"Once Upon A Time In America"

Wow,Where have i been all these years I seen the film for the first time today!
Just excellent...very deep -4hr'sDe Niro, James Woods, Joe Pesci, Elizabeth Mc Govern, Tuesday Weld.
What did you all think of this film?

Most definitely one of my favorites. How great was the casting in that movie of the 'kid' versions of those characters? I thought that the resemblences of those young characters to their older characters (like the kid who played young cockeye, the young version of DeNiro, Woods, etc.)was just uncanny.

Great movie with a great storyline and some really great actors.


Don Cardi

Absolutley one of the best films I've ever seen.

Yes- just excellent.
Don, Did James woods really jump into that garbage truck in the end. My guess he did not & who's son was that young man could it of been Noodles son from the rape 30yr's ago?

Its either Noodles Kid or Maxs..

Or then again it could be all just be one big Heorin trip..

I consider myself a mafia/gangster movie buff, but I have to sadly admit that I have never seen this film. Can someone give me a short summary? From what I have read it is definitely worth my time to watch it. Pesci and De Niro together are always good IMO. Any comparisons to other films?

Ace

Pesci only in the film for about 10 minutes in total,a class film you should check it out...

i saw it and honestly, i found it good but it seemed kinda wierd for some reason.

Yeah I know what you mean

One of the best movies ever made, I consider it is just as good as The Godfather I.

A terrific movie, but oh so sad. I have to prepare myself to watch it because it almost brings me to tears. Even though it's about the underworld, it is also so much about the passage of time, getting older, the road taken and not taken, love and lost love ... yes, I have to prepare myself to watch it.

Simply a super movie!
One of the best ever!

Overall an AMAZING movie. DeNiro is so good as Noodles. Honestly anyone who HASN'T seen this.... SEE THIS MOVIE!!

i thought it was a good film nothing more or less

Yes he did. And if you listen closely it sounds as though a gun shot goes off at the same time. I think that he actually shot himself when he jumped into the truck.

That young man was the son of the James Woods character Max aka Senator Baily.



Celtic - I suggest that you watch the movie again. And make sure it's the long version and not the edited version. It's really an excellent movie and one that almost requires a second viewing in order to pick up the small details that are sometimes overlooked during the first viewing.

In my opinion it is probably one of the most underated mobster movies ever made.




Don Cardi

I just bought it for £8 can anyone tell me, did i spend that money well?

yes definently Donpacino De niro is surperb watch it watch it watch it now!!!!!!

I'm going to watch it tommorow morning quite early as I heard it was 4 hours, is that true?

dont think its 4 hours..it is soughts long but you wont notice..its a great film..i only saw it a couple of weeks ago..im gonna buy it myself soon

It seemed to move very slowly, and the disc kept skipping so I never got to finish it.

Yes, the long unedited version ( which is the the only version to watch btw ) is about 3 hours and 45 minutes long. But it goes very fast.


Don Cardi

The original script was 317 pages in length!!!!

At the end of filming, Leone had about 8 to 10 hours worth of footage. With his editor, Nino Baragli, Leone trimmed this down to about 6 hours, and wanted to release the film in two three-hour parts.

The producers refused (partly due to the commercial failure of Bertolucci's two-part Novecento) and Leone was forced to further shorten the length of his film, resulting in a completed (i.e. scored, dubbed, edited, etc.) film of 229 minutes.

Leone has said that ideally, he would have liked the film to be "between four hours ten minutes and four hours twenty-five minutes" (250 minutes to 265 minutes), and that such a cut would mainly have served to restore scenes developing Noodles' relationships with women.

Important scenes which failed to appear in the 229 minute cut:

Young Noodles returns to his tenement, discovering his parents at prayer, and no dinner on the table.
When his parents criticise him for being 'godless,' Noodles retorts that money is his god.

A brief scene in the 1921 sequences, showing local ganglord Bugsy (James Russo) and his gang being arrested by the police for bootlegging while Noodles and his gang looked on. This would occur right before the gang's meeting with the Capuano Brothers at the harbor.
The main importance of this scene would be to establish why Noodles' gang is working with the Capuanos. Dialogue from that scene indicates that Bugsy had been working with them, but since he and his thugs have now been jailed, Noodles and Co. have taken over his old job.

Shots of a black limousine tailing Noodles.
An ominous garbage truck, used as a link between 1933 and 1968.
Senator Bailey arguing with an older Jimmy O'Donnell about a pension scam, just before Noodle's climactic meeting with the former.
An opium-induced flashback of Noodles and the gang as children.
Scenes of Louise Fletcher as director of the Riversdale cemetery.
Noodles' first meeting with Eve, and many other minor scenes with Eve. In the original shooting script, this occurs after his rape of Deborah (which happens at night, rather than early morning). A very drunk Noodles meets Eve in a speakeasy and goes to bed with her, calling her 'Deborah'.
Scenes of Noodles watching Deborah performing a Busby Berkely musical scene at a nightclub, just before their date, as well as scenes from Shakespeare's Antony and Cleopatra. (The DVD's picture gallery feature includes an image of Elizabeth McGovern dressed as Cleopatra and holding a snake.)
A scene of Noodles talking to the limousine driver before the date with Deborah. There is clear enmity between the two characters, highlighting the way in which Jewish gangsters are perceived by fellow Jews. The reason that this scene was cut was because producer Arnon Milchan, who played the chauffeur, felt that he should not have had such a noticeable role in the movie, and he did not want people to make a big deal out of his cameo.
A long scene involving Police Chief Aiello (Danny Aiello) and his involvement with the strike breakers. (Some of the scene's dialogue was reworked into the brief interview with Aiello on the steps of the police station in the final version.) As a follow-up to this, a scene where the gang plans the famous baby-snatching scene with crooked politician Sharkey (Robert Harper) was also shot. Noodles wants to kill Aiello, but is convinced not to by Max and Sharkey.
A brief scene during Noodles, Max, Carol, and Eve's vacation to Florida, where a lifeguard, having heard of the repeal of Prohibition, digs up a bottle of liquor from the beach and drinks it thirstily.
An older Carol (Tuesday Weld) revealing to Noodles that Max had syphilis. In the original shooting script, this scene (set between the beach scene described above, and Carol and Noodles' scene outside the Federal Reserve) also has Carol revealing the details of Eve's death to Noodles: "Oh, how she waited, but you never showed up... She shut the windows and locked the door, and nobody bothered to check. She was in there all the time, with her little capsules...there was nobody at the funeral but me." (The latter part of this scene may never have even been filmed, since Eve's death is depicted very differently in the final film.)


These scenes were all shot, and the footage still exists. However, it is in a very raw state, not dubbed and not edited. Leone and his editor wanted to finish these scenes for a later release, but were prevented from doing so by Leone's death.

I would love to get my hands on the deleted footage.



Don Cardi

DonPacino, did you ever get to watch it?

Did Leone ever discuss a sort of successor or something along those lines...someone who would be allowed to reincorporate those things if it were possible?

Because I wonder, now with unlimited space on DVD's with Blu-Ray, whether studios won't begin having two versions of every film - the theatrical version, and the "complete" sort of version. One would be much cheaper and for the general audience, but the other would sort of be criterion-esque. I know I'd snatch up a OUATIA criterion set.

That's a good question JJ. I haven't found ANYTHING that indicates that there was some sort of successor to do this.

Even an 'extras' dvd would suffice.

I am currently reading the book that the movie is based on and I now see that Leone really was trying to capture the depth of the characters, especially Noodles, and that is why he shot these extra scenes that never made it into the final cut.

Yes, I ordered it off play.com for 6.99. It was in a box which said the movie and more on. I enjoyed the film and it showed a different view on crime to The Godfather and Goodfellas. I thought the actor who played young Max looked a lot like James Woods. It was a 2 disc set but right in the middle of an action scene the disk finished so I had to put disc 2 in. The flashback scenes to when they were kids are my favourite, I think its the 1910's? I liked the movie and thought James Woods was excellent.

Glad that you enjoyed it. If you really think about it, almost all of the child actors had a striking resemblance to the actors that played the older characters.

Definitely one of my favorite movies. One that absolutely requires at least a second viewing.

It was more than just a goodbye visit. It was much deeper than that.

Ah I see.

Why did it not win any Oscars I would have given it Best PIcture, Best Director and Best Supporting Actor, but I haven't seen the films that won oscars in that year.

And at the same time he is showing Max that he is finally at peace with himself. It's almost as though any bitterness and guilt that Noodles had carried within himself throughout the years has now been drained from him, as though this tremendous weight has been taken off his back.

Yes I see now, thanks DC!

There are some who believe that Noodles was dreaming the whole thing while he was in his opium stupor. However I do not believe that theory.

Here are some tidbits about the movie :

In preparation for his role as David "Noodles" Aaronson, Robert De Niro requested a private meeting with renowned crime boss, Meyer Lansky, upon whom the character was loosely based. The request was denied.


The actor at the end who walks up to the garbage truck was not James Woods, but an actor made up to look like James Woods.


Joe Pesci originally auditioned for Max, but Sergio Leone convinced him that he wouldn't be quite "right" for the part. As a favor to Pesci's friend Robert De Niro (the star of the film), Leone told Pesci that he could pick whichever of the available roles he wanted as his own instead. He chose the part of Frankie, which was considerably larger in the original script than it is in the finished movie.

"The Myth is Everything" - Sergio Leone

DC, I'm not the biggest fan of the opium theory, but consider this:

For centuries, people of culture around the world considered mind-altering narcotics to be a "key" of sorts to going outside the body and exploring the universe, through time and space. Marijuana, LSD, and especially Opium were such tools for such "voyages."

Your point is well taken. But I just never believed that it applied to the events in this movie. And now reading the book, I am even more sure that the opium theory does not apply.

I was off of work yesterday, and I was looking for something to watch. I was flipping through my DVD collection and came across Once Upon.... I hadn't watched it in a long time (because of the length), so I sat down and watched it.

It is quite possibly the greatest film I've ever had the pleasure of watching.

Next to Godfather and Godfather II, it's probably my favorite gangster movie.

It may be infamita, but depending on my mood, it's probably better than GF I and II, to me at least. It's really that great.

Best film of the 80's.

It's not an infamia. It's almost , on the level of The Godfather. Not quite, but almost. Perhaps a step or two below it, but very very close in my opinion.

They're all great films, and it's difficult to compare apples and pears, but I think I'd lean more naturally toward Once Upon a Time in America now; it really is a fantastic, fantastic film.

You're right Capo. Same basic genre, but two different kinds of stories / films.

I just found a brilliant article on OUATIA.

Click here:ONCE UPON A TIME IN AMERICA

Thanks PB. I remember reading that article a while back and was trying to locate it again to post here. But unfortunately I could not find it. Thanks again for finding and posting it here.

Great article.

Well i just bought this movie and watched it last night.I really enjoyed it and didnt mind what so ever that it moved slowly.I liked how alot of scenes were drawn out.This movie has a nice feel to it.I have to watch it again though as i found myself getting a little lost as its almost 4 hrs long.I dont compare it to Godfather but all in all,a great film.

I always enjoy the start,with the long long phone ring,it gets picked up but still carrys on.

Yeah when i chucked the movie on,my girlfriend was in the bedroom and she yelled out"what the fuck are you watching>A phone ringing non stop on the tellie".I even thought to myself"pick up the bloody phone"

I'm not sure. Maybe our Oscar expert Ronnie can weigh in?

I'll say this, the watered down two hour cut originally released in the U.S. greatly diminished the film itself and in turn it's chances of Oscars and such.

I watched it again today and enjoyed immensely.The first time i viewed it i had missed alot of subtle things which were needed.Plus i was getting a little confused with the plot.Annoyed,i put it on again sat down and didn't move from the couch.WOW..what a film.Superb story line,feel,acting and directing.The flashback to their child hood days are fun to watch and very entertaining.Im hoping it wasn't meant to be an opium induced dream.That would seriously wreck the movie for me.Anyways i would probably give it 9 / 10.Brilliant film.

A great film that is all the things that you say above. Most definitely one of my favorites. I can tell you that the story is not meant to be an opium induced dream. If you liked the film that much than I strongly suggest that you read the book that the film is based on called THE HOODS. Reading the book will give you such a deeper understanding and even more of an appreciation of the film.

Here is a LINK to the topic that discusses the book called THE HOODS

I can't find this book anywhere in UK,its not even on ebay or amazon..

ABEBOOKS.COM

The Hoods
Grey, Harry
Bookseller: Zardoz Books
(Westbury, WIL, United Kingdom)

The Hoods
Grey, Harry
Bookseller: Quartermelon
(United Kingdom, ., United Kingdom)

The Hoods
Grey, Harry
Bookseller: THESAINTBOOKSTORE
(Southport, ., United Kingdom)

Thanks for that DC,its just that ive got so many books to read im ganna wait till buying this..

Thanks for that info DC.I appreciate it.I will purchase the book for sure.I actually just watched the Making of Once Upon.... and it showed the book.Cant wait to read it.

It take it's out of circulation in shops..

What is De Niro smiling about at the end?Its almost as though he's relieved it was all a dream.

Not at all. Watch the complete ending again and listen closely to the conversation between he and James Woods.

Ok i'll watch it.Could you tell me DC what i should be looking for?

Or maybe he's just very high on Opium(sp)...LOL

Yeah, but on a serious note..it almost looks like a smile of relief..i dont know im going to watch it today and i'll see what i pick up.

i like to watch this film 1/2 times a year,like all my mafia films

It may be a smile of relief. But not for the reason you're thinking.

Damn!!I just watched it DC and honestly im still trying to work it out.!!!!...I get it soon enough!!!

Well, I guess I'm in the minority on this film. I didn't like it. I mean over all, I didn't like it. The first half was pretty good but, the second half I just didn't get. Like someone said here, "it seemed kinda wierd ". I agree!

I no way put it in the same catagory as GF,GFII, Goodfellows or even GFIII. JMHO.

Maybe if I watch it again? We'll see.

Rick

Watch it again my friend. And make sure that it is the longer version and not the short, edited one.

It's really a brilliant movie.

Hey DC.Ive watched it again.I still dont know what Noodles is smiling about. Im obviously missing something.What is it??

Check your PM

The film has some parallels with the Sopranos. While many viewers of both are expecting climatic action, the authors are simply following the protagonists journey through life and its slings and arrows. In the Sopranos, we got to see Junior progress into elderly age just as we see Noodles do the same. We witness the changes in them, their old companions, even the physical urbania they used to haunt. But also in both, we get to see the consequences for the sins they have committed.

I always thought though that the ending of America was a little like the ending of 2001 - a little enigmatic.

One of my favorite films.

Anyone who is a bit puzzled with it can try reading an early screenplay:

http://msb247.awardspace.com/docs/once.rtf

and the film transcript:

http://msb247.awardspace.com/docs/film.txt

and the Hoods is available for $1 as an ebook:

http://www.mobipocket.com/en/eBooks/BookDetails.asp?BookID=33250

Apart from the garbage truck, another aspect that a lot of people find puzzling is the SMILE at the end of the film.

I used to think that this was just one of those unexplained puzzles in the movie, which is down to the viewer to decide on its significance and meaning.

I do not really want to go along with the theory that everything after 1933 was an opium induced dream but the smile did seem to fit well with that theory. Noodles dreams of his past and his opium enhanced imagination conjures up that Max engineered the whole thing to pursue a lucrative career on his own. There is of course the deaths of his friends - but this was probably down to Max - and the rape of Deborah but in his imagination he has met her in the future and whilst she is a bit cold towards him, she is still on speaking terms with him and optimistically things may get better. His conscience is clear and he can smile again.

However after viewing the scenes again and looking at Noodles clothes and tie, this is total rubbish. Chronologically the ending smile comes before the scenes in the opium den at the beginning of the film. Noodles has seen the devastation caused to his friends by his betrayal and goes to the opium den to seek solace. He loosens his tie, lies down on the cot and initially the opium pipe brings relief and he smiles, as depicted at the end of the film. However gangsters enter the theater looking for him, the chinaman brings him an infusion to wake him up and coming round from the effects of the opium he remembers the deaths of his friends.

A great touch - the ending coming before the beginning.

The use of opium by Noodles is explained, as well as the rape of Deborah, in the book THE HOODS. After reading the book you'll have a much better understanding of these things, and will realize that the whole opium dream theory is pure rubbish.

We all must decide for ourselves the meaning and significance of the smile.

I have read the book, the screenplay, the dialogue transcript and watched the film several times. I would prefer it if things after 1933 actually happened rather than being a dream.

If like me you don't agree with the opium dream theory, I am not sure how you can say that Noodles is smiling in 1933 because of something that happens in 1968.

The book does throw up a few thoughts:

- what was Harry Grey/Goldberg's real name?
- are most of the facts in the book true?
- did Max actually dupe Noodles in real life?
- why was he in Sing Sing prison?
- what did he do after 1933?

Good questions, all.

I too, have read the book, browsed the screenplay and seen the movie many times. I've never much bought into the whole opium dream theory, especially after reading the book. However, it should be said, that all of the "contemorary" scenes were from Leone's imagination, not Grey/Goldberg's, so how can we ever be sure?

As puzzling as some people find it, I love the ending. I always have.

I agree - I love the ending and many other parts of the movie.

Grey and Leone did have several meetings prior to the film being made and whilst I understand that Grey was initially a bit reticent, I am sure that Leone will have plucked some useful facts from the conversations.

Hey msb!!!Welcome to the boards.I personally love this film and i too have spent much time pondering the ending.I think ts up to you yourself to believe what you want to.But it sure would be nice to know how Leone viewed it.

I'm not sure if this has been posted before but there are some wonderful links on this site, including interviews with Leone: Once Upon A Time In America Homepage

Thanks for the link PB.Appreciate it.

Thank you for the link PB.

I've put together a few useful links and free downloads on:

http://msb247.awardspace.com/downloads.htm

This movie is brilliant, saw it 4 times already. The 2 disc set is amazing.

I read in a film magazine a while back about the other beginning to this film. It sounded good, its below:

A car full of gangsters is being chased by a police car in modernish - ish New York. The gangster car goes into the river and sinks to the bottom.
The camera then moves from the car, along the river bed, and each car it passes, it gets older and older, until the camera comes back out of the water to reveal the old New York.

Anyone remember this?

I just saw this film today and overall I thought it was pretty good. I wouldn't say it is the best gangster movie ever made but it is still well made with great acting. As for the future part of the film being a dream I find this unlikely because how would Noodles know about the 60s in so much detail in a dream? I think the whole point of the movie would be pointless if it was just a dream.

I watched this movie two weeks ago for probably the 5th time. Last week I watched the Godfather (part I). Maybe I watched the Godfather (and part II) to many times (both >15 times in less than 4 years), but dare I say it? I think it's better than The Godfather!

Some say that this was inspired by a tale of Harry Grey's concerning how he had once eluded the mob by driving his car into the Hudson river and pretending to kill himself. The camera could follow the driver of the car as he plummets underwater and dwell upon the wrecks lining the river bottom, modern sports cars and a slow dissolve to antique cars.

According to Frayling, initially whenever Leone was discussing the project to prospective backers, he would begin with this scene. Two men have dragged a heavy corpse to the edge of a wharf at night. The feet of the corpse are set in concrete - he is the victim of a gangland execution. The camera follows the corpse as it sinks to the bottom of the river. There we see other corpses: men chained to cars; women still wearing jewels. Then the camera travels through a sewer to another underwater cemetery - this time with more impoverished-looking corpses: one tied to a cart; another in rags. Clearly the bottom of the river has neighborhoods just like New York. Finally the camera rises to the surface again and reveals the Statue Of Liberty, reflected in the moonlight. Title: Once Upon A Time in America.

An adapted version of this scene was used in the opening of Frankenheimer's 99 and 44/100% Dead (1974) and the idea was dropped.

I agree although they are 2 quite different films and I will be getting the Blu-ray version of the Godfather when it's available. Just wish that there was some progress on a Blu-ray version of Once Upon A Time In America with the true story of Harry Grey/Goldberg.

Leone maintained that there were two possible readings. I don't support the dream theory and don't see why it's thought necessary to invent such a theory. None of the events which occur after 1933 are completely impossible and they could have happened in real life.

I think Leone was trying to introduce an element of ambiguity in the film. I've watched quite a few gangster movies recently and a recurring theme is that things happen and no-one knows precisely what happened in reality. The people involved are not always truthful, numerous rumors abound and people go missing and the truth never really comes out.

it might have seemd boring to some people and mayb even weird but this movie had a more deeper meaning than it might have shown in the 1st place.

Noodleses smile are the smile of The Cheshire Cat from Alice's Adventures in Wonderland.

“At one point, the cat disappears gradually until nothing is left but its grin, prompting Alice to remark that she has often seen a cat without a grin but never a grin without a cat”

The story is the same, Noodles and Alice are both on narcotics.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheshire_Cat

The version that Sergio Leone wanted us to see was a 6 hour version, what i would give to see that version.
It might be comparable to The Godfather Part II, The Godfather 1 was just flawless and better than Once Upon A Time In America for sure.

This followed by Raging Bull might be the two greatest films of the 80's.

I really cannot get into this movie at all.

Longneck, you really have to give it a chance. It starts out a little slow and a bit confusing at first, but it really picks up and things fall into place. It really is a classic.

A movie that you must give 100% attention to when veiwing.

I've tried....I've watched it a few different times and...

Very close to the real thing, IMO. Many "mob" movie fall short in realism (Goodfellas? Aaack...) Godfather II also shows true to life immigrant experience and how easy it was to fall into crime.

It was a very good film about some Jewish gangsters in New York.

"In an interview by Noël Simsolo published in 1987, Leone himself confirms the validity of this interpretation, saying that the scenes set in the 1960s could be seen as an opium dream of Noodles"

From wikipedia...

Great film -- I personally prefer if over GF.

believe it or not, im one of the few people im sure, that prefers this movie over the Godfather movies. ive always considerd jewish mobsters to be more intertestin, than the italian ones.

What do you find more interesting about the Jewish mobsters?

How exactly was GoodFellas not realistic? Not only is it heavily based on a true story, but many people knowledgeable about organized crime have said it's the most realistic gangster movie ever made. Although not everything pertaining to Henry Hill and the real life events portrayed happened the way it's shown in the movie, I don't see anything in GoodFellas that would be impossible or even far-fetched.

in my opinion, ive always found most italian mobsters to be generic. but in my view jewish mobsters were tougher, smarter and more business like than most of the italian mobsters....most jewish mobsters goals were to one day go legit, in business and leave the mob life behind so to speak. also most jewish mobsters were a one generation only thing, they never involved thier kids or families in the life.....unlike most italian mobsters whos kids or family members, become the next of kin in the mob life. the jewish mobsters never wanted thier kids to grow up and become gangsters/mobsters....and kept them seperate from the life. the opposite of what Bonanno, Gambino, Trafficante Sr., and Gotti did....just to name a few mobsters that had thier sons involved in the life.

If you have not read them already you might enjoy the books "The Life and Times of Lepke Buchalter" and "The Purple Gang" both by Paul Kavieff, "Vicious Circles" by Jonathan Kwitny, and especially "Supermob" by Gus Russo. I have seen mixed reviews on "Tough Jews" by Rich Cohen with some saying it's too celebratory but I have not read it yet.

hey man, thanks alot for lettin me know about those books you just listed. the only ones that i knew about that you listed, were the Lepke one, Tough Jews, and the Purple Gang...ive never heard of the other ones, but i will be checkin them out. the only books specificlly based on jewish mobsters, that i own are "We Only Kill Each Other", "Meyer Lansky: Mogul Of The Mob", "Mickey Cohen : In My Own Words", "Murder Inc." and "The Rise and Fall of The Jewish Gangster in America". i own other mob books that talk about jewish mobsters, but they also talk about irish and italian mobsters too. when i have enough dough, i want to get "But He Was Good to His Mother", "Tough Jews", "Family Secret", "Our Gang : Jewish Crime and the New York Jewish Community, 1900-1940", the Lepke book that you mentioned, "Rothstein: The Life, Times, Murder of the Criminal Genius Who Fixed the 1919 World Series" and "The Hoods" which OUATIA is based on.

p.s. im not really into hip hop music, but "2 of amerikaz most wanted" is one of my favorite rap songs, just cause it mentions Bugsy Siegel in it haha. also i see that you have the "All Eyez on Me" avatar, so i thought that i would let you know that man. thanks again for the book titles imm goin to check them out.

Welcome, underscore.

thanks.

I think the approaches of the Jewish gangsters you mentioned differed from the approaches of the Italian gangsters you mentioned partly because of the long existence of organized crime in Italy and Sicily specifically.


Mafia existed before any large wave of Italians ever set foot in America. It's existence was known and was (at least on the underbelly) a part of society in Sicily for decades before 1900.

I've not heard or read about Jewish organized crime in German, Poland, or Russia before the first world war.

What the Siegels of the world put together in America was something new....distinctly American. Because it didn't have the framework or history that cosa nostra did, jewish organized crime in America was free to evolve on it's own.

I get the impression that they couldn't compete directly with the "mafia"....so they became associates, affiliates and formed their own niche(s)

Noodles and "rape"


Had a discussion with a friend about this yesterday after we both FINALLY saw the entire film.


I think the film implies that rape( and probably drug use) was something that Noodles encountered and "came to terms with" while being in prison. He goes in as a teen and the implication is that he was sent away to a REAL prison because he killed 1 possibly 2 men.


Did anybody else get that impression?

My friend disagrees and he says that even before jail..a young Noodles had tried to force himself on the young prostitute character.

I think it was just his nature, but he was also enormously frustrated about that hard-to-get girlfriend of his. The other girl at the robbery wasn't really raped btw.

My buddy says the same thing about it being in his nature to be aggresive and animalistic towards women.



I guess to quote whoopi goldberg, about the rape during the robbery,it wasn't rape-rape.

I'd like to read the book and see how that scene was written because the way it was shot....Noodles thought he was raping her.




the fact that she had "unique" sexual fetishes and turn-ons wasn't revealed until later....


In the scene when they encounter her again...I expected her to pull out a knife and do something gruesome to Noodles.

my brain didn't process that she was that much of a freak....until a few seconds after that brothel scene.



The film had some disturbing sexual encounters.

I don't think I had ever watched this all the way through before, but it's currently available on demand on DirecTV so I watched it last weekend.

De Niro, as always, is magnificent. James Woods falls flat for me, though. That might be because he's made such a career of playing crazies that the whole time you're just waiting for him to go off into his schtick. Very nice to pick out the rest of the cast of thousands -- Peschi, Weld, Aiello, Young.

I thought that much of the present day story was hokey and overly contrived. Does Noodles really have to be led around by heavy-handed clues to jog his memory of his own past? One question to be asked of a film told in flashback is, "Would you watch it to the end in chronological order?" I don't think the movie does (except that De Niro remains watchable).

It's a good movie, but probably a little too complex for its own good. I have the same sort of criticisms of GF2, but not nearly to the same extent.

The music score by Ennio Morricone is magnificent. He is the one who did some of the great film scores and worked alot with Leone. Among Morricone's best is music for the film "Malena" and "Once Upon a Time in The West"

Hey yoose guys!
My first post here. Just found this forum by accident. Love reading about this stuff. I am a lifelong Mafia fanatic and love reading about this stuff. Fascinating!

Anyway, I just bought the 2-disc dvd set of OUATIA. I had seen it years ago, but forgot just how magnificent this movie is. I really liked the ambience of the Prohibition-era sets, like Fat Moe's speakeasy. Its just how I imagined it would be. A couple of things I wish Leone would have touched on: the symbiotic relationship of the 4 main characters' business with the Italian mobsters and the actual mechanics of the business side of things. Other than that, I think this movie ranks up there with GF I and II. I just wish Leone would have lived long enough to make more gangster movies.