Vincent "Chin" Gigante Albanian?

I read an article on gangland news that mentions multi ethnic mobsters and it mentions "Chin" as an Albanian. So was "Chins" parents Sicilians descended from Albanians in Sicily? This is what Im thinking. Sorry I couldn't find the article, but i saw this article when it was free at the time on gangland news, now you have to pay for a subscription. Sucks.

WOW! That guy know history...

So to sum it up:

Albanians moved to Souther Italy A WAY LONG AGO!!!
They settled in Southern Italy (Calabria, Sicily, Basilicata, Puglia, Campania, Abruzzo) in the 15th to 18th centuries AD in several waves of migrations, following the death of the Albanian national hero George Kastrioti Skanderbeg and the gradual conquest of Albania and throughout the Byzantine Empire by the Ottoman Turks.

Now if this makes Vincent Gigante an Albanian...I'm West African-American.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arb%C3%ABresh%C3%AB

The Arbëreshë are a linguistic and ethnic Albanian minority community living in southern Italy, especially the regions of Apulia, Basilicata, Molise, Calabria and Sicily.[2] They settled in Southern Italy in the 15th to 18th centuries AD in several waves of migrations, following the death of the Albanian national hero George Kastrioti Skanderbeg and the gradual conquest of Albania and throughout the Byzantine Empire by the Ottoman Turks. The Arbëreshë have their own distinct culture and have been able to preserve the original Albanian identity[3] over the centuries. Over the centuries the Arbëreshë have managed to maintain and develop their identities, thanks to their stubbornness and cultural value exercised mainly by the two religious communities of the Eastern Rite Byzantine Catholics, based in Calabria, the "Collegio Corsini" (1732) and then "Corsini-Sant'Adriano" in 1794 and Sicily in the "Seminario Greco-Albanese of Palermo" (1735) then transferred to Piana degli Albanesi in 1945. Today, most of the fifty Arbëreshë communities still preserve the Byzantine Catholics belonging to the Italo-Albanian Catholic Church of Eastern Rite.

The Arbëresh language is of particular interest to students of the modern Albanian language as it represents the sounds, grammar, and vocabulary of pre-Ottoman Albania. However, the Arbëreshë language has been influenced more by the Italian dialect than any other Albanian.
Anyway the arbesche are italian from century, many mantein only the surname, but are 100% italian.

There was some discussion on this sort of thing in another thread recently.

Its like, your family only got here in the sixteenth century; your a foreigner. Funny thing for the virulent racism that runs through many mobsters is the actual ethnographic histories of Southern Italian names and bloodlines.

i heard that vinny gigante relatives are from napoli, so it's impossible they were arberesh they never settled to napoli
even in other parts they were very small in numbers

Not even that sometimes. Most names were "italianized".
I met guys whose lastnames were Parisi, Abate, Contessa, 100% Italian...they were aware of their SUPER OLD Arbereshe heritage, but they felt 100% Italian.
There are many communities here in the States.

- New Orleans has a large group due to the fact that it was the first city Italian used to moved to (mid-1800s) and Arbereshe people were even poorer that the averenge Sicilian so they moved out earlier.

- Sacramento, CA. They have a folk feast every year. San Giuseppe.

- Even here in MI. Even if (with all the Albanians we have) they tend to feel more Italian.

They did settle in Campania. Smaller numbers than Calabria and Sicily, but they indeed settled there.
And Napoli was the center of that region.So it's possible that they were born in a small Arbareshe village and then moved to Napoli seeking for jobs...at least before moving here.

Joseph DioGuardi's family came from Greci, Avellino province.

Slightly off topic but related:

Regis Philbin is half Italian/Albanian, half Irish. His mother is of Arbëreshë heritage. He's a distant cousin of Kara DioGuardi, formerly of "American Idol," who's also of Arbëreshë heritage.

Nothing seems to be impossible when it comes to Italian ethnography. They've literally had all sorts over the centuries.



Interesting.

Anyone ever hear that Al Pacino was Jewish?

Also off topic but the Italian Marxist writer and philosopher Antonio Gramsci was also Arbershe.

Ive also read that the Genovese labor racketeer Johnny Dio DioGuardi was Arbereshe. I may be wrong on that but.

"They did settle in Campania"

not in napoli, i heard the only arberesh living in campania are in 1 village in avellino province
they never settled to napoli read about it

"And Napoli was the center of that region.So it's possible that they were born in a small Arbareshe village and then moved to Napoli seeking for jobs...at least before moving here."

yes like it's possible and i'm actually johnny depp

Replace "johnny depp" with "pathetic" and I'll agree with you.

pathetic me? lol
pathetic are albanian people who masturbate their minds about this kind of question
gigante was not arberesh period, they were not in napoli and even in the places they settled they were very little so the possibility of an italian has arberesh descent is very very small and even though he's 100% italian today

Why so confrontational? I dont think anybody can say definitively yes or no but for Gigante himself, and even he may not know. In any case...



You "heard"? If the Capeci article botz mentioned is indeed accurate, Id have to take Capeci's word over yours mate.

"Why so confrontational? I dont think anybody can say definitively yes or no but for Gigante himself, and even he may not know. In any case..."

are you serious? arberesh never settled to napoli so what are we talking about? honestly, it's more probable that george bush is italian than gigante arberesh
"You "heard"? If the Capeci article botz mentioned is indeed accurate, Id have to take Capeci's word over yours mate."

according to more accurate sources his family came from napoli and it's true

Thats fair enough; can you reference the "more accurate source"?

If you mean the Wikipedia page that states as much, there is no citation for it and Wikipedia, while great for certain things, its OC and LCN pages have been shown to contain a number of inaccurate, incorrect and disputed "facts".

Some examples would be the page on Steve Crea claiming his family came from Piedmont, while various sources and certain posters insist he is Calabrian. Or that on Daniel Leo, claiming his family came from the region of La Marche, while others have claimed Napolitan descent. Though in those cases the argument may just be disputing the notion that some US mobsters came from northern stock, and/or that of various other Italian states.

Is it relevant to his criminal career, beyond being "Italian"? Not really. Is it esoterically interesting to us crime-buffs? No doubt.

The thing is; it doesn't take "numbers". People/families move and migrate for any number of reasons. You cannot definitively say that no Abereshe families ever settled in Naples, simply because they settled in "numbers" somewhere else.

Im more interested in the fact the Gigante name may or may not have Albanian roots more so then his actual genetic makeup. He's obviously Italian. Cultural identity comes from self expression as well as ancestry IMO. If you identify as Italian, you're Italian. If you identify as Australian, you're Australian.

But now Im getting off topic...

There was certainly one guy that would have. He went by the name "JohnnyRed" (and several other names) over on the StreetGangs board a few years ago and was on the Real Deal for a short time before getting banned. His mission in life was to convince everyone Albanians were taking over anything and everything. That they had what he called the "Mafia gene" and were really the ones that spawned the Italian Mafia. Fortunately, he doesn't come around the forums anymore.

"If you mean the Wikipedia page that states as much, there is no citation for it and Wikipedia, while great for certain things, its OC and LCN pages have been shown to contain a number of inaccurate, incorrect and disputed "facts".

Some examples would be the page on Steve Crea claiming his family came from Piedmont, while various sources and certain posters insist he is Calabrian. Or that on Daniel Leo, claiming his family came from the region of La Marche, while others have claimed Napolitan descent. Though in those cases the argument may just be disputing the notion that some US mobsters came from northern stock, and/or that of various other Italian states.

Is it relevant to his criminal career, beyond being "Italian"? Not really. Is it esoterically interesting to us crime-buffs? No doubt.

The thing is; it doesn't take "numbers". People/families move and migrate for any number of reasons. You cannot definitively say that no Abereshe families ever settled in Naples, simply because they settled in "numbers" somewhere else.

Im more interested in the fact the Gigante name may or may not have Albanian roots more so then his actual genetic makeup. He's obviously Italian. Cultural identity comes from self expression as well as ancestry IMO. If you identify as Italian, you're Italian. If you identify as Australian, you're Australian."

it didn't come to wikipedia it was another source
like i said before i doubt there's even a single wiseguy in the whole lcn history from central-north italy or central-north italian descent they came all from the southern regions where the mafia is rooted
crea is obviously calabrian, that surname came from calabria for the most i don't daniel leo he could be sicilian or napolitan
yeah i can't definitively say there were not arberesh who settled in napoli like italians who settled in congo, who knows?
only an idiot could think there is even a single possibility over 30 millions that gigante relatives were arberesh since even in abruzzi and north calabria where they were mostly located they were very small in numbers
anyway believe what you want if it makes you better...

"There was certainly one guy that would have. He went by the name "JohnnyRed" (and several other names) over on the StreetGangs board a few years ago and was on the Real Deal for a short time before getting banned. His mission in life was to convince everyone Albanians were taking over anything and everything. That they had what he called the "Mafia gene" and were really the ones that spawned the Italian Mafia. Fortunately, he doesn't come around the forums anymore."

yeah i remember this johnnyred guy he was among the most idiot in the forums history, his stupidity was staggering
only an italian fanboy called faciulina in the same forum was as stupid as him

They were two peas in a pod.

What, like a neighbourhood source or something?


You're obviously one of those people (like "JohnnyRed" perhaps) that assumes its some nefarious "mafia" gene inborn in Southern Italians that precludes any others from taking that path?
As mentioned a number of time in various threads, I think the melting pot that is the American LCN stopped caring long ago where exactly in Italy you came from. As long as you had the name, an Italian dad and/or grandfather, and were a criminal.


So you're like an ethnographer? Then you'd know that the Italian surname "Leo" is believed to have "come" from the areas around the commune of San Leo in the region of La Marche (once part of the Urbino and Pesaro provinces but now part of Rimini and Emilia-Romagna after a referendum took effect)?

Kinda disproves you're theory that since its a such-and-such name they must come from such-and-such a place.


You say this, and admit you cant really prove your theory, but then...


WTF? Once again, you totally miss the point of my post. It seems you dont want discussion, you want "Im right, end of discussion", except this is a thread you cannot possibly be definitively "right" about.

So johnnyred, faciulina, m2w, whoever you are...only an idiot would be as rude as you are, and also incapable of actually backing up anything they say beyond claiming what he "heard". But hey, think whatever you want if it makes you feel better. It seems I wont be learning anything from you.

i read it on realdeal if i remember right



i never said nothing about mafia gene, but i suppose they all come from the provinces where the mafia was formed and it is rooted, even in north italy all the mobsters come from southern regions



you can find some typical southern surname in some north regions but they are probably immigrants from the south, and it's logic to think crea family came from calabria and leo family came from sicily or napoli




of course you can't prove anything too and the common sense says clearly i'm right about it



i use the logic, not what i heard

Guys, you're arguing about nonsense. Who really gives a fuck anyway?

Gigante was culturally Italian American, with familial roots in Southern Italy. That's all that matters. If you go back far enough in someone's lineage, the odds of finding someone who's "100%" Italian are pretty slim. Southern Italy is one of the biggest melting pots on the planet. Take a DNA test that goes back far enough, and you'll find that most Southern Italians have Greek, Arab and African roots.

You can't argue with science. All four of my grandparents immigrated here from Calabria and Basilicata. Culturally, I'm 100% Italian American. But I have no problem believing that back in the middle ages my ancestors may have been Greek, Arab or African.

Very well put pizzaboy.

I try my best, LuanKuci .

you forget spanish roots that are more important than all the other conbined, south italy was under spanish kingdom for centuries
african roots? it's incorrect only sicily was under arabs for a little while and that's all, greek? yes in some places but very very old roots

That's the point. Very, very, very, very old roots.

Southern Italy (Naples to Sicily) was a Greek colony for approx. 500 years (700BC - 200BC). It's not surprising the word 'Ndrangheta' has a greek origin. There are still pockets of communities in southern Italy speaking some form of greek dialect.

Also, people forget to factor in the large slave population around Rome (maybe 40%). These slaves came from all over the empire (France, Spain, Britain, Judea etc) and most likely melted into the population later. Like Pizzaboy said, it's a melting pot.

southern italy was under spanish kingdom from 1300 to 1700 long after the greeks
anyway most of people didn't mix with greeks or spanish since who ruled in the fact were local barons it's a mixed places like tons of other in the world not more not less
the ridiculous fact it's find some etnich roots after 500 or 1.000 years, it's like we trace our roots in africa were the human race probably was born lol

sicily was under arab rule wich came from north-africa and spain was also conquered by the arabs but they came from north-africa and those guys where mixed black and white. and there was a time that the carthaginian empire ruled sicily.

sicily (not south italy as a whole) was under arabs and byzantines very little compared to spanish so it's logic spaniard had the most impact by far there

Thats it. And like PB said, they're all culturally Italian anyway..

Have you never seen one of those shows like "Who Do You Think You Are?" and such.

In it, it basically takes someone who swears black and blue they are "English, through and through" or whatever ethnicity, and after conducting genealogical tests, often show that the person who considered him or herself "(a particular ethnicity) through and through" are in reality descended from a number of different places/peoples.

My point is that ethnography can be a tricky thing, and just because a certain name has certain regional roots, does not definitely mean that people named as such did not migrate and move around the country/world at times.

And splitting hairs now, the fact that the generic "swarthiness" of Southern Italians is considered by some to have come from the Moorish influence, it could be arguable that "spaniard had the most influence by far", since Southern Spain was once also a bastion of the Moors. Ipso facto, the Moors could arguably be considered to have had more of an "impact".

Theres a kind of logic behind the somewhat racist saying "Africa starts south of Rome"

I echo George De Stefano's opinion; for me, thats where Italy starts.

so according to your logic the moors had impact in south america because south spain was under arabs for a little while?
it has not any sense
when south italy was under spain (1300s-1700s) it was among the most powerful countries in the world and it had no any moors impact at that time
spaniards had the most impact in south italy, culture, behaviour etc... tons of local words come from spain and according to a ndrangheta legend the three major mafias were formed by three spanish riders in 1300s

Jeez. People...

Actually, Greeks colonized (populated) southern Italy in very large numbers, about the same time Celtic tribes were colonizing the northeast end of the boot. Coastal cities like Naples, Reggio, and Syracuse were considered Greek cities. They viewed it as the "new world", much the way europeans viewed America in the early 20th century. As far as mixing, I think you meant the Normans/French or Spanish? A little OT, but interesting to know the history.

if im not wrong the moors ruled almost spain and portugal entirely for 3 centuries(from 700 till 1000) and after that it went downhill until mid 1400 when they where finaly defeated by the spanish.

@yigido

your talking about the arab tribes that conquered sicily they looked like they was black but they weren't black, like the berbers and moors they weren't black. the pictures of Jesus you see is not the real description Jesus even really looked like a moor or berber.

Mickey i'm not sure if that show your referring to is what i'm thinking of but i remember a couple years ago a bunch of celebs gave up samples of their DNA to be tested and one of them was Larry David. His results came back that he was 37% American Indian. When they told him he thought they were just joking around but they weren't and according to the tests He is 37% American Indian. He thought or assumed he was 100% european.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/megan-smolenyak-smolenyak/playing-with-dna-is-larry_b_402795.html

That was the George Lopez show about Larry David being 37% Native American its probably something else and Native Americans are part of the Mongoloid race so are asians, he is probably not native american but mixed with some mongoloid asiatic race the invading tribes like the huns for example.

The Hungarians have alot of the huns people in them and thats why it was named Hungary.

Makes sense, Botz. According to Larry, his family came from Eastern Europe. So I guess Hungary is a possibility .

You're aware that those tests have almost zero scientific basis right? Alongside its various other failings, it often confuses Asian/Native American heritage with Caucasian genes...But David is Jewish anyway, so difficult to say 100% European anyway.

Well to tell you the truth i really don't. I have no idea how it works and so forth. I have read there are much more advanced dna testing for genealogy now but i really don't know the details about it.

I havn't caught much of the American versions but its the exact same concept. Thanks for the Huff post link.




The show is what it is, entertainment. But as for 'almost zero scientific basis", between genealogical studies and strontium tests that established ancient migratory patterns and help determine continental origins to a certain extent, they actually do pretty well these days. Im not saying there's no failings in the science as of yet, but to say it has zero basis in science is a bit far. I mean, its not like they're just looking at the guy and going "Hmm...this guy looks kinda native american-y".

New Orleans has albanians down there to matter of fact the southern italians that came to new orleans are descended from the albanians (Arbreshe). Italians came to New Orleans first I think and that is where American Cosa Nostra was founded in New Orleans. In New Orleans there was the Mafia-Camorra war like there was in New York.

i don't know where italians in new orleans came from, i bet mostly sicilians but i don't think from arberesh villages
there are two small arberesh villages in sicily only, piana degli albanesi and santa cristina gela
arberesh can't even be accepted in the mafia since they are not roman catholic

Mostly from the Palermo Province. The ones from Contessa Entellina still meet every once in a while. There is still a society in New Orleans... link to their history.

mostly from monreale i think like the matranga's and provenzano's

Joseph Ardizzone guy that founded the Los Angeles crime family has albanian descendents (Arbreshe).

I would consider Arbreshe now italian because they have been in italy long a long time and some italians/sicilians have partial arbreshe peoples in them.

joe ardizzone had some arbresh descent on mather side only, that's because he was in the mafia
100% arberesh can't be accepted since they are not roman catholic

In America the mobsters don't mind this as long the person has an italian last name and there people came from italy its fine.

it's not true, all the made members come from south italy and at the beginning of 1900s only sicilians were accepted since the mafia was a branch of sicilians

right i have a friend from new york talking to me about this himself he said he couldn't get made cause he was of northern stock. but these days I would think to be accepted in this life your people would just have to come from italy.

In America the Italians that are of Arbereshe descent these days can they be made in a crime family in America?

From what I can tell, in the early days, what region of Italy a guy's ancestors came from may have held some weight. That's when the rivalries between Sicilian, Neapolitin, Calabrian, etc. were more apparent. But fast forward a few generations, when Italians have become assimilated in the mainstream American culture, as well one type of Italian marrying another type of Italian, and I don't think it matters anymore. If a guy is well connected enough, a good earner, etc. he stands a good chance of getting made as long as his last name is of Italian descent - hence him having some Italian blood.

The point being, if somebody is of Arbereshe descent, he probably also has some Italian blood along the way as well so it probably wouldn't make much difference as long as the other criteria above are met.

arbereshe if they are catholic yes but most of them are not so they cant they usually makes the greek-byzantine rite
but if they are catholic yes they are totally italians for centuries its like to to make a man coz it has spanish ancestors in 1400

So much misinformation here. the Arbereshe are catholics. and many of them still speak Albanian. they are not 100% Italians. I have seen documentaries of them and they still speak albanian, they have had major impact on Albanian history and independence, even creating alphabets. although they have italian accents. and Joseph Ardizzone was from piana degli albanesi. he was Albanian, and he founded one of the first American crime families. so how can you call someone who founded this stuff as foreigner? as the guy said, only sicilians were accepted first. Johnny dioguardi was also arbereshe, probably related to Arbereshe politician Joseph Dioguardi.

the matranga family were arbereshe and the cuccia family too.

and in italy you had Francesco cuccia in piana degli albanesi at the time of the origin of sicilian mafia, and the mob originated in sicily... you also had several others. and there is an albanian writer who is known to of sided with them.

if you don't believe me read about arbereshe, and see for yourself... luca matranga (Albanian-arbereshe writer) although lived hundreds of years before, is probably related to matranga crime family, cuccia... these surnames are not italian, and the fact that they are from piana degli albanesi. although allot of albanians have latinized names.. especially early albanians that fled from ottoman empire. before ottoman occupation we were like italians. you can even see these in the arbereshe surnames... very latin sounding. and also the roman empire was in the balkans and had major impact.

and some guy here said there are no arbereshe in naples, arbereshe were soldiers for the kingdom of naples, of course they settled there.

And there are several of greek origin, or maybe arbereshe (arvanite) like guiseppe greco. because the arvanite also came from greece and settled in italy.. they first lived in greece in peloponesse and thessaly.

Chin was Italiano
I have a subscription to gangland news and I can't find this supposed article anywhere, not the archives anywhere

Sounds like a troller

Andrew kanapic got made by the gambinos
Jackie nose pushed him through

They are Catholic, they're Eastern Byzantine-rite Catholic and not Roman Catholic, but they belong to the Church.

Byzantine/Greek rite Catholics are ex-Orthodox people who accepted the authority of the Pope in Rome but preserved some of the old Orthodox liturgy.

From what I understand, Knapic (Merola) is part Italian. There's no way he could be made if that wasn't the case.

What are some of the Southern Italian names you talking about in your post?

Some of the Moors (which is a name Europeans collectively gave to most anyone of ) were very much black-african. The Moors were an eclectic group of islamic peoples of varying ethnic backgrounds (the berbers are often caught in the catch-all of the term "moor" as well).

At least this is what I recall from my university days. Could be wrong (but I don't think I am).

Oh, Christ. Not this thread again.

Botz's gift to the board that just keeps on giving .

Yes, cultures are quite fascinating.

It's like the Chicago 28 members thread . Give it up already

Well, to be fair the Chicago 28 members thread is quite normal now and has more or less turned into a general Chicago discussion.

Yes its like the subject is about the Chicago 28 members dead then it turns into a subject about The stars in the sky

Don't get offended, Botz. It was a fucking joke.

Better question: who cares?

The Chicago thread became an embarrassment. Luckily it's somewhat back on track.

But quibbling over Gigante's roots is just......eh. lol.

Cultures are fascinating for what they were, but they're futile in a society where the collective is trying desperately to progress spiritually, and to progress together as one. Culture is easy to exploit & use to make war & overall turmoil between countries/groups.

Exactly. But the more we say it, the longer the thread hangs around. A real fucking Catch 22 .

Lmao the title of this thread reminds me of countless other threads and statements (a lot of them can be found over on Youtube) that lead to the assumption that every famous tough guy (or anyone who has ever played a tough guy-role that's famous) is at least partially of Albanian descent

I know quite a few Albanians and 2/3 years ago news coverage on the "Albanian mafia" was booming. It was a hype that could rival that of the big blockbuster movies. Back then a lot of the younger Albanian guys were incredibly (and I do mean INCREDIBLY) proud about the fact that their race was at the time supposedly the most feared and that their criminal organizations were the biggest, the baddest, the best (which in all honesty was complete utter bullshit)

As they get older they mellow a lot. And the so-called "Albanian mafia" isn't the big topic of the day anymore, so that explains.

^^^^

It's very telling that a single indictment and subsequent conviction (the Rudaj crew) put that media obsession (the so-called Albanian Mafia) to bed.

It made good copy for a couple of years. But no one remotely knowledgeable about the life believed it for a second.

I hadn't even really read anything beyond the first and last pages of this thread. I love history, though, so I can't resist any opportunity to talk about it.

Who did Arnold squitieri meet in 2002 I think it was , were they Albanians or Russians ?? They threatened to blow the gas station up , squitieri eventually came out on top and they backed off

That was the Rudaj crew, Dom. They got thirty years and the media finally stopped predicting an Albanian-Italian mob war .

Yeah I thought they where the rudaj crew , cheers pal . Hope u and the family r well

Right back at ya, pal .

In Europe that hype was even worse than in the USA. They even went as far as to claim that the "Albanian mafia" controlled 70% of the world's (not only Europe but the entire WORLD) heroin trade LMAO

The media is constantly searching for something new and fresh, even regarding organized crime. Ethnic stereotyping is never far off. Over here we had the Greeks first, then came the Turks, then the Moroccans, the Georgians came shortly thereafter and then there was the infamous Albanian hype followed by a much shorter lived Chechen craze. Currently the next hot subject are the Calabrians: one large criminal family of Calabrese roots (not even born in Calabria) gets arrested and all of the sudden the media speaks of tens of families holding entire neighborhoods in a vice grip. It's absolutely ridiculous.

Absolutely. Sensationalist journalism has its roots in Europe for sure.

Tell me about It
The pompous writing style is often even more disturbingly irritating than the actual message itself

The best is pages 1-10...Classical just like Mozart!

No offense taken I just had my smart ass syndrome turned on. Lol

The ladies said he was Gigante by name, Gigante downstairs.

That's why he's Big Tom.

Yes he came from Pianna degli Albanesi, Provice of Palermo. Joe is my Great Grand Uncle, my great t grandfathers brother.

Esposito Gigante are Neapolitan. The "extended" family of the Gigante emigrated from Italy to settle between New York , Westchester County and more generally Connecticut and Massachusetts .