I got a question why do the Chicago Outfit and Detroit Partnership call there Soldiers Lieutenants and the the Northeastern families Structure they call there Captains Lieutenants ?
Posted By: atardi
Re: American Mafia Structure ? - 01/20/12 06:04 PM
There are two theories of Chicago:
1) Boss, Under, Consig, streetboss, Capo, lieutenants, soldiers, associates
2) Three large groups with it's own boss and under, under them are regular members and group leaders, and under that nucleus of traditional italian leadership are the associates/soldiers.
Detroit has the same hierarchy as 1) only with counselor emeritus or semi-retired members who are still involved with the administration direct.
Each network that matured did so its own way throughout the century based on its surroundings. NY had 5 organizations by the 1920's with close proximinity to Boston, RI, NJ, Pennslyvania and Alabama, so naturally there is a closely shared protocol that continues today, which may be why you heard so many members refer to the group as cosa nostra, whereas in Chicago you heard outfit.
While all American LCN groups past and present had a similar hierarchy and structure, outside of NY it seems to have been more horizontal in structure with members involved in various ventures. Whereas in NY there is more emphasis on rank and trickle up economics, and that have had to do with the influx of membership that accelerated during the 1920's. Most Mafia organizations in Sicily rarely amounted to more than 10 members each, Palermo groups were somewhat larger in the 60's range, but by the 1920's, informants estimated that there were 3000 members in NY alone. That number is, by all accounts, grossly inflated, but even half that number would be a group number split between 5 networks. That may be why a more rigid hierarchy is needed in NY than in other places.
Posted By: HairyKnuckles
Re: American Mafia Structure ? - 01/20/12 07:57 PM
I got a question why do the Chicago Outfit and Detroit Partnership call there Soldiers Lieutenants and the the Northeastern families Structure they call there Captains Lieutenants ?
When it comes to the NY families, "lieutenant" was never an official rank within the Mafia. No boss called his underlings for lieutenants.
The group leaders within a Family were called caporegime or capodecina. These terms got corrupted by younger, liberal members into "captains" possibly already in the 1950s when the new generation of mafiamembers no longer "revered" the old old Mafia tradition.
The word lieutenant's transition from having been (and still is, of course) a rank designation within the military to one that describes a rank within the Mafia is, I think, a blunder from journalists who described gangsters in general and their underlings. So it stuck.
Posted By: pizzaboy
Re: American Mafia Structure ? - 01/20/12 08:02 PM
When it comes to the NY families, "lieutenant" was never an official rank within the Mafia. No boss called his underlings for lieutenants.
That's right, Hairy.
I think the term came about in the media, then later in Hollywood because it sounds dramatic, even theatrical. Frankly, it alway bugs me a bit when I read it.
Posted By: HairyKnuckles
Re: American Mafia Structure ? - 01/20/12 08:10 PM
When it comes to the NY families, "lieutenant" was never an official rank within the Mafia. No boss called his underlings for lieutenants.
That's right, Hairy.
I think the term came about in the media, then later in Hollywood because it sounds dramatic, even theatrical. Frankly, it alway bugs me a bit when I read it.
The same thing with "Murder Inc". I doubt very much that the members of that gang called themselves "Murder Inc". In my opinion, "Murder Inc" was totally a media invention.
Posted By: pizzaboy
Re: American Mafia Structure ? - 01/20/12 08:20 PM
In my opinion, "Murder Inc" was totally a media invention.
Yeah, but at least that was a good one
.
Posted By: HairyKnuckles
Re: American Mafia Structure ? - 01/20/12 08:24 PM
In my opinion, "Murder Inc" was totally a media invention.
Yeah, but at least that was a good one
.
Agreed. It certainly helped selling newspapers.
Posted By: ht2
Re: American Mafia Structure ? - 01/20/12 09:08 PM
When it comes to the NY families, "lieutenant" was never an official rank within the Mafia. No boss called his underlings for lieutenants.
That's right, Hairy.
I think the term came about in the media, then later in Hollywood because it sounds dramatic, even theatrical. Frankly, it alway bugs me a bit when I read it.
The same thing with "Murder Inc". I doubt very much that the members of that gang called themselves "Murder Inc". In my opinion, "Murder Inc" was totally a media invention.
They referrered to themselves as the "Combination" or "National Combination". A ny reporter came up with "Murder Inc.". I think NYTimes came up with "syndicate".
Posted By: Sonny_Black
Re: American Mafia Structure ? - 01/20/12 10:53 PM
In the mafia, the term lieutenant is used to describe a high-ranking member in a criminal organization or crew who doesn't hold the official rank of caporegime. This sometimes applies to non-Italian associates who are respected enough to be considered a leading figure.
Posted By: IvyLeague
Re: American Mafia Structure ? - 01/21/12 07:42 AM
"Lieutenant" has often been used by the media as a generic term. For example, even though he was the underboss, Gravano was sometimes referred to as one of Gotti's lieutenants. Not because that was his actual rank but it meant that he was one of Gotti's main guys.
Is a Chief Enforcer Like Greg Scarpa was to Carmine Persico in the Colombo Wars Considerd a Lieutenant ?
Newet Grigrich would call him a lieutenant, if the media doesn't really know the position its easier to label them as lieutenants
Posted By: short841
Re: American Mafia Structure ? - 01/21/12 03:45 PM
yh what does it mesn by horizontal?