Does the Italian Mafia have any connections in GB?

Since the Ndrangheta or the Calabrian Mafia have a very strong influence on the European Cocaine trade and dominate it, is it possible that they supply a lot of GB's cocaine? I know they have a strong presence in the rest of Europe especially Germany but we almost never hear about the Mafia here in Britain. I read a few articles about them having some money laundering operations here but are they involved in any other rackets? Do they not have a solid base here in GB where they control drugs? maybe even other rackets like extortion and so on..

Thanks for your help guys.

Maybe they operate behind the curtains, but they don't have any real 'turf' there. The thing with Great Britain is, is that there already is a pretty brutal and powerful presence of homegrown and other foreign OC groups. But it's definitely possible that some members of the Ndrangheta or the Camorra supply cocaine to the groups in Britain.
As for Germany, the Ndrangheta is very strong there, but also behind the curtains. The criminal activities of German Hells Angels, Albanian, Turkish, Russian and Serb mobs or Mhallami family clans are much more visible.

Impressive map Strax, Where did you get this? I wonder all together how many members of all the mafias are in the UK

I think that those clans are mostly using GB for money laundering. But really 'controlling' OC activities there, no not by any stretch of the imagination.

Yeah i definitely concur. We've never really heard of a large Italian OC presence across the English Channel. Likely, cause it doesn't exist in in viable way.

Prolly a few guys over their to aid in some operations. Or as contacts to homegrown groups. Like emissaries.

Yeah, probably as contacts to the groups already operating in GB. GB already has a large crime scene. Homegrown British 'Firms', Yardies, Nigerians, South Asians, Triads, Black British and Somali gangs, Turkish and Kurdish clans, Albanian mobs,...it's already overpopulated there lol.
And regarding the homegrown crime firms : the Adams from Islington, the Hunts from Canning Town, Liverpudlian and Manchester clans,...I would never ever mess with those guys

The Camorra were in Aberdeen .

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/uk-wor...fia-gang-995387

Thanks for the Info guys. Yeah, I've also only heard that the Italian clans only use GB for money laundering and since there are already established organized crime groups in the UK, the Italian clans even if they did want to set up there, they probably would have to fight a few violent gangs wars which they probably don't want because they want to keep things more quiet. I don't think they'd have any difficulty though in taking out their rivals, I think it's all a matter of secrecy and being low key. However how come in Britain there are never really any gang wars, with the amount of crime groups here, they aren't violent at all when compared to other countries...

Aren't their gun laws really strict? I dunno if it's true or not but I have it in my mind. Pretty sure all of Europe has some pretty strict anti-gun laws.

But like that would be a real deterrent anyways. These are criminals we're talking about afterall. Laws don't really mean all that much.

Italian OC in UK aren't looking to fight established groups and takeover etc, usually there just there to launder their money and set up connections for drugs etc.

Shootings in suburbs happen regularly.
In terms of violence between the homegrown firms...they happen and it gets just as messy as stuff in other countries.
George Bromley from Liverpool for instance used to tax rival drug lords. His favourite method was kidnapping a rival and putting a red hot iron to the guy's scrotum. Also in Liverpool rivals shoot each other to pieces regularly. The same things happen in Manchester.
In London there was a crime firm from the East End which moved into the drug's business by violently hijacking other drug lords and dealers. This included kidnapping the guy and taking him away to a cellar after which they smashed the guy to pieces with a sledgehammer. Read the book Judas Pig by Horace Silver if you want to know more about this firm. It's a novel but it's based of situations that really did happen. The same firm also once tortured a guy in a slaughterhouse for two weeks, cutting him to pieces slowly, after which they burned him while he was still, but barely alive.
Notoriously gruesome things happen in Great Britain. Just as bad as the things that happen in the USA or Italy.

However homicide rates are extremely low, lowest since the 60s presently, last year there was under 150 murders for the whole of London, a city of 7 million.

what about other violent crime such as assaults/robberies? i here that kind of crime is pretty common in london.

Yeah not too sure on that, just know you got to be careful not to be influenced by the media on crime, same in America, homicides are way down there too generally though often the media would have you believe your in Baghdad.

Yes, there is a presence.

Not as large as say the Americas or eastern-mid Europe but they have been known to operate in London, Scotland, the midlands.

Matter of fact, there were two Comorra members found wading through the overgrowth in the midlands not too long ago. It was in the papers... they got lost.

in germany italian turkish and serb organized crime are the most active among foreign groups

in gb there are little activities but in london there are several italian fugitives living there

Yeah those groups are very active in Germany, but have you heard about the Al-Zein, Miri and Abu-Chaker clans ? They are Mhallami clans. In Germany they are often called 'Lebanese Kurds' or 'Arabs', but in fact the Mhallami are neither of those. They are mostly Islamicised Assyrians with Kurdish and Arab admixture. So they are a pretty distinct group of people. They immigrated from Lebanon to Germany. Like the Turkish or Albanian crime clans they have organized family-based criminal gangs. For instance, the Miri-clan alone makes about 50 million euros each year in the city of Bremen alone. Al-Zein was also named the 'druglord of Berlin'.

Some links in German (I hope you can read them :D) :
Al-Zein
Miri clan
clans

short841 the map that loaded Strax have loaded it time ago I, along with other sections of the book ''Mafia Export'' Francesco Forgione,search my old posts for the others map of crime in England.

yes but i'm talking about the most active and powerful among foreign organized crime groups according to german police, of course there are many others in germany

When you make 50 million in one city alone, you are very active and pretty powerful in my book. I don't think the Turkish gangs in Germany make this much. Mahmoud Al-Zein is also regarded as one of the most powerful crime bosses in Germany, by the public as well as by the police. So yeah, these guys are big time.
As for homegrown OC in Germany, never underestimate the German Hells Angels. They are really powerful and they even had a personal death squad in Kiel involved in the torturing and murder of rivals. That's pretty effed up lol

Stats say otherwise. Detroit had more murders in 2010 than London and Manchester combined, with a tenth of the population. So no, they don't have as many acts of violence in the UK as they do in the USA. Feel free to show the stats that say otherwise.

the lebaneses are not even close to turkish in germany



yes they are among the domestic groups

Violent crime worse in Britain
Most violent country in Europe

Less murders, yeah probably. But the really gruesome stuff that happens in Britain is as bad as the stuff that happens in the USA.

http://mumbleinthejungle.com/2012/05/22/...vid-gillanders/

My city lol

There are a lot of Turkish youth gangs in Germany, yeah of course. But in terms of organized crime the Mhallami are just as bad as the Turks in Germany.

Word to the wise though i haven't read the 2 you've posted but the Daily Mail is notorious for blowing things out of proportion .

but some mhallami comes from turkey am i right? so maybe german police put them among turkish organized crime

Yes you're right ! Some of the Mhallami also come from Mardin in Turkey. But I thought most of them emigrated from Lebanon. But yes, maybe they're also put among Turkish OC eventhough they aren't ethnic Turks. Kurdish OC is also put among Turkish OC. In Great Britain for instance, there are both ethnic Turkish and ethnic Kurdish gangsters. But both of them get grouped under 'Turkish organized crime'.

I heard the British press in general is notorious for blowing things out of proportion But there's no denying in the fact that crime in Britain is pretty bad. Maybe not as bad as the USA, but still pretty bad. And the thing is, wherever there's crime in Belgium, Scandinavian countries, etc...they always put the blame on immigrants. But in Great Britain a lot of the indigenous people also seem to be involved in a lot of crime.

Tell me about it, I stopped reading it a while back. Somebody posted about the gun laws in Europe being tight, whilst in Britain that may be true, that is certainly not the case in other European countries. In Italy, it's very, very common for a household to have some kind of gun and since Italy despite what people think, is a very lawless country it wouldn't surprise me. Britain the most violent in Europe? After this years holiday to Italy I would rather walk around Brixton, London naked shouting "I hate Blacks" than even step foot into some of the dodgy areas of Milan; and Milan isn't even that bad compared to somewhere like Scampia, Naples.

Thanks for these contributions everyone though, they mean a lot.

Good luck with the Brixton scenario

milan is very quite compared to london, the worst areas in milan are quarto oggiaro, baggio, rozzano and comasina, mostly populated by southern italians but they are run by mafias than gangs like london

Unfortunately they do blow things out of proportion. It's due to our size, our media feel the need to make a mountain out of a molehill in what I can only speculate is a pissing contest with other countries of larger mass.

On a side note: The UK's crime rate is going to be considerably smaller than that of the US due to the astronomical difference in population.

Finally, the indigenous of the UK are more violent than the foreign influences. We have a number of organized criminal gangs (this term is used loosely) who routinely practice violence. We have a large biker gang following, Football hooliganism, the London firms, smaller gangs in other major cities, and the Scottish have their own brand of criminal gangs who are incredibly violent, most of which are 80%-90% indigenous membership.

Unless you run into a British equivalent of Zeus from Die Hard With A Vengeance, you're fucked on that score
Didn't know Milan was this bad though...
Napels on the other hand, is damn gnarly

Yeah, the book I mentioned 'Judas Pig' contains some stuff that made the hair on the back of my neck stand up. It's about a Firm from Canning Town. Some seriously twisted stuff.

No one is saying violent crime never happens in Britain. Violent crime happens everywhere even Norway as we saw last year. Doesnt mean it happens on near the scale in Norway as it does in the USA. Like I said show us some stats, not an article with a single reporters opinion. When a countries police force doesn't carry guns you will have a hard time convincing people it is a violent country.

It's widely known that violent crime happens a lot in Britain and for the record much more than in any other Western European country. Not as much as in the USA, agreed. But I don't understand why you keep whining about that topic.
By the way, the Daily Mail might blow things out of proportion but they still give what you call 'stats'. If that aren't stats, I don't know what are.

Certain divisions of HM Police force are licensed to carry and use firearms. Although many divisions have been deployed with modern non-lethal weapons (CS Spray, Tazers, Stun Gun etc.) there are still many who carry firearms.

So in other words many divisions don't carry firearms? Enough said.

I'm from Manchester, don't buy into the hype, UK is really not bad at all in the grand scheme of things, Manchester had 34 homicides for the whole of 2011. London for the 2010-11 period had 136. This makes Britain amongst the lowest homicide rates in Europe and the world. And yeah the daily mail is a joke of a newspaper, everyone in Britain knows this. Stick to the Times or the Guardian to cut through the hype.
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/murder-ra...se-6555737.html

Perhaps the British government was smart enough to ban firearms before our students started shooting our comprehensive schools up.

And a lot of the killings that happen seem to be gang-related. So yeah, maybe not as bad as I thought...
But in newspapers in general do blow things out of proportion. If you were to believe the Belgian newspapers, Brussels is the single most dangerous city you will ever visit. Which is complete bullshit.

It may not be common for the police to carry guns but there have been some instances.

http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/spl/...ngsters-1.65866

This happened around the corner from my house. Also the London riots started because the police shot some guy dead.

Is Glasgow really that bad as they want you to believe. It seems the only thing you hear from that city are knife stabbings among teenagers or crime clans at war like the Daniel and the Lyons clan.

Its bad for drug use, heroin to be specific...

wasn't that where trainspotting was filmed?

It's not as bad as before in the early 2000s it was called the murder capital of Europe which maybe bs regardless though the murder rate has dropped dramatically. As Nicky said one of our big problems is Heroin use.

That was Edinburgh .

The Camorra has a small crew based in Aberdeen lead by Antonio La Torre. The London "Kray Family" also has connection's within Lucchese's with Carmine Tramunti.

You have alot of Italian's in Edinburgh.

I already said the Aberdeen thing. Where did you hear about the Krays and Lucchesses?

My father worked in the underworld in London even though I was born in America. He told me he did Racket's with their Uncle's and once met them still has strong connection's with the new people in London. He told me Lucchese's and The Kray's worked together in shipping Alcohol.

Well sorry but i can't take you're word for that i've never heard any connections between the Krays and LCN. Also the Krays were jailed just a year after Carmine became boss.

Tramunti was a member before he was a Boss LOL.

Dont have to take my word, I understand. Kray's also had power with other Familie's in America to help build their Empire.

I also don't think any gangster from the Krays' era is still running around in London. Frankie Fraser and Charlie Richardson are still alive, but they absolutely loathed the Krays.

Fair enough i thought you meant when he was boss. I still don't believe they were working with LCN though .

I apologize just found this saying they met up with Angelo Bruno .

http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/gangsters_outlaws/mob_bosses/kray/time_14.html

Dont apologize, I didnt know Ronnie met with Joey Gallo and Philly Angelo Bruno. Something, I'll need to ask him about.

Ask who about ?

Ronnie Kray ? Good luck with that...the guy died 17 years ago

My father -_-.

Sorry, i apologize

im from london. i have never heard of any presence of the italian mafia in the uk apart from fugitives in the news. my mother used to tell me stories about what the mafia does to people to deter me from the life that a lot of my family took. that is the only presence ive ever known of the mob, through stories designed to stop me from entering a life of crime. the uk has a huge gang presence with serious crews in all major cities. from ldn to manchester to newcastle. a firm that were huge in ldn and the uk were the north ldn addams family with so many murders under their belt. they structureed their family on the mob and were v successful. they even franchised their name to drug dealers. growing up a lot of people feared these lot. to say ldn is not bad is crazy. i have 1 cousin murdered, 1 cousin jailed for 15 years for heroin dealing after beating a murder rap, 1 cousin 8 years for ammunition possession drugs and more, 1 cousin in jail for gbh. huge crime presence in ldn, heard many a murder war story from each of these lot. stories of bullets flying past their heads, them shooting bosnian drug dealers in the chest, executions over girls, chopping someones arm off with a machete that owed him money used to have me eavesdropping on conversations whilst at my uncles house years ago. funny who you idolize as a kid! thats the black underworld ive known which is quite organised. the turks have a big presence also. i remmeber many an execution over drugs amongst them. 1 sticks out in my mind - a motorbike pulled up to his range rover with his wife and kid with him and executed him with shots to the head. think that was in 2009 in tottenham - big turkish drig dealer. anyways im ranting now lol

As far as I know all Italian groups use the UK mostly as a money laundering machine: restaurants, import/exports, real estate, etc...

It's hard to believe that they don't have any presence on British/Scottish soil.
I can bet that there are lots of Italian store/restaurant owners that pay protection...as usual.

The La Torre Camorra clan from Mondragone was (is?) radicated in Aberdeen

sorry i meant in a more physical presence as in other crimes apart from money laundering. around london there is no presence of a mafia family that are known and feared (that ive heard of and i have a pretty good knowledge of the undeerworld and who the players are in the uk)

what the hell the krays met with lcn!!!!!! never knew this what a find great info

What do you mean by presence?
Like a drug dealer from Naples selling X on the streets? Nahh...that's hard to see.

Look at Germany: it's filled with Ndrangheta clans but the average pusher/street punk are mostly easter-european or middle-eastern.

Trust me, they might not mug grannies nor rob 7/11 stores, but there are there...just a few layers up.

well i am a londoner and i do know the streets. never heard of any mafia family being feared in the uk. even the higher ups are feared and known and i have not heard of any mafioso in this respect. they may be financiers that of other groups crime but i doubt it as there would most likely be some evidence. as soon as there was a mafia family sniffing around anything in london something would get out. would be sensational as england is such a place. yardies, turks, black english, essex firms, all types of eastern european groups, african crime groups, triads but no mafia. would love to see some evidence of them in the uk. not the aberdeen connection as it seems like a laying low type op as there is very limited opportunities in a random scottish place like this. i mean active in cities such as london, manchester with actual schemes. my point is i have never heard of it.

Check out this streetboss possible mafia hit in LDN http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roberto_Calvi

i read about this not long ago funny you bring it up. how powerful must they of been to have traced him to central london and whack him in such a way?

This mafia boss from Sicily was living in UK at the time http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/may/12/roberto-calvi-blackfriars-bridge-mafia

That had some inspiration for godfather 3 didn't it nicky?

yeah the whole shitty bankers story in gf3 was based loosely on this whole situation.

Are the Essex firms still big players in London?

the essex firms always have a presence throughout the uk. the old school guys of a similar age to carlton leach, vic the dark will always have names around london and further and the game never stops. new guys r filtering through from all directions usually in the form of juiced up nutcases. The old guys in their 50s and above still run all organised crime with the youngers doing their dirty work. every now and again an old school essex name pops up so u know they are still players.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O97Blrf_mtc

rise of the footsoldiers is a movie i would recommend for everyone btw. complete true story

Great film!
Since there aren't a lot of white British people in London anymore I think the base of the homegrown white British crime firms has moved from London to Essex and Kent.
The only big homegrown firms I know of in London are the Adams crew and the Hunt firm.

They still hold weight to be honest. Their institutions in ldn and ppl will always fear them. The addams family were of white and black enforcers. "They have been linked to 25 gangland murders, using Afro-Caribbean muscle as additional manpower to murder informants and rival criminals." complete mix. However the newer gangs emerging in ldn of english nationality are black but not as organised and extremely deadly. the essex firms depicted in rise of the footsoldiers carried a lot of weight in east ldn btw.

Seconded, it's a great movie, a complete true story is a massive stretch though lol.

The days of the old school mobs are over I guess. The Adams family will remain the most famous I think. Outside of them, I knew about the Hunt firm and the Brindles that are pretty well known in local circles. Not to forget about the Arifs, who are Turkish Cypriots but kinda operate like a British firm.
For the rest I know there's a big Yardie presence along with Somali and Nigerian gangs and Black British crews like the Tottenham Mandem. These black gangs don't seem to be as organized in general.
The Turks/Kurds, Russians, Albanians and Vietnamese also seem to pack some heavy weight.

yeah i think i should take the word complete out but it must be credited with the fact it does not claim to know the true ending and gives many alternatives. my elder family member who was around that life at the time did say it was pretty accurate and spoke of how nasty these guys were and deserved the fate they received. so with a close family member as my source along with my mate's fathers i would call it an accurate film.

that tottenham mandem name is really old school from like the 80s or something. people have wrote on wiki about them and over the internet but that name is not used anymore and it wasnt organised enough to have newcomers. there are thousands of gangs all over ldn with a million diff names but that is def not 1 of them lol. not sure about the vietmanese in ldn either.

Here's a CL documentary

Part 1 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JgeqzTKU2hE

Part 2 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aAcLEaPBJCU

Physical presence doesn't always translate in actual power.
Large-scale money laundering, on the other hand, means that a certain criminal organization has reached a different, higher level.

Owning businesses and estates is more relevant crime-wise than chopping people heads off.

The fact that someone has never heard of any Italian presence in London simply means that he doesn't belong to their same environment.

i don't think there are mafia crime families active in the uk, maybe same small gang of neapolitans or some fugitives living over there
there are money laundering operations and business owned by mafia that's sure
even in the 50s there were not mafia families there, although several ordinary italian street gangs at that time, like the messina brothers

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/dec/27/mafia-crime-italy-gangs-camorra

Is Mafia even an Italian word?

This is horrible if it's true - The 'Ndrangheta boasts a turnover of £40bn, which is larger than the GDPs of Estonia and Slovenia combined

yes, thats what i thought
the are money laundering operations and business at high levels
the italians today are mostly behind the scene like the russians in london and uk
not visible on the streets like turks, blacks or local gangs

There really isn't much Italian OC in the UK.

a decent fun movie giving you a feel of OC in Ldn. definitely 1 for anyone not from here looking to feel the vibe of it all. made in 06 though so a tad old. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O97Blrf_mtc

and camarel thats a good documentary on c.l, i see it a while back. good find though i forgot about it

Hopefully all these echoes will help someone update his knowledge on contemporary European OC.

Originally Posted By: Camarel

There really isn't much Italian OC in the UK.

..or maybe not.

that's what i said, there is not street level organized crime, not structured families
but there are money laundering operations and business behind the scene although it's unknown the level

Italian authorities say they have busted a rigged slot machine racket run by the 'Ndangheta or Calabrian Mafia in Italy, Britain and Romania, and in raids on 150 locations have arrested 29 individuals and seized assets worth 90 million euros ($120 million) as reported by ANSA: "the head of the ring had a rap sheet that included international drug and arms trafficking."

http://www.ansa.it/web/notizie/rubriche/...et_8123846.html

Originally Posted By: Take The Cannolies

Italian authorities say they have busted a rigged slot machine racket run by the 'Ndangheta or Calabrian Mafia in Italy, Britain and Romania, and in raids on 150 locations have arrested 29 individuals and seized assets worth 90 million euros ($120 million) as reported by ANSA: "the head of the ring had a rap sheet that included international drug and arms trafficking."

http://www.ansa.it/web/notizie/rubriche/...et_8123846.html

See...you don't need to chop yardies heads off to earn a quid.
Italians stopped watching Guy Ritchie's movies a looong time ago...for their own good.

Thanks for the update Cannolis.