Huge Mob Figures who Never Pulled the Trigger...

Gotti did some killen but then when ya can have things done why not set and watch !

When Gotti made the "brilliant" move of stripping Anthony Scotto of his Captain rank in favor of a nobody, it was because Anthony Scotto had never pulled the trigger, and thus was ineligible to even be made. And for the record, Massino says John Gotti personally killed Vito Borelli.

My understanding has been, a guy didn't necessarily have to be the one who actually pulled the trigger. Participating in a murder in any way makes him just as guilty so he gets credit for it.

When Gotti made the "brilliant" move of stripping Anthony Scotto of his Captain rank in favor of a nobody, it was because Anthony Scotto had never pulled the trigger, and thus was ineligible to even be made.

Robert Di-B Dibernardo and Tommy Gambino, were high ranking in the Gambino family - Tommy was a captain and i'm quite sure DB was a ranked a captain even though he never had a crew...I read somewhere he may have been made in New Jersey Decavalcante Family before being transferred to the Gambinos - when Paul was killed he apparently was made a captain for his assistance in setting big paul up...

Yeah like Gambino, Castellano, Scarfo, did they ever murder themselves? Its not a nice thing to say but I think it takes more toughness, balls or whatever to personally do the deed rather than organising or planning it.

John Gotti had allegedly killed several people but all unconfirmed, like Tommy Desimone he apparently did that himself and did it slowly, (also read tommy agro killed him tho), John Favara he apparently chainsawed this poor guy after he returned from Florida (he was kept alive until he returned), Vito Borelli was apparently killed by John Gotti but on the Word of Joe Massino who by the way Gotti had called a "punk" and lol "a hungry whale swallowing anything he can get" so you never know... I also read that John had got iggy alogna to try and get Louis Dibono alive and bring him back to him, to which he would have certainly killed him himself - theres likely more but cant think, hungover

Tommy Agro killed tommy and agro was acting on orders from gotti since gotti was a captain. John favara was ordered to die by gotti but gotti went to florida during the killing this way he would have an alibi. Louie Dibono was killed in his car by Charlies Carneglia

Well nobody knows when Favara was actually killed as the body was never found, so it is possible he was kept alive until Gotti returned... Gotti had a alibi for the time favara was kidnapped but killed I dunno... I think gotti is the type of guy that would wanna do this himself... Desimone I'd say you are right Tommy Agro killed Desimones older brother (rat fuck), and bragged that "maybe it's time to go for the Desimone Trifecta" which would suggest he killed Tommy too as well as plotting the death or the other brother left alive... But remember Desimone killed 2 of john gotti's close associates William Devino (Billy Batts) and Ronald Foxy Jerothe without the OK...something hot headed gotti would probably like to handle himself... also take into consideration that you can either believe one rat (Joe Dogs Iannuzzi) or the other (henry hill) - I think Gotti actually gave the Dibono hit to Pat Conte who could not get him, I also said that John Gotti had got Iggy Alogna "to try" and bring dibono back alive (he refused to show up for meetings, insulting gotti) however this was very difficult as Dibono moved constantly around New York and New Jersey and was continually evading the mobsters trying to find him... Then they got word he had work at the world trade center -Kevin Mcmahon was driving Bobby Boreillo was on look out and Charlie Carneglia walked up to Dibono and shot him 7 times (4 in the head) - all as I am saying as there are several sources of information and all of them come from informants, for example look at the Iceman (Richard Kuklinski)- this asshole claims he's killed everyone you can fuckin think of - Roy Demeo, Carmine Galante, Paul Castellano cant even remember all the shit he says he done that he clearly did not - I aint saying he aint a killer...just that he has took credit for more famous killings that he had fuck all to do with....

I was never nasty buddy, you got it all wrong ... why dont you show me where I was nasty to you? if so I will apologize ...come on I understand what you are saying perfectly I just don't agree with you ...If you mean nasty by my use foul language when describing the mob then I'll stop ...no problem, I don't want any problems with you guy - I'm a new member with a big mouth relax

You guys are good ! Why did I know that thar was comin We are a good family hare

ok no problem salud, NOW GO HOME GET YOUR FUCKING SHINEBOX

only kidding pal - I'm a bit drunk, I'm usually a good fella

what about Junior Gotti I doubt he pulled the trigger .. he has shot a couple of people but didn't kill em and never meant to either...

I don't really wanna go down this road again but come on .. are you serious... Junior Gotti has killed more people than his father?, I strongly disagree with that and I don't think alite knows his asshole from his elbow.. can you show me where your read that Junior has killed people?

"According to the reports, Cennamo, who is also identified as John Cennamo in the reports, was one of four patrons at the Silver Fox who had identified Mark Caputo as the knife-wielding suspect who killed Silva, Caputo was assigned by Gotti Sr to watch over his son and on that evening left the Silver Fox with Junior. After Cennamo's death, the other witnesses either left the state or recanted, and the prosecutors dropped the charges against Caputo in 1985." - check it out..

so he didn't stab that guy to death then?, it was Mark Caputo according to four witnesses - 3 recanted or left the state and one apparently had depression lol..I agree Johnny Canig and Fat Ange would have done this no problem ...even if you aint the one who actually stabbed the guy, you leave with the killer and don't report it you still go to jail as if you were so his father was protecting his son.. even though it was caputo who killed the guy

[quote=gemini_killer]so he didn't stab that guy to death then?, it was Mark Caputo according to four witnesses - 3 recanted or left the state and one apparently had depression lol..I agree Johnny Canig and Fat Ange would have done this no problem ...even if you aint the one who actually stabbed the guy, you leave with the killer and don't report it you still go to jail as if you were so his father was protecting his son.. even though it was caputo who killed the guy

Gaspipe Casso killed more than a few.

I'm interested in the older Dons. Genovese definitely was a killer, but I've never read anything about direct killing by Bonanno, Costello, Luciano, Lucchese or Mangano. Doesn't mean they didn't kill, just that I haven't read about it.

Capone, not a Mafia don, killed twice before he was 21, precipitating his flight to Chicago. There he killed with his own hands only once--a small timer who'd slapped around his bosom buddy Jake Guzik. He baseball-batted Scalise, Anselmi and Giunta, but they were finished off by Accardo and McGurn.

Thats true. But i think the topic was famous mobster who never personally killed someone on their own or from their hands

I don't think carlo or paul ever did does anyone know if the chin or amuso did?

I don't think carlo or paul ever did does anyone know if the chin or amuso did?

Gigante would have but his aim was bad.

According to pic chin missed on purpose. I will find th post and put it up, there is a couple telling of reasons why. Th main one is that Chin and Vito would have had to have been killed if they would have carried out the hit.

According to pic chin missed on purpose. I will find th post and put it up, there is a couple telling of reasons why. Th main one is that Chin and Vito would have had to have been killed if they would have carried out the hit.

Don Carlo worked as a hitman from a very young age, he killed people I'm almost 100% sure

Where did you hear this out of interest?

John Scalish Cleveland boss

I've heard it from one documentary when I find it, I'll post it to you.

Did scarfo or ligambi kill anyone? If scarfo didn't that is very ironic lol

Did scarfo or ligambi kill anyone? If scarfo didn't that is very ironic lol

Ligambi allegedly was the murderer of Frankie Flowers D'Alfonso, but was acquitted. Scarfo killed that longshoreman with a knife in a diner (and was banished to AC for it).

Don't believe the "play-by-the-rules" bullshit. Mob bosses were getting killed left and right in the 50s without any retribution. Genovese's biggest mistake was picking someone who got rattled around the ring too often to do the shooting.

As far as Costello goes....Vito didn't intend to kill him,if he had,and Chin actually was the shooter Chin never succeeds in his ride to the top,instead he takes a 'ride' the same night one way.If the move was to kill him regardless of the shooter he dies if he was successfull.It was a delicate piece of 'work' by some one well trained not to kill him.
Costello's shooting was a bargaining tool.Nothing more,nothing less.It was also some very intricate political stuff,Alberts murder was Vito's give back for Carlo's support.Probably the other 3 bosses as well.

YUP!

1.If they missed the first time they should have been able to get the job done over the next 16 years.
2.The commission was all powerfull at the time and killing Frank means death to all involved.Vito died in 69.....Miranda when???Catena???Carlo???
Point being they all died of natural causes.
3.What is never written about is that they were on the 'mattresses' for a year or so before the shooting.Very uneasy 'calm'.All the 47 and 54 guys laying low.Frank gets 'shot' and everything was put in place where it pretty much remains today.

Vito didn't have much of a fan club ,what he had was animal instinct to survive and was a stone killer.He kills Costello he gets clipped.He lets Costello live he has a bargaining chip.

No more moves on Frank and no moves on him.Plus Carlo becomes boss and they become allies by attrition.

Vito doesn't get his just due.All the 54 guys were 'his' hand picked choices.Frank was busy with the opera and Keafaufer.Probably the best graduating class in the history of Cosa Nostra....one foot in the past[tradition] and one foot pointed in a new direction.Vito bought in a Jersey guy as his under[Catena] and kept a mustasche as his consigliere as to not alienate the old guard and the NY guys.He brings in as his under a guy with so much money he didn't need the top spot and to much smarts to want it.....life without looking over your shoulder by design is a sign of genius.Plus he gets wired in nationally to the old syndicate,especially to the Jews who were shaping Vegas.Lansky was a Costello crony,Catena wires Vito in nationally where he hadn't be really welcome.He could blast through walls but using a door is easier,and Catena had the key.He was smart enough to choose Catena and that makes him a great boss if he never does another thing.Another thing is that Vito understood that a system of checks and balances is essential to maintaining power,so he created this shifting sands delegation of authority.I don't know if he sat down and planned this,doubt it.But in retrospect it is pure genius.He was dead 43 a month or so back and you can still reach into the well of the administration and find his thumb print all over the place.
Pic

Did scarfo or ligambi kill anyone? If scarfo didn't that is very ironic lol

Are you reffering to me asking if the chin ever killed anyone?

Are you reffering to me asking if the chin ever killed anyone?

Naw more to SC saying Chin had bad aim.

Unless someone is posting as him he is still around. He doesnt post alot unless to answer a question or say something of his interests. Him and wiseguy(no offense ivy jus filling tag in) kinda got into it and he hasnt been around much since then.

Regarding Lucky7´s post, I don´t see any solid arguments backing up his claim. It seems to me that he is mostly rambling. I understand that he is expressing his opinion which is fine, but hopefully there was somebody overthere who challanged his assertions.

SC is right. Back then Gigante had a reputation of somebody who had been hit too many times on the chin. I guess as a former boxer, and not a very good one, contributed to this reputation.
Don´t get me wrong though. As a boss, he seems to have been as smart and clever as any other boss throughout Mafia history.

Gigante was 21-4 as a boxer. So he definitely wasn't bad.

Lucky7 is ok. I'm glad he hasn't died of cancer like he said he was years ago. I'll never forget when he said to me, "Tag, I want you to call me 'Bitch Tits Lenehan' from now on."
I laughed and told him I couldn't do that, it wouldn't be right.

Your argument doesn't hold water.
1. Pro boxing in the '50s wasn't exactly a clean sport. A young connected fighter's record may not indicate the true worth of the boxer.
2. Who did Gigante fight? Could've been a bunch of old club bums.

Philly actually started a thread with that title in the Sit Down recently.

According to pic chin missed on purpose. I will find th post and put it up, there is a couple telling of reasons why. Th main one is that Chin and Vito would have had to have been killed if they would have carried out the hit.

Isn't it true that those made before 1957 had to at least take part in a killing, while those inducted post 1975 when books reopened were not so required?

Everyone was against but you must think his thoughts are backrd up by events that occured. How do a Vito and Chn live if they kill Frank? If they really wanted to kill him why didnt they?

What do you consider a good boxer hairy? 21-4 not a decent pro record? He had a 2nd ko at MSG.

Thats what i am kinda trying to say, if they kill Frank its a war. If they scare Frank he steps down.

A shot in the leg is an insult, a miss to the head is a message/warning.

One of my first posts at Real Deal was a question asking him if he was Lenehan. I basically got attacked by the admin and backed down pretty quick since I didn't want to burn up my welcome there.

Vito and Gigante got away with it because after the Anastasia hit, Costello lacked muscle.

I've always had some trouble believing the lacked muscle argument. Why would Costello need muscle from another family to assure his position within his own family? If you ask me, that's kind of silly.

There isn't much on John Scalish (Giovanni Scalise)
But he rose fast in the family ranks.
he was a stick up man and took the rap for a robbery in the early 30's
He got a early pardon.
He was a lieutinent under Big Al Polizzi.
When Polizzi had made enough $$$$,he "retired" to Florida.
Because Scalish took the rap and didn't sell anybody out on that robbery of a bottling company,they made him boss at the Statler Hotel in Cleveland in 1944.
He was able to successfully merge business interests with the Jewish boys..Maishe Rockman, Shonder Birns.
But Dalitz, Tucker, Milano, already formed the "Combination" a decade earlier.
Scalish just did what was working well.
But after the Applachian Bust in 1957 with John DeMarco...Scalish decided to stop making new members. Closed the books. He had enough $$$$. Skim $$$,
casinos in Southern Ohio...gambling proceeds from Youngstown...his vending sevice....
At this time his health was slowly going south.
He moved out Kinsman Road(ghetto) in Cleveland to Gates Mills(Eastern Suburb) in 1964. Rockman and Lonardo moved to the same suburb.
Scalish was so well off,he gave the numbers rackets to Shonder Birns.
Intresting side note about Scalish.....the guys beneath him...Frank Brancato, Dominic Sospirato(Ange's cousin) John DeMarco, Anthony Milano all spoke in their old country dialects...Sicilian, Calabresian.....but Scalish didn't have a accent...I guess part of that being he was born in Cleveland.
I do know at some point Scalish instructed all his capos, and street bosses to drive Buicks instead of Cadillacs.
But Scalish was a very low key boss was very much in the shadows. He was close to Mickey Cohen and Jackie Pressers dad Bill Presser.
I don't think he imposed a street tax like that do in Chicago.
He lets all his underlings make their own money. Every earned under Scalish.
I don't he had "green eyes"

here is a list of mobsters, who have reached top positions without having ever pulled the trigger

Angelo Bruno
Carlos Marcello
Santo Trafficante, Jr.
Peter Milano
Jerry Agiuolo
Matthew Madonna
Michael Franzese
Nicky Scarfo Jr
Frank Gioia Jr
Bill Bonanno

Going back some: since Chin was 21-4 with only one ko, how many where fixed? Did he pay the judges, cause only one guy "took a fall".

I know that both Bill Bonanno and Michael Franzese claimed they never personally killed anyone. And maybe they're telling the truth. But I don't know how we can be so sure for everybody on that list.

Interesting thing is that when I brought up that I had read Lenehan was known to post as Picasso the thread was quickly closed by the admin.

These arguments are still going on? I was a member of the RD back around 98-01 and that was the talk then. Some guy by the name of Batman was all over him. Telling everyone that he was Lenehan and trying to expose him. There were two groups back then, those that were 100% sure he was and those that were 100% sure he wasn't. I figured thos would have been figured out by now or at least dropped. I actually was surprised to hear he was alive, last I heard he was on his death bed.

I think people have reasons to protect him, i.e: so that he continues to post.

Are Smartened Up, LTH and Jilly still posting on the RD?

The mob made money on boxers much the same way as the mob did/do with "pump and dump" schemes on Wall Street. Having a boxer with, let´s say a 7 or 8 winning streak, the mob made huge money on betting on the same boxer to lose a match against a weaker opponent who average Joe was convinced would lose.
The mob controled the boxing industry back then and managed many, many boxers. Those boxers were told to take a dive, or lose on purpose, when it suited the mob.

So Chin's losses are most likely the mob cash in fights.

Carlo Gambino of actually carrying out the hit on anastasia.

This just popped in to my head. We can name like...7 murders that Carlo Gambino ordered and dozens of murders that Albert Anastasia ordered. But what of Vincent Mangano? Was he a relatively peaceful guy? His primary often called for terrorizing dock workers but I never heard of any of them getting hurt. Just wondering.

Massino yesterday also named John Gotti as the triggerman in the 1975 hit of Vito Borelli

Was he related to Henry Borelli in any way?