Is Italian-American Mafia still number 1 in U.S.?

If you ask me, The Mafia might still be a powerful force in America although other crime groups like the Mexican drug cartels are increasingly becoming involved all around the USA. But how powerful is the Italian Mafia in America in comparison to other crime groups such as the Triads, Drug cartels and the so called Russian Mafia, however they operate...

Here's a link that got me wondering...

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704115404576096392318489246.html

Yes they are still number 1!

Short answer: Yes.
Longer answer: Only in the Northeast and Chicago. While drug cartels are bigger than most families, they really only focus on one area and they are so unstable. One group is always getting arrested or killed off and replaced with another, so I don't think they qualify as organized crime. At least not the groups in America. The Kingpins in Mexico and other Latin American countries are first class all the way.

True,they are in their former shadow.That so called golden age gone long time ago and it's not coming back.They are going to be number 1 for long time,but around 2040-2050 only NY familes going to be around.

yes, but as others have suggested there are so many variables involved. in new york i would say without a doubt. chicago is different reason being they only have one family and an insane level of gang activity. i dont wanna turn this into another street gang vs mafia arguement but the fact remains that the gangster disciples, vice lords, and latin kings are super gangs with off the top of my head 25,000-30,000+ members each. now a good point was made earlier about the violence associated with street gangs making them unstable and the fact that these groups dont have the heirarchy of mafia groups but the fact remains that these groups are huge and by virtue of thier size are able to weather the many inditments thrown at them. another point about these three gangs is that while drugs are thier bread and butter, these groups have become far more diversified branching out into such ventures such as organized burglary rings, both street level and high class prostitution, as well as shakedowns on a smaller scale.

But none of these gangs are really affiliated with each other aside from their name. Like Mafia families today, they are independent of each other. So going by total numbers is misleading. I like comparing individual families to individual gangs. I don't think you'll find any gangs with over 250 members (Genovese) and definitely not over 1,500 (including associates). Same with the rest of the Five Families (who all have at least 1,000 members/associates). You may find some gangs comparable to the other families that are still active whose men probably range from 100-200. I'm no expert at gang statistics, but that seems like too high a number for a modern gang in America.

some good points ted about not everyone always working together but thats true in mob circles as well. here are a few profiles for the gangs i mentioned, believe it or not the numbers are insane.


gangster disciples: http://www.ngcrc.com/ngcrc/page13.htm

vice lords: http://cryptome.org/gangs/vice.pdf

latin kings: http://www.ngcrc.com/ngcrc/page15.htm

Probably the oldest question on these forums. And it will forever be debated. It really all depends on how you define "power," as well as what criteria you use. And, for the law enforcement agencies themselves, it often comes down to their investigation jurisdiction. And they tend to measure it in terms of who presents the most significant "organized crime threat." The FBI would say the LCN, and increasingly, transnational organized crime. The DEA would say the Mexican drug cartels.

In my opinion, a very strong argument can be made that the LCN is still the strongest organized crime group in the Tri-State area. And, to a lesser extent, the rest of the Northeast if you expand up to New England and down to Philadelphia.

But it would be hard to make a case for anywhere else. Outside the Northeast, the Chicago family is really the only one that is viable, unless you want to count Detroit too. But comparing the Outfit to the local street gangs in Chicago is very much like apples and oranges. It's like asking who's better between the Chicago White Sox and the Chicago Blackhawks. Completely different worlds.

The only other place in the country where there's still significant LCN activity is in South Florida, where the NY families have operations. But just last year, the FBI said Eurasian OC became their new #1 priority there.

This is yet another reason why I like to document actual cases, as well as keep a record of these articles. Because one can become confused reading the occasional news article, as the information is often all over the place from one to another. These journalists are not concerned with keeping a consistent report between themselves as to the current status of the Mafia, or it's relation to other OC groups. Except of the guys who are in it full time, like Capeci and Anastasia, these journalists are just beat reporters following whatever is said to them at the time. And though they've started to be more careful about rosy predictions, even government and law enforcement officials have some time overstated things.

The mafia is on shaky ground
March 2006
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2006-03-09-mafia-cover_x.htm

Italian mobsters in widespread decline
October 2007
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2007-10-25-2782988181_x.htm

Mafia feels heat from feds, crime rivals
July 2008
http://articles.cnn.com/2008-07-16/justice/fbi.mob_1_traditional-mob-joseph-massino-crime-groups?_s=PM:CRIME

GANGS OF NEW YORK
THE ETHNIC MOBS THAT ARE GIVING THE ITALIAN MAFIA A RUN FOR THEIR MONEY
May 2009
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/opinion/opedcolumnists/item_Sg70KTTLwQcQykvdx9ftrI

Structure Keeps Mafia Atop Crime Heap
January 2011
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704115404576096392318489246.html

The Latin gangs have organized a lot over past twenty years. They also are nowhere as infiltrated as Italian-American Mafia. They don't have as many turncoats either. They have the southwest, California, and now the northeast.

I would put the Asian mob, particularly the Chinese, also near top. Unlike old mafia, the only thing stopping them from growing too big is they assimilate quickly, however authorities don't have the intelligence gathered on them that they do against others.

its their structure and history that keeps them at the top. I think the mistake that the media and even some law enforcement make is that they expect these newer groups to live up to the mafia at its peak, when a lot of these groups are not interested in that and probably don't even know anything about it, its not like they are sat around watching documentaries and reading books. And the fact that law enforcement is much more advanced now that these groups can't really make moves like the mob did back in the 60s, or 70s. The mafia is still the most entrenched group.

However if someones gonna say that the mobs still number 1 because of how lethal and dangerous they are or that they can control and dominate other crime groups then thats where they are wrong. Like ivy said if you look at things case by case there have been many drug gangs and ethnic mobs that have operated in new york without any italian interference or backing. On the street level italians mostly just stick to their own neighbourhoods and areas and mostly just victimise their own. Apart from the hold they have on labour racketeering, gambling and loansharking, they really aren't that special. They have been involved with fraud and some good scams but even the street gangs engage in the same stuff now.

Thanks for the replies guys, yeah I hate it when people say "Oh if the Mafia went up against a cartel it would lose big time". That's probably gonna be true but that situation would probably never arise in the first place, because the two groups have different interests. I'd say the Mafia's structure is really a genius move by it's creators because there's always space to fill the void if something goes down. Not to mention, that with it's many associates it can find ways of getting involved in all sorts of crimes and make money still.

Another thing that boggled my mind, I saw an article last year that the FBI said that mob earned roughly 20-90 billion or something like that....How much do you think the current mob earns??

Taking about cartles,they have much more man power and they are much more violent than Mafia and others.But it's not always about quantity it's about quality

Exactly.

I think that was just a gross exaggeration by the FBI. Under Gotti's reign, the Gambinos were estimate to be making $500 million a year. And that was over 20 years ago from the the highest or 2nd highest earning fanily. Even if you take that number today and multiply it by 10 (5 families, Philly, NJ, Chicago, Detroit, New England), that's $5 billion. And we all know no family is making as much money as in the 1980s.

That's what they do, Ted. The gambling numbers that the Feds throw out always make me laugh the most. They listen to their wiretaps and count every bet as if it's not offset by another bet. In other words, if the Mets are playing the Yankees, and each team takes in $1000 worth of bets, the Feds count it as a $2000 bet, which is ridiculous. But inflated numbers make bigger headlines. And lets face it, most agents are from fucking Idaho or some such place. They have no idea what they're listening to anyway .

So how much does the Mafia these days earn? In Italy all the four Mafia groups earn over 140 Billion dollars annually which is a heck of an amount of money, not to mention the money they make in previous years. However isn't the Mafia in Italy like, so much more powerful than the one now in America.

So yeah, how much would the Italian-American mafia be estimated to make annually?

Trying to crunch the numbers, as far as estimating organized crime profits, is the most futile of endeavors. Even the official figures are all over the place and are educated guesses at best.

You can get glimpses here and there, like how much a specific bookmaking operation was taking in bets over a certain period of time, or how much a mobbed up construction company had in contracts last year, but figuring the over all gross or net take of an entire family? Much less the Mafia as a whole? Impossible.

You'll drive yourself nuts trying. Believe me.

Genovese family.. number 1 crime syndicate in America according to law enforcement.

With all the drugs coming in from Mexico and South America, they have had to become number 1 by now. They cover way more of the country than traditional Mafia does.

My guess is the Italian-American Mafia will still be at the top for a long time to come. But they won't have the complete monopoly position anymore : the Albanian mob is spreading, the Sovjet Jews are still strong, the Irish are still active, Mexican drug cartels are increasingly becoming widespread, Triads are very active, African-American/Dominican/Salvadoran/Vietnamese/Cambodian/Puerto Rican/Hmong/Haitian/Filipino/Native/Somali and Armenian gangs are becoming bigger and more organized, the Israelis and even the Yakuza ( under the Yoshitomi Group) are setting up base in the West Coast,...and let's not forget the Outlaw Motorcycle Gangs or the White Supremacy gangs who some would deem as just a bunch of moonshining rednecks, but in reality they're just as organized and just as dangerous as their 'ethnic' counterparts.
So in short, the power of the Italian mafia will still be very high in the East Coast and (maybe) some parts of the Midwest, but they have been receiving a lot of competition lately.

I occasionally fire off a good one, Ivan. You know, for a guy with a stick up his ass .

[quote=Antonio]If you ask me, The Mafia might still be a powerful force in America although other crime groups like the Mexican drug cartels are increasingly becoming involved all around the USA. But how powerful is the Italian Mafia in America in comparison to other crime groups such as the Triads, Drug cartels and the so called Russian Mafia, however they operate...

the russian mafia is nothing but media hype there not as organized as the italians there more like crews then mob familys. The mexican drug cartels are no where near the influence of the italian mob they don't control unions and large scale white collar crimes, they control drugs and human smuggling territorys there powerful in mexico but in the states there not as prevalent although that is changing quickly. The reason the mafia was so powerful was because at the time (1931-late 1970's) law enforcement wasn't nearly as advance as today. J edgar hoover denied the mafia existed and wouldn't even pursue them. If you read joe bonnanos book bound by honer he says they had a picture of j edgar hoover dressed as a woman at a brothel. The prohibition financed the loansharking and illegal gambling along with a bunch of other enterprises. The mafia couldn't have come at a better time. The russians the triads and the cartels couldn't repeat what the italians did in a million years. The LCN is weaker but its never going to die. If you look at the LCN as a whole yes it is still number one in america because other crime groups that started off in the late to early 19th cent. Died a long time ago but the mafia is still alive its just on life support. The fact that a criminal organization has managed to survive decades is unbelievable. in terms of power no they are not on top at this point no one is the mafia at a point in time had a monopoly no group really has a monopoly maybe on a neigborhood but not in an entire city there's always competition.

those organizations might be bigger but groups like the triads and the yakuza are very traditional and they don't have as much influence as street gangs do on the west coast. Biker gangs are powerful but they deal with a certain group of people up in ncy biker gangs aren't competiton for the mob the mob is all about money the biker gangs are about bikes and money. Plus the mobs biggest money makers are illegal gambling loansharking and labor racketeering alot of the groups you mentioned have little to no part in these activities. other crime groups usually get along with the mob because of the mafias reputation and the mafia is intelligent as a whole. In reality the primary goal of the mafia is to make money and they still are able to do that with biker gangs and triads

Yeah it's true. Most other ethnic gangs, street gangs, prison gangs and outlaw motorcycle gangs make money off mainly the drug trade, weapon trade and extortion. The mafia doesn't really need to participate in the trafficking of drugs to make a lot of money.
It's also true that the American Mafia is smart, since they've been low-key for the past years, while other gangs and even Italy-based criminal organizations like Ndrangheta or Camorra seem much more aggressive.

ndrangheta and camorra has only little presence in the states and they are not aggressive there
i dont think other groups make money with extortions nobody is in position to do it on large scale in the states even
but i think lcn is the most involved in extortion rackets

The mexican cartels have no interest in gaining power or being powerful in The US.Their deal is take the drugs across the border and sell them to anyone who will pay them

The Mexican cartels in general tend to avoid heat directly from the United States government and them establishing themselves here in the U.S would get them more heat because of the exposure retail drug sales tend to give off. In many a lot of the fighting between the groups (Mexican TCO) are primarly for retail drug sales and the profits that come with the territory. If the cartels abandoned retail drug sales in the Mexico much of hte violence you see today will stop. Well at least among the TCOs but they won't because retail drug sales in Mexico is worth around 1 billion dollars. As the cartels started to sell drugs on the streets, their membersip exploded and they are now much more numerous than before.