the consigliere

the consigliere has always been a position i didnt really understand what there role was in the family??? at first i thought he was always a older mafioso who was more or less retired and just acted as a advisor to the boss but over time i have learned thats not what it is at all and it is a very powerful position. Could some1 please give me a accurate description of a consigliere and what they r responsible for?? do they run there own crew?? Are they under or equal in power to the underboss?? And when te money goes up the ladder from solier to capo to u underboss and then boss where is the consigliere. Thanks

My understanding is that it is usually the number three position in the US groups (formally speaking). But the particular powers and responsibilities depend on the family.

Sometimes it's an older guy; sometimes not. Usually the counselor doesn't have line responsibilities (crews reporting directly to him) but this isn't always the case either. Some counselors want to remain hands on. There are examples of counselors directing hit teams and so forth and so on.

There are some people who have acted as the stereotypical wise advisor/fixer (Murray Humphries). There were other guys who were semi-retired and only gave suggestions to the putative boss but the counselors have so much power that their "suggestions" were often really orders (Accardo in Chicago was a good example of this type).

Many times the counselor may get a piece of whatever the boss and underboss get. But the counselor is not the person who speaks for the boss in his absence-that's usually the underboss. And for the most part there haven't been too many counselors (Caponigro was an exception) who became bosses upon a boss' untimely demise from a sudden case of death or upon permanent incarceration. Many times that is a captain, an underboss or a driver/bodyguard.

The original idea back in the 1931 structure creation was that a consigliere would be someone who knew the family inside and out, knew the rules, could settle minor issues that the boss didn't want to deal with, occasionally represent the Family in meetings/disputes and even provide appeal to soldiers within the Family if the boss made a bad decision. This last was pure malarkey of course as any consigliere who wanted to keep breathing never disagreed with the boss.

Yeah, the Consigliere was meant to be a guy who everyone in the family knew and respected.
A man who could be trusted to be fair and impartial when reffering a dispute between 2 family members.
The Consigilere was usually the man who the boss trusted most for advice and information.

Does any1 have any info on who the acting consigliere is for the Patriarca family is ?? The charts here say carmen dinunzio is the conigliere of the family but he is doing a 6 yr fed bid so i guess i wanna know who the acting consigliere is at this time, or who may b the lead candidates to step into this spot?? thanks

Assuming it's true that DiNunzio is the new official consigliere, it's even less sure who would be acting consigliere at this point. There was that recent article that said Mark Rossetti was it but who knows? There may not be one at all.

hey guys just wondering does the consigliere have a specific crew kicking up $ to him ?? i guess where i get confused is a associate kicks up 2 a soldier who kicks up 2 his capo. The capo collects from all his soldiers and send a % to the underboss. The underboss gets all the payment from the capos takes his piece and send the rest up to the boss?? Assuming this is all correct where does the consigliere come into play? How does he earn??

Traditionally speaking, the boss, underboss, and consigliere are all part of the administration. They all get a part of the tribute kicked up by all the captains.

Hey guys I am trying to learn more about the consigliere positon. 2 me its a fascinating positon I don't much about. I have a situational question. Let's say the consigliere sponsors a associate for membership. Umm let's say he is a nephew once he gets his stripes and is made wud he report directly to the consig since he sponsored him or wud he b assigned to a capo regardless ???

He would be put in with a capo. You can't just have a bunch of soldiers reporting directly to the consigliere or the underboss and not belong to any particular crew. This is why the chain of command is so important. The consigliere usually has a crew and while he may be the official captain of that crew, he's got an acting capo to run the crew. There are a few exceptions though.

consigliere seems like an important position to put an old timer in who's been around the block, knows everybody and generally gets along with everybody. i think it's weird in the 80s-90s with a lot of the new york families after the commission case the consiglire turned into a bullshit position. not talking about the genovese but the other guys. like the luccheses putting in frank lastorino or the colombos putting in carmine sessa. from the outside looking in those guys looked like general run of the mill thugs versus a wise old time guy. putting in yes-men or guys you like personally because they've made you a lot of money versus someone worthy of the position seems like a big mistake IMO. i wonder why families even have that position anymore tradition notwithstanding it just doesn't make sense today

How about Gotti actually giving Sammy his choice between Underboss and Consigliere?

How f'n stupid was that?

You basically summed it up. The position of Consigliere is really not the traditional image people have in mind anymore. I wouldn't necessarily call it a bullshit position. It's just changed. But it may be becoming obsolete simply because the formal administration of a boss, underboss, and consigliere is becoming more and more rare as the families increasingly use acting bosses, ruling panels, etc.

In Italian, consigliere means "adviser" or "counselor."This position is typically someone who provides an Inpartial or Unbias opinion on family business. The Consiglere usually decides sit down disputes. You will normally see the Consiglere does not have a major criminal record and most families will try to keep him out of the day to day criminal activities. This is usually because the Consigliere also mediates disputes between other families as well and they are no good to anyone in the can.

As for the position itself, The boss, underboss, and consigliere constitute a three-man ruling panel, or "Administration." of any particular Mafia family. Do not mistake this for a "Ruling Panel" This is just the Administration, just like most normal business have.

Consigliere is generally the number three person in a crime family, after the Boss and underboss in most cases. Typically you will see the Consigliere run day to day operations of the family if the boss gets pinched until an Acting Boss is decided.

Most people believe that even thought the Underboss is held higher in ranking at the number 2 position, the Consigliere actually holds the second most power and authority, behind the Boss. this was in the pre Rico days though, I do not think the position is as powerful by any means today.

As for how he gets paid, Captains very rarely will kick up straight to the boss himself. Typically they kick up to the Consigliere and he takes his cut of the score. Most of the time the Administration of the family divides all the kick up 3 ways, of course with the boss getting the most share.

Hope this helps a little, I could be wrong on some of this but this has been what I have researched, read and watched over the years on the position.

In todays world it almost seems like the consigliere is more important than the underboss. In a few families its safe to say the boss and consig have stronger relationships than the boss and underboss. Examples like philly and new england make me think if the boss passed away or went to club fed the consigliere wud b a better fir to run the family. In philly if ligambi was out of the picture it wud b hard to argue that staino wud b a better boss than angelina even if marty is underboss. And in new england if limone was out of the picture you wud think one of the dinunzio brothers wud have to take over since they lead the much larger boston faction and are said to b limone's top guys

The Gambino's spring to mind.
I'm sure Castellano would much rather sit next to Joe N Gallo at a table than his Underboss Dellacroce

Would the consigliere ever be in charge of a area or are they not that hands on . A example of what I mean is say new england . The boss and underboss are said to be boston guys at this time. Is it possible the consigliere is a providence guy and he is responsible for running that area??

Then Gotti asked Sammy what his favorite scene in The Godfather was.

The traditional idea of the consigliere is, of course, an older, semi-retired guy who simply advises the boss from time to time and really doesn't have any other role or executive power aside from perhaps helping to officiate at making ceremonies or attending high level meetings. But it seems, especially in more recent times, that consiglieri are more "hands on" than that. They oversee certain operations and/or territories.

As for the Patriarca family, the boss position has gone back and forth between the Boston and Providence factions down through the years. Until recently, Manocchio was the boss in Providence, while DiNunzio was the underboss in Boston. Now it seems both positions are in Boston. Nobody has been positively identified as the consigliere of that family for several years now. They may not even be using one.

If the Consiglieri is more 'hands on' then he used to be, will that affect his role as an advisor to the boss? I mean from the point he is 'hands on' he will have certain interests. That means he's most probably gonna protect that particular interest. Or is he capable of letting it go when the 'family' needs true advise.