This is interesting

An FBI file from the Mary Ferrell site that a poster over on the Real Deal found. It contains a 1964 conversation between Thomas Eboli, Pasquale Eboli, Gerry Catena, and Michael Genovese. It goes on for 26 pages. Very interesting stuff....


http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=94973&relPageId=1

Thanks for posting! Great stuff!

Yes, awesome post....thank you Ivy.

My favorite part was hearing how Mario Gigante begged Eboli to give some deadbeat a beating!

Excellent stuff - Eboli clearly figured out that Carlo Gambino and Tommy Lucchese were setting up Joe Bonnano, and that Catena did not see it.

It is an awesome find. That Mary Ferrel site has some great stuff; its just the matter of trudging through all the files to find the gold. Most of the articles are no where near as interesting or as easy to read as this one.

Its a spin out to see how big mouthed some of the old timers were, around the time the feds started blackbugging, & before the wiretap became the standard assumption in racketeering cases. For example, the Sam the Plumber tapes, or Stafano Maggadino's tirades against Joe Banana's, and so many other cases.

In the early days, especially during the immigrant generations, one could understand how stirring oratory would have been respected & almost essential. But times have definitely changed.

post more..

Here's one from 1962 involving Gyp DeCarlo and Little Pussy Russo. They talk about the conflict between Genovese and Costello as well as about Jerry Catena in New Jersey and other families around the country.

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=141729&relPageId=2

Does anyone know if the Sam the Plumber & Maggadino tapes / transcripts are posted online anywhere?

Awesome find! Thanks for posting! Pages 14 and 15 were amazing! The part where Eboli thought he was gonna get whacked...man it was like reading a page from a good book. great stuff

Here's a big chunk about the Milwaukee family and it's relationship with Chicago. There will likely continue to be a lot of info to mine from this site....

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=95092&relPageId=9

Thats great. It like an account of Frank Balistieri's rise through his suction with Joe Alioto. He's always been one of those big-little men to interest me. With his kids arguing over his "riches". Another great Mary Ferrel find, cant wait to see more.

post more:)

Great stuff!

It's easy to forget that wiretaps were used back then because the press didn't cover the mob like they do today. Plus, having a corroborating witness was highly improbable back then. So, without a conviction, I guess these documents just fell into obscurity.

Good work, Ivy!

Man the good old days the big guys just running things and having fun !

You can pretty much find anything LCN related on Mary Ferrell's site, god bless her soul. I'm currently reading through a document on Tony "Tony Jack" Giacalone.

Man, haven't seen Ivy or PB use an exclamation point in excitement since I joined. Amazing what years of trolls and trash posters will do.

P 23 they are talking about five guys getting killed in South River. That is mind blowing, I never heard of that many guys getting hit at once except for the Valentine's Day Massacre. I doubt South River had five recorded murders in it's whole history.

Yea and at the time federal wiretapping laws werent in effect so everything on these and any tapes pre 1970 i believe are inadmissible..just solely for LE intell gathering

This is a document I bring up a lot concerning both Bonnano and the politics of the genovese at the time. They were kinda in disarray a little bit.

I replied to this document before; I found it a fascinating demontration of how a savvy gangster focuses on power over money. Like Carlo is demanding the copa, not cause he really wants or needs it; Its like a test to Jerry Catena to see if he will aquiesce to demands, and Tommy eboli picks up on this.
It kinda reminds me of something I read about Castellano; he found out the Gambinos got a smaller share of the Garment district and went beserk, not at the money, but that he as top boss didnt get the top cut.
The way they have Jerry not discuss the Commision with his family to isolate him, what cunning...
The references to the closenedd with the outfit.
How Tommy Ryan DIDNT understand why Giancana would go for the story Carlo and Luchesse made up, but Giancana did have beef with Bonnano...

Yes good read. Tommy Ryan was a real gangster he seen rite threw Carlo but said Tommy brown was the gangster. So Tommy Ryan gets whacked in 72 seems had to been funzi t. Jerry c was in prison but why benn squint go along seems they were all close. That 26 pages show why there will never be any thing that organized like them 1000s of guys in line waiting o. Commands.

Corlos gambino played everybody for a sucker back in those days, gambino was behind eboli's death, carlos probaly had spies within the genovese that was telling him every step eboli made

From what I read Tommy Ryan flat out hated gambino I wonder if it's true he died over drug money it doesn't make sense he boss Vito died in jail for bs drug charges why would Tommy Ryan get n a deal with Carlo. He hated him and wasn't afraid. I've read chin probaly killed him but that is a good mystery I read scarpa file see if it sheds any light. They whole fight over the coppa. And Jerry c not even wanting to be the boss is intrig. Why did Carlo keep Mike morranda out the mix. Ivey your great with links could u post some more about Jerry c and the whole westside cluster fuck back then. 1970-73 was alot of shit in that family. Vito really liked Benny.

He was right on the money. Im of the opinion Luchesse might have been the top boss of his time period. Maybe not head of the biggest family,but he was feared, respected, politically connected,and there was no way Vito, Carlo, shit even Luciano get anywhere without Luchesse.Remember, he tipped Lucky off that Maranzano was going to kill him..

Jerry Catena was fuckin filthy rich, I read something once that he had a piece of an oil rig and had 20% of the Dallas cowboys or some shit; But it illustrates something about those genovese guys I pointed out in another thread; Lucky,Costello, Adonis,and you can kinda see the continuation with Catena, these guys were like criminal businessmen first, kinda aloof when it came to the politics of the streets. You can see how Catenas lethargy hurts the Genovese position on the Commision, what Eboli was trying to tell him. They Kept Catena away from Mike Miranda because Miranda is someone who would be savvy enough to read those guys;Catena was clearly great at business,but a little slow at plots and intrigue. This lethargy cost the Genovese family thier position of primacy, and its clear that soon as they had the chance, benny, Gigante, and those guys, once they had the power, started to undo all the shit Carlo did in the 60s...

Tommy Ryan was calling Carlo a degenerate behind his back, maybe Carlo found out? The drug story was always a bit far fetched imo.

You serious? Neither of the three could get anywhere without Tommy Lucchese? Frank Costello had just as much, if not more political connections than Lucchese had, and he was a Luciano subordinate and was the Commissions go-to-guy when it came to political corruption.

Lucchese tipping off Luciano to his name being on Maranzano's hit list isn't exactly an example of power, it's more so a portrayal of collusion of the younger guard, and that they most likely had been planning to get rid of Maranzano anyway.

Another great read between pussy Russo and gyp in 62 they say Frank and Vito talked it out in jail said there sorry Vito told Frank he had tried him and all was forgiven and Vito had him reinstated as a soldier not to be touched. So Frank was probaly semi active threw out the 60tys till his death. Pussy predicted his death they killed Tommy Ryan and that's probaly when boot got the OK to kill him. Scarpa said funzi order it 75 76.

Okay this question is veering off topic but I don't think it deserves its own thread so here goes. Since first hearing it on the Sopranos and many times since I gotta ask what is the origin of the nick name "Pussy". Obviously it doesn't hold the same meaning in LCN circles as it does elsewhere. Maybe PB or someone else can chime in and shed alittle light on this?

He had an older brother, both were also supposedly pretty good cat burgalars back in those days, his brother was also a made guy in the Bioardo Genovese Crew. His older brother went by the name of Big Pussy Russo. So evidently, being the little brother, and a good thief they called him Little Pussy.

Little Pussy was later murdered at the orders of The Boot, under suspicions of being a rat. Fact is he probably wasn't, but he talked too much, and wasn't very liked by pretty much anyone after a while, and his older brother was somewhat his protector. Once Big Pussy died, his death notice was sealed.

One, after Costello took the L at the Keafauver thing, his wings were really clipped; His power WAS his political connections, once he got the bad press, Luchesse had the edge on Tammany Hall. Its Like look at Gotti; he cant become boss without Frank DeCicco setting it up, same with Lucky and Luchesse, Luchesse coulda just let him die. And it IS an example of power, information in that life is everything, without it is Lucky is dead. Also with Luchesse competing with Costello, he and Genovese become close; Now tommy is already a BOSS, Vito needed Luchesse to back him on the Commision, Carlo needs Luchesse to back HIM on the Commision, and Luchesse needs BOTH OF THESE GUYS TO TAKE OVER THIER FAMILIES SO TEHY HAVE AN EQUAL VOTING BLOCK ON THE COMMISION. Lucheese, to me at least is the key guy in all of this. What did Tommy say? Luchesse was the gangster... And Carlo was cunning, but I dont think he coulda won a war without Luchesse, y he sued for peace once Luchesse started slowing down..

He could've let him die. Maranzano would've remained boss, there wouldnt of been a commission and Lucchese wouldve been passed over in favor of Joe Bonanno due to his closeness to Maranzano, something Lucchese didnt have. Its not an example of power, and at the same time while you say "without Lucchese Luciano wouldnt of became boss", at the same time without Luciano, the American Mafia would've went a totally different route throughout history.

Lucchese also probably wouldnt of lived very long, because Bonanno, who had Maranzanos ear and tugged on his coattails wasnt at all fond of Lucchese. You think Maranzano would've just stopped at Luciano? Ask yourself what Lucchese would've stood to gain from ratting out Maranzanono to Luciano, why didn't he just keep his mouth shut if the definitive explanation is the result would have been so positive for Lucchese? The fact that Maranzano was threatened by Luciano, to the point where he supposedly had his name at the top of a hit list, after Luciano got rid of Masseria and effectively became the head of that family, I think shows who was more influential and powerful of the two at that time (Luciano & Lucchese).

You've given Luciano way too much discredit these last few threads. He didnt invent the Five Families, he wasnt this supreme being. But at the same time, he was already ahead a lot of his counterparts and didnt NEED Lucchese or anyone else other than his immediate allies to get as far as he did prior to Maranzano's death.

So Vito has Tommy ryan as acting boss for NYC but still takes orders from Jerry c who has the final say and Mike m whose consig. Tommy Ryan had a office in Boston there's a convo between Jerry a and Ray p who say he the acting boss they liked him. He also set up tony stroller. Lot of s

I used to feel the same way, until I really started looking at things; I used to think Luciano was the biggest bootlegger, then I read George Remus was the "King of Bootleggers". I'm like okay... I read An estimate that said Luckys outfit grossed 12 million a year in 1925, right? Then I read at that same time period the Outfit was estimated to be grossing 105 million dollars a year? Isnt that crazy?
But I get your point on Luciano, thing is I kinda feel the same about Capone, like the myth is bigger than the man. And yeah Luchesse maybe dies if he rats out Lucky, but consider;
A lot of Bonnanos animosity towards Luchesse stemmed from the fact he knew he set up Maranzano. Now Lucky KILLED Maranzano, and Bonnano made a deal in five minutes, my understanding was that HE started to chafe under Maranzanos dictatorial style as well.
And the Riena outfit was an early defector towards Maranzano, I think he was confidant in their subservience, which can be dangerous...

The lion and the fox. - Nicolo Machiavelli

This is great, thanks for sharing Ivy. This makes me think of something. Would it be of interest if we start a library of this type of information (e.g., FBI files, FOIA stuff) for the site?

Lucky wasn't a boss in 1925 though so you can't compare what Lucky did vs what the entire Torrio outfit did at the time. It would be better to compare the outfits top crew vs luckys operation.

Just read all of the links brilliant read. Can anyone post anymore?