Just starting this thread cause I'm interested in the Northeast Philly Mob. Also known as the K&A Gang (At least while they were a Burglary Crew in the days before RICO)
I'm currently, cobbling together their page on wikipedia. Trying to go by their standards. You know sources and shit.
So far I can verify pretty much everything up until the late 80's with sources. Pretty well documented. Kropplebauer and the K&A groups travels up and down the East coast raiding ritzy neighborhoods. Berkery delving into meth, prolly with the Greek Mob and the Pagans. And a correlation between Ray Martorano. Scarfo family's link to the Irish and the attempted contracting he did when he got out. Alot of cros polination between ethnic groups in Philly.
Anyways, All that can be back up. That's where the rumour mill comes into play. Scoured the net. I found some stuff: *An Edward "Billy Shamrock" Harding III taking over in the late 80s. Him dying in 2007 *Bradford "The German" Cox Schodler *Edward "Irish Thunder" Burke Both these guys taking over after him and into the present day. And assasinating a rival named James "Seamus" O'Niell (which is kinda true, as there was a man of that name found dead in a bar but unknown if it's connected") And a story of the backlash, of that Seamus getting his coconspiritors killed. Will Snell (Apparently connected to the Dixie Mafia Celt crew of Carlton "The General" Russell and a Patrick Hennessy.
Can't verify any of that legitimately, but there are references on multiple sites as far as the names are concerned. Anyways just wondering if there's anyone out there knowledgable. Any which way. Philly dudes on the forums with first hand info or otherwise. Or just any K&A Gang info would be great. ;D
All I know is John Berkery was in charged in the early 80's.
are u a member of real-deal forum flamingo? theres alot of philly guys over there. if not can i have permision to repost this over there and see if they know anything?
All I know is John Berkery was in charged in the early 80's.
are u a member of real-deal forum flamingo? theres alot of philly guys over there. if not can i have permision to repost this over there and see if they know anything?
No I'm not, Ivy wont let me in.lol Yes go ahead repost buddy.
Yeah information is very scarce. Definitely drops off after Berkery and Carl Jackson's Met arrests in the 80s. Keep me updated onw hat ya find out on realdeal phat. Thanks guys
I'm interested as well. Irish gangsters have been an infatuation of mine since the Winter Hill Gang and the Westies. Anything anyone can provide would be awesome.
Never really heard of any Irish crews being active in Philly but I don't doubt that there aren't any, as far as the Real Deal Forum Goes it seems like that message-board is exclusive for a reason had been hoping to gain access myself one can only dream though but back on subject I have heard of K&A but I thought that was a Polish crew though or something like that.
Never really heard of any Irish crews being active in Philly but I don't doubt that there aren't any, as far as the Real Deal Forum Goes it seems like that message-board is exclusive for a reason had been hoping to gain access myself one can only dream though but back on subject I have heard of K&A but I thought that was a Polish crew though or something like that.
That's the "Kielbasa Posse" (media moniker no doubt) you're thinking of. Yeah with Philly's large Irish-American population it's hard to imagine there not being Irish org crime elements, like you said
Originally Posted By: botz
Also Milton Mcgregor is part of the celt crew along with will snell and carlton russell. Milton mcgregor owns Victoryland casino.
Nice. Thanks for that info botz. It's hard to come by with these guys. Lowest of low profiles.
Yeah with Philly's large Irish-American population it's hard to imagine there not being Irish org crime elements, like you said
Yeah, the Pagans
Yeah for sure, there's Irish-Americans in ever MC. But I mean with Philly's Irish population and generally inclusive nature of most Irish neighborhoods, it's hard to believe theres a working-class gangster presence. I mean it's inevitable that blue-collar guys liek that would want to make some extra cash on the side no matter how shady. And where there's one there's gotta be more. And where there's many they gotta know each other. Simple logic haha
And hmm I can only wonder what you wrote then erased Smurf. HMmmm
There's not many irish neighborhoods left in philly...you got a lot in the northeast, but that area is mix of eastern european, italian, black, hispanic..there's a lot in the burbs now. Any irish involved in OC around Philly are affiliated with other group, but there's no "Irish mob"...hasn't been since the 70s maybe even before that.
There's not many irish neighborhoods left in philly...you got a lot in the northeast, but that area is mix of eastern european, italian, black, hispanic..there's a lot in the burbs now. Any irish involved in OC around Philly are affiliated with other group, but there's no "Irish mob"...hasn't been since the 70s maybe even before that.
You're forgetting about Johnny Doc, he is the real mob boss of Philly.
Still trying to dig up some dirt. Everytime I rustle around ons earch engines for K&A Gang material. There's several posts from different users, talking about a "Billy Shamrock" figure whom supposedly died circa 2007 (as one source says)
So tonite after looking further into this "Billy Shamrock" character, I came across a myspace of a guy with that as his screen name.
So then I look up Bill Harding on Facebook and it's the same guy who lives in Philly. Some kinda entrepreneur (like the posts claims) whom owns/owned several bars in Northeast Philly (traditional K&A turf)
He's relatively young. Like 33. So is this an age where young gangsters have facebooks and myspaces to seem like a legitimate member of society / promotional purposes. Or are all these posts about Billy Shamrock being a key figurehead in Northeast Philly underworld some kinda twisted Internet form ego boosting and gangster wannabe"ism"?
EDIT:In re-clarification of the OP. Seems I messed up when I called William "Billy Shamrock" Harding Jr (guy I mention above) by another name. Might be a relative (Generational nickname) or something or a general research blunder.
Also Edward "Irish Thunder" Burke, is one of the orginal K&A guy apparently. Being one of Junior Kripplebauer's original accomplices, making him very old.
The real mystery now is "the German" whom is quite mysterious despite several 2nd-hand sources that say he's connected with Genovese family members (as are Snell and Carlton apparently). Apparently, LexisNexis has information on the guy.
I have lived in Bensonhurst, Brooklyn for 43 years where "The German" a.k.a. now as "Lefty" currently lives. He actually lives down the street and I have seen how he operates. He's a men want to be like and women want him type of personality. He has the most intimidating and sometimes scarey presence i have ever seen. During his first week here he slammed someone everyone thought was tough for hitting his gf. Three guys who beefed with him have either dissapeared without a trace or moved quickly. I have also heard that he directed some guys to kill some Russian mobsters he had an issue with.
A month ago all of South Brooklyn could view his arrest by the feds who I heard fired a concussion grenad into his house. The entire street was filled with armored vehicles and machine gun carrying federal agents and men in organized crime task force jackets early that morning and there were two choppers shinning lights on the property. the video is on youtube. rumor is that he was indicted on a slew of charges.
according to recent daily news and the post online articles as well as what people in the neighborhood say, he was acting head of the irish mob but gave that position to burke and is now the consigliere of the Genovesse Crime family.
in the biographies of vincent gigante, paul castellano, roy demeo and john gotti, jr. there are references to former k&a boss harding as well as "The German" Cox and Edward Seamus Burke III. K&A alligned with the Genovese family after John Stanfa was appointed head of the Gambino affiliated Philadelphia Bruno family by the Gambino leadership and supported by the commission. Harding hated that Stanfa had two narcotics charges and saw Gotti as the downfall of rackets. it was during this time that harding reached out to vincent "chin" gigante. the k&a gang was split at the seams.
some k&a were dealing narcotics and a biker faction of the gang that harding hated for being classless backed stanfa and ultimtely all got thrown in jail in a meth ring bust.
the younger members and upcoming associates like Irish Thunder and Lefty supported the Merlino faction. Burke was allegedly a trigger man in attempted murder of stanfa during rush hour.
this is according to the books.
trystan as he is known in bensonhurst is probably the most powerful person i have ever seen reside here. he doesnt work here but has no problem enforcing brutal vigilante justice on people most people feel deserve it. he is respected by everyone around here.
but i have heard that in areas where he works if customers getting shylock fail to pay he makes them burn down their houses and pay with the homeowner's insurance.
two days ago all of the cars on the block of any value were broken into but rumor is that his Charger and Bentley were not touched.
i think his power is because he is extremely handsome, political, intelligent, just and powerful.
i say hi to him but most of this is based on stories in neighborhood or local media.
He beat a lot of indictments that were sealed but i checked out a bunch of criminal docket sites and fbi info and this guy beats everything. btw- its eddie burke III, grandson of ed burke according to court record.
here is just 1 of dozens of indictments against the german
LEXIS-NEXIS 2007
MUNICIPAL COURT OF PHILADELPHIA COUNTY - sent from commonwealth - sent from federal
Very interesting stuff. Great posts from above. After reading through these last few posts, i revitalized my search efforts: And like William "Billy Shamrock" Harding, I found "the German's" facebook page. Which seems to corroborate the various posts on the internet regarding him and his connection with K&A.
From what I gather he now appears as a legitimate business man, dealing with venture capitalism specially. He is seen showcasing his Irish-American heritage in several ways. Clothing, talks about Sinn Fein, donations his org makes to Irish Catholic parishes. He appears to now live in New York, around the Bensonhurst area, as most sources now claim (Some say he associates with the Genovese, whom have always had a connection to Philadelphia). All these are suggested and alluded to on his FB page. This guy sure is mysterious, and from what the FBI claim he is a dangerous (As you can sure tell from the above documents) and cunning gangster, with a public face.
Eddie "Irish Thunder" Burke III appears to be quite illusive, however, but it is good to know that he's the grandson of K&A alumni Eddie Burke. I figure he was more of the traditional gangster and muscle of the pair. He is said to be the current kingpin of the Northeast Philly rackets, operating in teh traditional K&A area.
William "Billy Shamrock" Harding (Jr or III, not sure) is someone I haven't quite figured out either. Said to have run a number of bars (silent partner in others I presume). Bars making great "criminal base of operations" makes it seem plausible. One source claimed he died circa 2007. Not much is known although he has/had a FB as well (public image?) under Bill Harding.
Anyways, at first I thought these three young figures were merely myths in Philadelphia, but the more time goes on, the more I'm convinced that they play some part in Philly's underworld. As to what degree I can't be sure, but information is scarce (which is probably favourable to them) but not nonexistent. Any more info or discussion is greatly appreciated.
Here's some information that I found someone tried to add on wikipedia. However it was surpressed/removed because there were no sources. It details Harding's (Who apparently has a decendant that operates bars in the Northeast, and is involved in the mob scene currently. He's been mentioned above).
The second part is about "The German", "Lefty", "Trip"
Quote
Involvement in the Philadelphia Mafia Conflicts When Angelo Bruno was made boss of what later became the Bruno faction or Philadelphia Italian Mafia in 1959, Edward "Billy Shamrock Harding" was by his side. In National Geographic's "Philly Mob" documentary he can be seen walking with Bruno at 1:44m in the first part. He is to the right of Bruno. It is one of his rare videos.
On March 21, 1980, Angelo Bruno was shot in front of his home. Oddly, driver John Stanfa was uninjured. This is said to be the factor that ultimately turned Harding against Stanfa. As a close friend of Bruno, Carlo Gambino and Paul Castellano, Harding believed that a man had a right to "bet or borrow" but that narcotics and extortion were inexcusable practices by "dego goons." Instead he supported a movement towards legitimization in business. In practice this oftentimes meant only shylocking to businesses that the debtor felt would be ultimately successful. Shy rates set by "shamrocks" in Northeast Philly, Irish Jersey towns and Kensington generally were set with equity sharemanship in mind. K&A's ultimate genius minds like Harding and "The German" realized the value of equity and by 2010 had a piece of essentially every Irish bar in NE Philly if not the whole city.
The "Narco" wing of K&A backed Stanfa during the violent mob wars between Stanfa and Merlino factions. Many had already fallen to federal indictments and the remnents were ultimately jailed or fell victim to mob assacination as was the case when, for example, in 2002, Ray "Long John" Martorano was gunned while he made his way to a doctor's office. Ray and former K&A figurehead John Berkery had been associates in the methamphetamine trade in the early-80s, ending with both of them being indicted. Martorano being convicted and Berkery fleeing to Ireland
Harding aligned his faction with the Irish Republican Brotherhood, The Westies and The Winter Hill Gang. He and Kevin Weeks of the Winter Hill Gang were instrumental suppliers of weapons for the Irish Republican Army's fight for independence from England. This Irish Republican view is supported by the large majority of Irish-Americans in the Northeast Corridor. In 2000 for example, New York City provided over one hundred times as much material and monetary support to the effort than did the Irish themselves. Harding had well established relationships with local media group owners, politicians and writers. Ed "Billy Shamrock" Harding and later undisputed Irish mafia boss and Merlino faction capo, "The German" were key members of campaigns for local, state and national office.
A review of old Facebook and candidate support sites and articles demonstrate, for example, that The German was featured on CNN and FoxNews as an Obama campaign spokesperson. An old Rendell for Governor site shows that he was the "Constituent Captain" for Port Richmond and Fishtown even though he did not reside there. As well, ultimately entrenched Mayor John Street called "The German" "The King of Kensington" in an address at McFadden's Pub. (Daily News, 1/03) As Irish gangs in the five points of NYC were catered to for votes, leaders of the K&A/IRB organization were also courted by union-strong democratic politicians.
During the Stanfa/Merlino wars, Harding re-aligned with Vincent "The Chin" Gigante, NYC Genovese boss and abandoned ties with the Gambino family. While he and other senior lieutenants did not get involved in the war, young members who initially despised the Young Turks and actually were reported to have embarrassed them in a late night Delaware Avenue brawl, ultimately supported Melino's rise to power.
The Inquirer and Miami Herald both report Merlino's close alliance with "Lefty and Thunder" ("Lefty" is another nickname for Shundler who allegedly guns and romances with his left hand very well but performs almost all other manual tasks as a right-hander) who he calls "mentors" in a interview after his release. Merlino is currently in a halfway house and was referred by Shundler to the care of a pastor who was an Irish Republican Brotherhood lieutenant in Chicago. Allegedly he avoided prosecution by entering a monastery just before indictments were filed (loophole at the time).
Merlino ultimately won and became a "GQ" gangster (National Geographic's "Philly Mob"). This afforded K&A an opportunity to expand their influence and provide hundreds of millions of dollars and thousands of weapons to the Irish Republican cause as a result of profits from profit sharing equity shares in Irish pubs and other businesses, lottery and other gambling rackets profits and shylocking efforts.
When Louis Theoreux came to town to film "Law and Disorder in Philadelphia" the city that had been nicknamed "Killadelphia" as a result of wars between the K&A and different Kensington gangs had their dirty laundry aired to the world. In one scene, an under detective officer known as Hunter who worked in Fishtown is seen joking with "The German" just before saying that he runs over 80 blocks.
When Mayor Nutter took office he redistricted the police and put more officers on the beat. Suddenly K&A members were at the top of FBI-Philadelphia Branch and Philadelphia's Police's Organized Crime/Gang task force (Lexis-Nexis). During one interview, Nutter stated that he felt "The German" was the most powerful mafia boss in Philadelphia after Merlino was imprisoned and Harding fell ill.
A review of Philadelphia Court dockets demonstrates that "The German" beat very serious charges after refusing to cooperate in any way with federal, state or local authorities with the help of a mysterious murder of a refile-magistrate for the commonwealth while he leaned out his car door for the morning paper at his suburban Doylestown home (Daily News/Star-Ledger). Initially facing numerous RICO, murder, arson and assault charges he got off with a disorderly persons charge. Irish Thunder and others however served time for charges levied against them. None of dozen or so federally indicted members and/or affiliates cooperated.
Recent Activity & Rise of K&A's "Irish Republican Brotherhood" Wing Sometime in the 1990s, William "Billy Shamrock" Harding (Edward Harding's descendant", came to be known as the boss of remnants of the Irish mob in Philadelphia. In short time he became an entrepreneur, financing and becoming partner in several bars and restaurants in Northeast Philadelphia.
After Harding's death in 2006, "The German", who was the underworld's fastest rising star and who had acted as "Street Boss" from 2005-2006 became the undisputed boss...arguably of the entire city. Ultimately he governed by proxy from Florida where he and Luigi "Baby Shanks" Minnochio (New England mafia boss) ran a number of lucrative satellite rackets (Daily News).
In the late 2000s The German left an enormous vacuum in the Philadelphia underworld, opting to concentrate on Sinn F�in diplomatic efforts (according to his Facebook), he moved to New York. Lexis-Nexis and local papers have photos from a dinner held for "The German" at Torisi's in NYC's Little Italy where he allegedly announced officially his passing of Irish operations to recently released co-hort Edward "Irish Thunder" Burke to claim the position he once held. Feds however believe this was a fake retirement and that Shundler instead operates as a executive member of the Genovesse family.
Edward Burke III (Descendant of orriginally K&A gangster Eddie Burke), is now known as the current boss in Irish Philadelphia.
During "The German" reign there was an extending of K&A influence and violent suppression of intergroup opposition.
In 2008, at a bar called McWhitney's the body of an alleged associate of Harding's, James "Seamus" O'Neill, was found beaten and wrapped in the basement.<ref>Chad Pradelli, David Henry and Erin O'Hearn. "Police search for bartender's killer." ABC Action News, 06 January 2008..Local underground rumours speculate that O'Neill was engaged in attempts to wrestle control of the neighborhood rackets from Shundler.
Shundler and Burke have allegedly systematically gained control of Irish neighborhood rackets from Baltimore to Montreal.
Just thought this information should be known. Don't really know what to make of it all. I do however find the msyter fascinating. And the same similarties seem to be popping up about these guys all over. It's not just propogated by one person a la the Cavanaugh "family" of Chicago.
Upon crossreferencing there alot of similarities and alot of stuff checks out. However, the information is convoluted at best. Just thought it should be known. What ya guys think?
interesting stuff, although definatly extremly convoluted. northeast philly still has a large irish population and there are probably some irish rackets, but alot of that made it seem like some super secret powerful org that works hand in hand with some of the most powerful mobsters and dominates irish org crime all over the place. also,Bradford "The German" Cox Shundler a capo under the merlino faction, wtf? still interesting, thanks for sharing.
I have lived in Bensonhurst, Brooklyn for 43 years where "The German" a.k.a. now as "Lefty" currently lives. He actually lives down the street and I have seen how he operates. He's a men want to be like and women want him type of personality. He has the most intimidating and sometimes scarey presence i have ever seen. During his first week here he slammed someone everyone thought was tough for hitting his gf. Three guys who beefed with him have either dissapeared without a trace or moved quickly. I have also heard that he directed some guys to kill some Russian mobsters he had an issue with.
A month ago all of South Brooklyn could view his arrest by the feds who I heard fired a concussion grenad into his house. The entire street was filled with armored vehicles and machine gun carrying federal agents and men in organized crime task force jackets early that morning and there were two choppers shinning lights on the property. the video is on youtube. rumor is that he was indicted on a slew of charges.
according to recent daily news and the post online articles as well as what people in the neighborhood say, he was acting head of the irish mob but gave that position to burke and is now the consigliere of the Genovesse Crime family.
in the biographies of vincent gigante, paul castellano, roy demeo and john gotti, jr. there are references to former k&a boss harding as well as "The German" and Edward Seamus Burke III. K&A alligned with the Genovese family after John Stanfa was appointed head of the Gambino affiliated Philadelphia Bruno family by the Gambino leadership and supported by the commission. Harding hated that Stanfa had two narcotics charges and saw Gotti as the downfall of rackets. it was during this time that harding reached out to vincent "chin" gigante. the k&a gang was split at the seams.
some k&a were dealing narcotics and a biker faction of the gang that harding hated for being classless backed stanfa and ultimtely all got thrown in jail in a meth ring bust.
the younger members and upcoming associates like Irish Thunder and Lefty supported the Merlino faction. Burke was allegedly a trigger man in attempted murder of stanfa during rush hour.
this is according to the books.
trystan as he is known in bensonhurst is probably the most powerful person i have ever seen reside here. he doesnt work here but has no problem enforcing brutal vigilante justice on people most people feel deserve it. he is respected by everyone around here.
but i have heard that in areas where he works if customers getting shylock fail to pay he makes them burn down their houses and pay with the homeowner's insurance.
two days ago all of the cars on the block of any value were broken into but rumor is that his Charger and Bentley were not touched.
i think his power is because he is extremely handsome, political, intelligent, just and powerful.
i say hi to him but most of this is based on stories in neighborhood or local media.
Very interesting info man but the Genovese family having an Irish consiglieri and an Irish "capo" in the Merlino faction? I highly doubt it. Can someone post the link to the clip of Bruno and the Irishman?
Very interesting info man but the Genovese family having an Irish consiglieri and an Irish "capo" in the Merlino faction? I highly doubt it. Can someone post the link to the clip of Bruno and the Irishman?
Yeah as a very interested researcher, and someone familiar with LCN... honestly I don't buy any of that shit. Altho where there is smoke there is fire. Other sources claim "The German" is linked with the Genovese somehow.
My theory? The Irish captain in the Merlino faction...I highly doubt that as well. It's probably an "outsider view" or local media hype moniker. More likely, he was a high-ranking associate of Merlino's who handled a handful of joint ventures. Several people claim they saw the German meeting with Merlino & Co in several bars in the Northeast years ago.
Genovese Consiglieri? Nah. I tend to think if anything he's involved in the corporate/political machination in New York now. And does the wind-and dine thing with top Genovese guys. Socializing. Backroom deals that sorta shit. Just a crook with a businessman facade now.
I know the two are linked somehow tho, as multiple 1st hand account and sources have corroborated. I'm pretty sure whoever wrote all that, have no real idea of Mob structure and tradition. And "outsider view" mistake I'lla ttribute that shit to.
interesting stuff, although definatly extremly convoluted. northeast philly still has a large irish population and there are probably some irish rackets, but alot of that made it seem like some super secret powerful org that works hand in hand with some of the most powerful mobsters and dominates irish org crime all over the place. also, "The German" a capo under the merlino faction, wtf? still interesting, thanks for sharing.
Yeah, that ruling Irish crime on the Eastern Seaboard shit is a major, impossible stretch. Prolly just some hype, or an effort for people to grasp the transient nature of the German. With the exception of the German, and his politico-corporate ventures, financing, and endeavors; I think the current Irish racketeers in the Northeast are small-time at best. Not conspiracy worth stuff. Most likely common interests and coincident brough some of these seemingly isolated figures and groups into alignment.
Although, the guy goes on to say "Harding aligned his faction with the Irish Republican Brotherhood, The Westies and The Winter Hill Gang. He and Kevin Weeks of the Winter Hill Gang were instrumental suppliers of weapons for the Irish Republican Army's fight for independence from England." This kind of transregional connection is not unheard of.; Think Appalachian Meeting or the transregionalism of the gangster on Boardwalk Empire. Members of these groups could have transient marginal connections. But that would be the end of it. Just connections.
My guess?
*Edward Harding - People say he was in with Bruno. And was the mentor to "The German" and Eddie "Irish Thunder" Burke. He died in 2007 sources claim
*"The German" - After rising in Philly he is now semi-legitimate business man, who has joint ventures with members of the Genovese family (Legitimate and otherwise). Most likely through resideual Genovese interests in Philly and their link with Edward Harding, who was linked with Bruno. Figure he moved to New York to further legitimate enterprises.
*Eddie "Irish Thunder" Burke III - More of muscle, likely when "The German" was coming up. Is the major street guy in Philly's Northeast. After the power-vacuum that "The German" left. Is apparently the grandson of originally K&A crook Eddie Burke.
*William "Billy Shamrock" Harding - Decendant of Edward Harding. Mostly legitimate running a string of bar's in the Northeast, where he most likely dabbles in gangsterism, using these as fronts and base of operations like the Gemeni Lounge or the Sunbrite Bar.
It's quite a compelling mystery for sure. THis is my take on it
Bear in mind that the media randomly assigns terms like "capo" and "boss" to gangsters who are prominent. They don't use the terms precisely like we do.
what part of philly do you live .. phila still has a huge irish population they lost kensington juniata park and greys ferry but they still have mayfair,tacony expect princenton ave which is an italian strong hold ,holmesburg, morell park, somerton, bustleton, parkwood,fishtown, pennsport,rhawnhurst,burholme fox chase
Yeah I heard of Fishtown being particularly notable, amongst the guys mentioned in my previous post
Originally Posted By: Ivan
Bear in mind that the media randomly assigns terms like "capo" and "boss" to gangsters who are prominent. They don't use the terms precisely like we do.
My thoughts exactly. I think this is where most of the misattributation of influential associates as actual -members- of the Mafia comes from.
When Louis Theoreux came to town to film "Law and Disorder in Philadelphia" the city that had been nicknamed "Killadelphia" as a result of wars between the K&A and different Kensington gangs had their dirty laundry aired to the world. In one scene, an under detective officer known as Hunter who worked in Fishtown is seen joking with "The German" just before saying that he runs over 80 blocks.
I've watched it and never saw Hunter talk with "the German ". Saw him speak about "Red" but not about Shundler.
Very interesting info man but the Genovese family having an Irish consiglieri and an Irish "capo" in the Merlino faction? I highly doubt it. Can someone post the link to the clip of Bruno and the Irishman?
Yeah as a very interested researcher, and someone familiar with LCN... honestly I don't buy any of that shit. Altho where there is smoke there is fire. Other sources claim "The German" is linked with the Genovese somehow.
My theory? The Irish captain in the Merlino faction...I highly doubt that as well. It's probably an "outsider view" or local media hype moniker. More likely, he was a high-ranking associate of Merlino's who handled a handful of joint ventures. Several people claim they saw the German meeting with Merlino & Co in several bars in the Northeast years ago.
Genovese Consiglieri? Nah. I tend to think if anything he's involved in the corporate/political machination in New York now. And does the wind-and dine thing with top Genovese guys. Socializing. Backroom deals that sorta shit. Just a crook with a businessman facade now.
I know the two are linked somehow tho, as multiple 1st hand account and sources have corroborated. I'm pretty sure whoever wrote all that, have no real idea of Mob structure and tradition. And "outsider view" mistake I'lla ttribute that shit to.
interesting stuff, although definatly extremly convoluted. northeast philly still has a large irish population and there are probably some irish rackets, but alot of that made it seem like some super secret powerful org that works hand in hand with some of the most powerful mobsters and dominates irish org crime all over the place. also,Bradford "The German" Cox Shundler a capo under the merlino faction, wtf? still interesting, thanks for sharing.
Yeah, that ruling Irish crime on the Eastern Seaboard shit is a major, impossible stretch. Prolly just some hype, or an effort for people to grasp the transient nature of the German. With the exception of the German, and his politico-corporate ventures, financing, and endeavors; I think the current Irish racketeers in the Northeast are small-time at best. Not conspiracy worth stuff. Most likely common interests and coincident brough some of these seemingly isolated figures and groups into alignment.
Although, the guy goes on to say "Harding aligned his faction with the Irish Republican Brotherhood, The Westies and The Winter Hill Gang. He and Kevin Weeks of the Winter Hill Gang were instrumental suppliers of weapons for the Irish Republican Army's fight for independence from England." This kind of transregional connection is not unheard of.; Think Appalachian Meeting or the transregionalism of the gangster on Boardwalk Empire. Members of these groups could have transient marginal connections. But that would be the end of it. Just connections.
My guess?
*Edward Harding - People say he was in with Bruno. And was the mentor to "The German" and Eddie "Irish Thunder" Burke. He died in 2007 sources claim
*"The German" - After rising in Philly he is now semi-legitimate business man, who has joint ventures with members of the Genovese family (Legitimate and otherwise). Most likely through resideual Genovese interests in Philly and their link with Edward Harding, who was linked with Bruno. Figure he moved to New York to further legitimate enterprises.
*Eddie "Irish Thunder" Burke III - More of muscle, likely when "The German" was coming up. Is the major street guy in Philly's Northeast. After the power-vacuum that Shundler left. Is apparently the grandson of originally K&A crook Eddie Burke.
*William "Billy Shamrock" Harding - Decendant of Edward Harding. Mostly legitimate running a string of bar's in the Northeast, where he most likely dabbles in gangsterism, using these as fronts and base of operations like the Gemeni Lounge or the Sunbrite Bar.
It's quite a compelling mystery for sure. THis is my take on it
thanks for the link man. I agree that the media often refers to high level associates as "Capo's" and often anyone involved be it an associate or soldier is referred to as a "mob boss".
I agree that the media often refers to high level associates as "Capo's" and often anyone involved be it an associate or soldier is referred to as a "mob boss".
Also the highest ranking gangster in a region or town usually gets this. The two most prominent examples I can think of off the top of my head are Anthony Spilotro and Lenine Strollo, who were called the "boss" or even "godfather" of Las Vegas and Youngstown, respectively. They were both soldiers.
I doubt that any of these guys exist. This thread is one of the top ten results whenever you search for their name. Their names also show up on other mob message boards. But there's not a single news article talking about these guys or whatever remains of the Irish mob in Philly. This is like Charles Herbert Gotti.
Charles Herbert Gotti is the supposed bastard child of John Gotti or something. He doesn't exist. There was a page on wikipedia for a while describing him as some mythical super mobster. People would read that and then write about him elsewhere and make it seem like he actually existed. However, there aren't any news stories about the guy so it's obviously a fake.
That's what I think about when I see all of these supposed Irish kingpins of Philly. Someone made them up, people write about them on message boards, and then write about them here. If there was any truth to them, even if they were small time, it would be in a newspaper somewhere. Hell, George Anastasia would have done a mob talk on them by now.
There's a problem with your theory. These people do exist. They're not just some literary invention. Now their level of involvement or notoriety is debatable
As for them hyped up to be super-mobsters. Yeah some writers do take that liberty, extrapolating assumptions. Probably very nutty.
"The German's Facebook": http://www.facebook.com/Jesse3James?sk=photos A self proclaimed businessman. He supposedly is involved in several ventures, companies in consultations. However seems to hav e acertain grit about himself.
He appears to have several ties to Irish Republican organizations, and the Philly, New York and Florida areas
Edward Harding's dead. SO no facebook there. And Burke prolly wouldn't have one.
I take all the stories on various message boards with a very big grain of salt. I don't really know the motive someone would trump up the underworld reputations of themselve via a bunch of sock-puppets online. It serves no purprose. And to put the rumour out there that he was a gangster would hurt Shundler's reputation I'm sure. Also, if you can take his word for it italiancutz apparently knows of him. What would be really helpful is a reliable source, to obtain the Lexis-Newxis information, which so many people seem to source, on various message boards.
I don't know. But that's what this thread is about. To boil down all the bullshit until the truth is revealed
You wanna see some more fake mobsters, check out that chart of the Milwaukee family that's been circulating for a few years. Some of the people on the list don't even show up on Google (or they didn't when I was actually dumb enough to take the chart at face value and searched for info on them).
They must be pretty goddamn circumspect gangsters if the internet doesn't know they exist.
I have lived in Bensonhurst, Brooklyn for 43 years where "The German" a.k.a. now as "Lefty" currently lives. He actually lives down the street and I have seen how he operates. He's a men want to be like and women want him type of personality. He has the most intimidating and sometimes scarey presence i have ever seen. During his first week here he slammed someone everyone thought was tough for hitting his gf. Three guys who beefed with him have either dissapeared without a trace or moved quickly. I have also heard that he directed some guys to kill some Russian mobsters he had an issue with.
A month ago all of South Brooklyn could view his arrest by the feds who I heard fired a concussion grenad into his house. The entire street was filled with armored vehicles and machine gun carrying federal agents and men in organized crime task force jackets early that morning and there were two choppers shinning lights on the property. the video is on youtube. rumor is that he was indicted on a slew of charges.
according to recent daily news and the post online articles as well as what people in the neighborhood say, he was acting head of the irish mob but gave that position to burke and is now the consigliere of the Genovesse Crime family.
How the hell did I miss this? Who is the consigliere of the Genovese crime family?
You wanna see some more fake mobsters, check out that chart of the Milwaukee family that's been circulating for a few years. Some of the people on the list don't even show up on Google (or they didn't when I was actually dumb enough to take the chart at face value and searched for info on them).
They must be pretty goddamn circumspect gangsters if the internet doesn't know they exist.
There's also a bogus St. Louis chart. And a Kansas City chart that lists a whole bunch of names but certainly not all of them are made guys.
In all 50 states there are some italian bookies who gives a shit
Word. You got a point. Pretty sure there's a bunch of small-time guys operating in a vestigial manner, in the old strongholds. Viable or extinct is a matter of opinion. I'm sure some remnant and "glorified crews" would argue about their independence and credibility.
Originally Posted By: Ivan
They must be pretty goddamn circumspect gangsters if the internet doesn't know they exist.
Just because there ain't press coverage don't mean there isn't veracity. Would you want to write a risky story about a bunch of seemingly unconnected hoodlums?
If there is any truth to any of this (Which is hard to see through he convolution). These Irish-American "toughguys" from Philly, are probably just that. Too loosely connected to be considered anything really big and newsworthy. Probably jsut a handful of prominent figures in Philly's Northeast with some level of common interaction.
Remember, the mafia was a myth before Valachi, opened the hood and let everyone have a look at the engine. It all boys down to coverage and a good story.
Alright, so these people might exist. I doubt they're tied to OC in any significant way though. In this day and age, people involved in OC tend to stick out. If they're just wannabes, I could understand that. If they're anything more than that, I can't see how they don't end up in a newspaper or on George Anastasia's radar.
I don't buy the IRA connections either. There's not much of an IRA around these days. The Provisionals (what most people mean when they say the IRA) have disarmed. Most of the top guys are involved in community jobs, paid for by UK gov't money. The remaining groups that haven't disarmed are the Real IRA, the Continuity IRA, and the INLA (Irish National Liberation Army). For the most part, they act like OC does in the US. Shake down businesses, smuggle goods over the border, counterfeit goods, etc. They say they don't allow drugs in the community but I doubt that. They don't allow other dealers in their community but they'll allow theirs.
As far as US-IRA connections, they were never too deep. They did a lot of fundraising through NORAID, for sure. And some guns crossed the Atlantic. A lot of that was done by IRA operatives though, not Irish gangs. The Winter Hill gang did a one time thing sending over some guns. For the most part, though, the PIRA got the vast majority of its guns and bombs from Libya.
They must be pretty goddamn circumspect gangsters if the internet doesn't know they exist.
Just because there ain't press coverage don't mean there isn't veracity.
I'm not saying that they don't show up in media coverage. I'm saying they don't show up in Google searches at all, which comb through government records. There were some people on that Milwaukee Fantasy Team list that didn't show up on anything.
the irish have taken such a beating in terms of losing thier rackets for a while now, probably due just as much to cultural assimilation as other ethnic groups pushing them out. thats why this topic is so interesting to me because from what i gather philly still has many predominatly irish neihborhoods. look at hell hitchen in new york, with the loss of the irish majority, the rackets soon followed, not to mention the nutjobs that were in charge of them seems like boston is the last place with any form of organization left with the remnants of the winter hil gang. also the west end gang in montreal still dabbles from what i gather. anybody have any idea of anything irish going on in or near chicago?
Yeah I'd say Boston is the last bastion of Irish Organized Crime in any traditionally recognizable form. Philly still apparently has a huge concentration in the Northeast still. NYC's Irish areas like Woodlawn, and Woodside, and Bay RIdge, are most likely settling down in terms of Irish-American population. The Kitchen is almost all gentrified now.
Chicago? Nothing to be heard from that front. Besides fiction. Cavanaugh family (Which has been proved false) and the Chicago Code. Think Irish-American crime there is pretty much dead, as an independant and viable force. Most likely any mick goons have assimilated themselves into what's left of the Outfit.
Originally Posted By: moolou
Alright, so these people might exist. I doubt they're tied to OC in any significant way though. In this day and age, people involved in OC tend to stick out. If they're just wannabes, I could understand that. If they're anything more than that, I can't see how they don't end up in a newspaper or on George Anastasia's radar.
I don't buy the IRA connections either. There's not much of an IRA around these days. The Provisionals (what most people mean when they say the IRA) have disarmed. Most of the top guys are involved in community jobs, paid for by UK gov't money. The remaining groups that haven't disarmed are the Real IRA, the Continuity IRA, and the INLA (Irish National Liberation Army). For the most part, they act like OC does in the US. Shake down businesses, smuggle goods over the border, counterfeit goods, etc. They say they don't allow drugs in the community but I doubt that. They don't allow other dealers in their community but they'll allow theirs.
As far as US-IRA connections, they were never too deep. They did a lot of fundraising through NORAID, for sure. And some guns crossed the Atlantic. A lot of that was done by IRA operatives though, not Irish gangs. The Winter Hill gang did a one time thing sending over some guns. For the most part, though, the PIRA got the vast majority of its guns and bombs from Libya.
Maybe it's not newsworthy. Or there is little substance, or a link can't be proven. LCN news get's published and can be found easily because they're a much larger organization in most cases. And their is great interest in the stories, as Italian-American gangsters have been heavily romanticized over the years. So that could account for lack of press. Also teh LCN is a concrete organization with a top-down heirachy. Irish mobs don't work that way. It's more like a loose network, with several dominant figures.
And Anastasia seems to focus on Philadelphia's LCN so I doubt he'd be interested in tacking down rumours or a loose confederation of guys, who can't number more than 15,
And as for teh IRA connection. I'm not too sure about that. There are several IRA wings in operation. And the relationship between them in complex. SHundler could have ties to several of them. Not just the Provos, who've disarmed. Shundler has conenctions to Sinn Fein, which is noted as being an Irish Republican organization. Much like the IRA, who are more militant. He is said to be deeply involved int he IRish Republican cause. I think this tie is where the rumours of "Irish mob" activity is born. People have claimed these guys bill themselves under the facade of the Irish Republican Brotherhood. Which is noted on one of Shundler's sites.
I believe someone posted Shundler's court documents or something. I'm not too sure about their credibility but it seems to add credence.
There's definitely something going on. Whether it's traditional OC, or some kinda politico-criminal fundraising or legitimate business, it's hard to say. Altho I think there is definitely a connection.
George Anastasia has done features on Philly criminals that aren't LCN. The Pagans and a few black drug organizations at least.
I feel like Irish crooks would get a fair amount of media coverage if they existed. There's definitely an interest there, both in historical figures and fiction.
Sinn Fein is the political wing of the Provisionals. A lot of the leading figures in SF are either reputed to be members of the PIRA, like Gerry Adams, or were totally known to be members, like Martin McGuinness. With their military wing dissolved, Sinn Fein is just a political party at this point. They probably do some fundraising in the States but they're not a criminal organization.
The remaining IRAs are marginal in terms of influence and membership. Any international reach they have would be to the UK or maybe Spain. A lot of Irish criminals seem to end up in Marbella. American ties to the various IRAs were dwindling as the peace process made actual progress. 9/11 really put an end to it, though.
What are these sites you talk about? Care to share a link?
What are these sites you talk about? Care to share a link?
They are mentioned on several boards similar to this one. Most likely by locals, whom have first hand knowledge, apparently. No real documented news sources, but...
Several threads on www.network64.com mention these guys. Be they posts or individual threads.
And somewhere on streetgangs.com there was mention of them
Anyways those are just a few I recall. Info isn't authorative. But it's there. No if these were all written by the same screenname it could all easily be debunked. Otherwise, if youw ant to consider it, a motive for creating a bunch of fake account across the web to diseminate false informationd oesn't seem practical or any real gain in it for the perpetrator. Which makes me believe that there could be some truth to these various claims. However, the extent of their involvement with OC is questionable and clearly not concrete. Where this is smoke there is fire though, as I always say.
You claim to know a lot about LCN and know nothing. There has always been an Irish capo in the Bruno family mob as there was and is in the New York Gambino family after the Castellano and Westies agreement made over dinner at Tommasso's in Brooklyn.
Anyone who knows anything about LCN knows that there are all different ethnic and national groups that makeup the underworld.
Movies like Goodfellas with the 100% Sicilian stuff is absurd.
First of all, very few of the Merlino crew were ever made. When the Young Turks went to war with the Commission assigned Stanfa led mafia, they needed help from the K&A as well as other gangs. The Young Turks in exchange promised positions of prominence to leaders of these factions who helped them in the war.
Also, there are many many many officers in mafia families that were never "made". In fact, the majority of the mob's leadership right now IS NOT MADE. Many of the most cunning and powerful recognize that all participating in these criminal organization rituals does is make them subject to RICO statutes.
John Stanfa (former Philly boss), Ligambi and former boss Natale were NEVER MADE. Out of the last five Philly bosses (including current boss Steven Mazzone) only Merlino was a made man.
Its time to stop viewing the mob through Hollywood glasses and get a real understanding of LCN. Watching mob movies doesnt make you an expert.
How wouldd you know if this is fake...I think the judgemental nature of people on this thread who really have no idea is rather humorous if not pathetic.
Again...ignorant sayings by whomever said they dont believe in the IRA connection. Its not up for your opinion...its a fact. Who do you think armed the IRA? There are many many many books about the Irish mafia and NORAD. Also, if you want to learn more about the Philly, New York and Boston connections to the IRA read Kevin Weeks book that is entirely about these ties.
Get informed please before some of you people make comments. Otherwise you waste the time of those of us here who are actually doing some researcher and confusing those looking for good info.
This was not cut for lack of sources...it was written by George Anastasia. It was temporarily removed because someone the article makes reference to is alledging its liable.
I like your style AmericanCrime. Very intelligent and professional and I also thank you for providing sources of information! I hope the rest on this thread can tone down the speculative nonsense.
I dont get why people are making the assumption that the members of any possible Irish group are restricted to "irish neighborhoods" and "irish rackets". Im sure they do business with all different types of people wherever they can.
Smurph, I don´t know what you are talking about! No Irish guy cen ever be made into Cosa Nostra. Don´t you know the rules? What makes you believe Irish guys held capo positions within the Italian Mafia? No informants have ever mentioned this. Neither has the FBI or any other police enforcment. So where did you get this from? And one more thing, please use the quote boxes when repllying to posts. Easier to understand what you are talking about, even if it´s rubbish.
I think it's safe to say Smurph is a bullshit artist of the highest order. And it's probably intentional. Nobody can be that clueless. He's looking for attention so just ignore him.
Im not a bs artist Ivy League...test me. Ask me something. I never insulted you and you never answered my question. Upon what reliable information are you basing anything you say?
You are being an absolutist and one that is completely wrong. Call the FBI's media department and ask them. Or watch this documentary or many many others that detail the close working relationship between Irish and italians.
Have you ever heard of Henry Hill? Danny Greene? Whitey Bulger? Patrick Nee? Kevin Weeks? The Westies?
One of many many many references on the internet about non-Italians being "made". John Gotti wasnt even a full blooded Italian. Wow you guys are off.
Made man From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia For other uses, see Made man (disambiguation). It has been suggested that American Mafia induction rituals be merged into this article or section. (Discuss) Proposed since January 2012.
A made man, also known as a made guy, man of honor, or Mafioso (plural: Mafiosi), is someone who has been officially inducted into the Sicilian or American Mafia (Cosa Nostra). They may also be referred to by some as a goodfella or wiseguy. However, that would be inexact, as those terms can also be used in reference to non-made members.[citation needed] Contents [hide]
Traditionally, in order to become a made member of the Mafia, the inductee had to be a male of full Southern Italian (preferably Sicilian) descent. Today, it is believed that this requirement has been loosened so that males of half Italian descent through their father's line can also be inducted. Other sources say that a half-Italian through his mother's line can also be acceptable if he has an Italian surname.[1] Because many third and fourth generation Italian Americans have non-Italian ancestry (due to the mixing of ethnic groups commonplace in the United States), having an Italian surname seems to have become the prerequisite for Mafia membership.
Some examples of made members who are not of full Italian descent include John A. Gotti, whose mother was of Russian descent, and "Cadillac" Frank Salemme, former boss of the Patriarca family in Providence, Rhode Island, who was half Irish.
An associate of a crime family who was in the police force or attended a police academy cannot become a made member of the mafia.[citation needed] For example, DeMeo crew member Henry Borelli could never become a made man in the Gambino family, since he had taken the New York City Police Department entrance exam in the early 1970s,[citation needed] and Bonanno underboss Salvatore Vitale was only made because his brother-in-law and future boss Joseph Massino covered up his previous work as a corrections officer.[2] However, an exception to this rule includes Scarfo crime family capo Ron Previte, who was a former member of the Philadelphia police force.[3]
Before being inducted, a potential made man is required to carry out a contract killing; any murders committed for personal reasons "do not count" in this respect.[4] Committing one's first contracted killing is referred to as "making your bones."[4] Until the 1980s, one only had to be involved in a murder (such as driving the getaway car) in order to fulfill the requirements. It was not until the Donnie Brasco trials, which revealed that the Mafia was about to make undercover FBI agent Joe Pistone, that a rule was made that potential inductees must actually perform a killing.
When introducing one made man to another, the phrase "a friend of ours"[5] is used, indicating that he is a member and business can be discussed openly with him. If the person being introduced is an associate or civilian to whom business should not be mentioned, the phrase "a friend of mine" is used instead. Made men are the only ones who can rise through the ranks of Cosa Nostra, from soldier to caporegime ("capo" for short), "consigliere," "underboss" and "boss".
1. Everyone knows the mob has associates of various ethnic backgrounds, including Irish. These associates hold various levels of influence and clout. But a non-Italian can never be "made," i.e. formally inducted into an LCN family; much less attain the rank of capo. That's Mafia 101 stuff right there.
2. Nobody said a 100% Italian blood requirement has always been enforced across the board, though it may have been in the past to a large extent. But there has never been a member who did not have some Italian blood.
3. The partnership between the Gambino family and the Westies is ancient history. Hell, the Westies themselves are ancient history. And even when the Westies were working for the Gambinos, Jimmy Coonan was not a member or capo. They simply got to use the Gambino name in their rackets and, in return, paid 10% tribute.
4. John Stanfa and Joseph Ligambi are both "made" members of the Philadelphia LCN. Ralph Natale was a "made" member before he flipped. Law enforcement says so. Other former Philadelphia LCN members say so. George Anastasia says so.
My only question for you is, have you taken your medication today?
Originally Posted By: Smurph
Upon what reliable information are you basing anything you say?
Here is about the Westies and Gambino agreement. Do some more research and you will find that the FBI considered Mickey Featherstone to be a Gambino capo. He ran an all Irish crew a.k.a. "The Westies". As with any other crew, they were free to use the bosses name in exchange for 10-15% of the crew's earnings. Featherstone was charged under RICO with other Gambino captains.
maybe if you make ten posts in a row people will start taking you more seriously around here ivy on a more serious note, sc please axe this jokester asap!
I think what Smurph was trying to get across is that there has ben associates whom have achieved a level of power, influence and clout that rivals the "real capos". Sort of functioning as unofficial wings of a LCN family. It's a matter of semantics. Obviously, not everyone in law enforcement (especially at that time) was aware of the nuances of the LCN. Which is the reason in some reports. Generic terms like lieutenant, kingpin get thrown around (the media is guilty of this as wel). I don't find it impossible, that on one of these reports someone might have suggested a very influential Irish gangster with deep ties to Bruno as a "capo".
We know that the standard to be made is to have some Italian blood on your father's side. Rules have been getting less and less stringent these days. Don't think Smurph ever suggested persons of non-Italian ancestry were ever made. Only that non-Italians associates over the years have achieved a status that superseded a made man or a traditional capo, in terms of influence.
Why is it so impossible to believe, that a character like Shundler has forged a bond so strong with the top guys in Genovese, that media or LEO can mis attribute him as an Irish "captain", due to his close ties with the Italians and possible his own muscle.
LCN is a money making machine. And everyone is invited to partake in the spoils. As long as the family get an extra slice working with you, I'm sure being made only matters to the Italian cugines street guys who want to move up and the times when the cultural protocols that go along with made guy status (Which these days aren't like they used to be so anyway) has to be enforced.
Smurph's apparently from Philly. And I'll take that information at face value over any doubts that a non-local would have due to posturing and debating wording on rank terms. To get back on topic: All signs point to these guys being very real and involved in OC and working alongside the Italians.
good post, but dont try to stick up for the guy. there are ways to make a point without being a jerk. any knowledge the guy might have isnt gonna be taken seriously acting irrational. by the way. this is probably my favorite thread, so job well done sir!
I think what Smurph was trying to get across is that there has ben associates whom have achieved a level of power, influence and clout that rivals the "real capos". Sort of functioning as unofficial wings of a LCN family. It's a matter of semantics. Obviously, not everyone in law enforcement (especially at that time) was aware of the nuances of the LCN. Which is the reason in some reports. Generic terms like lieutenant, kingpin get thrown around (the media is guilty of this as wel). I don't find it impossible, that on one of these reports someone might have suggested a very influential Irish gangster with deep ties to Bruno as a "capo".
We know that the standard to be made is to have some Italian blood on your father's side. Rules have been getting less and less stringent these days. Don't think Smurph ever suggested persons of non-Italian ancestry were ever made. Only that non-Italians associates over the years have achieved a status that superseded a made man or a traditional capo, in terms of influence.
Why is it so impossible to believe, that a character like Shundler has forged a bond so strong with the top guys in Genovese, that media or LEO can mis attribute him as an Irish "captain", due to his close ties with the Italians and possible his own muscle.
LCN is a money making machine. And everyone is invited to partake in the spoils. As long as the family get an extra slice working with you, I'm sure being made only matters to the Italian cugines street guys who want to move up and the times when the cultural protocols that go along with made guy status (Which these days aren't like they used to be so anyway) has to be enforced.
Smurph's apparently from Philly. And I'll take that information at face value over any doubts that a non-local would have due to posturing and debating wording on rank terms. To get back on topic: All signs point to these guys being very real and involved in OC and working alongside the Italians.
Well, call it semantics if you want, but he should know that him labeling a guy the the "capo" of a family's Irish wing or whatever is going to raise eyebrows. Everyone is familiar with Joe Watts, for instance, who some said would have been a capo had he been Italian. But nobody is actually saying he is a capo or has capo-status.
Some of the pictures here , are so spooky and tough, my heart Dixie, but will say ! And you can take this to the fucken bank ! There are alot of idiots in the world ! And belong to a ah Wannabe Tribe , or such in life and they are nothing ! Unh said
Iw asn't particularly sticking up for Smurph. I agree he coulda used more tact. But it seems alot of people here or so quick to dismiss these guys, as mere myths or as inventions of a daydreamer. So it's kind of frustrating to hear all teh negative comments. But anyways, I'm just looking for the truth really. There seems to be something beneath the surface.
Some research demonstrates that many former and current mafia "made men" and non-made men who are less than half italian ross to ranking positions:
TO START WITH, FIVE OF THE ORIGINAL LA COSA NOSTRA MEN TO BE MADE AND WHO SERVED ON THE COMMISSION WERE JEWISH!! THEY HELPED TO FORMALIZE AND DETERMINE ONE RITUAL TO BE USED IN MAKING MEN THROUGHOUT THE COUNTRY. THEIR NAMES WERE MEYER LANSKY, BUGSY SIEGEL, LOUIS BUCHALTER, DUTCH SCHULTZ AND ABNER ZWELLMAN. TIMOTHY MURPHY AN IRISH MEN ALSO SERVED ON THE COMMISSION.
1) RUBY STEIN (JEWISH-MADE GAMBINO SOLDIER) 2) CHRIS DEMEO (JEWISH...CHANGED NAME FROM ROSENBURG...SOLDIER IN ROY DEMEO'S CREW...ASSUMED HIS SURNAME IN ORDER TO BE MADE) 3) JOHN GOTTI (LESS THAN HALF) 4) JOHN GOTTI, JR. (LESS THAN 1/3) 5) Ron Previto (Bruno family turncoat. Former cop. Greek, Albanian and Italian. Capo in charge of Atlantic City Rackets) 6) Anthony Rabbio (Less than 1/2 - Bonnano Consig 7) Tino Fiumura (Current Genovesse Street Boss - almost all Irish and Greek) 8) Carmine Persico (Jailes Columbo Boss - Less than 1/2) 9) Alphonse Persico (Was acting Columbo Boss when brother Carmine went to jail. Now also incarcerated) 10) Benjamin Franz (Current Columbo Underboss - German and Scottish) 11) Ralph Perna (Luchese NJ Boss - Assumed His Old Boss Johnathan Perna's last name to be made) 12) Daniel "The Lion" Leo (Soon to Be Released Former Genovesse Boss. Mostly Albanian) 13) Peter Gotti (former Gambino boss - less than 1/2) 14) Jonathan Barbato (Genovess Capo who's father allegedly changed their last name from Feldman) 15) Patsy Papello (Genovese Capo - Mostly Irish) 16) Matty Ianello (Genovese Capo - about 1/2) 17) Frank Gagi (Gambino Capo - <.5) 18) Steven Crea (Luchese Boss) - Half Ukranian)
Further, there were recently interviews with Dominick Cirillo formerly a made soldier in the Roy Demeo crew; Ron Previto (less than half, former cop, Capo and head of NJ Operations for Bruno family) and Phil Leonetti (former Nick Scarfo underboss).
THEY ALL SAY THAT THE RULES ARE ALL CHANGED NOW. THE COMMISSION DOESNT MEET, FAMILIES ARE RUN INCREASINGLY BY GOVERNING PANELS, TOP EARNERS DO NOT WANT TO BE "MADE" OR RECEIVE POSITIONS OF TITLE FOR FEAR OF PROSECUTION. THEY ALSO ALL STATE THAT THE MOPB FAMILIES ARE ALL ABOUT MAKING MONEY AND STRUCTURE THEMSELVES ACCORDINGLY.
THEY SAID THE RULE IN THE LATE EIGHTIES AND NINETIES WAS THAT YOU COULD BE MADE EVEN IF NOT ITALIAN IF YOU CHANGED YOUR SURNAME. TODAY THEY SAY ANYONE WHO IS WHITE, A TOP EARNER AND A GOOD MANAGER CAN BECOME A CAPO OR EVEN ULTIMATELY A BOSS AND FREQUENTLY DO. MOST ARE NOT NECCESARILY MADE BUT SOME ARE.
DOMINICK CIRILLO STATES THAT THE GAMBINO FAMILY STOPPED A FORMAL CEREMONY FOR MADE MEN AFTER A LIST OF RECENTLY MADE MEMBERS OF THAT FAMILY WAS FOUND BY DETECTIVES IN JOHN GOTTI, JR.'S BASEMENT.
WITH REFERENCE TO THE GENOVESSE FAMILY IN PARTICULAR CIRILLO STATED THAT THEY CARE LEAST AMONG FAMILIES ABOUT A PERSONS HERITAGE AND MOST ABOUT THEIR COMPETENCE. HE STATES THAT THAT IS WHY THEY ARE FARING BETTER THAN OTHER FAMILIES AND ARE CONSIDERED THE ROLLS ROYCE OF LA COSA NOSTRA FAMILIES.
I'm not trying to be a jerk, but i have spent my whole life in these neighborhoods and have seen with my own eyes how drastically things have changed.
I guess I get aggravated when people who havent lived in the enviornment stick to old rules or rules that never were but were presented as such in movies.
Im just encouraging everyone to look at the mob as an evolving and changing organization. The only way an organization like La Cosa Nostra has been able to prevail in such an enormously diverse and transient city is by evolving with the times.
I think you fail to distinguish the made guys with the none made guys. For example, Rudy Stein was not a made guy, but an associate with the mob. Sorry, but your list is terribly wrong. And it seems that your claims are simply made up. Who are some of the guys you mentioned? Frank Gagi, Anthony Rabbio, Benjamin Franz??? To my knowledge, Dom Cirillo has never said the things you claim he has. To whom did he say that? I find it hard to take you seriously unless you name your sources properly.
I think you fail to distinguish the made guys with the none made guys. For example, Rudy Stein was not a made guy, but an associate with the mob. Sorry, but your list is terribly wrong. And it seems that your claims are simply made up. Who are some of the guys you mentioned? Frank Gagi, Anthony Rabbio, Benjamin Franz??? To my knowledge, Dom Cirillo has never said the things you claim he has. To whom did he say that? I find it hard to take you seriously unless you name your sources properly.
That's just it. Smurph doesn't even have a good grasp of the basics. Who's going to listen to him on anything else?
Some sources erroneously refer to Roy DeMeo as a capo. I heard a few commentaries making this statement. Mostly cause he had the support of what I like to call and "Associate crew" Rosenberg ands several others were never made fromt eh DeMeo crew. But after hearing DeMeo as a captain one might assume his associates were inf act made. Which was definitely not the case. DeMeo basically had to beg for his button in the firstplace. That's all I can say about that.
Anyways, if we can get back on topic. On an interesting note I found yet another person trying to edit the K&A wiki page. Some interesting tidbits. This is Basically what they came to say.
Quote:
Area's of Influence Traditionally based and strongest roots tied in the greater Philadelphia Metropolitan Area. (Port Richmond, Fishtown and Northeast Philadelphia particularly) Operations in Baltimore and New York Has business in Miami to Montreal to Northern Ireland.
Numbers More than 75 members. Hundreds of assumed associates and associations.
Activities Started off as a burglary ring. Operations were expanded into loan sharking (known as shylocking in Irish neighborhoods), prostitution, illegal slot machines and lotteries, unregistered off-track racing casinos, gaming casinos, prostitution, numbers running and international arms smuggling (to Irish Republican Army). A dissident wing of K&A wishing to deal narcotics did so and was later referred to as the "Narco Wing" mainly trafficking in Meth
Mafia Ties Initially loyal to the Gambino family. This changed when Angelo Bruno (a close friend of Edward Harding) was killed and later a more diplomatic Gambino boss Paul Castellano who had made a famous agreement with the Westies at Tommasso's restaraunt at Harding's bequest was murdered by a renegade Gambino crew that was equally addicted to using and selling narcotics in violation of the Gambino family rules.
During Conflicts that followed the death of Bruno, the gang split into factions. The Philadelphia Inquirer coined the methamphetamine dealing dissident section of the gang the "narco wing." Harding incorporated a non-profit Fenian Brothers of Independence Organization which earned the more reserved and politically involved faction the nickname "Irish Republican Brotherhood." The IRB went on to realign themselves with the Genovesse family under then boss Vincent "The Chin" Gigante.
Irish factions and mobsters are notorious for limiting interaction with others and therefore only worked in a limited capacity with non-members.
Just to be clear I did not write this. I'm merely reporting it. I did however, do spelling fixes, and rearranged grammar and other things to make the info more presentable. Sure, if you were truly interested you can goto wikipedia and see the edit. It was made by a unique IP adress (which is something I first check to see if it's the work of one person saying the same shit)
Basically I'm going to take a no comment at this point. Dunno what to make of it. Seems to be a compact rehash of old information with some new insight into the -story- of Ed Harding and the IRB group. WHich Shundler has proudly advertised publically.
As for membership and extent of influence this guy claims, I'm starting to wonder if this is a legitimate Irish-American organized crime group or perhaps something more politically motivated. Like some kind of North American branch of the larger Irish Republican political movement, and is therefore mis identified (As most paramilitary groups do engage in criminally minded funding means).
K&A clearly did start out as a burglary ring in the 60s but by the end of John Berkery's reign and the 1980's Meth trafficking busts, everything becomes hazy. So it's possible what now remains could be connected to the Irish Republican movement.
Perhaps of interest, I read an article in "Mob Candy" that has quotes from Commander Izzo the head of the NYPD Organized Crime Control Bureau where he described Bradford "The German" Cox as "powerful and influential". He also admits that he has been a target of regular surveillance. He does however say that The German, as elusive as he has always been, seems to be less involved in underworld activities himself. The contributor who wrote the artile restates that The German is assumed to have some sort of executiv or advisory role in the family. Appareently he is very close to Liborio Bellomo and allegedky dates his goddaughter who he treats like a daughter as he apparently brought her over from Italy as a girl and raised her. I think this is where the Genovese link comes in.
See...this is a perfect example of what frustrates me about what you present as fact. John Stanfa was never "made". Being "made" is an American mafia tradition. Stanfa came directly from Sicily and had a very tied in network when he arrived. He immediately became Angelo Bruno's driver and advisor. He didnt need to be "made".
Ralph Natalee himself says that he "made himself". Ralph Natalee is an absolute loser. Bruno and Stanfa hated him. The way he got involved was that while serving time for his SEOOND SERIES OR NAROTICS CHARGES he met Joey Merlino who was doing a bid related to a hijacking gone bad. Natalee and Merlino became friends and made plans for when they got out. Nobody wanted Natalee to have any responsibility. His narcotics dealing kept him from ever even being considered. As it was he never excercised any real power anyway. Merlino was always the real boss and Natalee the lightning rod.
Natalee quickly caught a third set of narcotics charges and then flipped. The first boss of a commission sitting family to do so.
Natalee and Merlino were never commission approved either incidentally. Stanfa wasthe last commissioned Bruno family boss but he never really held power either because the Young Turks were at war with them and the line and rank in Philly saw the Sicilian as an interloper and sidgey.
Merlino was made. The current acting street boss Steven Mazzone never was.
Can you please cite some credible sources to support your claim? Thanks brother.
If interested in hearing more about Ralph Natalee there is a good Philly Mob Talk episode with David Schratwizer of Fox and George Anastasio of the Daily News. If you Google "Philly Mob Talk Natalee Book" it comes up under videos.
See...this is a perfect example of what frustrates me about what you present as fact. John Stanfa was never "made". Being "made" is an American mafia tradition. Stanfa came directly from Sicily and had a very tied in network when he arrived. He immediately became Angelo Bruno's driver and advisor. He didnt need to be "made".
Ralph Natalee himself says that he "made himself". Ralph Natalee is an absolute loser. Bruno and Stanfa hated him. The way he got involved was that while serving time for his SEOOND SERIES OR NAROTICS CHARGES he met Joey Merlino who was doing a bid related to a hijacking gone bad. Natalee and Merlino became friends and made plans for when they got out. Nobody wanted Natalee to have any responsibility. His narcotics dealing kept him from ever even being considered. As it was he never excercised any real power anyway. Merlino was always the real boss and Natalee the lightning rod.
Natalee quickly caught a third set of narcotics charges and then flipped. The first boss of a commission sitting family to do so.
Natalee and Merlino were never commission approved either incidentally. Stanfa wasthe last commissioned Bruno family boss but he never really held power either because the Young Turks were at war with them and the line and rank in Philly saw the Sicilian as an interloper and sidgey.
Merlino was made. The current acting street boss Steven Mazzone never was.
Can you please cite some credible sources to support your claim? Thanks brother.
First, being "made" did not originate in the U.S. And a "made guy" is recognized as such on both sides.
Second, the Commission in New York wasn't functioning on the same level as it had before Bruno was killed and before the Commission case. The Gambinos supported Stanfa, while the Genovese supported the Merlino faction. Merlino was recognized as the acting boss but never became the official boss. Ligambi is made and was recognized as the official boss by New York.
Third, Natale was also made in a ceremony conducted by Joey Merlino. There is no rule that only an official boss, recognized by the Commission, can perform ceremonies or make guys. One can argue the case of whether Ron Previte was really made, since he never went through the ceremony, but you can't argue about Natale.
Fourth, according to all the sources I'm aware of, indictments, George Anastasia, etc., Steven Mazzone is also made.
See...this is a perfect example of what frustrates me about what you present as fact. John Stanfa was never "made". Being "made" is an American mafia tradition. Stanfa came directly from Sicily and had a very tied in network when he arrived. He immediately became Angelo Bruno's driver and advisor. He didnt need to be "made".
Ralph Natalee himself says that he "made himself". Ralph Natalee is an absolute loser. Bruno and Stanfa hated him. The way he got involved was that while serving time for his SEOOND SERIES OR NAROTICS CHARGES he met Joey Merlino who was doing a bid related to a hijacking gone bad. Natalee and Merlino became friends and made plans for when they got out. Nobody wanted Natalee to have any responsibility. His narcotics dealing kept him from ever even being considered. As it was he never excercised any real power anyway. Merlino was always the real boss and Natalee the lightning rod.
Natalee quickly caught a third set of narcotics charges and then flipped. The first boss of a commission sitting family to do so.
Natalee and Merlino were never commission approved either incidentally. Stanfa wasthe last commissioned Bruno family boss but he never really held power either because the Young Turks were at war with them and the line and rank in Philly saw the Sicilian as an interloper and sidgey.
Merlino was made. The current acting street boss Steven Mazzone never was.
Can you please cite some credible sources to support your claim? Thanks brother.
First, being "made" did not originate in the U.S. And a "made guy" is recognized as such on both sides.
Unless smurph means the term "made". Because that doesn't exist when referring to mafia in Sicily. You're a 'man of honor'. That's how you're referred to. Now as far as ceremonies go..of course they exist. That's just plain ignorance (stupidity?) to say otherwise.
Perhaps of interest, I read an article in "Mob Candy" that has quotes from Commander Izzo the head of the NYPD Organized Crime Control Bureau where he described Bradford "The German" Cox as "powerful and influential". He also admits that he has been a target of regular surveillance. He does however say that The German, as elusive as he has always been, seems to be less involved in underworld activities himself. The contributor who wrote the artile restates that The German is assumed to have some sort of executiv or advisory role in the family. Appareently he is very close to Liborio Bellomo and allegedky dates his goddaughter who he treats like a daughter as he apparently brought her over from Italy as a girl and raised her. I think this is where the Genovese link comes in.
Ah very interesting. Thanks for the info Smurph. As for the link to the Genovese family via this sort of casual relationship. I think it's entirely plausible.
Originally Posted By: Chucky
This is why I didn't title this thread K&A Gang or something similar. Everyone knows it pretty much faded into obscurity after John Berekery in the 80s.
However, while K&A area might not be as prominant. Alot of other neighborhood in teh Northeast still have a large Irish-American presence.
This is what this thread is about. THe "spiritual successor" to the K&A and any kind of Irish-American OC activity, at any capacity. On another note. It'd be cool if we could get back on topic.
But theres no real Irish OC in Philly. The closest think you may see to OC or corruption is Johny Doc down on 2 street with his union. lol. But for real there hasn't been a K&A gang for a long time. The 80s were there hey day with limited activity through the 90s and up to 2000.
Yeah I heard about the Seamus O'Neill thing a while back. Some posts I've seen wanna attribute into some sort of Irish-American OC thing, which I mentioned in my first post.
I didn't, however, know the details about John McLaughlin. That he had a stake McWhitey's in the Northeast or that he considered himself a gangster and was mildly feared amongst the locals as the article suggest.
And I agree that the K&A Gang in it's recognizable form hasn't been active since then. But you must admit there seems to be something going on in the Northeast. There's all these people taking. And the same names are popping up. Smoke there's fire.
For starters Tino is 100% Italian, Dominick Cirillo is the current Genovese Capo and Danny Leo isn't even close to an Albanian. And Barney doesn't have any God Daughter at all, in our home was three boys and a girl. I caution you talking about people you have no knowledge of! And I can't stand all this Mafia BS(I enjoy the Godfather portion) however your statements are so far fetched it's hard to believe that you read what you write, even harder to believe your nit trying to upset peoples lives by making improper false statements about them. Danny, Tino not Italian give me a break. Cirillo in the Gambino family. You can't even make this BS up. You've also stated the lineage of twenty people, where are you getting your info? Have you done a family tree for each? Matty Ianiello is also 100% Italian, his mothers maiden name was S------. Your a real dope. Smurf?
For starters Tino is 100% Italian, Dominick Cirillo is the current Genovese Capo and Danny Leo isn't even close to an Albanian. And Barney doesn't have any God Daughter at all, in our home was three boys and a girl. I caution you talking about people you have no knowledge of! And I can't stand all this Mafia BS(I enjoy the Godfather portion) however your statements are so far fetched it's hard to believe that you read what you write, even harder to believe your nit trying to upset peoples lives by making improper false statements about them. Danny, Tino not Italian give me a break. Cirillo in the Gambino family. You can't even make this BS up. You've also stated the lineage of twenty people, where are you getting your info? Have you done a family tree for each? Matty Ianiello is also 100% Italian, his mothers maiden name was S------. Your a real dope. Smurf?
As you know I've been working on the K&A Gang wikipedia page and have been responsible for mos tof the info on there, as far as the body goes.
Just something funny. Checked the recent edits as I so often do. Several times there's been this unique IP address removing information (specifically about John Berkery). Never paid it much attention, except today I go to look up the address just now.
Low and behold it originates in Philly. All info was properly sourced. Looks like someone's getting pissed off about their image.
Just something funny. Needed a reason to bump this thread. My baby hehe.
So I decided to go see the alleged hype about "The German". I went to his court appearance in the Brooklyn Superior Court on February 23rd. According to record discussion his federal RICO charges had been dropped at a grand jury hearing and more serious felony charged forfeited by the state. I noted Liborio Bellomo (Genovese Boss) in the courtroom as well as Steven Mazzonne (Philly acting street boss. There were also a number of attendees wearing Irish green ties including The German's attorney Bruce Cutler.
Prosecution offered a plea to dismiss all charges if he agreed to pay for property his alleged associates stole. He stated that he would not accept the plea and that he was prepared to fight the charges based on principal.
He stated in court that he felt because of certain alleged associations with organized crime he has been subject to repeated arrest and charges falsely. He said that it is his opinion that because he didnt cooperate with FBI agents in Philadelphia that they are attempting to corner him into one of three options. He said the FBI would only cease their conspiracy if he was dead, jailed or cooperating.
The judge then asked the prosecutor if the complaintant was present and the state declared that he was not only not present but reported missing. The judge postponed a decision and allowed the state a continuance until May 25th when the German is scheduled to appear again.
I have the court address if anyone is interested. The state did make a weak attempt to jail The German without bond based on his known affiliations with organized crime groups including the "Bruno and Genovese Families of so-called la cosa nostra, the philadelphia irish mafia group known as the k&a of which he is the undisputed leader and as a known material and monetary supporter of the terrorist organization the RIRA or Real Irish Republican Army."
That is a quote from his trial and more info can be found in articles in both the Daily News and New York Post.
Also, The German was subpoenaed to testify in the Thomas "Tommy Shots" Gioeli case. Shots is an alleged former boss of the Colombo family. He refused to answer any questions and served five days for being in contempt.
I applaud your conclusions and appreciate how well you re-phraase what I am trying to say. You do a great job of editing and monitoring and I can see you also are seeking referencable material. I hope that you continue to summarize as brilliantly as you have thus far and encourage you to utilize information from those genuinely interested in your thread who are as interested as you are in solving the mystery. I encourage discourse among those who have references for their remarks and encourage you to delete the material posted by those who do not.
I think its unfair that gawkers and those without any knowledge or referencable comments pass judgement on those who demonstrate some degree of knowledge regarding your thread subject.
There are previous articles, one in "The Irish Echo" that I will try and aquire and post from that time that allege that Seamus was acting as Irish street boss while The German and Thunder ran operations from prison and Florida. According to the articles the head of the Philadelphia FBI Organized Crime Task Force attributed the murder to The German who allegedly ordered this "hit" after Seamus reportedly told Trip Harding (former boss Ed Harding's son) that he had plans to take over German and Thunder rackets. McClaughlin is a "patch master" or hitman brought in to take care of the situation. This is common in organized crime. Italian and Irish undergrounders have been known to bring people over to conduct hits.
No...I dont make it up...this is based on a series called "Philly Mob" hosted by George Anastasia of the Philadelphia Inquirer and Barry Switzer from Fox Philly. Google search and do some research and you will find the same. If what you say is true then they are to blame. Im not saying Im the Almighty, I'm just making reference to thoise with more info than myself. Perhaps you should try the same instead of whistling out of your ass.
hey ivy league...how'd you get in when you can't spell "here" correctly...
Yeah, I admit I screwed up on that word. It happens when you're typing fast. That said, you're the last person who should be talking about getting things wrong.
Thanks for the kind words above Smurph. I also love your input on the topic. Yous eem to have alot of information. I'd be interested to find out what else you know or will find out in the immediate future. Also, I'd like to looka t those articles and court documents and such. I find Shundler very fascinating.
As for the K&A, that's been over since the 80s, the northeast has a bunch of russians, polish, and mob guys but no fucking K&A...it aint 1970 anymore.
/beginnecropost Yeah I believe it died it anything close to it's original form (A loose network of Irish crooks) with John Berkery after he got busted in the meth thing with Long John Martorano.
Then again? You think the Russians & the Pollacks are more viable than an Irish-American OC precence in the Northeast??? I mean there's no doubt some LCN up there. But Philly has one of the largest Irish-American populations in the United States. Most of it focused in the Northeast (at least historically). I dunno how you could say that about the Russians much less the Polish are more active and viable... I mean the Irish might not be called K&A or hang out in that area anymore. It's jsut synonymous with IRish OC like the NorthEast..
Thanks for posting the WSJ article...I had read an excerpt from it before, but not the whole thing. Like many things in life, timing is everything...Scarfo was plotting to take out Salvie before the ink was even dry! Think on how different the Philly family would be today if Testa made a move on Nicky first. It was Scarfo's paranoia that crushed the family, and the current dysfunctional iteration of Philly LCN is no doubt still paying the price.
So I decided to go see the alleged hype about "The German". I went to his court appearance in the Brooklyn Superior Court on February 23rd. According to record discussion his federal RICO charges had been dropped at a grand jury hearing and more serious felony charged forfeited by the state. I noted Liborio Bellomo (Genovese Boss) in the courtroom as well as Steven Mazzonne (Philly acting street boss. There were also a number of attendees wearing Irish green ties including The German's attorney Bruce Cutler.
Prosecution offered a plea to dismiss all charges if he agreed to pay for property his alleged associates stole. He stated that he would not accept the plea and that he was prepared to fight the charges based on principal.
He stated in court that he felt because of certain alleged associations with organized crime he has been subject to repeated arrest and charges falsely. He said that it is his opinion that because he didnt cooperate with FBI agents in Philadelphia that they are attempting to corner him into one of three options. He said the FBI would only cease their conspiracy if he was dead, jailed or cooperating.
The judge then asked the prosecutor if the complaintant was present and the state declared that he was not only not present but reported missing. The judge postponed a decision and allowed the state a continuance until May 25th when the German is scheduled to appear again.
I have the court address if anyone is interested. The state did make a weak attempt to jail The German without bond based on his known affiliations with organized crime groups including the "Bruno and Genovese Families of so-called la cosa nostra, the philadelphia irish mafia group known as the k&a of which he is the undisputed leader and as a known material and monetary supporter of the terrorist organization the RIRA or Real Irish Republican Army."
That is a quote from his trial and more info can be found in articles in both the Daily News and New York Post.
What a load of horse shit. Irish ties and mazzone is one thing. But barney at a fuckin well known mob trial? In a suit in tie!? I know its bs now haha
Wow were is smurph getn this shit.we all know that there's been high ranking associates that we're irish but never a consig.or capo in the sense they are made and in the family.and chris Rosenberg was NEVER made.him using the last name demeo is 1ofit the things that led to his death.and were do u get the philly fam didn't have made bosses
I think the last viable and concrete Irish-American racketeer leader to come outta the K&A, would have to be John Berkery in the 1980s. Well, unless you count the vaguely Irish meth guys that were left with the remnants after he went AWOL.
Everything else is really just insubstantial rumormongering.
Altho, I'm sure there's still little crews and independent crooks in the Northeast of Irish descent.
Yeah I heard about the Seamus O'Neill thing a while back. Some posts I've seen wanna attribute into some sort of Irish-American OC thing, which I mentioned in my first post.
I didn't, however, know the details about John McLaughlin. That he had a stake McWhitey's in the Northeast or that he considered himself a gangster and was mildly feared amongst the locals as the article suggest. .
Wasn't some of these guys the last of the Alamo for the white street kids in North Philly? Kensington is where these crackpots pitched their battles with the Spanish and the Ricans and the blacks. This was back in the early 90's and McLaughin was part of the crew involved in this battle which is why when he later owned the bar he called the bar 'McWhitey's' cos it weren't exactly a tribute to Whitey Bulger if you catch my drift. He wanted the white power to prevail in the neighborhood and there were some pretty fierce disputes. In 89 he was stabbed in the chest in a battle between whites and the hispanics. http://articles.philly.com/1989-10-17/news/26118083_1_youths-ontario-streets-john-mclaughlin
Kensington is quite a tough neighborhood today from what I hear so it must have been a real junkyard back then. Hear they have cops on every corner now to stamp on those looking to cop shit in the neighborhood.
Closest you'll probably get to an Irish mob boss in the North East these days is one of the leaders of those white pride type gangs. Not sure if Dead Man Inc has any followers in Philly but in Maryland and Brooklyn it has members and down in Texas James Sweeeney has just pled out to avoid the chair or some shit over some murder rap in Texas. Always an Irish guy wrapped up in this bullshit these days though not sure if these are white pride as they were sposed to have a thing with the Black Guerilla family though down in Texas that BFG shit ain't gonna fly with those Aryan dudes. http://articles.baltimoresun.com/2013-01...l-gang-dead-man
I think the last viable and concrete Irish-American racketeer leader to come outta the K&A, would have to be John Berkery in the 1980s. Well, unless you count the vaguely Irish meth guys that were left with the remnants after he went AWOL.
Everything else is really just insubstantial rumormongering.
Altho, I'm sure there's still little crews and independent crooks in the Northeast of Irish descent.
Berkery was like a living legend in the philly area. I forget if it was picked up on tape or if someone testified about it but Angelo Bruno supposedly said he loved Berkery and that he would of made him in a second if he was italian. Berkery and Long John were around Bruno all the time and he never made Martorano but he said he would of made Berkery. Go figure. lol
I think the last viable and concrete Irish-American racketeer leader to come outta the K&A, would have to be John Berkery in the 1980s. Well, unless you count the vaguely Irish meth guys that were left with the remnants after he went AWOL.
Everything else is really just insubstantial rumormongering.
Altho, I'm sure there's still little crews and independent crooks in the Northeast of Irish descent.
Berkery was like a living legend in the philly area. I forget if it was picked up on tape or if someone testified about it but Angelo Bruno supposedly said he loved Berkery and that he would of made him in a second if he was italian. Berkery and Long John were around Bruno all the time and he never made Martorano but he said he would of made Berkery. Go figure. lol
They were real tight. Bruno was the Godfather to Berkery's son too and Berkery also had another son whose Godfather was a made guy from South Jersey I think.
When some guy called Hornblum was doing a book on the K&A crew he wanted to keep a lid on it cos he didn't want his name in any way associated to the burglary thing.
Yep, that's the guy. It checks out. Altho I didn't know about his whitepower history. How ironic that he got pinched for batterying a ol' FOB mick to death.
Originally Posted By: Giancarlo
Berkery was like a living legend in the philly area. I forget if it was picked up on tape or if someone testified about it but Angelo Bruno supposedly said he loved Berkery and that he would of made him in a second if he was italian. Berkery and Long John were around Bruno all the time and he never made Martorano but he said he would of made Berkery. Go figure. lol
Yeah he's a really interesting figure int he Philadelphia OC crime scene. Had a definite hand in making Philly the "Meth Capitol of the World" in the 80. Ofc. along with the regulars. Pagans, Chelsais Bouras, John Martorano, Ronald Raiton etc etc.
Originally Posted By: SEAN_SOUTH
When some guy called Hornblum was doing a book on the K&A crew he wanted to keep a lid on it cos he didn't want his name in any way associated to the burglary thing.
Yeah tell me about it. He's a bit of a spaz when it comes to his image. He tried to sue Hornblum IIRC, and I believe he's gone straight and is a lawyer now.
He has even taken to having his people deface Wikipedia to remove his name out of relevant articles. Curious how someone like that can turn things around. Esp. when his crew was known for doing burglaries up and down the eastern seaboard for decades.
there is a guy in Delaware county called the bulldog he runs the irish and nobody does a thing without his approval,he went to war with the boyle st boys out of chester.he is more of an urban legend they say he is a little guy but crazier than hell
there is a guy in Delaware county called the bulldog he runs the irish and nobody does a thing without his approval,he went to war with the boyle st boys out of chester.he is more of an urban legend they say he is a little guy but crazier than hell
Stonehurst/Bywood born, bred, and based and most of my "crazier" neighbors of Irish (or Italian or any white for that matter) descent in Delco are too busy sampling Chester's finest wares to fight a war with them. I see the same in Clifton, Collingdale, Drexel Hill and everywhere in between.
So yeah, I don't believe you.
For those who want to know what became of the K&A gang here are some examples of the kids of the K&A gang doing like daddy did.
Wasn't some of these guys the last of the Alamo for the white street kids in North Philly? Kensington is where these crackpots pitched their battles with the Spanish and the Ricans and the blacks. This was back in the early 90's and McLaughin was part of the crew involved in this battle which is why when he later owned the bar he called the bar 'McWhitey's' cos it weren't exactly a tribute to Whitey Bulger if you catch my drift. He wanted the white power to prevail in the neighborhood and there were some pretty fierce disputes. In 89 he was stabbed in the chest in a battle between whites and the hispanics. http://articles.philly.com/1989-10-17/news/26118083_1_youths-ontario-streets-john-mclaughlin
i found this video of kensington back in 1982 its from i guess the white area. It looked pretty depressing back then swell.
I live in Baltimore and ive seen some of these Dead Man Inc kids. they are all dopeheads, far from racketeers..
I think they are mostly a prison based gang and the only real viable group for white inmates in the maryland system. Not really been much evidence of them out on the streets as an organised force like the BGF or other drug crews.
I live in Baltimore and ive seen some of these Dead Man Inc kids. they are all dopeheads, far from racketeers..
Most, if not all, white street guys are dopers (even in the younger guys in the Mafia nowadays). If they weren't they'd be earning more and longer money legitimately or in white collar fraud. Other groups are locked out of certain things in a way white men and women are not.
i found this video of kensington back in 1982 its from i guess the white area. It looked pretty depressing back then swell.
It was and is depressing. If you can imagine it got even worse. It was scummy back then. It's dangerous now.
John Berkery, "alleged" Philly crime figure and associateofAngeloBruno justput out two self-published books. They are of a thinly veiled autobiographical nature.
I bought the second one causethats the era thatreally interests me. I havent read it in depth, but skimmed a few pages. Theres tons of mention ofintermingling with the LCN. Raymond Martorano, Bruno, Bouras, Raiton, Pagans all the bignames of the Scarfo/Bruno era.
Kinda funny that he sued Hornblum for libel years prior to putting out his own books. Hell maybe that's the reason. Eliminate the competition.
im in port richmond, and i know a couple of the the guys involved in the meth ring years ago have recently been released prison. cant remember names though. Berkery is legend down here.
The last remnants of the K&A gang were the Traitz brothers crew which had a meth ring before they were indicted/ sentenced in the early 2000s. There also aren't really any predominantly Irish neighborhoods left like Kensington, Grays Ferry, Mayfair and Pennsport once were.
The last remnants of the K&A gang were the Traitz brothers crew which had a meth ring before they were indicted/ sentenced in the early 2000s. There also aren't really any predominantly Irish neighborhoods left like Kensington, Grays Ferry, Mayfair and Pennsport once were.
For an all out good read on the K&A gang, please get yourself a copy of " Second Story Man"...cant remember the authors name, & I lent my copy to my bro-in- law & havent seen it back yet....good read though. there r a predominant Irish population still in Kensington though & the older dudes sitting in the corner bars(which r on EVERY corner) r full of stories.
Supposedly the guy had connections to Skinny Joey in Philly I remember and he dropped dead of a heart attack at Penn Station NY on the train platform with a book bag filled with 250k. Why couldn’t I have found that book bag , FML....
Some of the pictures here , 
are so spooky and tough, my heart 
