italian-american assimilation

is it true that most italian-american men are getting assimilated in to the american culture. i read somewhere the mafia had a hard time finding recruits because most of the italians didnt think of themselves italian but american. and that those other italian-americans dont have the same culture and traditions like the older guys. is this true and if so does it have big impact on the influence of the mafia.

That is true, it happens to all nationalities in time. We can expect the same here in the Netherlands for the Turkish minority, somehow the italians and the turks have the same ties to the old country. The Italians are loosing it though.

Assimilation happened a long long long time ago. Even in the Mob's hey-day which people argue about when that exactly was, but even in that pre-appalachin time it wasn't some honorable lets-do-it-for-Italy kind of thing. It was about money and survival. Always has been always will be.

ties to the old country have a lot to do with the house your brought up in. if u still have family there (a lot dont), things like that. Tons of italian americans have zero ties to Italy/Sicily, not just this generation but previous generations as well.

If anything the 'decline in ranks' has more to do with gentrification and suburbanization. Even though the tri-state and basically the whole north east has a ton of italian americans, there are no real enclaves anymore as their used to be. rightfully so though. everywhere is accessible due to better public transport and cars. you dont need to spend your life on the 6th floor of a 250 year old decrepit walk-up on Elizabeth street if you have the money to go out to Long Island and have a yard and all that.

Theres always gonna be italian americans, and there's always gonna be kids wanting to make a quick buck who just can't live legit. the mob will always be around in New York.

There was a time when there could be substantial benefits for an Italian-American guy to join one of the families. Especially considering upward mobility in mainstream society was more restricted for one reason or another. Obviously that's no longer the case. Now, a smart Italian-American guy is going to want to make it big in the legitimate world rather than enter a life of crime. Especially a life that has been in decline for decades. So it's not only a case of attrition of quantity but also of quality. Less capable, less intelligent guys wanting to be in the mob.

Personally, I think the disappearing Italian enclaves factor has been overblown. The one upside, for the mob, of Italians becoming more ingrained in general society is they weren't confined to their own neighborhoods and only the rackets within those boundaries. They were able to expand which, among other reasons, is why they were able to bridge the upper and underworlds.

reason i am also asking this i dont remember if it was the times or nypost but one of them said the wiseguys were really a bunch of dumbasses who couldnt even point out italy on the world map. and because those newer ones are losing their traditions like the vow of silence and their believe in family ties. there where actually guys who ratted their own fathers.

Yeah I think it was also Michael Franzese who said mob guys today (young guys) couldn't point to Italy on a map. Maybe he has a point.

and then you got those guido's like jersey shore who are just a shame for italian-americans. and a lot of italian-americans probably also dont know italian anymore.

It was former FBI agent Joe Pistone who told the New York Post: “They [the younger generation] don't have the wherewithal to cultivate the politicians and judges. Most of these guys couldn't point out Italy on a map.”

Women and Bootleggers

The Italian WOMEN are the ones that decided to NOT ALLOW their children to speak Italian outside the home so they can be considered real Americans and speak English.

I know that my own grandma and her cousin were spat at for walking on the sidewalk instead of the gutter. And my grandma's cousin gave that man such a beating with her pocketbook. This is what we Italians had to go through in the early 1900's. This is why there were wiseguys to PROTECT the Italian people from all the discrimination. We couldn't trust the police the government why would they help our people. During ww2 the Italian ppl were considered enemies of the U.S. They had curfews allowed to go only to and from work. Of course there's more I can add but that's enough for now.

Bootlegging made us all rich and we were able to dig ourselves out of the gutter.
Every Italian had a bootlegger in the family:)

Oops maybe I shouldn't use the word rich but we had money

Italian chicks are semi-hot/10

First off, only 2 or 3 were actually italian on that show. One was half puerto rican.
They were a total disgrace and made a mockery of italian americans. Just like the soprano's , with their kids cursing at the dinner table. That ever happened in my house , my father would of chopped my head off and still made everyone finish everything my mother made.

Amen to that, kid. Amen to that .

Snooki was raised Italian she was born in Chile as was Lilo Brancato who is Colombian.

Not sure if I read this here or somewher else but isn't Michael Franzese adopted too?

I hear ya, Beanie. But if we're looking to prove that environment trumps heredity, those two may very well be the worst two examples known to man .

What a waste of talent by that kid....he obviously had a bright future ahead of him after starring in a movie as a kid with Chaz and DeNiro !

PB, To your knowledge, is Michael Franzese adopted?

He's legally adopted. But he claims that he found out years later that Sonny was his real father anyway. Barring a DNA test, which we'll never get, who the Hell knows?

Don't use "Who the Hell knows" with him. he rather you use God only knows!

Very clever!

And in all fairness to Brother Michael, I've heard that he takes his Born Again Christianity VERY seriously. So good for him .

I don't begrudge people who REALLY turn their lives around. It's not like he's Sammy the Bull getting his kids involved in drug dealing after getting a get-out-of-jail-free card .

Franzese has a Movie coming out that he filmed in Israel. It's called, God The Father.

Here is his newly redone website:

http://michaelfranzese.com/

Here is the Trailer:

http://godthefathermovie.com/g/?page_id=35

Do you actually believe this though?

The majority of Italians and Italian-Americans were not involved in organized crime or the mob.

Yes some were; but this does not mean that the majority of people were since they were not.

Would making wine at home be considered "bootlegging"? I mean it's not buying it in a store. I have Italian relatives who did this, and they still do it but they do not sell it they just give it away to other family members and friends, or share a small glass of it with people during a dinner.

Also a lot of old Italian immigrants I have met and their kids who are first generation Italian-Americans did not like the mob and said how the idea that they were somehow protected by the mob was a myth. They said that the Italian mob would extort money from local Italian run mom and pop run businesses.

^^^this is absolutely true.

"We're trying to protect & help our socially ravaged communities! Now here, fork over 20% of your measly monthly earnings"

It's never been about honour or anything like that. These people are thugs.

.

AG


Tony D

Curious about something Turks are in the minority you said. That also means they are probably the poorest in your country is that right?

How do you heat your house? Do the Turks heat their places with dirty coal right? What do you use?

The poor is where the real crime is its like that in every country.

As long as their poor that is where Illegal money can be made.

The majority of Italians were NOT criminals.

Nope I do not believe making wine at home is bootlegging. It's just a tradition. Everybody did it.

The truth of the matter is that Italian families were fairly large in number. Most but not all had a relative or two or three who were willing to get into the bootlegging business during that era. They are already making their own wine at home so why not make booze and turn it into a profit. There's a LOT of money in it. Most Italians at that time weren't educated in their own native language and had no job skills. So it's a quick way to make easy cash for the WHOLE family. Remember this is a time when you live in the same house or right next door to ur relatives. So now nobody is going hungry. Now the family has money more money than they've ever seen in their life. So what do the responsible ones do like my family? They use that money to start up businesses, to buy property and that's exactly what they did.
I was told that this was very common but it's a hush hush subject cuz people don't want to say that their families started out as bootleggers.
We can argue all day about this but I know what I was told and this is what was happening in the Italian families who got themselves out of the gutter in the 1920's.

As for the protection from the gangsters I was told that the Italians came over and settled with the same people from their villages. So we all started out together as just Italians seeking a better life. You have to stay in your own neighborhood. The police are not going to help your kind. You are AFRAID. So now all of a sudden you see Tony D who decides to become a street hood n you've known him from Italy since you were a kid so you trust this guy. He says he can protect you and you believe him so you pay this friend who is now a hood. Protect you from what? Sometimes things did happen like a thug comes into YOUR STORE in YOUR neighborhood trying to rob you. Who do you go to Yup, Tony D... And he will sure as hell get a hold of that thug and give him a beating, get the money back for you and of course take his cut. And that's just how it works.


So go ahead u can say whatcha gotta say to me but in the end
All I gotta say to u guy is this ---Unless u know what I know U DONT KNOW NUTTIN

Footreads, Holland is actually pretty good with supplying the basics. Even the poor are ok out there. The highest crime I noticed out there was in moraccan neighborhoods. But of course some turks do their dirt too

There's a big Muslim population out there?

Yeah big time. I think amsterdam is only 30% dutch at this point

Wow .

Yeah its something.. it's happening all over Europe. Even greece. I don't know about italy but I'd be surprised if it wasn't happening there too. Muslims go in and seek asylum or whatever, and then of course their 25 kids come over and they all expect the countries to cater to them. And since Europe is a pretty liberal place they tend to get their way

Post-WWII Europe is a socialist, pussy-footed wasteland. The Muslims, North Africans, & eastern Euros that emigrate there these days are a hell of a lot tougher/more respectable that a modern Dutch/French/German limp wristed nancyboy. Of course they go into these countries & go hogwild.

I was watching a doc on the Morroccan people who have settled into Italy and how they account for most of the business in the travel industry. So much so that Italian people have opened up travel agencies to set these people up in buses so that they can go back home to visit.

Sadly, that's pretty much accurate in some parts of Europe .

Yeah you would be shocked to see Europe these days. It's kinda scary since those places are so liberal you're barely even allowed to comment on what's going on right in front of your eyes. These countries have cultures that go back thousands of years and in just a few generations they're losing their own homelands due to some misguided liberal BS. It hurts seeing greek neighborhoods right in the shadow of the acropolis that greek people can't even walk thru anymore cause it now belongs to albanians/africans/pakistanis, etc. Not to mention tthe depletion of public resources. People here think it's bad with Mexicans but they have no clue. I don't mind Mexicans at all, at least they're normal. Half of Europe has women walking around in those beekeeper suits with the ninja mask on and they aren't so friendly with their host countries. It friggin sucks..

Sounds like the north side of Queens if you ask me.

Yeah I noticed that in astoria actually. That's one thing, since it's America and these things are cyclical. But in europe it's like erasing thousands of years of history. The Muslims in europe say they will conquer Europe thru votes in the next generation. They don't even need wars. They can just exploit our weak laws

I have to say the truth. I'm middle of the road politically speaking. But the conservatives have the right idea about the Muslims. It's enough already.

I'm no tea party type myself. I couldn't stand George W but I'm also not too big on Obama. But yeah the Muslims push it too much. They need to conform to their new countries. Not the other way around

Dog breeds like Rottweilers, Pit Bulls, German Shepherds etc (Men's breeds of dog, breeds that were previously the pride & joy of their respective countries) are becoming banned in these countries, as their tough, rugged, brave dispositions are frowned upon in these places. Just to give some examples.

Any signs of strength, individuality, bravery, free will, are extremely discouraged. It's very sad. America is well on it's way towards the same fate.

Ehh, I say if the Muslims are cunning & driven enough to overthrow a cowardly western European governmental system, more power to them. They've certainly earned it.

If the natives really cared, they'd oppose it. Instead, they're too preoccupied with being politically correct & breaking their backs to make the Muslims feel comfortable to do anything about it.

.

Sounds like America if you ask me.

Believe it or not, Europe is a thousand times worse. The only people who speak against the Muslims taking over Europe are the far right neo nazi groups. In greece it's xrisi avgi and I've heard of more in other countries. If they aren't blatantly nazis then they're labeled that way

Oh, I know that. I was just breaking some Lefty Liberal balls .

And the prob with Muslims?

They HATE you. The democratic, multicultural, free progressive society THEY have moved to, they HATE.

They believe in THEIR beliefs and tolerate no other.

Talk about fucking irony.

Muslims as PEOPLE aren't the enemy. But make NO mistake, their belief system is. And its incompatible with modern western society.
The sooner the differences and incompatibilities are TABLED and RECOGNIZED, let alone discussed, the better we will be.

Because a free, democratic, multicultural system is not on ANY Islamic future agenda.

Trust that.

Thats what happens when you transfer a 3rd world belief system in one generation from pre-oil to post and attempt to integrate it with a society which has had that transfer for 100's of years and many many generations.

But they sure are quick to jump onto that western idea of human rights whenever deportation is brought up. Also I'm thinking maybe Europeans don't want to start cracking down on one specific religion with the memory of WW2 in their minds. But if they let this disease fester for a few more generations until their countries are unrecognizable, I think they're gonna end up doing something like that.

And if anyone thinks thats crap then look at 3 points:

1. The amount of Islamic counties which are democracies.

2. The amount of Islamic countries which have separation of church and state.

3. The amount of Islamic countries which are 1st world.


The answers?
1. MAYBE Turkey. Out of 188 countries ONE is remotely democratic. 1/188, TELLING.
2. NONE. ZERO.
3. Out of 188 Islamic countries barely a handful have made it to first world status. Pre-oil... None.

Turkey was full of greeks until fairly recently so they tend to act more human, but the more inland you go, the crazier they get. They still have honor killings and all that. I think the only reason the west part of Turkey is halfway normal is so they can rake in tourist money. The Greeks right across the water made a nice living out of it and the turks wanted their piece. Over time and seeing different cultures, they probably figured that ultra religious life was bullshit. But nobody is vacationing in Afghanistan or Saudi Arabia so they have nothing to push their brains to modern times. Just crazy Muslims surrounded by crazy Muslims

This is probably the best post you've ever made. And that's not an insult, it's a compliment .

Even a blind squirrel finds a nut occasionally

I'm partial to saying that even a busted clock is right twice a day. But six on one hand . . .

Squirrels don't wear watches

I doubt you're even Italian-American. If you really were you would know how much Italians and Italian-Americans do not like the mafia or mob. You also would know how they do not like how the mob does extortion to their own people, and Italian/Italian-American owned businesses as you wrote hypothetically in your post. The whole "We protect our own and look after other Italians/Italian-American people and businesses" idea is a myth. The mafia wants to make money and doesn't care about taking it, forcing it, or extorting it from other honest Italian/Italian-American people and their businesses.

Aha ha ha ha not Italian American you are a funny guy will you christen my kid?


I'm just repeating what I've been told by family members. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. You make a good argument. I'm sure there are people who agree with you.