The Craziest Gangster?

Which from the list below do you think was the "Craziest" gangster in the history of The Mob?

Bugsy Siegal
Vinny " Mad Dog " Coll
John Dillenger
Al Capone
Joe Gallo
Sammy Gravano


Don Cardi

Me personally, I wouldnt consider John Dilllenger a gangster, but out of your list Id have to say Mad Dog or Crazy Joe.

DC, I'd have to say, "none of the above":

Bugsy Siegal--Got his "bug" rep as a kid. As an adult, mostly a (ruthless) businessman.
Vinny " Mad Dog " Coll--that name was given him by the newspapers after one of his attempted hits went bad and he killed a little kid with a stray shot. Otherwise, he was a fairly conventional thug-for-hire.
John Dillinger--your basic bank robber, made into a popular hero (ironically) by the FBI's efforts to aggrandize themselves. He was a font of sanity compared with his sometimes gangmate, Baby Face Nelson, who was a real nut-case.
Al Capone--his only real "craziness" was caused by his tertiary syphillis. Committed two murders as a teenager, one as an adult. That's all.
Joe Gallo--he created the "crazy" name for himself to make up for the fact that he was small of stature and needed a "rep" to enforce his will as a small time racketeer.
Sammy Gravano--definitely a methodical killer, but always in the cause of business or personal advancement, usually when someone told him to kill. Something like a Nazi war criminal: "I vas unnnly obeying orders."

IMO, the crazy Dons were Albert Anastasia and Carmine Galante. Anastasia committed more than 50 murders by his own hand. As Don, he ordered the murder of Brooklynite Arnold Schuster simply because he gave the cops a tip that led to the arrest of Willie (the Actor) Sutton, a bank robber and prison escapee who had no connection to the Mob. To me that's crazy. Galante was a stone killer and sadist who ran the Federal lockup in Lewisburg, PA, like Nero ran Rome, and whose cruelty was legendary.

Out of those that you mention above, I would have to say Anastasia then.

That's why you are the "MOB HISTORIAN" my friend, and I do mean that with the utmost respect!


Don Cardi

how about Jimmy the gent in real life they said he was real crazy at times.

Don Vinnie-Jimmy would seem gentle as a lamb comparred to some of these other guys like Anistasia or Genovese.

Damn, I can't remember his name but he was the brass in the Irish gang of the Westies. What's his name guys? He was nuckin' futs.

You're probably thinking of Jimmy Coonan, Mickey Featherstone and Richie Ryan, three definite nut-cases. But they did have enough sanity to run a successful cocaine racket, until they went away.

Featherstone! That's it! Thanks, man! Yeah that whole gang was not right. They couldn't sell coke cause they broke the 3rd rule of Scarface...You can't get high on your own supply. You don't wanna be in debt w/ the mob. That's the lime pit treatment.

Yes Turnbull, you are correct about Joe Gallo. I just finished reading "The Sixth Family" and even though he was called Crazy Joe, he really wasn't crazy at all. In fact he became a pretty educated person in jail, and after his release he surrounded himself with some very "high society" intellectuals. I think that he got the name Crazy because of the the big b**ls that he had.
So maybe my original question should have been "What mobster had the biggest B**LS?"

Don Cardi

Another thoughtful question, DC.
Probably there are many examples. One that stands out:
John Dillinger may not have been the brightest bank robber, but he might have had the biggest gonads (note non-gender-specific term ). Some of his gang were arrested and imprisoned, and he sprang them by smuggling guns into the state prison. Then he was arrested and held in the jail in Crown Point, IN. The jail was surrounded by state police and National Guard troops, with sandbags and machine guns. The local sheriff bragged that Dillinger would never escape. But Dillinger managed to carve a phony pistol out of wood, color it with black shoe polish, and then used it to get out of his cell, back down almost a dozen guards, get past the troopers and Guardsmen, and make his escape--in the sheriff's car! Later, he had himself photographed holding a Tommygun in one hand and the phony pistol (which was little more than a "barrel") in the other. That's ballsy, IMO.

Al Capone circa 1941.

what about Tommy de simone. he was pretty crazy

"Mad" Sam DiStefano - This guy was insane. He took pleasure in torturing his victims. That's where Tony "The Ant" Spilotro (Real life inspiration for Peschi's Character in "Casino") learned it.

I just watched Dillenger, last night had to watch it twice it was good. This guy was nuts, had class, humor, I enjoyed the movie. When he took Baby Face Nelson for a walk and beat the shit out of him . Outstanding

I want ya all to know I searched, Dillenger and this hare is what come up.

SC, ya gonna give me award or somethin, yea I know ya would like ta give me somethin

nicky scarfo, milwaukee phil alderisio, sam giancana, sam destefano, carmine sessa

Didnt sam distefano force his wife at gunpoint to suck some black guys dick to teach her a lesson?

Featherstone was batshit crazy back in the 70's. It was from a incident in Vietnam where they circumcised him. He used to kill people and then instead of jail they sent him to the nuthouse where he would get out fast and do the same thing again. its amazing he seems to be ok now in witness protection

yeah he was one sick guy, he forced some guys family to piss on him because he owed sam money ...humiliating

Destefano did indeed kidnap a black guy at random and force him and his wife (Sam's wife) to do it!!!!

Destefano also used to defend himself in court where he was known to talk through a bullhorn and come up with random statements such as "have you ever seen an elephant".
Destefano also as mentioned, tortured one of his own debt collecters who Sam believed was stealing from him by chaining him to a radiator for 3 days then forcing the mans family to urinate on him to cool him down!
There is also a story about Sam from way back in the 50's about him decorating his car with apples, oranges, lemons and grapes.
When cops pulled his fruity vehicle over they arrested him but found to their dismay that they couldnt actually find anything to charge him with!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Destefano was nuts............ and extremely dangerous!

nuts for sure...was he made into the outfit?

Vic Amuso, had a guy killed because he was into the gay sex in prison. He had another guy killed because he kept asking to meet him.

I read that sam was NOT made because he was very very insane, yeah I seen him in court shouting through a bullhorn "you dirty rat" lol - I especially like the story about his wife offering the agents coffee, and after several "accepted" beverages on different occasions they learned that sam was in the kitchen pissing in their coffee, just brilliant, Frank Calabrese Sr was pretty crazy - he killed a shit load of people while running a loan shark operation in Chinatown Chicago - and also complained because he was not asked to be part of the hit team that killed Tony and Michael Spilotro, but his brother Nick Calabrese was...He's in jail now and aint never getting out, I think he wants to kill his son's because one of them (Frank Jnr)ratted him out

Mickey Featherstone hands down> The State of NY will back it up too.

yeah his son and his brother both flipped on him. One of Nick Calabrese's FBI handlers said that if Frank Sr. wasn't such an asshole , the Family Secrets case probably would have never happened. If he treated his brother and son better they might not have flipped on him. After reading the Family Secrets book recently , Frank Sr. sounded like a real piece of shit

his son frank jnr got lured to a garage and was told to leave his car a block or 2 away and when he entered he said he seen "the thousand yard stare" and he knew then what was up, lucky he only got a gun in his mouth and told to behave himself...a lot of other guys got the rope, yeah I read he treated everyone in his crew including his brother and son/s like shit... "everyone was terrified that they would upset cheech(frank in Italian), you never knew what he would do" - he also told his crew to "do whatever you gotta do to collect a loan", but don't kill em - obviously

Anyone know why Frank jr. walks with a cane ?

Because his dog died.

i dont know if anyone else has been getting ur lil jokes lately but i think there pretty funny

and they just come outta nowhar

lol I also found that quite funny, but seriously I think he's got multiple sclerosis - fuckin horrible

Your Right , he has MS in both lower legs

Thanks gk , good job !

reading mob killer about half way through (really good), Charles Carneglia had a life size cut out of ayatollah khomeini in his garage - and unless he's using it for target practice i'd say thats pretty crazy...

Gonna have to check that out .

Pretty Louis Amberg was nuts. He used to screw with future members of Murder Inc. without retaliation because they thought Amberg was super psycho and capable of anything.

So many to choose from, how do you pick just one?

Louis Amberg killed and his car set on fire he suffered both shotgun and axe wounds before his death (found on the same day Dutch Schultz was assassinated) when asked if there were any suspects, a police detective reportedly answered "Yeah, Brooklyn."

I think no American gangster, even the most bloodthirsty one, could measure up to the Italian ones in terms of craziness. Among those, I think the craziest was Filippo Marchese. He ran a so-called “room of death” in Palermo and enjoyed watching his victims being tortured while masturbating and snorting cocaine. That’s really sick. Even Totò Riina thought he was too out of control and had him killed after using him in the mafia war.

he looks like a mean sob



theres another picture of him..but I dont think it's him

Must be a before and after shot ! He went ta shit like some of us do ! Second pic. " Can ya belive this fucken shit after my sausage and pasta ! Get the Fuck outta hare , or ya have any Pepto, soda water , I need ta lay down ! Go Fuck your who ever ! Ya prick ! I am one mean SOB ! Iffen ya are good send ya a fresh fish ! I should be a mentalist ! Any one got a cup of tea, and a 5th of Beam ! Just asken !

now I look at it I think it is him, same eyes, hair and ears lol, just not got the beard, and he's gained some weight ...and is older of course ..I'm sure it's him

Gotta go with Sam DeStefano.. Some of the stories are just unbelievable!!!

Dyno DeStefano was Moe Giancana's pit bull, and he was by far the most psychotic, ruthless Italian gangster in American history, there's just no question. And Giancana's Forty-Two Gang that DeStefano ran with was easily the toughest, most powerful street crew in American history, they were just too brutal. Capone & Nitti were terrified of them, and they literally reduced Cicero to absolutely nothing, until Joey O'Brien resurrected it.

Also, regarding the Calabrese family, let's put it this way: They are/were clowns, that is why you know their names & their drama, and that is why 2 of them are rotting in prison & the other is all over the TV. They were a few steps above the Spilotro bros., nothing more. Never ran any crews, always did dirty work. Family Secrets really didn't mean much at all, the Outfit wanted it to seem like a big deal to draw attention away from street action. Trust me, I live in Chicago, the Outfit is very, very much alive & real, we see it every day.

You're not just playing around are you? Cause this is very exciting to hear if it's true. You actually live in Chicago? PIcs or it's not true!!

Can you imagine this, Carmela? We actually have an authentic person from Chicago in here who seems to know a great deal about the outfit? I´m amazed. And this guy was apparently around already in the 1930s! Because he knows who ran the outfit at that time! Never mind the cops, prosecutors, crime investgators, judges, crime historians and everybody else who dealt with the outfit. They knew nothing! Listen to this kid, and you will learn something.

HAH! Wow, so ignorant AND rude/impolite is the name of the game around here, eh? I won't partake in any of that..as Joe Batters himself once said "We're gentlemen in Chicago".

This was your quote from another thread. Not so "gentlemanly" if you ask me:

Wow, okay I'm new to this site, but I have to say, the ignorance when it comes to the mighty Chicago Outfit is absolutely laughable. You people really haven't the slightest clue...It's quite astounding, really.

And, as Carmela once said...I don't know a damn thing about Chicago. What I do know about is when a new poster comes on like gangbusters trying to show off, while simultaneously trying to take members down a notch or two. Take it easy.

Show off? Knowledge is knowledge. For example, I don't know horse shit about the New Orleans faction, nor would I pretend to. That particular post was directed at another member that was spewing some real laughable stuff, it had nothing to do with you. No need to get confrontational with a complete stranger.

Follow your own advice, Bridge. Don't come into a new place blasting away as you've done today. Slow down and listen to what others have to say. You don't have to agree with them and you can argue your own point but do it calmly.

Sorry, didn't know there was a point to be had. Once again, I said "I'm from Chicago" & this "carmela" individual made a rude, inappropriate comment. Another distasteful comment was made (for no apparent reason, mind you) and that was about the extent of it. We weren't agreeing/disagreeing on anything. If you're referring to the other thread, Anthony Accardo was NEVER ever the boss of the Chicago Outfit, ever. That is not something that is up for debate, it's just fact vs. nonsense.

Which rude/inappropriate comment are you referring to? I don't see any.

yeah I never seen any rude or inappropriate comment either.. personally I don't think this guys playing with a full deck - when I started to read what this guy was saying I thought it was a joke, maybe someone trying to take the piss a little.. but he is for real

'carmela' & 'Hairy Knuckles' both made rude, inappropriate comments, completely unjustified. Just scroll up & take a look.

What have I said that would lead you to assume that I was "not playing with a full deck"? Please elaborate on that

Bridgeport. I didn't make any rude comment. On this board. Today.

I see you're a bit sensitive, though, so I will refrain from posting to you again. I don't want to make a man cry. On this board. Today.

Hmmm, I believe you did. Poking fun @ the fact that I stated I was from Chicago? How is that not rude? Especially when nothing was said to you in the first place.

I am not upset, but don't play dumb

Bridge - Congrats on your first warning. From now on, check the attitude at the door before you come in here. If you can't play nicely with others you'll be relegated to the sandbox.

Remember ... WARNING #1 was given.

I can play nicely.

"You're not just playing around are you? Cause this is very exciting to hear if it's true. You actually live in Chicago? PIcs or it's not true!!"

"Can you imagine this, Carmela? We actually have an authentic person from Chicago in here who seems to know a great deal about the outfit? I´m amazed. And this guy was apparently around already in the 1930s! Because he knows who ran the outfit at that time! Never mind the cops, prosecutors, crime investgators, judges, crime historians and everybody else who dealt with the outfit. They knew nothing! Listen to this kid, and you will learn something."

Comments like these made towards a complete stranger, completely unprovoked, are not playing nicely.

toatlly provoked by how you came off and at people. like its great if your interested in the outfit. and its even more wonderful if you have some vast knowledge and would like to share it. but you can't come at people the way you do. your already off to a bad start.

"Dyno DeStefano was Moe Giancana's pit bull, and he was by far the most psychotic, ruthless Italian gangster in American history, there's just no question. And Giancana's Forty-Two Gang that DeStefano ran with was easily the toughest, most powerful street crew in American history, they were just too brutal. Capone & Nitti were terrified of them, and they literally reduced Cicero to absolutely nothing, until Joey O'Brien resurrected it.

Also, regarding the Calabrese family, let's put it this way: They are/were clowns, that is why you know their names & their drama, and that is why 2 of them are rotting in prison & the other is all over the TV. They were a few steps above the Spilotro bros., nothing more. Never ran any crews, always did dirty work. Family Secrets really didn't mean much at all, the Outfit wanted it to seem like a big deal to draw attention away from street action. Trust me, I live in Chicago, the Outfit is very, very much alive & real, we see it every day."


What about this post in particular was antagonistic?

well .. fact vs nonsense as you said..

Accardo was not boss - Nonsense
Giancana was bulletproof - Nonsense

"You people really haven't the slightest clue...It's quite astounding, really" - N O N S E N S E

"The Chicago Outfit is & always has been second to the Gambino Family in the United States, and it always will be."-nonsense
or was it Genovese Family? - anyway also nonsense

Accardo - I actually find him to be one of the least interesting figures throughout Outfit history. (how can you say that and expect us to buy it), Nonsense again ..

You also said Giancana put a stop to Accardo holding lavish parties at his house and he was maybe gonna get whacked for buying it.. big Nonsense

I'll stop there because I could go all day ...just trying to show you why I got a problem with what your "facts", and as far as common knowledge - I swear your the only one I have EVER heard say things like this ..

as someone once said on here... I was born - but not yesterday

don't take offense buddy..

Sam Giancana - "bulletproof"

Buddy, Accardo was a crew boss, yes, but NEVER the full-on boss of the Chicago Outfit. I understand that it is generally thought that he in fact was, but that is 100% false.

Moe Giancana IN HIS PRIME (meaning the years in which he reigned) was completely bulletproof.

If you aren't aware of these two FACTS, then you really haven't the slightest clue, sorry, don't take offense

I corrected myself on the Gambino typing error.

How is Tony Accardo not being a particularly interesting Outfit character not completely understandable?

When did I say Accardo was going to get whacked for purchasing the mansion? That mansion was bugged the fuck up, buddy, Accardo had the tendencies of a careless drunk.

Anything else?

"He toyed around with getting clipped/whacked when he purchased his River Forest mansion in 1953 & began holding massive, lavish parties, a HUGE no no within the Outfit. Giancana abruptly put a stop to that & the mansion was sold in 1961, with Accardo moving to a more modest, unassuming location." - you did not say this?

And yes, Moe Giancana was absolutely, positively the greatest American gangster that ever put on a fuckin fedora. He was everything a gangster should be & more: completely bulletproof, mingled with celebrities & ultra-powerful figures, walked it, talked it, and the Outfit was more profitable & powerful than it had ever been (and ever has been) during his reign. - You never said anything about "IN HIS PRIME"


"Accardo had the tendencies of a careless drunk." - I think your drunk

Anything else?

I think you should stop trying to instigate arguments & ask me some real questions on the Chicago Outfit if you're REALLY this interested.

Yes, him being a known alcoholic/party animal & purchasing that mansion got his superiors/peers worried & concerned, and their fears turned out to be legit. It was a complete catastrophe, and a great example of why he was never voted in as the main man.

In His Prime is implied, he didn't get whacked during his reign, now did he?

Anything else?

Bridgeport:

All of the available evidence and research that I've seen suggests that Accardo was direct boss or at very least shared power with Ricca after Ricca's release from prison. Then in 1957, Accardo, like Ricca before him, turned over direct day to day responsibility to Giancana. Accardo, whatever you wanted to call him at this point, still had authority over Giancana-however remote or indirect. Ultimately Accardo could tell Giancana what to do-not the other way around. This remained the case after Ricca's death and Giancana's "forcible retirement" . Accardo, semi-retired or not, still was first among equals in the Outfit hierarchy.

What evidence do you have to suggest that this wasn't the case? That Accardo was never boss? I would be very interested in reading it. Thanks.

well I guess your right ...we're all wrong.. is that what you wanna hear?, can't really be bothered arguing with you guy, I just wish Accardo was alive and like 105 years old - I'm positive he would swing his bat off your fucking head for this bullshit...and once again no offense but if I wanna know more about the outfit i'll ask someone who knows what they're talking about...

and no there is nothing else..

Absolutely untrue, besides the fact that Joe Batters "shared" power with Ricca, which was somewhat true, but Ricca still had final say on every major matter. Tony Accardo was a roach to Moe Giancana, lol. Come on now, you people actually believe this FBI-proposed nonsense? Accardo didn't pass the torch to anyone, Giancana was the obvious choice, he had everything you wanted out of a boss. No one had any type of authority over Sam Giancana, he was the greatest Outfit boss of them all, followed by Ricca & Aiuppa. Joe Batters knew he couldn't compete with guys like Ricca/Moe/Aiuppa and he was perfectly content with taking a back seat to those guys. It boded well for him, as he remained wealthy & healthy for a very long time, and avoided the slammer like a champ. But the main guy? Never, always & forever a consigliere.

In the book the Outfit and also in some of Roemer's books, there is a description of Accardo and Ricca summoning Giancana to a meeting in which they expressed profane displeasure with his management style and removed him from his leadership position. New front men were put into the spot but ultimate authority still rested with Accardo and Ricca.

So again, this sounds as if someone certainly DID have authority over Giancana. Consigleres don't remove bosses. Do you have any evidence that this story is inaccurate. If so please provide it to us.

No one had "authority" over Moe. It was universally decided that Moe should go away for a while. No one had any idea that Aiuppa/Cerone were going to make a play for power & force Accardo/Ricca into playing along. Moe knew he had to go away, he knew they were getting a little bit too close to the higher ups of the U.S. govt. for comfort.

Joey O'Brien's rise to power & claiming of the throne came as a surprise to everyone. Giancana treated Aiuppa & Cerone like dirt when he was in power, and it was a give-in that Aiuppa was going to take Moe/DeStefano/etc. out as his first order of business, and that's exactly what he did.

Joe Batters was a tough motherfucker, he is a top 5 Outfit figure of all-time, but he was never the main guy. No one with any real knowledge on the Outfit disagrees with that FACT.

Hmmmm....very interesting! However I am a bit confused. Perhaps you can help me understand what constitutes, or should I say, qualifies one to have "real knowledge" about the outfit?

Knowledge that wasn't obtained from books/feds/the internet.

So,in other words, the reason one may have "real knowledge" is because he or she has first hand knowledge?

Why make me go into that? I have some really good info so I thought I'd share because I have noticed there is a whole lot of BS about the Outfit on this particular website. Be thankful, ask me questions, I'm not a bad guy, nor am I a liar. I speak on what I know, that's all I've got.

how many made guys does the outfit have now?

I believe we went into this in another thread, or maybe it was in this one.

Currently, the Outfit has 175-200 "made" members, and upwards of 250 associates. The numbers could be much greater than this. The thing is, being "made" really doesn't mean anything in the Outfit anymore. If you're an earner, and you present loyalty, you're in. In some ways, the Outfit has always been about this, strictly about money & security, no matter what it takes.

can you please tell us how you came up with this figure?

So you want me to get into who I know & how I know these things? I can tell you right now, that's not happening.

Let's put it this way: You're getting your info from the Bureau that thought that Tony Accardo, Jimmy Marcello, & Joey Lombardo were actually prolific main bosses of the Chicago Outfit :-/ You're getting your info from guys that didn't know what the fuck was going on or who was boss during O'Brien's reign. You're listening to men that actually, seriously believe that the Chicago Outfit only has 20-25 made members TOPS & & 100-125 associates TOPS.

Where/when does it end? When will you realize that the FBI essentially knows jack shit about what really goes on within the Chicago Outfit. Local law enforcement more in love with & corrupted by them than ever before. Half of the feds that are supposedly out to get them are buddybuddy with them. So please, spare me.

As another user mentioned, www.americannewspost.com is the most extensive, revealing website pertaining to REAL Chicago Outfit knowledge available on the Internet. I don't necessarily agree with everything that Mr. Fosco does there, but he has his reasons & the folks that come there & have discussions under the posts in Fosco's 'Organized Crime' section are extremely knowledgeable on Outfit matters.

You come here, to the GBB, and make a lot of noise and disrupt the boards. You've been asked to tone it down, but you haven't. And now you plug a different website? Did you ask Geoff's permission to advertise a different site here?

You owe Geoff an apology.

i actually don't give 2 fucks about the chicago mob. they interest me about as much wet fart. i just enjoy asking you questions to see you ridiculous answers. if you really did know people in the outfit would they appreciate jerk offs like yourself coming on here and spreading this vast valuable information? believe it or not important people do read these sites. we actually had a user brought up in a news article a few months back because of his allegations of people being rats in boston. vinnygourgeous217 was his name. not my funny friend vinny gourgeous but the other guy. you really make yourself out to be very foolish. maybe you do know these people. chances are you probably don't. anyone who has been on the internet for more than a month knows that the high stake people are not to be believed. can you blame us for questioning your arrogant attitude? do you know how many insiders, and relatives, and real wiseguys we have had on this board? more than i care to name. or remember. and they all fit a criteia, they have less than 30 posts under the belt. claim outrageous claims in their first 10 and stir up a shit storm within their next 20. and you sir fit that criteria. prove us wrong. back it up with some facts. some cold hard evidence. more than just im not getting into that.

I don't remember targeting you or posting to you directly, or any of that. I don't know who you are, nor do I care to. I don't care about any of your goofy internet bullshit gossip, I speak the Truth. I don't drop names & I don't fuck around. If you would like to discuss things rationally, I would be somewhat glad to oblige you. I don't give a fuck about your goofy friends that post here or who posted here before or any of that fuckin nonsense. Unless you have anything of worth to contribute to the discussion, please refrain from getting involved. You obviously just want names/etc. & it's not gonna happen. You come off as a goofball wannabe, no offense.

Apologies to whoever Geoff is. Another member "plugged" the site as well, why is not being persecuted?

I'm very thankful. You provide a lot of laughs for everybody, Bridge.



LOL! And then you woke up.



What a shock.



And you get your info from.....oh wait....that's right....you won't say. Because you have no source. Just the fact that you happen to live in Chicago and are 100% Sicilian. Which amounts to a hill of beans.



But why would we go to Fosco's blog when we have you? You already told us not to believe what we read online. I'm so confused.

If by "universally decided" you mean decided by Accardo and Ricca, then I agree.

Look, you are making definitive claims about events that occurred between 40 and 60 years ago. These claims just need to be backed up with some sort of evidence. That's all anyone is asking for. What are your sources that other members can investigate and evaluate for themselves.

If there is a ton of primary and secondary source evidence (wiretaps, informants, FBI files, etc) showing that from the forties through the sixties that Chicago Outfit top bosses were Ricca and Accardo and that they turned over day to day authority to others, then someone making a different claim needs to prove it.

Geoff owns these boards and the parent website. The chances are good that he'd have no problem with you advertising another website (he's very fair) but you should have asked permission first. It's a simple sign of respect.

You're new here. I'm not sure to which other member you are referring but he/she may have been around for awhile and more leeway is granted them when dealing with such matters. Maybe one day you'll be in that group, but it looks doubtful as of now. You're bringing a lot of grief on yourself with your arrogance and attitude. Chill and get to know how things operate here.

I understand what you're asking for, and I already said I'm not about to share information like that.

Paul Ricca was the boss of the Chicago Outfit during that time period, & Tony Accardo was the consigliere & fronted while Ricca was in prison. Moe Giancana slaved & burned his way to the top, he was under no one's thumb & no one had any type of authority over him, he was as real deal as it got.

Lilos got a good point. Theres a big difference between a informant telling a police officer that so and so is a drug dealer and then they use photos, wiretaps and raids and actually find drugs and evidence to someone who hears something on the street and posts it on the internet as fact.

This is the problem with posters that imply that they are gettin info from street sources i.e criminals, ex gangsters or whatever. even if you are able to talk with them their info is just as unreliable as any other source simply because they are as i stated criminals who lie, cheat and steal for a living anyway.

The Feds' main bug back then was Celano's Tailor Shop, a gathering place for connection guys & fixers only, primarily frequented Gus Alex & Murray Humphries, both jealous non-Italians that Giancana could not stand. All they got from that was braggadocio rants from wannabes. Roemer was also very close with Jackie Cerone, who thoroughly bullshitted him & his boys every step of the way.

'Family Secrets' was a bust too. They put a few senile old geezers away, who's kids have more ability/influence today than their fathers do. Very little information that wasn't already known was leaked from that trial, and a plethora of bullshit to go along with it. The Feds came out of the 'Family Secrets' trial angry, bitter, & confused.

Bob Cooley was the only one to really, really put a dent into the Outfit, and even Operation Gambat was largely unsuccessful. So Marco D'Amico did ten years, big deal. Now he's back & more powerful than ever.

Fact is, the Feds have never really been able to corner the Outfit, as much as they've desperately tried. Every time they get close, the Outfit retreats into the shadows & makes nothing noticeable. It's been going on for years & the Outfit is most definitely winning the battle.

Right. You're coming on to an internet board populated by people with high levels of knowledge about/interest in various aspects of organized crime and making claims which are the historical equivalent of "cold fusion". People, like any other group, are going to request proof. You can't provide it. So be it.

I'd definitely go with the majority having an "interest in" the matter, rather than possessing "high levels of knowledge about". I've spoken to 2, maybe 3 individuals here that actually know what they're talking about or are open to learning more about the subject.

When I say subject, I speak only of the Chicago Outfit. I don't know a damn thing about NY & you will never catch me posting on those matters.

ok let's speak rationally give us some proof. something. if you don't fuck around than im sure you would be more than happy to give us some cold hard facts. and i don't want names. i just want something more than "i just know" "im not getting into that" "im from chicago" and please, explain to me how im a wannabe? what am i trying to be? im just some asshole convicted felon on a message board. anything i say i back up. and if i'm wrong about something i admit it. ask anyone here that. i've often asked people to correct me IF i am wrong. not really trying to be anything. you on the other come off as a wannabe with your inside knowledge that appears to be some dreamland made up bullshit.

I'm not going to spill my guts & start listing off relatives or revealing things about my past just to satisfy some dopey goofball on a forum. Once again, if you'd like to discuss the Chicago Outfit rationally/thoughtfully, I'm all for it. But you don't know anything about organized crime here, so there is really nothing to discuss. You want to get into some he said/she said gossip queen games & I don't do that, sorry.

than why come on here at spout your line of bullshit? oh wait because thats what people as you do....spout BULLSHIT! just give your little spchill of your relatives and insiders a rest.

I've never spouted off a line of bullshit in my life. I noticed some individuals that in fact were spouting off bullshit about the Chicago Outfit so I thought I'd chime in with some actual truth. I'll continue to post & make my own decisions. Please refrain from responding to my posts & I will do the same. Good day, buddy.

this is a public forum. if your not in the buisness of backing stuff up than don't post.

And you made you're point, now you're just constantly repeating yourself.

http://www.xianet.net/2011/02/top-10-mafia-hitmen/

+1

Oh brother. Lombardo and Marcello were two of the top guys in the Outfit. Those were big catches. And who's kids are you referring to? Oh wait, forgot, you can't say.



Over the past few decades the Outfit has been hammered by the feds almost as much as general attrition. Which is why you don't see that many big cases in recent years. There isn't a whole lot left compared to the past.

While there were once 7 or 8 crews, today there are 3 or 4, according to the feds. By any estimate you want to go with, the Outfit is much smaller and more limited in scope. Some guys, especially the higher ups like DiFronzo, have legit money in things like real estate, D&P, strip clubs, etc. But the rest have the street stuff like sports betting, video poker machines, burglaries, etc. You have to go back almost a decade for when the Carusos were kicked out of the Laborers Union. And into the 1990's for an actual Outfit-related indictment involving the unions. The political and police influence is not even close to what it was decades ago.

I think that you either accidentally missed or intentionally avoided my question. I was not referring to YOU specifically, but was speaking in general terms when I asked you if you feel the reason that someone may have "real knowledge' is because they actually have inside knowledge.

What are your feelings on how one may obtain "real knowledge" on such non-publicized inside information?

Family Secrets did nothing to the Outfit. You think that Grand Ave. guys are just gonna pack up cause fuckin old man Lombardo got locked up? "Well Little Jimmy's goin away, guess we gotta hang it up" lol you're out of your mind. Those guys are OLD MEN, they have sons & underbosses etc. etc. etc. that are more capable & able than they are or have been in a very long time.

Nobody said what's left of the Outfit is going to pack up. But for one of the remaining smaller families outside New York, losing some of their top guys is a blow anyway you cut it. Other than Joseph Lombardo Jr., who was kicked out of the Laborers Union at the same time the Carusos were, who are these "sons and underbosses" you're referring to?

See what you keep doing? You keep making all these claims but refuse (i.e can't) name any names, cite any sources. Just "I'm from Chicago." Blah, blah, blah. What's the old saying? Put up or shut up.

As far as Grand Ave. is concerned, Pordyla, Vena, & Spina are still out & about all damn day last time I checked, and they were running things even when Lombardo was a free man. Lombardo, Jr. is one of the young up-&-comers mentioned, as is Rocco Marcello. I could go on & on, I really have no idea who you think you are or where you get your bogus info from..

And fuck D&P construction. You find that browsing on the internet as well? That's their bullshit little front company, the Outfit still puts 90% of the heroin on the streets here, the DiFronzo family is unbelievably wealthy. I won't even go into their other endeavors, locally, nationally, or internationally but believe me, you don't know a goddamn thing about Elmwood Park, they are extremely powerful in many many different ways.

If anything, Family Secrets was one of the sleepiest, most boring Outfit trials. Nothing everyone didn't know already (except the feds LOL)

Ok, now see that you intentionally avoided my question. That in itself tells me what you really are and what you are really all about. Thanks!

What do you really think to expect with all this? If you can't back up you're statements with proper sources, no one is going to believe you, period.

Any fool can claim to have inside knowlegde.

thats your favorite thing to say...... IM NOT GETTING INTO THAT

Look the FBI guys promised him a deal. So he made up a lot of stuff about the Chicago outfit 'cause that's what they wanted -- but it was all lies -- uh -- everything. And he kept saying -- Sam Giancana did this and Tony Accardo did that -- .uh -- so he said yea sure, why not.

I apologize for not addressing your question, DonCardi.

Obviously, if you were raised around this & have/had family members that were intimately involved in these matters, and if you live in the area & keep an ear to the street, you will have a much better understanding of what really goes on here.

Or you could listen to the FBI, the Bureau that thinks fuckin RUDY FRATTO is actually a high-ranking Outfit official.................................... :-/

Yo Tone it down cuz..tone it down! I'm gonna send the lions the lambs and the sharks to come bite u in ur ass! Tone it down!!!

Ha! You really are the gift that just keeps on giving. If you ever decide to take a vacation from your fantasy world and visit earth and reality for a while, you'll find that both the FBI and mob experts have said that the Outfit has largely avoided involvement in the drug trade. And the lack of narcotics indictments involving the Chicago mob have proven that. For more than the past decade there have only been a couple drug cases connected to the Outfit, none of which involved heroin. Look at the drug cases in Chicago. It's the Mexican distribution networks and the street gangs.

the outfit and the decalvacante's are really the only 2 families that i can really think of that haven't had alot of involvement in drugs within the last 20 years...or atleast to my minimal knowledge...im not an insider...just an asshole from pittsburgh....i mean i try and use good resources, perhaps i should just put my ear to the ground...

You would be correct. And in a way, it's smart of the Outfit to avoid it. I've often wondered if Ronnie Jarrett's involvement in the drug trade was one reason he was killed.

ne theories as to why the decalvacantes don't involve themselves in the drug trade? not like they have alot else goin on....

I'm speculating that to insulate themselves, they will lend that shark money to finance some deals to associates,guys that done there time in the past, have a reputation for violence,etc.

They can't be some squirmy lil bitch

It's a good question. It could be that they see it as too risky, though that seems unlikely considering the big bust in the late 1990's and early 2000's involved a myriad of charges including sports betting, loansharking, labor racketeering, extortion, selling hijacked goods, an armored car robbery, selling stolen savings bonds, etc. But no drugs.

I wonder if Joey "The Clown" Lombardo sold drugs.

Even though he killed my father, he was like my uncle.

EAT A D____))))))))))))

Im actually enjoying seeing B.Vet's claims getting shot to pieces. The Outfit behind 90% of the heroin in Chicago? LMAO. Im in fucking Australia and can tell all the evidence puts the lie to this claim.

Funny thing is that if he'd chilled out and come on a bit softer (or actually provided a SOURCE or some verification), people might've actually taken him a bit more seriously.

The sort of credibilty you're demanding in this sort of theatre takes years in the making, Bridgeport Veteran. You cant expect to be taken at complete face value when you're one dissenting voice against YEARS of research and differing information.

ANYWAY...back on topic, the more I think about it, Mad Sam has got to be up there. guy was a fucking nutter.

The Outfit used to rule the streets of Chicago. Other crime groups and gangs were subservient and deferential to the Outfit. But all that has changed. The Outfit lost control of Chi-town a long time ago. They are probably not even in the top 10 of most powerful crime groups/gangs in the city. Poor ol' Al Capone is probably rolling in his grave!

Yeah I use to shoot speedballs in my ass cuz there shit is good in chicago I grew up there I became a MAN! in the streets

WANNA HELP OUT??? LOL

You nailed it. Local guys will always have some insight to give. But because some of them want instant acceptance, and don't want anyone questioning their claims, they usually overplay their hand and kill their credibility.

IVY thats where you come in and Help out! Maybe tell them to buy a book or a poster or something LOL

Nah, just get some basic facts right.

Don't confuse him with facts, Ivy.

Dam I love goin thru the old posts on here.its even betr when people make n ass out themselves. Id b more willing to believe accardo was an informant then he wasn't the power in chitown.and I get that the outfit didn't always use a ceremony but almost200 made guys.c'mon that's jus crazy

I've always thought that about Accardo reluctantly! On the surface he just seemed to be very smart. Then you read Roemers book and it's just way to cozy sounding! Roemer or any agent for that matter shouldn't sound with so much flattery! I mean Roemer was the FBI and he's bragging for 40 years he couldn't get Accardo! If Accardo was a stoolie then it's almost as sad as finding out Santa Claus wasn't real. Accardo is the poster boy for what any aspiring street guy should want to be. He was shrewd, loyal, not a PIG like you see so many today, very business savvy! Hope it's not true.

craziest i ever met?lol, gaspipe,karate,... and cabert.

Lol.

Even though he was a piece of dirt, George Barone was a scary guy. You know when Longshoreman are handing you cash your a creepy person. That crowd back in the day was tough and there were no rules on those docks! There is something to be said for a single guy to put out that much fear!

laugh at me all you want you little pussy fuck,it dont bother me! cabert was a nut! i never went near gaspipe but he was easily the most dangerous guy in my neighborhood,even though he lived around twelveth avenue i think.pitera was like gotti,all ego! those guys were capable of gutting you if you spilled his drink.lol. talk about crazy,joe pescis character was 'based on' cabert!lol.

Gamms, these kids from Nebraska are just jealous! Don't let it bother you! Speaking of Casso, you ever see or meet Joleene? WOW! She is married to Gareci now! Talk about beauty and the beast!

yeah!they both used to show to saint doms for christmas eve mass!thats the only time i ever got to see him out side of the place on sixteenth avenue. every one kissed his ass even before he was vics guy he was a killer. no body dared to look at him side ways!or her either! lol.

shes with slick now?

I'm laughing at your cute little stories, gamms. They're entertaining

thanks bo!lol.

Yes. Can you belive he scored that! That kid is such a tool! He's about as slick as sand paper!

you shoul have seen that guy i was telling you abouts girl![the big 'beak' lol.] old dog has got some blood hound in him i swear! lol.

and 'lcn1987',send me a message instead of this public bickerig its childish.and i refuse to do it! so lets continue this in private or be a gentleman.

[quote=gamms]you shoul have seen that guy i was telling you abouts girl![the big 'beak' lol.] old dog has got some blood hound in him i swear! lol.

Really? See its the things that you would never guess! Yeah Slick is a joke! Joke!

LCN1987 why you trying to scare everyone on the board that avator is pretty cool I have to admit I'm jealous I wish I woulda picked it first

You can have it too, Dickie.

You refuse to do it after seven pages calling IvyLeague this and that? Lol. Whatever, I'm putting you on ignore. Had enough of your stories, and EastHarlemItal. You guys should meet in real and jerk each other off.

LCN you ignored several pages I provided also, ignore whomever you want. I went back and read your threads. You add nothing to a conversation. Your condescending attitude is funny. Always correcting or mocking someone trying to add to a topic. Your crutch defense of "says he knows a mobster" would work, however I have not used that statement once. So do us both a favor and ignore the conversations I participate in, between you not adding any substance and you not liking the fact I feel the area and SOURCED information I use doesn't bode well for a healthy conversation.

Sammy DeStefano. Why do some of you people think DeStefano wasn't made? Who are going to believe, Bill Roemer who thought Joe Ferriola was the Top Boss of the Outfit in 1986 ( It was really Sam Carlisi)

Sammy DeStefano was 100% made and belonged directly to Giancana & Ricca.

If Sam was made, then the craziest gangster (subject of this topic) must have been whoever decided to make him