personally id like for the gov to decriminalize bookmaking. Not legalize it mind you! Keep it illegal. The state is to inept to make a budget id like to see them handicap fucking basketball teasers. Go after any OC/Terrorist affiliated book and leave the rest alone..
As far as South Philly goes.. They could have run every video poker machine in the city, it doesnt justify spending anymore than the money needed to pay the men who seized the machines.
The mob almost never killed someone for owing money. Why would they when you just would get no money at all? I'm sure almost everyone gambles in their life. I don't see anything wrong with using your own money to bet.
The mob almost never killed someone for owing money. Why would they when you just would get no money at all? I'm sure almost everyone gambles in their life. I don't see anything wrong with using your own money to bet.
They almost never get killed because a dead guy can't pay up. But people still get beaten up.
Everytime I hear that cleche''why do they waste money going after these guys when they should be going after the real criminals ''.Did you ever watch that show ''Gangland''.In every city in America they go after these guys full force,but there is always someone waiting to take their place.Same with the ''Border Wars''.On A and E TV I watch these shows extreme smuggling and they arrest these guys left and right.They showed a holding area where they were storing drugs they seized just for that day.It was a pile as tall as a skyscraper and a city block long.Do you think that all law enforcement in the country just go after the Philly guys.Please.
Thats a big one. I bet Bent Finger won't be sleeping too well tonight.
Isn't he facing prison time now since his testimony didn't lead to Borgesi's or Ligambi's conviction?
I'm really not sure how that works, but i think as long as they didn't catch him in a lie they'll have to stick to whatever deal they made with Bent Finger Lou.
The prosecutor will still recommend a lenient sentence, but it is the judge's decision how long he'll serve. They usually base the sentence on how well their information/testimony was.
Jury acquits or deadlocks on all counts vs. alleged don
WILLIAM BENDER, Daily News Staff Writer February 6, 2013,
Edwin Jacobs Jr. (left), lawyer for reputed mob boss Joseph Ligambi, speaks with Ligambi's brother Philip and the mother of former consigliere George Borgesi after the verdicts were read Tuesday.
MAYBE "Uncle Joe" was right.
On the first day of his racketeering trial in mid-October, Joseph Ligambi, the 73-year-old reputed boss of the Philadelphia mob, offered a six-word analysis of the government's case. "Eighty percent of that was bull----," Ligambi wisecracked to a relative seated behind him, after a prosecutor delivered his opening statement.
On Tuesday - 16 weeks later - the jury foreman informed a packed courtroom that jurors agreed: About 80 percent, give or take, was, in fact, bull----.
In what Ligambi's attorney, Edwin Jacobs Jr., described as a "stunning defeat" for the federal government, the jury not only failed to convict Ligambi, but delivered a head-scratching mixed verdict that will likely lead to the release of Ligambi's nephew, former consigliere George Borgesi, who's been imprisoned since 2000.
The jury - which deliberated for 21 days, including on Super Bowl Sunday - acquitted Joseph "Scoops" Licata and found Ligambi and Borgesi not guilty on some counts and remained deadlocked on others. Reputed underboss Joseph "Mousie" Massimino, soldier Damion Canalichio and mob associate Gary Battaglini were convicted of racketeering conspiracy. Anthony Staino was convicted of loan-sharking.
In all, the jury found the seven alleged mobsters guilty on five counts and not guilty on 46. U.S. District Judge Eduardo Robreno declared a mistrial on 11 counts on which the jury was deadlocked. "It's an enormous waste of precious taxpayer funds," Jacobs said of the investigation and trial. "We're not talking about terrorism here. We're not talking about schoolchildren being abducted or shot up. What we're talking about is video-poker machines that aren't hurting anybody. The only difference is they're not owned by the state. It's a lot of baloney."
Joseph "Scoops" Licata, the 71-year-old reputed North Jersey mob capo, was acquitted of the only charge against him.
Licata, the 71-year-old reputed North Jersey mob capo, had remained sanguine throughout the marathon trial.
"We're all right. We're all going to be drinking tonight," he said during a break Tuesday, glancing back at the crowd of mob supporters through eyeglasses as thick as Coke bottles. By 7 p.m., Scoops was knocking back Grey Goose at DiNardo's on Race Street.
"It was a wholesale annihilation," said Licata's attorney, Christopher Warren, who sounded as if he was already a few drinks deep. "How many times do they want to be beat? Because I'm frankly getting tired of it. They went fishing for Joe Ligambi, and the jury gave them Gary Battaglini."
The U.S. Attorney's Office had initially planned to hold a news conference after the trial. That idea was promptly nixed.
"It's a partial victory," said David Fritchey, chief of the organized-crime unit. "Obviously, we would have liked to have more, but we never criticize a verdict."
Fritchey said there could be a retrial on the hung charges - meaning that Ligambi and Borgesi are not necessarily in the clear.
The indictment, unsealed in May 2011, did not include any murders, focusing instead on nonviolent crimes, such as loan-sharking and gambling, going back to 1999. Ligambi, who took over the Philly faction of La Cosa Nostra when Joseph "Skinny Joey" Merlino went to prison, also was charged with illegally accepting health-care benefits from a Teamsters fund through a no-show job at a South Philly trash company. He was found not guilty on that count.
Defense lawyers had dismissed the case as "Mob Lite" - a desperate attempt to break up a waning organized-crime family while hundreds of people are killed in Philadelphia each year from non-mob violence. Prosecutors relied on questionable witnesses and about 15,000 secret recordings obtained through phone intercepts and body wires.
"The jury is the last bulwark against government overreaching," said Borgesi's attorney, Paul Hetznecker.
As the jury returned with a verdict, the high-security courtroom was tense. Some relatives of the defendants were hunched over, breathing heavily, or holding each other.
"He's coming home," Borgesi's brother Anthony said to their mother after the verdict was read. He draped his arm over her shoulder. George Borgesi, who was already in prison when he was indicted in this case, turned around and winked - the kind of wink you give someone after you beat a 13-year federal investigation.
Massimino, 62, who'd been taunting prosecutors throughout the trial and reminding his supporters to "keep those martini glasses chilled" for his victory party, kept the routine going as he entered the courtroom Tuesday. He passed Assistant U.S. Attorney John Han and said, "I'm feeling kind of good, Johnny Chu."
"Hey, Ange, I'll be coming to see ya'. Don't worry about it," Massimino said to Angelo Lutz, the ex-mob associate who opened the Kitchen Consigliere Cafe, in New Jersey, after doing prison time on racketeering charges.
But Massimino's mood reversed after he was found guilty of racketeering conspiracy, which carries a maximum prison term of 20 years. As supporters were trying to understand the complicated verdict and what it meant for each defendant, he turned and looked back, silently.
"Strange," said Massimino's attorney, Joseph Santaguida. "Strange verdict."
Attorney Margaret Grasso, who represented Canalichio, said that she didn't understand how the jury could convict her client of participating in a racketeering conspiracy, yet remain hung on the same count for Ligambi, the alleged boss.
"It makes no sense," she said. "I didn't see this one coming."
"He's coming home," Borgesi's brother Anthony said to their mother after the verdict was read. He draped his arm over her shoulder. George Borgesi, who was already in prison when he was indicted in this case, turned around and winked - the kind of wink you give someone after you beat a 13-year federal investigation.
They found Borgesi not guilty on 13 out of the 14 charges against him. They hung on the racketeering charge but i don't think they're going to retry him. Their boy Bent Finger Lou was a disaster on the stand. They should of prepped him alot better then they did. He blew it on the stand with all those stupid ass theatrics of his.
Sleep tight Bent Finger Lou, your old pal Georgie is coming home.
Mistrial for Ligambi in Philly mob trial, three men convicted, one acquitted
John P. Martin, Inquirer Staff Writer February 6, 2013
Joseph "Scoops" Licata (left) with his lawyer, Christopher Warren, after Licata was acquitted of the lone mob conspiracy charge against him and freed.
A federal judge declared a mistrial Tuesday in the trial of reputed Philadelphia mob boss Joseph Ligambi after jurors acquitted him on five counts but said they were hopelessly deadlocked on four others, including the key charge of racketeering conspiracy.
Three codefendants, including alleged underboss Joseph "Mousie" Massimino, were convicted on the conspiracy charge and face years in prison.
But jurors found them and the others not guilty of 45 counts of bookmaking, extortion, loan-sharking, and other crimes.
One defendant, Joseph "Scoops" Licata, was acquitted of the lone charge against him and freed.
The verdicts came on the 21st day of deliberations and after a trial showcasing what prosecutors contended was the latest generation of La Cosa Nostra to run local gambling, extortion, and crime rackets, led by the understated 73-year-old boss known as "Uncle Joe."
Ligambi's lawyer hailed the verdicts as "a victory" and repudiation of a case that FBI agents built over more than a decade.
"It's a failure for the government," said Edwin Jacobs Jr. "It was an enormous waste of precious taxpayer funds."
Prosecutors noted that they won major convictions against three of seven defendants and said they would consider retrying 11 charges jurors could not resolve, including the allegation that all conspired as members of a criminal enterprise - the mob.
"It was an important case, and it needed to be brought," said Assistant U.S. Attorney David Fritchey, who heads the office's organized crime unit.
But the results were clearly mixed, and in some corners as confusing as some of the 42 notes jurors had sent to U.S. District Judge Eduardo Robreno since they began weighing the evidence Jan. 8.
For the second time in four days, the anonymous panel of eight men and four women reported it was at an impasse Tuesday. This note was more forceful than the first on Saturday, declaring the jurors had verdicts on some counts but not all, and were "of unanimous opinion that no future headway can be made to resolve these charges."
Robreno gave them the option of delivering a partial verdict or continuing to deliberate on all the charges. At first they chose to keep talking, then changed course barely 30 minutes later.
About 100 prosecutors, agents, reporters, and supporters of the defendants crammed into Robreno's 15th-floor courtroom for the verdict just after 3:30 p.m., with others crowding outside. As the jury foreman began reading decisions in the 61 charges, relatives of Ligambi and the others gasped or cried, trying to untangle what the verdicts meant.
Authorities argued that Ligambi and his cohorts might not have racked up a body count like their predecessors, but that they used threats of violence to maintain the same grip over gambling, loan-sharking, and crime rackets.
Ligambi, they said, strong-armed control of the local video-poker market, and stole money and benefits through a no-show job for a local waste disposal company. And they said the boss got a cut of the proceeds in illegal sports betting.
But jurors rejected five of the underlying crimes charged against Ligambi and declared themselves undecided on four others, including the RICO (Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act) charge that could have effectively sent him to prison for life.
They also deadlocked on the conspiracy charge against Ligambi's 49-year-old nephew, reputed captain George "Georgie" Borgesi, and cleared Borgesi of 13 other counts related to loan sharking and extortion of debtors.
Borgesi's lawyer said the verdicts were vindication and proof that testimony of a star prosecution witness, turncoat Louis "Bent Finger Lou" Monacello, fell flat.
"The jury rejected his testimony," Paul Hetznecker said. "They did not believe it."
Hetznecker and Jacobs asked the judge to immediately release their clients on bail, arguing that the jury had rejected the claims prosecutors used to hold Borgesi and Ligambi without bail since May 2011. Robreno said he would consider the request during a hearing Wednesday morning.
Massimino, 62; reputed mob soldier Damion "Dame" Canalichio, 44; and alleged associate Gary Battaglini, 51, were convicted of the larger mob conspiracy, but not any charges related to specific extortion or loan-sharking crimes, all built on testimony and secret recordings from informants, debtors, and turncoats.
"It struck me as illogical," Lawrence O'Connor, lawyer for Battaglini, said after the verdict. "We're obviously disappointed."
Margaret Grasso, Canalichio's attorney, said the jury "got it right on the bookmaking and video poker machines. I think they were confused on the RICO."
Like Massimino, both men have criminal records and could face years in prison. Robreno scheduled their sentencings for May 21.
The only other guilty verdicts were returned in two counts against alleged captain Anthony "Ant" Staino, 55, in connection with a loan to an undercover FBI agent.
Staino's attorney, Gregory Pagano, said jurors may have been swayed by tapes of a bathroom conversation in which Staino told the agent, "Don't make me hurt you."
Pagano argued that Staino was obviously drunk at the time. Jurors acquitted Staino on 27 other counts, and deadlocked on the racketeering conspiracy.
"I'm surprised," Pagano said. "I would think that the RICO was all for one and one for all."
Staino and Battaglini were the only two defendants to be free on bail during the trial. Assistant U.S. Attorney John S. Han asked the judge to revoke bail for both men; the judge deferred a decision until Wednesday.
The one clear victor in the case was Licata, a 71-year-old alleged captain who authorities say is part of the family's North Jersey faction.
Licata was a focus in the trial's opening days, as jurors heard a recording of a May 2010 lunch meeting he helped organize at a New Jersey restaurant for mob members from New York and Philadelphia. Licata introduced Ligambi as "acting boss" but spent most of the gathering waxing nostalgic about former friends, associates, and adventures.
Prosecutors contended that he was part of the mob conspiracy but did not charge him with any underlying crimes.
"The lack of evidence against my client was shameless," his lawyer, Christopher Warren, said after the verdict. "There was zero evidence my client was doing anything but sitting around, talking and drinking."
For the first time in nearly a year, Licata got to do the same thing again Tuesday night. About an hour after the verdict, Licata was sipping a Ketel One vodka and soda with his lawyer at DiNardo's Famous Crabs as he waited for his family to arrive from New Jersey.
"His grandchildren can't wait to see him," Warren said.
Four other codefendants pleaded guilty before the trial and three more are awaiting a separate trial. If or how the verdicts might affect those prosecutions is unclear.
Everytime I hear that cleche''why do they waste money going after these guys when they should be going after the real criminals ''.Did you ever watch that show ''Gangland''.In every city in America they go after these guys full force,but there is always someone waiting to take their place.Same with the ''Border Wars''.On A and E TV I watch these shows extreme smuggling and they arrest these guys left and right.They showed a holding area where they were storing drugs they seized just for that day.It was a pile as tall as a skyscraper and a city block long.Do you think that all law enforcement in the country just go after the Philly guys.Please.
Theres no reason a team of fbi agents should take more than a decade for 4 guilty verdicts. These shows, these investigations are short enough to be concluded in a 30 min show. Im not saying the gov should just forget about these guys, but for the amount of time and money wasted..... Did you see any stacks of bricks from this bust? Or were these guys guilty of cutting childrens heads off? Anyone who thinks a 30 min show about a cartel and a 11 year long investigation into a few old criminals have anything in common, needs their head examined.
Don't know what your talking about Skinny,my head is fine.I am just saying that these other criminal investigations are going on 7 days a week also,you act like everybody stopped what they were doing just for this investigation.Thats not the case at all.they are not letting these other organizations run free.Why do you think the prisons are overcrowded.
Just got Philadelphia Magazine Today in the mail that have a collage of the Phila Mob on there..
Could you scan and post the collage? Thanks,
35 Years Inside the Philly Mob With George Anastasia Sneak Peek: For more than 30 years, crime reporter George Anastasia covered the Philly Mob and lived to see the city's mafiosos take the hit.
Frankie the Fixer is trying to have it both ways. Which probably comes as no surprise to the people of south philadelphia who used to deal with Frankie the Fixer.
It’s last November, and the Fixer, a licensed plumber and legendary con man named Frank DiGiacomo, is on the witness stand, testifying for the prosecution in the racketeering trial of Mob boss Joseph “Uncle Joe” Ligambi and six co-defendants. The government is using DiGiacomo to back up allegations that Ligambi was the boss of the Philly Mob, and had engaged in gambling and loan-sharking. Frankie says as much, but with a smile. He’s careful to explain that Ligambi and the others, guys like co-defendants Joseph “Mousie” Massimino and Anthony Staino, are “great guys.” Fun to be around, he adds. He’s hung with them, eating, drinking and partying at bars and restaurants downtown. He loved it, he says. And the women? Madonne!
Frankie isn’t a great plumber. “The drains are still clogged,” Massimino quips during a break in the proceedings, referring to work DiGiacomo did for him at Lou’s Crab Bar, a neighborhood joint Mousie ran when he was on the streets. Whether DiGiacomo, 48, is a great witness is another question. That one, the jury will decide.
Sitting in the courtroom for this three-month-long trial, I find myself thinking about something else: the fact that it doesn’t matter whether Ligambi and the others are found guilty.
Because the glory days of the Philadelphia Cosa Nostra are over.
Defense attorneys don’t deny the existence of the Mafia. What they do argue is that the Ligambi organization wasn’t cut from the same cloth as the violent, blood-soaked crime families headed by Nicodemo “Little Nicky” Scarfo and John Stanfa.
I’d argue something else. And that is that the Philadelphia branch of the American Mafia—an institution that from the 1950s through the 1980s functioned as a shadow government, impacting politics, commerce, organized labor and the justice system—is today little more than a street gang. The days of Mob hits and omertà, of bribed judges and rigged multimillion-dollar construction contracts, of power and influence and “men of honor”—they’re history. The long-running soap opera that played out against the backdrop of Passyunk Avenue, 9th Street, the Produce Center and the Atlantic City Boardwalk has been canceled.
I’ve spent the past 30 years reporting on the Philly Mob. My career at the Inquirer was, in large part, defined by that.
As I sit listening to testimony and evidence—I now cover the proceedings for bigtrial.net, a website about major Philly trials funded by the Beasley law firm—it occurs to me that the Mob, like the newspaper business, has lost its way. The game has passed the Ligambi organization by. Today, the real players in the Philadelphia underworld are black, Asian, Russian. They carry big guns and use them. They have wads of cash and kilos of cocaine. So it really doesn’t matter what the jury decides in the Ligambi case.
I just scanned scanned it to a jpeg and posted a link below its the cover of the Philadephia Magazine for this month funny that it just came in the mail today
Dapper Don, Pizza Boy, Ivy League and the rest of you ought to be ashamed of what you write on these boards. Actively following another mans life who you dont know and taking cheap shots from behind a keyboard, kickin people when there down! Its disgraceful. How do you look yourself in the mirror? The fact is you were all wrong about the trial! Guilty across the board.....I think not my friends!!!
I have no idea what you're talking about. I never once speculated about them being "guilty across the board," but PLENTY of the Philly fan boys speculated that they'd be "not guilty across the board." That's a fact. Go back and look it all up if you want to. They were the ones who were dead wrong. Most of the long term members here picked split verdicts, myself included. Although I'm more than willing to admit that I thought that Joe and Staino would be found guilty, and that Damion would have walked. And I'm more than man enough to admit that.
And as far as your saying, "I think not my friends!!!", you really ought to try telling that to Damion's family, being that the guy is going to do up to twenty years and come out with the best years of his life behind him. Or maybe try telling that to Mousie's family, being that at his age he may die in jail now.
Welcome to the board anyway, Nicky. And I just want to add one thing: Making an objective guess about these guys being found guilty doesn't mean that's what a person is rooting for. Not in my case, anyway. I grew up around this shit all my life, and I ain't no kid. So do your homework before you call a guy out. That's all I'm saying.
John P. Martin, INQUIRER STAFF WRITER February 6, 2013
Joseph Ligambi's lawyer was expected to petition a judge as soon as today to free him on bail, a day after jurors acquitted the reputed Philadelphia mob boss of extortion and loan-sharking but deadlocked on the more serious charge of racketeering conspiracy.
A similar request for bail was pending from Ligambi's nephew, George "Georgie" Borgesi, a reputed captain and onetime consigliere in the crime family.
Passing them on the way in could be Anthony "Ant" Staino and Gary Battaglini, two of their five codefendants in the first major Philadelphia mob trial in a decade.
U.S. District Eduardo Robreno today jailed the men who had been free on bail, ruling that both were a danger to the community after guilty verdicts against them. The jurors convicted Battaglini, an alleged mob associate, of the racketeering conspiracy, and found Staino, described as high-ranking captain, guilty of two counts of loan-sharking.
Staino's lawyer, Gregory Pagano, had asked for his client to remain free until his sentencing on May 21.
Staino's convictions stemmed from a five-figure loan to an undercover FBI agent in 2004. Jurors heard tapes from a secretly recorded bathroom conversation about late payments in which Staino tells the agent, "I don't want to have to hurt you."
Pagano said the crime "was not your typical extortion," but rather a sting-like offense that followed "an all-out effort" by the FBI to get Pagano to lend the undercover money.
"It was not a crime of violence," he argued.
But Robreno disagreed. He also rejected a bid by Staino to remain free under electronic monitoring for 30 days, and ordered him led away. Staino removed his belt, kissed his wife and was led through a rear courtroom door to a holding cell.
Prosecutors made the same successful argument to jail Battaglini before his sentencing.
"Racketeering conspiracy is a crime of violence," Assistant U.S. Attorney Han told the judge. "That's exactly the scenario in this case."
Later today, Robreno will consider a bail request for Borgesi, who has been jailed for 13 years. A hearing for Ligambi was not yet planned.
After 21 days of deliberations, jurors delivered a split verdict. Convicted of the racketeering conspiracy were reputed mob underboss Joseph "Mousie" Massimino, soldier Damion "Dame" Canalichio and Battaglini. One defendant, alleged captain Joseph "Scoops" Licata, was acquitted.
The panel of eight men and four women delivered not-guilty verdicts on 44 other counts, and were hung on 11, including racketeering and other charges against Ligambi and Staino.
Prosecutors said they will review the case before deciding on a retrial.
I just scanned scanned it to a jpeg and posted a link below its the cover of the Philadephia Magazine for this month funny that it just came in the mail today
I think this will be Staino's first real taste of being locked up. He's really not a south philly guy, he grew up in Merchantville NJ and lives in the Washington Township / Sewell area in south jersey. First real pinch he's taken, but he should be ok.
Without the racketeering charge he should be out within 5 years i would think with his clean record. Sound right for a first time offender?
Dapper Don, Pizza Boy, Ivy League and the rest of you ought to be ashamed of what you write on these boards. Actively following another mans life who you dont know and taking cheap shots from behind a keyboard, kickin people when there down! Its disgraceful. How do you look yourself in the mirror? The fact is you were all wrong about the trial! Guilty across the board.....I think not my friends!!!
I have no idea what you're talking about. I never once speculated about them being "guilty across the board," but PLENTY of the Philly fan boys speculated that they'd be "not guilty across the board." That's a fact. Go back and look it all up if you want to. They were the ones who were dead wrong. Most of the long term members here picked split verdicts, myself included. Although I'm more than willing to admit that I thought that Joe and Staino would be found guilty, and that Damion would have walked. And I'm more than man enough to admit that.
And as far as your saying, "I think not my friends!!!", you really ought to try telling that to Damion's family, being that the guy is going to do up to twenty years and come out with the best years of his life behind him. Or maybe try telling that to Mousie's family, being that at his age he may die in jail now.
Welcome to the board anyway, Nicky. And I just want to add one thing: Making an objective guess about these guys being found guilty doesn't mean that's what a person is rooting for. Not in my case, anyway. I grew up around this shit all my life, and I ain't no kid. So do your homework before you call a guy out. That's all I'm saying.
i thought not guilty across board...i was wrong...i am surprised that gary and damion got convicted...said i was wrong a few pages back
Why can't ligambi just walk out and how long do the feds have to refile on him? Or is it basically they can hold borgesi and ligambi on teh RICO charges until there is a verdict?
Why can't ligambi just walk out and how long do the feds have to refile on him? Or is it basically they can hold borgesi and ligambi on teh RICO charges until there is a verdict?
Wait I'm still confused why Borgesi is presumably about to be a free man. Wasn't he locked up prior to these additional charges?!?! Or is it that his original sentence was up somewhere before Ligambi trial ended?
Borgesi was supposed to get out July 3 2012 that means he would have been eligible to go to the halfway house 6 months prior to release which would have been about Jan 3 2012.He will probably be let go this afternoon or sometime this week.
Borgesi was supposed to get out July 3 2012 that means he would have been eligible to go to the halfway house 6 months prior to release which would have been about Jan 3 2012.He will probably be let go this afternoon or sometime this week.
Even if they recharge him with the racketeering bullshit, i would think he'll at least now get bail set.
He was found not guilty on 13 out of the 14 charges and i have a feeling they're not going to retry him on that charge. Bent Lou was a disaster and the feds know it. I think George will soon be released.
dude go fuck yourself .. seriously who do you think you are saying that about my father ????? you dont know anything and yous all need to get a fucking life you have nothing better to do then make shit up on here ??
get a life,i dont mean any disrespect but you type just like another asshole on here that goes by the name jrusso lol...i might not be the best at spelling an what not but when you type the word yous you sound like an 5 year old sorry
The verdict in this one surprised me - I expected mostly guilty verdicts with perhaps a few acquittals. In any event, the government still accomplished something - these guys were off the street and spending big money with their attorneys.
It is a victory for the Philly family for sure, but if history repeats itself, as it usually does, the government will try them again on the charges that were hung, and bring in any new charges they can.
One day after defense attorneys touted their stunning defeat of the government in the trial of mob boss Joseph "Uncle Joe" Ligambi and six co-defendants, it was difficult this afternoon to find anyone in the defense camp celebrating "the victory."
But while the the numbers supported the defense claim -- the jury rejected 46 charges, hung on 11 others and delivered just five guilty verdicts -- reality told a different story.
Prior to the convoluted and still puzzling mixed-bag, partially deadlocked jury announcement Tuesday afternoon, there were two defendants free on bail and five in prison. At the end of a series of post-trial hearings this afternoon, six defendants were in jail. Four were awaiting sentencing. And three faced a potential retrial on racketeering conspiracy charges.
If that's a victory, what does defeat look like?
Judge Eduardo Robreno rejected bids for bail from three defendants at separate hearings spread over most of the day. In so doing, he revoked the bails of Antony Staino, 55, and Gary Battaglini, 51, who had been free pending trial.
Robreno also denied bail to George Borgesi, 49, Ligambi's nephew. The volatile South Philadelphia mobster was found not guilty of 13 of the 14 charges he faced at trial. But the jury hung on a racekteering conspiracy count for which he could be retried.
Borgesi, who was serving a 14-year sentence for an earlier racketeering conviction when he was indicted in May 2011 with Ligambi and a dozen others, was described by Assistant U.S. Attorney John Han as a "danger to the community" who should not be granted bail, the jury verdicts not withstanding.
Han cited Bogesi's criminal history and penchant for violence in urging Robreno to keep him behind bars.
Borgesi's lawyer, Paul Hetznecker, argued that his client deserved to be released, even under strict electronic monitoring and house arrest, contending that the jury's verdict carried great weight and was a "wholesale rejection" of the government's case and the testimony of its star witness, former Borgesi associate Louis "Bent Finger Lou" Monacello.
The spirited 30 minutes of legal wrangling ended with Robreno calling a recess and retiring to his chambers to consider the issue. It appeared the judge might be leaning toward some form of release.
As he was being led out of the courtroom in handcuffs, however, Borgesi started to berate Han for mentioning Borgesi's wife during the government argument for no-bail. Han appeared to ignore Borgesi's taunts and the mobster then called the prosecutor "a fuckin' punk."
A half hour later Robreno returned to court and denied bail. It could not be determined if the judge had learned of the verbal fracas, but the comments from Borgesi underscored the government's description of the short-tempered, high strung mob figure who, Monacello had testified, once boasted of taking part in 11 gangland hits.
Hetznecker said he was "disappointed" in the judge's ruling and would consider an appeal of the bail issue. He said the jury's verdict had clearly been a rejection of Moncaello's testimony, but that Han and the prosecution team continued to "mischaracterize" the evidence against his client.
Robreno's decision to deny Borgesi's bail request made it a clean sweep for the government.
Staino's bid to remain free was turned down first.
Staino had been found not guilty of 24 of the 29 charges he faced. But the jury found him guilty of two extortion counts and, by law, an extortion conviction created a non-bailable situation.
Battaglini was acquitted of a gambling offense, but was convicted of racketeering conspiracy. He was jailed and is awaiting sentencing along with Joseph "Mousie" Massimino, 62, and Damion Canalichio, 42, who were both convicted of racketeering conspiracy.
Ligambi has not yet filed a motion for bail reconsideration. He was found not guilty of five charges. The jury hung on four others, including racketeering conspiracy.
While the government has made no formal announcement yet, it is expected that the prosecution will move to retry Ligambi, Staino and Borgesi on the racketeering conspiracy charges on which the jury hung and on the five other charges, primarily gambling offenses, against Ligambi and Staino that resulted in deadlocks.
Twenty-four hours after the jury verdicts that were hailed by the defense, only mob capo Joseph "Scoops" Licata, 71, was a free man. Licata, who was held without bail prior to trial, was found not guilty of the only count he faced, racketeering conspiracy.
He was set free late Tuesday afternoon and apparently celebrated with his attorney at a local restaurant before heading home to North Jersey.
Throughout the trial, Massimino had joked and quipped about the "victorty party" he and the others intended to throw once they were acquitted. "Keep those martini glasses chilled," the cocky mob underboss said on several occasions.
Heis to be sentenced in May. With a lengthy criminal history that includes convictions for drug dealing and racketeering, Massimino could be looking at anywhere from 10 to 15 years in prison.
That's a long time to keep a martini glass on ice.
Dapper Don, Pizza Boy, Ivy League and the rest of you ought to be ashamed of what you write on these boards. Actively following another mans life who you dont know and taking cheap shots from behind a keyboard, kickin people when there down! Its disgraceful. How do you look yourself in the mirror? The fact is you were all wrong about the trial! Guilty across the board.....I think not my friends!!!
I have no idea what you're talking about. I never once speculated about them being "guilty across the board," but PLENTY of the Philly fan boys speculated that they'd be "not guilty across the board." That's a fact. Go back and look it all up if you want to. They were the ones who were dead wrong. Most of the long term members here picked split verdicts, myself included. Although I'm more than willing to admit that I thought that Joe and Staino would be found guilty, and that Damion would have walked. And I'm more than man enough to admit that.
And as far as your saying, "I think not my friends!!!", you really ought to try telling that to Damion's family, being that the guy is going to do up to twenty years and come out with the best years of his life behind him. Or maybe try telling that to Mousie's family, being that at his age he may die in jail now.
Welcome to the board anyway, Nicky. And I just want to add one thing: Making an objective guess about these guys being found guilty doesn't mean that's what a person is rooting for. Not in my case, anyway. I grew up around this shit all my life, and I ain't no kid. So do your homework before you call a guy out. That's all I'm saying.
What's with this guy? He comes on the board, shooting his mouth off, claims we said things we never said, and then erases his posts?
As he was being led out of the courtroom in handcuffs, however, Borgesi started to berate Han for mentioning Borgesi's wife during the government argument for no-bail. Han appeared to ignore Borgesi's taunts and the mobster then called the prosecutor "a fuckin' punk."
What a fucking moron, for being that stupid he should be locked up.
Everytime I hear that cleche''why do they waste money going after these guys when they should be going after the real criminals ''.Did you ever watch that show ''Gangland''.In every city in America they go after these guys full force,but there is always someone waiting to take their place.Same with the ''Border Wars''.On A and E TV I watch these shows extreme smuggling and they arrest these guys left and right.They showed a holding area where they were storing drugs they seized just for that day.It was a pile as tall as a skyscraper and a city block long.Do you think that all law enforcement in the country just go after the Philly guys.Please.
If people bothered to do their homework, instead of immediately bellyaching, they'd know that law enforcement goes after the drug cartels, the drug gangs, other OC groups, and everybody else. You can see the cases on the website of any DA or prosecutor in a given area. They may not make the same news as a Mafia case but they're there.
Dapper Don, Pizza Boy, Ivy League and the rest of you ought to be ashamed of what you write on these boards. Actively following another mans life who you dont know and taking cheap shots from behind a keyboard, kickin people when there down! Its disgraceful. How do you look yourself in the mirror? The fact is you were all wrong about the trial! Guilty across the board.....I think not my friends!!!
I'm pretty sure i was the only one on here who predicted guilty across the board, and i admitted I was wrong a few pages ago. If we want to get technical, there were tons of deadlocked charges in this trial that are almost guaranteed to cause a re-trial which will probably lead to conviction or plea deals but that's another story. Nobody took any cheap shots against these guys,get your facts straight before you start an account make two postings and diss longtime members on here. Try to grow a pair so you might not need to delete what you initially posted (see what I quoted above).
how is legal to keep borgesi behind bars? he is not charged with anything and hes not under indictment
He's still charged with one count of racketeering conspiracy, Cheech. He beat 13 of 14 charges, but because of that one charge he's technically still under indictment until the retrial.
Being that Borgesi was denied, I'll be shocked if they spring Ligambi, who's still facing more than one additional charge. So it looks like these guys will be in for at least another, what, six months to a year until retrial?
In the interim, if the Feds flip one of those other guys, they'll have plenty of time to add murder to the indictment.
This was a very hollow victory, if you can call it that. Except for Scoops. Good for him. Hats off to the guy for actually winning because a hung jury isn't enough when you're up against the Feds. They don't play fair (see how objective I can be? ).
I deleted my posts because I should of never posted in the first place...true power comes from self control, and for a moment i lost control. But i will respond to your baseless rants... Im not an internet guy or a fanboy as you clowns like to put it. I stumbled on this website accidentally when I came home in 2012 and it blew my mind!!! A bunch of grown men following these so-called mobsters lives like it was the NBA or NFL, you gotta be kidding me.
Dapper Don or whatever u like to call yourself in this fanasty world, you tell me to grow a set! Listen kid, your a stone cold cop, a rat, who doesnt have enough heart to reveal your identity...i'll meet you anywhere under the sun and have a nice conversation with you about respect and provide you with a life lesson. Im an eight time convicted violent felon currently on parole finishing up a ten year sentence and I lived this life you read about. It seems u got a hard on for these guys to get convicted and I guess thats your thing in life...sifting through websites and discovery documents to try to break someones balls. Im convinced you have some sort of mental illness. Why are you so fixated on other peoples lives?? I mean, you name yourself Dapper Don but yet you hate these guys with a passion. Your a mixed up kid.
Ivy League, your in the same class of cowardice as Dapper Dunce. A guy that comments about a life he never lived...a life that entails the pain and anguish of burying your friends, losing guys to life sentences, and the rest of the bullsh*t that comes with the facade of loyalty and honor. Fu*k your objective anaylsis or whatever rhetoric you wanna use to justify your posts...you have no business saying what you say and I suggest you get a new hobby like painting pictures or collecting stamps.
As for you Pizzaboy...I respect your comments because it seems that not only do you have knowledge of the life but wisdom as well...as you know wisdom cant be taught it can only be experienced and that is what this board lacks. But shame on you my friend, you should know better because you come from the old school, over 14000 posts about subject matter that should be kept quiet. Thats a no-no. I dont approve of it but but I do identify with you because its like we have a wealth of knowledge about certain things but yet we cant share it...so what good is it? Will these stories die with us? I choose to keep quiet for now. Also, Pizzaboy you tell me to go talk to Joe Mouse's family and tell em that he might die in prison? Do you know his family? Do you know his kid brother Chris? I didnt think so. I know their family well and Joe knows what comes with the territory and his family accepts that. God bless him and his family, but it is what it is. Some people do a few years and wake up and do the right thing and others never get it right and end up in a pine box or worse a life sentence.
I said what I had to say and Im done. Good luck PizzaBoy and God Bless.
As for you Pizzaboy...I respect your comments because it seems that not only do you have knowledge of the life but wisdom as well...as you know wisdom cant be taught it can only be experienced and that is what this board lacks. But shame on you my friend, you should know better because you come from the old school, over 14000 posts about subject matter that should be kept quiet. Thats a no-no. I dont approve of it but but I do identify with you because its like we have a wealth of knowledge about certain things but yet we cant share it...so what good is it? Will these stories die with us? I choose to keep quiet for now. Also, Pizzaboy you tell me to go talk to Joe Mouse's family and tell em that he might die in prison? Do you know his family? Do you know his kid brother Chris? I didnt think so. I know their family well and Joe knows what comes with the territory and his family accepts that. God bless him and his family, but it is what it is. Some people do a few years and wake up and do the right thing and others never get it right and end up in a pine box or worse a life sentence.
I said what I had to say and Im done. Good luck PizzaBoy and God Bless.
Fair enough, Nicky. I'll just respond to a couple points and keep it short. No, I don't know Joe Mouse's family. I'm a Bronx guy. 53 years old. So what do I know from Philly?
But I do know a thousand guys like him. Does that make me an expert on a family a hundred miles from where I was born and raised? Absolutely not. But it does give me a leg up on most others on these boards when it comes to most of this stuff.
Originally Posted By: Nicky26
I dont approve of it but but I do identify with you because its like we have a wealth of knowledge about certain things but yet we cant share it...so what good is it?
This sums it up well. When you sign up here (and by you I'm actually talking about myself), you try to be vague at first. But you end up seeing so much misinformation and pure bullshit posted over the years that you eventually feel that you have to set people straight on certain things. That's how it's been with me, anyway. I've never broken a confidence on this or any other board that would leave someone in a legal jam. Not once. That's how I rationalize it.
You seem like a pretty bright guy, Nicky. I hope you stay out for good this time. Best of luck.
how is legal to keep borgesi behind bars? he is not charged with anything and hes not under indictment
He's still charged with one count of racketeering conspiracy, Cheech. He beat 13 of 14 charges, but because of that one charge he's technically still under indictment until the retrial.
Being that Borgesi was denied, I'll be shocked if they spring Ligambi, who's still facing more than one additional charge. So it looks like these guys will be in for at least another, what, six months to a year until retrial?
In the interim, if the Feds flip one of those other guys, they'll have plenty of time to add murder to the indictment.
This was a very hollow victory, if you can call it that. Except for Scoops. Good for him. Hats off to the guy for actually winning because a hung jury isn't enough when you're up against the Feds. They don't play fair (see how objective I can be? ).
yeah makes sense...sucks for Borgesi, guys in the can a dime and now is stuck again off of one charge and doesnt even get bail...seems harsh but looks like the Feds have a hard on for him...poor bastard
Dapper Don or whatever u like to call yourself in this fanasty world, you tell me to grow a set! Listen kid, your a stone cold cop, a rat, who doesnt have enough heart to reveal your identity...i'll meet you anywhere under the sun and have a nice conversation with you about respect and provide you with a life lesson. Im an eight time convicted violent felon currently on parole finishing up a ten year sentence and I lived this life you read about. It seems u got a hard on for these guys to get convicted and I guess thats your thing in life...sifting through websites and discovery documents to try to break someones balls. Im convinced you have some sort of mental illness. Why are you so fixated on other peoples lives?? I mean, you name yourself Dapper Don but yet you hate these guys with a passion. Your a mixed up kid.
I shared my prediction about this trial after following it closely, listening to some of the court testimony, etc. If they do beat the charges and were really innocent, good for them. If not, and they were really guilty then they should be convicted. We all know who these guys are, the life they lead and what it entails. Not exactly the poster boys for good behavior and following the rule of law. My motto is if you do the crime and get caught, you should do the time period.
Lets be clear here, I couldnt give a flying fuck who you are or what you did, that doesnt scare me. Mental illness, rat, cop? Lol, if you ever found out who I really am and who my friends are I GUARANTEE you wouldnt be singing that same tune and would shape up immediately. Fact is the people in my daily circle exercise a level of influence you or these criminals can only wish they ever did or will.
I was born and raised in one of the most violent neighborhoods in America. Stabbings, shootings, robberies, rapes, gangbangers, mobsters you name it. I never claimed to live this lifestyle, and I would never want to. As I have stated before on here, I have lifelong friends who grew up in the mist and in this lifestyle and thus by association I have on occasion been privy to it. Nothing more, nothing less. Fact is, in my personal world associating with these kinds of characters wouldn't be the best idea.
You obviously are pissed off at me cause I was the only proponent on here who predicted a guilty across the board verdict (which was proven wrong). You say you know some of the individuals involved and it is understandable you would get upset if somebody was saying they should go to jail. I wont take it personal, if I did you would have known it by now trust me.
Personally and professionally, I am a big proponent for giving people another chance and thus wish you good luck staying on the straight and narrow.
Sounds like the typical run of the mill hot head tough guy. Some ass stain who is a inch away from doin a 20 or gettin shot for mouthin off to the wrong guy. And itll happen eventually.... Theres always these guys that think they are the biggest bad ass in the world, when hes probly some fuckin junkie degenerate who thinks hes hot shit. Fuckin moron. When ur done with dapper and pb and whoever else uv already threatened on here come look me up to, i want to learn on of those life leasons u r so adept to handing out..
whether this shitbag is serious or not makes no difference, as either way its equally sad. anybody who wants to meet up and straiten someone out over what they post on the computer needs to take a step back, load up another shot of dope, and drift back to the world of the irrelevant. people like this are one of the many reasons why i'm a firm believer in the 2nd amendment.
Dapper Don, well lets set it up then. You name the place and time and I'll be there by myself. And we'll see if your gonna "shape me up" and have me "singing a different tune". No guns or nothin like that, just man to man. Im serious as a heart attack.
But the reality of the situation is that your not from the street and your just a nice kid from a nice family who graduated from college, got a job, read a couple books about criminals and called it a day. Thats ok buddy..its ok to be from a nice family and have a nice upbringing, you dont gotta lie about how your friends "exercise a level of influence" and how your from the "most violent neighborhood in America", people from the ghetto dont talk like that...white kids from the suburbs talk like that! You cant fool me.
To tell you the truth I believe you work for law enforcement or maybe your a lawyer...or even worse a politician! I think its good that your educated,I guess I'll never agree with the premise of this whole website...I never thought in a million years they would have something like this. I do appreciate the last line you wrote: "I am a big proponent for giving people another chance and thus wish you good luck staying on the straight and narrow"....all jokes aside I swear to God you sound like my sentencing judge. But I do thank you for that.
As for your tough talk about you makin me "sing a different tune", my offer still stands, you name the place and time and I'll be there by MYSELF, you have my word.
Back on topic. i am shocked borgesi was denied bail. these jokers dont play fair
In one of the articles it said the Judge was leaning torwards letting him out on bail but then the moron cursed out the prosecutor.
Then the feds fed the judge the usual bullshit how Borgesi is a very violent guy with little self control and they're worried about the safety of the witnesses.
In other words, Bent Finger needs some time to relocate.
Borgesi is an ugly fuck too haha. He looks like he's got down syndrome. You can quote Ivy on that but guys like Borgesi are better off in jail even if this case against him was BS.
U kno I signed up because I have a lot of knowledge about the mafia and am bloodline castellano.. I'm from phila. So I kno my shit.. But since I been on here all I have read is arguing and talkin shit... Grow up or get off... It's not hard to talk shit behind the computer.. Seems to me like there a bunch of cases of small dick syndrome on here... Honestly grow a pair and shut Up... We r here to share are knowledge and to learn more... And I don't want to read your corny ass post talkin shit.. So please for the sake of us people that aren't here for a dick measuring contest just stop...
U kno I signed up because I have a lot of knowledge about the mafia and am bloodline castellano.. I'm from phila. So I kno my shit.. But since I been on here all I have read is arguing and talkin shit... Grow up or get off... It's not hard to talk shit behind the computer.. Seems to me like there a bunch of cases of small dick syndrome on here... Honestly grow a pair and shut Up... We r here to share are knowledge and to learn more... And I don't want to read your corny ass post talkin shit.. So please for the sake of us people that aren't here for a dick measuring contest just stop...
Come on man, you wanna talk about talking shit behind a computer that's exactly what you're doing. If you've got something to contribute say it but don't go off for no reason. Enlighten us if you think we are wrong about something. I'd love to hear it. But try to be more pleasant. Good luck here on the boards.
I'm nt going off for no reason when I click on a board and I have to read 2 pages of assholes talkin shit b4 I can get to what I'm lookin at it pisses me the hell off... So I have plenty of right to say what I want...
Dapper Don, well lets set it up then. You name the place and time and I'll be there by myself. And we'll see if your gonna "shape me up" and have me "singing a different tune". No guns or nothin like that, just man to man. Im serious as a heart attack.
But the reality of the situation is that your not from the street and your just a nice kid from a nice family who graduated from college, got a job, read a couple books about criminals and called it a day. Thats ok buddy..its ok to be from a nice family and have a nice upbringing, you dont gotta lie about how your friends "exercise a level of influence" and how your from the "most violent neighborhood in America", people from the ghetto dont talk like that...white kids from the suburbs talk like that! You cant fool me.
To tell you the truth I believe you work for law enforcement or maybe your a lawyer...or even worse a politician! I think its good that your educated,I guess I'll never agree with the premise of this whole website...I never thought in a million years they would have something like this. I do appreciate the last line you wrote: "I am a big proponent for giving people another chance and thus wish you good luck staying on the straight and narrow"....all jokes aside I swear to God you sound like my sentencing judge. But I do thank you for that.
As for your tough talk about you makin me "sing a different tune", my offer still stands, you name the place and time and I'll be there by MYSELF, you have my word.
Believe what you want, but what I wrote is 100% factual. Re-read it considering your response shows that you obviously misinterpreted parts of what I wrote. I specifically said if you ever found out who I and my friends were you would be singing a different tune, which is the truth. I don't work for law enforcement and am not a lawyer, but I'm in the "professional" realm. Let's just say that I am not the right person to be threatening even over the internet, cause you might be liable to regret that you did very quickly if certain people found out. Even you should be able to figure out what I am subliminally saying.
Just because a person is from the ghetto, doesn't mean they have to act that way. The key is to get oneself out of the ghetto and that mindset, cause in all honesty nobody should aspire to be a street hood. But don't mistake my level of education as a barometer of fear, I'm not in the street out of choice but am more than capable of taking care of myself. I don't need to anymore, I am white collar and with that comes certain benefits that ensure these things are just a nuisance for me.This is just an internet message board on a specific topic about the Philly LCN. No reason for me to be personally offended.
I will respond just this once out of respect for this thread and the administration.
Like I said before, best of luck staying on the straight and narrow.
George Anastasia radio interview with a couple of the guys from WMMR.
"Big Trial reporter George Anastasia chats with WMMR's Preston and Steve about the Ligambi verdict, and his 35 years of stories covering the Philadelphia mob."
Quick couple questions.. I know Mousie has been around for a while (albeit in the can for most stretches) but when was he made? Who was he around as a young buck. Was he around during the Bruno era? Dude seems like he has balls and don't give a flying fck. Had a lot of funny quips over the trial.
I was wondering the same thing... What crew was he in during the scarfo days?? I kno he wasent made during stanfa reign was he??? Mayb Made under Joey I'm Assuming?? Mayb u guys can shed some light...
I'm glad a lot of people talked this out,because I was not enjoying this site anymore.You say 1 negative thing and your jumped on by some.I want to clarify something,the other day I said nothing is going to happen to ''Bent Finger Lou'' and right away a certain poster was like you must be him or something stupid.My reasoning is wouldn't it be kind of obvious who was behind it.Why would anyone want that much heat? Do I agree with what Monacello did.absolutley not,but its so obvious how bad the feds want these guys,why make it easier for them.Attitude goes a long way and maybe Borgesi would be out now if he held back a little more.I remember years ago when Joseph Ciancaglini was convicted in 1982 for something and the feds said he would have been a great boss,they really respected him.When Johnny Chang got found guilty with that guy[can't think of his name] shaking down drug dealers in the northeast back in 1989 after the verdict he went up and shook the prosecutors hand and the state cops and other people part of the prosecution.Like he said ''hey you did your job''.Do you think if that ended in some kind of mistrial they would have gone back after him?Probably not,the mutual respect was there,sometimes that temper can really hurt you.You don't have to kiss ass ,but just be a little smarter.
Bent fingure is a straight lier/ mob wannaB... He acted like he ran shit to everyone and bragged.. and the fact the government put there faith in him is even more pettiful... At least with people like Sammy the bull and Phil leonetti it was actually sincere... But karma is a bitch and bent fingure will have repercussions one day... He is too open and still thinks he is the man...
I now firmly believe that the guy that Nicodemo whacked (Gino DiPietro) will turn out to have been a CI, and that's why the Government is so gung-ho right now. They don't like losing informants. I also believe that the prosecutors and agents informed the Judge of this in chambers, and that's the main reason that bail was denied. Whether that's moral or even legal is beside the point because they do shit like that all the time.
And that's why Borgesi is nuts if he goes after this Bent-Dick guy. After a guy testifies the damage is already done. No sense in pissing off the Government. This ain't Sicily (or even Montreal). If you kill a witness in the United States today, there's a fifty-fifty chance you'll get nailed for it. And a hundred percent guarantee that the Feds will never leave you alone on your other crimes.
And I'm not saying that the Feds play fair, or that they don't trample the constitution when it suits them (The Patriot Act, anyone?). I'm just saying that for all of the above reasons, Italian-American organized crime is a terrible career choice today. It's all over but the shouting.
Ok this isnt directed at just 22... No offense but u guys need to be a little more thick skinned. Especially on the internet. Theres no point in getting upset if someone disagrees with u. Its not the end of the world as we know it and threatening someone online isnt going to change my mind. I still think either Damion or Nicodemo will flip if not both. Then theese guys will be indicted again and we will see a murder trial within 3 years. If they both stand up? Good for them. What did they protect? A couple of old bookies who wont give their familys shit when they are in need. Ur showing loyalty (not to ur family), but to a group of old men who send you off to do there errands and give u nothin for it. But in my opinion, one will rat, the other will die in prison. Im thinking objectively, bc i dont know these guys and i could care less. If someone knows them and hopes they all get off, fine. No skin off my ass, u guys already know how i feel about this, i dont even think gambling should be a crime. But im not gonna lose any sleep if these guys go to prison. I dont see how making a prediction, like in dappers case, warrants threats and name calling. Dap stayed classy and i salute him for it. Just ignore a guy if hes hell bent on starting shit. Most ppl dont want to see that shit on these boards. Me? I dont giv a shit really, i consider it comedic relief.. Hell im even guilty of fanning the flames, like with the marine guy who wanted to meet everyone on skunk st or wherever the fuck... I miss that sensitive bastard... No offense to u guys but some of u really shouldnt be so sensitive.. This is the internet, it doesnt take elephant balls to say ur 6'3 290lbs and a ten time felon who would kick ur ass. Im just as guilty of being rude to ppl who say rude shit to me, but im not complaning about the forums either...Dont take it as a personal insult if someone jokes around here either. Look at DN, he made a joke, and everytime he posts something ppl try to call him out. Demanding he be banned. Christ it was a joke. So he fooled u for 5 min and had a few laughs at ur expense. So what? U guys act like he ruined ur familys honor or something. He made a joke, in some of ur eyes, in poor taste. Only bc u were the ones that fell for it. Its not that big of a deal. If some one posted and article saying "Tino Fuirima still alive" id freak out, going around deleting any post i made with the letter T in it. Not really, but u guys would be laughing just the same if the joke wasnt on u is my point. The boards here are for discussion and if ppl are rude or out of line ignore them... That being said, i enjoy reading the (two) philly threads haha and appreciate u guyses input, mostly bc outside of this trial i know nothing about philly lcn. U guys are all gentlemen in my book, and i hope u guys keep posting about philly bc i enjoy learning about this kinda thing. Stay warm my freinds.
I me your right this isent Sicily... But u know after awile bent fingure could let his guard down and get comfortable... He isent in witness protection... From what I hear he is out and about and still cocky... And the government is even worse because they will use and abuse u and throw u out to the wolves... And if something happens which I think it will then it will be who screwed up someOne will loose a job but overall they don't give 2 shits about him... But u could be right.. But This is phila. And u never kno with these guys... .
I understand why a lot of you are saying borgesi is an idiot for cursing at the prosecutor. what i am wondering is did he call.him a punk before he was denied bail or after? Imagine doing 14 years and then instead of being released yoy get held without bail to face a new trial. then you beat 13 or 14 charges and they deadlock on 1 charge and you are still held without bail. jesus thats gotta be aggravating. id probably lose my cool too
I understand why a lot of you are saying borgesi is an idiot for cursing at the prosecutor. what i am wondering is did he call.him a punk before he was denied bail or after?
It's been reported that he said it BEFORE he was denied bail. Not very patient of him, to say the very least.
Reminds me of when John Gotti called the prosecutor Little Lord Fauntleroy. Yeah, things ended well for John .
Skinny I have gone round and round on sports blogs to where I was the enemy to most.Trust me that's nothing new and I can DEFINETLEY take care of myself.I'm older and I have been around,but I just get f...... sick of it when you say this or that and then some guy comes out of the woodwork and claims to be in the know and then the bullshit starts.Also eveybody is different and your not going to sway my mind about that so called ''joke'' thing.I think that was flat out immature and ridiculous to do that,and tomorrow I'll think like that and the next day.Do you think I'm going to believe anything that person says now.Come on man,their reading the verdict now this guy is guilty ,that guy is guilty,that's not funny a little bit.Your right about ignoring because now my ignore button is on.I'm done with this subject now and if I wanted to I could be just as nasty as most,I just choose not to.
Back to subject Pizzaboy I see where you said what I said about Bent Finger.You think the heat is on these guys now it would never stop if he turned up missing.I asked this before and either nobody knew or didn't see it,but they said that Borgesi called Han a ''fuckin punk''because he[Han] said something about Borgesi's wife in his spiel to the judge about denying bail.Does anybody know what that was?
Pizza, not sure if I said it on this site or RD but word on the street is that Gino has been a CI since his prison stint and that the hit was sanctioned by someone, Joey or Joe or whoever....that I don't know. Supposedly Nicodemo was not the shooter. From what I hear he has lost 15 lbs. My buddy works for same company as Nicodemo did and works with his Uncle. His Uncle went to see him. Suposedly they are going to charge him with 3rd degree murder. It was still stupid for keeping everything in his car but for the cops to catch him as he was going into his house is imppossible if he drove straight home. He most likely had the shooter jump in his car, drop him off and then went back to his house. Nicodemo lives very close to where the shootig took place.
Pizza, not sure if I said it on this site or RD but word on the street is that Gino has been a CI since his prison stint and that the hit was sanctioned by someone, Joey or Joe or whoever....that I don't know. Supposedly Nicodemo was not the shooter. From what I hear he has lost 15 lbs. My buddy works for same company as Nicodemo did and works with his Uncle. His Uncle went to see him. Suposedly they are going to charge him with 3rd degree murder. It was still stupid for keeping everything in his car but for the cops to catch him as he was going into his house is imppossible if he drove straight home. He most likely had the shooter jump in his car, drop him off and then went back to his house. Nicodemo lives very close to where the shootig took place.
I'm not a lawyer but even if Nicodemo was only the driver for the hit it's still first degree murder.
If it was a preplanned murder against a police informant it doesn't matter if he was only the driver as far as i know. Anybody involved in the plot is as guilty as the shooter himself, at least thats what i believe to be true.
This is just what his Uncle is telling people. I don't know for sure but they are saying at this point with the evidence they have they are going to charge him with 3rd degree murder. This could change. I think he goes to court at the end of this month.
I remember years ago during that home invasion in Staten Island when Chris Paciello never even went in the house but was still charged just like the guys that did the shooting.
How do we know how violent borgesi is? Is it in wiretaps?
I think it was Bent Finger Lou's testimony that was used as justification.
I agree with you Ted and think thats most likely the reason he was denied. And then cursing out the prosecutor just sealed his fate.
Didn't Bent Finger also get him on tape bragging about how he beat the shit out of Angelo Lutz and kept beating him even after he was knocked out cold? Or was that a different tape? I forget.
Pizza, not sure if I said it on this site or RD but word on the street is that Gino has been a CI since his prison stint and that the hit was sanctioned by someone, Joey or Joe or whoever....that I don't know. Supposedly Nicodemo was not the shooter. From what I hear he has lost 15 lbs. My buddy works for same company as Nicodemo did and works with his Uncle. His Uncle went to see him. Suposedly they are going to charge him with 3rd degree murder. It was still stupid for keeping everything in his car but for the cops to catch him as he was going into his house is imppossible if he drove straight home. He most likely had the shooter jump in his car, drop him off and then went back to his house. Nicodemo lives very close to where the shootig took place.
I'm not a lawyer but even if Nicodemo was only the driver for the hit it's still first degree murder.
If it was a preplanned murder against a police informant it doesn't matter if he was only the driver as far as i know. Anybody involved in the plot is as guilty as the shooter himself, at least thats what i believe to be true.
Any lawyers here? Opinions?
No lawyer but I'll throw my hat into the ring and give you my two cents anyway.
If I was in his shoes I'd play it like I didn't know shit about no hit. That's Nicodemo's defense right there hanging by a needle's thread. And he has to cling to this as if his life depends on it cos he ain't got shit else to say by the looks of it. Soon as he gives up any inkling he knew what was about to go down he is wrapped up in a murder one rap so tight he may as well show up in a ribbon bow so gift wrapped would he he be for the slam dunk.
The invisible trigger guy (whoever the fuck he be)was as far as the defence knew just paying the guy a friendly visit.
They have the gun or guns whatever, they may have prints the fuck do I know but what no-one can prove for 100% is that this Nicodemo fella knew this was gonna go down before he took his friend for a spin to pay this guy a visit.
So he has deniability to a certain degree unless he's got eyeballs on him that place him in a picture frame as the guy who squeezed the trigger. How this plays in court is not exactly a smooth denfense cos it's gonna be tough to convince a jury he never knew shit about the hit going down.
Put it this way it wouldn't be the shock of the century if they were to do plea him down to third degree way I see it.
Everybody has theories as to why Nicodemo so brazenley was invoved in this during prime-time hours.I honestley believe that he thought he was untouchable.Once the public knew what went down you would have thought[or at least he did] that all bystanders and witness's would mind their own business.The old I didn't see anything routine.I'm wondering whether these eye witness's are still going to go through with their statements.Not being a lawyer I don't know how that works either if the witness's suddenly had a memory lapse.But then again it was because of the witness's they were able to track the vehicle down to Nicodemo.So if they were to recant I don't know how that would work.If it does stay the way it is there's proof the mob has lost its intimadating factor.
I'm just thinking out loud here, but i don't see them offering Nicodemo no third degree murder plea. They're trying to roll him and they know he isn't go to roll over a 3rd degree murder beef.
The only way i see him avoiding a first degree homicide rap is if he can say it was just a spur of the moment thing. Like an argument that just got out of hand. But if the law can prove in anyway that it was a planned hit they'll never give him a 3rd degree offer. Unless they really don't have shit on him then i guess it's possible just to keep him off the street for a few years, but honestly i don't see that happening.
They're probably going to tighten the screws on Nicodemo as hard as they can get away with it and hope he cracks and flips.
I'm just thinking out loud here, but i don't see them offering Nicodemo no third degree murder plea. They're trying to roll him and they know he isn't go to roll over a 3rd degree murder beef.
Agreed, Gianni. Not in a million years. If it helps get his Uncle get to sleep at night, then I understand why he's telling that to people (for his family's sake). But it's wishful thinking.
They have the guy dead to rights. Even if the witnesses recant, the cops have the proverbial "smoking gun." The only way that goes away is by saying the gun wasn't his. And unless he's willing to say who the gun belonged to, that argument won't hold water. So again, it all comes back to whether or not he rats.
By the way, the premeditated murder of an informant in the State of Pennsylvania carries the death penalty, if the prosecutors decide to ask for it.
What if there was no gun powder on his hands or clothing? Or anything to say he shot the gun just he had the murder weapon in his possession? How would it work then? That also kinda would prove it to be pre meditated tho unless he said it was dropped in his car n he didn't know it was gonna happen.and if there gonna go after ol cock smokin lou I think it'd be best if they we're to make him disappear honestly.don't kill him in ur car take him to the woods a quarry or whatever and get it over with.hell try to hire some1from jersey or n.y to do it if poss.and don't get more involved then need be and they could it.
I'm not sure how it works in PA but does anyone know if the cops have presented any evidence to a grand jury yet? Has Nicodemo officially been indicted on these charges? If he has i think that he's then entitled to full discovery and he'll then have a pretty good sense of his chances. But you have to get discovery to see what they really have or don't have.
I've mentioned this before in a thread but I like so many on here can't figure this out at all. Not only did they find the smoking gun but they also found a ski mask. Also, they have a mailman that put an ID on the license plate and car of Nico...I don't know if US postal workers feel the same kind of intimidation or not. This hit took place probably 3/4 of a mile away from Nicodemos house (who lives 4-5 houses down from Uncle Joe). The wrinkle that is posted earlier that there is no way that cops could beat him to his house I think is pretty accurate. Depending on the path , in a car it would take no more than 90 seconds. Leaves some thought that there was some driving around maybe dropping someone off. It's too bad AN was well respected and feared and an earner in South Philly. Held a legit job as an adjuster, etc. This is a complete headscratcher unless there is something that noone knows which is possible.
I used to always see Ralph Natale "running" at Cooper River Park in Pennsauken New Jersey. My friends and I would always giggle when we saw him b/c whether winter or summer he had a very dark tan, without his shirt on, and his shorts pulled up to damn near his neck. If I knew then who he was I'd have invited him to a cup a coffee and a chat
Depending on what he thought the plans were, regardless of whehter it was preplanned murder or to go score some drugs, he could have been convicted for 1st degree murder - i.e., felony murder. Unless he got out of the car and went to the police, he at least aided and abetted and/or accomplice after-the-fact by driving away. Thus, anyone in the car can be charged with the 1st degree.
I tell everyone the reason I sat for the NY bar exam was so I could one day be a Mob lawyer - especially since many are now joining their former clients in prison.
How many mob murders have been solved over the years from eye witness testimoney,none that I can think of.I honestly believe he acted himself unless there was somebody nearby in a crash car.I think him getting idenified was the least of his worries,if someone were with him why in the world would they leave the evidence in the vehicle that was at the scene just in case there was a remote chance that somebody came forward.
That is a really interesting question - how many mob hits solved by eyewitness testimony. Im currently working on a large scale project on mob and I'll add that as one of the factors...Great call!
Depending on what he thought the plans were, regardless of whehter it was preplanned murder or to go score some drugs, he could have been convicted for 1st degree murder - i.e., felony murder. Unless he got out of the car and went to the police, he at least aided and abetted and/or accomplice after-the-fact by driving away. Thus, anyone in the car can be charged with the 1st degree.
I tell everyone the reason I sat for the NY bar exam was so I could one day be a Mob lawyer - especially since many are now joining their former clients in prison.
Whos to say the other guy didn't point the trigger at him and make him feel his life was at risk if he were not to haul ass out of there?
Could of been a hundred reasons why they payed the guy a visit and a pretty good one for allowing a guy who has just popped sombody back into your life for a few minutes until you can lose the nut.
Given that fact surely it's at least possible if not likely that he may be offered third degree? If it's just a murder rap alone then why would they offer him more than third degree for fingering the other guy? They have a slam dunk already.
For the mob stuff presumably? Well if that be the case then how much could he demand in a sit down with the Feds? The sky's the limit as they say but he ain't exactly Sammy The Bull so how much can he expect from a plea bargain if all he wants to do is finger the trigger guy?
Unless he accepts liability for a planned hit then that is all he has as a defense right? Deniability and he loses that the moment he fingers the other guy anyway cos who knows what this other guy will say when he gets the spotlight?
Hard to see how he unravels hiself but you're a lawyer I'd be interested to know what would you say to him now? Cos no offense I've had some lawyers and truth be had I'd be better on my own up there some of the crap they come out with half then time.
So I'm calling you out on this one hot shot. Show me what you got.
Oh my love! You are very right and yet so wrong. It would take me a good hour to type out a fantastic answer for you (or him if I were pretending to represent him). And I would have to read up on more of the specific details of the case. But, I will say from the outset, the feds generally only charge a case if they can win it; hence why the feds have a great conviction record. So when they lose, as they did just recently, they take it as a major blow.
I will take a little more time to reread your response and reply with a more substantive response. And I am by far not 'big shot' and I am the first to point out how corrupt lawyers are.
Finally, you may be better off representing yourself in a case, if it werent for all the procedural and evidentiary rules you will be required to know and comply with despite your lack of training. Which is why most self-rep cases fail. Now, there are, and I have personally seen, some defendants during sentencing cite the statutue number and precise language of a law and some judges have even been known to say that appeals written by prisoners on their own behalf are often better than those writtten by any attorney.
I now firmly believe that the guy that Nicodemo whacked (Gino DiPietro) will turn out to have been a CI, and that's why the Government is so gung-ho right now. They don't like losing informants. I also believe that the prosecutors and agents informed the Judge of this in chambers, and that's the main reason that bail was denied. Whether that's moral or even legal is beside the point because they do shit like that all the time.
And that's why Borgesi is nuts if he goes after this Bent-Dick guy. After a guy testifies the damage is already done. No sense in pissing off the Government. This ain't Sicily (or even Montreal). If you kill a witness in the United States today, there's a fifty-fifty chance you'll get nailed for it. And a hundred percent guarantee that the Feds will never leave you alone on your other crimes.
And I'm not saying that the Feds play fair, or that they don't trample the constitution when it suits them (The Patriot Act, anyone?). I'm just saying that for all of the above reasons, Italian-American organized crime is a terrible career choice today. It's all over but the shouting.
I see your viewpoint but there are quite a number of people who will disagree with that, and with good reason.
If a CI killed him, and the Feds knew, they wouldnt charge anyone in the murder. They would play dumb. By bringing charges against anyone, they are increasing the attention to the case. So, if it were true that it was a CI and the feds knew, the feds would just continue to give the "its under investigation" until something else tragic happens and everyone forgets about it. And bail in any case involving murder, regardless of the role of the person (i.e., shooter, accomplice, eyewitness who may flee) is hardly ever granted; ESPECIALLY in mob cases, since witnesses DO disappear. Obviously!
I'm just saying that for all of the above reasons, Italian-American organized crime is a terrible career choice today. It's all over but the shouting.
I see your viewpoint but there are quite a number of people who will disagree with that, and with good reason.
Plenty of people disagree with that viewpoint. No argument there. But with "good" reason? I don't think so.
I'm not being preachy. People know me here. I'm 53 years old and grew up with this stuff all my life. And God only knows I've made plenty of my own mistakes as a younger guy. But the life is so different today than when I was a kid, I can't possibly see any "good" reason to pursue it. The perks are gone and the downside is far too great.
I'm just saying that for all of the above reasons, Italian-American organized crime is a terrible career choice today. It's all over but the shouting.
I see your viewpoint but there are quite a number of people who will disagree with that, and with good reason.
Plenty of people disagree with that viewpoint. No argument there. But with "good" reason? I don't think so.
I'm not being preachy. People know me here. I'm 53 years old and grew up with this stuff all my life. And God only knows I've made plenty of my own mistakes as a younger guy. But the life is so different today than when I was a kid, I can't possibly see any "good" reason to pursue it. The perks are gone and the downside is far too great.
I know you on here myself as mainly a lurker and I respect you, no doubt about that but it's about opinions. See and I can't say things from a personal perspective as I don't have that 'luxury' either.
But if you are talking about the life in general then it's still got pull. It's still got appeal. As much as a few decades ago? Of course not. The perks you talk about again aren't as great as they once were but they haven't evaporated.
It's a simplistic argument on my behalf, admittedly. When you talk about the downsides not being worth it, I feel that's a bit of a weird issue, in honesty. The fear say, 30 years ago of fucking up was a couple in the back of the head. That fear is no where near as strong anymore. I mean it's been nearly four years since a made guy was whacked in NYC.
Then the other downside is, of course, jail and the whole cavalcade of nonsense the process brings. A sentence to life in prison is arguably worse than a death penalty. See but then I'd say the Feds are more happier now to offer plea deals. Of course LCN is still rat infested which negates some of the downside, as wrong as I feel it is.
So my view is, and to be honest I don't 100% agree with it, there is still money to be made, respect to be had, a life to be lived. Again, not as well as a while ago but it's still there. And the fear of being whacked isn't there as much and prosecution is different now.
I'm just offering a different view, it's not gospel of course and as I said, I don't even know if I agree with it myself. I don't think it's totally preposterous though.
I completely agree with you there Philly. While the "old-timers" were equally violent, innocents were hardly killed. For NYC, I think the "noble Mob" image died with Carlo Gambino and anything that was left died with Paul Castellano,bringing the John Gotti "celebrity mobster" image and the violent paronoid schizoslike Casso and Amuso. Equally, in Philly, when all hell hit on Bruno and the Scarfo and Merlino killing sprees down I-95 was the destruction of the so-called "JV Philly Mob."
I too shared the honorable image of the mob at one time. But now, I see them as no different than street gangs such as the Crips and Bloods. My dad always wanted to me to become more interested in the mob, and I told him it was "boring" crime; not interesting like serial killers and rapists (my favorite case study at the time was Ted Bundy). He bought me the first Godfather book and told me if after I read it, if I am still not interested in the mob, then he will let it go. I finished the book in a week and half and begged him to drive me to bookstore to get the next two (I was in highschool w/o drivers license). I have been hooked ever since. If the old-timers were still alive, I would vote a few into the White House. (and that is coming from a very conservative republican w/ background in criminal prosecution)
I used to always see Ralph Natale "running" at Cooper River Park in Pennsauken New Jersey. My friends and I would always giggle when we saw him b/c whether winter or summer he had a very dark tan, without his shirt on, and his shorts pulled up to damn near his neck. If I knew then who he was I'd have invited him to a cup a coffee and a chat
Yes, old Ralphie had a place at the Cooper River Apartments with his tormented wife and you'd always see him running.
Jackie are you from Pennsauken? I'm pretty familiar with the area. Used to go to a car dealer right there on rt70 owned by the Holt family. They own a huge shipping container business right on the Delaware and the son had an exotic car dealer ship there real close to the Cooper River Apartments. Almost across the street from DeSimone Cadillac. It's been awhile since i've been in that area so i'm really not sure whats there now.
You mentioned the feds in the Nicodemo case but so far it's only a state case, no federal charges....yet.
I grew up in Cherry Hill and Mt. Laurel. I used at Cooper River to stay in shape as a lifeguard. My dad was a frequent guest of the Irish pub Connie Macks, and I took the place over as my go to spot once I turned 21.
One of my mentors is retired Secret Service and local expert in polygraphing and unofficial "friend" of some of the Philly boys. Ron Previte invited him to his daughter's wedding and my mentor was like thanks but ill have to pass. Previte once asked if he could sit in on the organized crime course my mentor teaches. Lol. Quite the celeb for being a helluva state witness.
I had no clue it was Ralph until I saw him on one of George Anastasia's Fox29 Friday night MobTalk sessions in maybe 2008-2009. When I heard George say Cooper River I looked up and lost my breath and then lost it laughing. Once I commented on Ralph, and my dad said, you can only hope one day you are that physically fit at his age. (my dad doesnt remember this). My friend and I would run around the entire lake and he perhaps made it around a quarter before we passed him.
I do miss those days. Thanks for the walk down memory lane. =)
Ahh, I didnt know it was state charges. I have been distracted researching the old old timers (i.e., the Morellos) for a crime author and my own research in terrorism. When I finally realized the Ligambi trial was going on and was ready to go see if I could squeeze in the courtroom it was too late as the case was already with the jury.
Now, mind you, in December 2008 I learned that my one time highschool crush was one of the Fort Dix Six and was trial - him and his brother (another one of the 6, both attended my 15th bday party at my house). Meanwhile, in Dec 2008 I was finishing up my third semester in law school and a year later found myself in a mock trial advocacy course being taught by known other than my former crush's defense attorney (who was also the attorney in Rabbi Neulander case the 2nd time around).
Those are my little claims to fame. My Fort Dix Six story is an interesting one; more so than my running past good ole Ralphie.
Here is a link to Nicodema's criminal docket. His prelim is scheduled for Feb 20th. He's facing 6 counts, with murder and conspiracy to murder being most serious of the six. He has a private attorney (shocker!). I'll look into the specifics of Philly's statute for murder of a witness and see how it works. I didnt know that it was a death penalty qualifer.
Meanwhile, in Dec 2008 I was finishing up my third semester in law school and a year later found myself in a mock trial advocacy course being taught by known other than my former crush's defense attorney (who was also the attorney in Rabbi Neulander case the 2nd time around).
You talking about Mike R? You went to school with those wannabe terrorists? LOL! They lived on Cooper Landing Road in one of those apartment complexes if my memory is correct.
I actually know the lawyer pretty well who repped Neulander the first time around and got him that hung jury. He was also the lawyer that got Joe Mouse out of prison early from Mousie's last bid. Jeff Z. i haven't seen him in a few years now but our paths have crossed several times over the years, nice guy and a good lawyer.
I'll look into the specifics of Philly's statute for murder of a witness and see how it works. I didnt know that it was a death penalty qualifer.
So far they've just hit Nicodemo with standard murder charges. No mention of DiPietro being a CI or potential witness. But if they do hit him with those he's looking at a possible death penalty case.
When you are referring to Mike R. you mean the lawyer right? If so, then yes. He still teaches the course at my old school every semester. He is a demanding beast as a professor and makes everything look so easy. His wife is the brain behind the enterprise, while he is mouth. His performance (being on trial, that is) is damn near flawless. Rabbi Neulander asked Mike to represent him in an appeal and Mike declined. I toured Trenton State Prison back in Summer 2009, and all the guards love him. Says he is an outstanding prisoner. lol. He is still on the old death row, which now serves as the celeb wing.
As for the FortDixSix, yes I actually went to school with 4 of the 6. The 2 younger Dukas, who portrayed themselves as NYC badboys (I had no clue they were here illegally, since you have to damn near give blood samples to get into CherryHill school system); nor did I have any clue they were Muslim, but then I didnt know anything about religion other than Catholicism at the time. They were always very secretive. I had a bf at the time (who was friends with them)so luckily it didnt go anywhere. My dad still tried sending me to my room (in my apartment) 12 years after the fact.
Oh yes in deed he is! It definitely is an aggravating qualifer. Maybe I can try to see if "shotgun" (no pun) is available for courtroom seats. lol.
"At the time of the killing, the victim was or had been a nongovernmental informant or had otherwise provided any investigative, law enforcement or police agency with information concerning criminal activity and the defendant committed the killing or was an accomplice to the killing as defined in 18 Pa.C.S. § 306(c), and the killing was in retaliation for the victim's activities as a nongovernmental informant or in providing information concerning criminal activity to an investigative, law enforcement or police agency."
I toured Trenton State Prison back in Summer 2009, and all the guards love him. Says he is an outstanding prisoner. lol. He is still on the old death row, which now serves as the celeb wing.
I think Neulander is still at Trenton State. I'm kind of surprised he's there because thats where they usually send the real hardcore worst of the worst guys in NJ. There's alot of murderers doing their time at other less hardcore prisons.
Oh yes in deed he is! It definitely is an aggravating qualifer. Maybe I can try to see if "shotgun" (no pun) is available for courtroom seats. lol.
"At the time of the killing, the victim was or had been a nongovernmental informant or had otherwise provided any investigative, law enforcement or police agency with information concerning criminal activity and the defendant committed the killing or was an accomplice to the killing as defined in 18 Pa.C.S. § 306(c), and the killing was in retaliation for the victim's activities as a nongovernmental informant or in providing information concerning criminal activity to an investigative, law enforcement or police agency."
No shit? Oh man, Nicodemo might really be screwed. I didn't know they brought up that DiPietro was a CI yet. Those are some real serious charges.
Jackie I'm sure your familiar with rocco cipparone jr. He represented me and got a very favorable outcome. Turns out he tutored the prosecutor in my case in law school. Anyway when I first met w him we sat down and discussed my situation, what he could do for me,and payment (quite a lot). When we were done he asked me if I had any other questions. I asked him who was one of his most notably clients, and he said the fort dix six. I responded "didn't they get life?" This guy looks at me dead serious and says "no, life plus thirty years" hahaha I almost pissed myself.
I asked him who was one of his most notably clients, and he said the fort dix six. I responded "didn't they get life?" This guy looks at me dead serious and says "no, life plus thirty years" hahaha I almost pissed myself.
LOL! That really is pretty funny. Lawyer humor i guess.
Oh my love! You are very right and yet so wrong. It would take me a good hour to type out a fantastic answer for you (or him if I were pretending to represent him). And I would have to read up on more of the specific details of the case. But, I will say from the outset, the feds generally only charge a case if they can win it; hence why the feds have a great conviction record. So when they lose, as they did just recently, they take it as a major blow.
I will take a little more time to reread your response and reply with a more substantive response. And I am by far not 'big shot' and I am the first to point out how corrupt lawyers are.
Finally, you may be better off representing yourself in a case, if it werent for all the procedural and evidentiary rules you will be required to know and comply with despite your lack of training. Which is why most self-rep cases fail. Now, there are, and I have personally seen, some defendants during sentencing cite the statutue number and precise language of a law and some judges have even been known to say that appeals written by prisoners on their own behalf are often better than those writtten by any attorney.
Expect my response in the near future, counsel!
Don't pay no attention to me I was just bustin your chops. You see I wriggled out of a few tight corners in my time so now with such profound wisdom in mind I like to think I can cut through the crap and do the Houdini on any charge no matter how slam dunk the case.
If a lawyer unraveled this guy out of this jam I would be impessed. If they got a plea down to third degree I'd be impressed. But anyway it's nice to have this insight from someone who really does knows the law. Great to have your input Jacklynn
He is still at Trenton State. And its NJ's highest security prison and b/c of his "celeb" status he is there. I cant remember the one dude who is also on that wing (I wanna say Ambrose Harris) that has been completely sectioned off, even from the rest of the celeb wing and only a very select few (i.e., 2 or 3) COs that will go near him. He is that unpredictable.
He is still at Trenton State. And its NJ's highest security prison and b/c of his "celeb" status he is there. I cant remember the one dude who is also on that wing (I wanna say Ambrose Harris) that has been completely sectioned off, even from the rest of the celeb wing and only a very select few (i.e., 2 or 3) COs that will go near him. He is that unpredictable.
I hate that worthless fuck Ambrose Harris. I think he killed a girl i knew. He was never charged but i think it was him. Similar to another case he was involved in.
If Gotti and Merlino were "Hollywood mobsters", Rocco is the definition of "Hollywood defense attorneys"....He went to Widener as well. And you must have paid a pretttty penny to even sit down with him. I think, but not sure, he is with same firm that rep'd Beanie Sigel and Cassidy in their cases.
Bigshots like him absolutely looove the attention when they talk about their big clients, whether win or lose.
Well, he did one good thing in his life; taking and completing the contract on Mud Man. Guards were telling that story and said it was absolutely nuts. That guards "couldnt/wouldnt" do anything. Just stood there behind the locked doors and watched.
Well, he did one good thing in his life; taking and completing the contract on Mud Man. Guards were telling that story and said it was absolutely nuts. That guards "couldnt/wouldnt" do anything. Just stood there behind the locked doors and watched.
Mudman Simon was another worthless piece of shit, no big loss there, but with Ambrose Harris it's personal and i mean real personal. I know a few people who would love to have a crack at that asshole. You have no idea.
Heard that...He actually just requested (and was denied) early release. LOL. He cant even be housed with the other high security inmates, let alone the genpop. Yet, somehow courts are going to grant his release into the real general population, i.e., society. Takes a few screws loose to try that one.
Well, he did one good thing in his life; taking and completing the contract on Mud Man. Guards were telling that story and said it was absolutely nuts. That guards "couldnt/wouldnt" do anything. Just stood there behind the locked doors and watched.
Mudman Simon was another worthless piece of shit, no big loss there, but with Ambrose Harris it's personal and i mean real personal. I know a few people who would love to have a crack at that asshole. You have no idea.
Wasn't mudman a warlock or pagan mc member or something?
Wasn't mudman a warlock or pagan mc member or something?
Warlock back in the 1970's and maybe the early 80's before he was sent to prison. I think he killed his girlfriend because she wouldn't gang bang his buddies. A real POS. Then after he was released from prison for that case he ended up killing a cop like maybe a week or 2 after he was released. Thats why he was at Trenton State when he was killed by Ambrose Harris.
Heard that...He actually just requested (and was denied) early release. LOL. He cant even be housed with the other high security inmates, let alone the genpop. Yet, somehow courts are going to grant his release into the real general population, i.e., society. Takes a few screws loose to try that one.
Released? He was supposed to be executed. Then when Corzine got rid of the death penalty i thought all the death sentences were changed to Life w/o parole. No?
Your telling me this guy might get released in the future? Unbelievable! He'll kill again as soon as he's back on the street...no doubt about it. He's a real animal.
Yes, all of Corzine's fans (death row inmates) were converted to life w/o....BUT, NJ, unlike PA, isnt a life w/o means life WITHOUT parole. Thus, life inmates can petition for early release and potentially have a judge grant the petition and be let out. With that said, Harris wont even see the door out of the celeb wing, let alone any of the doors. That prison has INTENSE security. All prisoners are behind 2 sets of doors which separate the administration offices and freedom. Everyone, COs included, have to go through full security and hand over their guns.
3 years later, I can still smell the inside of the prison in my hair. One of the other legal interns for NJ AG's office that went with my group on tour, got through 15 minutes before she felt physically sick and 3 COs had to escort her out. LOL! It was in the middle of July, 90 degrees outside, in there no less than 110 degrees. OMG! You get the point. I didnt eat lunch or dinner that night (not only had half a day left at the AG's office, but then had to drive from Trenton back to Delaware). I told people, I would kill myself before going to that prison. The average sentence is Life! lol.
Yes, all of Corzine's fans (death row inmates) were converted to life w/o....BUT, NJ, unlike PA, isnt a life w/o means life WITHOUT parole. Thus, life inmates can petition for early release and potentially have a judge grant the petition and be let out.
Just another reason to hate NJ.
Originally Posted By: JacklynnPetropoulos
3 years later, I can still smell the inside of the prison in my hair. One of the other legal interns for NJ AG's office that went with my group on tour, got through 15 minutes before she felt physically sick and 3 COs had to escort her out. LOL! It was in the middle of July, 90 degrees outside, in there no less than 110 degrees. OMG! You get the point. I didnt eat lunch or dinner that night (not only had half a day left at the AG's office, but then had to drive from Trenton back to Delaware). I told people, I would kill myself before going to that prison. The average sentence is Life! lol.
I couldn't take being in that place (TSP) on a good day, but with no A/C i'd probably hang myself. Hell with that. lol
Giancarlo, if you ever do find yourself in TSP, immediately act crazy. The psych ward IS AIR CONDITIONED! Granted, you may be in a cell alone and naked with video cameras on you, but nonetheless, Id take that over the smell of that place.
Giancarlo, if you ever do find yourself in TSP, immediately act crazy. The psych ward IS AIR CONDITIONED! Granted, you may be in a cell alone and naked with video cameras on you, but nonetheless, Id take that over the smell of that place.
Hey the psych ward is where all the good meds are.
Meds and A/C sure sounds alot better to me then being in gen pop with all those other mass murdering lunatics in a 110 degree sweatbox.
The jails here in Georgia are air conditioned to the max! It keeps down diseases. When your inside, the most valuable commodity is a sweatshirt. Every time i got out I gave mine to the coolest dude in the pod. The other guys were looking at me with daggers. Oh well...
The jails here in Georgia are air conditioned to the max! It keeps down diseases. When your inside, the most valuable commodity is a sweatshirt. Every time i got out I gave mine to the coolest dude in the pod. The other guys were looking at me with daggers. Oh well...
Sounds good to me, throw in a private cell with some cable tv and if you really have to do some time thats the place i could deal with for a few years.
Can you imagine being in a texas prison with no A/C during the summer and working on one of those chain gangs in the 110+ degree heat? Just too brutal for me, thats why i don't even visit texas.
Yea I remember in my younger days getting locked up at the district in south philly on 24st. I always bailed out before having to go to CFCF, the city jail. Here in Philly you are in the district for at least 24 to 48 hours before you see the judge over the phone to set bail and if its a Friday night you won't see one till Monday. The AC is blowing so hard that the guys start putting toilet paper in the holes of the vents.I was so pissed and cold because I was in shorts and a t shirt because that night it was a warm spring night. I was told it blows like that because of the diseases as well. I am not sure what the city jail CFCF where Nicodemo is is like except for that friends have told me its overpacked and you don't get out at all really. And there aren't to many white guys.
Has Nicodemo been indicted on these charges? I'm not even sure if PA uses grand jury's so i might be a little off on that. After he's officially indicted i think he's entitled to get full discovery and can see exactly what they have on him and what they don't.
I bet he won't go to trial for at least another year though.
Giancarlo, Nicodemo's preliminary hearing which is when judge will decide if there is enough evidence for case to go to trial (formally charged which is equiv of formal indictment). Prosecution does not show its hand and I'd be shocked if judge throws out charges. Defense attorneys (thus the client) are not ENTITLED (prosecutors can hand over before) to full discovery until 10 days prior to TRIAL in municipal (which is court Nicodemo is in).
Giancarlo, Nicodemo's preliminary hearing which is when judge will decide if there is enough evidence for case to go to trial (formally charged which is equiv of formal indictment). Prosecution does not show its hand and I'd be shocked if judge throws out charges. Defense attorneys (thus the client) are not ENTITLED (prosecutors can hand over before) to full discovery until 10 days prior to TRIAL in municipal (which is court Nicodemo is in).
I've heard the DA is having a grand jury for the case. If that does in fact happen does Nicodemo's hearing get delayed until after the grand jury is finished?
Edited to add a question.
If the trial becomes a federal trial how long prior to trial does the defense get the discovery information?
In jersey i always thought that after your charged with a crime the prosecutor will present the case to a grand jury and your then officially indicted on those charges. I thought you got discovery right after that but i'm not a lawyer so i'm not sure about it.
But full discovery 10 days before trial? Thats really pretty tough for the defense. Especially if it's a complicated case.
Its by state. NJ is a "grand jury" state. PA is not. They can empanel a grand jury (like they did in Penn State sex abuse case) but its not required by state law. Very few states require grand jury indictments; grand jury indictments are required by US Constitution in federal cases.
Again the 10 day rule is when its ENTITLED; prosecutors generally dont wait that long. And it comes up in dribbles, not all at once. So prosecutors will hold back the good stuff til the end if they want to mess with you.
Its by state. NJ is a "grand jury" state. PA is not.
Thats what i was wondering about, if it worked the same way as it does in NJ. I'm really not too familiar with the PA court system and the way it handles cases.
The feds can actually wait until after the state case to try him. You can be tried by both the state and the feds for the same crime (double jeop doesnt apply).
If they are empaneling grand jury, its not necessarily any different with respect to discovery. Grand jury is a prosecution show. Defense attorneys are not permitted to ask any questions or make any objections or present any witnesses.
His prelim is set for Feb 20th so if judge finds there is enough evidence to go forward (which she most likely will) then he will be officially charged (indicted) and the case goes forward. They dont have to wait for the grand jury for the case to proceed. The grand jury often continues to investigate and then if they decide they can add more charges through a superseding indictment.
Its by state. NJ is a "grand jury" state. PA is not. They can empanel a grand jury (like they did in Penn State sex abuse case) but its not required by state law. Very few states require grand jury indictments; grand jury indictments are required by US Constitution in federal cases.
So in your professional judgment by the DA taking it to a grand jury would you say that means they are going for federal charges or is there possible other reasons to do so?
Edit: Thanks for the above answer. Much appreciated.
His prelim is set for Feb 20th so if judge finds there is enough evidence to go forward (which she most likely will) then he will be officially charged (indicted) and the case goes forward. They dont have to wait for the grand jury for the case to proceed. The grand jury often continues to investigate and then if they decide they can add more charges through a superseding indictment.
Unless I am reading the docket from the previous page incorrectly it says Feb 20th was cancelled.
From the docket:
"Preliminary Hearing 02/20/2013 9:00 am 306 Cancelled"
"Status 03/11/2013 1:30 pm 608 Judge Charles A. Ehrlich Scheduled"
New Date For Mob Trial; Kaboni Savage Drug Case Continues
By George Anastasia For Bigtrial.net
Judge Eduardo Robreno has set April 16 as the date for the retrial of mob boss Joseph "Uncle Joe" Ligambi and three co-defendants.
But most courtroom observers say you'd be would be wise to hold off on putting that notice in your "save the date" calendar.
"He's just trying to push the process along," said one veteran of the criminal justice system. "I doubt the trial will go off that quickly."
In fact, the prosecution hasn't formally announced that it intends to retry Ligambi and the others on the 11 charges that a jury left "undecided" when it delivered its verdicts earlier this month. That decision is now in the hands of the U.S. Justice Department in Washington.
Not unexpectedly, Robreno also denied motions by lawyers for six of the defendants seeking to have all the charges against them dismissed. The judge also set sentencing dates in May for four defendants who were found guilty by the jury in a split verdict that still has defendants, their attorneys and many courtroom observers scatching their heads.
Meanwhile, seven floors below Robreno 15th floor courtroom, another big trial continued to play out as prosecutors laid out the case against drug kingpin Kaboni Savage and three co-defendants. FBI Agent Kevin Lewis, the lead investigator in the case, finished his fifth day on the witness stand early this afternoon.
Two other prosecution witnesses were called later in the day. The first of several cooperating witness who worked the drug underworld with Savage is expected to take the stand when the trial resumes this morning.
The two cases offer different and changing views of the Philadelphia underworld.
Ligambi and his co-defendants were charged with racketeering conspiracy in a case built around allegations of gambling, extortion and loansharking. Testimony focused on video poker machines that generated a few hundreds of dollars a week (or month) in profits and street-level extortion loans of several thousand dollars.
Defense attorneys derisively referred to the case as "racketeering lite." Others said the case was indicative of the waning days of Cosa Nostra.
Savage and his co-defendants, on the other hand, are charged in a case that includes 12 homicides and that epitomizes the bloody and wantonly violent drug underworld. Testimony thus far has focused on a drug network where a kilo of cocaine costs $27,000 and where the "players" in that game dealt in multi-kilogram shipments and hundred-thousand dollar business deals.
Savage and two of his co-defendants could be sentenced to death if convicted.
The penalties in the Ligambi case are substantially less, but could effectively end the criminal careers of some of the defendants.
Ligambi, 73, his nephew George Borgesi, 49, and a top associate, Anthony Staino, 55, could face retrial on racketeering conspiracy charges. The jury could not decide that count against those three defendants. Ligambi and Staino also face gambling-related chares on which the jury hung.
Mob underboss Joseph "Mousie" Massimino, 62, potentially faces a retrial on three gambling charges on which the jury hung as well.
But Massimino, mob soldier Damion Canalichio and mob associate Gary Battaglini were convicted of racketeering conspiracy by the same jury. They are scheduled to be sentenced in May. Staino was convicted of two extortion charges for which he also will be sentenced.
Massimino and Canalichio, with prior convictions and criminal records, could be facing 10 to 12 years in prison when they are sentenced.
A retrial, if it happens, is expected to be shorter and more focused than the 10-week trial that led to 21 days of often confusing jury deliberation. Most obsevers say the prosecution has an advantage in any retrial because it is able to reshape its case. Fewer tapes, fewer witnesses and more pointed testimony would likely be part of a new presentation for a prosecution team that believed the jury in the first trial got lost.
Part of that might be attributable to a prosecution presentation that many believed was disjointed and unorganized. The second time around, that probably won't be the case.
The jury had to decide 62 charges against seven defendants in a 52-count indictment. It came back with 46 not guilty decisions. The panel was undecided on 11 charges and delivered just five guilty verdicts.
Nevertheless, those convicted face significiant jail time. In addition, Ligambi, Borgesi and Staino run the risk of being convicted of a racketeering conspiracy count that carries a maximum 20-year sentence. At Ligambi's age, a conviction would be tantamount to a life sentence.
For Borgesi the situation is particularly galling. The volatile mobster, who was finishing a 14-year sentence for a 2001 racketeering conviction when he was indicted with Ligambi and the others in May 2011, was found not guilty of 13 of the 14 charges against him by the juyr.
But the jury hung -- was undecided -- on the racketeering conspiracy charge, a decison that Borgesi's lawyer, Paul Hetznecker, is expected to challenge as illogical in a post-trial motion.
The decision on whether to retry on the unresolved charges is expected to be announced in the near future. In the meantime, Ligambi, Borgesi and the four other defendants remain in the Federal Detention Center.
Savage, 38, and his co-defendants are in the same facility,.
His trial was marked by a rare note of levity this afternoon when FBI Agent Edward Frimel testified about how he and others members of a fugitive task force tracked Savage down in 1999 when he was wanted on a murder charge pending in Philadelphia (He later beat that case when a key witness was killed days before trial. That murder is one of the 12 homicides in the current case).
Frimel said he and other members of the task force learned that Savage was staying at an apartment in Stoney Run Village in Maple Shade, N.J. He said when they entered the apartment they found Savage "hiding under a pile of clothes and a comforter" at the foot of the bed in the apartment's one bedroom.
A veteran of the fugitive unit, Frimel said it was "not unusual" for find fugitives hiding under beds or clothes and blankets. Then, he added, "I once had a guy standing in a corner with a lampshade on his head."
The comment drew laughter from attorneys, jurors and members of the audience.
And before Assistant U.S. Attorney John Gallagher completed his questioning of Frimel, he came back to that incident.
"The guy with the lampshade," Gallagher asked. "You caught him, right?"
You have to think that Borgesi should get released - he's done his bit for over 10 years - he doesn't deserve a release ? That's f'n bs at the highest level.
WOW! When did you first see this do you remember? As in the day? Because I saved the docket (dated stamed 2/11/13) to my computer. Lol. And the "Continuance Granted" game begins!
Indictments are sealed for one and one reason only. Keeping everything secret from everyone - i.e., co-conspirators that havent yet been arrested (let alone charged). Also, if informants were used, the mob guys still on the outside will often know from the allegations in the indictment the identities of the informants (e.g., Louie Chopsticks was the only other person aware of the specifics of certain day). This is particularly troubling (for Mr. Chopsticks if he is still on the street acting as informant)
Terrorism indictments are 99.5% of the time sealed. Organized crime and street gang cases are as well.
WOW! When did you first see this do you remember? As in the day? Because I saved the docket (dated stamed 2/11/13) to my computer. Lol. And the "Continuance Granted" game begins!
I saw it a few minutes before I posted above. I figured either it had changed since you read the docket or you had other information from somewhere that wasn't listed there.
Does it mean anything that the new court date is listed as "status" and not preliminary hearing? Do they have status court updates on the case when information is sealed? Therefore it's not necessarily the day of his preliminary hearing? Or will the same process for Nicodemo's PH be done that day and they just used a different word?
Edited to clarify question due to cobwebs in brain.
I have also heard that he wasn't the gunman. I don't know for a fact but I did hear that and I have said it before. If he was going straight home, cause he obviously didn't get rid of any evidence, he would have beat the cops to his house by a lot after the call came in from the mail man. He had to drop someone off somewhere first. But word on the street is that he wasn't alone.
I also heard this awhile ago from a very reliable person. I was waiting for someone else to say it publicly first though. But what I was told was he was the driver, not the gunman.
Yep same I heard and I said same think on RD last week. So do we think his indictment was sealed because of any certain reason? I know Jacklyn said a lot of OC stuff is sealed but this wasn't being treated as an OC case at first and isn't a FED case (yet?) and hes still in city lock up from what I know and his family is still in town last I heard. They listed all his charges and then their was a motion to seal and then it was sealed on 2/12. Just curious...
The talk from day 1 has been that there's a real good chance he was there to drive and or supervise what went down and wasn't the shooter. Very similar to the hit on Martorano. Ambush the target in broad daylight, pretty smart, huh? They got lucky it worked with the hit on Long John so the idiot did it again, in broad daylight. Which by the way almost didn't work, Martorano lived for 2 weeks after the shooting.
We know there is a mailman who saw the car leaving the scene, but is that all he saw? So what, he dropped the shooter off but kept the gun? Real fucking smart if thats what happened. Doesn't hitman 101 say get rid of the murder weapon? If he didn't have that gun and all the mailman saw was the car leaving the area then i would of said he has a pretty good chance at trial but that gun is the noose around his dumb head thats going to hang the idiot.
All those charges listed are he same charges he's had since the day he was charged the day after the shooting. I don't see anything additional added or for that matter taken off. A sealed indictment could mean there's additional evidence in the case or maybe that the target was a CI but we won't know until it's unsealed. Might mean something , might not.
They would know if Nicedemo was the shooter as soon as they picked him up. They use the reagent test for gumpowder residue ASAP. He probably would not have had time to completely wash off the residue. LE are waiting/pressuring him to 'give up' the shooter. With the amount of time that has passed already, looks like Nicodemo might stand tall. I imagine the family's admin members on the street have passed/received messages to Nicodemo through his visitors in jail. Reassurances passed back and forth, etc. If Nicodemo is cut from the same cloth as Mousie, then as Jiggs would say, "The Philly Mob rides again."
They would know if Nicedemo was the shooter as soon as they picked him up. They use the reagent test for gumpowder residue ASAP. He probably would not have had time to completely wash off the residue.
Exactly. He didn't have time to clean up so if he passed that paraffin test then most likely he didn't shoot the weapon that day and the cops know it.
Ohhhhhhh now I understand things a little better. Nicodemo has a private attorney. He has THE BEST OF private attorneys. The firm representing him is an amazing defense team. They got Beanie Sigel an acquittal on attempted murder. It is the go to firm for high profile criminal defendants.
His case has also been moved to the Court of Common Pleas (that was the cancel of preliminary hearing to status hearing). My friend is lawyer with Philly Public Defender and the judge that is now assigned on the docket is a Common Pleas judge.
A status hearing is precisely what it sounds like - prosecution and defense update judge on what the status of the case.
Ohhhhhhh now I understand things a little better. Nicodemo has a private attorney. He has THE BEST OF private attorneys. The firm representing him is an amazing defense team. They got Beanie Sigel an acquittal on attempted murder. It is the go to firm for high profile criminal defendants.
His case has also been moved to the Court of Common Pleas (that was the cancel of preliminary hearing to status hearing). My friend is lawyer with Philly Public Defender and the judge that is now assigned on the docket is a Common Pleas judge.
A status hearing is precisely what it sounds like - prosecution and defense update judge on what the status of the case.
The docket also says the preliminary arraignment (where the charges are listed) is "not final." Meaning the prosecution has atleast is saying (whether true or a bluff) that there will be additional charges in future.
If the case against Nicodemo was a slam dunk, you would know because the Feds would be prosecuting him and not the state.
The docket also says the preliminary arraignment (where the charges are listed) is "not final." Meaning the prosecution has atleast is saying (whether true or a bluff) that there will be additional charges in future.
If the case against Nicodemo was a slam dunk, you would know because the Feds would be prosecuting him and not the state.
Brian is a busy defense attorney just like fortunato I wouldn't be surprised if hearings keep getting pushed back and back anc back
That gun is going to haunt him. If he had just gotten rid of it i would say he could easily beat the case, but that gun that they say can be ballistically tied to the body is going to hang him.
How does he explain away the gun?
At the very least he's an accomplice to a homicide. And if they can prove it was a planned murder to get rid of a witness he's as guilty as the guy who pulled the trigger.
People now seem to think it was a sanctioned hit so the interesting question to ask is who sanctioned it? Seems to me it had to have been one of 3 people, Ligambi, Merlino or Mazzone.
I doubt Ligambi because he was on trial and it happened right as the case was going to the jury. So i think it was either Merlino or Mazzone or maybe both that gave Nicodemo the ok to take DiPietro out.
That gun is going to haunt him. If he had just gotten rid of it i would say he could easily beat the case, but that gun that they say can be ballistically tied to the body is going to hang him.
How does he explain away the gun?
At the very least he's an accomplice to a homicide. And if they can prove it was a planned murder to get rid of a witness he's as guilty as the guy who pulled the trigger.
Yeah, the "during the commission of a crime" thing death makes it felony murder, right? Just like if someone died during an armed robbery.
I am very interested to see how this ties in with the decision to retry Ligambi. We all know that being on trial doesnt stop someone from ordering a hit. And (although I am not certain) I dont know that Ligambi himself had to order it. Even if Merlino or Mazzone ordered it, if it was done on behalf of Ligambi and/or "the family", there is a possibilty that the murder can be added onto charges of Ligambi. (Im not absolutely certain, and it would be risky for feds to do this because it could water down the other charges in jury's mind).
The Feds decision to retry Ligambi (in APRIL!) is interesting. And you can be sure that Nicodemo is feeling pressure from all sides (The State, The Feds, and The Family). Whether he was the trigger man, was there, knew about it, or had no clue, is irrelevant. I wouldnt wish his situation on my worst enemy.
Yup thats felony murder. Its can result in some very sad outcomes. While I am very conservative, hard on crime, kind of lawyer, I wont deny there are at least 2 guys doing life without possibility of parole (which is just that in PA) who shouldnt be there. Not that they didnt kill someone - they did - but circumstances of the cases would make you cry yourself to sleep.
How about a guy doing life with out parole for a non violent crime that I believe may have been his first arrest. I have mentioned him on here several times as his story interests me, especially being Long John's son is George "Cowboy" Martorano. Pleads guilty and the judge screws him cause of who is father is basically. Thats not justice! But yet let a little hoodlum murder another little punk in North Philly and he gets 10 years.
Neil Ferber was sitting on PA death row for the mob murder of Chelsais "Steve" Bouras. I forget how long he was locked up until they finally figured out he had nothing to do with it. Pretty crazy an innocent guy can end up on death row and possibly be executed.
Jacklynn they set the date for the retrial but i read they haven't actually decided yet if they're going retry them on the charges that weren't decided. It was just a formality that they set the trial date but it's not a done deal yet.
The judge is trying to get things moving they said.
Right, according to George Anastasia's blog the decision to retry them will be made by the Justice Department down in DC in the near future. But it's not a done deal yet.
I am so frustrated with (old) news coverage of philly mob. I cant find any pictures of the old hits from the scarfo-merlino-natale wars. I have Bruno's scene (obviously), Phil Testa's house, Falcone in trunk, Ron Previte's car all shot up from Stanfa ambush..Thats it. Well and Tony Bananas's car.
Was the footage of the attempted hit on Joey Chang and Stanfa at Joey's coffeshop ever released to public?
He got a raw deal. GA had mentioned on one of his sites that the reason behind that was Scarfo and Bobby Simone. I have the last mouth piece that Bobby Simone wrote its a pretty good book and he does mention something in regards to that as well that there wasn't any beef with long john or his son, but who knows.
I am so frustrated with (old) news coverage of philly mob. I cant find any pictures of the old hits from the scarfo-merlino-natale wars. I have Bruno's scene (obviously), Phil Testa's house, Falcone in trunk, Ron Previte's car all shot up from Stanfa ambush..Thats it. Well and Tony Bananas's car.
Was the footage of the attempted hit on Joey Chang and Stanfa at Joey's coffeshop ever released to public?
Yeah that is supposedly the only mob hit ever got on tape. There is video footage of a statiowagon going spining the block then a few dark shadows run in and you hear gunshots and audio of the girl I forget her first name last name was Lucibello Screaming
I went to same law school as Perri...He is sort of a legend there. I didnt know he was a Republican though. That makes my heart smile.
His father was indicted recently and is supposedly pleading guilty to the ticket fixing scandal for the traffic court. That traffic court in Phila is racket to begin with. I love how they mail you RED LIGHT TICKETS...and they have a CRYSTAL CLEAR PICTURE OF YOUR LICENSE PLATE,yet if someone is getting mugged raped shot or whatever they have grainy surveillance footage that can barely make out the individual
He got a raw deal. GA had mentioned on one of his sites that the reason behind that was Scarfo and Bobby Simone. I have the last mouth piece that Bobby Simone wrote its a pretty good book and he does mention something in regards to that as well that there wasn't any beef with long john or his son, but who knows.
One of the reasons they won't cut George Martorano any slack is because Tommy DelGiorno said George was one of the 2 shooters who murdered Steve Bouras and his girlfriend. He said Frank Vadino was the other shooter. Vadino was with Long John and part of his drug operation.
If you youtube one of the Philadelphia documentaries they show a few videos of that hit. I can't remember which documentary though. Philly mob has a lot of firsts in history. Some of the dumbest firsts...
Any suspects on who the shooter is if nicodemo is the driver ?
If i was a cop i'd probably want to find out where Dom Grande was at the time of the shooting. But it could of been any of the many guys from south philly looking for a way to earn a button. But personally i would start with Grande.
Baldinos would be worth catching up with too probably
I doubt the Baldino's would step up like this, aside from the blood ties it is not in their nature. Both kids grew up with money, they own a club and run a very popular sandwich place in South Philly, neither one has the hunger or the need to step up like that.
Has to be somebody much higher up on AN's level, they haven't hit anyone in years so I doubt they would use somebody not experienced in this kind of thing.
What's Lancelotti up to these days,does this guy even have a parking ticket? Oh yeah I just thought of something he did punch a guy at Chickie and Pete's one time basically right in front of a cop.I think he got anger management classes out of it.Also maybe things are starting to change again in the underworld.Last week or early this week a dealer[Not sure if he was connected] who ratted out guys in Long Island NY got whacked coming out of a nite club,he was about to get sentenced this Friday.It really hit the feds hard because now they said people may think twice about co-operating.This DiPetro hit was sort of the same thing so maybe the days of guys ratting and walking around in public may be over.
"The mafia operates because it demands respect and prestige from those within its membership, those associated with it, and those who are victimized by it." ~ PA Judge Cirillo
"The mafia operates because it demands respect and prestige from those within its membership, those associated with it, and those who are victimized by it." ~ PA Judge Cirillo
CLASSIC
Where did that come from CJC ordown market street?
It is a quote from the PA Supreme Court opinion in which the conviction of Scarfo, Iannarell, Jr., Ligambi, Sal & Lawrence Merlino, Phil and Frank Narducci, Jr., and Nick Milano for the murder of Frankie Flowers.
Back in the day No Made Guy was ever aloud to take a Plea ! If anyone plead guilty it was considered cooperating ! Now times have changed but Iam sure Scarfo wasn't too happy when the guys plead guilty.
What do you mean the trouble is coming then ? Is this possible flip?
Could be. The postponement coupled with a new grand jury can't be good news. If Nicodemo or Canalichio suddenly "change counsel," then you'll know. But until then it's not fair to speculate.
Some of the more knowledgable Philly posters on RD seem to think that they'll both stand tall. So until they're proven wrong, I'll give them the benefit of the doubt.
Okay thanks - despite my newbie status I'm pretty knowledgeable of the Philly scene and history ... Nicodemo should stand up and go for the court system - have to think Dame is thinking of doing deals ... He's been doing time for too long for a young guy .. There are enough in Philly who won't find Nico guilty - just from a south Philly "I know nothing" position .. ligambi probably screwed - Borgesi should walk
Joselevens what do you mean they will play that ''I didn't see nothing role''Nicodemo is getting something I mean you can't speed away from a scene,have the murder weapon and ski mask in you vehicle registered to you and everybody play dumb.What's his defense going to be,somebody walked up to his vehicle and threw the evidence in there?What bad luck.Either he did it or he knows who did it and I don't necessarily think he should turn rat but then again if he doesn't he is probably going down for this.It's amazing the feds have been waiting for a break like this and they got it dropped right in to their laps.
Joselevens what do you mean they will play that ''I didn't see nothing role''Nicodemo is getting something I mean you can't speed away from a scene,have the murder weapon and ski mask in you vehicle registered to you and everybody play dumb.What's his defense going to be,somebody walked up to his vehicle and threw the evidence in there?What bad luck.Either he did it or he knows who did it and I don't necessarily think he should turn rat but then again if he doesn't he is probably going down for this.It's amazing the feds have been waiting for a break like this and they got it dropped right in to their laps.
I can hear the conversation now between client and lawyer.The lawyer says don't worry they got nothing but a body,the murder weapon,a motive,and an eyewitness.Other than that were looking good.
I can hear the conversation now between client and lawyer.The lawyer says don't worry they got nothing but a body,the murder weapon,a motive,and an eyewitness.Other than that were looking good.
Whatever happen to Raneri esposito and 2 other guys they got their cases severed from Ligambi's
I can hear the conversation now between client and lawyer.The lawyer says don't worry they got nothing but a body,the murder weapon,a motive,and an eyewitness.Other than that were looking good.
Whatever happen to Raneri esposito and 2 other guys they got their cases severed from Ligambi's
I don't think they've gone to trial yet. The feds probably wanted to wrap up the big trial first.
Joselevens what do you mean they will play that ''I didn't see nothing role''Nicodemo is getting something I mean you can't speed away from a scene,have the murder weapon and ski mask in you vehicle registered to you and everybody play dumb.What's his defense going to be,somebody walked up to his vehicle and threw the evidence in there?What bad luck.Either he did it or he knows who did it and I don't necessarily think he should turn rat but then again if he doesn't he is probably going down for this.It's amazing the feds have been waiting for a break like this and they got it dropped right in to their laps.
Someone could have borrowed his car...
Did they pick Nicodemo up as he was getting out of his car or was he already in the house when the cops got him?
I don't know supposedly his brother was posting on here he has seemed to stop posting. The phila court system is jammed pack on the state level so I'm sure the federal one is too its My attorney had ruled a motion rule600 right to a speedy trial I been out for over 3 1/2 years and there still bolshitting around
Back in the day No Made Guy was ever aloud to take a Plea ! If anyone plead guilty it was considered cooperating ! Now times have changed but Iam sure Scarfo wasn't too happy when the guys plead guilty.
Love the !!! after your possts man fired the fuck up reminds me of one of my boys that he talks so fucking loud it sounds like hes yeliing
Joselevens what do you mean they will play that ''I didn't see nothing role''Nicodemo is getting something I mean you can't speed away from a scene,have the murder weapon and ski mask in you vehicle registered to you and everybody play dumb.What's his defense going to be,somebody walked up to his vehicle and threw the evidence in there?What bad luck.Either he did it or he knows who did it and I don't necessarily think he should turn rat but then again if he doesn't he is probably going down for this.It's amazing the feds have been waiting for a break like this and they got it dropped right in to their laps.
Someone could have borrowed his car...
Did they pick Nicodemo up as he was getting out of his car or was he already in the house when the cops got him?
I believve when the cops arrested him they read him his miranda rights and he said you have the right to suck my dick!!!
There are enough in Philly who won't find Nico guilty - just from a south Philly "I know nothing" position
I respectfully disagree, Jose. Using that logic they'd never get a conviction. I mean, if that's the case, then guys like Scarfo and Chuckie Merlino would never have gone to prison.
Nah, this ends one of two ways for Nicodemo. Life in jail, or he cooperates, gets out in maybe ten, and goes into the Program. And the way things are going with the American mob, in ten years he probably won't even need the Program. There are rats who are living just fine without it right now.
Agree with you pizzaboy - I know the witness may be there and the firearm and the car but : What If the fingerprints don't match What if there was another body/shooter in the car who was dropped off - there is no way they could run plates and beat Nicodemo home - it's a mile away from his house If there was a ski mask can they identify him 100% There is a defense attorney out there who would love this one. Someone call Cutler! That said it would seem its stacked against him. If he can put to bed murders of long John, gongs, and a couple others - they will give him a deal. He could potentially serve up the whole lot to the Feds
I brought this up before but when that home invasion in Staten Island went bad and they killed that women Chris Paciello never even got out of the car,was never in the house yet still got charged like the guys that did the shooting.Just the fact that Nicodemo was there makes him guilty,I don't think it matters who the attorney is.
I brought this up before but when that home invasion in Staten Island went bad and they killed that women Chris Paciello never even got out of the car,was never in the house yet still got charged like the guys that did the shooting.Just the fact that Nicodemo was there makes him guilty,I don't think it matters who the attorney is.
It's called the Felony Murder Statute, 22. And you're absolutely right. It varies from state to state, but the gist of it reads that if someone is killed during the commission of a crime, everyone involved in said crime, up and down the line, is just as guilty as the shooter.
That's the charge that that little punk Lillo Brancato was facing a few years ago when his pal killed that Bronx cop during a drug induced botched robbery. He beat it, though. But the cases are apples and oranges. They had the shooter in the Brancato case, and if I remember correctly he got something like twenty five to life.
They're trying to keep the id's of the witnesses from coming out. You know Nicodemo is going to try to get to them and convince them it's not in their best interest to testify.
I don't know this guy from Adam but i don't think he's rolling. Maybe after a trial but i really don't think he's going to flip before it.
They're trying to keep the id's of the witnesses from coming out. You know Nicodemo is going to try to get to them and convince them it's not in their best interest to testify.
I don't know this guy from Adam but i don't think he's rolling. Maybe after a trial but i really don't think he's going to flip before it.
I hope the Feds Don't flip him by bringing him some long hots and a roast pork sandwich with sharp provolone
They're trying to keep the id's of the witnesses from coming out. You know Nicodemo is going to try to get to them and convince them it's not in their best interest to testify.
I don't know this guy from Adam but i don't think he's rolling. Maybe after a trial but i really don't think he's going to flip before it.
I hope the Feds Don't flip him by bringing him some long hots and a roast pork sandwich with sharp provolone
They're trying to keep the id's of the witnesses from coming out. You know Nicodemo is going to try to get to them and convince them it's not in their best interest to testify.
I don't know this guy from Adam but i don't think he's rolling. Maybe after a trial but i really don't think he's going to flip before it.
I hope the Feds Don't flip him by bringing him some long hots and a roast pork sandwich with sharp provolone
More importantly, John's Roast Pork or DiNic's?
No Doubt you ever read that Phila Mag Article when they interview Joe Ligambi and he bitches about the Roast Beef in the area he compares it to something else forget what that is but it cracked me up because you know where's he talking about the place got shutdown a few years ago because they had bugs ,,,
Try happy hour at New York Prime off Glades Road, just west of Military Trail (I'm actually serious. The place is wannabe central, but a few "real guys" wander in now and then ).
Try happy hour at New York Prime off Glades Road, just west of Military Trail (I'm actually serious. The place is wannabe central, but a few "real guys" wander in now and then ).
I'm right off Glades. Went to Dominick's last night. Not bad red snapper. I'll take a look at New York prime
Try happy hour at New York Prime off Glades Road, just west of Military Trail (I'm actually serious. The place is wannabe central, but a few "real guys" wander in now and then ).
I'm right off Glades. Went to Dominick's last night. Not bad red snapper. I'll take a look at New York prime
Don't take my post wrong. I don't recommend the place. It's overpriced and the food ain't that great to begin with. I was just pointing out that it has become somewhat of a "hangout" lately.
Make sure that you try Tramonti in Delray Beach. Best Italian restaurant in Palm Beach County if you ask me. Only been there a couple years but they're owned by the same family as Angelo's of Mulberry Street. And they've been there for over a hundred years.
Try happy hour at New York Prime off Glades Road, just west of Military Trail (I'm actually serious. The place is wannabe central, but a few "real guys" wander in now and then ).
I'm right off Glades. Went to Dominick's last night. Not bad red snapper. I'll take a look at New York prime
Don't take my post wrong. I don't recommend the place. It's overpriced and the food ain't that great to begin with. I was just pointing out that it has become somewhat of a "hangout" lately.
Make sure that you try Tramonti in Delray Beach. Best Italian restaurant in Palm Beach County if you ask me. Only been there a couple years but they're owned by the same family as Angelo's of Mulberry Street. And they've been there for over a hundred years.
GREAT FOOD!!!!
Funny you say that. Asked my father in law and he goes "over priced and it ain't that good"
Should be an update on whether or not uncle joe is able to leave prison on bail today....will be interesting if they keep holding him with all those not guilty verdicts...
Reputed Philly mob boss Joe Ligambi denied bail before retrial
There's a shocker .
I don't know why they even bothered with the motion after the other guys were bound over. It stands to reason that, guilty or not guilty, if the subordinates in a criminal enterprise are denied bail, it's a foregone conclusion that the alleged boss is going to be denied also.
But I guess the defense has to go through the motions to inspire confidence in their clients. Plus, it allows them to pad the bill. Friggin' defense lawyers .
But I guess the defense has to go through the motions to inspire confidence in their clients. Plus, it allows them to pad the bill. Friggin' defense lawyers .
Pizzaboy you know the lawyer bills must be eating away at whatever money these guys had. Especially Borgesi who's been off the street for 14 years and most likely not bringing in much cash from whatever money he has working on the street. His lawyer said that they will be appealing the no bail decision and thats probably another 50k right there.
So between the last trial, the appeals on the bail and another upcoming trial wouldn't you think the lawyer tab must be 500k or more?
So between the last trial, the appeals on the bail and another upcoming trial wouldn't you think the lawyer tab must be 500k or more?
Without batting an eye. I know someone who went through a similar situation (Federal RICO and anti-trust case, two mistrials, two appeals), and the tab for three guys ran high into seven figures. This was in the southern district of New York about ten years ago. It would probably run near a million today.
No big deal he[Borgesi] allegedley stiffed Bruce Cutler,you can't tell me these guys have that kind of money laying around.Maybe they work out deals like if the lawyer gets you off think what that does for his business.Then again if he doesn't he may get stiffed and it doesn't help him very much.
No big deal he[Borgesi] allegedley stiffed Bruce Cutler,you can't tell me these guys have that kind of money laying around.Maybe they work out deals like if the lawyer gets you off think what that does for his business.Then again if he doesn't he may get stiffed and it doesn't help him very much.
Mob lawyers have more money on paper than mob bookies. And mob bookies typically have A LOT of monies owed to them .
No big deal he[Borgesi] allegedley stiffed Bruce Cutler,you can't tell me these guys have that kind of money laying around.Maybe they work out deals like if the lawyer gets you off think what that does for his business.Then again if he doesn't he may get stiffed and it doesn't help him very much.
Your right 22, i forgot all about that. George said Cutler didn't do shit for him so he told him what he could do with his lawyer fees. Did Cutler try to sue him? Or did he know it was a waste of time trying to collect?
Here's part of a old City Paper article where it's mentioned.
"Last Friday afternoon when the verdict was announced, defense attorney Bruce Cutler was mysteriously missing from the courtroom. Cutler is the very theatrical hotshot lawyer from New York who is best known for representing Gambino crime boss John Gotti.
In the Merlino trial Cutler represented Georgie Borgesi.
Several mob insiders told City Paper that Borgesi felt that Cutler wasn’t prepared for the case. Cutler’s fee was rumored to be $250,000, a percentage of which Borgesi paid upfront. But mob insiders said that Borgesi told Cutler he wouldn’t pay him the remainder of his fee and that Cutler left Philadelphia in a huff.
"Borgesi felt he paid Cutler what he was worth. He paid Cutler for his opening and his closing remarks," joked one friend of Borgesi’s during an interview in an Old City restaurant Friday night.
Borgesi’s friend claimed that some other defendants were so annoyed with Cutler’s theatrics in the courtroom that they were joking to friends and family, "Did you hear Bruce Cutler saved two guys from death row in New York? Yeah, he didn’t take their case!"
A prominent Philadelphia civil defense attorney who watched Cutler in the courtroom but asked to remain anonymous said, "Cutler is a great attorney because he is a great actor. Look at how the jury, the whole courtroom even, can’t keep their eyes off him when he’s cross-examining a witness. He is a very effective attorney, and he helped undermine the credibility of the government witnesses in this case."
The mob insiders praised the rest of the defense attorneys for their part, singling out Eddie Jacobs, Jack McMahon, Chris Warren and Emmett Fitzpatrick. "Jacobs led the charge," said Borgesi’s friend. "He did a great job and so did some of the others, but Cutler wasn’t prepared, and Georgie told him so."
Reached by telephone at his New York apartment Wednesday morning, Cutler said there was no truth to this story.
"Georgie Borgesi is a good man and I’ll always help him. We’re on great terms."
Cutler said he had to be in New York the day of the verdict and asked co-counsel Lou Natale to represent Borgesi that day.
Another Philadelphia defense attorney who has handled an number of "mob" cases, said "I heard that Borgesi won’t pay Cutler… and a lot of the wiseguys are laughing about it. But it sets a very bad precedent. Who wants a client that’s going to welsh on the fee? A lot of defense attorneys will think twice before they take a case from these guys now. Plus I think Cutler did a great job. And remember that there are a lot of Gambino members in federal prison. And when Borgesi runs into them, they may not think the whole thing is so funny."
Borgesi has a public defender so hes not paying, from what i understand in a major rico case they provide a top federal lawyer for defenses,
Ligambi i'm guessing is in 200k right now give or take,
capeci had an article about a new york guy trying to fight a murder who got a top ny lawyer 76k retainer and 12,500 a week for 10 weeks for a max of 200k for defense
Try happy hour at New York Prime off Glades Road, just west of Military Trail (I'm actually serious. The place is wannabe central, but a few "real guys" wander in now and then ).
I'm right off Glades. Went to Dominick's last night. Not bad red snapper. I'll take a look at New York prime
Don't take my post wrong. I don't recommend the place. It's overpriced and the food ain't that great to begin with. I was just pointing out that it has become somewhat of a "hangout" lately.
Make sure that you try Tramonti in Delray Beach. Best Italian restaurant in Palm Beach County if you ask me. Only been there a couple years but they're owned by the same family as Angelo's of Mulberry Street. And they've been there for over a hundred years.
GREAT FOOD!!!!
Signore Abeetz. Thanks a lot. Everyone loved it. Father in law is hooked. He lives down here six months out of the year. Never knew before. Salude
Signore Abeetz. Thanks a lot. Everyone loved it. Father in law is hooked. He lives down here six months out of the year. Never knew before. Salude
My pleasure, kid. Tell the old man if he wants I can direct him to a massage parlor in Boynton that will only show up as a "consulting fee" on his credit card .
But seriously, I'm glad you guys enjoyed it. When you find a decent Italian place in Florida, you really have to stick with it because there aren't too many (but a lot more than there were twenty years ago when you got egg noodles and ketchup if you ordered spaghetti marinara ).
Signore Abeetz. Thanks a lot. Everyone loved it. Father in law is hooked. He lives down here six months out of the year. Never knew before. Salude
My pleasure, kid. Tell the old man if he wants I can direct him to a massage parlor in Boynton that will only show up as a "consulting fee" on his credit card .
But seriously, I'm glad you guys enjoyed it. When you find a decent Italian place in Florida, you really have to stick with it because there aren't too many (but a lot more than there were twenty years ago when you got egg noodles and ketchup if you ordered spaghetti marinara ).
This philly thing is a mess if u ask me. Even junior got bail after all those hung juries. Borgesi has to be distraught.
To be fair, jr's bail was over $10M in collateral put up which was a record for a criminal defendant at the time.
I dont think Uncle Joe has that kind of money to throw around.
I agree, i really doubt Ligambi has that kind of cash. I'm just guessing here but i don't think the guys in Philly are generating that kind of big money. More like grinding it out with the shark money and sports betting. But even the money from that is way down from the old days. A couple of those guys were picked up on wiretaps saying basically the same thing and even Nicodemo was caught on tape in the Borgata investigation telling Micali the wolves are starving or some shit like that.
This philly thing is a mess if u ask me. Even junior got bail after all those hung juries. Borgesi has to be distraught.
To be fair, jr's bail was over $10M in collateral put up which was a record for a criminal defendant at the time.
I dont think Uncle Joe has that kind of money to throw around.
I'm just guessing here but i don't think the guys in Philly are generating that kind of big money. More like grinding it out with the shark money and sports betting. But even the money from that is way down from the old days. A couple of those guys were picked up on wiretaps saying basically the same thing and even Nicodemo was caught on tape in the Borgata investigation telling Micali the wolves are starving or some shit like that.
Agreed.
Here's Gary Battaglini's take on the Philly mob's finances:
"It's a broke mob, that's the bottom line, and it's gotten worse every year," he said in one conversation."Broke, broke."
In another, he complained that gambling customers had gotten more sophisticated and state-run casino gambling was eating into the bookmaking market. Eventually, he predicted, sports betting, like the lottery/numbers racket, would be legitimized.
"Everybody's got computers," he said. "Everybody's making moves. It ain't like it used to be...You got to run it like it's a business...You better watch what you take. You got to limit people."
Remember this fellas. And I know a lot of you guys don't have the first hand experience and that's ok. But don't believe everything these guys say on taps and what the FBI says. Not saying its all untrue but.......
A guy I know that I am close with tells everyone he's broke. Meanwhile he's making a killing. A lot of people cry poverty to keep the wolves at bay and so clients don't think your so rich they don't have to pay
Not saying I'm right in Gary's case I'm just sayin. Don't believe half of what you see and none of what you hear. Or something like that.
Feds don't think you're earning maybe they leave you alone
It can also be argued that would make you a bigger target for the feds if they know your not earning. That would tell them your probably pissed your not earning, and/or have a grudge against some of the guys that are earning and thus you might be a candidate to flip for the government.
All speculation. U could be right. Just saying don't believe everything you hear that's all. These guys are all liars and con men.
You would have to be a fool if you think their broke. You know how many ppl are betting sports in south Philly
I made 65k last year on the books. I bet Borgesi made more than that sitting on his ass in that cell. It may not be what it was but trust me they are making money. Joey got out and looks to be doing ok for someone in jail that long.
A lot of it is just talk
Mind you....I could be wrong I'm just trying to look at it from another angle.
All speculation. U could be right. Just saying don't believe everything you hear that's all. These guys are all liars and con men.
oh yea absolutely
this reminds me of the skins tapes where ligambi told a story about beeps, see below:
"He told a story about Vincent "Beeps" Centorino, a down-on-his-luck member of the North Jersey faction of the Philadelphia mob who, Ligambi said, "was selling cakes out of the trunk of his car."
"I can't make three cents with him," added Joseph "Scoops" Licata, 71, a mob capo to whom the aging Centorino reported.
Licata, a codefendant in the pending case, drew more laughs when he said, "We'll run a benefit for him."
In that same conversation, Ligambi made an aside about Centorino's girlfriend, describing her as "the broken-down broad he was going out with in Florida," and complained about how Centorino had cornered him at a mob gathering in South Philadelphia.
"At the Christmas party we had, he was sitting next to me," Ligambi said. "He was giving me a ditty how broke he is.""
Remember this fellas. And I know a lot of you guys don't have the first hand experience and that's ok. But don't believe everything these guys say on taps and what the FBI says. Not saying its all untrue but.......
A guy I know that I am close with tells everyone he's broke. Meanwhile he's making a killing. A lot of people cry poverty to keep the wolves at bay and so clients don't think your so rich they don't have to pay
Not saying I'm right in Gary's case I'm just sayin. Don't believe half of what you see and none of what you hear. Or something like that.
Works the other way too. Everyone wants to be a fuckin gangster. Get their paycheck, cash it and take a pic of it.... "I be on da trap 24-7 biatch! Broke ass niggas be hatin!" Or worse, tax refunds....
I would like to take this opportunity with my 666th post to put a hex on Andy Catnip! May your fantasies be filled with men! Oh wait!
Remember this fellas. And I know a lot of you guys don't have the first hand experience and that's ok. But don't believe everything these guys say on taps and what the FBI says. Not saying its all untrue but.......
A guy I know that I am close with tells everyone he's broke. Meanwhile he's making a killing. A lot of people cry poverty to keep the wolves at bay and so clients don't think your so rich they don't have to pay
Not saying I'm right in Gary's case I'm just sayin. Don't believe half of what you see and none of what you hear. Or something like that.
Works the other way too. Everyone wants to be a fuckin gangster. Get their paycheck, cash it and take a pic of it.... "I be on da trap 24-7 biatch! Broke ass niggas be hatin!" Or worse, tax refunds....
I would like to take this opportunity with my 666th post to put a hex on Andy Catnip! May your fantasies be filled with men! Oh wait!
I'm just talking more savvy guys. Not these newcomers thinking they sold a dime bag and they are niño brown. I get your point though
Don't mobsters hate black culture? The whole "I be shootin niggas and gettin bithes" thing? I mean when you look it at they do it too just in a different way. They don't rap about it in songs but people like Gotti did exactly what guys like Lil Wayne talk about in the songs.
Remember this fellas. And I know a lot of you guys don't have the first hand experience and that's ok. But don't believe everything these guys say on taps and what the FBI says. Not saying its all untrue but.......
A guy I know that I am close with tells everyone he's broke. Meanwhile he's making a killing. A lot of people cry poverty to keep the wolves at bay and so clients don't think your so rich they don't have to pay
Not saying I'm right in Gary's case I'm just sayin. Don't believe half of what you see and none of what you hear. Or something like that.
Originally Posted By: cheech
Remember this fellas. And I know a lot of you guys don't have the first hand experience and that's ok. But don't believe everything these guys say on taps and what the FBI says. Not saying its all untrue but.......
A guy I know that I am close with tells everyone he's broke. Meanwhile he's making a killing. A lot of people cry poverty to keep the wolves at bay and so clients don't think your so rich they don't have to pay
Not saying I'm right in Gary's case I'm just sayin. Don't believe half of what you see and none of what you hear. Or something like that.
But I guess the defense has to go through the motions to inspire confidence in their clients. Plus, it allows them to pad the bill. Friggin' defense lawyers .
Pizzaboy you know the lawyer bills must be eating away at whatever money these guys had. Especially Borgesi who's been off the street for 14 years and most likely not bringing in much cash from whatever money he has working on the street. His lawyer said that they will be appealing the no bail decision and thats probably another 50k right there.
So between the last trial, the appeals on the bail and another upcoming trial wouldn't you think the lawyer tab must be 500k or more?
I hear ya I was dating a cougar at the time of my surrender I was just a cub doing real estate for her ...She offers to put up one of her properties and my Lawyer ..Was like NO and by the way FAMILY ONLY! (DOOR SLAMS)
As sentencing looms, reputed mobster's lawyer derides "glorified gambling case"
Joe Slobodzian - Inquirer reporter May 30, 2013
Joseph “Mousie” Massimino, the reputed underboss of the Philadelphia mob, next week is scheduled to be the first defendant sentenced in the wake of a historic three-month trial of local mobsters. Massimino was one of three men convicted of racketeering conspiracy, and given his criminal history, the 63-year-old could get whacked fairly hard by U.S. District Judge Eduardo Robreno.
His lawyer, Joseph Santaguida, fired the first broadside in that battle this week, arguing in a memo to the judge that Massimino deserves between 57 and 71 months in prison, a punishment in line with the 57 months reputed capo Martin "Marty" Angelina got last fall after pleading guilty to the same conspiracy.
Santaguida contends that despite his past convictions, Massimino shouldn’t qualify for a stiffer term as “a career offender” because jurors in the most recent case didn’t find him guilty of a specific crime of violence, one of the three prongs necessary for the enhancement. They convicted him of the conspiracy, but deadlocked on three underlying accusations of running an illegal gambling business.
Santaguida conceded that Massimino was indeed guilty of illegal gambling offenses, but rehashed his contention that the crime didn’t amount to more than that.
“The fact is that this case is nothing more than a glorified gambling case,” the lawyer wrote. “The government is forced to blow these acts out of proportion because they wasted millions of tax dollars and resources.”
Prosecutors haven’t yet filed their sentencing memo, but they will no doubt see things differently.
In a July 2011 motion to keep Massimino jailed without bail, Assistant U.S. Attorney John S. Han wrote that Massimino had been arrested 30 times, had three prior felony drug convictions and was looking at a minimum of 17 years in prison if he was convicted on all counts.
"Through a panoply of crimes committed over a lifetime, undeterred by frequent periods of incarceration, Massimino has abundantly demonstrated his unwillingness to obey the law,” he wrote.
The sentencing hearing is set for Wednesday morning.
Don't they always say if you plead out you get a lesser sentence?It wouldn't make sense to plead out and get 57-71 months if you can get the same thing if you take a shot at a trial.It's like what do you have to lose.I mean if somebody told Angelina hey take a shot with a trial and if you lose you stll will only get the 57-71 months and credit for timed serve.
Don't they always say if you plead out you get a lesser sentence?It wouldn't make sense to plead out and get 57-71 months if you can get the same thing if you take a shot at a trial.It's like what do you have to lose.I mean if somebody told Angelina hey take a shot with a trial and if you lose you stll will only get the 57-71 months and credit for timed serve.
The judge will use it as a point of reference. Keep in mind, Angelina pleaded guilty to racketeering conspiracy, extortion and operating video-poker machines while Moussie was only found guilty of racketeering conspiracy.
Remember this fellas. And I know a lot of you guys don't have the first hand experience and that's ok. But don't believe everything these guys say on taps and what the FBI says. Not saying its all untrue but.......
A guy I know that I am close with tells everyone he's broke. Meanwhile he's making a killing. A lot of people cry poverty to keep the wolves at bay and so clients don't think your so rich they don't have to pay
Not saying I'm right in Gary's case I'm just sayin. Don't believe half of what you see and none of what you hear. Or something like that.
I agree, if you let people know you are balling it big, you get a bullet in your head and someone takes over your businesses.
I think guys like Uncle Joe would hang it up if they were only making $5-10k a month, more like $20-30K..
I think guys like Uncle Joe would hang it up if they were only making $5-10k a month, more like $20-30K..
5 to 10k a month you might as well work a legit job where every time someone knocks at your front door your not wondering if this is the big pinch. If Ligambi wasn't bring in at least 500k a year then he should of lit a fire under his guys and told them to start bringing in some real money. Maybe send some extra tax collectors back to the street to shake down the guys who are making out. Even 500k for a mob boss seems embarrassingly low to me. I guess thats the current reality though.
I think guys like Uncle Joe would hang it up if they were only making $5-10k a month, more like $20-30K..
5 to 10k a month you might as well work a legit job where every time someone knocks at your front door your not wondering if this is the big pinch. If Ligambi wasn't bring in at least 500k a year then he should of lit a fire under his guys and told them to start bringing in some real money. Maybe send some extra tax collectors back to the street to shake down the guys who are making out. Even 500k for a mob boss seems embarrassingly low to me. I guess thats the current reality though.
I think 500K a year is decent for any boss outside NYC.
Obviously it's impossible to get an exact figure. However, we do know a few things. JMA was estimated to be grossing at least $1 million a year. But it could have been two or three times that. Figuring conservatively, after the standard 50/50 split with the business owners, that would conceivably leave $500k to be split between Ligambi, Massimino, and Staino. One assumes Ligambi got the biggest cut. He also had his $50k a year no-show job with Top Job disposal, as well as interests in real estate and a towing company. And, of course, there's whatever tribute he received, as boss, from family members and associates.
I would be extremely surprised if he made more than half a mil. And he was greedy as fuck. He collected a point on every shy loan in philly! He made a lot of guys angry! You have 50k on the street, and your barely getting by, your captain bankrolled it all for a point and u keep 50k a year, pass up 25. Now uncle joe wants 1%? He got that on EVERYBODY. Captains to associates like Louis Monacello. He stole money from borgesi, who is his relative somehow. While he was in prison! Hes a greedy fuck who obviously didnt have much to begin with. In comparison, idk how hes doing now but Joey Merlino paid millions out of pocket for his and his crews legal defense.
Sentencings delayed for Mousie, others in mob case
John P. Martin June 4, 2013
Mousie must wait another month for Judgment Day.
For the second time in a month, a federal judge has rescheduled the sentencing hearing for Joseph "Mousie" Massimino, the reputed underboss of the Philadelphia mob. Massimino, 63, was scheduled to be sentenced on racketeering conspiracy charges this Wednesday, but U.S. District Judge Eduardo Robreno has pushed the hearing back until July 11.
As we reported here last week, Massimino's lawyer believes he deserves less than six years in prison after being convicted in the marathon trial that ended with mixed verdicts earlier this year. Prosecutors have yet to publicly file their sentencing memo, but are expected to argue for well more than a decade in prison, especially given Massimino's long criminal history.
Robreno also rescheduled the sentencing hearings of the only two other defendants jurors convicted of the conspiracy. Reputed mob associate Gary Battaligni is set to be sentenced on July 12. Alleged soldier Damion Canalichio will follow four days later, on July 16.
Reputed mob boss Joseph "Uncle Joe" Ligambi and his nephew and alleged capo, George "Georgie" Borgesi, are still on track for an October retrial after the jury deadlocked on the conspiracy charge against them.
I just read a news item I must have missed.Ligambi's lawyer is now considered court-appointed and the judge agreed to that so now the taxpayers are basically paying for his defense.I love the lawyer says ''my client went broke''and I don't want to leave him hanging.That's a good one but I guess its easy to prove your broke because its a cash business,so there's nothing on the books or in your name.
I just read a news item I must have missed.Ligambi's lawyer is now considered court-appointed and the judge agreed to that so now the taxpayers are basically paying for his defense.I love the lawyer says ''my client went broke''and I don't want to leave him hanging.That's a good one but I guess its easy to prove your broke because its a cash business,so there's nothing on the books or in your name.
Robreno is going to stick it up Massiminos ass. This is the same judge who wouldent grant Borgesi bail after he beat a conspiracy trial AFTER he already did 11 years. Same guy who wouldent let Ligambi out AFTER he beats the case. For a guy like Massimino who admitted guilt? Get the fuck outta here; Massimino better bend over and lube up. Im thinking 10 years at a minimum.
Plus the fact it is all the respect factor..in the middle of the court he said get my martini ready were coming home...The article was funny everyone here saw it.. And it says everyone in court heard him.. I mean Comeon mannn keep your mouth shut..Just shows some of these guys are punks..
Fuck respect for the court. Guys gonna get 10 years for video poker machines. Why? Because its immoral? Funny, I didn't hear all this talk of immorality when they are raking in huge tax dollars from state sponsored casinos. Its about the money. They want their [BadWord], the Gov is just another Capo in the structure looking for their piece.
Fuck respect for the court. Guys gonna get 10 years for video poker machines. Why? Because its immoral? Funny, I didn't hear all this talk of immorality when they are raking in huge tax dollars from state sponsored casinos. Its about the money. They want their [BadWord], the Gov is just another Capo in the structure looking for their piece.
Somebody please comment on the building collapsing in center city... wtf?? I know this sounds awful but hopefully it will stimulate the economy and people will finish up construction projects more efficiently.
Somebody please comment on the building collapsing in center city... wtf?? I know this sounds awful but hopefully it will stimulate the economy and people will finish up construction projects more efficiently.
I read the building was owned by a Richard Basciano who is or was a big porn guy in NYC and he also has been id'd as an associate of the Gambinos in the past.
Somebody please comment on the building collapsing in center city... wtf?? I know this sounds awful but hopefully it will stimulate the economy and people will finish up construction projects more efficiently.
I read the building was owned by a Richard Basciano who is or was a big porn guy in NYC and he also has been id'd as an associate of the Gambinos in the past.
Yea I said earlier I didn't agree wit lagambi an mousie scaring tony the poker machine guy into selling low.. kinda not right....but ten years is way too much time..But the only place in the world you gotta be PC is the court room.. In case you haven't noticed my name is marine ..yea this grunt seen many court rooms in his time im far from PC.. And Guess what the guy Gaton luchebelo who pled guilty and was honest done 2 years already.. and probally only got a 1.5-2yrs left good time...
At marine. First let me say I wasn't meaning to disrespect you, it's just my frustration with the situation. I mean, what other criminals in the us are treated like this? It's poker machines! I'm not saying they are good guys, but if they were black, Russian, puerto or Irish they would be getting half the time; u know it and i know it. But when you throw a vowel on the end of a guys name you multiply the time by 3 or 4. It's annoying and blatantly discriminatory, and I'm not just saying that because I'm half Italian.
Gaeton got less time because its his first felony. Yes, partially because he pled it out, but also because its his first. They are going to hammer massimino because he's a "career offender", meanwhile you got child enslavement rapists getting to post bond on there own recognizance.
they said the guy who was working on destruction of the building was high on marijuana... loll! yeah big surprise... and the missing middle eastern/Indian man...did they finally find him under a pile of adult videos??
"Mobsters Joseph "Mousie" Massimino and Damion Canalichio have to wait at least another month before finding out their fate, but the convicted wiseguys are going to go down swinging.
"Lawyers for both Philadelphia crime figures have filed motions challenging pre-sentence reports that suggest each should be sentenced to from 17 to 21 years in prison for their February convictions on racketeering conspiracy charges. Their lawyers argue the guidelines should be in the four- to six-year range."
"Their sentencings, postponed for a second time, are now scheduled for July."
Feds want Joseph "Mousie" Massimino and Damion Canalichio sentenced to 17 to 21 years each.
For Poker Machines.
What. A. Joke.
At least in Mousie's case, he has been shown to be a career criminal. So, it's not just this latest case but the total sum of his history.
Who fucking cares. Every state official from CA to NY (ie powerball bullshit) should be up for 17 to 21 years if we are finally going to stop playing the hypocritical gambling is illegal game.
Feds want Joseph "Mousie" Massimino and Damion Canalichio sentenced to 17 to 21 years each.
For Poker Machines.
What. A. Joke.
At least in Mousie's case, he has been shown to be a career criminal. So, it's not just this latest case but the total sum of his history.
Alternatively it could be argued that prior history should not factor into sentencing as his previous time was him paying off his debt to society. That should, it could be argued, square the ledger.
Conversely you're in effect saying he must be re-punished for previous transgressions.
And at the end of the day, whatever your position, prior's or not it simply boils down to Poker machines. And 15+ yrs is, lets be honest, ridiculous.
If you read the full article it sounds like Borgesi has a decent shot getting his racketeering charge thrown out because he was found not guilty on 14 out of 14 charges which his lawyer claims is the basis for the racketeering charge. And Ligambi wants the judge to keep out all the evidence from the charges he beat at the first trial.
I'm not a lawyer but i can see their point of view on this.
Mousies going to get screwed, my guess is at least 10 to 12 maybe even 15 years with all his priors. Canalichio has a bunch of priors too so he could be looking at doing another 10 years. But i'm just guessing, should be interesting to see the final numbers.
Yes. 15 years for video poker. This judge should recuse himself for the obvious anti italian bias he has shown. The fact that he didnt let Borgesi out on bail after he fucking beat the case, did 12 years on a prior WITH ZERO VIOLENCE IN THE INDICTMENT is not only illogical, its personally repulsive.
And anthony staino got 57 months for what? He made a business investment with the undercover Fed for his the feds alleged business (which didnt exist). The feds set the whole thing up. Isnt that fucking entrapment? How is that loansharking? At best it should be attempted loansharking!
Alternatively it could be argued that prior history should not factor into sentencing as his previous time was him paying off his debt to society. That should, it could be argued, square the ledger.
Conversely you're in effect saying he must be re-punished for previous transgressions.
And at the end of the day, whatever your position, prior's or not it simply boils down to Poker machines. And 15+ yrs is, lets be honest, ridiculous.
You're forgetting the racketeering factor, i.e. he's a high-level member of an ongoing criminal enterprise. So, no, it doesn't really boil down to just video poker machines.
In the larger picture, I'm all for increased penalties if people prove to not learn their lesson the first, second, third, etc. time around. It shows they're non-reformable and insist on continuing to be a drain on society. They deserve no sympathy.
Feds want Joseph "Mousie" Massimino and Damion Canalichio sentenced to 17 to 21 years each.
For Poker Machines.
What. A. Joke.
At least in Mousie's case, he has been shown to be a career criminal. So, it's not just this latest case but the total sum of his history.
Who fucking cares. Every state official from CA to NY (ie powerball bullshit) should be up for 17 to 21 years if we are finally going to stop playing the hypocritical gambling is illegal game.
I see comercials for casinos, lottery, powerball, and other gambling run by state and private entities. Every day on radio, television, even highway billboards. HIm having record should not factor in to the point where a harmless crime, one that is practically legal, gets him a substantial sentence. The previous record should be considered, but not to point of making the actual crime committed seem worse.
You're forgetting the racketeering factor, i.e. he's a high-level member of an ongoing criminal enterprise. So, no, it doesn't really boil down to just video poker machines.
What is racketeering? Its a conspiracy. Simply. Its coercion with others to commit a crime.
Now (IMO) the system mistakenly views racketeering as the primary misconduct not the crime itself. Racketeering is merely the systematic application of the crime.
Its application of the crime in an organised, systematic way.
Now this behaviour is obviously much more socially detracting than individual non organised, random breaches but its simply an application of the crime.
My point being, its the crime itself which is the presiding factor.
Eg: You can have Racketeering in Poker Machines, and Racketeering in murder.
So was it organised? Yes. Was it in aid of a criminal enterprise? Yes. Was it Racketeering? Yes.
But was it just Poker machines? .....Yes.
Originally Posted By: IvyLeague
In the larger picture, I'm all for increased penalties if people prove to not learn their lesson the first, second, third, etc. time around. It shows they're non-reformable and insist on continuing to be a drain on society. They deserve no sympathy.
That indicates 2 things:
1. That a sentence is not punishment of a crime?
And
2. You dont believe that prison reforms criminals?
1. It is, otherwise whats the point.
And 2. 'Correctional facility' is the greatest ironical name in modern history.
(PS Not picking on you Ivy. Just enjoy a seasoned debate )
I guess my point is whats right is more relevant than whats the Law.
What is racketeering? Its a conspiracy. Simply. Its coercion with others to commit a crime.
Now (IMO) the system mistakenly views racketeering as the primary misconduct not the crime itself. Racketeering is merely the systematic application of the crime.
Its application of the crime in an organised, systematic way.
Now this behaviour is obviously much more socially detracting than individual non organised, random breaches but its simply an application of the crime.
My point being, its the crime itself which is the presiding factor.
Eg: You can have Racketeering in Poker Machines, and Racketeering in murder.
So was it organised? Yes. Was it in aid of a criminal enterprise? Yes. Was it Racketeering? Yes.
But was it just Poker machines? .....Yes.
You seem to understand the theory of RICO, you apparently just don't agree with it. It doesn't matter so much that the individual predicate charges may seem relatively harmless to some people. The fact that it's a criminal enterprise, and Ligambi was the leader of it, provides sufficient grounds for stiffer penalties.
Quote:
2. You dont believe that prison reforms criminals?
Some it does, others it doesn't. It's obvious what category Massimino falls into.
Federal prosecutors want to retry mob boss Joseph "Uncle Joe" Ligambi and his nephew George Borgesi on racketeering conspiracy charges built around the same evidence that a jury largely rejected in the mobsters' first trial.
In a motions filed late yesterday, prosecutors argued that the issues of collateral estoppel and double-jeopardy do not apply to the conspiracy charge that is at the heart of the case. A jury in February could not decide on that charge against Ligambi and Borgesi.
Four other defendants were found guilty and one was acquitted.
U.S. District Judge Eduardo Robreno is expected to hold a hearing on motions filed by lawyers for both defendants seeking to limit or eliminate charges that can be used in a retrial set for Oct. 15. In fact, Borgesi's lawyer, Christopher Warren, has argued that the conspiracy charge against his client -- the one remaining count for which he is to be retried -- should be dismissed.
Borgesi, 50, was found not guilty of 13 counts related to gambling and loansharking. Warren argued that the jury verdict on those counts undermined the remaining conspiracy charge.
Borgesi
But Assistant U.S. Attorney Frank Labor, in briefs filed literally at the 11th hour -- yesterday was the deadline for the government to respond and the motions were filed close to midnight -- argued that both Warren and Ligambi's lawyer, Edwin Jocobs Jr., had misconstrued the legal issues in the case.
The doctrine of collateral estoppel "does not bar the admission of evidence of other offenses, including acquitted conduct, to prove the manner and means of a RICO conspiracy," Labor wrote.
The prosecution contends that it can use the same evidence that was presented in the first trial, including evidence tied to counts that resulted in not guilty verdicts. While layered in legal citations and Appellate Court decisions, the prosecution is arguing in essence that conspirators don't have to commit the crimes in order to be found guilty of conspiring to commit those crimes.
In asking that both Ligambi's and Borgesi's motions be denied, prosecutors said what the government has to prove is that both defendants played in a role in a racketeering conspiracy in which:
(1) Two or more persons agreed to conduct or participate in the conduct of the affairs of the Philadelphia (La Cosa Nostra) Family through a pattern of racketeering activity or the collection of unlawful debt.
(2) The defendants were party to the agreement.
(3) They joined the agreement knowing of its objective of conducting the affairs of the Philadelphia LCN Family through a pattern of racketeering activity or collection of unlawful debt and with the intent of joining with one other conspirator to achieve that objective.
A court ruling in the government's favor would allow prosecutors to use basically the same evidence and the same witnesses in the retrial that the government used in a three-month trial that began last October. Those witnesses would likely include Louis "Bent Finger Lou" Monacello, 43, a key Borgesi associate who testified at length about a gambling and loansharking operation he said he ran for Borgesi after Borgesi was jailed in 2000 in an unrelated racketeering case.
Monacello also testified that Ligambi was the boss of the operation.
Bent Finger Lou (R)
In fact, Borgesi was behind bars serving a 14-year sentence during most of the period covered by the conspiracy charge. Warren had argued that the jury's not guilty verdicts on specific gambling and loansharking charges showed that the jury had rejected the prosecution argument that Borgesi had conspired with Monacello.
Labor argued that the verdict did not necessarily support that argument. He also said that Borgesi had conspired with Ligambi and Anthony Staino, another mob leader.
The prosecution contends that it should not be precluded "from introducing evidence relating to the offenses charged in the substantive counts as circumstantial proof of the manner and means, or overt acts, of the RICO conspiracy," even if a jury returned not guilty verdicts on those substantive counts.
It appeared the jury at the first trial wrestled with the conspiracy charge. The panel deliberated for a staggering 21 days before bringing back a mixed and confusing verdict. Only five of the 61 counts in the case resulted in guilty verdicts. Three of the seven defendants were convicted of racketeering conspiracy. (A fourth subsequently pleaded guilty).
The jury found the defendants not guilty of 46 other counts and was undecided -- on hung -- on 11 charges.
Two of the charges on which the jury could not decide were the racketeering conspiracy counts against Ligambi, 73, and Borgesi. In addition, Ligambi faces two gambling counts and a tampering with a witness charge on which the jury also hung. He was acquitted of five other criminal counts.
Both Ligambi and Borgesi have been denied bail pending the retrial.
Four other defendants in the case, Staino, mob underboss Joseph "Mousie" Massimino, mob soldier Damion Canalichio and mob associate Gary Battaglini are to be sentenced in July before Robreno.
Joseph "Scoops" Licata, a North Jersey-based mob capo, was found not guilty and released after the trial. Six defendants in the case pleaded guilty prior to trial.
George Anastasia can be reached at George@bigtrial.net. POSTED BY GEORGE ANASTASIA AT 12:48 PM TRIAL: PHILADELPHIA MOB TRIAL
These prosecutors are some ball breakers arent they!
You ain't kidding. But i think Borgesi is gonna walk. Uncle Joe might not be as lucky though, he should probably cut a plea deal right now if possible.
Summarization of prosectuors argument. "Your honor, the constitution doesn't apply to rico. Besides, these mob guys are scum and belong in jail anyways."
@Giancarlo: If Borgesi walks, it will be after a trial. Judge Robreno is SUPER CONSERVATIVE on mob cases, there aint no way he is taking the defendants side on this.
@Giancarlo: If Borgesi walks, it will be after a trial. Judge Robreno is SUPER CONSERVATIVE on mob cases, there aint no way he is taking the defendants side on this.
I agree, i think he beats it at trial. I really do.
I may be bringing up older posts but looks like nicodemo is holding on and looking to challenge this thing rather than flipping. Guess he could always still cut a deal before trial but we are about 8 months since the crime - am I the only one on here who is a little surprised ?
As far as Nicodemo goes. I dont think hes going to flip. He could beat the state trial then the feds can pick it up and re-try him. Its a long process. Phil leonetti waited until after he was convicted and sentenced to 40 years to rat on his uncle.
RATTING ON mobsters can get you killed. Wearing a wire is risking your life.
So when a government informant is allegedly gunned down by a reputed mob soldier in South Philadelphia, it sounds like an open-and-shut case.
But this is Philly. There are plenty of ways to die.
Sources tell the Daily News that Gino DiPietro, a reformed drug dealer who was murdered in December outside his home, had previously been a confidential informant - and had helped put his younger cousin in prison by wearing a body wire.
His cousin is Victor DiPietro, a construction worker whom law-enforcement officials had once described as a mob associate. He insists he's gone legit after 3 1/2 years in prison as a result of Gino DiPietro's cooperation with the feds in 2005.
Anthony Nicodemo, who organized-crime investigators say is a "made" member of the mob, has been charged with first-degree murder in Gino DiPietro's death and is due in court next week for a pretrial hearing.
Sounds like a textbook mob hit, right? Maybe not.
Victor DiPietro says it's a bizarre coincidence. And police think he might be right.
"I can't wrap my head around it. I have no idea whatsoever how this whole entire thing transpired," DiPietro said yesterday.
DiPietro, 31, said he felt betrayed when he learned that Gino had set him up.
"Since it was my family member, it hurt a lot. But did I wish harm to him? No," he said. "Did he deserve this? No."
Sources say Gino DiPietro, 50, was busted on a cocaine-distribution charge around 2004, shortly after serving 6 1/2 years in a 1997 drug case. Facing major prison time, the father of two sons flipped and agreed to wear a wire to take down his cousin, the sources said.
Gino DiPietro's cooperation had not been publicly disclosed because his case concluded with a sealed judgment in 2009. But after he was killed, a probation officer filed a court document in January that indicated that Gino DiPietro had received only house arrest and probation on his second drug arrest - a slap-on-the-wrist sentence for a repeat offender.
DiPietro had kept his secret from his family, according to his girlfriend, Alisa Lord. They got engaged the night before he was killed.
"If he was embarrassed about something he did, he's not going to tell me," Lord said.
Police have looked at the mob angle in the DiPietro case, but so far haven't found any indicators that he was killed because he was an informant. A police source said the motive for the shooting could be as simple as a street argument - two South Philly tough guys who wouldn't back down.
"He must've gotten somebody upset," Victor DiPietro said. "But it had nothing to do with me."
Gino DiPietro appeared to have turned his life around, and there was no evidence that he was involved in drug dealing at the time of his death, according to a law-enforcement official. Lord said he was delivering parts for BMW and Mini Cooper.
"He did straighten out," she said. "I lived it. I saw it, firsthand."
Victor DiPietro, who found John "Johnny Gongs" Casasanto shot in an unsolved 2003 mob hit, said he once ran with guys with mob connections, but not anymore.
"I go to work every day," he said. "I don't jaywalk."
Somebody please comment on the building collapsing in center city... wtf?? I know this sounds awful but hopefully it will stimulate the economy and people will finish up construction projects more efficiently.
I read the building was owned by a Richard Basciano who is or was a big porn guy in NYC and he also has been id'd as an associate of the Gambinos in the past.
I have also come up with a shit ton more pictures and just found out some either interesting or coincidental information yesterday, but I wanted to see if anyone else has heard anything yet...
I have also come up with a shit ton more pictures and just found out some either interesting or coincidental information yesterday, but I wanted to see if anyone else has heard anything yet...
There's a rat in uncle joes camp.. Will be on Fox to tonight. Feds r going to ruin easter for sp
I have also come up with a shit ton more pictures and just found out some either interesting or coincidental information yesterday, but I wanted to see if anyone else has heard anything yet...
What's up. Post the pics and hit us with some gossip
Anthony Borgesi got arrested for vehicular homicide? and who could of taken down the article that fast? I know the Borgesi family might have a little pull in the streets but I doubt they can take articles off the internet about themselves lol.
@Cheech- Tomorrow I plan on posting the pics i got and discussing some of the stuff I found out and have been hearing from a few people. But I have a shit ton of recent Merlino photos plus a few recents of Stevie and Sonny Mazzone. Maybe a few others I have to check. I kind of wanted to see if anyone heard anything on the streets lately and see if anything matches up with what I have been hearing. I guess we will find out soon enough... But now I really want to know if its true about Ant Borgesi and also I want to know why the one poster said something about theres a rat in Ligambi's crew and they were gonna have a bad easter. Easter is over, and I would like to know if something really happened or if the guy was just bullshitting.
@Cheech- Tomorrow I plan on posting the pics i got and discussing some of the stuff I found out and have been hearing from a few people. But I have a shit ton of recent Merlino photos plus a few recents of Stevie and Sonny Mazzone. Maybe a few others I have to check. I kind of wanted to see if anyone heard anything on the streets lately and see if anything matches up with what I have been hearing. I guess we will find out soon enough... But now I really want to know if its true about Ant Borgesi and also I want to know why the one poster said something about theres a rat in Ligambi's crew and they were gonna have a bad easter. Easter is over, and I would like to know if something really happened or if the guy was just bullshitting.
Anthony Borgesi got arrested for vehicular homicide? and who could of taken down the article that fast? I know the Borgesi family might have a little pull in the streets but I doubt they can take articles off the internet about themselves lol.
Supposedly he was on his way back from Atlantic City he's a big guy he got banged up he's in Cooper Medical in NJ
@Cheech- Tomorrow I plan on posting the pics i got and discussing some of the stuff I found out and have been hearing from a few people. But I have a shit ton of recent Merlino photos plus a few recents of Stevie and Sonny Mazzone. Maybe a few others I have to check. I kind of wanted to see if anyone heard anything on the streets lately and see if anything matches up with what I have been hearing. I guess we will find out soon enough... But now I really want to know if its true about Ant Borgesi and also I want to know why the one poster said something about theres a rat in Ligambi's crew and they were gonna have a bad easter. Easter is over, and I would like to know if something really happened or if the guy was just bullshitting.
Seriously what's going on with this crap,posting A.borgesi got charged with vehicular homicide and now it ''disappears''.Something is going down Easter Sun.,what would that be the ham people eat.Who puts this stuff out there,site is getting polluted with this crap.
22 I live in Philly and have not heard a word, you would figure it would be big news or at least news so I'm calling BS and if it were true we would be hearing it from guys like you, Jose or Handsome Stevie.
Pedrone and all - that story is bullshit about AB .. Most I can say is follow the genuine posters .. From a philly poster I haven't heard anything major recently .. Wish I had more but it's been quiet .. Will keep you guys posted
Anthony Borgesi got arrested for vehicular homicide? and who could of taken down the article that fast? I know the Borgesi family might have a little pull in the streets but I doubt they can take articles off the internet about themselves lol.
Supposedly he was on his way back from Atlantic City he's a big guy he got banged up he's in Cooper Medical in NJ
Anyway, I found out Sonny Mazzone took a trip to Florida the week before easter. I know Florida is a big state and all but with Merlino just gettin off parole, it sounds about right that Steve Mazzone would send his brother out there to touch base with Joey. I even have pics of Sonny in Florida, I just cant seem to get the damn pics on here but i will figure it out.
George A wrote on gangland news today and this is what he wrote about The scarfo guys getting out.... "The Scarfo group includes brothers Phil and Frank Narducci, Anthony and Joe Pungitore and Nicky Milano. Jailed on racketeering charges that brought down the Scarfo organization in 1988, those seasoned mobsters could become a force in the underworld. Phil Narducci, 51, a convicted hitman, is considered the likely leader of that faction"
George A wrote on gangland news today and this is what he wrote about The scarfo guys getting out.... "The Scarfo group includes brothers Phil and Frank Narducci, Anthony and Joe Pungitore and Nicky Milano. Jailed on racketeering charges that brought down the Scarfo organization in 1988, those seasoned mobsters could become a force in the underworld. Phil Narducci, 51, a convicted hitman, is considered the likely leader of that faction"
Narducci took nickywhip back even after Ligambi shunned him ooo shieet
George A wrote on gangland news today and this is what he wrote about The scarfo guys getting out.... "The Scarfo group includes brothers Phil and Frank Narducci, Anthony and Joe Pungitore and Nicky Milano. Jailed on racketeering charges that brought down the Scarfo organization in 1988, those seasoned mobsters could become a force in the underworld. Phil Narducci, 51, a convicted hitman, is considered the likely leader of that faction"
all the scarf guys are shooters and killers all in there 50tys so its a toss up. they should all just fall in line anyone remember who the 2 guys who fought.in jail because he was still loyal to scarf as boss. anyway I think he guy Nicky whip stays in contract with scarf. wat ever people say about scarf guy is a monster. I really think it pushed uncle joes loyalty from Merlino when that guy murder the rat.in the middle of joes trial that was fucked up. they were trying to scare the jury into convicting them all and the video of mazzone treating Phil ligambi like a bitch only in philly.and crazy Phil just stirring the pot.
will know by the end of summer if philly got a new boss. all that shit Merlino was talking bout a book TV and movies is bull shit he's off parole there would be cameras following hIM around Florida by now. I think he's still.boss in name only rite.now. you can't rule a big city like that from Florida that makes all the guys look dumb. they said chin wouldn't even leave Manhattan.smart of him having manna run the whole state of nj and fat tony uptown
will know by the end of summer if philly got a new boss. all that shit Merlino was talking bout a book TV and movies is bull shit he's off parole there would be cameras following hIM around Florida by now. I think he's still.boss in name only rite.now. you can't rule a big city like that from Florida that makes all the guys look dumb. they said chin wouldn't even leave Manhattan.smart of him having manna run the whole state of nj and fat tony uptown
From what we've seen on these boards. Even on Supervised Release he had permission and was all over the country. California, Philadelphia, and New Jersey. He has enough fanboys that will keep giving him free shit, hell I wouldn't be surprised if Jose sent him an envelope to fall in good graces on for it to be sent back ...
George A wrote on gangland news today and this is what he wrote about The scarfo guys getting out.... "The Scarfo group includes brothers Phil and Frank Narducci, Anthony and Joe Pungitore and Nicky Milano. Jailed on racketeering charges that brought down the Scarfo organization in 1988, those seasoned mobsters could become a force in the underworld. Phil Narducci, 51, a convicted hitman, is considered the likely leader of that faction"
Who does Phil Narducci and the rest of those Scarfo guys have as muscle should they even attempt to wrestle power away from Mazzone or any of the other guys from the Merlino faction? I can't see any kind of war happening despite what GA or any other local mob reporter say.
Somebody months back posted a picture of Narducci with a bunch of younger guys but does anyone know if these guys are players? If I recall correctly it was a picture taken from Marduccis nightclub with his nephews also in the picture. Most of the kids who could attempting to be players grew up idolizing Merlino, Chang, Mazzone and company and some were not even born during the Scarfo era so I could imagine more backing on the streets goes to the Merlino faction which is why I think all these rumors of a war or fight for leadership is false.
George A wrote on gangland news today and this is what he wrote about The scarfo guys getting out.... "The Scarfo group includes brothers Phil and Frank Narducci, Anthony and Joe Pungitore and Nicky Milano. Jailed on racketeering charges that brought down the Scarfo organization in 1988, those seasoned mobsters could become a force in the underworld. Phil Narducci, 51, a convicted hitman, is considered the likely leader of that faction"
Who does Phil Narducci and the rest of those Scarfo guys have as muscle should they even attempt to wrestle power away from Mazzone or any of the other guys from the Merlino faction? I can't see any kind of war happening despite what GA or any other local mob reporter say.
Somebody months back posted a picture of Narducci with a bunch of younger guys but does anyone know if these guys are players? If I recall correctly it was a picture taken from Marduccis nightclub with his nephews also in the picture. Most of the kids who could attempting to be players grew up idolizing Merlino, Chang, Mazzone and company and some were not even born during the Scarfo era so I could imagine more backing on the streets goes to the Merlino faction which is why I think all these rumors of a war or fight for leadership is false.
His brother, Frank, Joe Grande, Dom Grande, Milano, Faffy's out in 2 years. If the Pungitore brothers didn't go legit that would be a serious crew.
There's also Charlie White and Sal Scafidi, also I think it came out that Joe Grande is in Scoop's Crew now
Charlie White is retired and where did you hear that about Grande being with Scoops? Scafidi is in Florida.
Scoops got caught on the wire bitchin how Joe Grande was close with the north jersey Luchese crew and how he would take care of it and bring him into his crew, but that doesn't necessarily mean Joe Grande is in his crew.
I don't follow Philly too closely. But I have to say, for as small as they are, there's never a dull moment .
I think it all sounds like a load of crap. The Narducci's have legitimate viable business's that they can hang around or sit around in sweatpants the rest of their life and it wouldn't matter despite what Jose says
I don't follow Philly too closely. But I have to say, for as small as they are, there's never a dull moment .
I think it all sounds like a load of crap. The Narducci's have legitimate viable business's that they can hang around or sit around in sweatpants the rest of their life and it wouldn't matter despite what Jose says
I don't follow Philly too closely. But I have to say, for as small as they are, there's never a dull moment .
Most interesting to me. The best is that they all had a softball team. Imagine the west side all playing softball. Benny eggs catching , Ida pitching. Chin coaching. Salerno playing first.
I don't follow Philly too closely. But I have to say, for as small as they are, there's never a dull moment .
I think it all sounds like a load of crap. The Narducci's have legitimate viable business's that they can hang around or sit around in sweatpants the rest of their life and it wouldn't matter despite what Jose says
100percent. But. Some guys just can't leave that life. Once it gets in your blood it's hard to get out. Look at Limone in Boston. Guys a millionaire.
In a city of 6 million and there's talk of 'factions fighting over a smaller and smaller pie'?!?!
Why are there such a small number of made guys on the street in a city this size, this is not Chicago where 'making a guy' is not necessarily a done thing, or at least comparable to the East coast families.
This is a city of 6 mil with 15-20odd made guys on the street, and a huge Italian-American population. Surely if nothing else there would be more than enough 'pie' for all, if not the potential opportunity to expand.
And this considering Philly has a reach into atlantic city and Jersey.
Doesnt make sense imo in terms of size of the family to size of the city, considering its Italian demographic.
Doesnt make sense imo in terms of size of the family to size of the city, considering its Italian demographic.
Just proves that Italian Americans are assimilating. It's the upward mobility of Italian Americans that's depleting the ranks, not an actual lack of Italian Americans.
If you seen them pics with Phil Narducci at club Encore, he is with his nephews Frank and Joe Baldino. They were part of the Operation High Roller in the Borgata back in 2007. Also in the picture was Andrew Micali, who was running the whole operation at the Borgata.. Also I read that Andrew Mical was gettin mail from Phil Narducci while Narducci was in prison.. Also Joey Merlino was writing Micali from prison. I thought that was pretty interesting. Also Narducci and Merlino and all them are all around the same age. Now Narducci was made probably 5-6 years before Merlino but im sure all the guys gettin out in there 50's are already familiar with all of Merlinos guys. South Philly everybody knows everybody.
What is this F*cking life you guys are all talking about?? Philly is just old and slow in some aspects.. oh wow I work at a weed shop am I "connected"? Oh wow I'm Sicilian and I have a big d*ck and I happen to drive a Mercedes.. am I connected? Oh wow I went on vacation to Columbia and stepped on some white powder and because I'm OCD I just HAD TO taste it and now my lips are numb can I be connected.... Actually I have to confess something to everyone... I am fascinated with manufacturing and processes... do you think the Columbians in Columbia are hiring any sample or taste test cocaine engineers out there?? I wonder how much they would pay?? Did you guys know at some point during the manufacturing process cocaine looks like yellow oil?
Doesnt make sense imo in terms of size of the family to size of the city, considering its Italian demographic.
Just proves that Italian Americans are assimilating. It's the upward mobility of Italian Americans that's depleting the ranks, not an actual lack of Italian Americans.
Absolutley. My curiosity just comes from what seems a disproportionate effect in Philly.
NY can sustain 10times the number of wiseguys than Philly and is only 3 times the size.
That differential just makes me curious is all. Perhaps there were reasons or something I was missing that would explain the difference.
As always, my thanks for all opinions and genuine contributions.
What is this F*cking life you guys are all talking about?? Philly is just old and slow in some aspects.. oh wow I work at a weed shop am I "connected"? Oh wow I'm Sicilian and I have a big d*ck and I happen to drive a Mercedes.. am I connected? Oh wow I went on vacation to Columbia and stepped on some white powder and because I'm OCD I just HAD TO taste it and now my lips are numb can I be connected.... Actually I have to confess something to everyone... I am fascinated with manufacturing and processes... do you think the Columbians in Columbia are hiring any sample or taste test cocaine engineers out there?? I wonder how much they would pay?? Did you guys know at some point during the manufacturing process cocaine looks like yellow oil?
If you seen them pics with Phil Narducci at club Encore, he is with his nephews Frank and Joe Baldino. They were part of the Operation High Roller in the Borgata back in 2007. Also in the picture was Andrew Micali, who was running the whole operation at the Borgata.. Also I read that Andrew Mical was gettin mail from Phil Narducci while Narducci was in prison.. Also Joey Merlino was writing Micali from prison. I thought that was pretty interesting. Also Narducci and Merlino and all them are all around the same age. Now Narducci was made probably 5-6 years before Merlino but im sure all the guys gettin out in there 50's are already familiar with all of Merlinos guys. South Philly everybody knows everybody.
What was/is "operation high roller"? Will George Anastasia write a book about it?
I don't follow Philly too closely. But I have to say, for as small as they are, there's never a dull moment .
I think it all sounds like a load of crap. The Narducci's have legitimate viable business's that they can hang around or sit around in sweatpants the rest of their life and it wouldn't matter despite what Jose says
100percent. But. Some guys just can't leave that life. Once it gets in your blood it's hard to get out. Look at Limone in Boston. Guys a millionaire.
Unless they contract and "share" AIDS with each other
you gotta think the Narduccis were locked up for like 25 years and missed out on half there life. They were raised in the mob. If that was me I would be looking for some extra money to enjoy the remaining years of my life after missing so much.
The legal problems just keep mounting for reputed mob associate Ronald Galati Sr.
Already under arrest in a murder-for-hire plot in Philadelphia, and under scrutiny from a Pennsylvania grand jury probing insurance fraud, the 63-year-old auto mechanic now faces federal charges alleging that he offered to pay three men to kill the boyfriend of his daughter Tiffany, 33.
In an indictment unsealed Thursday, federal prosecutors in Camden accused Galati of orchestrating a November attack on Andrew Tuono, 34, outside an Atlantic City home. Tuono survived but was left with three bullet wounds to the stomach.
Galati's lawyer, Anthony Voci Jr., said the new charges were expected and his client maintains his innocence.
"I've been representing Mr. Galati for six months, and I haven't seen a shred of physical evidence," he said. "All I've been confronted with are bald allegations supported by say-so assertions." The latest case against Galati, owner of American Collision & Automotive Center near 20th and McKean Streets in South Philadelphia, comes four months after his arrest in the city on charges that he hired three men to kill a witness who testified against him in the ongoing grand jury probe.
Testimony from two of those would-be assassins - Ronald Walker and Alvin Matthews - lies at the heart of the New Jersey case. The men told FBI agents that in addition to targeting the witness, Galati offered to pay them $20,000 if they carried out a hit on Tuono.
Though investigators have not specified what drove Galati's desire to see Tuono dead, federal prosecutors allege that he had been mulling the decision for months.
As early as June, they said, Galati interrupted a family dinner to pull Tuono into a kitchen and threaten his life.
Five months later, according to Thursday's indictment, Galati hired Walker, Matthews, and Jerome Johnson, 45, of Philadelphia, to carry out the deed.
Walker and Matthews, who were arrested shortly after the attempt on Tuono, pleaded guilty last month to federal firearms charges and conspiracy to commit murder for hire.
Johnson was also indicted Thursday. It remained unclear whether he has retained an attorney.
Galati has remained in custody in Philadelphia without bail since city prosecutors accused him in December of hiring the same trio to kill Joseph Rao Sr., a rival mechanic who testified against him before the grand jury, and Rao's son. That plot was stopped before any attempt was made on their lives.
In arguing to keep Galati behind bars until his trial scheduled for July, prosecutors cited his "close personal connections" to top mob figures, including reputed Philadelphia mob boss Joseph "Uncle Joe" Ligambi.
Prison logs show that Galati visited Ligambi and his nephew George Borgesi in prison while the two awaited trial last year on racketeering conspiracy charges. (The jury acquitted Borgesi and split on Ligambi; prosecutors said they won't try him again.)
Galati also hired Ligambi's wife to work at an auto-body repair shop owned by his son.
Voci, Galati's lawyer, said Thursday he intended to raise the question of bail once more in his client's new federal case.
If convicted of the charges in New Jersey, Galati could face up to 20 years in prison.
I don't follow Philly too closely. But I have to say, for as small as they are, there's never a dull moment .
I think it all sounds like a load of crap. The Narducci's have legitimate viable business's that they can hang around or sit around in sweatpants the rest of their life and it wouldn't matter despite what Jose says
100percent. But. Some guys just can't leave that life. Once it gets in your blood it's hard to get out. Look at Limone in Boston. Guys a millionaire.
Unless they contract and "share" AIDS with each other
Who is HIV+? Not everyone who is exposed to HIV either via blood or via unprotected sex becomes infected.
So Nicky Milano is back in the game from what I'm reading? I've been under the impression that he was given a pass, but was shelved due to contact over the years with his informant brother?
So Nicky Milano is back in the game from what I'm reading? I've been under the impression that he was given a pass, but was shelved due to contact over the years with his informant brother?
I'm not a Philly guy, but I think it's just a matter of taking whatever and whoever you can get these days.
I recently heard that a local shylock who went into Witness Protection more than fifteen years ago was back in the Bronx/Yonkers area and loaning money as a freelancer. The story goes that he came back to collect some old paper, and when he realized no one was looking for him anymore he decided to stay.
I've said this before, but I wouldn't be totally shocked to see a rat taken back into the fold one of these days, providing that he pays his way back in. Now I'm not expecting it to happen. But I wouldn't be shocked by it, either.
Doesnt make sense imo in terms of size of the family to size of the city, considering its Italian demographic.
Just proves that Italian Americans are assimilating. It's the upward mobility of Italian Americans that's depleting the ranks, not an actual lack of Italian Americans.
I wonder if he actually owns the place down the shore. Where's he at again, Margate? If he does own it, he must've been pullin in atleast some decent loot to have a "vacation" home. You can get a two bedroom condo down there though for like 175 or 200k. And they put a lotta detail in that article, job, house, boss's name etc...I know it would be completely out of control if someone tried to take a shot at him but damn, they are making it easy if some south philly nut (aka nicodemo) wanted too. So two questions, what are the chances someone does hit him, or atleast take a shot, and you think this is the end for him or does he end up back in the can?
So two questions, what are the chances someone does hit him, or atleast take a shot, and you think this is the end for him or does he end up back in the can?
I don't think anybody takes a shot at him and he does not end up back in the can..
Thanks for the input and I agree. Nobody could be dumb enough to hit him and really what would be the point... He didn't do too much damage and yeah he ratted, but the Philly fam isn't in any position to be teaching people lessons. I think he stays out of the can because of the sole reason that nobody will work with him... besides maybe Frankie The Fixer! They can start their own family, The Barrier Islands Crime Family!
he was born n raised in s.p. i think so for a very long time I don't think hell be hanging in a sports bar on a Sunday watching a game like he probably did for the last 30+ yrs of his life. or bring his kid to the old park without just a thought of danger and to me that sucks. he sounded like a dbag in the papers wonder how you change your life this fast at 47. is his boss like a cousin or best friend not many bosses I could ever think of want to be speaking to a federal judge about how good you are at your job you started a lil while back probably was a fed posing as his boss. I would be embarrished just to ask someone to go to my sentencing. is this company like a 6 guy crew. boss makes it sound national. weird.his main object was to take down uncle Joe an George he didn't now he's the best guy in the world smells fishy.
He is clearly a self absorbed d bag narcissist. Also please don't be so naive everyone, while I'm sure it's not some super mission top objective (lol), there are definitely people out there who would like to blow that cocksucker away. A lot of people.
He is clearly a self absorbed d bag narcissist. Also please don't be so naive everyone, while I'm sure it's not some super mission top objective (lol), there are definitely people out there who would like to blow that cocksucker away. A lot of people.
Lou will most likely run into a few of them over the years especially since hes right down the shore. The guys will probably run there mouths to him and if Lou is really a tough guy he will throw his hands up but I dont think anybody is going to go after him anytime soon... George Borgesi' crazy ass probably plotting in his head and thinking Lou's gonna get it down the road. But we shall find out in time. I def dont think its the last we heard of Bent Finger Lou.
anyone know who nicodemo lawyer is? does he got a powerhouse. I guessing he beats it I like this frame theory. its a state case so he got a shot. cant believe the feds didn't pick it up, they killed a known government informant could have gave him the needle and make him spill the beans on every murder since joe merlino took over. any updates on scarfo jr trial?
anyone know who nicodemo lawyer is? does he got a powerhouse. I guessing he beats it I like this frame theory. its a state case so he got a shot. cant believe the feds didn't pick it up, they killed a known government informant could have gave him the needle and make him spill the beans on every murder since joe merlino took over. any updates on scarfo jr trial?
well even if he is acquitted the govt can still retry the case…..no double jeopardy with RICO, as Bobby Glasses can attest to.
i think the last news reported about the scarfo trial was that Pellulo was asking for a mistrial after being banned from the courtroom, i don't know if George Anastasia is taking a vacation or something but its just kinda odd that he fought so hard to be able to cover the trial and he's barely written anything about it.
anyone know who nicodemo lawyer is? does he got a powerhouse. I guessing he beats it I like this frame theory. its a state case so he got a shot. cant believe the feds didn't pick it up, they killed a known government informant could have gave him the needle and make him spill the beans on every murder since joe merlino took over. any updates on scarfo jr trial?
well even if he is acquitted the govt can still retry the case…..no double jeopardy with RICO, as Bobby Glasses can attest to.
i think the last news reported about the scarfo trial was that Pellulo was asking for a mistrial after being banned from the courtroom, i don't know if George Anastasia is taking a vacation or something but its just kinda odd that he fought so hard to be able to cover the trial and he's barely written anything about it.
anyone know who nicodemo lawyer is? does he got a powerhouse. I guessing he beats it I like this frame theory. its a state case so he got a shot. cant believe the feds didn't pick it up, they killed a known government informant could have gave him the needle and make him spill the beans on every murder since joe merlino took over. any updates on scarfo jr trial?
I dont think he was a federal imformant he nay have gave his cousin up but im pretty sure that was a state drug case.
so George a wrote a new article over big trial on nicodemos murder trial his defense is he was car jacked and the masked man hid the gun in his car. using the my client woulnt be stupid anuff to pull a murder in his own car. this is great. George goes on to say he probably flip if hes found guilty.
Yea their might b a lot of wanna b toughies.. but it might end up like another episode of Stupidiemo.. most or about all have no training most no real guts.. they just want to steal money and run.. and after they tricked you into a friendship they shoot ya in the bak when your not looking.. some guys kneed to put their knee pads away along wit them shoe shine kits.. Nothing gonna happen.. sorry ... And I think bent finger is a 7Th degree blak belt and he has trophies to prove it to everyone.? he lives right in ventor 5 miles from their backyard in margate.. they also must b scared of him I guess.?
no kiddo just politely telling you to put your knee pads away and that shoe shine kit also.. Stupidemo never had any real military training so he popeyed his diapers in the middle of a so called mob hit.? he might kneed some poopey paper when it is your turn to wipe.. But he might b embarrassed because many cell mates already made him their Pookie.. because they kneed his nookie.. so a sore back zipper might make him a flipper.. Catchin on kiddo... schools ending now little one, so what are you going to do this summer besides shine shoes and clean toilets on passyunk ave.? Wow you are church going kid.. Good for you kiddo so Shine on...just remember to wipe your chin when your done..
Because you're from Baltimore. But that's to be expected. It's only natural to be more interested in the goings on in closer proximity to your hometown. I live in New York and I really don't have much interest in Philly or Chicago or wherever.
Well I moved down here almost 3 years ago. Growing up my father lived in South Philly and my mom was right over the bridge in Camden County. So naturally I was always more interested in all the drama in the Philly family. When I joined this forum is when I started taking an interest in the New York families. Mainly the Lucchese and Genovese. And anything about Montreal and the Rizzutos are always a good read as well.
But your right PB. I was always interested because they operated right in my backyard. And after learning of the history of the Philly family and all the wars, double crossings, informants, murders and all around drama that goes in within the family made it just that more interesting. Everybody is different though.
Well I moved down here almost 3 years ago. Growing up my father lived in South Philly and my mom was right over the bridge in Camden County. So naturally I was always more interested in all the drama in the Philly family. When I joined this forum is when I started taking an interest in the New York families. Mainly the Lucchese and Genovese. And anything about Montreal and the Rizzutos are always a good read as well.
Lou Monacello is a big tall pussy-whipped ex mafia bitch. He couldnt face hard time so he took the deal the feds offered him, got a white collar job n rolled the dice. He lost, the federal DA, Mr.Han lost they all lost! The real winners were Uncle Joe n G.Borgasi. Yes, rat face Lou does have a black belt and yes he does a good job working for ACN but as a person he is not credible or to b trusted.
was the Esposito guy son of the soldier by the same name who got life with stanfa and them during that trial back in 94? he might have died during the trial. was his name ray Esposito. lucky he only got 2yrs the other gambler mouse got 16. so they indicted uncle joes kid is he the movie one? is it state case or federal. its white colar he get a few yrs 2 or 3 in a camp, and if its state his father name rings bells no one will f with him even in state cases no violence you go strait to a camp.
I dont think Ray and Eric are related but its definitely possible. I met a lot of Esposito's while living in Philly/South Jersey area. Also If Steve Ligambi was in a state prison, regardless of who his dad is, he would have to pay for protection or get his ass beat. They got all kinds of gangs in there that would love for a white boy like that to join them so they could make him pay tax.
Stevie your the man, al, you post is great shit, but I gotta disagree there. I'm white and my dad isn't uncle joe and I been in state prison in NJ. Sure there are gangs but they don't necessarily just run around extorting everyone. Also everybody, especially blacks, would be on his dick because of who his dad is and everyone would know for sure, that's like hot gossip in there, people know when you're a somebody.
Stevie your the man, al, you post is great shit, but I gotta disagree there. I'm white and my dad isn't uncle joe and I been in state prison in NJ. Sure there are gangs but they don't necessarily just run around extorting everyone. Also everybody, especially blacks, would be on his dick because of who his dad is and everyone would know for sure, that's like hot gossip in there, people know when you're a somebody.
Vegas we can agree to disagree lol.. Where were you at? Annandale or Yardville? I was in Annandale & Bordentown about 10 years ago. Bordentown was a lot worse though.. And your right them guys might eat it all up that his dad is a "mob boss" but most of the black guys I know have no clue who Joe Ligambi is. Steve Ligambi is like 5'7 150 lbs. No matter where he goes I think hes gonna have to pay somebody something to protect him. Hes not bout that life! lol
I dont think Ray and Eric are related but its definitely possible. I met a lot of Esposito's while living in Philly/South Jersey area. Also If Steve Ligambi was in a state prison, regardless of who his dad is, he would have to pay for protection or get his ass beat. They got all kinds of gangs in there that would love for a white boy like that to join them so they could make him pay tax.
If he goes upstate it will be in Pennsylvania and I highly doubt he'll have to pay anybody anything I know plenty of guys who've done state time here and in some of the worse places like graterford and they all say there really isn't any gangs tryin to shake you down. Personally I think the most hell get is 23 months in county and there he might get messed up just cause of the north Philly drug dealers. That's even if he goes to jail I don't know anything about him but I'm guessing he's got no previous convictions since he's not a wise guy so he might not even get any time.
Stevie your the man, al, you post is great shit, but I gotta disagree there. I'm white and my dad isn't uncle joe and I been in state prison in NJ. Sure there are gangs but they don't necessarily just run around extorting everyone. Also everybody, especially blacks, would be on his dick because of who his dad is and everyone would know for sure, that's like hot gossip in there, people know when you're a somebody.
Vegas we can agree to disagree lol.. Where were you at? Annandale or Yardville? I was in Annandale & Bordentown about 10 years ago. Bordentown was a lot worse though.. And your right them guys might eat it all up that his dad is a "mob boss" but most of the black guys I know have no clue who Joe Ligambi is. Steve Ligambi is like 5'7 150 lbs. No matter where he goes I think hes gonna have to pay somebody something to protect him. Hes not bout that life! lol
Lol you are funny as hell, I didn't realize he was 5 7 150 you might be right. I was in Yardville 2009-2010, I been in camden county (shithole), CRAF, GSYCF, and Bo Robinson and I never had no problems and I am white and graduated from Eastern High School in Voorhees. I'm also not very tough either lol but I am huge about 6'5 240 and kinda crazy so nobody bothered me. I am also a bit of an extrovert so I was like king of the white boys in the yardville camps, I was in MSU 2 for like a 10 months. It's a shame unfortunately like 90% of the white kids in a jail are all junkies and clowns but I'm not judging or saying I'm better then anyone! I was a drug dealer and still am a gambler lol, it's just sad everyone stereotypes the white guys as junkies and bums and there pretty much right.
Yea I feel you on that. Your a big boy so no doubt you didnt have problems. And a lot of the white boys i was with were junkies there on drug and theft charges. My cousins went to Eastern High School. And I knew a kid named Chase that was locked down with me then went to Eastern.. He was an animal when we were locked up. But he was also a junkie and a thief lol.
Not to sure on the above question but due to s philly being such a small area if you have generations of family members from there and you stay then at some point you will rub elbows with connected people at one time or another so I from what it seems Galati portrays himself as a gangster then I am guessing his hanger ons view themselves as such because they are probably pretty naive and dumb and now are going to the big house
Not to sure on the above question but due to s philly being such a small area if you have generations of family members from there and you stay then at some point you will rub elbows with connected people at one time or another so I from what it seems Galati portrays himself as a gangster then I am guessing his hanger ons view themselves as such because they are probably pretty naive and dumb and now are going to the big house
Well put. Wannabes rarely consider guilt by association and that people are judged by the company they keep. I'm not saying it's fair, but that's the way it is. It's all fun and games until you hear the iron door slam shut.
Yea I feel you on that. Your a big boy so no doubt you didnt have problems. And a lot of the white boys i was with were junkies there on drug and theft charges. My cousins went to Eastern High School. And I knew a kid named Chase that was locked down with me then went to Eastern.. He was an animal when we were locked up. But he was also a junkie and a thief lol.
Hmm chase kinder isn't like that so I'm guessing Chase Roehr. He is just a little younger then me and a wild man but seemed like a sweetheart lol
Not to sure on the above question but due to s philly being such a small area if you have generations of family members from there and you stay then at some point you will rub elbows with connected people at one time or another so I from what it seems Galati portrays himself as a gangster then I am guessing his hanger ons view themselves as such because they are probably pretty naive and dumb and now are going to the big house
I agree. I'm also from PHL as are relatives of mine who have been here for generations, and I agree that it's best to avoid certain people, or not get too close like the people you described did, and keep to yourself and your family.
Not to sure on the above question but due to s philly being such a small area if you have generations of family members from there and you stay then at some point you will rub elbows with connected people at one time or another so I from what it seems Galati portrays himself as a gangster then I am guessing his hanger ons view themselves as such because they are probably pretty naive and dumb and now are going to the big house
u can't miss the philly mobsters because they're begging for change at gas stations
or maybe he was just one of her husband's friends that was out on parole for something or another and she was gracious enough to allow him to sleep in her home. (even though she was probably annoyed she had to have weird jumpy guests in their underwear bear crawling around like they were still playing football) The girls were sleeping with her, in her bed. I doubt she was interested in "banging him" even IF he kept his leg on... loll... I hate myself for having to comment...
or maybe he was just one of her husband's friends that was out on parole for something or another and she was gracious enough to allow him to sleep in her home. (even though she was probably annoyed she had to have weird jumpy guests in their underwear bear crawling around like they were still playing football) The girls were sleeping with her, in her bed. I doubt she was interested in "banging him" even IF he kept his leg on... loll... I hate myself for having to comment...
Hey ya never know what really happened. Rinick definitely shouldnt of been in that house unless Joey himself told him to stay there.. Joeys wife is way too hot for him!
I thought I read on the forum here about a year ago that he was in jail for being with a 15-16 year old girl.. and he was gonna do 15 plus.. I thought I read that here.. Maybe somebody here will let us know if that story is true.. Shure you can google him.. And I heard he robbed a guy in an alley at gun point? an then after taking money shot the guy.? that is what I heard some one let me kno if it is true or im wrong..
Lol you guys are insane. Everyone loves gossip and when you are gettin it people try to jail off you. If you think for one second this guy was chippin Merlinos wife and is still breathing I got a bridge to sell you. He does look like a real weirdo haha and he is doing a big bid for coke or meth if I'm not mistaken
I got them pics of him off his facebook page like 6 months ago lol. But it did say he was in jail. I dont know if he is allowed to use internet or maybe somebody updated it for him. He's a loser and always will be in and out of jail.
South Philly has always been a majority Italian area as well as Irish. North Philly seems to be the main black area in Philly, so opposite sides. But I'm sure one of the Philly guys on here would know.
Yea and them Cambodians got there own gangs and they sell heroin and shit. I was driving a girl home in a Cambodian neigborhhod and they wouldnt move out the damn street and then when they did they kicked my car as I was driving through the little one way street. There was like 40 of them little fuckers lol
surprised the retiral isn't already started its a state case. they must have something up there sleeve. the city of philly what 6 million people they cant find 16 jurors, there probably 4 other murder trial going on there now or 4 other plea bargins.
surprised the retiral isn't already started its a state case. they must have something up there sleeve. the city of philly what 6 million people they cant find 16 jurors, there probably 4 other murder trial going on there now or 4 other plea bargins.
[
hahahh killadelphia has unfortunately for some of the innocent victims a murder or 2 a day
Ok....so I guess I'll go ahead and ask. If D.Grande was the shooter, aren't these guys worried that he will flip? Are they waiting for the next trial to see how that plays out? If I was a paranoid Philly capo I would not be able to sleep at night.
Speakeasies? Is this the 1920's ? Really though I had no idea stuff like this still was going on. Makes sense now though if you can't get a license you'd have to do that.
south Philly if off the hook. They don't have shady bars and clubs where you guys live? Go eat at mama marias and your five course dinner comes with bottles of liquor brought to your table after dessert. I remember going to after hours clubs like the republican at 5am they got girls stripping and everything. These guys look like some regular dusty mfers, but based on where they were located maybe somebody got a piece of that I'd assume.
The Cambodian guys are psycho... there are black neighborhoods in south philly... I haven't noticed too many Hispanics in south philly, black b*tches, Asians and Italian guys and some white people. but I'm just there to shop and eat so as long as no one talks to me too much, robs me, or eats my food I'm happy! : )
Half of the "Italian" market is now Hispanic...there are other Hispanic areas in south philly too just .. 2nd street over by Oregon intersection and back in there.. Certain areas along Snyder ave are also black and Hispanic mostly between 2nd and 10th street or so Schratweiser reported that anthony borgesi was at one of the places today after it was raided ... No news on that story but judging by the location , there must have been some kickin up.
I'm very confused about what a modern day speak easy would be? I thought those were needed only in the 1920's during the era of prohibition? Or is that where people sell stolen alcohol for cheaper than the cost at a regular liquor store in order to save money on the tax for alchohol?
There are some legal "speakeasies" popping up as bar/restaurants around the city..old school drinks served .. Food - all overpriced .. The staff dressed in old world clothing.. If you're into that kind of thing the places aren't bad...some have the piano player and live music
It's just a bar or after hours place without a liquor license. Obviously a little under the radar but I would imagine there are at least 50 in south philly
I been to the democrat, the republican, Lucy's, at least three other places with no name, and then I've also eaten at like at least two places with no liquor license that serve you bottles for dessert (like a boss tho) lol
The story on at 10 made this seem like a non story .. One of the places they raided brought in something like $550 in cash .. Really ? The italia place seemed like a hangout for old retirees playing cards .. This is what they waste their time on ? Doesn't make sense
What a lot of the places sell in South Philly is homemade wine and lemoncello stuff like that. Cafe Italia is a great espresso shop and you go in everybody speaking Italian and playing scopa. It is by no means a speak. It is a neighborhood hang out for the old greasballs. They are everywhere
Take a closer look at this 3 page document... that is a girl's hand writing... Merlino doesn't HAVE TO rat. There shouldn't be any known "weirdo's" hanging around his family. that's means anyone with a police record or a reputation for doing drugs shouldn't be "sharing elevators", "brushing by" the young ladies, or "stopping in to quickly say hello then leave"... you SICK moth*er F*cker... and cheech drugs have a very big part with busts and the way people behave... how many "normal" guys on crystal meth or steroid's would you introduce to your family? How many guys and girls on GHB would you introduce to your daughters??? I am not a prude... but maintaining a certain personal distance with certain people is required. I personally, am not a cop or a federal agent, and I don't make the rules... I just try and respect them.
Go eat your egg noodles and ketchup they call food out in the Midwest, continue watching the Cubs not make the playoffs, and us here from Jersey/NYC/Philly will continue to have our discussions. You are one of the most annoying trolls ever, seriously.
On a more important note, Anyone see where the Philly guys are hanging out in Margate this summer? The reason I ask is because there are about two new venues in Margate this summer to hang....
WTF, you won't catch any NY mobsters dressing up like these Philly guys lol how gay can you get?
Tuesdays at the Ravenite were famous for the raucous attire. Sammy would often sport a muumuu, and John himself liked to wear those big hats like the women at the Kentucky Derby.
Originally Posted By: TommyGambino
And who is that black guy in all the pics.
That's Jerome the Bookmaker. He actually has an advanced degree in astrophysics. But, well, you know the job market today.
Originally Posted By: TommyGambino
Philly mob love getting there pictures took, idiots.
If Carlo Gambino was alive, I think he'd be a big selfie whore on Facebook. But he'd have Neil do all his Tweeting. A Don doesn't Tweet.
WTF, you won't catch any NY mobsters dressing up like these Philly guys lol how gay can you get?
Tuesdays at the Ravenite were famous for the raucous attire. Sammy would often sport a muumuu, and John himself liked to wear those big hats like the women at the Kentucky Derby.
Originally Posted By: TommyGambino
And who is that black guy in all the pics.
That's Jerome the Bookmaker. He actually has an advanced degree in astrophysics. But, well, you know the job market today.
Originally Posted By: TommyGambino
Philly mob love getting there pictures took, idiots.
If Carlo Gambino was alive, I think he'd be a big selfie whore on Facebook. But he'd have Neil do all his Tweeting. A Don doesn't Tweet.
[/quote] If Carlo Gambino was alive, I think he'd be a big selfie whore on Facebook. But he'd have Neil do all his Tweeting. A Don doesn't Tweet. [/quote]
That one with Dom in the middle is an old pic. Precopio's brother, Michael Precopio, is in the back and the other dudes are from 10th and oregon.
There are a ton of social clubs and even hangouts(13th and Bigler) that guys get together. It use to be some kind of office right in the middle of a good neighborood next to houses. The other social clubs one 2nd street are next to a bunch of clubs and bars. But they are Mummer clubs. The one that some of the connected guys are a part of is not on 2nd street. Grande is in that as well.
Back to those guys. I know the old man. Canio Pasquale. He used to own a resturant on 8-9th street. Whats left of the resturants near the Italian market. Its near Ralphs Resturant. I didn't read the story yet but surprised they would go after these guys for this.
The bigler spot has been over for years, also if you don't know what th mummers are check your history. As far as looking funny that's the whole point. Imagine a parade with everyone dressed in.business suits. Some of you guys try to hard man. People can be tough and wear funny clothes sometimes
The bigler spot has been over for years, also if you don't know what th mummers are check your history. As far as looking funny that's the whole point. Imagine a parade with everyone dressed in.business suits. Some of you guys try to hard man. People can be tough and wear funny clothes sometimes
And it wasn't meant as a racial stereotype. It was meant as a young-gang member-wannabe stereotype. Because I've seen plenty of Latino and White trash kids dressed in that baggy jailhouse look.
And it wasn't meant as a racial stereotype. It was meant as a young-gang member-wannabe stereotype. Because I've seen plenty of Latino and White trash kids dressed in that baggy jailhouse look.
the baggy jailhouse look has been replaced by the jailhouse "girl" look
tight pants and sagging so low that their entire underwear is showing is the trend
u got a point, i'd rather get shot by an elf than a man in skinny jeans
It looks silly, but not for anything VegasMikey has a point. I've been in Sicily for more feasts than I can count and you wouldn't believe how some tough mafiosi dress for such things as Carnevale or for their hometown feasts to their patron Saint, etc.
It looks silly, but not for anything VegasMikey has a point. I've been in Sicily for more feasts than I can count and you wouldn't believe how some tough mafiosi dress for such things as Carnevale or for their hometown feasts to their patron Saint, etc.
Yea its just a tradition in Philly, I'm sure as Carm said they do it in a lot of places too. My old roommate in South Philly and all our friends are part of a Mummers brigade. I am too self conscious (and from jersey) to do it! Also I like to drink on NYE not New Year's Day lol. A lot of those south philly guys are tough as nails and would fuck you up in an instant, so I wouldn't assume they're sweet just based on the mummers clothes. Also Handsome Stevie I know where you got the pics of my friend Sheep lol!!! I'm on to you. Don't worry tho your secrets safe with me
She listened to two days of testimony in the Anthony Nicodemo murder trial last month and said she wasn't buying the defense argument that Nicodemo was carjacked and became an unwitting getaway driver in the murder of Gino DiPietro.
"The story about the carjacking was absurd," the former Common Pleas Court panelist wrote in one of several e-mail exchanges with Bigtrial.net. She also said she surmised the shooting was a mob hit even though the judge had barred any mention of organized crime. And she correctly assumed that Nicodemo was being held without bail and that he was able to afford a high priced defense attorney.
The juror agreed to share her insights from the two days she heard testimony, but asked to remain anonymous. She was the first of three jurors dismissed during the case which ended in a mistrial on May 20. Lawyers for the defense and prosecution are to meet with Judge Jeffrey P. Minehart Thursday for a status conference during which a new trial date could be set.
Nicodemo, 42, has been held without bail since his arrest on the day of the shooting, December 12, 2012.
"During opening remarks, Brian McMonagle (Nicodemo's lawyer) was wearing a suit that was very, very expensive...and a watch that cost more than my 2011 car," the juror wrote. "Therefore, I deduced that he was not a public defender."
Using the same reasoning, she said, led her to believe that "the defendant had the access to cash necessary to employ" an expensive attorney. And she wondered, "Where did this money come from? I had my suspicions."
She said she assumed Nicodemo was being held without bail because while he appeared each day in court in a dress shirt and slacks ("business casual clothes" in the words of the juror), she noticed that he was wearing "a pair of pristine white sneakers."
"I couldn't imagine Mr. Nicodemo would come to court in sneakers unless he was being kept in jail," she wrote. "Why wouldn't he be out on bail? I knew he had access to money, so he either was a flight risk or a very dangerous person (or both)."
The panelist said Nicodemo had smiled at her during the jury selection process. But during the trial, which included testimony about the gangland-style slaying of DiPietro in the 2800 block of South Iseminger Street, she said she would look toward the defense table and Nicodemo "confronted me with a smug, steely gaze."
The juror said "he appeared unmoved by the heinous details of the crime and the disturbing testimony of several witnesses."
The juror was one of 14 chosen to hear testimony in the case. Judge Minehart opted to go with just two alternates during the trial, a move that would eventually lead to the mistrial when a third juror was dismissed on Dec. 20. She heard the bulk of the prosecution's case before being dismissed, including the testimony of two witnesses who saw the shooter.
One witness, a letter carrier working in the neighborhood, said he heard a shot, ran toward the sound, heard a second shot and then saw a gunman in a hoody fire four more shots into DiPietro who was lying in the street beside his pickup truck. The shooting occurred shortly before 3 p.m.The gunman then fled in the opposite direction, the mailman testified.
At that point, the shooter ran past another witness who said he saw the gunman jump into a black Honda Pilot SUV which appeared to be parked with the motor running. The vehicle sped away, but the witness got the license tag.
The Honda Pilot was registered to Anthony Nicodemo at his home in the 3200 block of South 17th Street. Less than 30 minutes after the shooting, police were knocking on Nicodemo's door. He said he had been working inside his house. He was taken into custody. After obtaining a search warrant for the Honda Pilot, which was parked behind Nicodemo's home, police found a .357 magnum wrapped in a jacket behind the driver's seat.
Evidence entered during the trial indicated that the gun was the murder weapon. It was, Assistant District Attorney Brian Zarallo said in his opening statement, the "smoking gun" that tied Nicodemo to the murder. Zarallo said the prosecution did not have to offer a motive for the shooting. He did not provide one. But he twice mentioned Domenic Grande, a mob associate and close friend of Nicodemo's, as the possible shooter. Grande has never been charged.
DiPietro, 50, was a convicted drug dealer who, according to some underworld and law enforcement sources, was cooperating with authorities at the time he was killed. His murder was described by one investigator as the "dumbest" mob hit in the history of Philadelphia.
No one, the investigator said, uses their own vehicle as the getaway car. And any experienced hitman knows that the first order of business after a shooting is to dispose of the murder weapon. The shooting occurred as mob boss Joseph "Uncle Joe" Ligambi and six co-defendants were being tried in a racketeering case in U.S. District Court in Philadelphia. A shooting during a mob trial is also considered bad underworld form.
Those factors apparently came into play as McMonagle prepared his opening statement. In it, he told the jury that Nicodemo happened to be in the neighborhood on the day of the shooting because he had an office nearby and because his parents lived there. The defense lawyer said a masked gunman jumped into the car, forced Nicodemo to speed away and then, at some point, jumped out of the Honda Pilot, but not before stashing the gun behind the driver's seat.
The explanation begs several questions that may or may not have been answered had the trial been completed. One was whether Nicodemo would take the stand in his own defense to expand on the "carjacking" story. At that point, he would have been faced with another difficult question. Why didn't he report the carjacking to police or mention it when they came to his door that afternoon?
Instead, Nicodemo has sat in jail, denied bail, since his arrest on first degree murder and related charges that could land him in jail for 30 years to life.
The juror, a Philadelphia resident who works as a media consultant, said she was not aware of all the background at the time she sat on the panel, but has since learned more about the case. At the time, she said, testimony that Nicodemo told authorities he was working on his house "made no sense with the facts presented."
"Now that I know about the big mob trial that was going on during the DiPietro murder, it seems suspicious," she wrote. "The fact that the prosecution wasn't able to substantiate a motive in intriguing."
The juror said she was also troubled by media reports that she had been dismissed because she had read something about the trial in the newspapers. That was not true, she said. She said she was told she was dismissed because a member of either the victim's or the defendant's family had recognized her.
Law enforcement sources said it was a member of Nicodemo's family who belatedly claimed to have recognized the juror. The sources said they were skeptical of the claim and thought the family had targeted the woman because she appeared to be paying close attention to the prosecution's case and appeared sympathetic to DA's position. In fact, the juror said she knew no one from either family and was puzzled about why she had been let go.
Her dismissal, after the lunch break during the second day of testimony, left the panel with one alternate. On May 19, a second juror was let go. And on May 20, amid reports of suspected jury tampering, a third juror -- a man who lived on Second Street in South Philadelphia -- was released. That reduced the panel to just 11 members and led the judge to declare a mistrial.
Whether the defense comes up with another explanation when the new trial begins is open to speculation. With the facts in evidence fairly straightforward, Nicodemo is hard pressed to offer any story that would reasonably explain how his Honda Pilot was the getaway car and how the murder weapon was found inside of it.
The juror, a film buff, said watching a trial is like watching a movie.
"A film and a trial attorney's arguments are distorted depictions of `the truth,' and of course bias,'" she wrote.
Her approach while watching a movie, she wrote, was to "think beyond the frame...Is the person telling the story withholding relevant background information so that the viewer is unable to see an event or character's behavior within its larger context. This is why it's always necessary to ask, `What aren't they telling me? Why aren't they telling me?'"
She said she employs "the principle of Occam's razor" in looking for the truth: "(in most cases) the least elaborately constructed narrative is probably the closest to `the truth.'"
In the Nicodemo trial, she said, her conclusions were: "There was no carjacking. Mister Nicodemo wasn't working on his house. He did a bad thing. He panicked and he got caught. It happens every day."
While she said she weighed and assessed the information provided during the trial, she quickly surmised that Nicodemo "was a mobster" who was involved in the crime. She wrote that she considered different scenarios that were placed before the jury by the defense. These included McMonagle's arguments that it made no sense for Nicodemo to use his own car, go to a familiar neighborhood and carry out a hit. The defense also pointed out that Nicodemo had driven his two young children to school that morning and had gone shopping and purchased $150 worth of frozen shrimp for a planned Christmas Eve Seven Fishes dinner that day. These were not the kind of activities that usually come before a gangland shooting.
The juror said she thought about those seeming incongruities, but she wrote "I ultimately decided that AN [Anthony Nicodemo] was simply a run of the mill sociopath; he could effortlessly move between that banality of his everyday life and his job as an amoral thug."
In one final note, the juror said she was struck by the date of the murder, December 12, 2012.
"The date 12/12/12 seems like a corny date for a planned execution," wrote the jurist. She wondered if the date was "a coincidence," adding that "the 12 card in the Italian Tarot is the Hanged Man."
George Anastasia can be contacted at George@bigtrial.net.
Wow I hope if I ever go on trial for murder I have dumber jurors then her. Seriously though why use your own car, if they woulda just stole a car this is a cold case. That being said this is unfortunately very realistic. You would be amazed at all the dumb shit and lack of caution gangsters and drug dealers exercise. At least it looks like Nicodemo will stand tall so his young friend may get to enjoy some more years out here. I'm not advocating murder here but I'm also not worried about federal cooperators getting blown away either.
Wow. Now there's a broad who really wants to enjoy her fifteen minutes of fame .
He's fucked. All they did was prolong the inevitable.
The only fame she is going to get is the strange group that still reads Georgie A columns online and obsesses about the mafia.
But seriously, she is smart as far as jurors go. Most are dumb as rocks. But not dumb enough to believe the retarded story that tony nick's attorney made up.
Lol. If nicodemo doesn't flip then he's as dumb as he looks.
You are exactly right on this, if you ever read the big trial comment sections you know family members look at GA's site, so they can read this jurors comments and tell nicodemo or his lawyer can read it but at the end if he wants to play with his kids again then its time to cut a deal and bring down the entire philly mob and move to nebraska
I don't know a whole lot about the current hierarchy in the family but they sure get a lot of attention from the investigative reporters in Philly.I find it ridiculous how Fox broadcast the mob talk for the philly family video's nationwide.
I wonder what that loser Veasey does with his free time now.
He probably masturbates a lot. I can't speak for Philly, but that's what the New York rats seem to do in their spare time.
Sammy's plea included one of those rubber vaginas. It almost fell through when the Government couldn't find one small enough to accommodate his manhood. Fucking steroids, man.
So if not for an 11th hour trip to Tijuana by Federal prosecutors, John Gotti might still be alive and on the street today.
I don't know a whole lot about the current hierarchy in the family but they sure get a lot of attention from the investigative reporters in Philly.I find it ridiculous how Fox broadcast the mob talk for the philly family video's nationwide.
Im pretty sure FOX 29 in Philly is just a regional affiliate of Fox and does not broadcast nationwide aside from the youtube channel that every tv station has these days
I wonder what that loser Veasey does with his free time now.
He probably masturbates a lot. I can't speak for Philly, but that's what the New York rats seem to do in their spare time.
Sammy's plea included one of those rubber vaginas. It almost fell through when the Government couldn't find one small enough to accommodate his manhood. Fucking steroids, man.
So if not for an 11th hour trip to Tijuana by Federal prosecutors, John Gotti might still be alive and on the street today.
I don't know a whole lot about the current hierarchy in the family but they sure get a lot of attention from the investigative reporters in Philly.I find it ridiculous how Fox broadcast the mob talk for the philly family video's nationwide.
Im pretty sure FOX 29 in Philly is just a regional affiliate of Fox and does not broadcast nationwide aside from the youtube channel that every tv station has these days
They do broadcast it in different cities, yes fox 29 is an affiliate but certain segments have aired in different cities. Depending on the crime or what Joey Merlino is doing. Certain regions within different states such as Boston and Arizona. A quick Google search will show you.
Last comment on the subject. scarfo would of issued a hit on mazzone if he dressed like that on his watch. No one in new york would ever dream of doing that.
You guys got me dying over here. Whoever asked about that pathological liar Veasey, he is def not in WPP, as a matter of fact I am pretty sure he posts on here under the handle Marine.
Last comment on the subject. scarfo would of issued a hit on mazzone if he dressed like that on his watch. No one in new york would ever dream of doing that.
Nobody would order a hit for somebody dressed in a mummers costume. Everyone in south Philly are in some way part of the parade. Every new years day they watch the parade and celebrate on 2 street afterwards. And if they're not watching the parade, they're participating in it. They're families and friends and ancestors before them all were in some way involved in the mummers parade. Its tradition. If you don't know what mummers parade is, GOOGLE IT!
To think anybody was going to buy that theory that he was carjacked.It's not that she's so smart its really common sense.She was on the ball but this seems like a no-brainer.So that's Philly's justice system,if your losing the case you create a diversion and try again with the next jury.I bet the lawyer will dress down next time.
Not to get ahead but if there is a 2nd mistrial don't they have to release the defendant? As far as mummers - a long standing tradition In philly. Most everyone is involved in a "brigade" or group. It's a social thing plain and simple.
Not to get ahead but if there is a 2nd mistrial don't they have to release the defendant?
No, the judge doesn't have to do anything. Look at the Junior Gotti mistrials. He was remanded through the better part of FOUR of those, and there wasn't nearly as much evidence against him as there is against Nicodemo.
And I'm sorry for your loss, Jose. But there isn't going to be another mistrial .
You know I'm kidding, pal (but not about Nicodemo getting convicted, he's toast).
Hey Wanna bee u are a real treat.. bet u were a yum yum boy while you were in prison.. how many sets of knee pads do you have? come in colors do they...? you carry lipstick on you also? And yes I was actually a marine at one time.. hurry up and get to grumpys.. and don't forget that shoe shine kit there kddo... and wear your lipstick..
Hey Wanna bee u are a real treat.. bet u were a yum yum boy while you were in prison.. how many sets of knee pads do you have? come in colors do they...? you carry lipstick on you also? And yes I was actually a marine at one time.. hurry up and get to grumpys.. and don't forget that shoe shine kit there kddo... and wear your lipstick..
Hey Solider I know what's like to be in the desert and how hard it is to return to society. I'm a Patriot thru and thru and I got kneepads in every color just for you ..better believe they're red white and blue!
Hey Wanna bee u are a real treat.. bet u were a yum yum boy while you were in prison.. how many sets of knee pads do you have? come in colors do they...? you carry lipstick on you also? And yes I was actually a marine at one time.. hurry up and get to grumpys.. and don't forget that shoe shine kit there kddo... and wear your lipstick..
I think they took down the comment section on Bigtrial.net a while ago.
I talked to george around the time it went down. It was so out of control, I just mentioned it might hurt his good reputation not to mention the law firms to allow john john to post death threats in the comment section. Georgie made the right call.
I liked reading the comments cause it made me laugh out loud! But I could imagine why they stopped people from commenting with all the drama and shit talking some people do. If everyone could just be civil! Lol
All these cases going on in Philly and no word about any of them all week.. and no word on Borgesi and Ligambi going to them speakeasys after they got busted. Dave and George need to step up there game.
All these cases going on in Philly and no word about any of them all week.. and no word on Borgesi and Ligambi going to them speakeasys after they got busted. Dave and George need to step up there game.
Personally I think Dave needs to get a life he's pretty much a wanna be George. Anastasia is much better.
Hearing what you guys are saying about George A and Shratweiser, but you know they cant win with us. If they report nothing, we rip them. If they put out a repetitive fluff piece, we rip them. I truly believe that they arent holding anything back. Seems to me, they dont have a good anonymous source on the street like they used to in the Merlino days. Cough, cough, George Borgesi. IMO
Hearing what you guys are saying about George A and Shratweiser, but you know they cant win with us. If they report nothing, we rip them. If they put out a repetitive fluff piece, we rip them. I truly believe that they arent holding anything back. Seems to me, they dont have a good anonymous source on the street like they used to in the Merlino days. Cough, cough, George Borgesi. IMO
I think a few of them learned their lesson talking to the media. Angelo Lutz got 9 years and then came out to open a restaurant and do weight loss commericals
yeah i agree dave is so annoying, i cant stand him and he tries so hard. George is much more laid back . Damn i wish they kept the comment section to , it was fun to read. wish someone had some copies
John Alite offered testimony on the hit on Johnny "Gongs" Casasanto. Anthony Nicodemo's Philadelphia murder trial ended in a mistrial last month.
In addition to the murder for which he currently faces charges, Nicodemo has been identified as a suspect in the 2003 murder of John "Johnny Gongs" Casasanto. Law enforcement sources have said that the young mob soldier could work out a deal using his supposed information regarding the Casasanto murder and other acts of violence, including two additional murders said to be linked to Joseph "Uncle Joe" Ligambi and his top associates.
The other murder victims are Ronnie Turchi, who was hit in 1999, and Raymond “Long John” Martorano, who reached the end of the road in 2002.
In this article we take a look at the three hits that law enforcement would love to pin on Uncle Joe, one of the more successful modern bosses. He is credited with cooling down the Philly underworld following decades of unrest. Departing jail after two of his own two mistrials, Ligambi started talking about retirement.
We include insights that a source from Philadelphia shared with us...
Aside from Nicodemo, authorities reportedly have the names of other people connected to the three shootings, as well as scraps of information that could be used "to build cases" against "Uncle Joe," as George Anastasia wrote. He noted that nothing appears imminent, but that was before the possibility of Nicodemo flipping after losing big time in a trial largely considered unwinnable for one of the "dumbest mob hits ever."
Johnny "Gongs" fancied himself a ladies' man, right up until his pals killed him. Anastasia, in a 2009 article on Philly.com, reported that South Philadelphia mob associate John "Johnny Gongs" Casasanto "was angling to join New York's Gambino crime family in 2002, but a bullet to the back of the head short-circuited that career move.
"None other than John Gotti Jr. backed Casasanto, 35, who hoped to get "straightened out" - formally initiated - after befriending the mob boss while they were inmates in a federal detention center in New York state, according to a key government witness."
John Alite, the prosecution's star witness in the then-ongoing racketeering trial of Gotti Jr. in federal court in New York City, offered the information.
Alite told authorities that, during his stay in South Jersey, he met with Casasanto several times in 2002 as well as with various leaders of the Philadelphia mob, including those suspected of ordering Casasanto's murder in November 2003.
Alite said Gotti "set up appointments for me with the bosses in Philly," including Joseph "Skinny Joey" Merlino and Ralph Natale in 1995.
Alite said he met with Casasanto several times after Casasanto came home from prison in 2002.
Alite had served time with Casasanto at a federal prison in Allenwood, Pa., in the mid-1990s. Later Casasanto was transferred to Ray Brook, N.Y., where he met Gotti.
Alite said Gotti sent messages from prison through Casasanto's brother, Steven, who would visit Gotti and Casasanto there.
Testifying at the Gotti trial, Alite said that after Casasanto was released from prison he had sought from Alite an introduction to New York. According to Casasanto, Gotti wanted Alite to bring him to New York "to introduce him to a couple of guys . . . to get him straightened out," Alite testified. Alite said he confirmed that was true through other Gambino family associates who had heard from Gotti Jr.
But Alite said he didn't go along with the program. "I met with him after that and I said, 'Johnny, you'll get killed in New York. Every corner there's guys, not like in Philly where there's only one crew. And they fight each other all the time.'
"He was a wild kid . . . and he didn't understand the life, not New York gangster life. He might have understood the mob life in Philly. It's a big difference."
Anastasia noted: "According to those investigating his death, he was killed by people he trusted. Authorities believe he let two associates into his rowhouse on Durfor Street around 2 a.m. on Nov. 22, 2003. Minutes later he was shot in the back of the head."
Alite said he had met with Ligambi in Haddon Township, in the law office of M.W. "Mike" Pinsky, who had represented Ligambi and Alite.
Ligambi and his associates asked Alite several questions about Casasanto, "including questions about [his] behavior in prison."
Alite said he and other inmates suspected Casasanto was a jailhouse informant.
"Casasanto, who was sentenced to 97 months on a racketeering charge in 1994, was a mob outsider when he came home in 2002. He had sided with crime boss John Stanfa in the mid-1990s during a bloody war with the faction of the mob that Ligambi reputedly now heads," Anastasia wrote.
Considered a hothead, he returned to South Philadelphia where he got into bar fights and a stabbing. He also was suspected of dealing drugs and shaking down local bar and restaurant owners.
A ladies' man, his relationships with the girlfriends or wives of other mobsters created friction within the underworld and added another potential motive for his death, authorities have said.
As if he didn't have enough of those...
Turchi was found in his wife's trunk.
A Philadelphia source told Cosa Nostra News: "Johnny Gongs was a little renegade... he was a neighborhood guy who got too big for his britches and started running his mouth off that he was fucking [a former mob boss's ex-wife]. There you have it -- the dysfunctional philly mob."
Hit on Turchi Was Classic... There is no shortage of theories regarding the 1999 brutal gangland hit of Ronald Turchi, either, a convicted arsonist and one-time Mafia consigliere busted to capo in the mid-1990s. In and out of prison, the troubled mobster was found in the trunk of his wife's car in South Philadelphia.
He was found around noon on Passyunk Avenue near Christian Street. Turchi, naked, was shot twice in the back of the head, over which a white blood-filled plastic bag had been pulled. His hands and feet were tied with white rope.
"It was reminiscent of many mob hits of the 1980s," wrote Philly.com.
Turchi was considered an ally of one-time mob boss Ralph Natale, who, it was later learned, only was boss following the abrupt violent reign of Sicilian boss John Stanfa because Joseph "Skinny Joey" Merlino and his crew of young turks who went to war with Stanfa wanted a "front boss" to keep the heat off of themselves.
Natale flipped shortly before the Turchi slaying. On the stand in February 2001, Natale said that Turchi was killed for trying to pull a bizarre move: He had paid $10,000 to a high-ranking Gambino to "buy" the position of Philadelphia mob boss.
A source told us: "Ralph was a stone cold killer but he was even a bigger liar... Joey ran the show back then and he still has guys in top positions that are loyal... As for Ron Turchi he was playing both sides, giving Stanfa info on Joey's crew and giving Joey info on John's crew. .. Ralph and Joey were on the way up after Stanfa was arrested. They might have promised Ron something, but they didn't want to share the wealth; there lies the problem. When Ralph was locked up again Turchi wanted to make a move against the younger crew. Some say Uncle Joe wasn't having any of that had him clipped.
"Turchi was always talking about being boss some day to certain people but as far as the $10,000 he didnt have 2 cents to rub together; he was a degenerate gambler. It was later learned he was working as an informant... another reason he was killed."
Turchi once controlled the lucrative numbers operation in South Philadelphia and was reported to have been circulating in gambling circles in South Philadelphia.
He'd been inducted into the Mafia in the early 1990s by then-mob boss John Stanfa. Turchi later switched sides in the middle of a 1993 mob war.
After Stanfa was arrested in 1994 and Natale took over the local mob with New York's approval, Natale elevated Turchi to consigliere. The two apparently had a falling out over a year later, however, and Turchi was busted down to capo in 1996.
During testimony in Merlino's trial one mob informant linked Ligambi toTurchi's slaying.
Long John Didn't Step Aside... Raymond "Long John" Martorano, an aging mobster and one-time major moneymaker, was shot and critically wounded on Jan. 17, 2002.
Martorano, 74, was in his car and about to drive to a doctor's appointment that afternoon, when two
Ray "Long John" Martorano was supposed to retire. He didn't. So they whacked him while he was driving. It took him three weeks to die. gunmen ran up on him and opened fire. He was hit several times in the chest and arms, but managed to drive the six blocks to his doctor's office before crashing his Lincoln Towncar into a fire hydrant.
He remained in critical condiction for three weeks and died on Feb. 5.
A police officer who talked to Martorano said the dying mobster didn't know who had shot him.
One law-enforcement source believed the shooting was connected to an attempt by Martorano to reestablish himself in the underworld.
Martorano was once a major methamphetamine dealer. A source told Philly.com that the veteran mob soldier had been trying to move into the gambling business in South Philadelphia since his release from prison in 1999.
"He can't help himself," said an underworld source. "It's like people who can't retire. They have to have something to do. There's money in gambling. It's the easiest and it's the best money."
Federal and state investigators said that acting mob boss Joseph Ligambi had taken control of the gambling operations in Merlino's absence. Martorano and Ligambi, 62, were both soldiers under mob boss Nicodemo "Little Nicky" Scarfo in the early 1980s. Both were convicted of gangland murders, and both were released from prison after those convictions were overturned.
While in prison, Martorano reportedly had a falling out with Scarfo.
Martorano served more than 17 years in prison on drug-trafficking and murder charges before his release in November 1999. The release came after the Pennsylvania Supreme Court upheld a lower court ruling overturning his 1984 conviction in the murder of Philadelphia Roofers Union boss John McCullough. The conviction was tossed out based on prosecutorial misconduct.
Martorano once owned a popular South Philadelphia restaurant, Cous' Little Italy at 11th and Christian Streets. He also served as point man for the mob in its control of the South Jersey Bartenders' Union in the late 1970s and early 1980s.
Martorano had been an associate of mob boss Angelo Bruno in the 1960s and 1970s. Bruno, who was killed in 1980, was a salesman for John's Vending, a cigarette-vending machine company run by Martorano and his brother.
Our source told us: "Long John was from the old regime and had no respect for nobody and started stepping on the wrong toes. He had no help to make a move... all his guys were in jail or dead. They were letting him earn... "
He then named a capo and soldier in Philadelphia who were responsible for carrying out the hit. We won't name the two here.
JMack where are you getting that from? I assume bc that crew was on the street at the time of Long John? There were more on the street in 99' I think almost everyone
JMack where are you getting that from? I assume bc that crew was on the street at the time of Long John? There were more on the street in 99' I think almost everyone
Exactly. They were the only ones on the street in 02 with that kind of potential. Oddly enough I heard a rumor a while back that one of long Johns shooters was gongs. Again take that for what it's worth.
The capo/ soldier they are talking about have to be a combo of lance, nics, lucibello, and dame.
I agree. I would also think it was either Mikey Lance, Dame, or Nicodemo. Im nor sure about Lucibello but hey its possible.
The reason I said lucibello as well was because there was talk for the gongs hit that tony gags drove the car. Gags reported to lucibello when he was alive and on the street. Just a thought.
JMack where are you getting that from? I assume bc that crew was on the street at the time of Long John? There were more on the street in 99' I think almost everyone
Exactly. They were the only ones on the street in 02 with that kind of potential. Oddly enough I heard a rumor a while back that one of long Johns shooters was gongs. Again take that for what it's worth.
Yeah it's pretty widley believed that's Gongs and his brother were the two guys that shot Long John, and if I'm not mistaken after the hit Johnny Gongs was bragging that it was him who clipped Martorano
JMack where are you getting that from? I assume bc that crew was on the street at the time of Long John? There were more on the street in 99' I think almost everyone
Exactly. They were the only ones on the street in 02 with that kind of potential. Oddly enough I heard a rumor a while back that one of long Johns shooters was gongs. Again take that for what it's worth.
Yeah it's pretty widley believed that's Gongs and his brother were the two guys that shot Long John, and if I'm not mistaken after the hit Johnny Gongs was bragging that it was him who clipped Martorano
He was talking about it and he wasn't listening to the admin was trying to run schemes with ny guys ( plus going up there as well) and held out on everyone else
yea Johnny Gongs was wild and in a league of his own. I wonder if Steve Casasanto got his button or if he is just an associate. He must be made or why else would he do the hit on Long John. I know I wouldnt if I wasnt gettin made for it. But Steve seems like he is a lot smarter then his brother. Johnny gongs was already beefin with a lot of people and then he goes around braggin about long john, no wonder they shot his ass. I still think it was Nicodemo and Canalichio who did Johnny Gongs.
you have Sonny Mazzone on far left.. Ant Nicodemo on left sitting down. With Mike Lancellotti and Joey Merlino standing behind Nicodemo. It Looks like Marty Angelina on the right with the short shorts standing up hahaha!
looks like uncle jr. always the way to the right. that's one thing merlino got charm. people love taking photo with the guy. im start to think he may have steped down as boss like baby shacks was trying to do in new England. cause he new he was going to jail. but also baby shacks steped down as boss but kept his little shake down of the strips clubs for himself till the fbi put him away.
that's is pretty weird that guy steve gongs is taking picss with philly guys who are reported to killed his brother. but theres only 1 family in town so he got no choice but to be loyal, look at all the crazy shit scarfo did to some of these guys fathers and uncles and they still wanted there button. the 2 brothers who killed each other or attemped too.
that's is pretty weird that guy steve gongs is taking picss with philly guys who are reported to killed his brother. but theres only 1 family in town so he got no choice but to be loyal, look at all the crazy shit scarfo did to some of these guys fathers and uncles and they still wanted there button. the 2 brothers who killed each other or attemped too.
Stevie Gongs is part of the same crew. He knew his brother got what was coming to him. Steve probably just happy he didnt get clipped too.
Steve Mazzone with the thick goatee behind sonny. He used to be pretty beefy. He's in better shape now then in his late 20s
Are you sure thats Steve Mazzone behind Sonny? I know Steve was heavier back in the days but didnt think he was that heavy. and Sonny is like 5-6 inches taller then Stevie. I dont think its Steve at all honestly.
So what are people thinking /saying is Uncle Joe sitting back now and more of a consigliere and Stevie still acting boss and highest guy in Philly? Wonder if any new guys have been made lately ? And especially the guys that Joe said he will wait for Merlino.
Steve Mazzone with the thick goatee behind sonny. He used to be pretty beefy. He's in better shape now then in his late 20s
Are you sure thats Steve Mazzone behind Sonny? I know Steve was heavier back in the days but didnt think he was that heavy. and Sonny is like 5-6 inches taller then Stevie. I dont think its Steve at all honestly.
There's a guy named William Andrews who just got put away for about 15 years for selling pills. He was a 10th and O guy. Also linked to mousie and some pagans. Beyond his case a cpl years ago, you don't hear much press about them.
yea I heard of William Andrews and the whole thing with mousie loaning him money for the drug deal or whatever. I know back in the day it was like the Turra's and Virelli's and all them but I was just curious as to what other 10th and O guys are still around making money.
Philadelphia City Council Votes to Decriminalize Marijuana
If signed into law, the bill would allow Philadelphia police to issue $25 tickets for possession of up to an ounce of weed.
By Dan McQuade | June 19, 2014 at 4:45 pm
[UPDATE: 4:40 p.m.] According to Councilman Jim Kenney’s director of legislation, Jim Engler, as per the Philadelphia Charter, Mayor Nutter does not have to take action on the just-passed marijuana decriminalization bill until Council is back in session in September. (The mayor has the option to sign or veto the bill, or do nothing which would also result in the bill becoming law without his official endorsement.)
“We’re writing a letter to the mayor asking him, since the voice of council has been heard and the bill has been approved by more than 12 members, that he begin implementing the bill and policy change as soon as possible,” says Engler.
The bill includes a three-month time period before it becomes law, which Engler says is something that is normally done with bills that require implementation. "Instead of waiting and twiddling our thumbs all summer long, we're asking that if he's going to make a decision one way or another, he should let us know now."
You can breathe a little easier today, stoners, and not just because you probably are into vaping now. Philadelphia City Council voted today to decriminalize the possession of up to an ounce of weed. Even the heaviest stoners rarely buy more than an ounce at a time, so this bill is good news for Philadelphia potheads from the casual smoker to the wake-and-bake stoner.
The bill was first introduced by Councilman Jim Kenney in May. Under Kenney's bill, Philadelphians caught with up to an ounce (30 grams) of marijuana would not be arrested. After they paid a $25 fine, they'd have the charge expunged from their record. (Presumably, their weed would also be confiscated.) Since June 2010, Philadelphia has treated possession of up to an ounce of weed as a summary offense punishable with a $200 fine and a three-hour class on drug abuse.
"After discussions with Philadelphia’s criminal justice stakeholders, my requests to end mandatory custodial arrests — i.e. handcuffs and a night in jail — were deemed an 'administrative burden' on our courts and police,” Kenney told NBC10.com in May. “Public officials shouldn’t be worried about ‘administrative burdens’ when our inaction is senselessly burdening over 4,000 people with life-changing criminal records each year.”
Two Republican members of City Council, Dennis O’Brien and David Oh, spoke out against the bill. O'Brien suggested the law could eventually lead to “assaults on police officers.”
Philadelphia's decriminalization bill is similar to Washington D.C.'s, which passed last month. In testimony before City Council earlier this month, NORML's Chris Goldstein noted blacks were arrested at five times the rates of whites for marijuana possession in 2012. People aged 18 to 34 made up 75 percent of marijuana arrests that year.
In a 2011 Daily News story, DA Seth Williams said before 2010 the city was "spending thousands of dollars for when someone possessed $10 or $15 worth of weed." (In that article, ex-DA Lynne Abraham said potheads are committing "untold numbers of crimes" to support their habit and compared smoking weed to driving 100 miles per hour.)
The bill passed, 13-3. Mayor Nutter's office has said he opposes the bill. The bill passed with enough votes to override a potential mayoral veto.
If only other States followed examples like that. Y should the cops waste time chasing around ppl who hav a couple of grams on them its so stupid! Im surprise since with all the stuff happening in Colorado and Washignton State that States r not going quicker to a hands off approach I live in NYS and there still arguing about Medical Marijuana! still! Hate da Polotics in this Country! Safer then Alcohol!! hopefully only time will tell how things change or move forward! The damn politicians should know ppl r in favor of change and a hands off approach! Well c! Hopefully that passes in Philly!
Two Republican members of City Council, Dennis O’Brien and David Oh, spoke out against the bill. O'Brien suggested the law could eventually lead to “assaults on police officers.”
in other news, o'brien has expressed what he calls undisputable facts that masturbation causes blindness, the earth is flat and that witchcraft was responsible for hurricane sandy.
they should take (C)unts like this and force feed them an entire cherry bomb, lock them in a dark room for 48 hours and let them reexamine the root causes of their foolishness! if they survive,
Two Republican members of City Council, Dennis O’Brien and David Oh, spoke out against the bill. O'Brien suggested the law could eventually lead to “assaults on police officers.”
in other news, o'brien has expressed what he calls undisputable facts that masturbation causes blindness, the earth is flat and that witchcraft was responsible for hurricane sandy.
they should take (C)unts like this and force feed them an entire cherry bomb, lock them in a dark room for 48 hours and let them reexamine the root causes of their foolishness! if they survive,
FF, I don't get some of these government chuckleheads,have they learned nothing from prohibition?
Yes, today is the 25th anniversary of Skinny Joey dressed up as Batman gunning down Nicky Scarfo Jr. at dante and Luigi's in South Philly. Look where both men are at now in life 25 years later.....Scarfo Jr may spend the rest of his natural life in prison and Skinny Joey has spent a majority of his life in prison and is now under constant FBI scrutiny.
Not to sound like a fan boy of joey.. but 25 years later joey clearly on top.. its yet to be seen if joey does more time besides the violation.. but joey ended ne s carfo power. He made jr look like a lil bitch chase him away jr basically got made into the luchesse be cuz of his dad relationship wit Vic.. jr got demoted. Joey basically been the face of Philly the last 20 years. And u forget daunte moltisante these guys chose this life they wanted to be gangsters 25 years ago there gangsters today. Not to say jr isn't smart at all he is.. but this attempted hit 25 years ago put joey on the Map as a top dawg. If joey spends the rest of his life outta jail besides the violation joey Fed comes uo on top. It kills little nicky Sr. That joey in control of the family and how joey embarrassed them and he can't do jack bout it.. so. This solidify joey
You have guys blowing Merlino, massaging his ego, praising him as a mastermind and bigging him up as the cerebral boss of Philly and simultaneously CRITICISING the Feds for not LEAVING HIM ALONE and SCRUTINISING him too much. Even though he was still UNDER PAROLE when he was surveilled blatantly (and stupidly) violating it by meeting with known felons and even though he refuses to report his lavish income which he blatantly (and stupidly) flaunts.
I mean if people can't see the irony and hypocrisy of that, then I give up.
Do people understand how parole works?
The dwarf could at least have waited a few weeks or months for his restrictions to end before the groundswell of opposition to a tame prison sentence started.
I know its was stupid to meet in public or even them meeting at all but the Feds violate wise guys all the time. Sometimes on the last week of you can't beat the feds just try and stay a few moves ahead
You have guys blowing Merlino, massaging his ego, praising him as a mastermind and bigging him up as the cerebral boss of Philly and simultaneously CRITICISING the Feds for not LEAVING HIM ALONE and SCRUTINISING him too much. Even though he was still UNDER PAROLE when he was surveilled blatantly (and stupidly) violating it by meeting with known felons and even though he refuses to report his lavish income which he blatantly (and stupidly) flaunts.
I mean if people can't see the irony and hypocrisy of that, then I give up.
Do people understand how parole works?
The dwarf could at least have waited a few weeks or months for his restrictions to end before the groundswell of opposition to a tame prison sentence started.
youre best to just ignore Moe. By being on the "opposite" end of the spectrum (dwarf, stupidly) you're giving as much energy as the fan boys. ignore, ignore, ignore. if everyone ignores pretty soon its a convo of 5 fanboys agreeing. why bicker back and forth. no one ever gives in or changes their perspective. all it does is make these pages longer and longer.
fuckem, hes just another criminal going back to jail to me. is it fucked up he will get followed forever regardless of criminal activity or not? sure, but when you have the history he does there's no one to blame but himself.
youre best to just ignore Moe. By being on the "opposite" end of the spectrum you're giving as much energy as the fan boys. ignore, ignore, ignore. if everyone ignores pretty soon its a convo of 5 fanboys agreeing. why bicker back and forth. no one ever gives in or changes their perspective. all it does is make these pages longer and longer.
And to defend myself cuz I feel the finger pointing in my direction I'm not glorifying anything joey did or ne thing I'm giving an opinion like how some ppl say gotti was a bad boss or chin and gambino were the best giving an opinion the previous poster who posted before me said where r these guys 25 years later.. and I was comparing Nicky Jr to Merlino and acorse Merlino is a tougher gangster.. for joey to beat murder raps and other charges and to do the stuff he did and basically for now get away it is crazy to me.. When Stand a tried to hit Merlino Merlino retaliated wit the expressway shooting.. Nicky Jr was in the Luchesse family and never retaliated against joey sounds like joey had him scared shitless had the scarfos on the run that's my opinion.. joey has more balls then some NY guys that's for sure.. So its my humble option halloween 89 put joey on the map. No glorification we r comparing gangsters and mafia members this is a mafia message board... ps. Dont join the mafia
And to defend myself cuz I feel the finger pointing in my direction I'm not glorifying anything joey did
I don't think that at all, Buddy. I think you're fairly level headed when it comes to this stuff.
But as far as this goes:
Originally Posted By: jipjones
Nicky Jr was in the Luchesse family and never retaliated against joey sounds like joey had him scared shitless had the scarfos on the run that's my opinion.. joey has more balls then some NY guys that's for sure.
That stuff all preceded Scarfo Jr. getting made by the Luccheses, and none of it happened in New York. Because balls or no balls, if Merlino pulled that shit back in the late '80s or early '90s, when New York still resembled Canada and Sicily (as far as violence went), and if he pulled it here, you'd be posting about the 25th anniversary of his execution instead of a failed mob hit.
I also think that Joey went away at the right time (2001-2002, right?). That's right around the time the violence was seriously curbed. And I'm not implying that Scarfo Jr. isn't afraid of Merlino. I don't know him from a hole in the wall. He probably is scared of him. But if he had gotten his button in Jersey under one of the Taccettas, or even the Pernas, and he got popped AFTER he got his button, then Joey Merlino would have had a problem than he couldn't have handled.
And I hope you're taking notice that I'm using the Jersey branch of the Luccheses as the example here. If I brought up the Bronx or Harlem factions of that family I'd probably sound like a "homer." And if you know me at all, you know I really hate that shit.
PB is 100% correct. Forget jersey, NY would have immediately gave the order-approval to have Merlino killed and he would have been gone. I'm a jersey guy but jersey does whatever the guys up in the bronx and westchester tell them to do. Merlino can do time and has balls, no doubt. that said, if he was in new york, no one would ever even know who he was, thats a fact. He is a very big fish in a small pond. Although i do give him credit, he is stand up all the way.
I would b scared of a guy that shot me 5 times on Halloweenight...no matter how many years ago! Scarfo jr.is lucky to b alive never mind the trouble he is in.
What makes you guys so sure merlino would have gotten clipped if he was in new york...didnt john gotti kill the don and lived to tell about it?
Merlino didn't have a power base like Gotti did. Like PB said, if some young kid tried that crap in NYC I have no doubt either he would have been popped quick.
It would be like Gotti Jr. trying to make a power play while his Dad was still a Capo and expecting to live. Just my two cents.
PB is 100% correct. Forget jersey, NY would have immediately gave the order-approval to have Merlino killed and he would have been gone. I'm a jersey guy but jersey does whatever the guys up in the bronx and westchester tell them to do. Merlino can do time and has balls, no doubt. that said, if he was in new york, no one would ever even know who he was, thats a fact. He is a very big fish in a small pond. Although i do give him credit, he is stand up all the way.
Merlino seems capable of being moderately successful regardless of the family he belongs too. He is tough and has a way of attracting a following of criminals. But he definitely wouldn't be much of a shotcaller in NYC.
What makes you guys so sure merlino would have gotten clipped if he was in new york...didnt john gotti kill the don and lived to tell about it?
Merlino didn't have a power base like Gotti did. Like PB said, if some young kid tried that crap in NYC I have no doubt either he would have been popped quick.
It would be like Gotti Jr. trying to make a power play while his Dad was still a Capo and expecting to live. Just my two cents.
Right on point. Gotti had already been a captain for some years when he made his move against Castellano. And although he wasn't made until '77, he was a de facto made guy at least five years prior to that. Point being, he had more than twenty years on the street when he hit Paul.
And furthermore, contrary to the opinion of many, Paul WAS hated by a lot of guys in that family. Gotti had the ear of half of them. So sanctioned or not, Gotti had A LOT of shooters behind him.
And I wasn't even crazy about Gotti. The guy did a lot of stupid things as a boss. But as usual, this is turning into a geographical pissing match (NY, NJ, Philly, etc.). Because at the end of the day, Gotti died in prison. And I have a hunch that Merlino may do likewise. But only time will tell on that one.
Bottom line: At the time, Joey Merlino was a 20 something year old kid who only got his button because of his father (and don't get me wrong, he DID prove himself later, but that's neither here nor there). But if he hit the son of an imprisoned NY boss during that time frame (October 1989), he wouldn't have seen 1990. And that's all I'm trying to say here.
I think Belmont's "big fish-little pond" analogy is appropriate because Merlino proved himself to be a capable leader in a small family. And he's a stand-up guy who did his time like a man. When that nitwit troublemaker started a thread here calling him a rat, I was the first one to nip it in the bud. He wouldn't let things go, and he's no longer a member here.
Beyond all that, who knows? I hope the guy retires and enjoys Florida. Everyone knows how much I love it there myself .
What makes you guys so sure merlino would have gotten clipped if he was in new york...didnt john gotti kill the don and lived to tell about it?
Merlino didn't have a power base like Gotti did. Like PB said, if some young kid tried that crap in NYC I have no doubt either he would have been popped quick.
It would be like Gotti Jr. trying to make a power play while his Dad was still a Capo and expecting to live. Just my two cents.
Right on point. Gotti had already been a captain for some years when he made his move against Castellano. And although he wasn't made until '77, he was a de facto made guy at least five years prior to that. Point being, he had more than twenty years on the street when he hit Paul.
And furthermore, contrary to the opinion of many, Paul WAS hated by a lot of guys in that family. Gotti had the ear of half of them. So sanctioned or not, Gotti had A LOT of shooters behind him.
And I wasn't even crazy about Gotti. The guy did a lot of stupid things as a boss. But as usual, this is turning into a geographical pissing match (NY, NJ, Philly, etc.). Because at the end of the day, Gotti died in prison. And I have a hunch that Merlino may do likewise. But only time will tell on that one.
Bottom line: At the time, Joey Merlino was a 20 something year old kid who only got his button because of his father (and don't get me wrong, he DID prove himself later, but that's neither here nor there). But if he hit the son of an imprisoned NY boss during that time frame (October 1989), he wouldn't have seen 1990. And that's all I'm trying to say here.
I think Belmont's "big fish-little pond" analogy is appropriate because Merlino proved himself to be a capable leader in a small family. And he's a stand-up guy who did his time like a man. When that nitwit troublemaker started a thread here calling him a rat, I was the first one to nip it in the bud. He wouldn't let things go, and he's no longer a member here.
Beyond all that, who knows? I hope the guy retires and enjoys Florida. Everyone knows how much I love it there myself .
I'm not here to argue I just want to point out that when Merlino hit scarfo he wasn't made yet, he was not made while his dad was underboss he got made by Stanfa in 93 I think. Long after Chuckie was in jail and most people believe it was more of a keep your friends close and your enemies closer kind of move by Stanfa. Obviously it was a big mistake on Stanfas part.
Posted: 6:13 p.m. Friday, Oct. 31, 2014 By Jane Musgrave Palm Beach Post Staff Writer
WEST PALM BEACH — A Boca Raton man, best known as an opportunist who played both sides in the steroid investigation of disgraced baseball great Alex Rodriguez, pleaded guilty Friday to charges unrelated to Major League Baseball’s doping scandal.
In a confident voice that rang out in the near-empty federal courtroom, Gary Lee Jones admitted he sold thousands of counterfeit Xanax pills worth as much as $30,000 to undercover officers who were investigating him and two other South Florida men earlier this year.
Jones, who served time in Connecticut for passing counterfeit money in the 1990s, also admitted that, as a felon, he shouldn’t have possessed an AK-47. According to court documents, he sold the high-powered, semi-automatic weapon to an undercover officer for $1,000.
While the two charges carry a maximum 30-year term, Jones faces less than five years in prison when he is sentenced in January.
The tall, burly 55-year-old, who remains free on a $250,000 bond, declined comment on his connection to the investigation that led to Rodriguez’s year-long suspension from baseball.
“Happy Halloween,” he called out as he left the courthouse. Then, patting his sizable stomach, he added: “Don’t eat too much candy or you’ll end up like me.”
Jones grabbed headlines two years ago when it was reported that information he provided baseball investigators led to the downfall of Rodriguez and other baseball players for using performance-enhancing drugs.
A league investigator he met at a diner in Pompano Beach paid him $125,000 in cash for documents that showed Rodriguez had been a regular customer of Biogenesis’ anti-aging clinic in Coral Gables. Jones had a buddy record the exchange with his iPhone. Jones later sold the video to the former Yankees’ third-baseman for $200,000, according to published reports.
Despite his reported payoffs, Jones is represented by a public defender. Court records don’t indicate why he qualified for a tax-paid lawyer. As part of his plea deal, Jones agreed to forfeit $7,500 and a 1991 Mercedes-Benz.
The wide-ranging investigation that led to the arrests of Jones, Frank Fiore and Anthony Carbone, another bit player in the Biogenesis scandal, ran into trouble before agents charged the three with multiple felonies for allegedly selling phony Xanax, Ecstasy, and Viagra along with cocaine and weapons. One of the undercover agents, Palm Beach County Sheriff’s investigator Joaquin Fonseca Jr., was charged with official misconduct and possession of cocaine in an unrelated case. A snitch also was arrested.
Still, as they did with Jones, prosecutors negotiated plea deals with Carbone and Fiore, court records show. The owner of Havana Nights Cigar Bar and Lounge in Boca Raton, Fiore met with well-known mobsters and asked undercover officers to kill one person and break the legs of his brother-in-law, agents said.
Fiore, 60, of Parkland, is expected to appear in court soon to officially change his plea, records show. Carbone, 55, already has pleaded guilty to two of the 17 drug distribution charges he once faced. He is to be sentenced in December.
I'm not here to argue I just want to point out that when Merlino hit scarfo he wasn't made yet, he was not made while his dad was underboss he got made by Stanfa in 93 I think.
I understand that. But it only bolsters my argument. Because if Chuckie Merlino wasn't his father, I doubt that Joey would have survived that whole mess. And like I said, he did go on to prove himself. But that all came later.
I stand by my position: If the unmade son of a wiseguy hit the son of an imprisoned boss in New York back then (1989), he wouldn't have lived to see the new decade.
Sorry I'm not to techy to figure out how to post the picture of the chart on here
Just a heads up, don't click on the chart itself for any reason, its got a virus attached to it according to my antivirus software.
NNY78, there should be no virus attached to that chart. That's the chart I made this summer and posted here on the forum. I don't know why your anti-virus is showing that there is a virus on the file. I created the file myself, and uploaded it to my own personal server when I posted it here in the summer. I uploaded it to the Philly family wiki on that Mafia Wiki website a few weeks ago.
Someone on the next page asked how accurate the chart is. I wasn't sure how to add multiple quotes into my reply. My answer is this - I can't represent the chart to be fully 100% accurate. I created the chart using all of the research I've done on the Philly family, and based it off of the last chart that was made in 2010/2011. Some of it, like the Narducci faction, is speculation from some of the people I've talked to from Philly; I originally never had Phil or any of that crew on the chart. The hierarchy came from one of Scott Burnstein's Mafia Insider reports. It took me quite some time to put together and create the chart and I am pretty proud of it, but nobody who makes these charts can ever claim that they are 100% accurate. A little bit of speculation always factors into it.
Sorry I'm not to techy to figure out how to post the picture of the chart on here
Just a heads up, don't click on the chart itself for any reason, its got a virus attached to it according to my antivirus software.
The chart is also posted at the top of the forum, in the New York and other mafia family charts (UPDATED) thread on the very last page. I've had it up since August, and there is also a link in that thread to the file of the chart that is hosted on my own personal server if you are worried about the Mafia Wiki page showing a virus on your anti-virus software.
For the guy who posted the link and you guys who saw the chart, it will look a little bit different. I updated it yesterday and made a few changes now that Lucibello is out of prison and into a halfway house. Some people convinced me to put Sonny Mazzone as the acting capo for Staino back when I posted the chart in the summer, and there is absolutely no evidence suggesting or proving that he is a capo so I removed that and placed him back at soldier.
I'm not here to argue I just want to point out that when Merlino hit scarfo he wasn't made yet, he was not made while his dad was underboss he got made by Stanfa in 93 I think.
I understand that. But it only bolsters my argument. Because if Chuckie Merlino wasn't his father, I doubt that Joey would have survived that whole mess. And like I said, he did go on to prove himself. But that all came later.
I stand by my position: If the unmade son of a wiseguy hit the son of an imprisoned boss in New York back then (1989), he wouldn't have lived to see the new decade.
I agree with your position if it happened in New York he'd be dead. But I honestly don't beleive his father played any part in keeping him alive. Chuckie didn't have any influence by then. I really think Joey just got lucky I mean they did try to hit him like a dozen times and he's still here.
I also don't beleive Tony Piccolo was gonna give George Fresolone a contract for Joey like he claimed in his book. That's guys book was so inaccurate it's almost hard to beleive he even was made that is if he didn't wear a wire when it happened. In his book he even says that Chuckie was whacked and that's why Joey shot Nicky's son.
Do you guys think staino remained on as capo even after he denounced the family in court?
I don't know anything about that particular case. But as a general rule, these guys seem to acknowledge the existence of the mob in their pleas all the time nowadays.
He's an Internet troll with no life who comes here over and over and over with the sole intent of baiting old adversaries and eventually getting thrown off the site again.
Hey, you just signed up today. Welcome to the board .
I'm not here to argue I just want to point out that when Merlino hit scarfo he wasn't made yet, he was not made while his dad was underboss he got made by Stanfa in 93 I think.
I understand that. But it only bolsters my argument. Because if Chuckie Merlino wasn't his father, I doubt that Joey would have survived that whole mess. And like I said, he did go on to prove himself. But that all came later.
I stand by my position: If the unmade son of a wiseguy hit the son of an imprisoned boss in New York back then (1989), he wouldn't have lived to see the new decade.
But I honestly don't beleive his father played any part in keeping him alive. Chuckie didn't have any influence by then.
Sorry I'm not to techy to figure out how to post the picture of the chart on here
Just a heads up, don't click on the chart itself for any reason, its got a virus attached to it according to my antivirus software.
NNY78, there should be no virus attached to that chart. That's the chart I made this summer and posted here on the forum. I don't know why your anti-virus is showing that there is a virus on the file. I created the file myself, and uploaded it to my own personal server when I posted it here in the summer. I uploaded it to the Philly family wiki on that Mafia Wiki website a few weeks ago.
Someone on the next page asked how accurate the chart is. I wasn't sure how to add multiple quotes into my reply. My answer is this - I can't represent the chart to be fully 100% accurate. I created the chart using all of the research I've done on the Philly family, and based it off of the last chart that was made in 2010/2011. Some of it, like the Narducci faction, is speculation from some of the people I've talked to from Philly; I originally never had Phil or any of that crew on the chart. The hierarchy came from one of Scott Burnstein's Mafia Insider reports. It took me quite some time to put together and create the chart and I am pretty proud of it, but nobody who makes these charts can ever claim that they are 100% accurate. A little bit of speculation always factors into it.
I was the one that asked about the accuracy of the chart. The Borgesi's spots and Narducci and his crew is where I have a couple of questions. the first being how Georgie got bumped so far down, the second is that is Anthony really made? and third is in regards to the entire Narducci crew. I thought there was question to whether or not The Narducci's were still active and when I read thru the list I noticed how many Scarfo guys are in his crew.....that seems like a dangerous move to me seeing how big of a disconnect the Merlino and Scarfo guys have. but I guess Ligambi is technically both and can probably help mediate any disputes. and thanks for the link, accurate or not its appreciated.
What makes you guys so sure merlino would have gotten clipped if he was in new york...didnt john gotti kill the don and lived to tell about it?
Merlino didn't have a power base like Gotti did. Like PB said, if some young kid tried that crap in NYC I have no doubt either he would have been popped quick.
It would be like Gotti Jr. trying to make a power play while his Dad was still a Capo and expecting to live. Just my two cents.
Right on point. Gotti had already been a captain for some years when he made his move against Castellano. And although he wasn't made until '77, he was a de facto made guy at least five years prior to that. Point being, he had more than twenty years on the street when he hit Paul.
And furthermore, contrary to the opinion of many, Paul WAS hated by a lot of guys in that family. Gotti had the ear of half of them. So sanctioned or not, Gotti had A LOT of shooters behind him.
And I wasn't even crazy about Gotti. The guy did a lot of stupid things as a boss. But as usual, this is turning into a geographical pissing match (NY, NJ, Philly, etc.). Because at the end of the day, Gotti died in prison. And I have a hunch that Merlino may do likewise. But only time will tell on that one.
Bottom line: At the time, Joey Merlino was a 20 something year old kid who only got his button because of his father (and don't get me wrong, he DID prove himself later, but that's neither here nor there). But if he hit the son of an imprisoned NY boss during that time frame (October 1989), he wouldn't have seen 1990. And that's all I'm trying to say here.
I think Belmont's "big fish-little pond" analogy is appropriate because Merlino proved himself to be a capable leader in a small family. And he's a stand-up guy who did his time like a man. When that nitwit troublemaker started a thread here calling him a rat, I was the first one to nip it in the bud. He wouldn't let things go, and he's no longer a member here.
Beyond all that, who knows? I hope the guy retires and enjoys Florida. Everyone knows how much I love it there myself .
you're a fan of axe murderers and people that shoot mac 10s in crowded restaurants?
you'd call him an idiot if he wore sagging pants while endangering innocents
What makes you guys so sure merlino would have gotten clipped if he was in new york...didnt john gotti kill the don and lived to tell about it?
Merlino didn't have a power base like Gotti did. Like PB said, if some young kid tried that crap in NYC I have no doubt either he would have been popped quick.
It would be like Gotti Jr. trying to make a power play while his Dad was still a Capo and expecting to live. Just my two cents.
Right on point. Gotti had already been a captain for some years when he made his move against Castellano. And although he wasn't made until '77, he was a de facto made guy at least five years prior to that. Point being, he had more than twenty years on the street when he hit Paul.
And furthermore, contrary to the opinion of many, Paul WAS hated by a lot of guys in that family. Gotti had the ear of half of them. So sanctioned or not, Gotti had A LOT of shooters behind him.
And I wasn't even crazy about Gotti. The guy did a lot of stupid things as a boss. But as usual, this is turning into a geographical pissing match (NY, NJ, Philly, etc.). Because at the end of the day, Gotti died in prison. And I have a hunch that Merlino may do likewise. But only time will tell on that one.
Bottom line: At the time, Joey Merlino was a 20 something year old kid who only got his button because of his father (and don't get me wrong, he DID prove himself later, but that's neither here nor there). But if he hit the son of an imprisoned NY boss during that time frame (October 1989), he wouldn't have seen 1990. And that's all I'm trying to say here.
I think Belmont's "big fish-little pond" analogy is appropriate because Merlino proved himself to be a capable leader in a small family. And he's a stand-up guy who did his time like a man. When that nitwit troublemaker started a thread here calling him a rat, I was the first one to nip it in the bud. He wouldn't let things go, and he's no longer a member here.
Beyond all that, who knows? I hope the guy retires and enjoys Florida. Everyone knows how much I love it there myself .
you're a fan of axe murderers and people that shoot mac 10s in crowded restaurants?
you'd call him an idiot if he wore sagging pants while endangering innocents
I misjudged you cook, i honestly thought you were a complete moron but you've somehow cracked PB's complex code and came to the conclusion that he's a "fan" of Merlino.
Sorry I'm not to techy to figure out how to post the picture of the chart on here
Just a heads up, don't click on the chart itself for any reason, its got a virus attached to it according to my antivirus software.
The chart is also posted at the top of the forum, in the New York and other mafia family charts (UPDATED) thread on the very last page. I've had it up since August, and there is also a link in that thread to the file of the chart that is hosted on my own personal server if you are worried about the Mafia Wiki page showing a virus on your anti-virus software.
For the guy who posted the link and you guys who saw the chart, it will look a little bit different. I updated it yesterday and made a few changes now that Lucibello is out of prison and into a halfway house. Some people convinced me to put Sonny Mazzone as the acting capo for Staino back when I posted the chart in the summer, and there is absolutely no evidence suggesting or proving that he is a capo so I removed that and placed him back at soldier.
Can you fill us in more on Gennaro Boccia, Martin Curro and Joe Bongiovanni? I have seen these 3 show up in numerous Philly charts over the years but very little info about all 3 on any websites, news stories or word of mouth around here.
You literally took the words out of my mouth Southphilly. I know Bongie did a 20 years stint that began in the 80's, I believe? He's been out for awhile now, yet I've never heard his name mentioned with anything active.
Accardo did a couple years on a plea deal back during the big Merlino trial. Havent heard his name at all. I know he ran with a guy named Sharkey from Delaware County. He looked like a professional door opener for Merlino in alot of the old news clips.
Nicky Scarfo Junior scared of Joey Merlino? Scared of his cult of personality, maybe.
Nicky would stamp on that midget if he didn't have a crew of loyal guys watching his back every waking moment.
Nicky never had that kind of pull with people.
That's the name of the game. There's strength in numbers. Carlo Gambino wasn't an imposing figure either. And I'm obviously not comparing Joey to Carlo because Merlino couldn't scrape a pimple off Gambino's ass. I'm just trying to make the point that all gangs, Italian or otherwise, bully people in numbers more often than they do one-on-one.
Long time viewer, first time poster. Based on what has come to light recently I would say this Accardo guy is not active. I know he wasn't made before the 2001 indictment and was clearly a Merlino "guy". He even lived on Merlino's block on Hartranft Street. That makes me think he is strictly a a Merlino loyalist and thus why we didn't hear about him in the Ligambi indictment even though he was at least 6 year out of the can. Most of the Merlino guys seem to be laying low, all things considered, and waiting for either Joey to get off supervision, or some other leadership development we aren't privy to. That being said he could have been made upon being released from jail in 2005... TJ is right the regarding him being a driver/bodyguard and sometime enforcer for merlino back in the 90s. Maybe he was the Ray Wagner of the 90s? Hah
He's an Internet troll with no life who comes here over and over and over with the sole intent of baiting old adversaries and eventually getting thrown off the site again.
Hey, you just signed up today. Welcome to the board .
PB, you are way out of line.
He has a 1 after the name Cefalu, indicating his position as boss.
It could be the real Cefalu. People like you running off legitimate wiseguys is why made guys dont post here anymore!
Sorry I'm not to techy to figure out how to post the picture of the chart on here
Just a heads up, don't click on the chart itself for any reason, its got a virus attached to it according to my antivirus software.
NNY78, there should be no virus attached to that chart. That's the chart I made this summer and posted here on the forum. I don't know why your anti-virus is showing that there is a virus on the file. I created the file myself, and uploaded it to my own personal server when I posted it here in the summer. I uploaded it to the Philly family wiki on that Mafia Wiki website a few weeks ago.
Someone on the next page asked how accurate the chart is. I wasn't sure how to add multiple quotes into my reply. My answer is this - I can't represent the chart to be fully 100% accurate. I created the chart using all of the research I've done on the Philly family, and based it off of the last chart that was made in 2010/2011. Some of it, like the Narducci faction, is speculation from some of the people I've talked to from Philly; I originally never had Phil or any of that crew on the chart. The hierarchy came from one of Scott Burnstein's Mafia Insider reports. It took me quite some time to put together and create the chart and I am pretty proud of it, but nobody who makes these charts can ever claim that they are 100% accurate. A little bit of speculation always factors into it.
Merlinos opens saturday night in Boca, Im sure joey will be fired up for the opening before he has to head down south and report
I'm sure the socialites up in Palm Beach will be waiting with bated breath .
What a bunch of hypocrites. I bet he has hillybilly sheriffs deputies that are secretly his fan boys after having had to do their Homework and read a book or two that mentions the myths that make the man....
Actually, despite a lot of people/law enforcement saying Joseph Stanfa was not made, it later came out that he actually was made by his father via his father. See this link and look towards the bottom regarding the son being "paymaster".
Long time viewer, first time poster. Based on what has come to light recently I would say this Accardo guy is not active. I know he wasn't made before the 2001 indictment and was clearly a Merlino "guy". He even lived on Merlino's block on Hartranft Street. That makes me think he is strictly a a Merlino loyalist and thus why we didn't hear about him in the Ligambi indictment even though he was at least 6 year out of the can. Most of the Merlino guys seem to be laying low, all things considered, and waiting for either Joey to get off supervision, or some other leadership development we aren't privy to. That being said he could have been made upon being released from jail in 2005... TJ is right the regarding him being a driver/bodyguard and sometime enforcer for merlino back in the 90s. Maybe he was the Ray Wagner of the 90s? Hah
Anthony Accardo used to hang with Anthony Borgesi a lot in the mid 2000's. I know that was a while ago. I cant speak about recently. Unlike Anthony Borgesi who was always a gentleman. Accardo was not.
He is probably released to a halfway house. He was due out in May so it makes sense he would be released there 6 months before he completes his sentence.
Long time viewer, first time poster. Based on what has come to light recently I would say this Accardo guy is not active. I know he wasn't made before the 2001 indictment and was clearly a Merlino "guy". He even lived on Merlino's block on Hartranft Street. That makes me think he is strictly a a Merlino loyalist and thus why we didn't hear about him in the Ligambi indictment even though he was at least 6 year out of the can. Most of the Merlino guys seem to be laying low, all things considered, and waiting for either Joey to get off supervision, or some other leadership development we aren't privy to. That being said he could have been made upon being released from jail in 2005... TJ is right the regarding him being a driver/bodyguard and sometime enforcer for merlino back in the 90s. Maybe he was the Ray Wagner of the 90s? Hah
Anthony Accardo used to hang with Anthony Borgesi a lot in the mid 2000's. I know that was a while ago. I cant speak about recently. Unlike Anthony Borgesi who was always a gentleman. Accardo was not.
I seen Accardo with Anthony Borgesi and the rest of his crew on Passyunk at a street festival not long ago so perhaps he is still involved.
Long time viewer, first time poster. Based on what has come to light recently I would say this Accardo guy is not active. I know he wasn't made before the 2001 indictment and was clearly a Merlino "guy". He even lived on Merlino's block on Hartranft Street. That makes me think he is strictly a a Merlino loyalist and thus why we didn't hear about him in the Ligambi indictment even though he was at least 6 year out of the can. Most of the Merlino guys seem to be laying low, all things considered, and waiting for either Joey to get off supervision, or some other leadership development we aren't privy to. That being said he could have been made upon being released from jail in 2005... TJ is right the regarding him being a driver/bodyguard and sometime enforcer for merlino back in the 90s. Maybe he was the Ray Wagner of the 90s? Hah
Anthony Accardo used to hang with Anthony Borgesi a lot in the mid 2000's. I know that was a while ago. I cant speak about recently. Unlike Anthony Borgesi who was always a gentleman. Accardo was not.
I seen Accardo with Anthony Borgesi and the rest of his crew on Passyunk at a street festival not long ago so perhaps he is still involved.
Good info. I haven't seen Anthony Borgesi for many years. Anthony Borgesi is great guy to hang out with. He treats everybody with respect.
think they can let you go to a halfway house up to a year early plus his age. but phillys a young family, so the only dinosaurs they have are scoops and uncle joe who are only early 70tys and now change. copared to new englang you don't get made till your 60+. read his wifes dead and his son is active so he can jump right in if he wants. read he brought tommy del into the family he told scarfo if I could id grab him and jump out the window to kill us. aarp mob
Probably a very strong possibility PB... we can't even say for sure what most of the Scarfo guys are up to who were mid to late 20s. Thinks it's safe to say Chick is just gonna get his kick and enjoy is remaining years on the outside...
Probably a very strong possibility PB... we can't even say for sure what most of the Scarfo guys are up to who were mid to late 20s. Thinks it's safe to say Chick is just gonna get his kick and enjoy is remaining years on the outside...
I would hope so. That family has been through a lot. I mean, you play you pay. I always say it here. But he's an old man now and he stood up and did his time. I hope he has enough dough stashed away so he can live out whatever years he has left in peace.
I read Bernstein's stuff, which is now free. Since we know the hoopla around Borgesi being boss was a sham, what's everyone think about Bernstein claiming tensions between the current admin and Borgesi especially around Johnny Chang and the Delco rackets, which Borgesi feels belong to him. I think there could be some truth around it, but I have no basis to it except for what's in the Bernstein article. Thoughts?
Long time viewer, first time poster. Based on what has come to light recently I would say this Accardo guy is not active. I know he wasn't made before the 2001 indictment and was clearly a Merlino "guy". He even lived on Merlino's block on Hartranft Street. That makes me think he is strictly a a Merlino loyalist and thus why we didn't hear about him in the Ligambi indictment even though he was at least 6 year out of the can. Most of the Merlino guys seem to be laying low, all things considered, and waiting for either Joey to get off supervision, or some other leadership development we aren't privy to. That being said he could have been made upon being released from jail in 2005... TJ is right the regarding him being a driver/bodyguard and sometime enforcer for merlino back in the 90s. Maybe he was the Ray Wagner of the 90s? Hah
Anthony Accardo used to hang with Anthony Borgesi a lot in the mid 2000's. I know that was a while ago. I cant speak about recently. Unlike Anthony Borgesi who was always a gentleman. Accardo was not.
Hot head ANthony Borgesi was always a gentleman? Are you kidding me?
Next you're gonna say Georgie Boy is handsome and doesn't look mildly retarded.
He was an iron worker by trade and was brought up LCN under the barracuda (Sindone). Somewhere it states he was interrogated at gunpoint by Phil Testa and Nicky Scarfo about his role (none zero) in the Bruno murder. To be a fly on the wall during that.
And the comment from him about hugging Tommy Del and jumping through a skyscraper window to their death is fucking classic tough guy.
He was an iron worker by trade and was brought up LCN under the barracuda (Sindone). Somewhere it states he was interrogated at gunpoint by Phil Testa and Nicky Scarfo about his role (none zero) in the Bruno murder. To be a fly on the wall during that.
And the comment from him about hugging Tommy Del and jumping through a skyscraper window to their death is fucking classic tough guy.
Testa and Scarfo have to be some of the most voilent hands on bosses of all time, gangsters to the fucking core.
The same thing happened to Daniel Leo so I don't think it's sickness. Apparently some inmates qualify to be released into a halfway house to serve out the remainder of their sentence.
The same thing happened to Daniel Leo so I don't think it's sickness. Apparently some inmates qualify to be released into a halfway house to serve out the remainder of their sentence.
I don't know anything about Chang (or much about Philly for that matter). But Danny didn't have any violence attached to his initial conviction, and pleaded out quickly when he got hit with the RICO when he was still at Coleman. He was a model prisoner and on fairly "good" terms with the "parole" board. Not that it means anything in relation to Chang. I'm just throwing it out there.
And just for the record, I used quotations with "parole" board because parole doesn't technically exist in the Federal System anymore. But you get my meaning.
I was the one that asked about the accuracy of the chart. The Borgesi's spots and Narducci and his crew is where I have a couple of questions. the first being how Georgie got bumped so far down, the second is that is Anthony really made? and third is in regards to the entire Narducci crew. I thought there was question to whether or not The Narducci's were still active and when I read thru the list I noticed how many Scarfo guys are in his crew.....that seems like a dangerous move to me seeing how big of a disconnect the Merlino and Scarfo guys have. but I guess Ligambi is technically both and can probably help mediate any disputes. and thanks for the link, accurate or not its appreciated.
Hey Sal, yes I noticed it was you, I just wasn't sure how to add multiple quotes into my response. I will attempt to answer what I can.
Regarding George Borgesi, he's bumped down to soldier because he's only been out of prison for less than a year and he has to serve 18 months of supervised release (similar to Merlino) and can't associate with convicted felons or known mobsters until July/August 2015. Whether Georgie remains as the official consigliere, I can't answer that. It has been widely speculated that Ligambi is now the consigliere, but he may only be filling the spot for now on an "acting" basis.
Like I said, I'm not 100% on the whole Narducci faction. Originally, I did not believe that he was still involved. However, several that I have talked to from Philly said that they are involved and that Phil was running a crew that included the leftover remnants of the former Scarfo organization. As little as a few years ago, Philly PD caught Frank Narducci on surveillance at the Christmas party with several of the other high ranking guys in 2010, a few months before Ligambi was indicted and arrested in May 2011. I think Phil Narducci was on supervised release at the time (or still in prison).
I see your point about thinking it's dangerous to have those guys together. Phil Narducci is definitely well respected and a powerful guy in his own sense. Does he have a large enough of a following/faction (including associates) to make a powerplay against Joey/Mazzone/Chang? I couldn't see it. Those guys went to war to take over the family, and 90% of the guys in the family now are Joey's guys and fiercely loyal to him.
Thanks for your nice words about the chart, I appreciate it. And two other points for other posters who asked: Joseph Stanfa (John's son) is only included as an inactive/shelved guy. His dad did have him inducted into the family in the early 90's before he was arrested. He is no longer involved with the family. I did not know that Joseph Ciancaglini Sr. was released from prison yesterday, I will update that on the chart ASAP. I was under the impression (and so is the federal BOP's website) that he was imprisoned until May 2015. Thanks for the update!
I was the one that asked about the accuracy of the chart. The Borgesi's spots and Narducci and his crew is where I have a couple of questions. the first being how Georgie got bumped so far down, the second is that is Anthony really made? and third is in regards to the entire Narducci crew. I thought there was question to whether or not The Narducci's were still active and when I read thru the list I noticed how many Scarfo guys are in his crew.....that seems like a dangerous move to me seeing how big of a disconnect the Merlino and Scarfo guys have. but I guess Ligambi is technically both and can probably help mediate any disputes. and thanks for the link, accurate or not its appreciated.
Hey Sal, yes I noticed it was you, I just wasn't sure how to add multiple quotes into my response. I will attempt to answer what I can.
Regarding George Borgesi, he's bumped down to soldier because he's only been out of prison for less than a year and he has to serve 18 months of supervised release (similar to Merlino) and can't associate with convicted felons or known mobsters until July/August 2015. Whether Georgie remains as the official consigliere, I can't answer that. It has been widely speculated that Ligambi is now the consigliere, but he may only be filling the spot for now on an "acting" basis.
Like I said, I'm not 100% on the whole Narducci faction. Originally, I did not believe that he was still involved. However, several that I have talked to from Philly said that they are involved and that Phil was running a crew that included the leftover remnants of the former Scarfo organization. As little as a few years ago, Philly PD caught Frank Narducci on surveillance at the Christmas party with several of the other high ranking guys in 2010, a few months before Ligambi was indicted and arrested in May 2011. I think Phil Narducci was on supervised release at the time (or still in prison).
I see your point about thinking it's dangerous to have those guys together. Phil Narducci is definitely well respected and a powerful guy in his own sense. Does he have a large enough of a following/faction (including associates) to make a powerplay against Joey/Mazzone/Chang? I couldn't see it. Those guys went to war to take over the family, and 90% of the guys in the family now are Joey's guys and fiercely loyal to him.
Thanks for your nice words about the chart, I appreciate it. And two other points for other posters who asked: Joseph Stanfa (John's son) is only included as an inactive/shelved guy. His dad did have him inducted into the family in the early 90's before he was arrested. He is no longer involved with the family. I did not know that Joseph Ciancaglini Sr. was released from prison yesterday, I will update that on the chart ASAP. I was under the impression (and so is the federal BOP's website) that he was imprisoned until May 2015. Thanks for the update!
thank you for answering my questions. appreciate it
thank you for answering my questions. appreciate it
No problem Sal, anytime! And whoever it was above that stated Joseph Ciancaglini Sr. was released from prison, you are correct. He was released into a halfway house, Philadelphia RRM, to complete the last six months of his sentence. I couldn't imagine him being back involved, I firmly believe he want's nothing to do with the life and will retire. He's 80 years old, hopefully he has the brains and the cash like PB said to just walk away.
I don't know anything about Chang (or much about Philly for that matter).
If I had a nickle for every time you said that...
Well, I don't. But this way people know that I'm just speculating. As opposed to when I post about places like the Bronx and Harlem, where I only post what I honestly believe to be true .
Phil Narducci was writing letters to Andrew Micali during the whole Borgata gambling ring deal (so was Joey Merlino incidentally). The same gambling ring that both his nephews were convicted for taking part in (Baldino brothers). I think smart money is on Phil Narducci being involved. Guy was born and raised into the life I just can't see him all of a sudden coming out after everything he did and getting a job on the register down at the South Philly Pathmark. That's just my opinion though. I really can't speak to the rest of those guys but I do know Joey Pungitore owns a lot of real estate around South philly and incidentally a lot of it is jointly owned with a Scarfo bookmaker named Salvatore Puleio. So read into that any way you want, but the connection is there.
Regarding Chickie Chang and who he sided with. I did hear that he was advising the Merlino guys from Prison and Stanfa even was quoted as acknowledging that Chang Sr. was backing/advising Merlino and crew from jail. However, I have also read the opposite. Natalie's testimony indicated that Michael was "at odds with his brother Joey and his father" as you can read in this article. I tend to believe that he sided with Michael, but if anyone knows for sure then I'd be interested in hearing.
Scott Burnstein has a good article about Philly 92-99 that covers the main parts of the war. He says that Chickie (sr) supported Mikey Chang and the rubout of Joey Chang (jr).
Scott Burnstein has a good article about Philly 92-99 that covers the main parts of the war. He says that Chickie (sr) supported Mikey Chang and the rubout of Joey Chang (jr).
"Word was quickly filtering out to the street and directly to Stanfa personally that both former Scarfo lieutenants Chuckie Merlino and Chickie Ciangalini and Chin Gigante of the Genovese family were backing the Young Turks power play."
It surprises me that Gigante would side with Merlino and not Stanfa.
First of all, I wouldn't put any stock in that report. But IF it's true, I could believe it. Gigante had a thing about the guys from the other side. Actually, that's been the Westside's position for some time now.
It works for them. And I'm certainly not looking to get into a pissing contest here. My grandparents were Italian immigrants and I'm very close to the culture. And some of the other families (namely the Gambinos) seem to be rebuilding through the Sicilians. But homegrown wiseguys are suiting the Genovese family just fine.
After all, even in a day and age where the mob isn't what it used to be, they're still the most influential crime family in this country.
PB - what do you mean about "guys from the other side"? Respectively, not sure what that means and just curious? Assume you don't mean Italy since that wouldn't make sense in this particular case.
PB - what do you mean about "guys from the other side"? Respectively, not sure what that means and just curious? Assume you don't mean Italy since that wouldn't make sense in this particular case.
That's exactly what I mean. The Genovese Family is not big on making Sicilian born members. Stanfa was born in Sicily. I mean, sure, there are a few. But nothing like the Gambinos or the Bonannos. But like I also said, I don't put too much stock in the story to begin with.
The Chin's panel (Manna) wanted Gotti gone. Gotti installed Stanfa. The Chin is gonna support the opposite. Stanfa was a Gambino puppet.
Genovese has zero choice but to support the opposite.
Originally Posted By: pizzaboy
Originally Posted By: Moe_Tilden
It surprises me that Gigante would side with Merlino and not Stanfa.
First of all, I wouldn't put any stock in that report. But IF it's true, I could believe it. Gigante had a thing about the guys from the other side. Actually, that's been the Westside's position for some time now.
It works for them. And I'm certainly not looking to get into a pissing contest here. My grandparents were Italian immigrants and I'm very close to the culture. And some of the other families (namely the Gambinos) seem to be rebuilding through the Sicilians. But homegrown wiseguys are suiting the Genovese family just fine.
After all, even in a day and age where the mob isn't what it used to be, they're still the most influential crime family in this country.
The Chin's panel (Manna) wanted Gotti gone. Gotti installed Stanfa. The Chin is gonna support the opposite. Stanfa was a Gambino puppet.
Genovese has zero choice but to support the opposite.
Of course. There was a lot of bad blood there at the time. But it would have fit well into their thinking anyway. Because like I said, the Genovese family (post Vito Genovese) doesn't favor Sicilian born members. And Gigante in particular was partial to American born Italians.
And like I also said, sure, there are some Sicilian born members, but they're few and far between. I don't even have to go into specifics. All you have to do is look at the membership charts for the past forty or so years.
And today? If anyone thinks that guys like QD, or Barney, or Ernie, or any of the other heavies in that family, would have anything to do with Joey Merlino and his love of the media, then there's a bridge I want to sell you. Because they hated Gotti for his love of the camera as much as for popping Big Paul .
Absolutely. I should have said, in this particular case, hatred of Gotti and his nonsense probably factored more in to it than whether or not stanfa was a sigi.
What's curious is that, if these were "men of honor" they would have not allowed Stanfa to become boss because of his "role" in the Bruno murder. But Along that thinking, Gotti would be done too. At least Manna tried to kill Gotti.
Bottom line, in looking at the arc of Joey Merlino and his ascension to the throne, it's highly dysfunctional, to say the least. Some may argue that it's a complete farce. It's fucking nonsense to be exact. There is zero argument that he woulda disappeared in NYC for his antics.
PB, I know that you always preface "I know little about Philly" but, in Merlinos case, you really don't need to know about who's who back there. You have been around guys your whole life, who handle themselves a certain way. If you woulda seen Philly in the 90s, especially after the stanfa war, it was definitely not hidden, secret, big rackets, etc. It was pure gang intimidation, right out in the open. Anyone who went to the bars/clubs had it thrown in their face
Originally Posted By: pizzaboy
Originally Posted By: NickyWhip
The Chin's panel (Manna) wanted Gotti gone. Gotti installed Stanfa. The Chin is gonna support the opposite. Stanfa was a Gambino puppet.
Genovese has zero choice but to support the opposite.
Of course. There was a lot of bad blood there at the time. But it would have fit well into their thinking anyway. Because like I said, the Genovese family (post Vito Genovese) doesn't favor Sicilian born members. And Gigante in particular was partial to American born Italians.
And like I also said, sure, there are some Sicilian born members, but they're few and far between. I don't even have to go into specifics. All you have to do is look at the membership charts for the past forty or so years.
And today? If anyone thinks that guys like QD, or Barney, or Ernie, or any of the other heavies in that family, would have anything to do with Joey Merlino and his love of the media, then there's a bridge I want to sell you. Because they hated Gotti for his love of the camera as much as for popping Big Paul .
I couldn't tell you. But Licata is fairly common, especially among Sicilians in America.
Whenever a surname is spelled and pronounced exactly the same way as a town or province in Italy, it becomes a little more common over here. Especially when it's a coastal town with a major seaport (like Licata).
Don't get me wrong, it's not like Smith or Jones. But it's a lot more common that Lipshitz .
You know how years and years ago when guys used to say "I'm gonna lick you" when they were about to whoop some ass?
I bet Licata said stuff like "I'm gonna Lic you real good" and "I'm gonna Lic you six ways from Sunday" and "I'm gonna give you the Lickin' of a life time" and "I'm gonna skin Licat" when he was about to beat up an unruly debtor.
You know how years and years ago when guys used to say "I'm gonna lick you" when they were about to whoop some ass?
I bet Licata said stuff like "I'm gonna Lic you real good" and "I'm gonna Lic you six ways from Sunday" and "I'm gonna give you the Lickin' of a life time" and "I'm gonna skin Licat" when he was about to beat up an unruly debtor.
My Daddy can lick your Daddy. Oh, wait. That's the gay Mafia. Don Elton John came up with the slogan.
@K1NG6: I was looking at the recent chart that you made and noticed that you switched Joey Punge and Phil Narducci. Do you have some new information on that, which made you switch the two out? I also noticed the * and was wondering why Phil Narducci would be operating autonomously and not working with the other guys? Is it because you think he can't work with Joe Punge b/c he killed his father Chickie or something else going on here? Also, does anyone know about what happened between Johnny Chang and Phil Narducci and why they dont get along at all (something happened when he was in jail involving the Baldino nephews). I heard that his nephew ended up getting into a big fist fight with Phil in some S. Philly gym. Guess between those two things I'd venture to say that the Baldino nephews are not with their uncle and if they are still in fact active, which I would assume they are, then they're with Johnny Chang or one of his guys?
@K1NG6: I was looking at the recent chart that you made and noticed that you switched Joey Punge and Phil Narducci. Do you have some new information on that, which made you switch the two out? I also noticed the * and was wondering why Phil Narducci would be operating autonomously and not working with the other guys? Is it because you think he can't work with Joe Punge b/c he killed his father Chickie or something else going on here? Also, does anyone know about what happened between Johnny Chang and Phil Narducci and why they dont get along at all (something happened when he was in jail involving the Baldino nephews). I heard that his nephew ended up getting into a big fist fight with Phil in some S. Philly gym. Guess between those two things I'd venture to say that the Baldino nephews are not with their uncle and if they are still in fact active, which I would assume they are, then they're with Johnny Chang or one of his guys?
Philly Mob : All that has been flying around Phil is not playing with friends well .This does not surprise me . I have been trying to find out the truth,very hard to ask things like that because that person may get real pissed or never say a word to me again.
I have been hearing the same stuff, and I don't know whats true. But if I had to bet there is going to be some things going on real soon ,or this has already started.
I hope King can clear this up ,could spell trouble that lots have been saying about a split in this family.
PHL -- I erroneously had Phil Narducci listed at the top of that crew as the "de facto" captain and street boss after the report came out from a few different places that Narducci was part of a three-man ruling panel (with Chang and Mazzone) while Merlino went to prison. I was wrong, however; from what I've been told all of the former Scarfo soldiers are with Joey Pung. That information comes from a poster on another board who is extremely reputable when it comes to information on Philly. However, Pung is still not an "official" capo, just the de facto leader of that faction.
Regarding Narducci/Joe Pung: I don't have any inside information. However, this same poster also told me that Phil despises Joey Pung almost as much as he hates Merlino (most likely for being involved in his father's murder). That has also been reported on by Scott Burnstein and several others. As for why Phil wouldn't be "under" anyone, it's simply that he served his long stretch in prison and he felt that he was "entitled" to something when he came home. He doesn't report to anyone, but supposedly kicks up a percentage to Stevie Mazzone, who Phil actually respects. It's been said that Stevie is the only thing bridging the gap (and keeping the peace) between between Merlino's contingent and the former Scarfo soldiers. I've heard that Phil has built a power base since coming home from prison, and has a large following of extremely loyal associates around him. Hence, if the rumors about the three man ruling panel were actually true, why Merlino/Mazzone/Chang would appease Phil to avoid the chance of violence.
I don't know the origins of the Narducci/Johnny Chang beef. Maybe somebody else here who has a lot more knowledge on Philly could give insight into that.
Also, I just want to say that I don't want anyone to take my chart as Philly mob gospel. I can't (and would never) claim it to be 100% accurate -- I base it off of news reports, indictments, and previous charts that were made. When new information comes out from the media or law enforcement (or a reputable poster gives me new info) then I update the chart. As of now, it appears the chart is pretty set for sometime, unless something major happens soon and changes the circumstances.
so if this guy phil is a force some how he has to get the rest of the familys ok to induct them and that's probably hard if merlinos boss which I think even if in name only. or the pungs. merlino could just say no what could they do.
so if this guy phil is a force some how he has to get the rest of the familys ok to induct them and that's probably hard if merlinos boss which I think even if in name only. or the pungs. merlino could just say no what could they do.
Thats the whole thing , who made Skinny and are any of them really made. This is a other big reason the old guard(SCARFO GUYS) don't see most of these guys as anything .Crazy Philly... This is why I say it's going to be very interesting . Philly is not like NY they will kill..
Thats the whole thing , who made Skinny and are any of them really made. This is a other big reason the old guard(SCARFO GUYS) don't see most of these guys as anything
I think the only induction that was really in question was Ralph Natale. Merlino was inducted by John Stanfa (along with Michael Ciancaglini) in 1992, but I can't remember what month. Stanfa hoped that by giving them their buttons and making Joey Chang the underboss that he could keep the Young Turks satisfied. He was also basically using the old saying "keep your friends close, but keep your enemies closer".
Stanfa gets arrested in 1994 and is awaiting trial, there is no leadership atop the family. Ralph Natale is released around the same time, and he gets "made" by Joey. That's where the problem lies, because Merlino was only a soldier himself at that time. Stevie Mazzone and Johnny Chang would go on to be made sometime after while Merlino and Natale held official leadership positions.
But Serp, I can definitely understand why the old guard doesn't respect Merlino (or some of the other younger guys). They all committed murders and earned for the family, and when it was time to go away for long jail sentences they kept quiet and served their time. Now they are back on the streets (and increasing in numbers) and they feel like they should get what's owed to them.
Think gotti put stanfa there as a gift to the cherry hill guys and the Colombo family welcomed natale to a meal in bk. I agree they all like the idea of structure. Makes them look more stable and secure to all the other family's.
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