Hector Pagan flips against Reneee's dad TG

Check out the article I posted below!

Ha! I remember when we first heard about this Pagan guy. With Mob Wives revolving in a large part around 'those dirty rats that put my daddy away' it'll be funny to see how Renee explains why her ex-husband, who apparently appeared on the show, is now playing for Team America.

Apparently it was Pagan who was the 'confidential source' who taped Graziano talking about the loan sharking debt that has him facing extortion charges.

Guess this ends any hopes that TG was gonna get the top spot

Poor bastards goin away for a long time cause of it

pagan is that shortened for pagano i was just thinking about this.

Why does it matter.

Not the best year for the Bonannos, is it.

'Pagan' does seem like an odd last name. Pagano sounds very Italian

I've never seen the mob wives show, but while sitting in the dentist office I saw the ladies being interviewed by Joy Behar, and Renee said her ex-husband isn't Italian.

Even though its appararently of Gaelic origin, its also a common South American Hispanic name. Its not short for anything.

With a name like Hector though?

Pagan is Puerto Rican

very common PR last name

Hmmph.

Yep. His mother is Italian but his father was not.

Exactly, Dapper.

There are literally hundreds of Puerto Rican people named Pagan in the Bronx alone. It's a very common name in the Latino community, as is his first name (Hector).

Mob Wives star Hector "Junior" Pagan secretly taped conversations for the FBI

The “Mob Wives” yesterday found out that one of the cast members has been wearing a wire for the FBI.
Not as a reality TV stunt. For real.
The ex-husband of “Wives” star Renee Graziano, Hector “Junior” Pagan, who was seen regularly on the hit reality series last year and was set to play a prominent role in the upcoming season, was reportedly flipped by the feds last summer.
And his first victim was no less than Bonanno crime family capo Anthony Graziano — the father of Renee and show creator Jennifer Graziano.
Pagan, a family associate, was arrested on Staten Island last week — in the midst of filming the series’ upcoming season — along with his former father-in-law.
But yesterday the cast and crew learned from a report in the online mob newsletter ganglandnews.com that Pagan had been secretly taping conversations with the elder Graziano for the government.
It was a jolt of real-life drama for the show that has relied heavily on mob stereotypes and hair-pulling brawls.
“The first inclination is always to say, ‘Shut it down,’ ” a shaken Jennifer told The Post of the show yesterday.
“It is a reality show, and I knew this was going to be personal to me going into this,” she said. “But I didn’t know this was going to happen.”
According to reports, Pagan — who was looking at a long prison term for armed robbery for his role in allegedly sticking up a high-stakes poker game — agreed to wear a wire and record conversations with his ex-father-in-law.
The tape reportedly caught the elder Graziano instructing Pagan to collect a $150,000 loanshark debt from an unidentified man.
Graziano, 71, recently finished a substantial prison sentence when he was arrested at home last week.
Pagan — father of Renee’s 17-year-old son AJ, who also appears on the show — appeared in several episodes of the VH1 show last season and was slated to be a bigger character this season, Jennifer said.
In the first episode of the new season, set to begin Jan. 1, Pagan is shown pacing outside the federal courthouse in downtown Brooklyn, telling Renee via cellphone that he had been offered a deal by prosecutors on an earlier arrest.
The show has completed shooting seven of a scheduled 12 episodes and will incorporate yesterday’s real-life drama into its storyline, Jennifer said.
“We’re making a reality show, and this is the reality of what’s going on,” she said.
How is Renee reacting to the news?
“Renee is an open book and lets people into her life because she wants people to understand what she’s going through,” Jennifer replied.
The sisters claimed last year that their father had cut off all contact with them because he did not approve of the TV show.
Jennifer said her father is now “taking it as it comes.”
As for learning that his ex-son-in-law helped put him in jail again, “I’m sure he’s not thrilled,” she said.
“He spoke to my mother and he just said he wished he could have had Thanksgiving with his family. He’s [locked up] and he’s going to deal with it.”

http://fivefamiliesnyc.blogspot.com/

http://www.nypost.com/p/entertainment/tv/hubby_snitch_e3t2UWrwv9nNiYsY0J7hgM#ixzz1fQ8TCOep

You guys know it's rare for me to empathize with a mob guy, but I've been looking at the transcripts and I honestly feel bad for this old bastard.

First off, he says he tells his son in law that he'd "never" hurt the guy, then he says he's willing to knockdown the 150 grand to 25 grand. Shit, in mob circles, he's showing the guy a lot of love.

Plus, it's obviously money that pre-dates his 2003-2011 prison term, so cut the guy some friggin slack. If they didn't have RICO, the statute would be long gone anyway.

And finally, look at the hand he got dealt by his two hideous daughters. They've embarrassed this poor bastard on SO MANY levels (within the mob, within his family, withing law enforcement, within the media, etc.), that it's almost impossible not to feel something for the guy.

Give him a fucking break.

Not to mention the two other guys who were in the Bonanno administration with him both flipped.

If the rumors are true about his love of torturing debtors, I don't feel an ounce of sorrow for the guy. It's the best thing that could happen to someone, karmic-ally speaking.

Well, yeah, but he doesn't get my sympathy there because he was waist-deep in crimes with those two guys. When you're part of a criminal conspiracy, you have to expect the worst of other criminals. That's the life. You play you pay.

But this is just different for some reason. Graziano was actually looking to not only show the debtor leniency, but it seems to me that he was honestly acting as a friend. And to get fucked by your own (former) son-in-law, well, I just feel bad for the guy.

TG's family has done so much damage to him. usually its your mafia family that ends up fucking u.

That's EXACTLY what I mean.

Hell, if this guy goes out tomorrow and starts shaking people down and his best friend in the life rats him out, then too fucking bad, put the guy away for life. Like I said, you play you pay.

But the embarrassment that this guy has suffered at the hands of his own useless daughters gets him a modicum of sympathy from me. That's all.

It's my understanding that there is no mention of loansharking, or any key words like "vig" or "juice" on the tapes. Couldn't he just play it off like he loaned a guy some money on the up and up? nothing illegal?

As long as the guy who owe's the 150K doesn't testify he should be good right? And obviously as long as there are no other tapes.

Wouldn't be the first time they indicted someone and had no real hard evidence.

They've gotten convictions before when the alleged debtor swore up and down that it was a "friendly loan," so who knows? To me it looks like a shaky case, but who knows what other evidence they have?

Graziano is kind of high profile and considered an "old timer," so I don't think the Feds would indict him unless they really believed that they'll beat him. They wouldn't want the negative publicity. I mean, lets be honest, they don't have a 96 percent conviction rate at trial for nothing. They stack the deck, and they win. Plus, his loser son-in law being the star witness will probably hurt him more than help him.

Time will tell.

PB where can i read those transcripts?

You can read it partially here, Yig:

http://joebrunoonthemob.wordpress.com/20...s-back-in-jail/

What I don't understand is how Pagan got busted for robbing card games.I read that transcript and apparantley he and his crew went to the place and Pagan aimed his gun at their knees and said empty your pockets to the players.They also hit 2 wall safe's that were virtually empty.Small score[like 5 grand]for a big risk.But my question is how do you get arrested for it?The ones who got hit[I think Bonanno's crew]are not going to report it to the cops.That's basically something you take care of on your own,in house.you don't call the feds and say this is so and so from the Bonanno crime family and our illegal poker game just got robbed.Can somebody fill me in?

i thought some of the guys with pagan flipped and told the feds about the score from what i read then the feds went after pagan and he flipped/got wired up against TG

Right Dapper Don that's what I took from it also,but when it says a couple of guys from Pagan's crew flipped I'm still wondering how it came up.Maybe I'm trying to complicate this too much,but I'm trying to place in my mind the Feds saying to the guys that flipped,''What kind of info.can you give us on mob stuff to save your butts''We were robbing high-stakes poker games with H.Pagan''So then the feds go and arrest Pagan just like that.I mean was there even proof of a crime,I'm sure the guys that got robbed didn't report a crime.I don't know maybe I'll just stop there.But do you see my point.I mean if somebody gets whacked and they find a body,the body is proof somebody got whacked,then the feds could say to somebody like Pagan who killed so and so,but in this case where's the proof?

thanks PB

i see your point and I think your thinking too much into it

what prob happened was the feds approached pagan's buddies with evidence of the card game robberies or some other charges, the buddies didnt want to go to jail and they offered to flip and told the feds pagan was on the score with them with a gun, the feds approached pagan with this and flipped him against tg

thanks Dap I'm satisfied with that

Exactly, Dapper.

They don't call it the domino effect for nothing. It probably all started with the guy who was the lookout or the driver. He flips on the gunman. The gunman flips on Pagan. Pagan flips on TG ....

I agree that the Graziano sisters messed it up for their pops. A real old-school mob guy like Tony Graziano like things quite. They don't want the world knowing who they are or what they're about. I think even though Renee is a trash mouth, she's a hot babe with a nice set of legs. Sorry, just couldn't help it.

NJBOY55 Just curious have you had any problems with your eye sight lately.Sometimes when you get older you don't see has good.Not one to mock other people's opinions but saying Renee Graziano is hot is like [I'll just leave it at that]

alot of guys think shes hot. i for one am not one of those guys.

Renee Graziano?

I'd rather shave my head with a cheese grater....while chewing on tin foil.

She is nasty when it comes to her physical appearance and her personality. I would not want to wake up to that guerrilla-face every morning

Haha... You guys are molto pazzo!! She is bellessima. She has a very sexy way about her, and those legs. Mammmma mia!

must be a jersey thing

Maybe the Jersey State mental hospital.

That broad could scare the paint off a wall.

WTF, have I been in a coma and missed all this or am I restricted to my cheese grater my head

according to the new gangland TG was photographed by the fbi going to a meeting with the acting boss Vinny TV and a few other bonanno soldiers

"Sources tell Gang Land that DEA agent Al Gyenes and his group of agents that investigate wiseguys have made Vincent (Vinny TV) Badalamenti, the Brooklyn-based mobster who has served as acting Bonanno boss for about two years now, their main target.

“They are watching Vinny TV very closely,” said one law enforcement source, who noted that unlike FBI agents, who belong to “squads,” agents for the Drug Enforcement Administration are assigned to work in “groups,” not squads.

Less than two months ago, on October 18, the agents were watching as Graziano met up with Badalamenti and several other Bonanno wiseguys for a not-so-secret meeting at Mike’s Place, a popular Greek diner in the Annadale section of Staten Island.

Also attending the session with Vinny TV and the since-arrested and incarcerated Graziano were Bonanno soldiers Arthur Tarzia and Vito Balsamo, according to Nicole Argentieri, a deputy chief of the Brooklyn U.S. Attorney’s organized crime unit.

The agents, who had flipped Graziano’s ex-son-in-law Hector Pagan months earlier, were on the scene when TG and his driver, mob associate Matthew Rinaldo, showed up for lunch at Mike’s Place after a scheduled trip to his doctor earlier that day, according to court records."

ganglandnews.com

PB, I love it. LOL!

Ok I will start by saying I'm new here and know alot about this subject..... Hector (J.R) pagans mother was Italian his father was From P.R. His name was changed to junior by graziano when his daughter started dating him 22 years ago. T.G didn't want his associates to know his lil girl was dating a puerto rican.
As for the wire and the arrest, it is not normal for the D.E.A to make an extortion arrest and take away credit from the F.B.I. You will see the reason this was done pagan is giving them 22 years worth of information about T.G and they don't need anything else to make a case and put him away for life. It will be interesting to see how this unfolds!
Also I wanna say it is pathetic that our country allows people to participate in a life of crime and let them go free after giving up there accomplices! To call these people rats is being to kind they are the worst scumbags.
It's a sad world we live in!
An old associate

Puerto ricans, never trust them. Look at how they ruin every neighborhood they live in with their hood rat behavior.

Ouch, Palomita, you know when you wrote that you were wrong. What ethnicity are you?

Palomita, you were warned back in October about this stereotypical, racist shit. Since you appear to take that warning lightly, you can take a vacation from these boards, on me.

Since you appear rather intermittently, take a year off. Good riddance.

Hector pagan must REALLY hate the grazianos.Y is he now appearing on Mob wives if he is wearing a wire ?Its like he wants to rub it in ther faces.Im guessing TG must of made his life hell al these years so this is sweet revenge

Yeah, I was thinking that. Pagan's a real ballsy, and enjoys being a rub-it-in-your-face asshole.

I told my girlfriend about the 3 capos murder and TG's role in it.

Success!! She hates Mob Wives and now the two of us can go back to watching Nazi shit on the Military Channel and reruns of The Sopranos....oh that and Jerseylicious!

what was TG's role in the 3 Capos murder? I must have forgot...

He was with Massino, right? I mean he may have not been one of the trigger men but he definitely knew of it going done, probably before also

^ive never read about him being one of the shooters or having any involvement in it as well

i dont even think he was a Capo at that point, but he was close to Massino thats for sure

"Massino and Napolitano lured the three renegades to a sit-down regarding the future family leadership of the Bonanno family. Rizzuto came from Montreal with two Sicilian hitmen to join Massino, Salvatore Vitale, and Sciascia. When the three capos arrived with Frank Lino, the assailants Sal Vitale, Vito Rizzuto and Napolitano burst out of a closet holding shotguns and pistols. Trinchera, Giaccone and Indelicato tried to escape but were shot to death. Lino escaped unscathed by running out the door. Indelicato's son Anthony "Bruno" Indelicato was meant to be killed as well, but missed the meeting when the capos decided to take Frank Lino instead. Bruno fled New York, but when he re-surfaced, Massino and Napolitano turned to soldier Benjamin "Lefty" Ruggiero and associate Donnie Brasco and gave them the 'contract' so Brasco could become a made man in the Bonanno family."

Renee gave an interview on the radio and she addressed Junior

"Angela asks about the makeup between Renee and Junior on the last episode. He says he still loves Renee and realized it when he thought he was going to lose her. He said he wanted to reunite. Angela wants to know where things stand right now. Renee’s face shows a mix of sadness and pain as she thinks of how to answer this question. Renee says, “My relationship with him is very complicated. Very complicated. I have always, always cut him enough slack and I think now, at this stage that we’re in, it’s pretty much…there is no more, no more room.” Envy says they heard a rumor that Junior testified against her family member, is it true? Renee answers, “He didn’t testify, according to documents, he wore a wire.” Envy says that’s worse than testifying. They mention her family member, her father. Renee starts to cry, her emotions about this are very raw because it didn’t happen that long ago and it was during this time that Junior was trying to reconcile with her. Renee says they did put her father back in prison to finish serving his sentence because he was out early for good behavior. He came out August 4th and went back in November 21. Charlamagne says, “Junior should be dead to you right now.” Again Renee looks like she is going to cry. She says her father wasn’t the target, he was a casualty. They ask how AJ feels. Renee says, “that’s his father and his grandfather and it’s a very difficult situation for a child to go through. I don’t expect him to pick either one or both, whatever he wants. But, if AJ is as smart as I think he is, he’ll have a relationship with his father and his grandfather because she is trying to keep him away from the same mistakes she has made over the years.” They say that Junior cannot go back to Staten Island. Renee says she doesn’t know where Junior is. They had plans to get married."

http://mobwives.blogspot.com/2012/01/mob-wives-renee-graziano-power-105.html

Graziano had to know at least, just based on his relation with Massino

maybe or maybe not, him and Massino might not have been that close at that time and prob got closer as Massno took over the family... if TG did have a role I feel that he would have received some type of charge related to the murders thwon at him with Vitale and Massino flipping....

Graziano was originally close to Tony Spero. Took over Spero crew in 1985 when Spero became consigliere.

Hmm....just read about Spero, interesting dude, 'Firecracker racket'

^^^ now that guy Spero was a powerhouse, I read he was out on like $10+million bail! at one point

I remember Gotti Jr has the highest bail on record for a criminal case it was like $15 million the NYtimes wrote about that

speaking of vitale and massino, i remember when they reported that some bonannos were not going to recognize vinny gorgeous anymore as boss cause it was massino who turned rat that appointed him, if thats the case then the same could be said about TG who got appointed Consig by Massino in Mexico after Spero was put on trial, what do u guys think?

I´m not sure of that. I think Massino appointed Graziano acting consigliere while Spero was indicted. When Spero was convicted and sent to life in prison, Graziano was officially elected consigliere by the Bonannos. (I think.) But if this is the case, by Mafia standards, no one can break Graziano unless the capos demands it. I´m not saying that THIS never happened though..

i dont think TG was elected by the Bonanno borgata only appointed by Massino, come to think of it I only think borgatas vote for a new Boss not for Underboss or Consig, my impression is once the new Boss is voted in he selectecs an Underboss and a Consig, often times guys who were in these positions stay in them

I for one, don´t know how this rank works today. It is possible that the rank has been watered down the last 20 years or so. Maybe even longer. It is also possible that this rank, this position, today, no longer functions as it did 20 or more years ago.
In fact, I can´t remember any of the multiple rats the last 20 years or so describing this position throughly.
So Daps, you might be right.
The Mafia tradition is not what it once was.
In the old times, the consiglieri was always elected by all members of a crime family. He was never appointed by the boss (in contrary to the underboss and the capos) and he should be because he´s main function was to represent the interest of the common soldier in front of the boss.

This is what Bill Bonanno says about the position in his book "The Last Testament" (wich I recommend by the way):

"The interests of the soldate (soldiers or workers, the initial level in the rank of made men) were not generally seen as paramount. Therefore, they needed a buffer, someone knowledgeable in the unwritten rules of our tradition, who could be relied upon for advice and counsel....
The role of consigliere - the second of the two elected positions - was invented to serve as a liaison between the members and the rappresentante (the boss)."

This is how it was supposed to be back then. Apparently it worked and the old tradition was what made the Mafia so strong. Electing a consiglieri was defenetively part of that tradition.

I think the second season was filmed before Pagan was noticed as a rat, not after, so Renne didn't know about it.

^^^ apparently they are still filming episodes for this season according to a radio interview they did a few days ago

I will say I know pagan well enough to say episode 1 & 2 was just very bad scripted acting to say the least. They figured out a way to get him a pay day out of his cameos from last season. It is going to be very funny to see how this plays out with Rene the rat thing. I don't see this show getting another season they are going to expose it as being scripted and a fraud.
It has some truth but now it's way over the top.

An old associate

Associate, yeah, and I'm the President of the United States. Haha.

Scripted may be overstating it. Maybe controlled chaos. The tension and fighting between Karen and Drita, Renee and Carla, is real. You really can't "script" a black eye, a bloody mouth, hair pulling, etc. with these women. They all have the same goal, which is to make money from the show. So they all participate and work together in that respect.

But within that frame, there is some real bad blood. But that can come and go pretty quickly. Remember it wasn't too long ago when Drita friends with Karen and was trying to get her and Renee to get along. Now Karen is friendly with Renee and at war with Drita.

i held off pretty long on not watching this garbage and now i started at season 2. all the guys at work kept talking about it. they kept asking me this and that about because they know im into the mob stuff. they thought hector "junior pegan was junior gotti lol. now im interested to see why ramonna was in jail. but i agree with ivy its controlled chaos. these women all know what to do to get more ratings, wich means more money.

TG is formally indicted, the papers are saying he is now a Bonanno Capo so it looks like he's officially not the consig anymore...

The father of “Mob Wives” star Renee Graziano was indicted today on extortion conspiracy charges.
Brooklyn federal prosecutors say former Bonanno crime family consigliere Anthony “T.G” Graziano conspired to collect a $100,000 debt with the aid of several other mobsters.
Graziano, 71, now a Bonanno captain, was released recently from prison but was quickly ensnared in a probe by Drug Enforcement Administration agents.
Renee Graziano’s ex-husband, Hector Pagan - a Bonanno associate-turned DEA informant - reportedly wore a wire and secretly recorded conversations for the feds with his ex-father-in-law while discussing the collection of a loanshark debt.

http://fivefamiliesnyc.blogspot.com/

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/brook...K#ixzz1jyl5ztl8

watching this now...god i cant stand hector pagan knowing what we know about him...i cant believe i actually watch this trash lol

"That bitch can lick my motherfu#%ing pussy in front of Macey's, I don't give a f#$k about her!"

- Karen about Drita

^^^^^I couldnt stop laughing

i figured out Ramona is dating Gambino associate Joseph "Joe Boy" Sclafani

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/staten_island/wiseguy_goes_to_pot_feds_IkoCG4y3A8Rmf1pIVHwm0H

In todays episode, when she discusses it with Karen, Karen says the headline "Wiseguy goes to pot:feds" which is the article above

Ramona with DSL's what a crumb..They should rename the show "The Jizz Crew" for those loud mouth whores.

Yo I I don't follow NY as closely as youse guys do is hector pagan renees husband on the show? Didn't he say he loved her and shit when they were taking a walk is that the guy?

More classic quotes...



Big Ange: "I'm meeting a new guy. He just got out of jail. He did 28 years for murder."

AJ: "That don't make him a bad guy."

Big Ange: No, it doesn't.


----------------

Junior: We broke up because you wouldn't let me do what I want.

Renee: You wanted to have sex with other women.

Junior: (Silence)


-----------------


Renee: "I'm not allowing my son to go fuc$ing off course! You know what's gonna happen? He's gonna end up being a fu$%ing criminal. Once you go off course and you can't get a job, whaddya do? Go rob a fu#%ing candy store. Over my dead....well, hopefully it would be a bank, not a candy store."

CLEAN UP THA MOTHAFUCKAIN CRUMBS! I HATE FUCKAIN CRUMBS!!!!!

this sounds hilarious im gonna start watching it.

Daps, you are right. I just found an indictment file (PDF) saying that Graziano was an acting consigliere when indicted in 2002. So he was never the official consigliere. That explains the somewhat confusing statement regarding his rank (that of a capo) in his recent indictment.

^^^you got that indictment? please post up i have been trying to find it

Actually I´ve got the Tommy Fiore indictment file from 2009 (I think). In there, it is mentioned that Graziano was the acting consigliere when indicted.
It´s a PDF file, impossible to post up here. However, you can find it here.
Scroll down and click on "Bonanno Indictment".
If problems, I could send you the PDF file via email.

http://bitterqueen.typepad.com/friends_o...federal-ra.html

^^^thanks

Here's pics of Big Ang before and after plastic surgery

http://starcasm.net/archives/139143

wow i wonder what she looked like...those lips gross me the fuck out!

Yeah I really don't think Graziano will do much more time for this. For one he really didn't say much all it sounded like is someone collecting a debt. He said nothing about injuring this person, in fact he said no no of course not when it came to him being hurt. A good lawyer, which I'm sure he has, will be able to get him out of this. Loan shark is collecting a debt using force or juice. On tape neither was said. As for Pagan, ya never know who is strong enough to face a prison term. So yes a rat but also a coward. I think the FBI spends too much time on the so called mafia, especially something as dumb as loan shark am gambling, very desperate attempt to put these men behind bars. If I borrow money to friends and want it back and yell and scream now u owe me more for the incovienence am I a loan shark lol when I was younger my dad charged me rent if I didn't have it he charged me juice, again desperate. If u wanna borrow money pay it back it's none of the FBIs biz who I borrow money too lol. Unless they wanna pay it back or borrow the money stay outa it. They need to spend more time on these careless gang member who go around killing everyone including small children.

I love big Anj but yes too much on the lips lol

Yeah that was disgusting I almost puked in my mouth. She should be ashamed of herself talking like that. No joke I liked her until she said that. It makes me cringe when these girls use terms like you don't wanna go to war w me. Their fathers, grandfathers and whoever else brought them in this life should be ashamed of the way they speak and fight. Act like ladies not like men.

I only hope when they bring this show to Chicago (which btw I was sorta pissed anyone decided to do it) I hope they show class for our city. Although, they got some grandchildren of nobody important cause I'm sure the other woman shut their door no matter how much money they offered. If they start talking like Karen with that Macy comment or fist fighting I'm turning it off!! Show some respect for out city please jeez. Don't make us look like j*gs.

I give up. jugs? jags? jigs? jogs?

I REALLY hope you're not trying to make an offensive statement with that word. REALLY!!

i think its a racist statement

See, thats why I stick to calling people mother fuckers and stay away from those offensive terms.

Yeah, really. Nice first day on the boards .

On some sites i've read that 2 people within the administation of the family flipped, zny idea who the other guys who flipped other than pagan

They may have been referring to Joe Massino (former boss) and Sal Vitale (former underboss) but, of course, that's old news.

Funny how life is. First Renee Graziano talked a lot of shit about Karen Gravano cause her father Sammy the bull Gravano turned snitch and now Renee's own husband turned out to be a snitch. I wonder how well her big mouth would take it if someone did and said what she said about Karen Gravano? Life can be a karmic bitch sometimes.

The truth of th matter is that Sammy Bull was an animal and if any of those guys thought they could hunt him down and take him on he would no doubt invite it. He could care less cause he was a vicious and crazy killer himself. A guy like Pagan is a punk who couldnt shine Sammys shoes

These chicks from mob wives are just showing what a joke the mob has become. Every other wise guy is snitching to save his ass. Also what can one expect from these guys when you see the women in their lives. Anyone spawned by these idiotic chicks is destined to end up in jail or dead. These broads are ditzy idiots, Renee is a loudmouth unpleasant idiot who can't even minus 11 years from the age of 46 and get the right answer and that idiot Drita goes out dancing and acts the fool by asking guys if they can take a punch from her. She is a dumb chick who really thinks she can beat a guy in a fight because she got into a few cat fights with her other idiotic friends. Maybe in Staten Island she thinks she's a fighter and tough girl, however let her act like that in other neighborhoods in any of the other boroughs like Jamaica Queens, Harlem or the Lower East Side and she will really find out what chicks from those hoods can do. They will drag her through the streets like a rag doll and bring her down from her delusional mind that she is a fighter. Any female can be a killer when she hangs with and fights other prissy Staten Island girls.

does anyoone know how hector pagan would be able to rob a bonanno held card game on si when his ex father-in law is so strong on staten island, how could he get away with it so clean within the family?

100% right

I wouldn't say 100%. On one hand, the show is certainly a sign of the times. But it's no more a direct reflection of the mob today than any other mob-related show or movie.

And, hyperbole aside, every other mob guy is not snitching to save his ass...


"You only hear about the all the guys who flipped, but if you ever took a look at the list of guys who went into prison and how many rolled over, it is not even close," one longtime mob hunter observed.
http://www.wasteprofessionals.com/artman/publish/article_80.shtml

should have been more clear, i meant 100% right in terms of the mob wives stuff not the guys ratting

Yo.. in pops days.. they fukkin thumb cats like Gotti cause they
put business on the street an in tha media.. Now all of a sudden tha
young soldato lose their roots and sell out and live on fed money
till they die of old age.. And shows n sites like these put tha business out there like its ok. and nuttin gets done bout it

And fukkin suini bocca forti like this Lou talk down about people that might do indimenticabile vizioso still breathe..

Gravano is just as much a punk as the others. aint no glorifyin wat da fukk he did. he didnt wanna do his fukn bid cause he knew he eouldnt have to inviye it. he rayted out tha ones that fed him paid him ley him earn an kept hom alive. he knew wat the fuk he was doin when he took his oath. what he was gettin himself into. The consequensesof wat he doed and that he was gonna end up clipped or on lock. thats the life that ensures u get to live like a king until it happens.. he aint protecyed any more. when he came to pa an startef slingin x he got popped and hes out in tha open now

Straight up, I can tell by your lingo your from da streets, welcome to da forum, 1 luv.

Where are the grammarnazis when you actually need them?

I dont think its lingo, it looks like hes just wasnt looking at the screen when he was typing.

I can sort of understand why gravano ratted. I mean he risked allot by going along with gotti and killing the boss also the fact that he was making millions for them and doing hits. To have gotti talking shit about how your making too much money and also pinning murders on him basically gonna make you wonder what was the point in any of it. Also if gotti was badmouthing him behind his back it probably wasnt too long before he would have ended up dead himself. Guys like gravano and massino would rather destroy what they helped build than allow it to go on without them.

cant make out all you stated but i get the main part of it