Most brutal guy in OC in American History?

Id have to say Bugs Moran takes it.

There have been some Italians who were monsters(Pitera, DeMeo, Mirra, Mad Sam, etc.)and of course Iceman Kuklinski and Barboza were animals as well.

But I read some stuff about Bugs Moran and it is truly insane. He was definitely deserving of his nickname.
The worst thing I read was that he hung a man by his balls with piano wire and burnt his eyes out with cigarettes.


So if you have any other stories of guys who crossed the line from gangster to monster, share them here.

Mad Sam is a contender for sure.
He even tortured his OWN men.

Where did you hear these things about Moran? I've read up on him quite a bit and these are new to me.

I don't think hanging a man with piano wire by his balls would work. It would slice through them like a hot knife through butter.

sliiiiiiice... plop

Vito Genovese

Brutal:

Savagely violent.
Punishingly hard or uncomfortable.


I don't know if there is a single guy that can be said to be the "most brutal" or more brutal than some others.

The guys that were involved in the William "Action" Jackson murder would be up there. Basically any guys that wanted a guy to suffer rather than just put two in his head.

But maybe the definition could also apply in terms of a total body count. So guys like Roy DeMeo, Nicky Scarfo, Gaspipe Casso, etc. would be up there. To say nothing of the guys back in the day like Anastasia and Genovese.

roy demeo and jimmy coonan were psycho's. they're pretty good candidates for most brutal

Frank McErlane in Chicago was a nasty SOB. One time he shot a lawyer in the head sitting down from him at a bar so he could prove his marksmanship to his companions.

Wow... hitting a lawyer in his brains is an incredibly small target. Great shot!!

Whitey Bulger is up there, he killed 19 people, sent many LCN members to prison, and even told on a few of his own members like Freddy Weichel in 1980, who was said to have murdered a man outside of Boston bar. Weichel has been imprisoned since then. He got out after winning an appeal in 2004, but went back in when the Supreme Court sent him away again in 2006. Many Bostonians say he is not guilty.

Al Capone is up there as well, the old leader of the Outfit. He was a cold blooded guy.

John Gotti should be on the list. He was an evil person plain and simple. So was his old partner Sammy Gravano. Gravano was another evil jerk.

Gaspipe Casso, even though that writer Phil Carlo said all kinds of great things about him in his book, Casso was no other than a killer and a psycopath.

Just spat out my 7-Up laughing at that. Nice work!

Toss up between - DeMeo Crew and the Westies. Take your pick. Any one of them. Sick fucks

Jimmy Burke deserves a mention too

Sonny Franzese and Bill Culotta

I hear you didn't want to meet Fredo Corleone in a dark ally...

Good one.

gotti seemed like he was more talk than anything else. Casso i agree with i mean when they attempted to kill him he wanted to kill everybody even people that werent involved

gotti was convicted of 5 murders plus other murder conspiracies

David "D" Barron Corona - one bad motherfucker, member of the mexican mafia in jail and when released went to work for the Tijuana Cartel - Arellano-Félix Organization who were at war with the Sinaloa Cartel led by Chapo Guzman, apparently David Barron was with the Arellano Felix brothers at a disco in mexico when they were supposed to be meeting the Sinaloa Cartel for peace talks - but instead Chapo Guzman and a group gunmen stormed the Disco dressed as military and opened fire killing around 8 members of the Arellano-Felix Organization - Barron secured a machine gun from a dead gunman and returned fire and got his bosses out of harms way, he was then responsible for recruiting and combat training gang members primarily from San Diego - he was killed in I think 97 during a hit when a stray round from an associate hit the curb - then hit him in the head... this guy was brutal, he had fucking balls of steel man....

a little back story on the above^

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdPZ-ygnNwA

thanks buddy ... I shoulda included that lol...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dNi3j9LE-oM

some more on the above also ...

Chapo did PERSONALLY participate in the hit? Quite unnatural for a gangster THAT important.

There are 2 catagories for this, what people have ordered vs what people have done: basically these guys then every other capo/boss:

Roy Demeo
Tommy Pitera
Tony Mirra
John Carneglia
Anthony Casso
Mad Sam
Tony Spilatro
Sammy the Bull

Everyone else.....
I am sure I left a shit ton of people off this list. If you can order the murder of someone and claim the right to play God then you belong on this list. Murder and torture is no different then ordering a murder: sin equals sin

the end

Sonny Franzese, Joe Massino, and Vinny Gorgeous?

Don't forget Richard "The Iceman" Kuklinski.

angelo hook pietra
frank calabrese
charles carneglia

Sam Giancana
Sam DeStefano
Nicky Scarfo

yeah he's a leader in every sense ... well respected by his guys and feared too, and even more or less walked out of prison in 2002 (I think) and is still on the run, well he is really living well and has a lot of protection and cash - apparently the government (USA/Mexico) is going after him big time and has recently killed one of his top guys - we will have to wait and see how it pans out, I'm sure he wont just stand there like Bin Laden and welcome a few shots from a seal... he will have a few machine guns and go out scarface style baby



nice jacket and hat

I always found that photo of Chapo funny. The guy is a billionaire but he looks like a day laborer in that pic.

hahahaha. The look reminds me of a Puerto Rican/Guido teen youth in New York or Chicago. The puffy jacket, the side ways hat with a flat bill, the styled hair with it's fade and stylized facial hair. He looks very American "urban youth"

ya but we are talking about the most brutal gangsters guys like demeo killed 200 and mirra killed 40. gotti was a killer but he never reached those numbers

Probably not. The NYPD cleared 75 homicides and disappearances by attributing them to the DeMeo crew (and that was all of them combined, not just Roy).

The 200 figure seems to come from the hyperbole of Artie Ruffels, who for some reason tries to make DeMeo sound even deadlier than he was (apparently 75 murders isn't enough ). In one interview, Ruffels claims the crew killed THREE hundred people. GTFOH Artie!

Not to be outdone by Artie, Dominick Montiglio estimated 500-700 in one interview. No joke.

Wow. Was he drunk or high or something?

A lot of law enforcement types do this - exaggerate the significance of the mobsters they are up against, even if the reality of the mobsters is that they were deadly, powerful, and require no exaggeration to sound formidable. Bill Roemer was pretty bad about it. So is Pistone, with his insistence that there's still an open bounty on his head.

This is one of the weirder phenomena in the history of law enforcement vs organized crime. I call it "gangster inflation". It is very, very silly.

It was during an interview back in the 1990's that Steve Dunleavy did. The tagline was something like, "Meet the Mafia crew who killed more people than were killed in the Gulf War."

I think they say silly numbers like this because of the way in which the crew disposed of the remains and nobody knows for sure an exact figure, so I'd would say it is probably more than 75 but nowhere as high as 200+ .. thats bullshit

Pistone has irritated the hell out of me with that. There is no bounty on his head. I don't think there ever was. The LCN was never going to kill a federal agent. It would be nuts. The only guy Pistone needed to fear, was Lefty. He was really, really pissed of with him and a dangerous man.

Don't get me wrong: what Pistone did was very courageous. But he needs to drop the hat and the sunglasses.

I agree, Lefty has been dead since about 1994 and I cant see anyone wanting to clip an ex-FBI now because he caused the mob a heap of trouble 30 years ago.
All the guys he upset are dead or serving very long sentences

As for Demeo, yeah 200 was an over the top estimate but I can well believe the 75-100 figure.
Was the 75 "official" figure taking into account any side-Jobs Chris, Joey and Anthony may have done themselves without Roy?
These guys were so damn dangerous!

Even thirty years ago, Fat Tony Salerno told FBI agents nothing was going to happen to Pistone or his family.

IIRC, it included every murder/disappearance that could be plausibly linked with the crew members when it was still a crew, but it didn't include the members' later work for the Luccheses.

He looks like Vanilla ICE..

Gaspipe casso.he buried a guy alive.or maybe mad dog Sullivan.he dam near wiped out the irish for the genovese and thanks to that coonan took power

scarpa.hands down.during his 'prime'.guy was a fucking legend.

Pistone proved there wasn't a bounty on his head when he he visited popular Bonanno hangouts while shooting a documentary. He was called an "f'n rat" and he put on a nervous smile.

Anybody who's specialty was dismembering the corpse is up there on my list for sure.
Jimmy Coonan
Roy DeMeo
Tommy Pitera
also..
Tommy DeSimone
Anthony Casso
Jimmy Burke
Tony Spilotro
Frank/Nick Calabrese
Sam DeStefano

I always read that Eddie Lino was an extremely feared guy in the city during his time, but thats all. I don't recall any certain details like hits he did himself or anything like that, just simply that he was one of the most feared and thats supposedly one reason casso and amuso had the cops clip him,also because he was too savvy to get killed by the average hitter

Very interesting question , There's allot of different ways a gig can be brutal , For Example Amuso and Casso ordered hits on women and murdered there's own members in droves,As did Scarfo, Then you have guys who ran families prosperously for decades like Gambino or Profaci who over the course of thier reigns may have killed scores of people all in the name of keeping order, Then you just gave your all out Savages like The Mad Hatter,DeMeo,Sam DeStefano,etc who killed people in droves and is not limited to Italian American criminals, Roy DeMeo was alleged to have killed 200 people? Well in the 80's a Colombian women in Miami killed over 250

Exactly. I don't think anyone in Chicago could top DeMeo, probably, in terms of numbers.

But Spilotro and DeStefano have to be counted among the most cruel.

What they did to Action Jackson was unspeakable--though Gus Russo claims it was because Jackson raped a guy's wife, not because they thought he was a rat.

Spilotro also put some guy's head in a vice.

DeStefano once kidnapped a black guy and forced the guy to have sex with his (DeStafano's) wife.

And even Spilotro was said to be frightened of Frank Schweih.

the german,boot,mickey p,scarpa,the irishman,'greek',charlie c,gaspipe,spero,the two cops, and a lot more guys that most here wouldnt know.

Anyone see the pawnstars guy has a check signed by Carlo Gambino

Angelo Bruno

In some ways El Chapo really looks 'funny' ( I hope he doesn't read this thread lol )

My vote goes to DeMeo or Scarpa

Lets not forget Jimmy Burke who no doubt had a large body count to his name!

yes Angelo Bruno was probably one of the,if not THE most bloodthirsty mobsters in history

You can't forget Griselda Blanco, Il Madrina, the godmother of cocaine in Miami in the 80's. Far more ruthless and deadly than many mobsters,by a longshot

Precisely who I was referring too

Joe Sullivan

Harold Konisberg

Yeah, thirty years later after all those guys he put in the can are dead he has balls! If he wasnt concerned why the "nervous smile". He probably had fifty Cops there with him!

tony g would shoot him on the spot if he saw him!

I know its who u were referring to. This chick's bodycount wasn't exaggerated either because if u watch Cocaine Cowboys it shows part of a lkist of her confirmed victims and it was a long long list,and it was only a portion of it

Chapo wasn't as powerful back then as he is today but Ramon Arellano Felix from the Tijuana Cartel/Arellano Felix Organization was well known to personally participate on hits with his crew. He had about 600 "soldiers" under his command/patrolling the city of Tijuana and would dispatch his "soldiers" to hunt down rivals across Mexico. Ramon personally went to Mazatlan(Chapo's stronghold) to hunt him down lol but instead ran into the police in a one way street going going in the opposite direction. He tried to pass down as a police officer by showing a fake police badge but the police didn't buy it and he shot the police and the police shot back and killed him and his other assisstant.