mafia outside the northeast?

how long do you guys think until all the mafia activity outside the northeast ceases to exist? keep in mind this isnt counting mafia activity outside the northeast run by those same families. i think that 20 years from now the only family left outside the northeast will be the outfit and it will be interesting to see what kind of shape that they will be in by that point.

I'd bet even money on the Outfit being down to nonviable "glorified crew" status by then. I imagine old age will take care of much of the structure of the family and Italian-American assimilation will do the rest.

The wild card in this might be the "non-made guys with made guy status" thing, I suppose.

Here's a list of the Outfit confirmed (I think) made guys. Anyone know how old all these guys are? That might give an idea of what kind of shape the family will be in by then. Some of these guys might be dead already (the list is from 5 years ago).

Joseph Andriacchi (he's about 80)
Dominic Basso
Robert Bellavia
Frank James Calabrese (will die in jail)
Bruno Caruso
Frank Caruso
Leo Caruso
Marco D'Amico (late 70s I think)
John DiFronzo (83ish)
Joseph DiFronzo
Peter M. DiFronzo
Salvatore DeLaurentis
Rudolph Fratto (late 60s)
Michael Gurgone
James Inendino
Joseph Frank LaMantia
Joseph Lombardo (will die in jail)
Rocco Lombardo
Michael Magnifichi (apparently retired)
James Marcello (will die in jail unless his long-shot appeal goes through)
Louis Marino
John Matassa
Salvatore Muserino
Albert Roverio
Michael Spano Sr.
John Eugene Spizzirri
Richard Allen Spizzirri
Michael C. Talarico

dont forget Michael Sarno

In my opinion, the only family outside of the northeast that could still be considered viable is Chicago. Once again, I use the term "viable" to mean that it meets the two basic RICO criteria - an ongoing pattern of crimes in behalf of an organization.

At this point, it's hard to argue Detroit really meets that criteria anymore. And certainly not any of the other families outside the northeast. And some past northeast families don't either, i.e. Buffalo/Rochester, NE Pennsylvania, and Pittsburgh.

So I suppose it depends on what you mean by "ceases to exist." As a viable family, most of them have already ceased to exist. But that doesn't mean every last member is dead or even inactive.

what i mean is an end to all criminal activity involving made men, ie nothing with any ties to the respective family in the area.

Who do you think is stronger at this point KC or LA

Neither has what you would call a crime family at this point. There's nothing to compare, really.

anything west of the Mississippi is/was a Chicago outpost.

and yes, the only family outside of NY that actually matters is the Outfit.

Dont count LA out .lol

^^^lol yeah, I make my weekly visit to Milano at da nursin' home to givea my tribute

Like I said, LA is just the Outfit.

NorthEastern PA they hit natural gas, alot of construction companies have come in from all over the place to take advantage of this. Some companies bids do not add up for jobs. Shell is shoveling money out to anyone. I think there enough players out there to cut corners and get away with it. One person goes down, history repeats itself more than likely 10 people will go down and so on

That's like asking who's got it worse, somebody with Stage 2 cancer or somebody with Stage 3.

The Outfit certainly did have operations out west, as well as varying degrees of influence over other families west of Chicago. But families in Milwaukee, St. Louis, Kansas City, Los Angeles, etc. were their own families. Not technically a part of the Outfit.

After Dragna's death, the Outfit has had 100% control of the LA faction. The Outfit represents every single family west of the Mississippi on the Commission.

There's no national commission anymore, and there probably isn't an active one in New York, unless occasional overlaps and their concomitant negotiations counts as the "Commission".

Regardless, as far as LCN west of the Mississippi goes, they answer to the Outfit.

Also, the Outfit a glorified crew? Sorry, but never. This city is so engulfed in filth & corruption, they will never leave. They still control SO much here, it's unbelievable.

Young up-&-comers are intelligent young kids that are well-educated. Guys are having their kid's last names legally changed, etc.

My rule is, if you're not right there in it, then there is no way to know that the info you have is correct. You guys make Chicago out to be a small town lol.

My rule is, if you have something to say, back it up with sources, or stfu.

You don't have any sources, I doubt you've ever set foot in Chicago. You're a goof.

No, YOU are the one without any sources, which makes you the goof. Or you're a rat, which is even worse. I never set foot in Chicago and I also never pretended to be an expert on the Outfit, ever.

Thats a good point though Bridge, thats like if I was to come on here and speak on strictly NY business knowing that I've never even been anywhere close to NYC nothing Id say would be relevant for obvious reasons theres a difference between those that actually live in it or around it and those just looking from the outside but thats just my opinion though.

Bridgeport,

While we know you are a proponent of the Outfit, there is NOTHING out West to represent. L.A., San Fran, San Jose, Denver & Dallas have been defunct for many years. The Outfit doesn't have the steam that it used to have in Accardo's days. FYI- When L.A. was functioning, New York also had a piece of the Western families gambling operations and Vegas skimming--it wasn't ALL controlled by the Outfit! Even New Orleans in its heyday answered to New York and Meyer Lansky/Frank Costello who were business partners with Marcello.

BridgeportVet,

I am originally from the midwest. I've been to Chicago many times. Chicago always had a nice thing going due to it being one consolidated outfit. However, it doesn't even compare to New York, as New York's tentacles and control over so many other families were far greater than Chicago's. Remember, New York has 5 families plus control over many others in its heyday. The Outfit is and was big, but not to the extent of New York-Source: Retired FBI Special Agent in Charge of Chicago and author/historian-Bill Roemer!

This guy is a troll. He's exaggerating all of the same fanboy traits. Not only is the modern Outfit all powerful, it rivals the NY families in size. It controls everything west of the Mississippi. It will never disappear. The Feds have it all wrong. And, as we all know, only those from Chicago could know anything about what's happening there.

How can you claim that it rivals New York in size? New York has 5 families, if you combine them to control the city, there would be over 1000 made guys and thousands of associates. There is NOTHING west of the Mississippi any longer. Oh Yeah, the Feds have it all wrong--moron!!! How can the Feds be "all" wrong? They have mopre money, power and undercover agents on the street--If they had it all wrong, none of those "clowns" from Chicago would be in prison. The mafia is declining pal, not growing. Wake up and smell the tomatoes!

ENOUGH OF THIS SHIT ..... You guys really have to stop this garbage ... As far as I'm concerned BridgeportVet is having a good time for himself pissing people off with his attitude.

Stop the pissing contest already!!

***BridgeportVet - You have your second warning against stirring the shit here. The fat lady is clearing her throat.***

i think your bridgeport....

i think your brideport too

the commision is pretty much a thing of the past as well......

I could be wrong (but let's face it, I'm usually not), but I understood moolou's post to be sarcasm.

now that i re -read it i see your point.....

He's right Bridgeport.....Times have changed. It's not like the Old Days. Back then Frank Costello had all the judges, and the politicians in New York, and he had to share them, or let others use them. He had to let other draw the water from the well. The National went to the Lakeville Road boys. The Capri to Genovese. The Sevilla Biltmore, also, but Eddie Levine of Newport brought in the Pennino Brothers -- Dino and Eddie - for a piece, and also to handle the actual casino operation. And they saved a piece for some friends in Nevada, to make sure things went smooth back home. But New York had a piece of everything. They would meet up on how the families should be organized. They based them on the old Roman legions and called them regimes -- the capos and the soldiers. And it worked. Those were the great old days you know. And one was like to the Roman Empire. The Family was like the Roman Empire. And back in those days if a plot against the Boss failed -- the planners were always given a chance to let their families keep their fortunes. And the big difference between the outfit and the mobsters today is back in those days the families had a lot of buffers.

But in a nutshell JCB is correct because while New York shared their politicians and their knowledge, they still had a piece of everything.

Yeah, I didn't mean to come across like I believe those things. I was just pointing out how ridiculous those claims are.

Great article on the Chicago Outfit being in decline-like all other mafia families.

http://gapersblock.com/bookclub/2009/04/26/review_the_outfit_in_decline_-/

my bad...i didn't read the very first part of your post and just the second part and thought that u were agreeing.....its all good man

SC you good with computers where he is located, is it even chicago,

The construction boom is in Mansfield, PA was that Cleveland guy talking about Mansfield yesterday.

Food for thought because alot of people on here are probably oplder than I am, how the fuck do you underbid another construction company for 50 million

Speaking of construction, I have a question for Bridgeport. What financial situation is D&P in, with construction taking such a hit along with everything else these days?
They used to have a huge company and a beautiful fleet of trucks.
Years ago, my husband bought a boom crane and 2 roll-off trucks from them, and their company at that time had no competition. It was a goldmine in that area. What's it like today?

Definitely KC, not by numbers (compared to LA's 1 1/2), but because they're actually sittin' around lookin' to scam and crew

Here's another way to look at things in order to get some perspective. You could add up all of the remaining LCN members outside of the Northeast - that's from Cleveland and westward - and the number would be equal to about the size of the smallest NY family.

good way to put it. in other words about 80% of the remaining membership is in the northeast.

Best post I've ever read regarding the state of American's Cosa Nostra.

Though I'd say Chicago has enough 'made'/not made guys that all the combined guys would be mid level in terms of that scale, think the Lucchese's, 150 guys. KC, Detroit, Chicago, Cleveland, and the few in Vegas not from NY.

i wouldn't go far as to say the luchesse's you have to remember in places like KC and Cleveland your talking maybe 1-10 guys tops......

do you guys consider buffalo part of the northeast? always thought of it as more of a rustbelt city myself.

Most recent estimates put the Luccheses at a little over 100 total made members.



Buffalo/Rochester, New England, New York, New Jersey, NE Pennsylvania, Philadelphia, and Pittsburgh would all be considered to be in the northeast.

anything east of cleveland and north of the mason dixon line (maryland) is considered north east.

If we're talking the entire northeast, it's closer to 90% now.

comparing Chicago to any other city outside of NY? Absolutely ridiculous, seriously guys...

what are u even talking about?

In terms of size, activity, etc., the Chicago Outfit is comparable to the New England or Philadelphia families. I'm talking about the modern day Outfit. Not the Outfit of the 1950's, which you and some others apparently think still exists. Much to the chagrin of several Chicago posters on these forums, this thinking that the Chicago mob is on the same level of the NY families is outdated. Furthermore, you even said yourself that you don't know much about other cities. So how can you say what compares to Chicago and what doesn't?

Philadelphia is minute compared to Chicago in the modern day, please get real here. Philadelphia is a dying city with a withering Italian-American population, Chicago is the polar opposite.

LA and Chicago are comparable, actually. Greater LA's population is about 3 million more than Greater Chicago ("Chicagoland"), but a lot less densely populated and urban (LA is really spread out).

You had said we could ask anything related to your topic of expertise, so I had asked this earlier. Maybe you missed my post the first time, so here it is again:

"Speaking of construction, I have a question for Bridgeport. What financial situation is D&P in, with construction taking such a hit along with everything else these days?
They used to have a huge company and a beautiful fleet of trucks.
Years ago, my husband bought a boom crane and 2 roll-off trucks from them, and their company at that time had no competition. It was a goldmine in that area. What's it like today?"

I took KC so seriously simply because of that gambling bust in '09 with half the guys gettin' pinched bein' under the age of 28 --- something I was utterly stunned by.

I agree. It's got much more in common with Cleveland, Pittsburgh, and Detroit than New York City. I've heard Rochester is the same way, but I've never been there.

It's mafia family counted as a "Northeastern" family though.

Rochester's crime boss was Frankie Valenti, who was made in the Pittsburgh family and got LaRocca's blessing to start up his own crew and operations in Rochester. The local unions in Buffalo/Rochester were once shared with Pittsburgh. Interesting how a lot of the smaller families shared so much with each other, but profits had to also go to NY as well for the representation.

We're talking about the mob families within those cities. Not the cities themselves.

i wouldn't go as far to call Philadelphia a dying city.....mob talk or in general....

what can you tell me about Thomas "Sonny" Ciancutti heard that he;s the only made guy left in the burgh and still runs a small bookmaking operation

He's the only active made guy left. There's like 4-5 other made guys still alive but they are all retired. He's about 80 years old.

Sonny Ciancutti was found guilty of running a large scale gambling operation back in 2000, which was the last prosecution of a Pittsburgh mobster and a result of Chucky Porter and Lenny Strollo's cooperation. Ciancutti's two key bookies are John "Johnnie A" Adams and Ralph "Big Head" Masselli. I have no reason to believe that he isn't making book. Westmoreland County, Harmarville and Turtle Creek are three areas where illegal gambling is still lucrative. He also spends a lot of time at Mountaineer Race Track.

Ciancutti is the "only" made guy left in Pittsburgh unless you count Porter and Strollo, who both defected. Sonny Amato, John Bazzano Jr and Wango Capizzi are the most recent deaths of the remaining members and high ranking associate (Capizzi). Pittsburgh had a strong run for a long time and is basically defunct

wow! what parts of westmoreland county? i hate westmoreland county....its nothing but rednecks and farm land and little small towns....my daughter lives there. i think New Ken is the only area that isn;t like that. and new ken is a shit hole lol!

I'm not sure if New Kensington is a big gambling territory anymore, due to economic times and the current demographics. Sonny still has his hands in operations run by Maselli and Johnnie A. McKeesport is also an area with gambling operations. At this day in age, Sonny is putting some cash in his pocket and has his name behind operations, which still carries some weight. Other than that, Pittsburgh is defunct. My question is: Why wouldn't Genovese have made more than 4 guys when he was boss? Since Pittsburgh was represented by NY, you would think NY would have seen the attrition and advanced age of the members and would have authorized Pittsburgh to initiate new members to carry the family. Same with Cleveland, NE Pennsylvania, Buffalo etc. Even though these families were smaller, they still have big enough territories to generate quite a bit of illegal gambling revenue. In Genovese's reign, he made Ciancutti and Porter in 1986 and Strollo and Naples in 1987. All of them were in their 50's or 60's when they were made. Why not send some trusted made guys from NY to oversee the gambling in all of the smaller cities that are now defunct?

Uniontown, Pleasant Hills, Washington TWP, Bridgeville, Peters TWP (Bazzano's old territory) and East Pittsburgh are still pretty viable gambling areas. Plum, Moon and Penn Hills are still viable as well with smaller operations going. Also look into Jeff Risha, who ran operations for Sonny as well

Which of the five families has a large presence in South Florida these days?

all five families have extensive operations in south florida , but it seems that the gambino and the genovese families have the most going on.

The Gambinos I believe.

Some other names I saw listed a few years ago connected to Pittsburgh were Eugene Chiarelli, Robbert "Bobby I" Ianelli, Anthony Imburgia, Mario Matone, and Nicholas DeLucia. Not sure all of them were made. And most of them were in their 60's and 70's. Any news on them?

Chiarelli Was nothing more than a burglar and small time drug dealer, name got big because he was on trial with Chucky Porter. Bobby Ianelli was an "independent" numbers operator, he took over parts of Tony Grosso's numbers racket with the Willams brothers. Never made, but did pay tribute to Genovese for operating. Mauro Matone was nothing more than a mid level drug dealer, with convictions in New York. Anthony Imburgia was an associate and the nephew of Charlie Imburgia, former high ranking made guy and Delucia was a small time bookie. Ciancutti is the only made guy left besides Porter and Strollo who are both out of prison but are considered rats.

Thanks.

how you know it? from porter declarations or what?

Bobby I" Ianelli is very well known in the burgh.

According to the FBI and the now defunct Pennsylvania Crime Commission, he is the last of the mohicans in Pittsburgh.

Robert "Bobby I" Ianelli is very well known. However, he always operated independently from La Cosa Nostra, as he took over Tony Grosso's number racket with Adolfo and Salvatore Williams. All 3 of these guys split up Grosso's number racket and operated on their own, as they had quite a few public officials on the payroll.

Well I thought it was common knowledge but apparently I was wrong; those "4-5 other made guys" I mentioned according to JCB are either dead or were never made to begin with. Sorry about the bad info.



See I thought these guys were all made but retired - that's who I was referring to in my earlier post. I didn't know that they had never been made to begin with.

Why are so many Pittsburgh guys mistakenly listed as made members, even in the media and by law enforcement? And why is Strollo usually described as a capo even though he was just a soldier?

Remember, Pittsburgh was one of the "smaller families," so their hierarchy is a bit different and much smaller. Strollo was a made member and the local media in Youngstown would refer to him as a "mob boss" because he was the most powerful mob figure in Youngstown since none of the other guys were made. He was also referred to as a Capo, and technically, he was a capo since he ran the entire Youngstown crew.

The same for Henry "Zebo" Zottola, who has been listed by certain media outlets as a made guy, when in fact he was a very trusted, high ranking associate and close to Genovese and Porter. Families like Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Northeast Pennsylvania and Buffalo had to have made members approved by one of the New York families, mostly the Genovese Family in New York, which didn't really open the books very often for the smaller families. Hence, Cleveland, Pittsburgh and the rest of the smaller families are now defunct because of death, prison sentences, and defections.

Salvatore Williams, the Williams brothers. Was there father not Italian?

Another Pittsburgh associate that has been busted a few times over the past decade is John "Duffy" Conley.

As for Williams, here is a good article -

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/s_147857.html

Has anyone heard how Chucky Porter from Pittsburgh's health is?

HES DEAD

Where did you get that information from? My source at the Post Gazette said that he is still living in Penn Hills.

dicknose just says random shit...he doesn't know what hes talking about

Ah he's alright. He's a ball breaker.

BTW, congrats on the 1000 post count Phat.

yeah hes alright i just meant about chucky porter being dead because hes not lol thanks mickey!

LA family getting back up, putting the pieces back together. Alot of money to made there .

Not sure where you got that. There is no real family left there. Not even a cohesive crew at this point. Pete Milano is more or less a boss in name only. Jimmy Caci recently died. Louie Caruso lives in Arizona. Not sure what Tommy Gambino is up to. A few other guys are in prison or basically retired. Los Angeles has always been too far away from the mob's traditional power bases. Even in the old days, the LA family was small potatoes. So it isn't so much a matter of money to be made there as there is nobody to take advantage of it.

Here are some good articles on Anthony "Tony" Grosso, one of Pittsburgh's most well known gambling bosses who was not a member of La Cosa Nostra but operated independently and paid tribute to Pittsburgh's organized crime family:

http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1955&dat=19940812&id=a1UxAAAAIBAJ&sjid=SaIFAAAAIBAJ&pg=1171,5508125

http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1144&dat=19521215&id=0EgbAAAAIBAJ&sjid=rE0EAAAAIBAJ&pg=1771,6624546

http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1144&dat=19850811&id=xdMbAAAAIBAJ&sjid=UmIEAAAAIBAJ&pg=6014,4838574

http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1144&dat=19861029&id=57sqAAAAIBAJ&sjid=BmMEAAAAIBAJ&pg=3993,8818818

FTFY.

Any thoughts on who the most successful boss in Pittsburgh La Cosa Nostra history is? How about the most powerful Pittsburgh Mobster (doesn't have to be a boss)? Most influential associate(s)? This should be interesting!

The Permani Brothers

not gangsters.....but i would have to say Michael Genevosee

Getting away with all the shit he was responsible for makes Michael Genovese the most successful IMO. I know other gangsters from the city were similarly successful, but he managed to stay the boss and a free man in the 1990s and 2000s, when the feds were all over the mob, so he gets extra points for that.

my thoughts exactly and he was heavily involved in narcotics as well...and never got caught

Boss- LaRocca (Stayed out of jail, held the most influence "nationwide" with strong ties to Russell Bufalino, Tony Salerno and Tony Accardo in Chicago).

Most powerful mobster in Pittsburgh- Gabriel "Kelly" Mannarino. He was partners with Bufalino, Meyer Lansky, Frank Costello and Sam Giancana in the Sans Souci Hotel & Casino in Havana, Cuba and nobody came into New Kensington without his permission-You can also make the argument for Antonio Ripepi as a very powerful, connected guy.

Most influential Associate- Henry "Zebo" Zottola or Wango Capizzi for modern day. IMO, I think Tony Grosso or Bobby Ianelli are two of the most influential associates and well respected by the former bosses.