the world of crime, still fears the Mafia?

I mean the street gangs, not only in New York, in New Jersey or Philadelphia, but also the family as the Chicago Outfit, or the Patriarca who have less than 100 made made, or even worse in Pittsburgh or Cleveland, are or even feared by the street gangs, especially blacks and Latinos or bikers do not respect them more.


Pure white virgin, take off my fear
transform me into a winner, hide me from the police
the streets are full of your glory, prays man
in the name of the line, the cd and the card
amen
it's cocaine
(CLUB DOGO - COCAINA FT. NOYZ NARCOS)

I dont see any significance in the mafia in this day and age. The world of crime is a lot bigger than just them now.

I don't think your average gangbanger has any fear whatsoever of the American Mafia today. Especially in the prison system, where more and more wiseguys are turning to gangs for paid protection. And that little fact alone speaks volumes.

We will never have the type of feared mafia crews like Murder Inc or the demeo crew ever again in america. The FBI caught up with them

the gang bangin thugs with there pants hanging off there ass with no respect are the feared ones now because the pull the trigger for no reason, bunch of animals if you ask me

I don't think there is fear of the mafia by gangbangers but the mob including the genovese,lucchese and other families have worked with gangs so I think there is a type of mutual respect between criminals. Plus i don't think the mob fears the gangs either unless their in prison the gangs are not in the mobs hangouts and restruants or upper class neighborhoods and the mob ins't in the ghettos or their nieghborhoods and the gangs sell drugs and the mob hasn't had any significant big drug trafficking stuff since the 70s and the gangs aren't into gambling and loansharking or labor racketeering so there ins't a huge competetion between the 2 crimninal cultures, so I don't think there is alot fear by either of them and even though there are cases where mob members have paid gangs for protection the mob and gangs aren't really criminal competitors or rival gangs so the whole idea of mob guys being extorted in prison doesn't happen that often and there are alot of mob guys in prisons and they group together too and try to get stuff smuggled in for them so there not top dogs in prisons but there not being extorted all the time or treated like snitches or pedophiles

Street gangs are just bunch of low-level criminals nothing but animals with guns.

If you read the wiretap transcripts of the case in NJ, where some Lucchese guys were working with a bloods leader, the blood leader was kind of in awe of the family and said how he "loved you guys" about the mafia, I think street gangs, especially high ranking guys respect the mob and its history and try to emulate them sometimes.

The nj case is an interesting one. I think there is a general respect for the mafia as far as their history and also how they have been immortalised in films but i doubt it extends onto the street in any wide spread way. If you remember from the wiretap they asked for the blood leaders help in stopping an associate from getting extorted by another blood. The mobsters still have respect for being apart of what they are a part, its like a brand name everyone recognises.

Well, rappers certainly do.

Gang bangers have the same mythic image of the Mafia that the public in general does. But it's sort of a bogus question because, in most cases, there's not even any contact between mafiosi and gang bangers. Completely different circles. Which is why the "partnership" between the Luccheses and the Bloods in Jersey got so much press. Of course, it wasn't really a partnership so much as one Lucchese guy working with one Blood guy to a limited extent.

And for all that's been said about mobsters looking to gangs for protection in prison, I can't think of many. The Lucchese thing started with Joe Perna reaching out to Spears to get one of his guys to back off a Lucchese associate inside. Joey Merlino reportedly paid a Mexican gang in Texas to watch his back. But it was a matter of him hiring them rather than them shaking him down for protection money. And there's conflicting information, to say the least, on whether Gotti was paying the AB or not.

Sometimes a single case will start a general assumption. For example, it's been said the Chicago Outfit, while not getting deeply involved in narcotics itself, does bankroll the drug trafficking of gangs or whatever. This probably came from the isolated incident back in the 1990's of Ronnie Jarrett working with the Satan Disciple's gang in moving cocaine. That's the only example I know of over the years and it may have been part of the reason he was killed.

I think that if the Mafia still wants to envoke fear they're capable of bringing some real heavy shit down on top of the upper level gangbangers, but as far as these young muscle-heads go i think they give two shits about some old timer with respect all throughout the neighbourhood. I also think that's the same with the ethnic gangs too.

If you look at Montreal, where the mafia presence is quite large, street gangs are often used on hits and and the Mafia's close connections to biker gangs make them a strong force. LeClerc institute ( a medium security prison in Laval Quebec) was once notorious for its Biker/Mafiosi element which essentially ran the prison.
Raynald Desjardins, who has been in the news recently, famously hired a construction crew to refurbish the track and field on the prison grounds. While he was an inmate.

I can speak from experience that the Mafia is feared by so called gang bangers where I live. Pasquale Musitano would have everyone kissing his ass every time he came to the club especially HA and black gangsters. I know things are different in the USA and we don't have true Bloods or Crips but in Southern Ontario criminals of all elements still fear and respect the MAfia. I think all criminal elements still fear the mafia in Italy too. There are far fewer mafia rats in Europe and even Canada than in the USA.

Well sure, Muss. I was certainly speaking of the American Mafia.

I don't pretend to know much firsthand about the Canadian Mafia. But if I had to venture a guess, I'd say that---in terms of how they're feared and respected in their respective surroundings---the Canadian Mafia is probably where the American Mafia was thirty years ago.

To me, the biggest change in the New York City area is that the wiseguys today are absolutely less feared than they were back in the '70s, '80s, and even the '90s. More and more average "citizens" aren't afraid to call the law today. Now I'm not saying that it's necessarily a healthy choice, but you do see it today where you didn't see it twenty years ago.

For whatever reason the Mafia in Canada relates more to the Mafia in Italy than the Mafia in the USA. I read somewhere that the Mafia in Canada see themselves as being Italians first and Canadians second, whereas in the USA, they view themselves as Americans first and Italians second. What do you think?

I don't think Italian Americans in the us view themselves as American Italians
. I'm just speaking for me and my family and all the Italians I know .

So when traveling abroad you would say you were "Italian" not American?

its a question of numbers the states are too wide and the mafia today has little men to run that country as a whole most of places know the mafia only through movies except new york and a few others
for example a crime family with 50 made members in a little city would be feared by every criminal elements, but in big city of 3 millions of people the percetpion of local people and other would be far less
canada is far smaller and there are several mafia members thats coz is different there
in italy the mafia is feared by everyone, all outside crimnals and all citizens since its everywhere even outside its strongholds in the south and its run everythings included all the prisons across the country

They also have grudges between Sicilians and Calabrians up there. Here it's only vocal and not violent

one thing the minority street gangs will never get right is the value of owning a business. all the Italians have businesses, usually cash, like pizza or pastries.

the minority gangs should own every one of those fried chicken joints in their neighborhoods.

i guess one advantage the Italians have is that they actually come from traditional families, which encourages them to enter legit business ventures, while the minorities live a completely different lifestyle and have a totally different upbringing.

I have to respectfully disagree. I live in the greater Toronto Area with a population of 6+ million. While not the size of NYC it is not exactly small so I do not think population is the only factor.

I also have to add that the supposed "lack of fear' people and other criminals have of the mafia is overblown. Human Nature does not change in 20-30 years. I think people in general trust the government more and the government has programs like witness protection which was not around years ago which makes people feel more comfortable approaching police if they are ever in a situation involving the mafia. 9 out of 10 people would be terrified if they were approached by a made guy, and even street gang member would have a raised heart rate and be a little more cautious if they found out there last robbery victim was the son of a high ranking mobster. Like I said human nature doesn't change in 30 years.

This has to be due in some part to the fact that the mafia in Canada was put together by Joe Bonanno. People can say what they want about him but Joe was feared and respected every place he went until the 1960s in New York.

The lcn could still dish out some punishment if they need to but i doubt they would want to get into any real long drawn out conflict or war with a large street gang like the bloods or latin kings because they really wouldnt come out of it as a victorious force whether they win or lose. With the street gangs their always at war with someone or another anyway so it wont make much of a difference to them anyway. Also their feuds never go away they just cool down and then escalate again. Theirs also the fact that mob guys have alot more to protect than just drug turf. They got asociates and criminals that work under their protection(not all of them are soldiers or combatants), they have businesses illegal or otherwise they have to operate. And also their families, i doubt they like the idea of some 16 year old homeboy spoting them at a mcdonalds when they are with their grandkids.Then you got members and associates that are in federal lockup and prison who are going to have problems aswell. Although this will be bad for the street gangs aswell its gonna be just as bad if not more the wiseguys.

Mussolini no I wouldn't say I'm Italian when traveling abroad. I didn't know that what your response was talking about because you never mentioned that. I guess your missing the point. A lot of Italian Americans like I said all the ones I know consider themselves Italian . Because we are Italian and come from
Italy ...

I don't think I'm missing the point as I never said regular families, I specifically said "mafia" so unless you are in a mafia family this wouldn't apply to you.I don't mean they literally say they are Italian more so than American/Canadian when asked specifically what their background or ancestry is. I certainly refer to myself as Canadian when I travel abroad but when asked what my "background is" I would say Italian as I'm sure anyone else would.

minority gangs will never be getting legit businesses because they are structured in a way that gives no support for older, veteran members.

Whereas a wiseguy who is 60 and has been a gangster 40 years can have the money and influence to venture into legit stuff, the 17 year old gangbanger can't. And by the time those guy get older they are all either dead, serving life in prison, or leave the gang life.
Gangs centered purely around drug dealing aren't good for keeping older members. They should branch out their activities and set up a vertical leadership structure like LCN.

the numbers are important, nyc is huge but the mafia members are high too thats coz the perception of the mafia is sure higher than other cities
most of normali citizens and gang members knows mafia only through movies only when they are in proximity they start fearing it very much, gang members who have links with mafia sure are happy to not be in contrast with them
fighting the mafia is not like fighting another street gangs they are not accostumed to the mafia-style i bet

Mussolini you win , let's just say the mob Around here, yeah do call themselves Italians first .

Actually street gangs are pretty varied and complex. Alot of the big ones have structures and ranks and also gang leaders and even members vary in ages from mid twenties to their 40s and they engage in a diverse array of activity from drug dealing, robbery,extortion, fraud, cyber crime,prostitution, contract murder and money laundering.As far as legitimate business goes a number of gang members have been known to open up businesses and in chicago they have been reported to have gotten involved with the construction industry. They also have been known to get involved with music production aswell. Alot of these businesses are used to launder money and also as fronts for other illegal activity such as drug dealing.I think people tend simplify gangs into just kids who hang out on a corner sling bags of dope even though that is part of it.

the mafia though a very organised group of career criminals isnt invincible, they cant just wipe people out , the fact they no longer control the drug trade in their own stronghold in new york is proof of that because if they could they would.

street gangs are very limited activities compared to mafia, they usually run a couple of neighbourhoods at most ina single city, mafia is usually more widespread
lets say if a enterely black or latino neighbourhoods run by a specific gang disappear or change etnnichity that gang will disappear the mafia go on to exists even all the changes in 100 years

Not a contest my friend, we are both after the same thing and that is the truth. Sorry I was not more clear in my first post and I appreciate your input.

I don't think they have ever controlled the entire drug trade in NYC and comparing street gangs organization to the mafia is ridiculous. Can you provide a source for these street gangs getting involved in the construction trade?

Mussolini
The mafia once controlled the entire heroin supply in the northeast up until the late 70s. My point was if they were as capable and powerful as some people still seem to think they are surely that would still be the case. Also i dont think its that ridiculous to compare street gangs to the mafia, they are both crime groups with rules,rank and intitation, they are just different ethnicities and ages. The construction thing ive read in a few articles i posted up before. Ive posted up alot of stuff on street gangs on this forum so i dont really want to keep putting up the same links everytime street gangs are brought up on a new thread, but heres one of the articles where its mentioned. http://www.chicagomag.com/Chicago-Magazine/January-2012/Gangs-and-Politicians-An-Unholy-Alliance/

street gangs have not ranks and initiation cerimonies, they are loosely organized compared to mafia and other form of organized crime

no problem my forgiveness for the mis-understanding

Obviously even in it's heyday, the mob couldn't control the drug trade in New York from top to bottom. And, even today, it's still a major player in the NY drug trade. But what benefits the mob, even more than if they controlled all the narcotics, is their diversification.

NOthing wrong with comparing them as criminal groups but to assume street gangs are as diversified as the mafia when it comes to things like construction and extortion is ridiculous and one article or even a handful vs documented records of decades of controlling labor unions,cement, windows ect is like comparing a local drug dealer with a grow op to the Mexican Cartels.

This. The only difference between the mafia and street gangs is that street gangs wear their wife beater under shirts in the open.

i never said that they were involved with labour unions, my point was that the idea that they do not get involved with legitimate business is not really all that true.

true, true

I'm thinking about putting that in my signature

You're joking right? Or do you really believe when it comes to organization and structure the only difference is the wife beaters?

Hey! the wife beater is an important accessory to a gangster.

Italian Gangsters love wife beaters too! havent you seen "A Bronx Tale"? lol

Hi, i'd really like to read those (wiretap transcripts).
Can someone point me in the right direction of where to get the transcripts. Or the whole trial protocol.

Would really appreciate it.

Thanks!

Here you go. Ivy posted the original warrant affidavit a while back. Those typed out wiretap transcripts are an interesting read.

http://www.gangsterbb.net/threads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=642049#Post642049

Hahahahahaha, I had to joke.