rank the families

1 genovese
2 gambino
3 lucchese
4 bonnano
5 columbo
6 chicago
7 patriarca
8 philly
9 decalvacante
10 detroit
11 buffalo
12 kansas city
13 everybody else

what does everybody think? the top six are pretty clear, but 7-9 are very close imo. yeah i know the bottom rung arent viable families(10-12) but i added them just to give perspective.

But are you sure the DeCavalcantes are above Detroit, Buffalo and some others? Almost everybody of them turned informant apart from Vitabile and a couple of others, so it doesn't really seem a strong family. Or did the situation change that much since then?

although they have suffered a great deal with inditement, ratting ect i would say definatly above those you mentioned. i think that although weakened they will be here for a while. being close to the new york families sure has its advantages, although it could also hav its disadvantages if the stronger partners got greedy and wanted to muscle in to a greater extent than has already happened.

i agree with you on the list, five and six the colombos and the outfit are where it gets fishy for me, i wish we had more updated info on the current #'s for the outfit

the de cavalcante have 3 turncoats only they are among the most secretive considering they have 75 made members

Five Felonies' rankings are right. And it's not that the DeCavalcantes are a strong family. It's just that all the families below them, including Detroit and Buffalo, are not what some still believe them to be.

They don't have 75 members. That was the hypothetical max the family could get to. It's questionable if they ever had that many, much less today where their membership is estimated at 40-50.

Only a few years ago the FBI cited 28 made members and a little over 100 associates. What else do we need to know?

You cannot judge the power of the Outfit by the number of made members. You guys don't understand that the Outfit is structured differently than the New York 5 Families who make everybody and his brother. The solders in the Outfit are not made guys, they work for the made guys but still belong to the crew as members. The Outfit presently has about 160 members. However, only about 25%, or 40 are made guys. They also have very strong political power in Chicago.

Still Measuring your dick?

You two guys cut it out already!! DickNose, you're really getting annoying with your childish shit. You're being WARNED for the last time to stop it! NOW!

ChicagoDon, leave the arrogant attitude at the door before you come in here. It is not welcome. If you choose to keep the arrogance, you won't be welcome, either!

Also, The F.B.I. estimates range from a low of 28 to a high of 50. Years before there were about 240 members with about 60 made guys. They have downsized from 6 street crews to 4 and are around 160 members with 40 being made. Chicago has always been way, way more selective in who they make. The made men in Chicago are equal or on the same level as Captains in New York. The Outfit is structured by street crew power. The Top Boss of the Outfit, John DiFronzo, is also the Boss of the extended Elmwood Park Crew. He is actually a senior advisor. The day to day Top boss is Marco D'Amico. the other three crews, Grand Ave., Cicero & 26th St. are partnered with the Dominent Crew, Elmwood Park.

If we're talking total manpower - members and associates - then it's probably a max of around 150. 28 guys who are considered made plus a little over 100 others, according to the FBI.

it's what vinny ocean said, he was a member and he sure knew the exact ot almost exact number of inducted members
maybe the fbi estimates is about the members actually in freedom not the total member... i heard the official boss rigg will be released in a few month

ok, so chicago is structured differently than new york, but they still arent as influential as the weakest ny family. it just seems that the modern day outfit isnt as diverse in thier money-making schemes as video poker seems to be thier lifeblood along with other forms of gambling. out of all the major remaining families they seem to have steered clear of the drugs for the most part,which could be good or bad depending on how you look at it. also gone are the days where chicago "controls" everything west of the mississippi.

I will repeat. The F.B.I. has estimates that range from as low as 28 to as high as 50. My uncle is a made man in the Outfit. I'm TELLING you there are about 40 made active guys along with about another 120 soldiers. The street associates are a lot more because now you're talking about all the street bookies and bar owners WHO DO BUSINESS with the Outfit. Then you have your high level associates WHO DO BUSINESS OR ARE UNDER THE CONTROL of the Outfit. In Summary, you have Bosses, underbosses, made men & soldiers who are members. then you have hundreds of street associates who DO BUSINESS with the Outfit. The Outfit is very diverse. The one thing noone does is hands on drug dealing. that is a big no no.

Vinny Ocean never quoted 75 members. I believe it was Anthony Capo who said the max the family was allowed to have was 75. He didn't say they actually had that many.

Listen pal, do you know how many so called insiders we've had come on these boards over the years? Guys who's dad or uncle or cousin or whoever is a member of the Outfit or some other family. Sorry, but I'll go with the feds over some internet insider any day.

Not much west of the Mississippi left to control anyway.

okay Pal, but whick F.b I. ESTIMATE do you want to go with, 28 or 50. There have been a few estimates done by them, PAL. aLSO, THE f.B.I. IS NOT ALWAYS ACCURATE. fOR EXAMPLE, back in 1986, they said Joe Ferriola was the top boss of the Outfit. He was a capo but never the top Boss of the Outfit. In 1986, sam Carlisi was the top Boss of the Outfit. I F YOU DON'T BELEIVE MY uNCLE IS A MADE MAN IN THE OUTFIT, I PERSONALLY DON'T GIVE A FUCK

I'm happy to go with the latest one, which was during the "Family Secrets" case - 28 "made" guys + a little over 100 associates.

Even if your uncle was in the Outfit, it's not like you've done a personal head count yourself. And what's with you guys always coming on these boards and claiming to have family members who are connected but NEVER actually specifying any names?

Sorry but you're 3 or 4 years too late with this insider crap. Several other past posters on these board have always tried this. Not too many fall for it anymore.

You obviously don't understand the way the Outfit is structured. Also, They never said during the Family secrects case there were only 28 made members. In fact, during the family secrects trial,they said there were 60 active made members. However, they were talking about the recent past. That number came fron Nick Calabrese, himself. My uncle is Joey Lombardo. He was wrongly convicted in the case. I was present at the Family secrets trial. Your facts are wrong. The F B.I. MADE THAT LOW ESTIMATE AFTER THE FAMILY SECRETS TRIAL NOT DURING THE TRIAL. DURING THE TRIAL, THE ONLY NUMBERR THAT CAME UP WAS 60 BY NICK CALABRESE. HE ALSO SAID THER WERE 6 STREET CREWS.Again, he was talking about the recent past. I KNOW MORE ABOUT HOW THE oUTFIT OPERATES THAN YOU WILL EVER KNOW IN YOUR FUCKING LIFETIME.

just for curiosity, how can the fbi knows exactly the number of made members?
in italy italian police barely knows this kind of numbers and it publics very generic estimates
maybe in the states italians are more focussed because of a very fractured crimes over there?

yeah i know that. it was part of my point as people always and still to this day use that arguement to try to convince people that the outfit is so high and mighty.

Doubtful, but take your sorry know-it-all ass out of here and stay the fuck out.

if calabrese himself told they had 60 members it should be pretty right

Both the quotes below came out in 2007 - 5 years ago. Hardly outdated information. And there was a snippet in one article about Calabrese identifying 60 members. But it didn't really expound and the media often uses the term "member" in a very generic and loose sense.


"We have 28 made members of the Chicago Outfit roaming in the Chicagoland area. We have over 100 associates of the Chicago Outfit," Grant said. - Robert Grant, FBI
http://abclocal.go.com/wls/story?section=news/local&id=5681103


Mallul estimates the Outfit has about 30 "made" members and a little more than 100 associates. (John Mallul is the supervisor of the FBI's organized crime unit in Chicago)
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2007-09-30/news/0709300075_1_chicago-outfit-mob-boss-calabrese


Maybe you're related to Lombardo. And maybe your not. That's the problem with claims made on the internet. There's usually no way to prove it. And again, even if you are related to Lombardo, that doesn't mean you would know the current manpower of the Outfit.

Read what I said above about Calabrese citing 60 members. And it seems to me you're anxious to go with whatever number is the highest. If somebody said Calabrese claimed 500 members, you'd probably believe that.

This sums up the Chicago Outfit better than the movie Casino.

There's a Soprano's episode in which Tony is being advised by his attorney, Neil Mink, to which Mink advises, "...the FBI put an investment into it's operation and soon enough they'll want a return on that investment."

I'm also willing to bet that Chicago has NO interaction with New York. Chicago will go defunct before the DeCavalcante's I think also.

ill like to see what happens with the decavalcantes when the long time boss comes out of prison this year

They don´t know exactly. But they are fairly close with the numbers. There are multiple informants in every Family. Surveillance, monitoring guys getting together and keeping a track of them is a solid way to keep up with the count.

If you believe that the Outfit has 28 made members left, why do you consider them to be stronger than the Decavalcantes?

heres a recent case involving the decavalcantes.
http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2010/02/warren_county_pizza_parlor_is.html

why are pizzerias such prime targets for extortion than other businesses. theres been a few indictments where pizza places have been shaken down.

probably because they deal alot in cash, and are owned by italians. how many pizzerias do you know that have some old sicilian working behind the counter that doesnt speak any english? some of these old timers might just be a little more prone to a shake-down than others. also privatly owned buisnesses are a better target.

makes sense
here some more examples of extortions.

Extortions and Assaults

Between 2005 and 2009, OREFICE, DIFIORE, MANZELLA, SCOTTO, THOMAS SCARPACI, DELLITALIA, EISLER, and VECCHIONE extorted payments from various businesses and individuals through the use of violence and threats. The defendants targeted businesses in the construction, home heating oil, and financial services industries, as well as various individuals in and around New York City.

Several of the extortions resulted in serious beatings. For example:

In December 2005, after an extortion victim failed to make a payment, OREFICE, DIFIORE, and DELLITALIA used a baseball bat to beat the victim, causing the victim’s hospitalization.
In 2008, OREFICE and DIFIORE tracked down another extortion victim who failed to make a payment, beat him viciously, and left him on the street. The victim was hospitalized and received emergency surgery.
In the summer of 2009, OREFICE, DIFIORE, MANZELLA, THOMAS SCARPACI, and VECCHIONE plotted to extort the owner of a financial services business in Staten Island. Members of OREFICE’s crew went to the victim’s office in an attempt to shake him down, demanded to see the victim, and, ultimately, threatened the victim’s office staff.
In the summer of 2009, SCOTTO assaulted an individual to collect an extortion payment for DIFIORE, leaving the individual unconscious.

extortions always seemed like a big risk to me as it only takes one person to go to the cops and its over. hell i bet alot of the times the threat of violence causes people to go to the cops and if said person was to wear a wire the thugs could get hooked up with rico. i guess though that once you got your hooks into a guy its a cash cow that keeps on paying with minimal effort.

they also extort through making business owners use their services like garbage, vending machines,unions, construction work and also poker machines.

At the end of the day though violent shakedowns are always happening. its always been around and is tried and tested method of generating cash. I think the genovese family were involved with extorting dockworkers in nj.

"Made" guys in the Outfit is a little different than in other families. From what I can tell, Chicago started using the ceremony later than the rest, and the last known ceremony was in the 1980's. So, while there may be only around 28 guys who have formally been made in Chicago, that doesn't necessarily reflect the state of the Chicago mob by itself. Of course, that's not to say the Outfit is anywhere near what some believe it still is. It's still considered a viable family by the feds but, in terms of over all size and scope of activity, it's closer to New England or Philadelphia than it is any of the New York families. The DeCavalcantes are said to have 40-50 total members but their activity in recent years isn't reflective of that.

I agree with 98% of the chart, myself. Chicago always remains an enigma to me, and as far as the New England O.C., I'm not sure where they stand anymore.

Damn, ChicagoDon got banned pretty fast. Was it BridgeportVet in a Groucho Marx mask or what?

what did he say or do? i dont think bridgeport got banned EDIT I SHOULD N
"T BE LAZY I JUST NEED TO LOOK AT THE FIRST PAGE

You are right they do not have 75 members. They have many more than that. Things have changed with them and they are going by the rules of the old country again.

Are you the latest Chicago insider to tell us how full of crap the FBI, indictments, etc. are and giving us the real scoop on the Outfit?

Things are changing for the DeCavalcante's Sam Jr is bringing in some big business out of Florida.

Ah, you were talking about the DeCavalcantes. You say they have "many more" than 75 members? Keep in mind the general estimate in recent years is 40-50. For them to have "many more" than 75 members would put them near the size of the three smaller NY families, which is basically impossible.

looking back at these rankings, i was wondering where everyone thinks the rizzutos fall in? if i had to guess i would say they would fit somewhere between 7-9, although its hard to say for sure. considering that its hard to get a real estimate on thier #'s(around 30-40 made members), as well as all the trouble up there, its tricky to place them. i will say this though, that for thier size, they sure pull in the cash thanks to the large scale drug operations. we should be able to get a better idea after vito is released. even if he is deported things will probably be more stable as he seems to be the wild card as he seems to still have many men loyal to him. if hes gone for good then we can really see where the cards fall.

Interesting list Five Felonies. I'd assume New England to have greater contact with NY than that though. I'm beginning to think of Detroit as simply old guys who were mobsters who just happen to still be alive, though didn't they have a killing of a made guy in '01/'02? I'm curious to see if they have Italian-Americans who engage in criminal activities in the D.

I'd put KC as more active than Detroit, that recent case in '09 and the activities of Vincent Civella, that and Peter Ribaste John Sciortino too. It seems way easier to find info on KC than Detroit.

"Everybody else" is nothing

The days of the outfit having any real polical power are long gone

That pretty much ended with GAMBAT nearly 30 years ago, didn't it?

There's still some limited influence involving city jobs and contracts, as well as payoffs to local cops to not bust gambling operations but that's about it.

Of course not because if they were stronger the FBI would have more indictment against them. We all know the FBI knows everything and always wins against the criminals (sarcasm). If the FBI doesn't know about it, it can't be true!!

No recent indictments? No viable family! That's how efficient the FBI is.

ive been reading your last few posts and ive held back, but not anymore. im getting sick and tired of people giving ivy shit because of his willingness to go on what the fbi says. is he, or the fbi right 100% of the time? of course not. is he right on the ball? almost always! the guy has been posting here and on the other forum for a long time, and has had to sift through alot of bullshit. it seems like the most effective way to sort through said bullshit is not to go on the many "insider claims" that ive seen in my few months on this site alone, but rather to at least try to get some kind of an official idea of whats going on. i am no fan of the us government or the fbi for that matter and i think that they have plenty of problems, but to discount thier oc assesment seems very short sighted. if certain people want to disagree about the viability of a certain family, than great! but if they choose to do so without any facts to back up thier claims and get upset when people call them out on it then they should just stay out of the conversation.

So who are you? The great defender of grown men I have a different opinion than? Thanks for your input.

Furthermore I don't discount what the US government but I am not about to take everything they say as gospel like ivy does. I have nothing against him personally but it gets rather annoying when every time someone mention a family he deems as "nonviable" he chimes in with something to the effect of "blah blah, the fbi hasn't released a chart on them in 10 years, blah blah there have been no recent indictments, therefor they are not viable".

Then he posts a list of recent mafia drug indictments on which Kansas City and Buffalo are listed multiple times so I called him out. Get over it. His response was something to the effect of "those were just individual members or associates" as if in other mob busts the accused is named "The Gambino Family" and not just an individual lol. Get over it already mr great defender of grown men I offend.

There was a time when I'd be inclined to argue with you beyond this point. However, I've learned through long experience that there's no use trying to use facts with people who don't care about them. There's no use trying to reason with people who are going more on wishful thinking than objective observation. If you want to believe there are still viable families in Buffalo, Kansas City, etc., be my guest. But going by your criteria does bring up questions...


Does the late Jimmy Caci doing time back in 2001 for selling counterfeit travelers checks mean there's still a viable family in Los Angeles?

Does Billy D'Elia getting busted on assorted charges back in 2003 show the Bufalino family is still around? Of course, he later agreed to testify against DeNaples. But I think Charlie "Lips" is still alive, although he's doing life in prison.

Does Russell Massetta's company being raided back in 2008 demonstrate a viable family in Cleveland?

When John "Duffy" Conley was busted for back in 2006 for running multi-million dollar bookmaking and video poker operations in Pittsburgh, should that be a sign that there's still a hierarchy there?

Does the fact that John Mamone and several other people were busted in 2004 for running a multi-million dollar marijuana ring prove the Tampa family is still alive and well?

Wishful thinking? I couldn't care less if there are viable families in these places or not, just pointing out that the formula you use is flawed and and lack of indictments or articles is not necessarily indicative of the family being non-viable. For the formula to work you would have to prove that every branch of the FBI in every city has the same priorities and allocate the same % of resources to mafia investigation, which you can't.

You put so much weight in your formula you believe it to be more accurate than the hypothesis of a guy on the other board who spent hundred of hours researching the Detroit family including interviewing member of LE and former members of OC and concluded they were still very active.

I'd say the outfit is under gambino at number 3 cuz the Genovese is listed as 300 made members est but the gambino's and the outfit have 200-250 est making them at odds in a way with the two

The Outfit has that many members? I thought they had around 50 or so made guys.

You would maybe have a point if I was just going on the last few years. Or the last 5. Hell, even the last 10. But you can even go back into the 1990's with these families we're talking about. The last major cases involving the Kansas City mob was in the 1980's. By the 1990's it was just residual stuff. The last major case involving Buffalo was when Laborers Local 210 was put under federal oversight in 1996. Since then, residual stuff. I'd be willing to bet we won't see another case in Detroit like the big one in 1996. Going by your logic, I suppose I shouldn't write off the Milwaukee family yet, huh? Even though they haven't been heard from in over 25 years. Bottom line, whether people want to acknowledge it or not, lack of evidence is evidence. Especially when you're looking over a long period of time.



One of the authors of the Sixth Family, Lee Lamothe, used to post on the RD now and again. One time he made what I thought was a rather telling statement. He said, "No one wants to write a book called The Story of the Maybe the Third Most Powerful Crime Figure in a Small Neighbourhood in Brookyn for Six Months in 1995." In hindsight, we can see why they sort of blew the Rizzutos out of proportion in that book. In my opinion, mcscott hasn't been very different in regards to Detroit, all the valuable information he does provide notwithstanding. It's what many authors do. Or many directors in movies.

And you can keep going on and on about "my" forumla. But it's not "my" formula, nor is it a case of me vs. mcscott. I take everything he says and add it to everything else when I weigh it all in the balance. But what he says isn't the end all for me. I also take note of what other OC experts, journalists, and, yes, the indictments (or lack thereof) say as well.

All those numbers are inflated. For those who want to go by the latest official estimates...


During the 2007 case against former acting boss, Danny Leo, the Genovese family was alleged to have a little over 200 total members. In the 2010 case against former acting boss, Danny Marino, the Gambino family was alleged to have a little over 200 total members. The latest estimated associate count for the NY families is about 5 associates for every made member. Giving approximately 1,000 associates each for the Genovese and Gambino families. In 2007, during the "Family Secrets" case, the Chicago Outfit was alleged to have 28 made members, plus over 100 associates.

LOL, you are even further gone than I thought. Wow, just wow. You assume because one author took that approach then every author must take that approach? Further you criticize the mans style ( Lamothe) then use a quote from him to support your belief?

And who cares if it has been 50+ years since the last indictment. You really think the FBI is so smart the Mafia couldn't outsmart them for 20 years lol?? They outsmarted Hoover for how long?

Do some research on the Tocco family and you may understand why it isn't surprising that one might believe they could neutralize the FBI attempts for 20+ years with arranged marriages and all.

Wait, maybe they didn't dupe Hoover at all!!! Maybe Hoover had a different agenda than to prosecute the mafia?? Could that be so? Perhaps maybe the Detroit FBI branch and those of Kansas, Buffalo Ect have different agenda's than NYC? Wait that couldn't be possible now could it? You have already proved that all FBI agencies put the same weight and allocate the same number of resources to combating the mafia.... NOT.

No i am someone that knows some of the DeCavalcante's People.

They have around 25 in Florida.

First, you're beyond delusional. I think that's been clearly established.

Second, I've done plenty of research on the Toccos and the Detroit mob. And I've never come across anything to suggest that they figured out some way to avoid law enforcement scrutiny that no other family in the nation has.

Let me break it down for you as simply as I can so you can understand...

A more viable family = more activity = more indictments.

A less viable family = less activity - less indictments.

It's really not that hard to grasp.

And I feel I need to clarify again that, if people want to believe there's still a viable family in Detroit, I don't argue with that. There's enough conflicting information to make a case for that. What there isn't enough evidence of is the assertion that the Detroit family is as strong as some claim, has 50+ members, etc.

Just out of curiosity

Mussolini14, are you thebarber on the other side?

this whole idea of being secretive or being one step ahead of the government only works on a small scale at best. im sure that there are a few made members in ny who havent been identified by law enforcement, but thats about it. the idea that a family can have huge amounts of activity and make boatloads of cash without drawing attention to itself is almost laughable in todays technologically advanced society. a few scams can fly under the radar, but over time somebody is bound to slip up, but with some people no amount of evidence is good enough and their opinions are set in stone.

Nope, I'm Mussonlin14 over there too.

Sure over time people will slip up, but with the precautions Tocco has made with pre arranged marriage ect isn't it logical he would last longer than others?

And both sides have access to technology

gotcha

YOu miss the point. For your theory to work you must prove each FBI branch allocates the same % of resources to combat the mafia. Convenient you keep dodging this point.

For example if NYC allocates 50% of their resources to combat the mob and Detroit allocates 5% who do you think will have more indictments?

I have never stated Detroit has 50 made men but I will put more faith in the conclusion drawn from a guy who has put 100's of hours of research into the subject including interviewing both sides than a guy who draws a conclusion from an erroneous glitched formula.

FTR I admit Ivy has superior knowledge of the mafia than I do, but his formula is seriously flawed and postulates that all FBI branches are carbon copies of one another.

sure he seems to be careful, but its easier to be careful when you run a smaller family. detroit seems to be right on the fringe when it comes to viable. personally, i think that they still have some structure over there, but it seems to be on the downside. both sides can use technology, but make no mistake, the government has loads more.

case in point: http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2012/03/petraeus-tv-remote/

Yep, a more LCN related point. The Feds had Rey Maragni from the Colombos wear a rolex watch fixed with a recorder just last year. It resembled this



http://www.fivefamiliesnyc.com/2012/03/colombo-informant-taped-mobsters-on.html

FBI National Priorities

"Our Priorities

The FBI focuses on threats that challenge the foundations of American society or involve dangers too large or complex for any local or state authority to handle alone. In executing the following priorities, we will produce and use intelligence to protect the nation from threats and to bring to justice those who violate the law.

1. Protect the United States from terrorist attack
2. Protect the United States against foreign intelligence operations and espionage
3. Protect the United States against cyber-based attacks and high-technology crimes
4. Combat public corruption at all levels
5. Protect civil rights
6. Combat transnational/national criminal organizations and enterprises
7. Combat major white-collar crime
8. Combat significant violent crime
9. Support federal, state, local and international partners
10. Upgrade technology to successfully perform the FBI’s mission"

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/quick-facts


For Detroit FBI branch

"In the 1990s, the division found itself tackling serious Ponzi schemes, major bank fraud, and various drug-related crimes like money laundering, illegal prescription sales, and health care fraud fraud. In 1990, division agents arrested Gregory Hooper on charges of industrial espionage. Hooper—an employee of General Motors—had stolen company trade secrets that were estimated to be worth $650 million.

During the decade, the division also pursued serious color of law and civil rights violations, as well as organized crime groups. In 1991, a joint FBI/IRS investigation led to the indictment of several active and retired Detroit police officials on charges of embezzlement, obstruction of justice, and income tax violations. The next year, FBI Detroit investigated a serious arson case that targeted an African-American resident of Battle Creek, Michigan. And in 1996, the division’s five-year undercover investigation called GAMTAX culminated in the indictment of 17 members of the Detroit mob—nearly its entire hierarchy—on charges of illegal gambling, loan-sharking, extortion, and acts of violence in support of those crimes. By 1998, Detroit boss Jack Tocco and several of his most important assistants had been convicted.

Following the events of 9/11, the Detroit Division shifted its focus to countering terrorist threats and strengthening its intelligence capacities. Working closely with the local Muslim communities, it has worked to identify extremist threats and to prevent retaliatory hate crimes against Michigan residents.

With a century of service under its belt, the Detroit Division is committed to using its full range of skills to protect and defend the citizens, businesses, and communities of Michigan in the years ahead."

http://www.fbi.gov/detroit/about-us/history-1/history

NYC FBI Branch

"In the organized crime realm, since 9/11, the New York Field Office has arrested and convicted the leadership of all five La Cosa Nostra families twice over, and effectively put the “sixth” family, the DeCavalcante family, out of commission. In an unprecedented occurrence, Bonanno family boss Joe Massino became the highest-ranking mobster ever to become an FBI cooperator...Counterterrorism remains the largest priority for the office."

http://www.fbi.gov/newyork/about-us/history-1/history

^^^hey, that website seems pretty well put together. that guy must have his shit together

haha thanks

i think the readers like it as well, i try and run a smooth operation. it has become a good source for archived news articles.

It's common knowledge that most any branch emphasises Counter terrorism more so than anything else, but I have yet to see any data which shows how much they allocate to combate street gangs, 1% MC clubs and other OC groups vs the mafia and for Ivy's formula to work the ratio must be the same in every city for the formula to be accurate. Simple as that. I always keep an open mind and have no desire for any family to be viable or not, but as I stated earlier you posting comments from one side is the same as interviewing one presidential candidate and taking what they say as gospel without giving the other a chance to talk.

Did you ask Tocco or anyone what measure they use for counter surveillance? I know it is a TV show but mobsters have said on wire tap how accurate Sopranos is and I recall for example at a sit down Silvio using a phone that the Taliban used which was completely untraceable. Before you laugh this off and say I am grasping at straws you should know there was a Serbian gang busted this January in my city and the police confiscated similar technology. If a local drug gang in a city of 150000 has access to this kind of technology who knows what a mafia family in the city of Detroit has access to?

How many times do I have to say this?



THE FACT THAT THE FBI (OR LOCAL POLICE) IN DETROIT DON'T ALLOCATE MUCH TIME AND RESOURCES TO THE LCN THERE SHOWS IT'S NOT A BIG PRIORITY IN THE FIRST PLACE! IF IT WAS AS STRONG AND ACTIVE AS SOME ALLEGE, IT WOULD BE A HIGHER PRIORITY FOR THE FEDS AND THERE WOULD BE MORE CASES AS A RESULT!

LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCIES OBVIOUSLY DEDICATE ENOUGH RESOURCES TO BRING ABOUT ONGOING CASES, NOT ONLY IN NEW YORK, BUT ALSO IN NEW ENGLAND, PHILADELPHIA, AND CHICAGO. BUT DETROIT IS THE ONE AREA OF THE COUNTRY WHERE THE FEDS IGNORE THE MOB OR ARE NOT ABLE TO BRING ONGOING CASES?

Again you miss the point. It is not necessarily indicative of less mafia activity only that they value the prosecution of street gangs and 1% motorcycle clubs as they are a bigger threat to the public. Or did you ask them and they told you they put mafia prosecution over that of street gangs and other OC groups?

You act as though it is a stretch to think 1 out of 5 FBI branches places more emphasis on other criminal elements than the mafia. I think most would agree that street gangs are a bigger threat to public safety so perhaps 20% of FBI branches are starting to realize going after gang bangers who shoot out in public serves the public interest more so than going after old men who take bets.

I suppose you failing to recognize the correlation between the two shouldn't be surprising. You're the guy who thinks it doesn't matter if 50 years have gone by without cases. Heck, that could mean the LCN family in Dallas is still around!

Now your just paraphrasing Ivy, when did I ever say it doesn't matter if 50 years go by? You are the one who keeps talking about Dallas like their families state has anything to do with Detroit or other families I have mentioned. You fail to address my points about Hoover having an agenda that did not include prosecuting the mafia and therefor they went virtually undisturbed for decades and instead talk about Dallas.

You said -

"And who cares if it has been 50+ years since the last indictment. You really think the FBI is so smart the Mafia couldn't outsmart them for 20 years lol?? They outsmarted Hoover for how long?"

Isn't it funny how the organized crime experts, journalists, and law enforcement officials in those quotes I put up all have an agenda but mcscott doesn't? Hmmm....could it be that the only difference is mcscott is saying what you want to hear while the others aren't?

anyway its true that fbi could care less of mafia in detroit today since street gangs and terrorism imagine create social alarm there
a mafia family of 30-50 made members in a metropolitan area of 5 millions its a different thing that lets say 5 families and 1.000 made members in new york
detroit in the 50s had less than hlaf of acutal people living and the family had 100 made members

The feds will always take the opportunity to make a case against the infamous Mafia. But it's a case of a family where 30 members is probably the highest total at most and the activity doesn't expand much beyond bookmaking and loansharking.

I've heard some rumors that a guy is making regular trips to Ontario to align himself with the Toronto Sun and take over your operation.

Also, the feds have a habit of going after the weaker families first to give them a final pushover. The Colombos in New York are a good example. They know they can make easier scores on the most vulnerable groups.

he was making trips


hes sleeping with the fishes now

yeah i feel bad for the colombos, its like by the time the ink on an indictment runs dry the feds pump another one out, one after the other, no chance for the leadership or the guys on the street to even breathe

They wouldn't have this problem if they weren't trigger-happy morons, you know.

yea


they brought everything upon themselves

Who was that?

All I know he was invited to a sit down with Dapper_Don and never came back .