He came out of retirement for The Good Shepherd and that movie with Helen Mirren, so he could come back for this - but I agree, too much time has passed. All the main players are too old for this.
“It’s Steve Zaillian writing, and Bob and I are working out the schedule and the financing,” Scorsese said. Asked about the idiosyncrasies of film financing, he added, “If you’e doing well, you can do another film if (1) you agree with the subject matter and (2) if it’s a film that others want. If it’s a film you want to do with a few friends, you have to find a way to do it.”
There's an article where De Niro talks about how they're possibly going to use some Benjamin button type technology on him as well as the other cast mates so they look younger. Him and Scorsese are very adamant about it happening and De Niro said in that same interview that they should start filming sometime next year. Like the quote above says, it seems like it's just about scheduling at the moment but it'll get resolved soon from what De Niro and Scorsese have said.
As login as Scorsese is directing I think it very well could. The most important part of the movie is the director. Obviously the writers and actors play an integral part as well. But a huge indication of what movie will be great and what movie won't is the director who is behind the movie.
Hopefully it's a go now. There's no way this movie doesn't go down as one of the all time greats. Probably the last time the whole "gang" would make a movie together. Can't wait.
You should read the book, because the screenplay is going to be completely different I'd stake a lot on it. The book honestly reads fairly dry, although filled with what generally feels like accurate to semi-accurate information throughout. There are some very bold claims that also seem as thought they could be true but, would be historic if they were. That being said none of it jumps off the page (i.e. Nick Pileggi's Wiseguy is the Goodfellas screenplay nearly copied) this will all be reworked to be told better than the book conveys it. They book tells a very dull but potentially accurate detail of how Hoffa died and who participated doing the same with the Joe Gallo murder. I doubt the movie will combo over that as calmly as the book did.
The only way I can see this being screwed up is if Scorsese relies on the crass humor and gratuitous sex like he did with Wolf of Wall Street. It's about the Hoffa hit, for crying out loud. Let the story tell itself.
That is genuinely heart breaking. Pesci might have felt wronged at some point. We have to remember these celebs are people too. sometimes it's just one comment made to the press taken the wrong way, one line in a movie that the actor wanted but the director didn't...then add to that the large egos rich and famous people already have. It doesn't take much. Hope Pesci reconsiders.
Pesci got jerked around on the original deal for this movie that years ago before Cannes. As well as the Travolta/Gotti movie that hasn't yet panned out. He sued on the Gotti movie and won like 3 million b/c he had to gain weight and they never got the ball rolling in the film.
He did The Good Shepard, that CIA/Cold War spy thriller in '06 where he plays a fictitious version of Carlos Marcello. He also did that brothel true story, Love Ranch in '11 I believe but as of now he is closer to fully retired than semi-retired from film. If The Irishman being green-lite isn't worth it for him, surely he's happier away from acting, maybe it's for the best and somebody else steals the role in memorable fashion. I believe Pesci was to be casted as Bufalino, that could become a very classic character if done correctly, I'm very interested to see who is cast instead in what could be the role of the film in all likelihood, depending on which themes of the book the film decides to adapt.
Originally they needed all those names to get financing for this movie. Now they have the financing.
He might not have liked the screen play for his character in this movie.
He is not one of the two main stars of this movie. He is a supporting actor for that matter so is Kietel.
They only got half the money they wanted/needed. I don't know that this played a role in Pesci stepping away at all, and I like your theory that he may've just been attached in name only to easier "sell" the film and reach a financing deal. Regardless, he was to play Bufalino which seems like it would've been a main role with the dynamic between Bufalino and Sherran in the book. With Pacino playing Hoffa I'm curious who may be cast as Angelo Bruno, Joey Glimco, and if they do the Gallo murder scene
I think they can pull this off. First of all both actors are still in pretty good shape. Very good shape for their age. Plus their was talk of using special effects to give them a younger look in parts of this movie.
Too bad they are all afraid to invest some of their own money to make it work.
I think they can pull this off. First of all both actors are still in pretty good shape. Very good shape for their age. Plus their was talk of using special effects to give them a younger look in parts of this movie.
Too bad they are all afraid to invest some of their own money to make it work.
"some talk" of using special effects to give them a younger look is scary. How de niro will pull off being a 30 something gangster is just ridiculous. bufalino and an older hoffa i could understand, but these guys are still old. the problem is, goodfellas and casino set the bar high and while i love de niro and pacino, they're way past their prime.
Did you see DeNiro in The Family they show him before he became a rat. He looked a lot younger in that scene.
a bit younger, sure...but to play a 30 year old rising up the teamster ranks is ridiculous. i hope this movie is great but pacino isn't nearly the same actor as he once was.
Christina Ann-Marie DiEdoardo was born in Queens, N.Y. in 1969. After completing her undergraduate work at the University of Missouri-Columbia in journalism and political science, Christina spent a decade as a newspaper reporter before embracing the Dark Side and attending law school. She became the first person to undergo a gender transition in the history of the William S. Boyd School of Law while a student and she remains the only openly Trans attorney licensed to practice law in Nevada. After passing the California Bar Exam in 2008, she relocated to San Francisco in 2009, where she currently resides and practices criminal defense at her own firm. She also serves as a contract public defender in Lake County, California.
When not straightening out her clients' misunderstandings with law enforcement, Christina enjoys historical research and writing. Her first nonfiction book-"Lanza's Mob: The Mafia and San Francisco" will be published in mid-2016 by Praeger
[qMoe_Tilden]I think De Niro is more versatile than Pacino.
"Has Pacino ever had a strong role in a comedy for example?"
Has DeNiro ever done Shakespeare ?
"DeNiro has had several."
Evidently DeNiro needs money. He is making a lot more movies then he used to some are total crap. Like the one with him and travolta. How about the one with him and Stallone there are crap.
Christina Ann-Marie DiEdoardo was born in Queens, N.Y. in 1969. After completing her undergraduate work at the University of Missouri-Columbia in journalism and political science, Christina spent a decade as a newspaper reporter before embracing the Dark Side and attending law school. She became the first person to undergo a gender transition in the history of the William S. Boyd School of Law while a student and she remains the only openly Trans attorney licensed to practice law in Nevada. After passing the California Bar Exam in 2008, she relocated to San Francisco in 2009, where she currently resides and practices criminal defense at her own firm. She also serves as a contract public defender in Lake County, California.
When not straightening out her clients' misunderstandings with law enforcement, Christina enjoys historical research and writing. Her first nonfiction book-"Lanza's Mob: The Mafia and San Francisco" will be published in mid-2016 by Praeger
lol. I noticed that too and I knew it would create a stir. As long as the book's good, I don't care. But $37 being the pre-order price, for 186 pages? I'll bet everything in this book can be obtained through google searches. So far it looks bad. Her personal life aside, she's not even from SF, or even the west coast. She's a NY academic and she's clearly trying to cash on uncharted territory in mob literature, San Francisco. Maybe to pay for that operation? tehe.
[qMoe_Tilden]I think De Niro is more versatile than Pacino.
"Has Pacino ever had a strong role in a comedy for example?"
Has DeNiro ever done Shakespeare ?
"DeNiro has had several."
Evidently DeNiro needs money. He is making a lot more movies then he used to some are total crap. Like the one with him and travolta. How about the one with him and Stallone there are crap.
De Niro is actually very well off with his real estate development and properties. he owns quite a bit in soho and his son is one of nyc's power brokers, he and his wife have a very successful real estate brokerage firm and own quite a few buildings in manhattan. hes not hurting financially in any way
Christina Ann-Marie DiEdoardo was born in Queens, N.Y. in 1969. After completing her undergraduate work at the University of Missouri-Columbia in journalism and political science, Christina spent a decade as a newspaper reporter before embracing the Dark Side and attending law school. She became the first person to undergo a gender transition in the history of the William S. Boyd School of Law while a student and she remains the only openly Trans attorney licensed to practice law in Nevada. After passing the California Bar Exam in 2008, she relocated to San Francisco in 2009, where she currently resides and practices criminal defense at her own firm. She also serves as a contract public defender in Lake County, California.
When not straightening out her clients' misunderstandings with law enforcement, Christina enjoys historical research and writing. Her first nonfiction book-"Lanza's Mob: The Mafia and San Francisco" will be published in mid-2016 by Praeger
lol. I noticed that too and I knew it would create a stir. As long as the book's good, I don't care. But $37 being the pre-order price, for 186 pages? I'll bet everything in this book can be obtained through google searches. So far it looks bad. Her personal life aside, she's not even from SF, or even the west coast. She's a NY academic and she's clearly trying to cash on uncharted territory in mob literature, San Francisco. Maybe to pay for that operation? tehe.
after a year, the book could be bought for $.01 on amazon. imo, there is a certain poster who is an amazing researcher who should have done the SF project. 186 pages? how comprehensive could that be?
[quote=dinocrocetti]Lanza's Mob is being written by this freak:
Christina Ann-Marie DiEdoardo was born in Queens, N.Y. in 1969. After completing her undergraduate work at the University of Missouri-Columbia in journalism and political science, Christina spent a decade as a newspaper reporter before embracing the Dark Side and attending law school. She became the first person to undergo a gender transition in the history of the William S. Boyd School of Law while a student and she remains the only openly Trans attorney licensed to practice law in Nevada. After passing the California Bar Exam in 2008, she relocated to San Francisco in 2009, where she currently resides and practices criminal defense at her own firm. She also serves as a contract public defender in Lake County, California.
When not straightening out her clients' misunderstandings with law enforcement, Christina enjoys historical research and writing. Her first nonfiction book-"Lanza's Mob: The Mafia and San Francisco" will be published in mid-2016 by Praeger
lol. I noticed that too and I knew it would create a stir. As long as the book's good, I don't care. But $37 being the pre-order price, for 186 pages? I'll bet everything in this book can be obtained through google searches. So far it looks bad. Her personal life aside, she's not even from SF, or even the west coast. She's a NY academic and she's clearly trying to cash on uncharted territory in mob literature, San Francisco. Maybe to pay for that operation? tehe.
after a year, the book could be bought for $.01 on amazon. imo, there is a certain poster who is an amazing researcher who should have done the SF project. 186 pages? how comprehensive could that be? $37? 'it' is probably looking to subsidize the cost of a penile implant
I actually downloaded the free preview to my Kindle app, and it looks somewhat interesting. The chapters seem to hit every angle. Just, at 186 pages, I can't see how expansive the chapters could possibly be. I think I'll take your advice and wait till it comes down to $.01 on amazon, or until a library gets it.
Is there any connection between these recent posts and "The Irishman"? I don't know what's being talked about, but I keep clicking on the thread because it looks like someone has added something about The Irishman.
A little bit of thunder in showbiz media this week.
So far, plan is for late 2018 release, filming to take place next year. DeNiro will play younger Sheeran as well as old. He jokes about "Benjamin Button" technology.
7 Things to Know About the Martin Scorsese–Robert De Niro–Al Pacino Mob Opus 'The Irishman'
Agree, Billy. Pacino's acting is hit and miss. It's either really great, or really bad. And I get the feeling Pacino as Hoffa is going to be bad. But, if it were anyone other than Scorsese directing, and DeNiro in the starring role, I would probably be a lot more worried. lol.
Someone here made a good point that Pesci allowed them to throw his name around to secure the financing. Now that they have it, he's bailing, staying retired.
i can't believe pesci is passing. joe is my favorite mob actor. he can do the role in his sleep. watched him in J.F.K. as david ferrie. joe managed to get the new Orleans accent down until his character has a few explosive moments and it is classic pesci.
Pesci's midwest accent in Casino was the first thing I noticed when seeing it at the theater. At first I thought it was going to be annoying, but right off the bat he's delivering those funny one liners in his narration.
"jerst anerther fat fuck walking out of the cersino with a sertcase..."
all these guys are too old, better with new faces, you can.t turn back time, sheeran was a huge guy, deniro can't play him, he would make a fool of himself.
all these guys are too old, better with new faces, you can.t turn back time, sheeran was a huge guy, deniro can't play him, he would make a fool of himself.
And, this could be trouble. They already had a deal with other distributors, then went behind their back, after the deals were complete, to sign a universal deal with Netflix, which might not even be legal. This could all end up in court. I hope it doesn't delay filming.
He is a fake Italian watch Mean streets listen to the way he talked in it. The same way Steven Segal talked in Out for Justice. Over time he got better at it. He is a fake Italian. He just another fagot liberal prick. Better if he die's.
Don't think I agree with that but everyone has an opinion. Not quite sure what you mean by fake Italian. I think his mother was German and his father was half Italian.
Scorsese says some elements of Goodfellas will be there, but don't expect Goodfellas.
Quote:
“I think this is different, I think it is,” he insists. “I admit that there are – you know, Goodfellas and Casino have a certain style that I created for them – it's on the page in the script actually. Putting Goodfellas together was almost like an afterthought, at times I was kind of rushing, I felt I'd already done it because I'd played it all out in terms of the camera moves and the editing and that sort of thing. The style of the picture, the cuts, the freeze-frames, all of this was planned way in advance, but here it's a little different.
“The people are also older in The Irishman, it's certainly more about looking back, a retrospective so to speak of a man's life and the choices that he's had to make.”
I'm sure I'll be there the first weekend, but I'm pretty skeptical about how good it'll be. Part of that's the technology they'll be using - the actors still have to project some vigor and there's a lot of old coots here. The other thing is that between the technology and the top five or so actors will there be any money left to make the movie? They may have been better just doing an over-the-hill gangster comedy.
I'm sure I'll be there the first weekend, but I'm pretty skeptical about how good it'll be. Part of that's the technology they'll be using - the actors still have to project some vigor and there's a lot of old coots here. The other thing is that between the technology and the top five or so actors will there be any money left to make the movie? They may have been better just doing an over-the-hill gangster comedy.
Netflix is putting up the money for theater release. Every indication is that they're willing to spend whatever it takes. The industry is keeping an eye on this. It's success or failure could change Hollywood forever.
As great as it is to see Pesci on board, it's too bad he's playing someone as introverted as Buffalino reportedly was. He'd be perfect playing some go between who talks a lot, so we get some great Pesci lines. I mean, how does Joe Pesci play someone nicknamed "The Quiet Don"?
Yeah it is. I was convinced Pesci would somehow flake out until I saw these pictures. This is real. Scorsese, DeNiro and Pesci back together. Oh, and just throw in Pacino for score.
Why did they have to give that windbag Dietl a mobster role? In Goodfellas he basically plays himself. Loudmouth cop busting Henry at the end. He was in Wolf of Wall Street, too. A Scoresese regular.
Why did they have to give that windbag Dietl a mobster role? In Goodfellas he basically plays himself. Loudmouth cop busting Henry at the end. He was in Wolf of Wall Street, too. A Scoresese regular.
LOL looks like Marty has a weak spot for him, he could do a decent Glimco I think, here he is at Rao's.
Yeah, he's part of Scorsese's usual ensemble. I imagine Dietl was quite useful for consultancy, going back to Goodfellas. I'm sure he has stories about wiseguys.
I have no doubts that The Irishman is going to deliver on every level for Scorsese fans, but the only thing that bugs me is that with Netflix's monster budget, they still filmed entirely in New York. They should have found some locations around Detroit and Scranton that still look mid 20th century. The Hoffa story is a midwestern story, not a NY story. I'm sure they filmed in part of New York that resemble Northeast Pennsylvania and The D good enough, though. After all, all of Casino was filmed in Vegas, even the midwest scenes. A lot of Goodfellas was filmed in Toronto, seamlessly. Someone as good as Marty could make it work.
I have no doubts that The Irishman is going to deliver on every level for Scorsese fans, but the only thing that bugs me is that with Netflix's monster budget, they still filmed entirely in New York. They should have found some locations around Detroit and Scranton that still look mid 20th century. The Hoffa story is a midwestern story, not a NY story. I'm sure they filmed in part of New York that resemble Northeast Pennsylvania and The D good enough, though. After all, all of Casino was filmed in Vegas, even the midwest scenes. A lot of Goodfellas was filmed in Toronto, seamlessly. Someone as good as Marty could make it work.
Casino had a relatively old cast, too. It's probably one of the reasons it was heavily criticized, even though they said it was because of the violence. If younger actors had played Ace and Ginger, the critics probably would have been more friendly to it, despite the violence.
I'm glad Scorsese didn't ruin this by writing in a role for DeCaprio or someone just to appease critics and get a younger audience.
Casino had a relatively old cast, too. It's probably one of the reasons it was heavily criticized, even though they said it was because of the violence. If younger actors had played Ace and Ginger, the critics probably would have been more friendly to it, despite the violence.
I'm glad Scorsese didn't ruin this by writing in a role for DeCaprio or someone just to appease critics and get a younger audience.
De Niro was in his late-forties. Why would his character need to be older? It made sense. Pesci was around the same age. Maybe he could have been a little younger, but, again, not a noticeable issue.
De Niro, here, looks decrepit. It's a big blow to the credibility of the movie. Not to mention his recent career choices.
Casino had a relatively old cast, too. It's probably one of the reasons it was heavily criticized, even though they said it was because of the violence. If younger actors had played Ace and Ginger, the critics probably would have been more friendly to it, despite the violence.
I'm glad Scorsese didn't ruin this by writing in a role for DeCaprio or someone just to appease critics and get a younger audience.
De Niro was in his late-forties. Why would his character need to be older? It made sense. Pesci was around the same age. Maybe he could have been a little younger, but, again, not a noticeable issue.
De Niro, here, looks decrepit. It's a big blow to the credibility of the movie. Not to mention his recent career choices.
The one act of casting that irked me was in Goodfellas, not Casino. Joe Pesci, who is obviously much fucking older than Ray Liotta in that film, playing Tommy, who was what, 30 when he died? The fucking guy looks like he was 45 even back in the 1960s parts of the movie. Obviously artistic license and he was great in the role but as far as historical accuracy, come on.
As far as the casting of Ace and Ginger, if you went true to life with them no one would pay to see it - they were a pair of ugly fuckers.
You might think I'm joking but I feel this was a missed opportunity to get Tony Siricio and Vincent Pastore involved in some way in this one. If you had Al, DeNiro, Pesci, Siricio and Pastore in the same movie it'd be the best gangster flick just on cast alone. No one plays a good old school fat fuck mobster like Pastore.
The Irishman: Scorsese, Netflix and the film that nearly vanished The Irishman was in limbo for a decade before Netflix stepped in and saved the day. Our film critic on an unlikely partnership
Why do the always have to cast big names??I mean its on Netflix,I guarantee you there's at least 20guys who could of done a better job than Deniro.Imagine if Coppola listened to the studio and casted James Caan instead of Pacino.The directors today are gutless
Why do the always have to cast big names??I mean its on Netflix,I guarantee you there's at least 20guys who could of done a better job than Deniro.Imagine if Coppola listened to the studio and casted James Caan instead of Pacino.The directors today are gutless
Scorsese's well past his 'taking on the studio' days. They throw him a ton of money to basically make whatever movie he wants, and they've always wanted another mob movie with him and DeNiro. This is probably the curtain call for Scorsese, Deniro and Pesci. No need to go young with the cast. We're talking about Sheeran's story here, anyway, not Casablanca.
I don't mind that they cast De Niro and Pesci along with having Scorsese direct. These guys are legends and Netflix knows, if you put all 3 of these in a movie, people will have interest and will watch it. Plus, if De Niro and Pesci can still pull it off, who cares how old they are and that their faces need to be digitally restored?
They could have used younger actors, but they just make them younger. I watched Ant-Man and the Wasp yesterday they used the same technology to make Michael Douglas and Laurence Fishburne younger, looked pretty good.
Dan Moldea (author: Hoffa Wars) on FoxNews today talking about Sheeran, says he's a fraud. Calls "The Irishman" a "fantasy". I think he's being kind of salty. Most biographical films have a lot of staged events and even some made up characters. It's ultimately entertainment.
Dan Moldea (author: Hoffa Wars) on FoxNews today talking about Sheeran, says he's a fraud. Calls "The Irishman" a "fantasy". I think he's being kind of salty. Most biographical films have a lot of staged events and even some made up characters. It's ultimately entertainment.
I haven't looked up a lot of criticism of Moldea, but by reading his books I can tell for myself that he has a habit of jumping to conclusions based on mere third party connections between subjects. I don't entirely disagree with all of his conclusions and they are plausible, but he has a tendency to pass them off as fact. I still like him. Great mob writer. I still have his book about Reagan and MCA on my wish list.
Is this movie still coming out in the later part of 2019 or have they moved it up? Last I heard it's still almost a year out. Seems weird they're doing interviews and whatnot if it's still that far away.
I think it's too late for the 2019 Oscars, so they want to release it last next year for 2020 Oscars. They're going to put it in limited theaters for a couple of weeks to make it eligible. So, I predict Thanksgiving or Christmas, 2019.
Thanks Hollander. So, recently, huh? I remember DeNiro said something about the movie going by the book title a couple of months ago, but never heard anything more after that.
The guy who wrote the book "I Heard you Paint Houses" Charles Brandt was on the radio last night and said the movie is coming out November 2019. They are changing the title to "I Heard You Paint Houses" as well. Or DeNiro is pushing for the name change. He's going to try and get DeNiro to come on the radio with him next time closer to the release date to hype up the movie.
That all sounds about right. November of next year puts it right in the running for an Oscar in 2020. It's too late this year. I like the book's title better, too.
It said it would and Netflix will if they hope to garner any Oscars next year. The Academy has something in their guidelines about films must be presented in theaters to x amount of days/weeks to be eligible. That's why ROMA (another Netflix movie) was released in theaters and it took home some gold last night.
It will be in theaters. Unfortunately, I probably won’t be able see it in theaters as it’ll probably be shown at private screenings in New York City and LA for about a week. But at least Netflix is there. I hope the de-aging doesn’t hurt the experience of the film at all.
I think Irishman is right. They're only going to put it in theaters for a week or so just to make it eligible for the Oscars. DeNiro said in a recent interview that it would run longer in theaters. Maybe just wishful thinking on his part.
I don't think the de-aging is going to be that extreme. Probably going to make those guys look 50 instead of looking 80, even though these characters will be in their 30s and 40s in the flashback scenes. Movies have older actors play younger people all of the time. Pesci was nearly 50 when he played Tommy DeSimone, who was 28 when he "disappeared".
According to Dan Moldea, a writer I like a lot (see my sig), it's total bullshit. He insists Sheeran did not pull the trigger. He had a "sit down" (that's what he called it on his facebook page) with DeNiro and Gus Russo and tried to convince DeNiro not to do the movie. No luck.
I don't care if movies based on true stories get some things wrong. They're movies. The exception would be documentaries, which serve a different purpose than feature films. We now know Goodfellas was mostly bullshit but guess what? It's still the greatest gangster film ever made.
De Niro, Pacino and Pesci have been in a combined total of about five decent movies in the last twenty years. Until I see the movie I will reserve judgement, but I'm not going to assume it's going to be good just because of their involvement. The positive thing is that Scorsese's output has remained solid and I don't think he'd attach himself to something if it didn't have promise.
I will see your De Niro, Pacino and Pesci and raise you the guy from Everybody Loves Raymond.
Goodfellas and Casino had a lot of scenes, too. I'm not sure if it was 300, but it was a lot. I remember some Sharon Stone interview where she talked about freaking out when she got the Casino script and seeing how many scenes were in it. Marty likes to keep his movies fast paced, and this will be no exception.
Martin Scorsese’s ‘The Irishman’ Delayed Due to Digital De-Aging on Robert De Niro By Claire Spellberg @c_spellberg May 29, 2019 at 2:50pm
It’s taken years for Martin Scorsese‘s The Irishman to hit the big screen, but now, we finally know what has caused the delay: Robert De Niro’s wrinkles. In a new interview on A24’s podcast, A Bigger Canvas, Scorsese revealed that his highly-anticipated mob drama, which is expected to premiere on Netflix and in theaters later this fall, is undergoing a lengthy digital “youthification†process that will de-age De Niro and his co-stars Al Pacino and Joe Pesci. The Irishman director added that he’s “concerned†about the digital effect, as it seems to have altered the “intensity†and the “threat†in his actors’ eyes.
During the discussion with The Souvenir director Joanna Hogg, Scorsese revealed that The Irishman is shot primarily in 35mm film, but the choice has caused issues for the film’s post-production team. “We shot as much 35 as possible,†said Scorsese. “However, there’s a great deal of CGI because we’re doing this youthification of De Niro, Pesci, and Al Pacino. They had to be CGI. They had to be a camera with three lenses. I was just crazy.â€
Scorsese went on to say that the process has left him nervous about the final product. “Why I’m concerned, we’re all concerned is that we’re so used to watching them as the older faces,†he said. Scorsese added that The Irishman “cuts back and forth†between various timelines to tell the story of Frank Sheeran (De Niro), a mob hitman who was involved in Teamster leader Jimmy Hoffa’s (Pacino) disappearance. According to IndieWire, the film will span multiple decades, which means that De Niro, Pacino, and Pesci (as mob boss Russell Bufalino) will appear up to 30 years younger at various points in the drama.
The famed director told Hogg that watching the final cut “all together†has helped him spot issues with the de-aging effect. “Now, it’s real. Now, I’m seeing it,†said Scorsese. “Now, certain shots need more work on the eyes, need more work on why these exactly the same eyes from the plate shot, but the wrinkles and things have changed. Does it change the eyes at all? If that’s the case, what was in the eyes that I liked? Was it intensity? Was it gravitas? Was it threat?â€
Netflix has yet to announce an official release date for The Irishman, but it’s expected to premiere this fall. Tune in then to see if De Niro’s crow’s feet made the final cut.
They suck? Who are we talking about here homes? One of the best directors/icons!?Every single fucking actor in this movie is beyond amazing and you say they suck? Wow I wonder who you really are
They suck? Who are we talking about here homes? One of the best directors/icons!?Every single fucking actor in this movie is beyond amazing and you say they suck? Wow I wonder who you really are
You can Stop Wondering...... I’m talkin about Deniro and Pesci.
You wanna be lost in those old men, go right ahead but their ships have sailed selling a role in Tuff guys and authorities of anything other then how to be arrogant or press Depends commercials.
I can't believe the guy from Everybody Loves Raymond is in a Scorsese movie.
They can de-age the actors all they want but you can still tell they're ancient from their line delivery, gestures and body language.
I don't want to sound like I'm moaning - I'll watch this movie like everyone else - but I saw little of the old [or should I say young], dynamic De Niro, Pacino or Pesci in that trailer.
It just looked a bit lethargic.
I would've loved if this came out twenty years ago when Scorsese was still at the peak of his powers and the main players still had the energy to pull it off.
DeNiro and Marty were initially going to do Frankie Machine, about the San Diego mob. DeNiro had read I Heard You Paint Houses to prepare for the Machine role and realized he wanted to do Sheeran's story instead.
DeNiro and Marty were initially going to do Frankie Machine, about the San Diego mob. DeNiro had read I Heard You Paint Houses to prepare for the Machine role and realized he wanted to do Sheeran's story instead.
I don’t know much about Frankie Machine, although I read the Wikipedia synopsis and I can say I’m glad they abandoned that project. For one, it’s entirely fictional. It’d be nice to see some smaller families but the silver screen, but man that one sounds like some weird John Wick meets Donnie Brasco thriller that would not entice. The Irishman is getting rave reviews and it actually based on a true story. Scorsese and team made the right decision.
I'm looking forward to it! Scorsese, De Niro, Pacino, and Pesci? Sign me up.
Many people were skeptical about the making of the movie. Must feel good for them to prove to people that they’ve still got it.
Never bet against these men. They've done it too many times before. Now yes, none of them (with the exception of Marty) have done a good movie in a number of years. But I'm still willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. It's just a shame we had to wait this long into their careers to get all 3 of these guys together in a film (De Niro, Pacino, and Pesci that is).
Originally Posted by DE NIRO
Originally Posted by FireHawk
do you guys see this movie reaching the levels of Goodfellas/Casino?
I don't think anything these days can reach the levels of The Goodfellas, the film was that good..
Joe Pesci pretty much retired from acting after Gone Fishin'. I think he was in The Good Shepherd before this and nothing else. What a waste. Ah well, at least this will remove the sour taste of him dropping out of Gotti. Although, it's probably a godsend he didn't get involved in that.
TBH with some of the stuff he has publicly said about Trump, I'm not one bit surprised he has problems controlling his anger. It was embarrassing to listen to this.
I don’t know much about Frankie Machine, although I read the Wikipedia synopsis and I can say I’m glad they abandoned that project. For one, it’s entirely fictional.
Partly fictional, not entirely. Some real names and real stories of California and Detroit guys in the book, and the characters with fictional names are rather blatantly based on real people. If you read The Last Mafioso before Machine you'll know who everyone is.
Joe Pesci pretty much retired from acting after Gone Fishin'. I think he was in The Good Shepherd before this and nothing else. What a waste. Ah well, at least this will remove the sour taste of him dropping out of Gotti. Although, it's probably a godsend he didn't get involved in that.
Pesci was actually in a good movie called Love Ranch in 2010, based on a true story about the Mustang Ranch (Reno brothel) owner who killed a boxer having an affair with his wife.
I prefer the movie to be as accurate as possible but I know for Hollywood, they have to add tension/drama, etc. so I know it's not always 100% accurate but for me personally, I like to see as accurate a portrayal as possible.
I had never heard of Henry Hill when I first saw Goodfellas and I thought it was the greatest movie I'd seen in my life. I had no way of comparing it to reality.
Does it bother anybody whether or not the story of a movie is accurate or not?
I assume all movies are inaccurate. Even if every detail is presented accurately, there's still the matter of what gets left out. They'll do what they have to to make a good story.
The opening scene is pure Scorsese; a tracking shot moves down a long corridor, sailing past a religious statue, pop music on the soundtrack (In the Still of the Night, by the Five Satins).
One day I was flipping through channels and I caught a news special about finally finding Hoffa. I couldn't believe it. A minute or so in I found out it was Bruce Almighty. Wtf
I prefer the movie to be as accurate as possible but I know for Hollywood, they have to add tension/drama, etc. so I know it's not always 100% accurate but for me personally, I like to see as accurate a portrayal as possible.
I have to say I agree. I do not know how accurate the Irishman really is or not but I believe as long as Sheeran’s story is in the realm of possibility and realism without any extremely glaring inaccuracies then I believe that it makes no difference.
The opening scene is pure Scorsese; a tracking shot moves down a long corridor, sailing past a religious statue, pop music on the soundtrack (In the Still of the Night, by the Five Satins).
You have seen it? It has been getting impressive feedback all across the board. Is it well deserved in your opinion?
sailing past a religious statue, pop music on the soundtrack (In the Still of the Night, by the Five Satins).
Callback to Mean Streets. I notice in the trailer Sheeran and his wife are standing in the classroom watching their daughter speak just like Nicky Santoro and his wife watch little Nicky in Casino.
sailing past a religious statue, pop music on the soundtrack (In the Still of the Night, by the Five Satins).
Callback to Mean Streets. I notice in the trailer Sheeran and his wife are standing in the classroom watching their daughter speak just like Nicky Santoro and his wife watch little Nicky in Casino.
There’s probably a voiceover in that scene too. Just like casino.
Just watched The Irishman. Superb! A bit long and it drags just a little in some places, but so, so good otherwise. Another classic in the vein of the GF, Casino, and Goodfellas.
I wonder though if some of the historical scenes and references such as the Teamsters, Hoffa, Cuba, Gallo, even Kennedy, etc. will be lost on younger viewers.
Of course, from the opening scene with In the Still of the Night I was captured.
Did anyone else get a touch of sentimentalism whenever the song ‘Pretend you don’t see her at all’ came on?
Definitely a nod to the Goodfellas scene with that song.
I did. Was also nice to see Welker White played Jo Hoffa after she portrayed Lois "The Babysitter" Byrd in GOODFELLAS. A lot of Scorsese alum make cameo's in this film.
The movie left out a very relevant fact: Frank Fitzsimmons, who was acting Teamsters president while Hoffa was in prison for jury tampering, made a deal with Nixon: the President would commute Hoffa's seven year sentence with the proviso that Hoffa had to stay away from union politics until 1980, otherwise he'd go back to prison. Hoffa, desperate to get out, agreed.
He then was in demand for media interviews, where he talked up prison reform, but always put in bad words for Fitz and Fitz's Mob ties. He also made noises about wanting to recapture the Teamsters' presidency. Unlike the hard-driving, autocratic, workaholic Hoffa, Fitzsimmons was fat, lazy and was more interested in playing golf than tending to union business. But, Teamsters Local officers liked him because he gave them far more leeway than the hyper-controlling Hoffa. And, while Hoffa played ball with the Mob, he was courageous and fearlessly independent, while Fitz was compliant with them and paid little attention to the gigantic Central States Pension Fund, which was the Mob's loan bank.
Neither Fitz nor the Mob wanted Hoffa back in charge; and his bad-mouthing Fitz' Mob ties was a direct threat to them. Even Chuckie, who was a virtual son to Hoffa, said he was "suicidal." RIP Jimmy.
Good point TB. In Jack Nicholson's Hoffa, Hoffa was all surprised by that arrangement with Nixon which was absurd because he would have had to agree to it before his release. But in The Irishman Hoffa does reference $5,000 paid to Nixon's campaign.
Another part they could have done a better job of explaining was the murder of Colombo. Unless you're a Board member, a viewer probably wouldn't understand why Colombo was even in the movie or Gallo's part in his murder.
Good point TB. In Jack Nicholson's Hoffa, Hoffa was all surprised by that arrangement with Nixon which was absurd because he would have had to agree to it before his release. But in The Irishman Hoffa does reference $5,000 paid to Nixon's campaign.
In "In Hoffa's Shadow" by Jack Goldsmith, Chuckie's stepson, he says Chuckie toldl him he delivered $1 million in cash from Fitz to a man in a dark hotel room who he believed was John Mitchell, then chairman of the Committee to Re-Elect the President.
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Another part they could have done a better job of explaining was the murder of Colombo. Unless you're a Board member, a viewer probably wouldn't understand why Colombo was even in the movie or Gallo's part in his murder.
Point well taken, Oli. Now there's considerable doubt that the Colombo shooting was ordered by Gallo.
Does it bother anybody whether or not the story of a movie is accurate or not?
I assume all movies are inaccurate. Even if every detail is presented accurately, there's still the matter of what gets left out. They'll do what they have to to make a good story.
Yes. It's entertainment. It's not as if the studio billed "The Irishman" as "The Never-Before Revealed True Story of How an Irish Hitman Killed Jimmy Hoffa for the Mafia." It takes plenty of liberties to tell its story. For example: --JFK didn't need the Mob's help in winning Illinois in 1960, nor did the Mob have any reason to help him. The Kennedys had been at war with Hoffa and the Mob since 1957, and the Teamsters supported Richard Nixon for President in 1960. --Joe Kennedy, JFK's father, was not a rumrunner during bProhibition, nor was he close to Mobsters. --The Mob cooperated with the CIA in plots to kill Castro. But they did not collect and deliver (via Sheeran) guns to the Bay of Pigs invaders, who were armed by the CIA and Dept. of Defense. David Ferrie was not involved in that, although, in "I Heard You Paint Houses," Sheeran said Hoffa told him to use a private plane to deliver three rifles to Ferrie in New Orleans. --Sheeran did not kill Crazy Joe Gallo. --The FBI now believes Chuckie was not in the car with Hoffa for his last ride. --Information about Sheeran's life is at best sketchy, and there's a lot of controversy about what he told others about his life before he died.
I loved it.That they tampered with historical accuracy didn't bother me at all. Everything in the film was plausible if not factual. Do I believe that Sheeran killed Hoffa? Probably not. But did a guy LIKE Sheeran kill Hoffa? You bet. Same for Gallo. Ludicrous. But a guy LIKE Sheeran was a shooter. A career criminal. A thug. A murderer. Was Hoffa cremated? Who knows? COULD he have been cremated? Absolutely. Especially given the mob's association with a lot of the old independent Italian funeral homes. So, like I said, it's plausible if not factual.
The CGI didn't bother me. What I did notice was that their bodies betrayed them more than their faces. They might have looked fiftyish at points, but they all moved every bit of 75 or 80. The scene outside the grocery store is especially telling. Sheeran would have been a young man there. When DeNiro is stomping the grocer, he looks like an old man kicking a cat in the ass to chase him off the lawn. Just go back to Goodfellas at the bar when he's stomping Batts. DeNiro was in his mid-forties there. And he moved like it. Sheeran would have been younger in the grocery scene than DeNiro was in Goodfellas. Enough said about that because, overall, in film sometimes you just have to look the other way sometimes.
Now, the acting was brilliant. No one's gonna argue that. I've read that a lot of people on social meeting have called it "boring," and I think I know why. Most people on social media are younger. This film is a gangster movie but only to a degree. The overall theme of the film is about aging with loss and regret and guilt. Jesus, is there anything sadder than a lonely old man picking out his own casket? But sometimes people die alone, especially people who made terrible life choices, like Sheeran and company. So how's a 20 or 30 year old gonna relate to that? Well, I turned 60 in October and I get it. Boy, do I get it.
Oh, one more thing. I really like how Pacino looked at the peak of Hoffa's career. That's how an older Michael Corleone SHOULD have looked.
PB, you're right about that movie's younger viewers. Remember that episodes of Two and a Half Men when Charlie is watching Jaws with Jake? Jake says that we're 40 minutes into the film and haven't even seen the shark yet. I can imagine him watching The Irishman and wondering where that opening song came from.
In any case, a great movie that completes that Trilogy: Goodfellas, Casino, and now The Irishman.
By the way, I thought the background theme of Peggy's estrangement from her father (and her avoidance of Bufalino) was so unique in a film such as this. Her sixth sense told her that they were not all they appeared to be.
By the way, I thought the background theme of Peggy's estrangement from her father (and her avoidance of Bufalino) was so unique in a film such as this. Her sixth sense told her that they were not all they appeared to be.
Absolutely, Oli. That's another silly criticism that I read. Some folks are offended that she only had one line in the film as an adult. That it was a "boys club" film. Well, it was. So what? There aren't a million "girl power" films out there? And her silence spoke volumes. Her expressions and body language were brilliant.
I loved it.That they tampered with historical accuracy didn't bother me at all. Everything in the film was plausible if not factual. Do I believe that Sheeran killed Hoffa? Probably not. But did a guy LIKE Sheeran kill Hoffa? You bet. Same for Gallo. Ludicrous. But a guy LIKE Sheeran was a shooter. A career criminal. A thug. A murderer. Was Hoffa cremated? Who knows? COULD he have been cremated? Absolutely. Especially given the mob's association with a lot of the old independent Italian funeral homes. So, like I said, it's plausible if not factual.
The CGI didn't bother me. What I did notice was that their bodies betrayed them more than their faces. They might have looked fiftyish at points, but they all moved every bit of 75 or 80. The scene outside the grocery store is especially telling. Sheeran would have been a young man there. When DeNiro is stomping the grocer, he looks like an old man kicking a cat in the ass to chase him off the lawn. Just go back to Goodfellas at the bar when he's stomping Batts. DeNiro was in his mid-forties there. And he moved like it. Sheeran would have been younger in the grocery scene than DeNiro was in Goodfellas. Enough said about that because, overall, in film sometimes you just have to look the other way sometimes.
Now, the acting was brilliant. No one's gonna argue that. I've read that a lot of people on social meeting have called it "boring," and I think I know why. Most people on social media are younger. This film is a gangster movie but only to a degree. The overall theme of the film is about aging with loss and regret and guilt. Jesus, is there anything sadder than a lonely old man picking out his own casket? But sometimes people die alone, especially people who made terrible life choices, like Sheeran and company. So how's a 20 or 30 year old gonna relate to that? Well, I turned 60 in October and I get it. Boy, do I get it.
Oh, one more thing. I really like how Pacino looked at the peak of Hoffa's career. That's how an older Michael Corleone SHOULD have looked.
Agree with everything you say, but especially that. I cringed watching that scene. Even when I saw the trailer, my reservations weren't so much with the facial de-aging but the fact that the actors body movements were betraying them. As you said, they moved and carried themselves like old men.
In saying that, how good does Harvey Keitel look for his age? He's older than De Niro, Pesci and Pacino but he carries it a lot better.
It's funny you mention the scene in Goodfellas where De Niro puts the boots to Frank Vincent. It's not what he did, but the way he did it. It's small things like that which make a great actor.
My brother (who's more of a film buff than me) and I always got a kick out of how cool De Niro looked in that scene.
And PB, it's not just resonant to the people who're over 60. It's even resonant to someone like me who has a sixty-something father and a mother who's approaching sixty. The scene with De Niro and Pesci in prison, the latter struggling to eat his favourite food, was heart-rending, as were the scenes with De Niro trying, and failing, to reconnect with his daughter. Despite the subject matter, it was quite a touching and beautiful movie in certain parts; not a bad way for Scorsese and De Niro to put an exclamation mark on their collaborations. Intend on watching it again soon.
And PB, it's not just resonant to the people who're over 60. It's even resonant to someone like me who has a sixty-something father and a mother who's approaching sixty. The scene with De Niro and Pesci in prison, the latter struggling to eat his favourite food, was heart-rending, as were the scenes with De Niro trying, and failing, to reconnect with his daughter. Despite the subject matter, it was quite a touching and beautiful movie in certain parts; not a bad way for Scorsese and De Niro to put an exclamation mark on their collaborations. Intend on watching it again soon.
Agree a hundred percent. When your parents start aging it's an eye opener. And when it's drawn out, like Pesci in the prison scene, it's all the more heartbreaking. It took me right back to my Dad. It's going on four years and I'm still not the same. You're an old soul, Moe😉🙂.
Just watched a video from WatchMojo which cites several true or false scenes in the movie. It might be worth a look by some Board members.
I also just read that the FBI has scheduled another dig to look for his remains. Crazy. But wouldn't it be some shit if they found him now, right after the film depiction? But like DeNiro says, It's what it is lol.
Quick observation. I'll probably do this more than once lol. But when Tony Pro showed up at the meeting in shorts he reminded me of Michael Madsen as Sonny Black in Donnie Brasco. Lots of little things reminded me of homages to earlier films in the genre.
Quick observation. I'll probably do this more than once lol. But when Tony Pro showed up at the meeting in shorts he reminded me of Michael Madsen as Sonny Black in Donnie Brasco. Lots of little things reminded me of homages to earlier films in the genre.
That never occurred to me. Wasn't Tony Pro the same actor who played Capone in Boardwalk Empire?
Worst gangster movie of all time. Dinero the fake tough guy liberal, Pacino with his worst performance of all time and Pesci looking as limp dicked as ever. Only good is Artie Buccos wife looking hot.
PB, great to see you! How realistic did u find the portrayals of some of these guys?
Thank you, Baldo. I'll be spending more time here now. But not so much in the OC threads. Just a personal choice at this stage of my life. Anywhooooooo........
I thought they were pretty much all on the spot with a few minor exceptions. Those first. I already mentioned DeNiro in the grocery store scene looking silly. But there was one other. When he was tossing the guns in the Hudson after he killed Gallo, his hands actually stopped a few times. Like he had the yips in golf, or like an arthritic man trying to masturbate lol. BUT, in the scene where he accepted his award, he said he didn't deserve his bursitis, either. I don't think that was an accident. I think Scorsese intentionally wrote that into the script to excuse DeNiro's gait and overall movements. The only miscast actors I saw were minor. Sebastian Maniscaco is a phenomenal comedian, and maybe he'll pick up some acting chops a la Ray Romano some day. And it's not that his acting was off. But I picked up his Chicago accent loud and clear. He LOOKED Brooklyn circa 1972, but he didn't sound it. His Italian American vernacular was over the top. Just my opinion. And I had to laugh at Steven Van Zandt as Jerry Vale. They should have de-aged HIM. And put him on Atkins. Because at the height of his career, Jerry Vale was trim and good looking. But I'm glad they used his real voice. He sang like an angel.
Okay, critique aside. I thought they nailed it. I won't even go into too much detail about the big four (Pacino, DeNiro, Keitel and Pesci). We knew they were gonna bring it. But Pacino ran away with the film. And I'm not fan-boying here, either. His presence was felt in every scene he was in. If this were a two hour film, picking up when Hoffa and Sheeran met, and culminating with Hoffa's disappearance, you could make a case for Pacino having equal billing in the lead. If that were the case, he'd be worthy of Best Actor. But who knows with the Academy? As it stands, he should run away with Best Supporting Actor. But if Pesci gets nominated, too, they might hurt each other and give it away.
Bobby Cannavale was great. He's half-Cuban, half-Italian, and the look comes natural to him. Early on I did a double take. I thought I was looking at Chazz in A Bronx Tale. And he can act, too. He's been around a long time now and deserved to be cast. I just wish there was a spot for Ray Liotta. I mean, I guess Marty didn't wanna make such a broad comparison to Goodfellas, but there were a few bit actors from the former film in The Irishman. And Ray Romano shocked the shit outta me. I mean Everybody Loves Raymond, but that's what I was afraid of, Ray Barone as a mob lawyer. I was dead wrong. He was fantastic.
Incredible film. I'd place it just above Casino and right there behind Raging Bull and Goodfellas. But that's in the Scorsese universe so it's not even fair. Because in the end, it was a better film than what 90 percent of the rest of Hollywood puts out these days.
I loved it.That they tampered with historical accuracy didn't bother me at all. Everything in the film was plausible if not factual. Do I believe that Sheeran killed Hoffa? Probably not. But did a guy LIKE Sheeran kill Hoffa? You bet. Same for Gallo. Ludicrous. But a guy LIKE Sheeran was a shooter. A career criminal. A thug. A murderer. Was Hoffa cremated? Who knows? COULD he have been cremated? Absolutely. Especially given the mob's association with a lot of the old independent Italian funeral homes. So, like I said, it's plausible if not factual.
The CGI didn't bother me. What I did notice was that their bodies betrayed them more than their faces. They might have looked fiftyish at points, but they all moved every bit of 75 or 80. The scene outside the grocery store is especially telling. Sheeran would have been a young man there. When DeNiro is stomping the grocer, he looks like an old man kicking a cat in the ass to chase him off the lawn. Just go back to Goodfellas at the bar when he's stomping Batts. DeNiro was in his mid-forties there. And he moved like it. Sheeran would have been younger in the grocery scene than DeNiro was in Goodfellas. Enough said about that because, overall, in film sometimes you just have to look the other way sometimes.
Now, the acting was brilliant. No one's gonna argue that. I've read that a lot of people on social meeting have called it "boring," and I think I know why. Most people on social media are younger. This film is a gangster movie but only to a degree. The overall theme of the film is about aging with loss and regret and guilt. Jesus, is there anything sadder than a lonely old man picking out his own casket? But sometimes people die alone, especially people who made terrible life choices, like Sheeran and company. So how's a 20 or 30 year old gonna relate to that? Well, I turned 60 in October and I get it. Boy, do I get it.
Oh, one more thing. I really like how Pacino looked at the peak of Hoffa's career. That's how an older Michael Corleone SHOULD have looked.
Happy to see you back PB! I think many younger people have short attention spans. But there are some people who are older who felt the same way. I was listening to Bill Simmons speak about the movie and he criticized the movie to no end on his podcast show.
Quick observation. I'll probably do this more than once lol. But when Tony Pro showed up at the meeting in shorts he reminded me of Michael Madsen as Sonny Black in Donnie Brasco. Lots of little things reminded me of homages to earlier films in the genre.
That never occurred to me. Wasn't Tony Pro the same actor who played Capone in Boardwalk Empire?
Yes, Oli. Stephen Graham. He's a Brit, and a fine actor.
Newbie here. Been lurking for a few years and I finally signed up.
I enjoyed it. The big 3 were great and I thought Romano was outstanding. The one downer for me was Maniscalco. Love him as a comedian and thought he was great in Green Book but just wasn't believable.
Didn't seem like over 3 hours. I'll watch it again for sure.
Good to see you back PB, you've been missed. Great insights into the film. I'm really looking forward to watching this on DVD release after hearing so many good things about this film..
I liked all the cameos and callbacks to previous movies/shows:
Instrumental version of pretend you don't see her Van Zandt playing the singer Actor who played Michael Spilotro in Casino was the owner of the Jewelry store where they were chastising his son Lois the babysitter from Goodfellas as Jo Hoffa Vinny Vella as the meat yard manager Crazy Mario from Bronx Tale playing David Ferrie (whom Pesci played in JFK)
Quick observation. I'll probably do this more than once lol. But when Tony Pro showed up at the meeting in shorts he reminded me of Michael Madsen as Sonny Black in Donnie Brasco. Lots of little things reminded me of homages to earlier films in the genre.
Speaking of homage to genres (intended or accidental), there were a few in Irishman:
Frank is estranged from his daughter Peggy; Tony is estranged from his father,
Peggy seems to know that her father is a murderer; "Tony knows you killed Fredo".
The baptism scenes.
Frank tells his daughter he wanted to protect his family; Michael tells Kay the same thing
I thought they nailed it. I won't even go into too much detail about the big four (Pacino, DeNiro, Keitel and Pesci). We knew they were gonna bring it. But Pacino ran away with the film. And I'm not fan-boying here, either. His presence was felt in every scene he was in. If this were a two hour film, picking up when Hoffa and Sheeran met, and culminating with Hoffa's disappearance, you could make a case for Pacino having equal billing in the lead. If that were the case, he'd be worthy of Best Actor. But who knows with the Academy? As it stands, he should run away with Best Supporting Actor. But if Pesci gets nominated, too, they might hurt each other and give it away.
Agree. And, "who knows with the Academy?" may be the understatement of the year. And, as for welcome, I'll paraphrase Fredo to Frankie at Anthony's party: "Pizzaboy, I thought you was never comin' back!"
Will this movie cause an influx of mob movies? And I’m not sure if anyone has asked this, but isn’t it a plot hole that Hoffa’s foster son Chuckie never put two and two together and realized that Sally and Frank were the last two people to see Hoffa other than him?
From what I've heard, Chuckie wasn't in the car when Hoffa was murdered (probably just added to the movie for dramatic effect).
Maybe I'm naïve, but I was second guessing if they were going to retcon things during that scene. Especially seeing as Chuckie was in the car.
BTW, what do you guys think of the movie Hoffa with Jack Nicholson and Danny De Vito?
Seeing as I've watched The Irishman twice already, I plan on watching that one again soon as somewhat of a companion piece.
Nicholson's portrayal of Hoffa was much better than Pacino's, but Pacino did well. Nicholson had Hoffa's facial expressions and especially the voice down pat. Overall, I liked Hoffa, but it did not have the gravitas that I expected from it.
I thought Hoffa (1992) was a fine film. But you have to be ready to throw away historical accuracy in that movie as well. Nicholson was Nicholson, and Danny DeVito, who directed as well, surprised me with his acting chops. But I think the film's strongest performance came from Armand Assante, based on a composite of Tony Provenzano and Tony Giacalone. That he went on to portray Gotti EXACTLY the same way isn't surprising. Because Assante has a knack for playing those roles exactly the same. A little one dimensional but powerful.
David Thomson, the great British film critic, wrote that a "movie star" is an actor who's always identifiable as himself, no matter what role he plays. Quintessential example was Clark Gable. I'd add Nicholson, Newman and, as you point out, Assante.
When Hoffa anoints Fitzsimmons at a Teamsters convention in Miami, the scene opens with an aerial view of the city. The music that plays is "Melancholy Serenade," which was the theme from "The Jackie Gleason Show." Gleason relocated to Miami toward the end of his career.
When Hoffa anoints Fitzsimmons at a Teamsters convention in Miami, the scene opens with an aerial view of the city. The music that plays is "Melancholy Serenade," which was the theme from "The Jackie Gleason Show." Gleason relocated to Miami toward the end of his career.
TB, I immediately recognized that theme. Pretty cool.
As we do, we watch the Trilogy time after time and each time notice things we never noticed before. I've watched the Irishman several times now and I'm starting to notice some things. One is Frank's daughter Peggy's wary glance at Bufalino and his cohorts even at the baptism. Then, many years later as a woman, she is dancing with Hoffa and again glancing warily over his shoulder at Bufalino, Provenzano, and Salerno. I love that kind of continuity in these saga type movies.
Excellent review Pizzaboy. You nailed it all around.
I liked the movie.
I know that there is directorial licensing and all, but one thing bothered me: The fact that they didn't tell the audience that part of the deal that Fitzimmons made with President Nixon for Hoffa's pardon was that Hoffa could never run for any office with the Teamsters as a condition of the pardon,,,,,something that Hoffa found out after his release. In my opinion that was a fact that should have been included in the script as I think that it would have lent more credence as to how pissed off Hoffa really was, and how Fitz manipulated it in order to secure his position as President and screw Hoffa.
Just watched a video from WatchMojo which cites several true or false scenes in the movie. It might be worth a look by some Board members.
I also just read that the FBI has scheduled another dig to look for his remains. Crazy. But wouldn't it be some shit if they found him now, right after the film depiction? But like DeNiro says, It's what it is lol.
PB; just wondering.... do you think those guys actually said “ ITS WHAT IT IS†or do you think it might have been “ IT IS WHAT IT IS†?
I’ve heard and used it is what it is†but never the other.
I looked up the usage of both terms and found “ It is what it is†is a trademarked and has a copyright.
I wonder if they were refused the licensing or did not want to get the agreement to use for whatever reason and used an adjusted version of the term.
Goodfellas fans may have noticed that the entrance to the Copacabana, where Sheeran and Bufalino have their run-in with Crazy Joe Gallo, is the same entrance that Scorsese used in Goodfellas, when Henry and Karen have their night out.
Goodfellas fans may have noticed that the entrance to the Copacabana, where Sheeran and Bufalino have their run-in with Crazy Joe Gallo, is the same entrance that Scorsese used in Goodfellas, when Henry and Karen have their night out.
Yes TB, I thought that entrance way looked familiar.
Also, why did they represent Salerno as the boss in the early 70s? He ran a large numbers racket, but he didn't assume his front Don role in the Genovese family until the 80s.
Goodfellas fans may have noticed that the entrance to the Copacabana, where Sheeran and Bufalino have their run-in with Crazy Joe Gallo, is the same entrance that Scorsese used in Goodfellas, when Henry and Karen have their night out.
Yes TB, I thought that entrance way looked familiar.
Also, why did they represent Salerno as the boss in the early 70s? He ran a large numbers racket, but he didn't assume his front Don role in the Genovese family until the 80s.
I don’t think they said he was the boss at the time but I could be incorrect. Just a very important member of the Genovese family.
I thought Hoffa (1992) was a fine film. But you have to be ready to throw away historical accuracy in that movie as well. Nicholson was Nicholson, and Danny DeVito, who directed as well, surprised me with his acting chops. But I think the film's strongest performance came from Armand Assante, based on a composite of Tony Provenzano and Tony Giacalone. That he went on to portray Gotti EXACTLY the same way isn't surprising. Because Assante has a knack for playing those roles exactly the same. A little one dimensional but powerful.
Some actors are meant to play certain roles; Assante is one of them: gangster. To me his portrayal of Gotti is like Brando's portrayal of Vito. Noone should ever play Gotti again except Assante. His rapid fire speech pattern is something I always look forward to hearing.
Yeah, he was definitely the best of the people I've seen that played Gotti. Speaking of Nicholson being Nicholson, Travolta was just doing Travolta wearing a Gotti-esque wig... there was nothing to that performance, his voice or anything whatsoever. Sizemore was just weird looking as Gotti, ha. Probably didn't help the dialogue was PG13 with everyone calling everyone sleezebags and scumballs and whatnot either.
Just watched a video from WatchMojo which cites several true or false scenes in the movie. It might be worth a look by some Board members.
I also just read that the FBI has scheduled another dig to look for his remains. Crazy. But wouldn't it be some shit if they found him now, right after the film depiction? But like DeNiro says, It's what it is lol.
PB; just wondering.... do you think those guys actually said “ ITS WHAT IT IS†or do you think it might have been “ IT IS WHAT IT IS†?
I’ve heard and used it is what it is†but never the other.
I looked up the usage of both terms and found “ It is what it is†is a trademarked and has a copyright.
I wonder if they were refused the licensing or did not want to get the agreement to use for whatever reason and used an adjusted version of the term.
I agree. To me it's not even gangster lingo. Just the way blue collar guys speak in general. I've always heard, and said, "It is what it is."
Will this movie cause an influx of mob movies? And I’m not sure if anyone has asked this, but isn’t it a plot hole that Hoffa’s foster son Chuckie never put two and two together and realized that Sally and Frank were the last two people to see Hoffa other than him?
I don't think so. And if there are I don't think they'll be good. There really haven't been that many good mob movies, and only a few people in the industry know how to make them. Another problem is that millennial actors can't play mobsters very well at all. They're too removed and detached from the generation and era. They don't have grandparents from that generation like Gen X'ers do, or parents from that generation like boomers do. They don't have a real life basis to go on. All they can do is read about it, watch documentaries, news footage, but it's just not the same.
When Hoffa anoints Fitzsimmons at a Teamsters convention in Miami, the scene opens with an aerial view of the city. The music that plays is "Melancholy Serenade," which was the theme from "The Jackie Gleason Show." Gleason relocated to Miami toward the end of his career.
When Hoffa anoints Fitzsimmons at a Teamsters convention in Miami, the scene opens with an aerial view of the city. The music that plays is "Melancholy Serenade," which was the theme from "The Jackie Gleason Show." Gleason relocated to Miami toward the end of his career.
When Hoffa anoints Fitzsimmons at a Teamsters convention in Miami, the scene opens with an aerial view of the city. The music that plays is "Melancholy Serenade," which was the theme from "The Jackie Gleason Show." Gleason relocated to Miami toward the end of his career.
Loved it, TB. I picked that right up.
I knew you would, PB. "And a-wa-a-a-a-y we go!"
It's a shame that probably most young people don't recognize that music and thus can't understand it's role in the movie. As Frank narrates during the film, most young people today don't even know the name Jimmy Hoffa let alone his role in American (and Mob) history. For many of we Board members, as soon as we heard In the Still of the Night in the opening scene, we understood time, place, and subject. So, so cool.
Worst gangster movie of all time. Dinero the fake tough guy liberal, Pacino with his worst performance of all time and Pesci looking as limp dicked as ever. Only good is Artie Buccos wife looking hot.
Lmao I would eat Artie buccos wife’s ass she is so fine.
Worst gangster movie of all time. Dinero the fake tough guy liberal, Pacino with his worst performance of all time and Pesci looking as limp dicked as ever. Only good is Artie Buccos wife looking hot.
Lmao I would eat Artie buccos wife’s ass she is so fine.
I would let her use my tongue as her toilet paper.
I actually loved Maniscalco. I can’t really speak about his accent and mannerism, but I enjoyed his short appearance and I reckon he nailed the in-your-face attitude of Gallo. He looks like him too...
Excellent review Pizzaboy. You nailed it all around.
I liked the movie.
I know that there is directorial licensing and all, but one thing bothered me: The fact that they didn't tell the audience that part of the deal that Fitzimmons made with President Nixon for Hoffa's pardon was that Hoffa could never run for any office with the Teamsters as a condition of the pardon,,,,,something that Hoffa found out after his release. In my opinion that was a fact that should have been included in the script as I think that it would have lent more credence as to how pissed off Hoffa really was, and how Fitz manipulated it in order to secure his position as President and screw Hoffa.
I think Scorsese glossed over this because he didnt want the final act to basically have the same plot as the Nicholson movie. I think he wanted it to be mostly about Sheeran and Buffalino. Hoffa doesnt enter the movie until about an hour in and theres about 45 min. of runtime after his death. Had Pacino not signed on there might have even been less Hoffa.
I liked all the cameos and callbacks to previous movies/shows:
Instrumental version of pretend you don't see her Van Zandt playing the singer Actor who played Michael Spilotro in Casino was the owner of the Jewelry store where they were chastising his son Lois the babysitter from Goodfellas as Jo Hoffa Vinny Vella as the meat yard manager Crazy Mario from Bronx Tale playing David Ferrie (whom Pesci played in JFK)
Crazy Mario! Great find. I had no idea.
I recognized lucky hat girl from Goodfellas the first time i saw it. I read some interview with her a few years back where she said she felt like she should act like a pothead in Goodfellas among all those coke dealing and snorting wiseguys. That attitude helped her play off of Liotta and it worked for the screen. Liotta, in character, was just getting more pissed. Lol.
The guy who played Whispers was the Pittsburgh connection in Goodfellas, and Beans in Sopranos.
Some people have commented on how old (feeble?) DeNiro looks when, as young Sheeran, he's stomping on the grocer early on in the film. He looks even more elderly when he's gingerly stepping over rocks to get rid of the Crazy Joe assassination guns. In fact, he reminded me of me, since he and I are about the same age.
I dont know why they didn't just use a stunt double for those scenes. I wonder if theyre using cgi as a trial balloon to get rid of stuntpersons, make up people, etc altogether.
When he slowly shuffled up to that man's hand I thought he was going to stumble over it rather than step on it. That scene was ridiculous. Wasn't he supposed to be in his late 30's or early 40's?
Didn't help that the coat he was wearing looked too big and he was doing an awkward move with his hand holding the sleeve up. He looked feeble. They should have definitely filmed that better, by either digitally putting DeNiro's younger face on a young actor's body, or done it in a way where they showed just the foot of a different actor stomping on the hand or something. Not a deal breaker either way but a weird thing to have shot and thought, "Yeah, that looks good. That's a wrap!"
The more I watch this the more I realize that this was the movie Scorsese wanted to make when he did Casino.
In Casino he gives Ace Rothstein a somewhat positive ending. Mean Streets, Goodfellas, and Casino didn't really go into the aftermath of the lead characters. They end just as the party's over. They don't go into the loneliness and despair. Raging Bull sort of does but it's also not necessarily a mob movie. And as far as we can see, "Tommy Como" or any of his associates go on to business as usual, perhaps die peaceful deaths off screen.
The Irishman was the first gangster film Scorsese really got to make where he had an hour to deep dive into the sad decay of a former wiseguy, where all their friends are dead and their families won't have anything to do with them because of their past.
I wonder if Scorsese didn't bother using a stunt double in these scenes where DeNiro physically looks old for this very reason. Even though he's portraying a young man in some of these scenes, his old posture foreshadows his meek status in life at the end of the film.
I think the de-aging technology worked well in many scenes, for example the scenes with Sheeran and Skinny Razor. Skinny looked older than Sheeran, meanwhile Bobby Cannavale is nearly 30 years younger than DeNiro. A lot of this is just DeNiro's good acting and the wardrobe, Skinny wearing suits while Sheeran had a more working class attire early in the film.
The more I watch this the more I realize that this was the movie Scorsese wanted to make when he did Casino.
In Casino he gives Ace Rothstein a somewhat positive ending. Mean Streets, Goodfellas, and Casino didn't really go into the aftermath of the lead characters. They end just as the party's over. They don't go into the loneliness and despair. Raging Bull sort of does but it's also not necessarily a mob movie. And as far as we can see, "Tommy Como" or any of his associates go on to business as usual, perhaps die peaceful deaths off screen.
The Irishman was the first gangster film Scorsese really got to make where he had an hour to deep dive into the sad decay of a former wiseguy, where all their friends are dead and their families won't have anything to do with them because of their past.
I wonder if Scorsese didn't bother using a stunt double in these scenes where DeNiro physically looks old for this very reason. Even though he's portraying a young man in some of these scenes, his old posture foreshadows his meek status in life at the end of the film.
The Irishman is an end of life film. You can see the progression from his earlier films where, slowly but surely, the life doesn't look so attractive anymore. No comeuppance for Michael or Giovanni in Mean Streets or even Salvi or Tommy in Raging Bull. Then again, maybe Scorsese didn't feel they needed it because they weren't written as being totally ruthless or crazy. Then we get to Pesci's characters in Goodfellas and Casino. Both pyscho monsters who are cut down in their prime as a result of their actions. Neither death was sad, although both were brutal. But at almost 80 years old, I think Scorsese was finally ready to approach a life full lived for these guys, and it wasn't pretty. I honestly felt nothing for Sheeran in the film (much like his daughter). But I DID feel for the Bufalino character, although he was every bit the murderer that Sheeran was. Watching him in prison got me to sympathize with him. But at the end of the day, if Bufalino had ordered the death of a loved one, I'd more than likely say fuck him, let him rot like Manson. The film was a great character study on aging with guilt and regret.
Another nice detail I picked up after the fourth viewing:
Scorsese is fanatical about using authentic-looking people in his backgrounds. He did it in all the gangster movies. Here you see them--exactly as you'd expect them to look--in, for example, the second Sheeran christening, the Bufalino wedding, in the house where Hoffa was killed, in the restaurant where Bruno confronts Sheeran about bombing the laundry, in the bar where he's about to meet Skinny...
I honestly felt nothing for Sheeran in the film (much like his daughter). But I DID feel for the Bufalino character, although he was every bit the murderer that Sheeran was. Watching him in prison got me to sympathize with him. But at the end of the day, if Bufalino had ordered the death of a loved one, I'd more than likely say fuck him, let him rot like Manson. The film was a great character study on aging with guilt and regret.
That paralleled Michael's end days in III. I have no sympathy for any of them., They should die horribly and alone shunned by all except the undertaker.
I give kudos to Scorsese for Peggy's story arch. Even as a child she was wary of not only Bufalino, but her father also. When she danced with Hoffa while looking over his shoulder at Provanzano, Bufalino, and Salerno, one flashed back to her looking at her dad as she stood in the doorway while the TV recounted Gallo's murder and when she asked her Dad why he hadn't yet called Jo Hoffa. I love that kind of continuity which was so manifest in the Trilogy.
Yes TB, the authentic-looking people in all those scenes is part of the continuity I refer to.
By the way, any thoughts about why Scorsese used such slow, slow motion especially in the wedding scene?
In the special feature on Netflix where they're all at a restaurant talking about their careers, Pesci says he was willing to play Tony Pro, but that Scorsese insisted on him playing a boss this time.
I noticed Scorsese likes to use early rock and roll ballads as opposed to the classical "Rat Pack" pop most mobsters were probably listening to in the 1950s. The music Scorsese uses in this period is typically what teenagers listened to. Makes sense considering he was one at this time. This could have something to do with frequent collaborator Robbie Robertson (of The Band), too, who was music producer in this and many of Scorsese's other films.
By the way, any thoughts about why Scorsese used such slow, slow motion especially in the wedding scene?
Oli, I think at least part of the reason was to emphasize the hypocrisy of Mob life.Sheeran had just cold-bloodely murdered his benefactor on the orders of a Mob boss, and now he, that boss, and a bunch of other murderous Mob guys (that he's giving us a long look at, to my point earlier) are in church, looking on warmly and benevolently, as the Mob lawyer's daughter receives the sacrament of marriage.
I noticed Scorsese likes to use early rock and roll ballads as opposed to the classical "Rat Pack" pop most mobsters were probably listening to in the 1950s. The music Scorsese uses in this period is typically what teenagers listened to. Makes sense considering he was one at this time. This could have something to do with frequent collaborator Robbie Robertson (of The Band), too, who was music producer in this and many of Scorsese's other films.
Scorsese's great about that. But, this time, the R&R songs did not fit the chronology of the scenes they were used in, whereas in "Mean Streets," "Goodfellas" and "Casino," the songs were exactly those that were popular at the time depicted in the scenes.
Since I am of a certain age, I thought the most brilliant match of song-to-scene was in "Mean Streets," when Charlie is looking in a mirror lovingly at himself trying on the mongrammed shirt his mother bought him. The background song is "I Love You So" by the Chantels--perfecto! I saw the Chantels several times at the Alan Freed R&R shows at the Brooklyn Paramount in the Fifties. Arlene Smith, the lead singer, was about 14 or 15, but she was, uh, completely "filled out" and wore a tight white dress. All the horny teenaged boys (like me) were howling away at her. Her uncle, a churchy-looking type, played piano behind the group--and stared daggers at us. If looks could kill...
Scorsese's great about that. But, this time, the R&R songs did not fit the chronology of the scenes they were used in, whereas in "Mean Streets," "Goodfellas" and "Casino," the songs were exactly those that were popular at the time depicted in the scenes.
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TB, I agree to an extent. I don't know his reason for Johnnie Ray's Cry when Dorfman's car was being shot up (I do like that song). Of course, Maybe he wasn't trying to follow a chronology, but simply using some songs to fit the scene.
But one thing's for sure: when the film opened with In the Still of the Night, I was hooked.
I think Scorsese used those songs because it just takes him back to that time. He seems to avoid the classical pop, the Sinatra, Dean Martin, etc. He'll throw the occasional rat pack number in there but overall all of his mob movies tend to be scored with early rock and roll, soul ballads.
Yes, Turnbull, the scene in Mean Streets is great. Also "Florence" when they're driving to the pool hall. The biscuit song. "Pledging My Love" when Charlie is dancing with that girl after that vet loses it.
Yes, Turnbull, the scene in Mean Streets is great. Also "Florence" when they're driving to the pool hall. The biscuit song. "Pledging My Love" when Charlie is dancing with that girl after that vet loses it.
Yes, indeed, Oak, great picks! "Florence" by the Paragons going to the pool hall is my second-favorite among many great pairings in "Mean Streets." Notice how the guys are completely disoriented when they leave their neighborhood--a realistic touch for that era. The "biscuit" song is "Rubber Biscuit" by the Chips--another New York Doo-Wop. "Pledging My Love" by Johnny Ace, is another great, and poignant, match--he died from an accidental, self-inflicted gunshot wound not long after that all-time make-out special.
It's the aerial shot of Tony's beautiful blue Imperial LeBaron sliding through the back streets. Back when Little Italy was very much Little Italy.
Never knew about Johnny Ace's death. And man, this makes the tune all the more haunting. From wikipedia:
Quote
It was widely reported that Ace killed himself playing Russian roulette.[5][6][7] However, Big Mama Thornton's bass player, Curtis Tillman, who witnessed the event, said, "I will tell you exactly what happened! Johnny Ace had been drinking and he had this little pistol he was waving around the table and someone said ‘Be careful with that thing…’ and he said ‘It’s okay! Gun’s not loaded… see?’ and pointed it at himself with a smile on his face and ‘Bang!’
I saw the movie last night. I thought it was great. Only one minor thing that bothered me, DeNiro talks more like a New York guy than a Philly guy like Sheeran must have talked. It's such a small thing though, that it didn't change the movie for me. I loved the old trucks and cars, too. They seemed correct for the time.
I saw the movie last night. I thought it was great. Only one minor thing that bothered me, DeNiro talks more like a New York guy than a Philly guy like Sheeran must have talked. It's such a small thing though, that it didn't change the movie for me. I loved the old trucks and cars, too. They seemed correct for the time.
That's EXACTLY how I felt about Sebastian Maniscalco as Gallo. He did a good enough job but I could hear his Chicago patois loud and clear. But like you say, that's a tiny nitpick.
Yes, Turnbull, the scene in Mean Streets is great. Also "Florence" when they're driving to the pool hall. The biscuit song. "Pledging My Love" when Charlie is dancing with that girl after that vet loses it.
Yes, indeed, Oak, great picks! "Florence" by the Paragons going to the pool hall is my second-favorite among many great pairings in "Mean Streets." Notice how the guys are completely disoriented when they leave their neighborhood--a realistic touch for that era. The "biscuit" song is "Rubber Biscuit" by the Chips--another New York Doo-Wop. "Pledging My Love" by Johnny Ace, is another great, and poignant, match--he died from an accidental, self-inflicted gunshot wound not long after that all-time make-out special.
Be My Baby and Jumpin Jack Flash are the most obvious choices. But in my opinion they're also the best. Each fit their respective scenes perfectly.
I just read an interesting interview that Tarantino had with Scorsese. Apparently the studio wanted Jon Voight as Charlie. At one point there was even talk of Keitel stepping aside to play Johnny Boy. Voight ended up turning them down so it was much ado about nothing. BUT both David Proval and Richard Romanus were acting students of Voight's. Scorsese ended up casting them while observing Voight's classes.
That's EXACTLY how I felt about Sebastian Maniscalco as Gallo. He did a good enough job but I could hear his Chicago patois loud and clear. But like you say, that's a tiny nitpick.
Yeah, I agree. I never met Joey Gallo, so I don't really know. But Maniscalco's acting kind of fits what I think Joey must have been like. More like the attitude he portrays than anything else.
I just read an interesting interview that Tarantino had with Scorsese. Apparently the studio wanted Jon Voight as Charlie. At one point there was even talk of Keitel stepping aside to play Johnny Boy. Voight ended up turning them down so it was much ado about nothing. BUT both David Proval and Richard Romanus were acting students of Voight's. Scorsese ended up casting them while observing Voight's classes.
People might think of Jon Voight now and laugh but thinking of how he was in the 70's, he could have played Charlie well. A young, brash man who had Charlie's charisma, like Keitel. The advantage I think Keitel had however was growing up in Brooklyn, as opposed to Voight having grown up in White Planes. Keitel just got it in a way that I don't think Voight would have.
I just read an interesting interview that Tarantino had with Scorsese. Apparently the studio wanted Jon Voight as Charlie. At one point there was even talk of Keitel stepping aside to play Johnny Boy. Voight ended up turning them down so it was much ado about nothing. BUT both David Proval and Richard Romanus were acting students of Voight's. Scorsese ended up casting them while observing Voight's classes.
People might think of Jon Voight now and laugh but thinking of how he was in the 70's, he could have played Charlie well. A young, brash man who had Charlie's charisma, like Keitel. The advantage I think Keitel had however was growing up in Brooklyn, as opposed to Voight having grown up in White Planes. Keitel just got it in a way that I don't think Voight would have.
You're close, Oak. But Voight grew up in Yonkers. And I agree. Voight is the most underrated actor of his generation.
As with the Trilogy, there are questions (at least I have some) about The Irishman some of which concern the storyline and others concern production choices.
For one, in the opening scene:
why does the camera moving down the hall briefly angle to the right? why don't Frank's lips move for a few seconds once he begins his narration? to whom is Frank speaking? Are we to imagine that he is being interviewed although noone sits across from him?
I think he might have been talking to the priest we see at the end, though not everything he was saying at the beginning fits that view.
I think of DeNiro's Johnny Boy as his second best performance, after LaMotta in"Raging Bull." Keitel was wonderful, too. "Mean Streets" has that almost-magical Scorsese talent for making scripted scenes look like they're ad-libbed. The scene in the back of Tony's bar when Charlie is haranguing Johnny Boy about paying his debts, and they're talking about the girls "Is she the one on my left, or your left" will never be surpassed.
I think of DeNiro's Johnny Boy as his second best performance, after LaMotta in"Raging Bull." Keitel was wonderful, too. "Mean Streets" has that almost-magical Scorsese talent for making scripted scenes look like they're ad-libbed. The scene in the back of Tony's bar when Charlie is haranguing Johnny Boy about paying his debts, and they're talking about the girls "Is she the one on my left, or your left" will never be surpassed.
Still my favorite after all these years. I was 14 when Mean Streets came out and honestly didn't see it in theatres (I have seen it since on multiple occasions when it runs in a revival type movie house). I guess I saw it for the first time around 1980. The 8th Street Street Playhouse had it on a double bill with Raging Bull. My aunt lived across the street. And what I loved is that, in the scene where the gay guys are getting rousted in the car, you not only see the sign for West 8th Street, you also see the old 69 cent store that was literally spitting distance from my aunt and uncle's apartment!
Please look for it upon your next viewing for me, TB. My little brother, who's 56 now lol, and I spent countless Sundays running down to that store with pockets fulls of change. So there are very personal reasons involved for me, but even without that nice personal touch, Mean Streets will ALWAYS be my favorite Scorsese film. Because it's the most raw and endearing NYC film I've ever seen next to The Sweet Smell of Success.
And, TB. When you post these little tidbits, it makes me happy that I've returned here. So if you see posting more than a casual observation in the OC threads, please kick my ass off. Because I don't wanna take another four years off😂😂.
The scene in the back of Tony's bar when Charlie is haranguing Johnny Boy about paying his debts, and they're talking about the girls "Is she the one on my left, or your left" will never be surpassed.
I think DeNiro and Keitel did a little tribute to their Mean Street banter in Irishman. When Bruno asks Sheeran if he knows who else owns a piece of the laundry service and Sheeran says he doesn't know, then Bruno says he does. Sheeran says something like "oh, you know who?" and Bruno replies, "No, I do, as in I own the place". lol. That was right out of Mean Streets. Actually reminded of the "we're both staring the same direction" line.
The 8th Street Street Playhouse had it on a double bill with Raging Bull. My aunt lived across the street. And what I loved is that, in the scene where the gay guys are getting rousted in the car, you not only see the sign for West 8th Street, you also see the old 69 cent store that was literally spitting distance from my aunt and uncle's apartment!
Please look for it upon your next viewing for me, TB. My little brother, who's 56 now lol, and I spent countless Sundays running down to that store with pockets fulls of change. So there are very personal reasons involved for me, but even without that nice personal touch, Mean Streets will ALWAYS be my favorite Scorsese film. Because it's the most raw and endearing NYC film I've ever seen next to The Sweet Smell of Success.
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Yup, I spotted the 69 Cent Store tonight while watching "Mean Streets" for about the 500th time. Florsheim Shoes, too. And, the gun store, which I think was on Chambers Street. Didn't see Elpine or Benedict, PB Eighth Street Playhouse was one of a string of "Art Movie Houses" that showed foreign films in the Fifties and Sixties. Owned by Rugoff Theaters. My aunt worked for them. As a result, no one in our family every paid for a movie ticket. Made a big impression on my bride-to-be--she thought I was "sophisticated" because I had a taste for "art movies." My taste actually was for "free movies."
The scene in the back of Tony's bar when Charlie is haranguing Johnny Boy about paying his debts, and they're talking about the girls "Is she the one on my left, or your left" will never be surpassed.
I think DeNiro and Keitel did a little tribute to their Mean Street banter in Irishman. When Bruno asks Sheeran if he knows who else owns a piece of the laundry service and Sheeran says he doesn't know, then Bruno says he does. Sheeran says something like "oh, you know who?" and Bruno replies, "No, I do, as in I own the place". lol. That was right out of Mean Streets. Actually reminded of the "we're both staring the same direction" line.
For those of you who are interested, Youtube provides several videos that analyze parts of the film. I watched one them this afternoon and it did point out some things about the film that escaped me. They're interesting. I especially encourage those who expected a shoot 'em up gangster film to view a couple of these Youtube videos. They help explain Scorsese's approach and motivation.
By the way, I thought that exchange between Bruno and Frank to be quite amusing. I also noted Bufalino's expression during the exchange; he seemed to be amused also.
Eighth Street Playhouse was one of a string of "Art Movie Houses" that showed foreign films in the Fifties and Sixties. Owned by Rugoff Theaters. My aunt worked for them. As a result, no one in our family every paid for a movie ticket. Made a big impression on my bride-to-be--she thought I was "sophisticated" because I had a taste for "art movies." My taste actually was for "free movies."
Unreal, TB. These coincidences have been going on for fourteen years now. Too fast for me. Anyway, yup, 8th Street Playhouse was an art house place. Same goes for the Waverly which was on Sixth Avenue and West Third Street. And oddly enough, you'd never think of the Rocky Horror Picture Show as high art. But it actually opened at the Waverly but ended up running for more than ten years at the 8th Street Playhouse. And let me tell ya, it may have been all in good fun, but living across the street from that freak show at midnight on a Saturday night was no picnic 😂.
Eighth Street Playhouse was one of a string of "Art Movie Houses" that showed foreign films in the Fifties and Sixties. Owned by Rugoff Theaters. My aunt worked for them. As a result, no one in our family every paid for a movie ticket. Made a big impression on my bride-to-be--she thought I was "sophisticated" because I had a taste for "art movies." My taste actually was for "free movies."
Unreal, TB. These coincidences have been going on for fourteen years now. Too fast for me. Anyway, yup, 8th Street Playhouse was an art house place. Same goes for the Waverly which was on Sixth Avenue and West Third Street. And oddly enough, you'd never think of the Rocky Horror Picture Show as high art. But it actually opened at the Waverly but ended up running for more than ten years at the 8th Street Playhouse. And let me tell ya, it may have been all in good fun, but living across the street from that freak show at midnight on a Saturday night was no picnic 😂.
Amazing, saw The Rocket Horror Picture Show in 1978 at The 8th St. Playhouse Nyc when I was 15yrs old.
Eighth Street Playhouse was one of a string of "Art Movie Houses" that showed foreign films in the Fifties and Sixties. Owned by Rugoff Theaters. My aunt worked for them. As a result, no one in our family every paid for a movie ticket. Made a big impression on my bride-to-be--she thought I was "sophisticated" because I had a taste for "art movies." My taste actually was for "free movies."
Unreal, TB. These coincidences have been going on for fourteen years now. Too fast for me. Anyway, yup, 8th Street Playhouse was an art house place. Same goes for the Waverly which was on Sixth Avenue and West Third Street. And oddly enough, you'd never think of the Rocky Horror Picture Show as high art. But it actually opened at the Waverly but ended up running for more than ten years at the 8th Street Playhouse. And let me tell ya, it may have been all in good fun, but living across the street from that freak show at midnight on a Saturday night was no picnic 😂.
Amazing, saw The Rocket Horror Picture Show in 1978 at The 8th St. Playhouse Nyc when I was 15yrs old.
Never forget it.
Wow. Another coincidence! And I was 19 in '78, DP. I kinda had a handle on your age from interacting with you here. Now I know for sure lol.
I rewatched THE IRISHMAN last night and enjoyed it even more a second time around. However, for those of us who weren't born yet, a question for those who were alive during this time: how do you feel about Hoffa, the Teamsters, and Unions in general? I know they pretty much got broken up back in the 1980's but if Hoffa had lived and regained control of the union, where do you think we as a country would be today in terms of the gap between employer/employee? And how and why after Hoffa's disappearance did union's in this country, not have the same "solidarity"/power as portrayed in the film?
My uncle was a Teamsters driver. He used to say that "Hoffa is no lamb," but he supported him because he got tangible benefits out of his membership in the union. Although Hoffa was in bed with the Mob, he was never under the Mob's thumb. He fought hard for his union, making the Teamsters the largest and wealthiest union in America in its day ,and wages/benefits greatly improved under him. He did engage in criminal activities, but so did the Justice Department--the "Get Hoffa Squad" sometimes used extralegal means to get Hoffa. On the negative side, Hoffa's notoriety hurt the Teamsters' image, and that of organized labor as a whole. The Mob grew stronger because of its ability to tap Teamsters pension funds and to put their own men in high places in the union.
Unions have been in long decline because of America's transition to a service economy, and because high tech industries were never unionized. I think the teachers unions are the biggest today, and they are losing ground to charter and private schools.
I was a Teamster, loading and unloading trucks on the freight docks in Dallas when I was an undergraduate. I didn't break legs, but I made good money. Apparently, Hoffa was corrupt, but as TB points out, he obtained some pretty good pay and benefits for working men. Unfortunately, he didn't know his limitations.
I was also a steel worker and a construction laborer both of which had unions I joined. At least in part because of unions, businesses learned to treat their employees better than they had. Will they continue to do so? If not, unions could make a comeback
DeNiro's haters must be happy that the Irishman walked away with no Golden Globes. The Atlantic believes it's because the industry is still salty toward Netflix. To add insult to injury Ricky Gervais said Pesci looked like Baby Yoda. Ricky Gervais is probably dead by now. 5 nominations still won't look too shabby on the Blu-ray case.
Anyhow, regarding the movie itself, I wonder if Bufalino actually bowled.
I've already watched The Irishman several times and will probably watch it several more times over the next few months. As has already been the case, it has generated an inventory of questions and speculations that I imagine will continue for years to come just as we ask questions and speculate about The Trilogy. So, I'll add one or two.
Why did Scorsese include the scenes of Frank disposing of his guns at the bridge and have Frank narrate about it? It would seem that once was enough if at all. In the same vein, why was there a scene with Frank deciding which gun(s) to use to murder Gallo and the scene of him disposing of them after the murder?
I thought De Niro wasnt right for the role, he was an unconvincing "hitman" and looked wooden throughout....whether this was him trying to appear physically bigger or just because hes an old guy now I dont know, but it was a poor, poor effort. Pesci and Pacino I thought were excellent though. Steven Graham as Tony Pro was alright, but possibly a slightly disappointing choice for a Scorcese movie and this role in particular.
The other annoying problem with the movie was that we are led to easily believe Sheeran hit Gallo....total bullshit, so what else is? and that hit was a big deal, although seemed rather played down in the movie...no doubt for obvious reasons. I read the book years ago and sheeran claimed about 20-30 hits I'm sure. I've still never heard or read his name anywhere outside of the book or movie. Regular contact with the bosses of other families, taking down Joe Gallo without any retaliation, Jimmy Hoffa and possibly 30 other people whilst maintaining an increasingly high profile in the teamsters union? Gimmie a break...
Casino and Goodfellas were more or less accurate portrayals of the characters, that life and those times and that's what made them classics. Yes, I know Henry Hill embelished stories but nothing as major as I reckon Sheeran did. I wasn't expecting an accurate documentary of any sorts having read the book, but something just didn't click...there were no "great" scenes that people will talk about for years after. That's why I think this film won't be up there with the other 2 and certainly shouldn't, and won't be considered as any sort of "trilogy" of great scorcese/de niro/pesci movies.
Scorsese could have made this like Goodfellas or Casino but he didn't want to. Pesci even said he was ready to play Tony Pro, and bring that Tommy D/Nicky Santoro energy to the role. Scorsese wanted to do this differently. I think the critics gave him a lot of crap for Casino being so similar to Goodfellas so he made sure that wouldn't happen again. The reviews are good. 96% on Rotten Tomatoes. The goose egg at the Golden Globes was undoubtedly a snub. Probably a shot at Netflix.
Scorsese could have made this like Goodfellas or Casino but he didn't want to. Pesci even said he was ready to play Tony Pro, and bring that Tommy D/Nicky Santoro energy to the role. Scorsese wanted to do this differently. I think the critics gave him a lot of crap for Casino being so similar to Goodfellas so he made sure that wouldn't happen again. The reviews are good. 96% on Rotten Tomatoes. The goose egg at the Golden Globes was undoubtedly a snub. Probably a shot at Netflix.
Exactly Oak. Great film that will join the pantheon of mobster classics. As you point out, the critics loved it and so did I.
I didn't realise he was trying to make it different from goodfellas and casino. In fact, the steady cam one take scene right at the start of the movie seemed to be a deliberate attempt from the outset to make it similar to both, or at least persuade the audience that's what they were going to get.
The narration from the main protagonist throughout and music score also made me think immediately of both former movies. It just all felt a bit flat and a disappointing sign off. Certainly not a classic and at best the least good of the 3 movies.
Time will tell and everyone has different opinions on it. It's difficult to imagine it being up in the top 20, 50 or possibly even 100 movies of all time though.
The conversation between Scorsese, DeNiro, Pacino and Pesci available on Netflix is a must watch. They get into the differences between this and Goodfellas. This is where Pesci says he wanted to play Tony Pro but Scorsese insisted he play a more mild mannered character this time. If Scorsese wanted a Goodfellas-Casino feel to it he would have had Pesci play a more aggressive character, and he could have done it with the de-aging technology. It's not like he has to jump out of helicopters. All he has to do is pull a trigger and cuss a lot.
When you consider the lengthy demise of Sheeran and Buffalino (there's about 45 min. of movie left after Hoffa is killed) I think this is what Scorsese wanted to do differently this time. The frailty of an aging gangster. The isolation from a disapproving family. Once the money stops rolling in their friends are gone. The ones who die young just might be the lucky ones.
When you consider the lengthy demise of Sheeran and Buffalino (there's about 45 min. of movie left after Hoffa is killed) I think this is what Scorsese wanted to do differently this time. The frailty of an aging gangster. The isolation from a disapproving family. Once the money stops rolling in their friends are gone. The ones who die young just might be the lucky ones.
Good analysis Oak. That part of a gangster's life is typically ignored. Even Michael Franzese's interviews fall short of his expressing much in the way of regrets.
The conversation between Scorsese, DeNiro, Pacino and Pesci available on Netflix is a must watch. They get into the differences between this and Goodfellas. This is where Pesci says he wanted to play Tony Pro but Scorsese insisted he play a more mild mannered character this time. If Scorsese wanted a Goodfellas-Casino feel to it he would have had Pesci play a more aggressive character, and he could have done it with the de-aging technology. It's not like he has to jump out of helicopters. All he has to do is pull a trigger and cuss a lot.
When you consider the lengthy demise of Sheeran and Buffalino (there's about 45 min. of movie left after Hoffa is killed) I think this is what Scorsese wanted to do differently this time. The frailty of an aging gangster. The isolation from a disapproving family. Once the money stops rolling in their friends are gone. The ones who die young just might be the lucky ones.
+1 That last 30 minutes was quite emotional and - the frailty of an aging gangster - describes it perfectly. My heart sank watching Pesci in those last few scenes. I also loved how Scorsese closed the movie with Sheeran asking the priest to leave the door open a little bit on his way out. All of his friends were dead and the only person he loved that was alive hated him but he still couldn't let that door get closed. Painfully beautiful.
I think of DeNiro's Johnny Boy as his second best performance, after LaMotta in"Raging Bull." Keitel was wonderful, too. "Mean Streets" has that almost-magical Scorsese talent for making scripted scenes look like they're ad-libbed. The scene in the back of Tony's bar when Charlie is haranguing Johnny Boy about paying his debts, and they're talking about the girls "Is she the one on my left, or your left" will never be surpassed.
Still my favorite after all these years. I was 14 when Mean Streets came out and honestly didn't see it in theatres (I have seen it since on multiple occasions when it runs in a revival type movie house). I guess I saw it for the first time around 1980. The 8th Street Street Playhouse had it on a double bill with Raging Bull. My aunt lived across the street. And what I loved is that, in the scene where the gay guys are getting rousted in the car, you not only see the sign for West 8th Street, you also see the old 69 cent store that was literally spitting distance from my aunt and uncle's apartment!
Please look for it upon your next viewing for me, TB. My little brother, who's 56 now lol, and I spent countless Sundays running down to that store with pockets fulls of change. So there are very personal reasons involved for me, but even without that nice personal touch, Mean Streets will ALWAYS be my favorite Scorsese film. Because it's the most raw and endearing NYC film I've ever seen next to The Sweet Smell of Success.
And, TB. When you post these little tidbits, it makes me happy that I've returned here. So if you see posting more than a casual observation in the OC threads, please kick my ass off. Because I don't wanna take another four years off😂😂.
I think of DeNiro's Johnny Boy as his second best performance, after LaMotta in"Raging Bull." Keitel was wonderful, too. "Mean Streets" has that almost-magical Scorsese talent for making scripted scenes look like they're ad-libbed. The scene in the back of Tony's bar when Charlie is haranguing Johnny Boy about paying his debts, and they're talking about the girls "Is she the one on my left, or your left" will never be surpassed.
Still my favorite after all these years. I was 14 when Mean Streets came out and honestly didn't see it in theatres (I have seen it since on multiple occasions when it runs in a revival type movie house). I guess I saw it for the first time around 1980. The 8th Street Street Playhouse had it on a double bill with Raging Bull. My aunt lived across the street. And what I loved is that, in the scene where the gay guys are getting rousted in the car, you not only see the sign for West 8th Street, you also see the old 69 cent store that was literally spitting distance from my aunt and uncle's apartment!
Please look for it upon your next viewing for me, TB. My little brother, who's 56 now lol, and I spent countless Sundays running down to that store with pockets fulls of change. So there are very personal reasons involved for me, but even without that nice personal touch, Mean Streets will ALWAYS be my favorite Scorsese film. Because it's the most raw and endearing NYC film I've ever seen next to The Sweet Smell of Success.
And, TB. When you post these little tidbits, it makes me happy that I've returned here. So if you see posting more than a casual observation in the OC threads, please kick my ass off. Because I don't wanna take another four years off😂😂.
I do 2 also miss u 2 Pizza...ur input is unsurmitible I don't know u much ..but when I 1rst came on-board,U were here all the time..then I know u had father (or should I say ..family biz 2worry about than this site)....alas...we luv your recent comeback & it makes the board all the more presentable...Hoodlum.
The goose egg at the Golden Globes was undoubtedly a snub. Probably a shot at Netflix.
Maybe, but Netflix did have the most nominations so it's not that the streaming service was completely ignored. It's just a matter of time before they gonna win.
Netflix got a lot of nominations, but only one win. With the Irishman having 5 nominations, it's hard to believe that it could walk away with no wins without it being some sort of intentional snub, especially considering what movies they lost to. A well reviewed movie (97% on RT) filled with former Academy and Golden Globe winners going 0 for 5 just doesn't happen without biased judging.
This is interesting Fergie. Indicates we're both right and wrong. Points out the similarities in production style between this and Goodfellas but where the stories and themes drastically differ, especially at the end.
I also think it was interesting and innovative that Scorsese gave lots of time to gangsters' declining years--something you don't see in other films. But,did anyone else (beside me) come to the conclusion that Sheeran had no redeeming qualities whatsoever? That scene where the priest asks him if he has any remorse for his victims and his families was appalling. So was his feeble explanation to his daughter for his behavior. Michael Corleone tried something like that near the beginning of III, when he shouts at Kay: "I protected my family from the horrors of this world." And Kay nails him: "But you became my horror."
I also think it was interesting and innovative that Scorsese gave lots of time to gangsters' declining years--something you don't see in other films. But,did anyone else (beside me) come to the conclusion that Sheeran had no redeeming qualities whatsoever? That scene where the priest asks him if he has any remorse for his victims and his families was appalling. So was his feeble explanation to his daughter for his behavior. Michael Corleone tried something like that near the beginning of III, when he shouts at Kay: "I protected my family from the horrors of this world." And Kay nails him: "But you became my horror."
I agree TB about the aftermath of the gangster life not getting enough attention. At least Michael Franzese elaborates on it in his VLAD interviews. In fact, in another post I pointed out that Michael/Frank juncture which saw them both making excuses and alone and unloved. Even as a child, Peggy's instincts were right on target regarding her father.
Scorsese has alluded more than once to not believing in redeeming qualities, although some of his characters certainly have them. Scorsese likes to explore the gray area between good and evil. Bad people who really aren't that bad. Good people who really aren't that good. Their helplessness and apathy resembles society more than society wants to believe.
I think of DeNiro's Johnny Boy as his second best performance, after LaMotta in"Raging Bull." .
Most here probably know that DeNiro auditioned to play Sonny in GF. He was still in his Johnny Boy persona when he did the audition. Here is part of it:
For best supporting actor Al Pacino and Joe Pesci both can look forward to an Oscar Nomination. Best film will probably 1917, Sam Mendes best director and Phoenix best actor.
Maniscalco was great. I’ve been looking for a GTFO gif with him as Gallo...
He has the look, the charisma and the acting chops for these kind of roles. If he was ten or twenty years older he would've been tailor-made for a significant part in The Sopranos.
Been watching it here and there the past week. Noticed two more callbacks to Marty's past films. Sorry if these were already mentioned.
The guy who tries to shoot Hoffa in the courtroom has the same body language as the kid who shoots the guy in the restroom in Mean Streets, when he's walking up to Hoffa. Hands in coat pocket walking up, same seamless facial expression, etc.
When Hoffa and Buffalino have the argument at Sheeran's formal event, just as Hoffa walks off and strands Russ there the Gold Diggers sing "The Time Is Now". Remember when Michael shoots Charlie, Johnny Boy and Theresa in Mean Streets he says, "Now's the time!" before his gunner (young Marty) opens fire.
One thing I noticed is that, in "Raging Bull," "Mean Streets," "Goodfellas" and "Casino," the pop music soundtrack uses recordings that were popular in the eras depicted in the films. But in "The Irishman," the songs are all over the place, timewise.
One thing I noticed is that, in "Raging Bull," "Mean Streets," "Goodfellas" and "Casino," the pop music soundtrack uses recordings that were popular in the eras depicted in the films. But in "The Irishman," the songs are all over the place, timewise.
True enough TB, But I loved it just the same, Johnny Ray's Cry especially although it was a decade too late (It's lyrics weren't too far off the message that Bufalino wanted Dorfman to get). Of course, In the Still of the night (again, several decades too late) was pure genius; its lryics were appropriately nostalgic.
Mean Streets actually uses a lot of early rock and roll ballads that far predate the early 70's. There's even a scene where Tony tells Michael to only play oldies on the juke. Pledging My Love (Johnny Ace), which plays when the Vietnam vet attacks the girl, predates the set era by almost 20 years.
Oli and Oak: You're right. "Mean Streets" is best at matching the songs to the mood of the scenes. For example:
--Charlie puts on the monogrammed shirt his mother gave him and looks at himself, adoringly, in the mirror. The song: "I Love You So," by the Chantels. --Charlie, Jimmy and Johnny drive to Joey Catucci's poolroom. They're out of their neighborhood, almost tentative. The song: "Florence," by the Paragons, quintessential NY doo-wop. --Tony's bar closed for party for Jerry, Vietnam returnee. Charlie's drunk, everyone's acting silly. The song: "Rubber Biscuit" by the Chips, very silly song.
That Rubber Biscuit sequence was great. They were so hammered. That's always fun to watch.
The way the fun ends that night was definitely Marty making a statement about the war. That was a time of free living on the streets, even in this tight knit, traditional neighborhood. People of all kinds were coming into that bar. A real glimpse of early 1970s NYC I'm sure. The vet flipping out was a reminder that this country was very much at war during this time. This was around the time when a lot of vets were coming back to limited opportunities. Add PTSD and other mental illnesses brought on by their tours of duty and things got ugly. Very much part of the "mean streets" at this time.
I'm an opera fan. "Raging Bull" opens with the intermezzo from "Cavalleria Rusticana" by Mascagni. One of the best-known operatic pieces ( you heard it at the end of GFIII). But then, Scorsese (clever fellow) puts in two very obscure (in America) Mascagni pieces: the barcarole from "Stephano" (color sequence after Jake gets married); and the intermezzo from "Guglielmo Ratcliffe" (when Joey has his sit-down with Tommy Como). Plus, they're performed by an equally obscure orchestra: Orchestra Municop of Bologna, conducted by Arturo Basile. Couldn't find either anywhere except for the sound track CD of "Raging Bull."
My favorite music match in "Goodfellas" is the opening of Billy Batts' party at Henry's bar--"He's Sure the Boy I Love" by the Crystals.
My favorite music match in "Goodfellas" is the opening of Billy Batts' party at Henry's bar--"He's Sure the Boy I Love" by the Crystals.
I love that as well plus Rags to Riches which opens the film with that wonderful freeze on Henry after his famous, “as far back as I can remember, I always wanted to be a gangster†line.
Sopranos used the Raging Bull theme in Blue Comet. Tony and Silvio box in slow motion to complete the Scorsese reference. In the blu-ray's commentary Arthur Nascarella (Carlo Gervasi) doesn't get the reference. Stevie Van Zandt had to explain it to him. How can any Italian from NY not get that? lol.
Interesting, Olivant. The music stops for most of the final sequence where they kill Hoffa. Rare for a Scorsese movie. Emphasizing the good times are over after the banquet. Scorsese definitely used his war chest from Netflix to experiment. I wonder that if he'd had his way he would have done Goodfellas and Casino the same way. Spreading out the end for Henry Hill and Ace Rothstein, leaving out the music and quick cutaways. Juxtaposing the emptiness with how they had everything earlier in the film, people around, music playing, etc.
finally caught it. did the irishman actually kill hoffa. i know the iceman richard k said he did it and froze the body. in the movie hoffa, hoffa is killed at the rest stop. we also saw joey gallo and angelo bruno. tony pro and fat anthony salerno also made an appearance. i also never knew hoffa had an adopted son.
finally caught it. did the irishman actually kill hoffa. i know the iceman richard k said he did it and froze the body. in the movie hoffa, hoffa is killed at the rest stop. we also saw joey gallo and angelo bruno. tony pro and fat anthony salerno also made an appearance. i also never knew hoffa had an adopted son.
There's no credible evidence that he murdered Hoffa just like there's no such evidence that he murdered Gallo. Remember, per the film, that the only reason that Frank gets involved is because Bufalino reasons that he has to involve Frank in it. Hoffa could have been lured to his death without Frank's involvement at all, so Bufalino's reasons were specious at best.
What I question is why was Salerno given such a prominent role since, at the time, he was only a capo in the Genovese family. Well, the film was based on the novel and the novel was based on Fran's recollections much of which could be fiction to begin with.
what happened to the Bobby Ciaro character danny devito played in the hoffa movie. he was not with hoffa at the time of hoffa's death. in the movie hoffa, bobby is also killed.
what happened to the Bobby Ciaro character danny devito played in the hoffa movie. he was not with hoffa at the time of hoffa's death. in the movie hoffa, bobby is also killed.
what happened to the Bobby Ciaro character danny devito played in the hoffa movie. he was not with hoffa at the time of hoffa's death. in the movie hoffa, bobby is also killed.
He was fictional.
it is true one learns something new everyday. i did not know that. one book i have on the mob mentions don frankos the greek and joey black. i believe they also mentioned killing hoffa. richard kuklinski also admitted to killing hoffa and freezing the body. they did make a movie about kuklinski with michael shannon and ray liotta.
what happened to the Bobby Ciaro character danny devito played in the hoffa movie. he was not with hoffa at the time of hoffa's death. in the movie hoffa, bobby is also killed.
He was fictional.
it is true one learns something new everyday. i did not know that. one book i have on the mob mentions don frankos the greek and joey black. i believe they also mentioned killing hoffa. richard kuklinski also admitted to killing hoffa and freezing the body. they did make a movie about kuklinski with michael shannon and ray liotta.
Kuklinski was a pathological liar and he definitely was not responsible for Hoffa, Galante, DeMeo or any other big profile hits. He was a serial killer responsible for a handful of murders but he wasn't a mob hit man, and he definitely didn't work for DeMeo or Sammy Gravano. He was observed buying weapons from the DeMeo crew but that's it - the rest is bullshit. When he was in prison he said he had killed a cop on Gravano's orders in the 80s but it was not true. He had been put up to it by Bobby Cabert, a Gambino capo who wanted to discredit Gravano so he could get his conviction overturned. He got found out when he tried to shake down Gravano's legal team to drop the allegation. He likely never even met Gravano.
Hoffa was either killed by Provenzano's people or by guys from Detroit. Not by Sheeran, definitely not by Kuklinski and not by anyone else. George Anastasia, who has written several books on the Philly mob, met with Sheeran before Charles Brandt agreed to write 'I Heard You Paint Houses'. Anastasia recalled that, by that point, Sheeran seemed confused and didn't appear to fully know what he was talking about.
I've watched "The Irishman" about 10 times now. It's an absorbing story. It has an excellent script, excellent cinematography, and those patented Scorsese Mafia-type extras. The soundtrack is in the tradition of "Mean Streets" and "Goodfellas." Pesci gives the performance of his career as Russell, Pacino is almost as over-the-top as Hoffa as he was in "Scarface" (but better), and Ray Romano and Welker White are very strong in their roles. DeNiro is good as the ageing Sheeran, but his dialog is weak (too much stuttering and phumphering) and the anti-ageing software doesn't work very well. Physically, he's an old man long before he gets old in the movie (as when he stomps on the grocer's hand and when he clambers over rocks to throw away the guns he used to kill Joe Gallo).
The weakest part of the film: It's just too long. "Goodfellas" was a very long movie, but it consisted of many short, very punchy scenes and never seemed long. Too many of the scenes in "The Irishman" go on for far too long, especially Sheeran's testimonial dinner and all the stuff that led up to Hoffa's murder, plus those useless smoking breaks.
I've watched "The Irishman" about 10 times now. It's an absorbing story. It has an excellent script, excellent cinematography, and those patented Scorsese Mafia-type extras. The soundtrack is in the tradition of "Mean Streets" and "Goodfellas." Pesci gives the performance of his career as Russell, Pacino is almost as over-the-top as Hoffa as he was in "Scarface" (but better), and Ray Romano and Welker White are very strong in their roles. DeNiro is good as the ageing Sheeran, but his dialog is weak (too much stuttering and phumphering) and the anti-ageing software doesn't work very well. Physically, he's an old man long before he gets old in the movie (as when he stomps on the grocer's hand and when he clambers over rocks to throw away the guns he used to kill Joe Gallo).
The weakest part of the film: It's just too long. "Goodfellas" was a very long movie, but it consisted of many short, very punchy scenes and never seemed long. Too many of the scenes in "The Irishman" go on for far too long, especially Sheeran's testimonial dinner and all the stuff that led up to Hoffa's murder, plus those useless smoking breaks.
what happened to the Bobby Ciaro character danny devito played in the hoffa movie. he was not with hoffa at the time of hoffa's death. in the movie hoffa, bobby is also killed.
I believe Scott Burnstein said on his podcast that Ciaro is a composite of several Hoffa cronies. He named some names, I'm sure Chuckie O 'Brien was one. The name Bobby Ciaro itself is fictional.
Mobster "D'Allesandro" (Armand Assante) had to be a composite of Tony Pro and Tony Jack.
DeVito's toughest character ever I'm sure. I liked when he shoved the FBI agent out of his office and said, "are you kidding me? These people didn't see a fucking thing".
Ciaro was banging tall models. Talking shit to mobsters. Threatening them on Jimmy Hoffa's behalf. He even tried to kick Hoffa's ass early in the movie. Pulled a knife on him.
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