State of the Families

I know this topic has probably been covered a million times in various other threads, but I thought I'd put my own spin and opinion on this. The stae of the mafia families in the US and how they are currently. I'll go down the list.
Power: Rank on scale of 1-10
Genovese- They take hits, but far fewer than the rest of New York. Their secret and not at all flashy. They have the most men on the street and no one matches them in terms of power. Like every family, they aren't what they used to be. But these guys are still the Ivy League of organized crime: 9
Gambino- Cefalu is free and a fair amount of capos with Lenny DiMaria due out soon and others. These guys nearly destroyed themselves when the Gotti's were in power, but they've kept it together somehow. No big indictments since take down day: 8
Lucchese- Crea will benefit the Family being the top boss. They have about 100 soldiers, and they have plenty of captains still on the street. Third most powerful after Gambino and Genovese:7
Bonanno- They've been shaky since Massino turned informant. No boss has stayed on the street for more than three years. As with all the New York Families, they still have a sizable precense and plenty of bread winners: 6
Colombo- Easily the weakest of the Five. But I agree with IvyLeague. They aren't going anywhere, but with their entire administration locked up, the outlook is grim. Still the mafia has proven to be resilient. So will they: 4
Chicago Outfit- From from hurt after Marcello, Calabrese, and Lombardo were locked up. DiFronzo and co. have plenty of guys on the street, though not as widespread as New York, they are still active within Chicago and are running strong: 7.5
Philly- A year and a half ago they would've been at least a 7. Now they are in transition period, trying to hold off the Feds while Ligambi is on trial. Merlino will take the reins again, but as to how long he'll remain out of jail is anyone's guess: 4
DeCavalcante- No big indictments since 2005, and Frank Guaracci and Joe Miranda are still on the street. New Jersey is anyone's guess because little is known about them right now, but mine is that they are operating but I'm not sure if they've climbed out of the hole: 6
Patriarca- This Family is an absolute mess. The DiNunzio brothers are in prison, DeLuca and Rossetti turned informant. There's no clear boss and the North End faction is severely weakened: 3
Buffalo- I don't think anyone really knows about this Family anymore. Some say they are still fairly active, others claim their operations are independent from one another. I wouldn't call them dead, but I've heard Lenny Falzone is boss and they still run gambling in upstate New York: 4
Detroit- Another mysterious Family. Jack Tocco is Boss, and he's been out of the can since 2001. They are all getting old, but probably are still reeling in money. What influence they hold outside of Detroit is anyone's guess. But I'll give them a 6.5 since they avoid law enforcement.

Alright I'm done. Any thoughts?

i think you rated the patriarca's a little low

Even with all the recent shit that's happened to them?

yeah but they still probably got 35-50 guys on the street. How long are The DiNunzio brothers in jail

Anthony DiNunzio's case is pending. Carmine DiNunzio is serving six years. He was sentenced in 2009. He'll be out in 2015. Even so that Family has had some major hits within the last three yeats

Peter limone avoided jail time too

How ca n you have New England at 3 while Detroit is 6.5 and Buffalo are 4? Regardless of the hits they've take they're still much larger and more active than those 2.

From what I know about Limone, they government let him off because they charged him with a murder they know he didn't do. Instead he got five years probation. He's still active, but I don't think I can fully take the reins until his probation is up which isn't for another 2 years. The Feds will stick his ass back in jail if they catch him doing illicite activities.

I did so because Detroit has a full administration. Buffalo was a bit much, but New England has to be very weak. Doesn't Detroit have around 50 made guys?

No chance Detroit has 50 made guys. Ivy league believes there's 9 he listed them somewhere on the forum . I don't think Buffalos active at all any more.

You can throw a lot of speculation on Buffalo. However I've read all sorts of things on Detroit ranging from the smallest family to one of the strongest. I'm assuming Ivy is the go to guy on here?

no way theres nine. probably 20 to 35

Agreed

If anything the feds would want to bust Limone after having to give him 25 mil, and are you saying the colombos have a 4 in terms of power and tye outfit gets a 7?

If anything the feds would want to bust Limone after having to give him 25 mil, and are you saying the colombos have a 4 in terms of power and tye outfit gets a 7?

I based the ratings on how hard law enforcement has hit them. Chicago while not as large as New York, still has DiFronzo, Andriacchi, D'Amico, Fratto, and whole host of others still out on the street. The Colombos are hit year after year with indictments. They aren't down, but in terms of structure and stability the Outfit is way beyond the Colombo Family.

does anyone else think family secrets didnt hurt chicago as much as they made it sound? Because i heard Lombardo was semi retired, calabrese was a soldier, and i dont think the others were even made. The biggest hit to them was defiantely marcello

I agree with you. I fact, I am would be surprised if I met somebody who thought the opposite. I don't have first hand knowledge, but from what I read, it seems to me the only case in which the Outfit came close to a real blow was when Ricca and the other leaders got 10 years in the 40s. But unfortunately everybody got out in 3,5 years, so it's as if nothing happened.
By the way, wasn't Calabrese a capo?

i think he was just soldier but he probably had more power than the average soldier

and frank caruso is the south side capo

Chicago was not seriously hurt by Family Secrets. I heard Marcello was a front while Lombardo, DiFronzo and others held the real power. They have plenty of manpower on the streets and leadership is complete at the top. That's why I ranked them ahead of the Colombo Family. They have stability.

I agree

Ok i hear ya. Thats 49s case is one i wold like to research in my free time, its my understand they basically extorted almost every movie threat ij the country throuh the unions in california and the ability to blow up a threat in any city in the country threw tue "mafia" networks. That the way Nittis mobsters episode makes it out to be atleast lol.

Ok i hear ya. Thats 49s case is one i wold like to research in my free time, its my understand they basically extorted almost every movie threat ij the country throuh the unions in california and the ability to blow up a threat in any city in the country threw tue "mafia" networks. That the way Nittis mobsters episode makes it out to be atleast lol.

*40s and im sorry yall i wish it wouls stop posting twice also

Chicago is like the Genovese Family, they've been good at avoiding law enforcement. Everyone gets nailed at some point, but the more low key you are the longer you last.

Sarno is a big loss

There is a good article about sarno and his partner i see if i can find

here is the article on sarno and his partner i think you were talking about

http://www.fivefamiliesnyc.com/2011/03/new-fbi-document-details-rise-of-mutt.html

anyone know current status of Salvatore Cataudella

Sarno and Cataudella

Check his facebook..

^^^ lol According to some guys on RD, mafioso don't have facebook accounts. I laugh and I laugh....

What would they need Facebook for anyway?

Keep in touch, communicate, etc. Feds are all over their accounts, AND their families accounts, though, so it's not very safe.

They went to high school, some to college, have friends and family who are all over. Its not business related purely social, just like you or me.

Seems pretty stupid to communicate and talk business over facebook. Especially if the Feds are on them

As montague said...it's social, not business. But they're there and for fact, the feds watch. They look at who their friends are, they look at pics that are posted, all of it.

Hm interesting. Amazing to see that technology has touched all apsects of American life. Even wiseguys

Thats it thank dap you the man and hey nicky check out daps site, alot of info on there to.

A couple years ago, there was a mafia boss in Sicily arrested while playing Godfather 2 on xbox. Guys on here were all making fun of him, but not only he enjoyed the game, but he was actually talking with his family via xbox live.

That's too funny.

Thats why i hate when people ask those damn whats brandof cigs or cigars do wiseguys smoke, what do wiseguys wear, where do wiseguys eat, how much csh does a wiseguy carry on him, what a wise guys favorite gun, and omg whats gottis gd shoe size. Lucky wore a suit everyday im sue but so did every other tom dick an harry waking the street in 1930. THEY ARE PEOPLE PLAIN AND SIMPLE!

^^^^ there ya go.

Thats why i hate when people ask those damn whats brandof cigs or cigars do wiseguys smoke, what do wiseguys wear, where do wiseguys eat, how much csh does a wiseguy carry on him, what a wise guys favorite gun, and omg whats gottis gd shoe size. Lucky wore a suit everyday im sue but so did every other tom dick an harry waking the street in 1930. THEY ARE PEOPLE PLAIN AND SIMPLE!

^^^ If you don't stop double posting, I'm gonna rip your heart out.

I don't give a damn about that stuff lol. I like to talk more about whos on the street, the inner workings, whos powerful and whos not etc. Obviously topics that have been beat to death but it's still interesting to discuss nevertheless

I was being sarcastic we need a smiley sarcastic face. Social Networking helps law enforcement solve crimes a lot quicker

I know you were. I know you by now. I was just adding my 2 cents to it anyway.

all youse on here know im 100 percent boston born and raised now the partraica isnt the strongest or biggest and yea deluca rossetti ratted chilles lato bonagflia monacchio from prov ri all locked dinunzio's bufalino angelsco all locked up in boston right but they still active at least 50 at least thats a fact at least 50 they still got the politicions unions involved in fortune 500 scams and all the regular bread n butter of things gambling loan sharks extortion stip clubs etc so they took a huge blow big one but they took bigger and everyone coming home in less than 8 years anglesco the cheese dinunzio and limone is home or free in 3 years and less all three thats boss underboss and wild billy violent soldier and good earner the r.i. crew be home in 4 years or less cause they all got time served soo thats a family with a small dent in the hood and most of the old timers are all active and low key real low key

i dont know the numbers on detroit but i know there a real tight strong family hard to penetrate and very violent the numbers might be small but they are very strong and secretive they had a piece in every casine in vegas and not be mentioned or indicted of my knowlwdge and will be double checking in a second but yea detroit in my opinion is the best family they dont get indicted caught in family sweeps and not to many rats in famiy history and the ones that did was low level gangsters very very impressive for a mob family and did yall know they help export and extort domonoes papa ginos and pizza hut all from the detroit area as well as kellogs and post talking about runnig fortune 500

I think you're mixing secrecy up with barely any members or activity .

At least 50 made members on the street active? I dont believe it. Please list at least 35 made guys that are active and out on the street for the Patriarca's.

What kind of fortune 500 scams? You mean stuff like pump and dump?

^^^ the last estimates that i heard of made guys on the street were 8 in providence and maybe 20 in the north end.

Yep sounds about what we have mapped out on here before, and its not even 100% sure that some of those guys are even active anymore.

It's why I listed the Patriarca Family so low in the first place. They barely have anyone on the street (around 30), let alone a boss. I ranked Detroit higher because they have a stable structure, guys on the street, and they're hard to infiltrate.
I don't think Detroit is as 'active' as the Patriarca Family, but they're certainly stronger and making more money.

They got members and numbers not like we e
Would see on big city cause detroit is big bit its like 40 _60 thats last made rat corrado whose family is pure through the history of the detroit and be became an embarrasment to the family said when he snitched on jack tocco said the family is strong and tight amd proposes membership every ten years for that family how many who knows but their being made

So are you agreeing with me in saying that Detroit is strong? I didn't quite get the idea of your comment

Anguilo was running scams with bernie mardoff the ponzi scheme dude eas runnin all types kf scams in the 80.
.s and while anguilo was canned matty guiglemti was doing big time scams with iluin the construction over seeing eastern atlantic was huge with all types of million dollars contracts unttil the feds made a fake company looking to start a multi million dolar project big cheese and the big dig the big dig was more than 5o billio. Thats one project and the cheese was caight at six never mind how much they made before amd on other material like the ceilings that keep falling and breaking that material is made for warm weather like arizona an inspector said how much you think they made one that..one independent guy hade to pay 2000 extra just to work one the big dig and how long u think he stayed ?? Never mind the strip clubs the unions at one one time no movie was made without using local 25 equipment how much u think they made ???

Unless the Patriarca's do some serious regrouping they'll be down for awhile. I'll never say never with the mob, but in recent years they went from being one of the strongest LCN families to one of the weakest.

In 5 years wstch bostob be at the helm

Unless the Feds kick them while they're down. I thought Providence was stronger than Boston

Detroit is not stronger or making more money than NE there's basically no activity or active guys there . . Please dont give me that Detroit are just that good at secrecy crap because it's not the way it works nowadays .

Pat is within the relm of NE, there is more money to be made than theree is in Detroit by far.(unless obama is gonna send then some)

I didnt say detroit make more than the partraica but they do get the fair share and running you have to rmember camarel half of detroit gangsters for years now are sons and nephews through marriage or plane setting the marriage through mab affialation and long time members thats why there so tight and secretive and the other reasons are most of them are college grads with degrees and business legit businesses that covers up the gambling extortion union you know and if you didnt with all those fortune 500 and smart viscious wiseguys they stick to traditional ways of living omerta gamblin extorting union busting prostition .... See what happened to hoffa and you wonder why there so low key

Joeshmo u right in a sense its not that prov faction is more powerful but there smaller and more old school with politcal ties that are strong not easily exposed compared to boston and boston is wider more assocaites and wannabes theres revere east boston north end and couple other plaxes in amd right outside the city opposse to rhode island the one city state they call it and prov at one time was hard to inflatrate that to the late great ray sr. and being boston guy rich in historyamd alot of pure gangsters to the core 80%..but anguilo set a trend of accepting lack of respect amd discpling not through traditiobal mob ways but ways that start a trend of those outside the family with little or no ties do whatever to shockwave the administration and it took years to change that in boston where now respect is a must to even be in the same breathing room as family members or close assocaites of the familia

I was responding to joeschmo not you that's why i quoted him. The reason you don't here much about them is not because of they're amazing secrecy that somehow they can only achieve .It's actually because there's barely any activity .

Yeah, you barely hear anything about the Partnership. Which is strange, because I thought they had the name of being pretty brutal compared to some other families.

None of us can really know. But unless the Feds indict them again, I'd say that Detroit is viable, but not as active as the Northeast or Chicago. We all have beat Detroit to death so I'll end it with this: you can only speculate.

thats the problem with these kinds of threads, nobody really knows for sure. as far as detroit is concerned, i really don't know much about them so i tend to take the word of scott d as he has researched them more than anyone else on here. scott, if you read this maybe you should start a thread "detroit family: myths, facts and realities" that goes into detail about detroit from how many made men, current operations/territory ect as its just one of those families where everything is unclear. it seems like there is always endless speculation on the midwest families like detroit, chicago and even to a lesser extent KC.

What's your personal take on it?

as far as detroit goes, as i said i'm not very familiar with them. my hypothesis would be that they are a small tight-knit family that is active but not even on the level of say philly or new england. sometimes on here i think secrecy gets confused with powerful. if a family is into many different rackets and make tons of money, that means exposure. are some families better at keeping things under the radar? yeah, but only to an extent.

im not in any way comparing detroit to the genovese family but everyone always talks about the secretive nature of that family, and that is true as compared to the other ny families to an extent but the fact remains there are a constant stream of cases involving them. my point being, that while you can certainly operate in a low key way, if you are involved in massive amounts of criminal activity there will be cases made against you. now i'm not saying the feds know everything, but the amount of cases brought against a family is generally a good barometer of the amount of activity that they are involved in.

again this is mostly speculation on my part so hopefully scott can help shed some light on detoit.

very insightful thank you

That's exactly what i believe i think thhey're not as large or active as Chicago,Ne,Philly maybe even Nj.

I can see Detroit fading away along with Buffalo (if they haven't already). Chicago's been in decline since the eighties.
But I can't forsee at any point in the future the FBI getting rid of the five families. They're too solidly entrenched in New York. I could see NJ, New England and Philly all fizzling out.
But you don't get rid of a Family like the Genovese's in a decade or even fifty years. Even the Colombo's will be difficult to eradicate.

Chicago is not even close to being done. They'll last longer than the the Colombos which wouldn't happen for a looooonnngggg time

Never said they were close. But they're not as strong as New York. They are more structured, disciplined, and successful than let's say the Colombo's, but in terms of numbers they don't match any of the NYC Families.

IMHO, the Patriarca's have more members and activity than Detroit. I dont want to get into another countless debate about it (use the search function and see old threads). I dont think there is much OC activity going on in Detroit. I think Philly is much more active.

no doubt that the Gambinos and Genovese are more powerful but i'd compare chicago to the other 3

Imo they're below the NY families and equal with Philly and NE. It seems that's the FBIs stance on it also.

No way their equal with philly and ne with all the indicments recently. Equal to Luchesse

maybe a little less than luchesse but comparable

Lucchese's are much stronger than the Outfit. They pass the Bonanno's and Colombo's in terms of organization at the top, but they don't have the numbers they used to.
Chicago isn't on its way out by any means. I'd rank them the most powerful Family outside of New York. But they're not as powerful as the Lucchese Family.

seems like some people underestimate them. Your opinion but i'd compare them to Bonnano/Luchesse

If you're going to make bold statements like that please provide some statistics to back up your argument.

Well there is a chart proving everyones 28 made men theory wrong

Made by a random guy on the internet no thanks i think i'll trust the FBI the organization that's job is to investigate them i agree they're not on their way out but they're a mid level family with max 50 made men and low to moderate activity .

No it's you and many others on this site alot of the time from Chicago overestimating them.

In terms of activity I agree with Camarel it's moderate, which is why they have so many people on the street in the first place. But it's possible they have more than 28 guys. That article was in 2007, they could've made a dozen or more since then.

That's why i said max 50 and if that's the case they're still nowhere near the Colombos never mind the Lucchesses who are both estimated at 100 or more made men

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWdd6_ZxX8c

lets agree to disagree

Two things-1-Boston is more powerful than Rhode Island (hands down), and that being said 2- It doesn't matter if Boston is stronger because the family is a mess. Members (and it's more like 20 active on the street) do not work together much, there are serious players for sure, but as far as a FAMILY-no. There are no fortune 500 schemes..Carmen got popped trying to sell bad loom as soon as he poked his head out, Tony did not respect the Feds enough, the two most powerful capos (one from Boston , one from Rhode Island) turned informant, Peter is not trying to go back to the can at his age, and any young guy making money is selling drugs. Anyone who is treating the Patriacas like an NY family is off the rocker.

I did a chart on Detroit a while ago for a Roleplaying game in the city in 2009. They were around the high 20s to the mid 30s so I'd say this is more accurate. No way there's just 9 guys

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrjwaqZfjIY

It's not my opinion it's FBI estimates

Im a born n raised boston guy with a good insight if you underestimating the providence faction of the family your on the rocker beaides the old man and a couple of hitmen no one knew any one in rhode island besides the guys in rhode island there strong politically connected all the way down to the supreme court judges fortune 500 companys controlling the unions nationwide thats a fortune itself and 20 active guys theres like 20 socail clubs in the boston
area alone never mind active made guys :marconi, gemeni, the soccer club north end, bunker club, the old men club just to name a few off the top of my head never mind prov and u know made guys have to run those clubs and if you think its drug thats the main thing u got to be crazy for old dope head like rossetti ok but u think buffalino agrees with that? And angelsco killed the owner over drug money huh,? No its for making sure hes an example for those who think they can disrespect a made guy when its to collect and hes get clipped n they own the squire and u tell me in a year that strip club wont make a million cash and you think its the drugs lmaol remember they caught anglesco on wiretap making collections from gambling extortion and numbers gambling extortion and numbers traditional mob earnings not drugs sittite

And deluca was the second powerful gut in prov thea first guy be out in a couple years and thats pretty matty he got union political and a violent strret guy with family ties deep in mob ..HE is a matty jr.

No offence but it's really difficult to read your posts.

Billy dud not kill the owner of the squire...the man he allegedly killed was a manager of a strip club in providence where Billy had been-he felt-disrespected. That beef was personal. Mr Russo I am afraid you are nostalgic and quite possibly naive.....it's not the 60's or even the 80's....and yes it is drugs that fuels the fire. And more it less it always has been. I mean no disrespect but you are as they say looking through tinted glasses.

Joe, I wouldnt class a Crime Family 4. Look at it's history, Genovese and Gambino arent heard of except of them getting arrested.

Patriarca's are in shambles. They aren't at the ropes yet, but they need to keep it seriously low for awhile.

There not in shambles and the devito dude he clipped was the owner the other dide he clipped was personal beef thats y the squillante dude got hit....the patraoca are allright theu have a new administration everyone got light sentences limone be.pff house arrest soon they exposed the rats and on five ten years with some new solid members replaced the aging ones the family will be tight ...the cheese anglesco pretty matty limone be all active thats boss underboss and long time capo with history and credentials so they look ok u ask me Im not looking through glass or tints whatever u saying im still smoking a cigar and playing the cards dealt not fold when I see the catds thats all

What are you talking about ? How have they not been heard of other than when they've been arrested ?

Camarel don't try to reason with this guy he never makes any sense.

What made guys hve facebook? Post em!