Your Most Fascinating Mob Times and Why?

Ok here are mine. I have two, the period where Scarfo reigned in Philly. Like a movie or something, murders all over the place, colourful characters, and the most lucrative time arguably for the family. How they haven't made a movie on this yet is unbelievable.
My other is the Gambino family in the 1980s. For half the decade you had the old school, traditional running of the family in Castellano and the other half the yuppie "look at me" approach of Gotti. Fascinating characters also, the DeMeo crew, the white and blue collar factions and a split in the family, culminating in the hit on Castellano which was like a scene from a movie.
So what are yours and why?

The Castellano era of the Gambino - specifically the Demeo crew.
Roy Demeo and his men have always intrigued me, such a dangerous bunch!

I have to say that to me, the NY five Families and the 1930 to 1990 era is the most exciting.

I have a different one every week. Right now I'm most interested in Youngstown from the late 1950s, when all the mafia murders started, until 2002, with the defection of Strollo and the conviction of Traficant. Reason being is because it's close to where I'm from, mainly.

My usual favorite is the Capone era though; it's the one I keep going back to after being diverted by the Scarfo era, DeMeo era, etc.

I predict that the "winners" of this thread will end up being a tie between the DeMeo and Scarfo eras, thanks to the excellent books written about them. There are probably all sorts of crazy, fascinating mob stories we don't know much about, simply because a George Anastasia or a Martin Scorsese or someone like that hasn't come along to tell those stories properly in book or movie form. The DeMeo story would be just a boring list of murders if it had been recounted by a hack author.

New York City in the '40s and '50s.

The Mob was at its height of power.

The Costello era and the Giancana era!The Costello era,he had the politics and almost everything in his hands,and the Giancana era,he got involved with the C.I.A. and big things were happening at that time.

For me it's around the time of Carlo Gambino's death, Castellano taking over and then up until his murder. In these few years you saw the rise of arguebly the Mafia's most brutal and barbaric crew, The Demeo Crew.

Also the set up of the Commission by Lucky, has there been a more important point in La Cosa Nostra history?

Prohibition to around the end of the 40's

ninties for me. colombo war, lucchese killing frenzy, gigantes acting. thats the tip of the iceberg

1890 to the start of prohibition, just because if you were a gangster in those days unless you were a sharp cat you probably didnt make a dime. Also there were so many different factions and players moving around all over the country. The fact that you can still find more and more the deeper you look into this era is what i like so much. Second for me would have to be prohibition to the 40s, those 20 years shaped the next 80 years. Im not as big on the newest eras just because i really dont consider them the same bread, ecspecailly after the start of the 70s, pic put it the best i have ever seen it said" its like the light came on in 77 and everyone said i can't get a job nobody would know im a wiseguy." Ok? I guess you would rather look cool than stay out of jail and make money.

gotta say the entire scarfo era, it was a real life movie, and i agree with nickey as i cant believe no movies have been made on that time period. also the 80's in boston with whitey running around like a madman unchecked.

Gotta be 1960's Chicago. Giancana, Accardo, Mayor Daley, the Kennedys, Marilyn Monroe, Sinatra, the whole Rat Pack era and the 1960 election agreement for Jack. Exciting and interesting!

Totally agree with you about Philly starting with the hit on Bruno. They definitely should make a movie on that!

Second would have to be the Rizzuto war currently going on because it's close to home.

I like the 1970's. It was right before the gov't finally started to pay attention to the mob and it was the times of some of the most dangerous crews like the demeo crew,the westies,and the zips

When Casso, Gotti, Orena, Massino and Chin were running amok in NY

For me I'd have to go with the early prohibition days of the 1920s. While the more modern times are interesting, I love to read about and research the earlier years.

The more recent years. Like 2000 to the present. The mob, from the 1930's through the 1990's has been covered sufficiently from any number of sources. Going back to the early part of the 20th century, and late 1800's, sort seems sort of futile beyond a certain point. From 2000 to the present is now, is happening, and is continually moving. Personally, I think it's fascinating to watch the families that still tread water, while observing the decay overall.

The Scarfo years.

Yeah, the decline is just as just as fascinating as the rise and apex. It's like the ending part of some big, weird saga.

If you wanted to use Goodfellas or Casino as an example of the real life mob, in general, we're in the third act of either film.

From 1979 until the mid-90's.

I was on Knickerbocker when Galante got whacked. But I was all the way over on Harman or Greene. Galante expired down on Jefferson and Knickbocker. But since then, I've been fascinated with the mob.

Cool you were there. my grandfather was down there working that summer he said tgat it was packed in he streets

Yeah. We were always on Knickerbocker during that time period. Betesh. Morris Toys. Boys and Mens. I miss those local businesses.

When the Galante hit happened, people ran towards that end of Knickbocker. It was amazing. But my mother would have no part of the frenzy and we just went about our business instead of gawking.

Youngstown for me. Especially the Pittsburgh involement.

Chicago 1970's to 2000's.

NYC 1940's to 1960's.

You could not have said it better Dapper - a psychopath, a narcissist, an upstart, a fat rat and a nutty genius running the 5 families. Talk about a can of mixed vegetables.

It is interesting to reflect upon the "talents" of these 5, compared to their predecessors. Only one, Chin, can be regarded as a strong leader. The rest of them bear responsibility for weakening their families.

My Most Fascinating Mob Times is happening now, in Montreal. But if I go back in time it's the 1920s and the castellammarese war, and the 1950s to 1980s. It's difficult to choose only one period, because there are so many fascinating periods/events.

Philly Mob era's 1980's and 1990's

Fits perfectly with The Godfather.

I love animals and all, but I think I would have liked to have seen Anthony Casso shoot Jimmy Hydell's dog. The look on Hydell's face had to be priceless.

That story always pissed me off. I would have preferred he just shoot Hydell himself.

He got around to that, too .

Nothing compared to the look on his face when Casso got hold of him!

You know… I gotta say I'm interested about this Generation. Think about it… the up and coming generation is about as Americanized as anyone I went to college with, save for maybe a vowel at the end of the name. Times are more paranoid than ever. This current generation of made guys, captains and bosses came up in "the generation of the rat". Now more than ever, assholes go on the internet and post about these guys… watching their every move, stalking them like celebrities… it's crazy. TV shows realistically portray them, showing off to the world actually how they operate. And while all this attention is on these guys, they still have to earn. The union shakedowns of the past are being swapped for Wall Street "Pump and Dump" scams. Street crime is getting harder to get away with (and arguably less lucrative). I'm interested to see if this (in my opinion) truly American subculture goes the way of the Cowboy, or if it alters it's shape and appearance which would surely be to the chagrin of the FBI and US Attorney's Office.

+1

It will be interesting to read about today's "Mafia history" ten years from now.

It seems like many years after the fact we hear the details of how the ins & outs of the scams pulled resulted in millions of dollars.

That's right BIG +. I thought about it many times,15-20 years from now,reading about today's mafia...

I also agree. Your position assumes that the mob is getting smarter to pull the white collar, intelligent crimes. IMO, the LCN of the future will be dominated by the more intelligent criminals, and the traditional street crime will be a smaller piece.

I think were moving more and more towards cyber OC, where its less about being a tough guy more about being smart. Today you can rob millions online instead of having to hold up a bank with guns.

To be honest, this is exactly what today's LCN is the least interesting to me. The pieces aren't there. Murders are committed, but we don't know why, and scams are as well, but we don't have details. The less you know, the less interesting, I say. Which is why my most fascinating mob times are...

60's-80's Chicago.
Frighteningly brutal, rackets everywhere, and the murder toll of the entire outfit has been compiled several times.

30's-70's LA Family.
The image of the Mickey Mouse Mafia always left me wanting to know more. Research raises so many debates that I always go back for more. Did Frank DeSimone rape the wife of his Underboss, or was that rumor? Was Nick Licata even weaker than DeSimone? Was Jack Dragna a weak Don or was he respected, but doing things differently? And finally, the most interesting questioon of all. If Jimmy Frattiano was the first to realize that the image of the LA Family was a poor one, could he have succeeding in making them respected once more? It's especially interesting to me because the whole history is very cohesive, much more so than the other families. One boss follows the other follows the other, and the same few guys stick around.

50's - 80's. Russell Bufalino Family.
What can I say, it's my favorite subject really. It makes a good story because they were involved in non-traditional rackets that really give you a feel of what Northeastern Pennsylvania was like. It also gives perfect examples of how the mob never misses a beat when it comes to making money. There's a lot of history with coal union corruption, including all out war, but Russell Bufalino held things down well and made a lot of money. When the coal mines drowned up, he seamlessly transitioned to garment industry racketeering, and gave all his men front jobs as managers in his dress businesses. Also, something we should all know, Russell Bufalino lieutenants were manufacturing our nuclear warheads in Vietnam. By the end of it all, he was so respected he served as acting boss for the most powerful family in the United States. The Genovese.

Maybe that's why I find today's LCN the most interesting. Because I've been documenting every case I can find since 2000. So, I'm aware there is actually a lot going on. Granted, a lot more was going on years ago but we've all read those books.

I'm fascinated with the Genovese family from the time Chin took over (around 1980) until today. The families current success should be directly attributed to him. He promoted the right people and enforced strict policy. I would really enjoy a detailed book on him. Problem is, I don't think anyone with that kind of info would ever give it up.

Sure. There's a lot to be said for keeping word files on what you can find, and I would be proud if I had gotten as far as you with the modern stuff. But when I create a timeline from this decade and a timeline from the 70's, I'm a lot happier with a lot less questions. That's just me, though.

Strongly disagree. When there's an element of mystery there, it's a hell of a lot more intriguing to me. This is also true of the best crime fiction. And when something isn't known well, it's more "rewarding" (for lack of a better word) when you manage to hunt it down. (I've had a blast over the past year searching for Youngstown stuff, because it's a lot harder to find.)

On a somewhat related note, another thing I like is when stupid myths about the mob get shot down by people who know what they're talking about.

Right. That's why I research the relatively obscure areas above. Youngstown is a good example too. I just like that in the end, I'll find everything. In the end it's all there.

Another thing. Guys like Tony Mirra, Gaspipe Casso, Felix Alderisio all had larger than life personalities. I'm sure plenty of the mob leaders today do as well, but I don't feel like I can know until 10 years from now.

Joey Merlino is the most recent over-the-top larger-than-life character I can think of, and he went away about ten years ago.

Some of the guys in Family Secrets were pretty distinct characters, but they were from another era.

Yes, but a lot is known about Joey already. I think what Barrett is referring to is the fact that information usually isn't learned about many mobsters until the are in jail for life or dead, if we even find out then. Look at the most powerful members of the Genovese family, not much is known about them and they are the most powerful mobsters in the country. Time may or may not tell who these guys actually were.

70's and 80's. Castellano, Dellacroce, Carallo, Persico, Salerno, Galante, Scarpa, Chin, Gaggi, DeMeo, many more. A lot of modern day LCN bigshots were in there prime then. Alot are dead too. The books were reopened. Pizza connection. RICO was born.

You could not have said it better Dapper - a psychopath, a narcissist, an upstart, a fat rat and a nutty genius running the 5 families. Talk about a can of mixed vegetables.

It is interesting to reflect upon the "talents" of these 5, compared to their predecessors. Only one, Chin, can be regarded as a strong leader. The rest of them bear responsibility for weakening their families.

Your right but i think if Orena won the war the colombos would of been in a lot better shape.I mean they had guys Like cutolo and scopo who could of lead the families and they were whacked all so persico and his blood relatives could still be running things even from behind bars.Any colombo guys who took persicos side in that war are idiots

i completely agree with you on the colombos and orena.

For me is anything pre-Gotti. The best mafia times!

I prefer the 80s since it's only then that the mafiosi had finally started to get arrested.


I know it's a little off-topic, but the can of mixed vegetables comparison reminds me of the Sicilian boss Vincenzo Di Carlo who was at the site time a school teacher, a justice of peace, the secretary of the local Democratic Christian Party, a police informant and a mafia boss. That's really a can of mixed vegetables too.

Its almost like the cowboys of the old west they will probably soon only be the legend of the Italian mob.

I would say Cleveland 40's to the 90's.
Since I am from there

but how can you not like phili pretty crazy shit going down there at least after the Bruno hit until merlino was busted its pretty interesting.

Modern times. This stuff is going on all around us!

so many to list. begin with the luciano era where he whacked maranzano etc. scarfo's mad years then merlino war with stanfa. obviously the gotti years when he whacked paul. the nino and roy years. the casso and amuso years. vincent gigante pretending to be a nutter as boss era. colombo war with gallo and then the one with vito arena. after the comission trial when these old bosses make toasts. paul ricca years before he stepped back. pizza connection. carmine galante getting out of jail blowing costellos grave up/donnie brasco times with the 3 capos rubbed out. bill bonanno marrying rosaline profaci in the 60's if im correct? carlo years as the boss of america list goes on and on.

*victor arena

quite ironic how the majority of the years found most fascinating where the crap bosses eg casso amuso, scarfo, gotti, merlino, galante etc - all way too murderous and/or media hungry limiting their years of power. i would include luciano in this list. after researching the guy extensively he was way too available to the media and way too flashy to be a long term boss. still its lucky the legend!

the pizza connection days, scarfo era in south philly, chin's reign,skyball scibell/early al bruno era in springfield, and right now for the rizzutos/calabrians in montreal

Chicago Outfit 1960's. Gianacana was the the Boss. Outfit basically owned the City and suburbs of Chicago. My father was alive and young and belonged to Taylor St. & Mooney directly. Lived in a great area. Family had a lot of money. Was friends with a lot of guys whose fathers were in the Outfit. Felt like my family was a part of some kind of royalty in Chicago. Girls wanted to go out with me because of 'what they heard'. Got special treatment in public places, got special treatment in school. Seriously, it was fuckin' great. I wish I could go back into time and visit those days again. I wouldn't have traded them for anything. Sure, there were a few people here and there that didn't like my family but I simply didn't care.

turn of the 20th century.settling of guys in major cities through out the country, ability to compromise and control judges , cops, unions, ports, survive internal wars..set up their own governing body in u.s. got to go back to when it all started here.. brilliant minds at work..

Agreed about the movie thing. Who would play him? Frankie Vali and him have a very close resemblance (and frankie was good in sopranos) but that would be the old version of Scarfo. Wonder who would play the young version.

1932 to 1942. Mafia growing and forming. I use 1942 as cut off because I believe World War 2 and effect on economy and other ways of life started to change things.

The pizza connection in the 70s. All of these guys coming over and working in pizzerias with international connections.

This, and I always have felt this way. The mob was a nation within a nation. The post - Apalachin era for me is incredible. Every family led by a strong Don. Ruling panels unheard of. Grandiose schemes intertwining business, crime, and politics.

2000 to the present (the mob in the 21st century)

Third time you mentioned this time period in thread.

I can't believe no1mentioned Vegas.how could u not want to go back there n b running the casinos or1of the bosses getting skim money.they owned the whole dam town n got what they wanted.I would go with Vegas 60s to the 80s...or maybe even back to carlos marcellos peak times.doesn't seem like there's alot known on the family then but I bet its a dam interesting time

I think you always tend to follow you hometown more so I think the Patriarca crime families heyday of the early 60's to the early 80's is legendary and should be studied closer.

The "Old Man" was the most powerful person in New England and had everyone on the payroll from Police Chiefs to Judges to people is public office. He got a piece of everything that happened in 6 states and was so well thought of by his peers he had pieces in Cuban and Las Vegas Casino's.

Not a single person ever dreamed of taking the family away or making a play for the top spot and when NY families needed him he was there for them.

I know he didn't have 500 made guys and probably didn't make as much money because of his lack of construction and Union's that the NY families had but he truly had an empire.

Al capone from 1939 to 1947, I would love to be a fly on the wall to witness all of the secret meetings he had with top members of the outfit