Philly Trial Starting

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/local/20121014_Organized-crime_trial_set_to_start_this_week.html

been reading bout this for 2 yrs all of sudding theres another guy at the defence table who the hell is gary battaglini. is he there 3rd wedding singer. but thats 7 defendents with 7 laywers probaly more they must have some long ass tables most of the mob cases nowdays is 1 or 2 guys. they just gave that guy fusco 25 yrs for gambling it dont look good people.

Gary B has been in from day 1
http://abclocal.go.com/wpvi/feature?section=news&id=8146790

go figure the trial starts and mob talk is off the air already,this trial is gona be so boring that mob talk wasnt gettting any ratings with GA and stratweiser walking under bridges thinking they had a hit. GA wants to much money cause hes so full of himself and then when there is no bru haha over mob talk he dont want to taint his reputation. He should get a job writing for the globe, gossip columnists!!! He should get on the FBI payroll they like gossip

wait so there are no more mob talks again?

how do oyu know there is no more Mob Talk?

so three guys are in a bar and a friend of mine is down the other end listening and the one says that he heard that fox didnt want to pay GA anymore and Stratweiser cant do it on HIS OWN GA will still have his mob scene on philly,com

1st anonymous juror chosen for Philly mob trial

Read more: http://www.philly.com/philly/wires/ap/ne...l#ixzz29PdT0yVs

one week and one juror. get ready for a long trial

If I were one of Ligmabi's Imprisoned made men I would ask his permission to kick the shit outta Licata for having such a big mouth.

That blows... I like GAs insight into the whole Philly scene... it makes me wonder that if the papers aren't even going to pay reporters to follow mob stories (sometimes they're like on page 10 or a subsection of a newspaper),to sell papers, why are the feds wasting time on low level indictments?

This isn't a low level indictment. The charges may be trumped up, but this indictment is probably going to end with a sitting LCN boss getting a ten year sentence. That's as high level as it gets (even if Philly is a small family).

I agree with both of you,the case is a waste of tax payer money and should not have been a federal case, and yes it is a low level indictment but if convicted will carry anywhere from 5 to 10 year sentences. The question should be wheather we really want the feds doing these kinds of indictments with already depleted funds that this government keeps telling us that they dont have. It is our tax money isnt it?

They need to go after these snakeheads! But they spit venom! and they'll hiss at you!

You gotta let it go, pal. It's never going to be the same. They're never going to let the mob rebuild to where they were when we were growing up. And no, you can't tell them not to prosecute certain people with your tax money .

I like you Old Head. I'm just having some fun .

No worries my friend,i respect everybodies opinion. None of it is gona change my life anyway.

^^^^ Stay Positive OldHead that last comment made me sad

Don't cry for me I'm already dead - Barney Gumble

LOL

Shouldnt this just be a state case because it took place in PA or is it a federal case because it took place across state lines?

this is the only mob trial going on and george has wrote shit, howie carr will tweet at pic of whitey bulger the day his trial starts. so monday morning was opening agurments wat the hell write something.

Opening arguments are scheduled Thursday in the racketeering trial of reputed mob boss Joseph "Uncle Joe" Ligambi and six codefendants.

A final group of alternate jurors were selected Wednesday to hear testimony in the case, which is expected to last from eight to 12 weeks.

Twelve jurors and six alternates were selected in a process that began last week. For security reasons, jurors were selected anonymously, a safeguard often used in high profile criminal cases involving alleged underworld figures.

The racketeering conspiracy case includes charges of gambling, loan-sharking and extortion. In addition, Ligambi is accused of defrauding a Teamsters Union health fund of more than $200,000 in medical and dental expenses for himself and his family.

The charges stem from what prosecutors allege was Ligambi's no-show job at a South Philadelphia trash hauling company.

Ligambi, 73, is being tried along with reputed mob members Joseph "Scoops" Licata, 71, Joseph "Mousie" Massimino, 62, Anthony Staino, 54, George Borgesi, 49, and Damion Canalichio, 42, and mob associate Gary Battaglini, 51.

The prosecution is expected to call several former mob members and associates who are now cooperating witnesses. Other testimony will come from FBI agents, undercover operatives and victims of alleged mob extortions and shakedowns.

The jury will also hear dozens of secretly recorded conversation made during an FBI investigation that began in 1999 and ended with the unsealing of the indictment against Ligambi and the others in May 2011.

As it has done in pretrial motions, the defense is expected to argue in its opening statements to the jury that the government's case is built around less than credible witnesses and is a cobbled-together string of unrelated alleged crimes that do not justify a racketeering charge.

The defense has also pointed out that the case does not include any allegations of murder, attempted murder or assault, charges that have been highlighted in several earlier mob trials.

In fact, the case has been dubbed "racketeering lite," by veteran criminal lawyer Edwin Jacobs Jr. who is representing Ligambi.

Prosecutors, however, have charged that the Ligambi organization used its reputation for violence, built over years to instill fear and to intimidate those targeted for extortions and shakedowns.

Four defendants in the case pleaded guilty prior to the start of the trial. Three others are to be tried at a later date.

thanks Old Head

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/breaking/20121018_Openings_today_in_Ligambi_mob_trial.html

how long will Joseph "Scoops" Licata, Joseph "Mousie" Massimino, Anthony Staino, and George Borgesi get?

Depends I think. Mousie and borgesi will probably get significant time. Licata and Staino probably around 5-6 years

Some of the comments in the philly paper are right on along with the comments of the lawyers....Philly/camden area will probably have 20-30 murders take place during this trial and the government even contends there is no violence here just old threats

But it's the Mafia that makes the headlines. You can argue we are to blame for taking such an interest in the Mafia.

"Make money, dont make headlines" GA on Ligambi

I agree with you but the federal govt might make a few more headlines along with Mayor nutter if they dropped the violent crime rate in philly...oh well...gotta make that $$$

I agree with merlino. Why not fix Camden and Philly than go after a bunch of old Italian men who really aren't doing much at all except illegal gambling and loansharking. They may have threatened people and it's certain they did, but it wasn't like the old days where people were dropping dead. The government is making a bigger deal out of this than it really is

Hey dap you know whats starting to aggitate me is the reporting by GA sounding more and more like a mouthpiece for the feds.... GA writes for the philly inquirer while the philly Daily News has a writer, William Bender that is more realistic and fair to all invovled. Im sure GA is a good man that has a good rep but lately it looks like hes abandoned is fairness for gossip and anything negative against the defendants...

i totally agree with you 123

Thanks southphilly. I don't support the mob or advocate anything they do, but Ligambi wasn't a dangerous psychopath like Scarfo or Stanfa. His activity wasn't large scale like it is in New Jersey or New York. In years past I would've applauded that a mob boss was going to jail, but I think this is soley for the benefit for the government and pisses me off a bit.

Ive couldnt of said it any better, if there were murders,drug dealing and extorting legimate business people then i would say try to bang them with heavy time.

i agree they have way bigger things to worry about. they should focus on other things

How is south Philly these days oldhead? I've never been to that area of Philadelphia. Is it still predominantly Italian?

The Feds don't care about the crime rate in one city, though. That's for the local administration and police to worry about.

It's ironic that despite GA constantly saying that, he's a major player in creating headlines on Ligambi.

South PHilly is great, lots of Italians, and a good irish section down on 2nd street, its gotton a little tighter over the years since a lot of families moved to Washington township but peolple are moving back and there are great resturantes comparable with New York. Lots of luncheanettes, delis, corner grocery stores,and Yuppies are buying up property and living in them so that they dont have to pay enormous rents in center city where they work. South Philly is 10 to 15 minutes away from center city

Let me tell you,you need the national guard and maybe even the seal team to fix Camden.The only person other than the above mentioned to fix Camden would have been Mayor Rizzo.He would have just bulldozed it to the ground and start over.You know a lot of this ''gambling'' money by the old italian men goes fight back out on the street to fund drug deals and whatever.I'm no advocate against this [the mob] by any means but its not just lining your pockets with a little extra cash for Christmas.Now their funding pharmacuitacals and anything else that they can profit from.

Well said..."based on old intimidation" sayd the mob lawyers.. a PA judge just gave one west philly criminal 240 years he is 28, for violent robbery

wats the laywer say when if i remember correct the second shooter i think its wayne grande or one of the young guys who flipped says on the stand yaeh i plead guilty to this frankie flowers murder i was shooting him next to joseph ligambi and thats how he got made and then the crow comes up and says yep. i just thinking that not old intimdation right, and i dont want to here they fliped the case, the feds will get there way. i hope they win or just beat the racketeering conspiracy charge cause that a b.s. unconstitutional law and it enhances alot of time, hay there in a mafia/gang there all convicted cause its all a racket.its weak charge and basicaly unbeatable.

Hey 22 its about time somebody stands up for the gangsters that are just bookmaking and loansharking. YOU ARE WRONG TO THINK THAT THE MONEY THEY MAKE OF THOSE RACKETS BACK UP DRUG DEALS Those who deal drugs are financing their own drug deals and is nothing but profit for them. These wiseguys know that if they get invovled with financing a drug deal that they will get nailed with big time. Lets see the last thing i remember is that the investigation went from 1999 to 2012 and ther are NO DRUGS in this case. Your gona tell me in 13 years not one drug dealer got caught and could rat on a wiseguy and didnt. Know what your talking about before you talk. Im not saying in the past that mob families werent financing drug deals but they did get charged with that crime. NOT IN THIS CASE!! 13 years NOT ONE DRUG CHARGE in this case so get it right

i dont even see whats wrong with bookmaking and loansharking

I don't with bookmaking but i do with loansharking .

whats wrong with it? its just loaning money and its their choice. loaning places have high rates too

Not as high as most loansharks though. I have problems with loansharking because my friends and family have had personal troubles that i'd rather not go into with loansharks. They know that they accepted the loans while knowing the potential consequences which i think shows the problem with them preying on vulnerable people who need the money. These people i'm speaking of deserve the blame also for being so stupid though .

Why do you think it shouldn't be illegal ?

Loaning places you're a gem Nicky

Ya south philly is fine in some parts as well as center city and down 1st st and old city, BUT north philly is a war zone and 3rd and indiana and temple area...someone needs to clean that up...and camden....there is an aquarium

because its the persons choice to get the loan

maybe you people dont know the process.somebody needs money in like a a few days or a week and not 2 or 3 months that a bank has to go through all this paper work. Nicky is right what is so wrong with it if that person is asking for it knowing the terms of it. and we are always talking about Southphilly and not North Philly or camden. The questions ask were about South Philly and not about North Philly or camden which is over the bridge and in another state

[/quote]
whats wrong with it? its just loaning money and its their choice. loaning places have high rates too [/quote]

Not as high as most loansharks though. I have problems with loansharking because my friends and family have had personal troubles that i'd rather not go into with loansharks. They know that they accepted the loans while knowing the potential consequences which i think shows the problem with them preying on vulnerable people who need the money. These people i'm speaking of deserve the blame also for being so stupid though .

Why do you think it shouldn't be illegal ?[/quote]

because its the persons choice to get the loan [/quote]

I get it's the persons fault for taking the loan the reason it should be illegal is because of what the consequences are if you're unable to pay it. I hate to break it to you Nicky but they won't act in the same manner as a bank.

The people who take the loans aren't just people looking for quick loans it's also people who can't get loans from the bank btw i wasn't talking about anywhere in Philly i was talking about where i'm from.

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/new_je...atened_him.html

on the surface it looks bad but the guy got 50 k and had 7-8 years to repay it and nothing happened and this is the govts case....montell williams is a similar loan shark with mony mutual

So what ever happen to this witness that took the stand Friday ? Does he still live in South Phila and what's his deal ?

nobody had to twist his arm to take the loan. he asked for it. So lets see, he robbed the postal service, the lottery.and the mob and nothing happened to him. No he doesnt live in South Philly anymore and yes his second wife found out what the first wife had known that hes just a scumbag. Also Camaral,the banks do way worse than the mob here in philly, they take your house and throw your family in the street and give you bad credit which means you cant do anything

Christ Almighty, just agree to disagree already. Old Head thinks the mob are just a bunch of harmless old guys with cigars who buy drinks down the shore. Not everyone agrees, but that's his prerogative. But at the end of the day they're still all going to jail, no matter how many Internet supporters they may have.

And let's not lose sight of one thing here: If not for a technicality, Ligambi would have died in jail for murder anyway. And murder is not a harmless vice like bookmaking, Old Head. And I don't care what kind of guy Frank D'Alfonso was.

So if Ligambi goes away for bullshit here, well, he got away with one already. It's almost like OJ Simpson getting 20 years for robbing his own stuff. Call it karma if not justice.

I agree
Pizza boy , However I still believe this should be a state case ! Looks like the Feds just want to make headlines ! Also I don't believe the Phila family has money and really think most of the crew is broke !

You have a point about the State. But if the Feds want a case bad enough, they just snatch it. How do you think that makes the Staties feel? That's why they're never on the same page in joint investigations. Too much resentment.

And I don't have a horse in his race. I just try to play the peacemaker in silly arguments. Problem is, then everyone hates me .

Pizza boy, i repect evreryones opinion to speak their own mind. This case hits close to home for me.This is a way of life down here in SP. When someone makes a statement that the money they make off sports bookmaking which you can go through some tough times as a bookie and loansharking which if one person decides he cant pay you it takes alot to make that money up then says if funds drug dealing then that annoys me. that might have been the old days but not now.

SP you are right with the drug angle and with a lil research on 2 prominet drug lords of n philly who recently got life reds and savage, they would have rolled on some ol white Italian if there was any connection to bookmaking and supporting the drug racket...i am sure some wiseguys dabble in it, but that is an automatic death sentence when caught

And it wasn't a "way of life" in the Bronx that I grew up in?

Don't forget the big picture, Old Head: Philly mob = Small family. Barely relevant today.

I'm not a kid or a wannabe, Old Head. I'm a 53 year old Italian American who grew up in the Belmont section of the Bronx when the area was still strong with both wiseguys and Italians in general. And I still live in Throggs Neck today when we're not in Florida. I worked for Teamsters Local 813 for 25 years and I was a business agent for the last 7 of those years. My point is, I've already forgotten more about these guys than most people will ever know. And I'm not bragging because that's hardly something to brag about. I'm just stating a fact.

As far as your opinion, I respect it. And as I posted a few days ago, I like you. But please don't feel the need to tell me about a "way of Life" that I've been around since the day I was born. I find it condescending and so would you.

You know old head I've been on here quite awhile and never had one problem with anybody,I've gone out of my way to be nice and respectful but don't come off like some know it all.Who gives a crap whether anybody ratted or not,you can't tell me these guys don't fund things,like you said they did in the past.Scarfo and his guys with that big P2p bust in the mid-eighties.Do these guys check with you every move they make.joey and his guys involved with that guy from Boston.Borgesi didn't want to go that route because he knew the problems that drug-dealing creates.At one time these guys were kidnapping each others chemists.You think your the only one in the know.I don't appreciate being talked down to.If you don't like my opinion there's a civil way of letting me know.I never once said these guys were crap or jerks,I was simply stating that the Feds spend so much time on them because I feel like its more than just gambling and loan-sharking why they go after them.You can go back to EVERY one of my posts and I never said 1 negative thing about these guys.

Old head I just read Pizza Boy's comment and it sounds like mine,I'm 59 years old and I felt like he did.I think your taking this too personal,these are opinions,some stronger than others,but there is no need to get hostile.I always liked your comments and made a point to ask you questions,that's why I was so surprised about your comment.I'm not the enemy I hope they all get off,I have nothing against them.

Pizza Boy you couldn't be more right about that Frankie Flowers shooting.What are the odds of anybody further yet a mobster getting a murder case overthrown.What gets me when they tried him again it was the exact same witnesses and evidence but supposetley the juries were fed up with guys like Tommy Del and Nicky the Crow making a fortune off testifying for the government.It took all of 1 hr. to find him not guilty.Just because the judge made a small mistake by not saying Gino Milano had flipped and the lead prosecutor calling the mob ''a pack of wolves'' thats the basis for a new trial?He went from Graterford to Margate almost over night.Talk about a break.

Even a broken clock is right twice a day .

But thanks, 22 .

So then you agree with me that its a way of life Pizza boy, and i am older than you which doesnt mean anything other than the fact that ive forgotten more things about wiseguys that most people on these blogs write about but i always respect one opinions

Hey 22, you are a man and ive lived my whole life being respectful of everyones opinion. I am also 100% italian, if i came off too strong and offended you that was not my intention. to me though i thought by mentioning finacing drugs with this money being made of bookmaking and drug dealing that there was no evidence of that. As far as little Nicky and his crew were concerned that was a different story.

by the way Pizza Boy and 22 i am 62 and we sound like 3 good italian guys debating over a beer. PERONI beer of course on draft

Yeah don't worry about its all good,after I say what I say I think nothing of it,we will still share our thoughs,no problem.I know your a good man.

Thank you my friend

So nice seeing good guys getting along.

Now...would there be room for a swedish guy during discussions over a PERONI? Or do I have to bring my blonde, tall, swedish girlfriends with me?

Nah your good but you can bring them along,it never hurts,LOL

LOL

My thoughts exactly!!

I thought you sounded familiar pizza lol, took me awhile...........soliai

now Carmela, theres no need to be jealous of us Italians LOL

I heard George and Dave had a mob talk prepared but because of the content that got back quick like when e.g johnny changes wife didn't show up at the news stand that one day,,, Focusing on a few wiseguys out on the streets

Oldhead what did the buzzards at your corner watering hole say that there not doing it anymore because of George's Self-Inflated Sense of Self-Worth...I guess during the trial attorneys could give the station heat specially with some guys that are so called rising stars within the Philadelphia crime family but don't have a criminal record and know how to stay below the radar.

Pizzaboy almost broke a pixel hes snapping

Yes Dickie, fox didnt want to pay GA for his gossip work, he wanted to much money for his onesided opinions. Now the rumor is he might actually attempt to attack in his writings of course the government witnesses in the case cause people have had enough of his gov mouth piece aticles

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/201210...t__talking.html

yo southphilly oldhead, i like ya alot and i understand what your sayin about 'a way of life' down in SP. The thing is that this is a post about philly so naturally philly guys are gonna be attracted to this post. When an outsider has an opinion about the way things are run in SP it is easy for them to say lock these guys up and throw away the key, but when u know the idividuals involved and there families then its harder to say things like that. I know alot a south philly guys from doin over 3 years up state prison (mikey rinaldi-his co-defendant killed phil testa, richie marra-used to work for chickie narducci, joe rico-chicki chang's bodyguard, etc.) and i moved from kensington to south philly (10th & Morris) and met more guys in the street, im 100% paisano and I love SP. My point is that I respect ya and agree with your outlook on SP and dont worry about these other guys talkin out the side of there neck because if they knew what u or I knew about Joe n them they wouldnt be talkin like that.

FYI: mikey rinaldi, richie marra, and joe rico all have LIFE sentences

Hey Dom Cheech, thank you for your support,i know a man like you knows what they are talking about and when we sound off on these charges as just ordinary, people dont know what we mean. Richie Marra was a good guy growing up and remember the incident clearly like it was yesterday. It was over his girfriend, and im sure he is in chester a state prison right by the Harrahs in chester now renamed Harrahs in Philly

How can you say that mobsters don't finance drug deals? What about Massimino?

http://articles.philly.com/2011-08-15/ne...-federal-prison


And not the first or last time...especially for Massimino

Although I do agree that these are some dumb ass charges to go after especially when there are plenty of other issues in this city.You can gamble anywhere and credit card companies are just as bas as loan sharks.

I understand what your saying with Mousie but he was never charged with it and also Goerge (GOSSIP) Anastia wrote that story.

So it didn't happen?? Come on now? You and I both know Mousie is and was involved with Drugs. Um and Damion Canalichio was also. IM born and bred south philly so don't try and tell me that no Mobsters finance drug deals with there books. You and I both know better. They may not be drug dealers but they will put a guy on and finance him for a quick return. Its not uncommon at all. Whether its part of this case or not. And it was part of the last trial with Merlino.

If im not mistaken Damion was already in Jail serving time for drugs for small time drug dealing which happens to be his second time but none of it was mob related. As far as Mousie is concerned maybe 20 years ago he caught a case but again not mob related. Im not disputing weather they sold drugs at one time for their own benifit or in Mousies case a previous mob but all im arguing is not under Ligambi. You dont investigate Ligambi for 13 years with 15000 tapes and have no mention of drugs in any of them. Believe me spmob im not blowing smoke up peoples ass on this board im talking from fact

Your talking fact? I don't see any proof. Not only do I know some of these people connected with what I speak of, I gave you an article. You have given me nothing but some old heads talking at a bar. What bar by the way? Maybe I have seen you there. Anyway, you sort of proved my point. Dame is a made guy who is in jail for drugs and Mousie is a made guy, involved in this trial, who has always been involved in drugs and is part of this ongoing investigation I am speaking of with RX pills. So what that its not a part of this case. My point is, it does happen and it happens more then you think. Especially associates with sports books, they do other things on the side to make a quick buck whether selling or financiy. It may not be part of this bull shit trial. Cause I do agree that loansharking and gambling are bull shit. But drug dealing mobsters are not a thing of the past.

spmob. exactly what im arguing. Not under Ligambi thats all im saying. And you probbably know what bar im talking about and yes you might have been there,and so far if you look back everthing i have mentioned that i heard or a friend of mine heard coming from that bar has been fact. And as far as that article is you cant believe everything you read especially coming from the FBIs mouth piece GA and then the feds listen to all the wire taps out there after the article comes out to see what people are saying. Also that aticle doesnt mean anything to me. You have your right to believe whatever you want as well as i do.

With all the money that they put out on teh streets they would have to be flat out blind in their hometown of s philly, where they all know one another and if they loaned it out to someone that dealt drugs, they know what is up, and dealing with the bike gangs and loaning out money, etc.

And also Damion catching a drug case in 2006 and sentenced in 2007 was never linked to Ligambi, wouldnt you think a made guy catching a drug rap would have led to the upper hierachy? Well it didnt and then didnt in this case, thats all im saying

Your right on point Merlino, especially knowing in the drug world they breed alot of rats

huge sentences with that real quick...Kaboni Savage and Red Rivera, Id like to know if they had any 2nd hand dealings with anyone connected S Philly because these guys were making millions in North Philly dealing heroin and they got life sentetnces, Heroin isn't leaving N Philly and unfortuanately is a huge cash cow there as the police turn a blind eye to its use

Merlino, believe me when i say this, those cases had a lot of rats in them and if the 2 top men had a chance to rat on the mob for lienance they would have and gotton pretty good deals

If they were gonna rat anyone out they would have informed on their suppliers and other drug traffickers considering the time they were both looking at including the pending death penalty case savage is now looking at as well. I think the only other group savage had to deal with was some black muslims who were extorting him for protection in the prisons for his associates.

Heroin in north philly and camden are normally brought in one fashion or another by the cartels.

And while Ligambi isn't directly involoved in Drugs, one of his top aids was in Massimino so it was done under is nose during his reign. And if you read the whole indictment you will notice that Dame was made around by Joe and then went off to Jail on Drug charges right after that. So he was dealing drugs as a made man under ligambi.

Billy aint gonna rat on Joe and that's why it didn't make this case.

Billy or one of his associates? Do we know which one? I respectfully disagree with the angles you took on those two. Damion has been in and out of drugs his whole life,and quite frankly i dont know him that well but mousie was a very sociable individual and would talk to anybody no matter what. We will see cause Billy had a 12 to 15 deal that he pleade to but now supposedly its off the table

Here is a quote from an article about the nick skins tapes where they talk about some of the guys being made:

"Five others, including codefendant Damion Canalichio, were inducted in an earlier ceremony, Licata says, noting that Canalichio was initiated shortly before he went to prison (the “can”) for a drug conviction."

So Joe made him after he was dealing drugs and knowing that he dealt while Joe was boss, acting or not. Damion always dealt in drugs.

Here is your quote



Damion is involved in booking/loansharking and drugs. So he finances using both. He also finances others. Billy McAndrews and Mousie have always worked together. Billy aint gonna rat out Joe and I doubt Billy told anyone that Mousie was financing his drug operation. So my only point is that there was drug dealing going on (whether outright or financing) while Joe was boss whether it is in this case or not. I know it is not. I read the entire indictment and superseding one. For you to say it was wrong of 22 to think that money they make of those rackets back up drug deals is just wrong. Some don’t some do, it’s the way the life it.

First of all the guys name is Billy Andrews and secondly Joe Ligambi wasnt charged with selling drugs so you cant just assume that he was. And if the feds had proof that he was with Damion they most certainly would have locked him up. You must agree that Damion might have been selling on his own without the endorsement of Mr. Ligambi

also i never said 22 was wrong,all i said is that it wasnt in this case or while Ligambi was boss. Maybe you should read again what i wrote.

Although I haven't seen Henry in about 10 years I grew up with him since we were kids. Typical lowlife, left his wife and 2 kids in the late 90's and started dating the wife of of the Grande brothers locked up (Scarfo crew) I'm not sure if the 2nd wife he speaks of that left him was her or not. He started to get a really big head like he was big time but really was just a low level bookie who gambled more than he took in.

Last I heard of him before this article he was living in Vegas. His testimony sounded very forced and you could tell he really didn't want to be there.

How did I read that wrong? Hes not wrong. Some do that.

Also, Joe endorsed Damion because he made him. He made him right before he got locked up for drugs. He knew he was selling and if you don't believe that you are defnitely naive pal.

And sorry I got Billy's last name wrong. My bad. Is that all you got. Your splitting hairs and have yet to show proof, just that you go to Chollie bears or wherever you old old heads gather and gossip about shit you don't know about. You keep bringing it back to this case. Its not my point. My point is that Joe knows that guys in his organization either sell or finance the selling of drugs. Do you understand now?

Anyway, the indictment as Joe as Acting boss with Joey being the real boss. And Joey dealt directly with Drugs. So dont act like theres some kind of drug ban in the mob. It doesn't happen.

Do you understand english PAL? I know more than you think you know and i personally know Mr Ligambi and i know he is not a drug dealer, was never indicted for drugs and THERE IS NO DRUGS IN THIS CASE!!! THERE IS NO DRUGS IN THIS CASE!!! THERE IS NO DRUGS IN THIS CASE!!! GEEZ I dont personally care what Joey was in dicted for but i do know one thing. JOEY IS NOT IN THIS CASE!! ONE MORE TIME! JOEY IS NOT IN THIS CASE!! GEEZ

And what proof do you have? An aticle by Mr gossip himself metioning Mousie as the backer for Billy Andrews. Did you even know the feds had Billies car wired for 6 months and his phone tapped for 3 months and guess what? NO PROOF THAT MOUSIE WAS INVOLVED, So maybe you can line up your facts

I know one thing I am true to everyone here and some things are the way i feel and i respect anybody that has a different opinion so for now im gona just back up for a few days

Looks like Nicky Skins also got Nicky Mita on tape and Tony Bananas wanted to whack Frank Sinatra

http://www.fivefamiliesnyc.com/2012/10/philly-mobster-wanted-to-kill-frank.html

Think Nicky Mita's gonna get hit when the hammer comes down in New York and Jersey Dap?

I wouldnt be surprised if he does get picked up for something. Since Skins was with the Gambinos, he probably had lots of daily interactions with NJ-based Gambinos.

You only think the Gambino's in Jersey will get picked up or is this headed to New York as well?

Yo Southphilly oldhead, i dont know why ya bother with some of these guys! Marone! Richie marra is at chester so is mikey rinaldi and joe rico. Joe runs the kitchen like its straight outta goodfellas, i got stuck in the kitchen for a month till i got moved to the law library as a clerk, real sweet job...me and joe were on the same block, stand up guy! Mikey runs the activities at the gym, hes really bitter about his case, he got a freakin life sentence for an allegeded murder conspiracy and the guy that did the actual shootin (dom depretoro) rattin him out!!! Richie is a stand up guy, he runs the tech room in the activities dept., he sits in this little room all day with like 3 freakin computers and his eyes are glued to the screen!! All three are at SCI chester next to that dump harrahs...*** So ya know ol' richie huh...his sister is still a looker for her age, lol. A shame how he allegedly caught that case, his 2 co-defendants beat the rap and richie took the pinch...allegedly all over a broad!!Joe, mikey, and richie keep to themselves and rarely talk to anyone but each other and other lifers...i got a pass beacause im 100% sicilian, they would break my balls all day about it..lol! Truley good times my friend. Well paisan, best of luck with ya and your attempts to talk some sense into these medigans!!!

*** removed racist term

So if someone says they're 100% Sicilian, or 100% Italian, that means both they're parents are born in Sicily or Italy?
Here's some food for thought: if you go to Italy, guess what? You're 100% American.
Oh and there are no such words as ditsoon or medigans. But wait, DomCheech you're not trying to use racist remarks or call other posters dog shit are you? Cause that would be a no nicey for you!

LMFAO!!!

The lady is right. Refrain from using any racist terms on these boards. It's against the board rules.

Yo Very Old Head....Get a better pair of glasses. I am not talking about this case and neither were you or 22 originally. You said that these guys don't deal drugs or finance drugs at all. Thats not true. Were not talking about Joe himself ya bum. I am done with you. You brought nothing to the argument but hear say and bullshit.

It never ceases to amaze me how some people think talking like a Sopranos rerun makes them "more" Italian than everyone else. Go to Italy and behave like that and you'll get laughed back to customs .

Thank you Dom Cheech I'm with you 100%

Done

All my grandparents were born in italy, to me they were italians. My mother and father were born here and i consider them to be Italian-American because they grew up in an italian household here in the USA. But as far as i'm concerned me and my siblings are Americans. I've never been to Italy in my life and i could really careless about it though i do have relatives there who come over maybe every 15 or 20 years to visit. You cut out my heart and it will have "Made in America" stamped on it.

Cut it out, you two. Take it off the boards.

Spmob you should refrain from name calling! But I know who the fraud is now! You keep reading newspapers and that's what you bring to the table! Nothing but bs and by the way it's not Chollie bears anymore and hasn't been for a while! I don't go there for my information but that's y I know you don't know what your talking about

Sc thank you I am done with this myself

Hey Gian Carlo, I am also 100% Italian myself and proud of it but let's give Dom Cheech a break cause he's new to this board! When your Sigi they are supposed to be the the toughest amongs Italians and he's proud of it

Your funny very old head or I should say you think your funny. Didn't realize you were born in Italy Mr. 100% Italian. Im Italian american to. I just dont have to say it on every post like you. So keep going around 15th and shunk or Grumpies or wherever you go to have a beer and bullshit like a woman to your buddies about that one time you met Joe Ligambi and pumped his gas for him. Phony! I can go around and tell you who I know or who my cousin is or who I played foot ball with once when I was 11. That's not my style.

And your new to the boards to pal...so dont tell people who to give a break to. I have been around here a while and never had to deal with someone who can't listen to a legitmate argument and just types in Caps and only has to say is that Drugs are not a part of this case. Not my point and you know it! You just had nothing back in return. O and you wish you could clean George A's jock strap you wannabe.

Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah your must be a woman. all you do is wine. Or your some mans boy toy!

OK... second time now. You two guys take this crap off the boards!

Little Joeys father Chucky Merlino died in prison today and i guess that will be Joeys first time back to Philly since his release. He was due to be out 2015 or 2016

were you living in s philly when scarfo was on his rampage?

I've been watching the news since 4 and looked online and seen nothing about this, where did you hear this?

Friends of mine told me around noon but his daughter of course Joeys sister Confirmed it

Yes in the early 80s and tho he was a small man he was a scary guy. He had hollow eyes and a scow and a swagger when he walked up and down passyunk ave when he came into town! I guess we were always reading about him in the newspaper that's y we were intimidated

Old head was Joey close with his old man?

NY guys like John Gambino, Alphonse Trucchio, and Michael Roccaforte were also picked up on wires from Nicky Skins. Trucchio and Roccaforte are already in jail on other charges. Who knows who else has been picked up, it remains to be seen.

Yes he was as close as he could be cause don't forget his father got locked up with scarfo so he's been away since the mid 80s. Then Joey got locked up in 99 so the communication was cut off drastically but back in the 70s and growing up around 9 th and Jackson in south Philly yes they were very close. Joey had the finest of everything He took him everywhere!

They haven't picked up John Gambino yet. He's still free as a bird at the moment

is john related to carlo???

Hey old headhead has anyone mentioned joey getting picked up on the new information that has been leaked out with him associating with some known felons and things?

Theres a lot of talk down here like something is eventually going to happen. At the very least a parole violation and sent back to prison for a few months

ya seems about right if all that has been said is true....and you scooped the inquirer today:

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/breaki...n_in_Texas.html

Thanks for the article Merlino

Joey might come back to Philly for the burial...?

Maybe the FBI can be on detail that day instead of Philly cops since our city is so broke as it is

Back in the day wasn't he one of the Cherry Hill Gambinos they ran Valentino's

Go down passyunk avenue and buy a cheap suit south philly style classy

From what i know his wife Rita is gona cremate him, I talked to a family member and they say he was 90 ponds when he died and that his wife is gona cremate him. He was in Texas when he died and Joey got a chance to visit him on his way to LA that was all over the news from TMZ

You dont know how much Little joey is a legend in this part of town. He can go anywhere and his tab will be picked up from resturantes to funeral parlors so we will see

Sympathy for the Devil..That Tylenol P.M. hss your trippin oldhead a bit confused you think they're going to have a parade for him.

When did you pump ligmabi's gas?

yo southphillyoldhead, I leave the board for a day and check back for your reply and see all these guys takin shots at me! I guess i made some people mad!!! U gotta love it cuz! Its a shame about chuckie, he was so close to comin home. My friend Nick told me about chuckie passin away. Speakin of ol'timers Chickie Chang comes home soon and I hear he's in good health. His grandson Mikey is a disgrace, the kid turned muslim in jail, i seen it with my own eyes on E-Block in graterford, the kid is on drugs. Wanna hear a funny story, my good friend Anthony Gongs (Johhny's half brother) was locked up with Harry the Hunch in Graterford in the early 90's and he told me Harry was so tight with his money that he would use State issued soap instead of buyin good soap from commissary! If ya know anything about State issued soap then ya know its this freakin block of hard green shit, its truely a horrible experience! Anthony would do this impression of Harry, freakin hilarious! harry the hunch a bonafide millionare using state soap!! He said Harry was a good guy. Stories like that you wont find in GA article. If ya got any harmless stories like that I would love to hear them, it brings a smile to my face.

i thought bob barker had the right to own every state soap in american jails. the hard one that makes you skin fall off and ends up in socks and clubbed over peoples skulls . anyways the last big mafia funeral i remember with the 3 tow trucks of flowers hells angels protection was the old guy jerry anguilo the underboss up in boston like 3 yrs ago but it was the same day as ted kennedy so it didnt make to much noise he had his 21 salute and everything. chuckie merlino was made in 1980 and was on the street to 85 im betting he didnt make that much money for a under boss. tommy delgerno said he was a drunk in a couple of books is he still alive, and i wonder if old scarfo and chuckie made peace and if he sends flowers or some shit. chuckie merlino brought uncle joe in.

any word on what has been going on in the current trial?

Suppose to go back tomorrow. Had a 3 day break. They are on break from some court/judge shit.

Lol at Joey being a "legend".

In some people's minds that's all they ever talk about!! Joey this and Joey that! But I don't think some people really meant him! Especially when he was drinking! Lol

Did you ever babysit him since your an "OLDHEAD" like when a war was going on. "Joey I shield you!"

Any of you philly guys ever go to that little dive bar in the Italian Market called "12 steps down". I've been there a couple times over the years and had a good time with a bunch of the locals.

Pretty sure it's owned or was owned by the Renzulli's. I guess i don't have to tell you guys about John Renzulli and his cousin. Big time drug guys back in the day.

Is the bar still open?

That place has changed hands a lot I do think its still open. It's on 9th and Christian under a sporting good store. The last owner that had it was Renzullis friends wife. The .......,, but that changed hands in 2000 and I got a little older and don't go to those places anymore! As far as for you Dickie you've been baiting me all day cause your some Irish guy with mental problems from the northeast that don't have a life and wish they were in South Philly. You probably came down here and got punk smacked a few times cause your a drunk!

That sounds about right. Who would wish they were in South Philly besides an Irish guy with mental problems and no life. I agree completely!

Thanks Old Head. I haven't been there in a few years and was just curious if it was still there.

LOL.

You know I'm just playing. I'm cute like that.

I'm just Gona think that that's your picture and dream! I could never be mean to a female that good looking!

Talk about mental problems oldhead? Don't you have a wife since you have your life so together and only your opinion matters and everyone else is a jerkoff? I'm not a drunk Irishmen from the NE, I get f'd up from time to time. You belittle everyone else's comments yet you say you respect everyone's opinion's.

Your a walking contradiction... My father was born in South Philly and ran a successful business for years in Center City in the mid 80's he decided with 3 children it might be a good time to move to a suburb outside the city. Do you have children or a family? Who are you to say I'm this and that did you remotely turn on my computer or tablet it wouldn't surprise me

So what part of your opinions am i supposed respect? THIS ONE?
Did you ever babysit him since your an "OLDHEAD" like when a war was going on. "Joey I shield you!"? THIS ONE?
When did you pump ligmabi's gas?? THIS ONE?Sympathy for the Devil..That Tylenol P.M. hss your trippin oldhead a bit confused you think they're going to have a parade for him THIS ONE?
Go down passyunk avenue and buy a cheap suit south philly style classy! One joke ok,but consistently saying drunkin stuff? Your father must of known that he had to get you out of south philly with that attitude!!! Now thats a good man!!

yo oldhead, remember the R.C. Variety Store at Hutchinson n Catharine near 9th st! Chickie used to run that joint, my uncle used to hang there. I was too young to really remember that place vividly but i remember bits and pieces. I heard from one of my friends that Joe aint takin a deal unless its 60 months or under. People forget that Joe fought a body and lost and got a wheel only to give the time back on appeal..so he aint no spring chicken, he knows what he's doing with this case. Whats your take on it?

Nobody forgot that Joe is playing with house money. But others think that he's dumb as shit for getting back in the life after beating the flowers murder on appeal. He was lucky as shit! He did time, why go back? He beat the system once, he may not be so lucky the next time. But then again, maybe he realized that he should be in jail anyway and just made money for his family while he has the time so that they can be set when he goes back in since that is what he knows how to do best.But if I were his kids/wife, I'd rather have him. Like you said, he is no spring chicken. This could effectively be a life sentence for him if convicted. And most likely there will be a conviction.

I am more surprised that Staino didn't take a plea with this being his first potential bid. But they have him on most of the tapes so thats why he and Joe didn't take the deals they were probably offered cause they were tough sentences for effectively a gambling case minus the No show job and benefit insurance fraud from the trash company for Joe. I dont know what they were all offered so I can't form a real opinion. Just really thought Staino was gonna take a deal.

It's to late now Dom Cheech for Joe to take that offer cause once the trial starts the offers are off the table! But IMO with the time Joe has already in like 17 months that joe can't get back! Joe and Staino should have cut their losses! I did hear that they used to run ziganette games around there! I'm from 10th and bigler we hung In a variety store on Hutchinson and shunk.

We dont even know if Liagmbi was offered a plea deal, IMO he probably wasnt. They are planning to hit him for all they can especially after investigating him for over a decade. Would be dumb to cut their losses and offer a plea.

Posted: Thu, Oct. 25, 2012, 9:43 PM


Informant testifies at Ligambi trial

By John P. Martin

INQUIRER STAFF WRITER





Growing up in South Philadelphia, Michael Francis Orlando Jr. dreamed of following in his father's footsteps.

He wanted to join the mob.

Orlando's dad was a bookmaker and loan shark. But the son set his sights higher. He sold pot and cocaine, robbed a drug dealer, staged fake accidents, and ran a credit-card fraud scheme.

Orlando hoped to impress the local mob leaders, but instead ended up in their debt, unable to make his $150 weekly interest payment.

One day he woke to find his car windshield smashed. On another, an enforcer paid his 85-year-old grandmother a friendly visit that Orlando interpreted as a threat. If he didn't pay, Orlando knew, he would get beaten - or worse.

"That's how things get done, through violence and intimidation," he told a federal court jury Thursday.

Orlando, 45, was the second in a string of FBI informants and insiders expected to testify at the racketeering trial of reputed Philadelphia mob boss Joseph Ligambi and six codefendants.

Armed with more than 15,000 recordings and 9,000 surveillance reports gathered over a decade, prosecutors are trying to persuade jurors that the men ran extensive gambling, extortion, and loan-sharking operations across the city and beyond.

Defense lawyers have portrayed the accusations as overblown fabrications, built on the word of untrustworthy turncoats trying to cut deals to save themselves. Orlando can expect such treatment when he faces cross-examination as soon as Friday.

Under questioning from Assistant U.S. Attorney John S. Han, he admitted his cooperation helped win him leniency in a 2003 federal fraud prosecution. That crime carried a maximum prison term of 15 years, Orlando said.

Instead, he got probation. (The sentencing order is sealed from the public.)

That fraud was one of his better "scores," Orlando testified, one that got him notice within the mob.

He had co-opted a source within TransUnion, the credit reporting agency. For a fee, Orlando would arrange for her to rewrite scores, making poor credit risks or people with a history of unpaid debts look like a safe bet.

"Did people approach you in South Philadelphia to get their credit fixed?" Han asked.

"Yeah," Orlando said, a wide smile crossing his face. "Just about everybody."

One, Albert Lancelotti, asked Orlando to fix the credit score for his uncle Michael, Orlando said. Michael Lancelotti was prominent, a "made man" within the Mafia, according to the witness.

"I said, 'Absolutely, no problem. Of course I'll take care of him,' " Orlando recalled. He didn't charge Lancelotti, and got a gracious thank-you note in return, he said.

His debts, however, eventually caught up with him.

Orlando said he owed $5,000 to Damion Canalichio, one of the defendants Orlando said he knew well.

(He said the same about another defendant, Gary Battaglini, but then twice picked the wrong man when he was asked to identify Battaglini in the courtroom.)

A decade or so ago he and Canalichio were friends, Orlando said. When Canalichio got out of prison, Orlando arranged to get him a black Cadillac, so Canalichio could be seen driving a nice car.

He also knew Canalichio wasn't shy when it came to collecting debts, and said he had heard the man talk often about giving debtors a beating.

When Orlando began falling behind in his payments, he said, he began to hear warnings from others at a deli that Battaglini ran at 19th Street and Snyder Avenue.

Orlando said he fled to New York City, where he was in hiding for about a month. One day, Orlando's brother called and told him not to worry, that he had been paying down the debts.

Soon after, Orlando returned to the area. Then his brother asked him to come to his Delaware County apartment.

There, Orlando said, his brother confessed that he had been working as an FBI informant and gathering evidence against the loan sharks. His apartment was wired, he said, and he recorded conversations and payoffs.

Orlando said the news made him so sick he vomited on the way home. In his mind, a mob turncoat or informant was "lower than a pedophile," he testified.

Then he realized he had no option but to become one.

Not long after that, Orlando walked into Battaglini's deli to make his weekly interest payment - and a recording for the FBI. Jurors are expected to hear those tapes when trial resumes Friday

Sorry for the way i posted that i couldnt get it to take up less space!!

$5,000 is their case?

Yea I heard about this yesterday. Michael Orlanda, A KNOWN DRUG DEALER, testified yesterday.

Im sure they have way more than this scum,but these are mostly the type of people they are gona put up o the stand! People ratting out the mob because thry get caught stealing,scamming and drug dealing! I guess when the agents get up there it will get more real!

You are right the 2 FBI agents that got in there will be the nail in the coffin...I am guessing that these 2 FBI guys will then get the philly OC scene to the big screen then after they write their books

I guess you guys missed court on Thursday of last week? One FBI agent was on the stand an Ed Jacobs DESTROYED him!!! I guess GA didn't report that!! Y dont you guys come to court n listen to what's going on instead of just speculating?

LOL. We work! Only hanger ons and wannabes go to court. Just kidding... Keep us updated when he is about to destroy him again. Maybe the guys like Old head can stop by. And actually its not just GA reporting on it. And they do report on both sides if you can read. I can't believe I have to play the devils advocate on this site. I am from south philly and think these charges are bullshit. But you people who Only know South philly and nothing else think that theres some kind of agenda against these guys. Jacobs can destroy him all he wants but if you think these guys don't get convicted of something, you are as naive.

Since no report has come out about today's court, Why don't you tell us what happened? Get your side in. Explain it to us. Most on here want to hear both sides. Its a forum. Everything is up for discussion. Not everyone can go to court or would want to. So tell us what they don't report instead of coming on here trying to be funny.

I gotta pay the bills, cant make it on the streets hustling for nickles, I gotta work for my dimes...obama didnt take care of me

Open and shut case via the RICO charges.....just on that dead guys wiretap

Southphilly13, how do the guys that are locked up look? I heard they are bored to death in FDC?

You ever walk by there and hear those guys screaming in there and playing bball and handball or raquetball...

He isn't being funny his brother is on trial! And you would think that if you have time to be on here everyday talking then your obviously concerned cause I gotta work and I have a life. And yes you are on here a lot but when you are called on it you gotta work, whatever.and yes there is an agenda. Jacobs said hiself," guilty of being Italian"

I got a passion for the Eagles too but I dont go to their practice either

INQUIRER STAFF WRITER









By John P. Martin

Deep in debt and unable to pay, Michael F. Orlando Jr. had a proposal. He asked his South Philadelphia loan shark if he might earn credit - and good will - by working as a street collector.

But the alleged shark, Damion Canalichio, nixed the idea. Orlando's loan wasn't his to forgive, Canalichio said. It belonged to "Stevie and Joey," shorthand that Orlando took to mean reputed mob boss Joseph Ligambi and a lieutenant, Steve Mazzone.

"It's Uncle Joe's money?" Orlando asked in the 2002 conversation, recorded by the FBI.

"Yeah," Canalichio said.

Federal prosecutors on Friday played that tape - and a handful of others - in a bid to persuade jurors that even the smaller loans were part of a larger organized gambling, extortion and loan-shark racket controlled by Ligambi and his associates, and that the money flowed up.

The testimony came on the second day of Orlando's coming out as a government cooperator at the trial for Ligambi, Canalichio and five others. It was also his first day of cross-examination, and the lawyers pounced.

Under questioning from Ligambi's lawyer, Orlando conceded he was never beaten over his mounting debt, and that he never saw Canalichio or others on trial beat someone else who owed them money. He also agreed that tough talk and name-dropping is routine in South Philly, the false currency that people trade to get things done.

The lawyer, Edwin Jacobs, Jr., suggested that Orlando deliberately inserted Ligambi's name into the conversation that day, when Canalichio could have been referring to someone else named Joey.

"You were a cooperating witness for the government, and you knew darn well what they were trying to do was get something on tape that implicated Joe Ligambi," Jacobs asserted.

Orlando denied it.

"I was not instructed to use his name, Uncle Joe," he said "That's not true."

Often looking toward the defendants, Orlando, 45, has portrayed himself as tortured over the decision to cooperate.

Canalichio, he said, was "a dear friend." Reputed underboss Joseph "Mousie" Massimino had his utmost respect, "treated me very well" and may have intervened to keep one particularly aggressive loan shark off his back.

But Orlando told jurors he felt like he had no choice after learning in 2001 that his half-brother had been wearing a wire and gathering evidence against mobsters, including when he paid off some of Orlando's debts.

The defense lawyers have argued the case is built on fabrications from criminals trying to save themselves.

At the time he began cooperating, Orlando owed thousands of dollars to several sharks, loaned at 30 percent interest that compounded weekly.

"One of the reasons you had debt was because you're a complete gambling degenerate, isn't that right?" said Canalichio's lawyer, Maggie Gross, delivering a point Orlando didn't contest.

Jacobs noted that Orlando had admitted staging a fake auto accident, running a credit scam, selling drugs and robbing a drug dealer - but that none of the proceeds went to the defendants who prosecutors contend controlled South Philadelphia crime.

He parsed the plea agreement, one that Orlando signed with prosecutors after being charged in the credit scheme almost a decade ago. He faced up to 16 months in prison under federal sentencing guidelines, but ended up getting probation.

"The bottom line is that for the bank fraud, drug dealing, the robbery, bogus auto accidents . . . The total time you did in jail is what, zero? Not a day in jail?" Jacobs asked.

"I put my life at risk just wearing a wire," Orlando said. "I put my life at risk here today testifying. That's enough to do. For the rest of my life I have to look over my shoulder."

"But not one day in jail, right?" Jacobs shot back.

"Not one day in jail," Orlando conceded, "but maybe a bullet in my head someday."

Orlando has spent nearly a decade in the witness protection program. He said he is married with children and a steady job in another state.

"Can you ever come back to Philadelphia?" Assistant U.S. Attorney John Han asked.

"Absolutely not," Orlando said. "What I'm doing here today will be my death sentence."

His testimony is scheduled to resume Tuesday.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Contact John P. Martin at 215-854-4774, at jmartin@phillynews.com, or follow @JPMartinInky on Twitter.

Maybe not but I'm sure you at least attended one of their games

@ SPMOB...Only hang arounds go to court n wannabes?? What if your father or brother was on trial, would you go to court?? That's not funny... N I can read, I do have a bachelors degree unlike you who probably dropped out in 11th grade. And if you can read GA n Dave have been one sided about this case from day one. Just recently other reporters have been reporting on this case. So you don't think there's an agenda against these guys?? Seriously?? Because there's an agenda....Am I naive? No I'm not, but buddy you haven't heard ANY of the evidence, so how are you so sure they are gonna be convicted?? I'm not trying to be funny this case is serious. You said this is a forum for discussion but how can you talk about something when you don't know any of the facts??? You are going off of hearsay... And court was over at 4pm today...how can a report be out that quick?? I'm not a reporter, I'm not here to give you the blow by blow. If you wanna know something go to court and listen....

@merlino... I'm glad you work... I do too..Obama didn't help me either...but honestly nobody on here is really interested that you work...So it's an open and shut case because of the dead guys tapes?? Really happy to know your not on the jury...how can you possible say it's an open and shut case without even hearing the tapes???? You make no sense!! And no I never walk by and hear guys screaming.

@oldhead all the guys look great! I don't know if they are bored... I'm sure their not having a good time in jail...Who would...

I'm not on here to argue with any of you guys but I can't sit back and read nonsense!! The 2 FBI agents are going to be the nail in the coffin?? Really??
Why cause someone wrote an article and said 2 FBI agents were involved with this case?

Right:) everyone acts like they wanna know till you tell em.YOU GO BOY

southphilly13 thank you for taking the time out to explain a few things to these internet speculators lol

hey southphillyoldhead is steve mazzone now the acting boss? if so how do you think he'll do

I heard Ligambi's defense lawyer made a fool out of Orlando. He was asked to identify Damion twice and couldn't do it. If the FBI hope to put them in jail which I hope they don't, they will need people much more credible

Witnesses are weak. Tapes are strong.

Lately on these boards I see a lot of guys that may have a little more interest in this trial because of family members or friends involved.To me this leads to some of the posters taking things very personal.For the ones that don't actually live in South Philly just go on a lot of what they read and a lot of just reading between the lines.My gut feeling on this case is I feel like there may be some convictions based on the fact of the tapes,some of the guys already accepting deals[I feel like if they thought they could win they would not have done that] and also the fact that the Feds have been on this gathering info since like 2000.I would think they would have something substancial by this time.Even though I feel like that,that doesn't mean I want them to get convicted or I dislike them in any way.It just seems like a lot of guys are lashing out if you don't agree with them or if you think these guys are guilty.

i can only say this that i heard Mazzone is not running things!!

Southphilly13 thanks for your imput, its refreshing to hear somebody that is inside talking so positive. I think the charges are crap and hope your family member beats the charges as well as everybody else! What about some of the guys that took deals what your feel on them? Marty. Gaeton, Lou Sheep, and Lou Fazzini? Why would they take those deals?

These particular charges may be crap (I don't know), but in my opinion it's clear it's all happening just because Ligambi's gang has committed more serious crimes which cannot be proven (like Ligambi killing D'Alfonso etc), so they are going after them with minor charges to get them at least for SOMETHING, like in Al Capone's case.
But why do you want EVERYBODY of them to beat the charges?
Don't get mad at me, it's just a question.

Got a masters sweetie and I live on 10th n ritner ...I know both sides of the world. I do also read papers n listen to the street. We talking in babrber shop right now. I said for you to give your opinion on what went down in court before the paper the next day so that we can hear your side as well. I hope these guys don't get a lot of time for bs gambling case but use act lime these guys are saints. The way the gov works n the evidence they do have they are getting convicted. That's why the others pleaded out

I work 8 to 6 each day so old head is gonna take my spot at court next week

so when this guy damion says its uncle joes money or its steve and joeys money to the wired up informant that clears him of loansharking right? cause he just said this isnt my thing, i guess he beats that charge. but it just convicted, in my opion uncle joe of giving this olrlando guy a loan. maybe the jury doent see it that way just going off what i read. i live 5 hours from philly so its not personal.i guess the lawyer wil say did joe ligambi personly give you x amount of money which he probaly didnt. i just want to read what pete the crumb(this guys ancient) and milano say. wonder why delgerno or crow arnt called up if there alive. good luck to who ever has family in this trial. money for lawyers in this case must be crushing pockets.

^^^it doesnt matter if the money was mazzone and ligambi and damion was just collecting it, that makes him an accessory to the actual loan-sharking cause he is the one collecting the payments and probably giving it back to ligambi or mazzone

why is everybody so "surprised" on the background of this recent witness, orlando? who else did you expect to be called upon as a witness against the mob? a teacher, a nun? obcourse its going to be a scumbag who himself has broken the law (drug dealing, etc). That's the nature of the game, you make deals with whoever is willing to talk (ala Gravano) to get to your ultimate goal (ala Gotti) which is the conviction of the top echelon of the Philly LCN.

This case hasnt even gotten warmed up yet, just wait till they start bringing out the Nicky Skins tapes, surveilliance footage (photos, videos), bent finger lou, pete the crumb and gene milano, ligambi union health care fund records, fbi agents, etc.

They are just laying the groundwork right now. It hasnt even gotten good yet.

So who is the boss?

Also what has Mazzone,Chang,Nicodemo, Lance been up to.. Only 4 high profile guys on the street...

How does one gain access to the courtroom?As a potential law student I would like to see how the proceedings play out in this particular kind of case. How early do I have to get there to get a seat, start time, room number, etc?

im pretty sure anyone can go to the courtroom

I also work and cant get to court, but think a rico charge is really hard to beat. As far as Orlando going up there and looking bad,it really is not gona be that way the whole trial. Dont you find it a little coincidental that the 2 weakest witnesses took the stand first. I bet that its a calculated decision so that the last few witnesses will be the strongest so it sticks in the jurys head

i know its off subject alittle but im reading about the old john stanfa trial if they had killed john veasey when they were shooting him point blank after learning he was co operating with the fbi all those guys would be free cause he killed the 3 guys that they all got life for, i think stanfa and them would have got time but with out veasey not life. there were alot of low lifes in stanfa trial but they all fell like domino's after veasy gave up the murders. was al pagamas a south philly legend his nickname is the one original that i never heard duplicated.

Well why didn't you reply to the hanger ons and wannabe comments? You don't need to justify your believe to me but you do need to be fair and think for a minute before you speak. Lashing out and defending yourself against criticism or name calling are two different things. I think your the one who's being prejudice if you think having to defend yourself is lashing out.you can have your opinion or talk details but once you criticize you will be called on it and only a dog would have a problem with that.

I always wondered how did the Stanfa crew know that VEasey was cooperating when they attempted to kill him...did they have a mole in the fbi? how?

i think veasey had told his brother and a couple of friends that he was going to meet with the fbi and feel them out and someone told someone and it seald his fate cause he left the fbi building and walk straight into the set up on his life but god was looking outafter him cause he made it out of a room with a guy shooting straight into the back of your head. i watchd his little episode on youtube he even admits to be be blind and stupid.

Veasey suspected his brother Billy may of ratted him out to the Merlino crew. It was in his book.

After all of this I think court will be cancelled for Ligambi and friends!

I have his book,it was pretty good. Doesnt mean the Merlino crew told Stanfa about Veasey...I would think they would be glad to have Stanfa out of the picture.

I just remember Veasey saying in his book that he thought it was very possible his brother dimed him out that he was wired up. But he didn't know for sure.

Honestly i would think the odds are much higher that the brother put out the word like Veasey thought was a possibility, then Stanfa having a source in the FBI. If Stanfa did have a source inside the feds you would think he would of known about Ron Previte also being an informant. Just my opinion on it.

I'm not sure where you are going with this.What do yo mean by why didn't I reply to the comments about the wannabe's or hanger on's.I did not say that,thats none of my business.My point is this,nobody really knows the inter-workings of the mob unless you are a part of of it.I don't know how many guys on this board are part of it,but there might as well not even be a board because its all based on speculation and opinions.When South Philly13 said you have to be there[in court] to hear the evidence,he's probably right,but who can do that.the little problem I had with old head we worked it out and I have stayed in the background since then,because I know how a lot of you guys feel so I'll just listen for now,I have been nothing but respectful on these boards,again explain to me what I am missing.

Also when you say criticize you can't mean me,I have never even once criticized anyone on these boards.

Yea, I figured Billy probably mentioned to the Merlino crew that John had turned. Billy was later killed by the Merlino crew as "revenge" for the Mikey Chang hit, it was a brother for a brother according to Natale who testified about the murder.

That is interesting and I never would have thought Billy would of dimed out his brother cause I believe that Billy was the one that talked John John into ratting!
Unless he thought by talking his brother into ratting against Stanfa that his brother would get some pass or maybe even himself!

Yeah Billy was the one who convinced John to turn.

The Philly family def has an interesting history to say the least.

whats the latest? has been relatively quiet for a major mob trial

Oct. 31, 2012

FBI agent details the mob life at Ligambi trial

By John P. Martin
INQUIRER STAFF WRITER


Joaquin Garcia was an appropriate witness for a mob trial on Halloween.

Over two years, the Cuban-born FBI agent donned the most convincing disguise: Jack Falcone, a Miami-bred thief and scam artist who became such a trusted associate that a Gambino crime family captain proposed Falcone's induction as a made member.

On Wednesday, federal prosecutors at the trial of the alleged leaders of the Philadelphia mob cast Garcia in another role. He was the professor, the expert with real-life experience enlisted to provide jurors an inside look at La Cosa Nostra and to interpret its members' conversations at secretly recorded gatherings.

Garcia described the induction process, the hierarchy, and the way the mob makes its money.

"The source of their power is intimidation," Garcia said under questioning from Assistant U.S. Attorney David Fritchey. "The source of their power is their ability to conduct violence in furtherance of their objectives."

He also weighed for jurors the significance of reputed Philadelphia mob boss Joseph "Uncle Joe" Ligambi's trip to a North Jersey restaurant in 2010. There, Ligambi met with John Gambino, a captain representing the administration of the New York crime families.

"This is a very important meeting," Garcia said after jurors heard secretly recorded excerpts of the gathering. "You're dealing with two families coming together to meet. And the fact that the New York Gambino crime family came to New Jersey to meet with Philadelphia shows that New York is recognizing Philadelphia to be a vital La Cosa Nostra crime family."

Garcia, 60, testified as the racketeering trial against Ligambi and six others entered its third week before U.S. District Judge Eduardo Robreno. Prosecutors say the defendants ran a network that used threats to control illegal gambling, extortion, and loan-sharking rackets across the city.

Defense lawyers say the charges are flimsy, lack any substantive proof of violence, and are built on the word of discredited informants and criminals trying to save themselves. During earlier testimony Wednesday, Ligambi's attorney pressed another FBI agent to explain how gathering for a meal in a public restaurant was a crime.

"That's a big part of their lifestyle, isn't it? A nice lunch, a nice dinner, maybe a snack in between," quipped the lawyer, Edwin Jacobs.

At roughly 300 pounds, Garcia might not disagree. "Bottom line is that we ate more with the mob than you do on a cruise ship," he later testified, detailing the lifestyle.

Now retired, Garcia is no stranger to Philadelphia. He was stationed here in the late 1990s, working undercover to detect and disrupt drug cartel pipelines that supplied dealers in North Philadelphia. But his mob work came a decade later, when he was recruited to infiltrate the Gambino crime family.

His dark hair and imposing frame gave him a presence, but Garcia said he realized he was always in danger. Undercover work, particularly within the Mafia, "is kind of like being an actor, except the difference is you don't get second or third takes," he said.

After passing himself off as a low-level criminal, he befriended and became the driver and confidant for Gregory DePalma, a Gambino captain, and gathered intelligence about the crime families.

Garcia said he once proposed to DePalma that they work with an associate in Philadelphia, a man who he secretly knew was an undercover FBI agent. But DePalma cautioned him against getting entangled with counterparts in the City of Brotherly Love.

"He said, if you go with Philadelphia, you got to watch out, it's the wild, wild West down there," the ex-agent said.

Garcia also described for jurors the initiation ceremony, where bosses and other members gather in a circle as the newly made member stands before a table that holds a knife and a gun.

"That's symbolic," he told jurors. "That means you're going to live and die by the process of those two things."

In decades past, mobsters had to have committed a murder to be considered for induction, because killers usually couldn't also be FBI cooperators, Garcia said.

That's changed.

"The mob has morphed over the years. They realize that guys with blood on their hands have cooperated, have testified," he said. "Now, foremost you have to be an earner."

His testimony is scheduled to continue Thursday.

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/break ... trial.html

Yea they were involved as you can see above. Just like you say don't believe everything you read. Don't believe everything your brother and south philly tell you. The witnesses will get even better as the trial goes on.

So what happened in court today...you should probably be getting out soon. Let us know how it went.

the fact that government framed this as a RICO case and is now building the blocks that support this, that is going to be hard for these guys to get from under it. I'll give you some of the lowlifes that are involved are not credible but the undercover FBI agents and eventual govt wiretaps will be

Was the trial postponed due to the Hurricane?

Most of the Government's rats are full of hot air anyway .