Posted By: dontomasso
BUSH'S BIGGEST LIE - 02/12/06 03:46 PM
Now that there can be no dispute that George Bush has been a disingenuous president, its time for a poll on which of his lies is the most egregious.
BUSH'S BIGGEST LIE
Posted By: Don Vercetti
Re: BUSH'S BIGGEST LIE - 02/12/06 03:54 PM
The briefing did not say "Osama Bin Laden was planning to attack America by hijacking airplanes." It said that the FBI has "not been able to corroborate" such a threat.
Correct me if I'm wrong?
Correct me if I'm wrong?
Posted By: plawrence
Re: BUSH'S BIGGEST LIE - 02/12/06 04:04 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by dontomasso:
Now that there can be no dispute that George Bush is nothing more than pond scum,
Now that there can be no dispute that George Bush is nothing more than pond scum,
Quote:
Originally posted by Don Smitty:
Someday (people) will look back and realize what vision this man (Bush) had and see him for the great president that he really is.
Someday (people) will look back and realize what vision this man (Bush) had and see him for the great president that he really is.
Starting off a thread by calling Bushie "nothng more than pond scum" is not exactly what I'd call the first step on the road to intelligent discussion.
On the other hand, of course, I don't expect too many Bush Lovers to vote in your poll, either.
If I were you, though, DT, I'd get my flack jacket ready.
Anyway, that said, I'm not sure that any of the options in your poll were, strictly speaking, "lies".
He may have believed all of those things when he said them, and all of those instances may be nothing more than situations which are indicative of presidential ineptitude, which is different.
Possibly just as bad, but different than lying.
Posted By: Luciano Fanucci
Re: BUSH'S BIGGEST LIE - 02/12/06 04:05 PM
Ill tell you Bushes biggest lie: "God told me to send troops into Iraq"
Posted By: Mignon
Re: BUSH'S BIGGEST LIE - 02/12/06 04:07 PM
He who is without sin cast the first stone :p :rolleyes:
Posted By: plawrence
Re: BUSH'S BIGGEST LIE - 02/12/06 04:09 PM
Which means what?
That only those who have never sinned are allowed to criticize anyone else?
I guess that eliminates just about everyone here, huh?
That only those who have never sinned are allowed to criticize anyone else?
I guess that eliminates just about everyone here, huh?
Posted By: dontomasso
Re: BUSH'S BIGGEST LIE - 02/12/06 04:17 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by plawrence:
[Starting off a thread by calling Bushie "nothng more than pond scum" is not exactly what I'd call the first step on the road to intelligent discussion.
On the other hand, of course, I don't expect too many Bush Lovers to vote in your poll, either.
If I were you, though, DT, I'd get my flack jacket ready.
[Starting off a thread by calling Bushie "nothng more than pond scum" is not exactly what I'd call the first step on the road to intelligent discussion.
On the other hand, of course, I don't expect too many Bush Lovers to vote in your poll, either.
If I were you, though, DT, I'd get my flack jacket ready.
Yeah, I got the flak jacket on!
Posted By: Mignon
Re: BUSH'S BIGGEST LIE - 02/12/06 04:19 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by plawrence:
Which means what?
That only those who have never sinned are allowed to criticize anyone else?
I guess that eliminates just about everyone here, huh?
Which means what?
That only those who have never sinned are allowed to criticize anyone else?
I guess that eliminates just about everyone here, huh?
Posted By: plawrence
Re: BUSH'S BIGGEST LIE - 02/12/06 04:27 PM
Oh, if you were joking, my apologies. 
Posted By: plawrence
Re: BUSH'S BIGGEST LIE - 02/12/06 04:29 PM
You know, DT, your poll question is kind of like the classic "When did you stop beating your wife?"
A better question for a poll would be:
"Which is worse for our country":
o A president who knows the truth and lies to us, or
o A president who doesn't really know what is going on
Actually, I'd prefer the first. At least he's not inept.
A better question for a poll would be:
"Which is worse for our country":
o A president who knows the truth and lies to us, or
o A president who doesn't really know what is going on
Actually, I'd prefer the first. At least he's not inept.
Posted By: AppleOnYa
Re: BUSH'S BIGGEST LIE - 02/12/06 04:29 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Mignon:
[QUOTE]...Can't someone joke around???
[QUOTE]...Can't someone joke around???
Apple
Posted By: Patrick
Re: BUSH'S BIGGEST LIE - 02/12/06 04:56 PM
What about Bush lying about saying he needed court warrants to wire tap, than totally contradicting that 2 weeks ago and saying he didn't need a warrant?
Posted By: fathersson
Re: BUSH'S BIGGEST LIE - 02/12/06 05:07 PM
Another Bush Bashing Thread- :rolleyes:
Posted By: The Italian Stallionette
Re: BUSH'S BIGGEST LIE - 02/12/06 05:10 PM
Why does it have to be Bush bashing to bring up a legitimate question???? 
TIS
TIS
Posted By: fathersson
Re: BUSH'S BIGGEST LIE - 02/12/06 05:17 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by The Italian Stallionette:
Why does it have to be Bush bashing to bring up a legitimate question????
TIS
Why does it have to be Bush bashing to bring up a legitimate question????
TIS
Posted By: plawrence
Re: BUSH'S BIGGEST LIE - 02/12/06 05:24 PM
Well, he is the President of the United States, and the most visible leader of any country in the world.
As such, he's also gonna be the most heavily criticized. That just comes with the territory.
And it seems to me we have just as many threads supporting President Bush (even if they are all started by the same person
:p ) as we do bashing him.
Not to mention, if not specific threads, all the miscellaneous posts and comments bashing Bill Clinton, Hillary Clinton, and assorted other democrats and liberals.
Seems to me that the bashing is about equal on both sides of the political fence.
As such, he's also gonna be the most heavily criticized. That just comes with the territory.
And it seems to me we have just as many threads supporting President Bush (even if they are all started by the same person
:p ) as we do bashing him.Not to mention, if not specific threads, all the miscellaneous posts and comments bashing Bill Clinton, Hillary Clinton, and assorted other democrats and liberals.
Seems to me that the bashing is about equal on both sides of the political fence.
Posted By: The Italian Stallionette
Re: BUSH'S BIGGEST LIE - 02/12/06 05:24 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by fathersson:
[quote]Originally posted by The Italian Stallionette:
[b] Why does it have to be Bush bashing to bring up a legitimate question????
TIS
[quote]Originally posted by The Italian Stallionette:
[b] Why does it have to be Bush bashing to bring up a legitimate question????
TIS
TIS
Posted By: Enzo Scifo
Re: BUSH'S BIGGEST LIE - 02/12/06 05:25 PM
I voted 'Lying about WMD's in Iraq '
Posted By: Patrick
Re: BUSH'S BIGGEST LIE - 02/12/06 05:28 PM
Ditto.
Posted By: Mignon
Re: BUSH'S BIGGEST LIE - 02/12/06 05:29 PM
It's not just the president, it's anyone who holds a political office is gonna get bashed.
Posted By: Patrick
Re: BUSH'S BIGGEST LIE - 02/12/06 05:35 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Don Vercetti:
The briefing did not say "Osama Bin Laden was planning to attack America by hijacking airplanes." It said that the FBI has "not been able to corroborate" such a threat.
Correct me if I'm wrong?
The briefing did not say "Osama Bin Laden was planning to attack America by hijacking airplanes." It said that the FBI has "not been able to corroborate" such a threat.
Correct me if I'm wrong?
Posted By: Don Andrew
Re: BUSH'S BIGGEST LIE - 02/12/06 05:45 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Enzo Scifo:
I voted 'Lying about WMD's in Iraq '
I voted 'Lying about WMD's in Iraq '
No president should ever be shunned from bashing or criticism.
Posted By: Irishman12
Re: BUSH'S BIGGEST LIE - 02/12/06 05:48 PM
Iraq HAS Weapons of Mass Destruction!....oh wait they don't? My bad 
Posted By: Enzo Scifo
Re: BUSH'S BIGGEST LIE - 02/12/06 05:52 PM
It seems like everybody voted for the WMD.
Did any Republican or Bushlover/addict vote?
Did any Republican or Bushlover/addict vote?
Posted By: fathersson
Re: BUSH'S BIGGEST LIE - 02/12/06 05:58 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by The Italian Stallionette:
[quote]Originally posted by fathersson:
[b]
[quote]Originally posted by fathersson:
[b]
quote:
Originally posted by The Italian Stallionette:
Why does it have to be Bush bashing to bring up a legitimate question????
TIS
Posted By: AppleOnYa
Re: BUSH'S BIGGEST LIE - 02/12/06 05:59 PM
Sorry, but GW wasn't lying about WMD's.
He saw the same intelligence reports as did Clinton, Kerry, Kennedy, and all the other Dems who ALSO proclaimed that Iraq had them.
But of course, all that was prior to the 2000 election.
Apple
He saw the same intelligence reports as did Clinton, Kerry, Kennedy, and all the other Dems who ALSO proclaimed that Iraq had them.
But of course, all that was prior to the 2000 election.
Apple
Posted By: Sicilian Babe
Re: BUSH'S BIGGEST LIE - 02/12/06 06:20 PM
I am not a big fan of President Bush, but DT, I don't like the nature of your poll. Starting off by saying it is indisputable that he is pond scum is not exactly a good way to pose a question. And even though I have not been pleased with the past five years, even I was offended by the wording of your question.
Posted By: Mignon
Re: BUSH'S BIGGEST LIE - 02/12/06 06:20 PM
I believe with all my heart that Saddam had wmd. We just gave him to many opportunities to get rid of them.
Posted By: fathersson
Re: BUSH'S BIGGEST LIE - 02/12/06 06:26 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Mignon:
I believe with all my heart that Saddam had wmd. We just gave him to many opportunities to get rid of them.
I believe with all my heart that Saddam had wmd. We just gave him to many opportunities to get rid of them.
Posted By: The Italian Stallionette
Re: BUSH'S BIGGEST LIE - 02/12/06 06:46 PM
FS,
Just by the comment, "another Bush Bashing thread", leads me to believe we are not to discuss what I think IS a legitimate discussion for fear that it'll be negative to Bush. It is "news" and I think it is important. I always feel around here (and I'm speaking generally, not of you),that it's ok to sing praises to him, but God forbid question him.
As far as the "Congress saw the same info" line, it is great spin, (and done exceptionally well - it worked) but that's not entirely true either. I blame the ball-less Democrats for not emphasizing that.
Congress is NOT a part of the DPB (Daily Presidential briefings). A couple portions, and the entire article link.
'But Bush does not share his most sensitive intelligence, such as the President's Daily Brief, with lawmakers. Also, the National Intelligence Estimate summarizing the intelligence community's views about the threat from Iraq was given to Congress just days before the vote to authorize the use of force in that country."
The article does however, go on to say:
"The lawmakers are partly to blame for their ignorance. Congress was entitled to view the 92-page National Intelligence Estimate about Iraq before the October 2002 vote. But, as The Washington Post reported last year, no more than six senators and a handful of House members read beyond the five-page executive summary."
TIS
web page
Just by the comment, "another Bush Bashing thread", leads me to believe we are not to discuss what I think IS a legitimate discussion for fear that it'll be negative to Bush. It is "news" and I think it is important. I always feel around here (and I'm speaking generally, not of you),that it's ok to sing praises to him, but God forbid question him.
As far as the "Congress saw the same info" line, it is great spin, (and done exceptionally well - it worked) but that's not entirely true either. I blame the ball-less Democrats for not emphasizing that.
Congress is NOT a part of the DPB (Daily Presidential briefings). A couple portions, and the entire article link.
'But Bush does not share his most sensitive intelligence, such as the President's Daily Brief, with lawmakers. Also, the National Intelligence Estimate summarizing the intelligence community's views about the threat from Iraq was given to Congress just days before the vote to authorize the use of force in that country."
The article does however, go on to say:
"The lawmakers are partly to blame for their ignorance. Congress was entitled to view the 92-page National Intelligence Estimate about Iraq before the October 2002 vote. But, as The Washington Post reported last year, no more than six senators and a handful of House members read beyond the five-page executive summary."
TIS
web page
Posted By: Cancerkitty
Re: BUSH'S BIGGEST LIE - 02/12/06 06:54 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Mignon:
I believe with all my heart that Saddam had wmd. We just gave him to many opportunities to get rid of them.
I believe with all my heart that Saddam had wmd. We just gave him to many opportunities to get rid of them.
Posted By: Don Smitty
Re: BUSH'S BIGGEST LIE - 02/12/06 06:58 PM
Now if I had started a post like this I would have been called a bigot, asshole, a basher and someone who was only trying to start some sort of shit on this board . Anyway I just wanted to say goodbye to all ya. Have a good life and i'll see ya on the other side baby! I cannot take the back and forth anymore. It's like watching a f*&King talk show like Hannity and Colmes for Gods sake! Nothing ever gets done. Wow! What a world baby. Chow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 
DS
. Anyway I just wanted to say goodbye to all ya. Have a good life and i'll see ya on the other side baby! I cannot take the back and forth anymore. It's like watching a f*&King talk show like Hannity and Colmes for Gods sake! Nothing ever gets done. Wow! What a world baby. Chow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! DS
Posted By: plawrence
Re: BUSH'S BIGGEST LIE - 02/12/06 07:36 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by fathersson:
Give me a break, my point is some people are like a broken record.....Bash, whine, bash whine.... [b]Always in one direction only!
Come on folks it is getting really old. Same people, Same comments. Some of us have kept quiet long enough.[/b]
Give me a break, my point is some people are like a broken record.....Bash, whine, bash whine.... [b]Always in one direction only!
Come on folks it is getting really old. Same people, Same comments. Some of us have kept quiet long enough.[/b]
The comments I quoted above apply to people from both sides of the political fence, and, in fact, do not necessarily apply exclusively to politics.
Posted By: plawrence
Re: BUSH'S BIGGEST LIE - 02/12/06 07:39 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Don Smitty:
i'll see ya on the other side baby!
i'll see ya on the other side baby!
Posted By: The Italian Stallionette
Re: BUSH'S BIGGEST LIE - 02/12/06 07:51 PM
Is it just me, or is there something fishy about DS avator and signature????? I can't believe he'd even joke that way. 
I mean Michael Moore & "Bush Lied"??? DS, is that you?
Now if it's changed by the time I post this, I'm not seeing things really!!! :p
TIS
I mean Michael Moore & "Bush Lied"??? DS, is that you? Now if it's changed by the time I post this, I'm not seeing things really!!! :p
TIS
Posted By: Double-J
Re: BUSH'S BIGGEST LIE - 02/12/06 07:53 PM
Maybe he's making a statement (or he pressed the wrong picture on the avatar selection screen).
At least there is no debate over my 'tar.
At least there is no debate over my 'tar.
Posted By: plawrence
Re: BUSH'S BIGGEST LIE - 02/12/06 08:14 PM
Since you mention your avatar, Double-J, I have trouble reading it.
The words aren't all that clear, and they seem to fade out before I can figure out exactly what they say.
Perhaps you'd be good enough to provide us with a transcript.
The words aren't all that clear, and they seem to fade out before I can figure out exactly what they say.
Perhaps you'd be good enough to provide us with a transcript.
Posted By: DonMichaelCorleone
Re: BUSH'S BIGGEST LIE - 02/12/06 08:18 PM
Let us have faith that right makes might and in that faith let us to the end dare to do our duty as we understand it
Posted By: Double-J
Re: BUSH'S BIGGEST LIE - 02/12/06 08:21 PM
It is a quote from Mr. Lincoln's (before he was elected 
) speech at the Cooper Union in New York. It is his closing words to the crowd.
You can find a transcript here.
) speech at the Cooper Union in New York. It is his closing words to the crowd.You can find a transcript here.
Posted By: fathersson
Re: BUSH'S BIGGEST LIE - 02/12/06 08:27 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by plawrence:
[quote]Originally posted by fathersson:
[b]Give me a break, my point is some people are like a broken record.....Bash, whine, bash whine.... [b]Always in one direction only!
Come on folks it is getting really old. Same people, Same comments. Some of us have kept quiet long enough.[/b]
[quote]Originally posted by fathersson:
[b]Give me a break, my point is some people are like a broken record.....Bash, whine, bash whine.... [b]Always in one direction only!
Come on folks it is getting really old. Same people, Same comments. Some of us have kept quiet long enough.[/b]
The comments I quoted above apply to people from both sides of the political fence, and, in fact, do not necessarily apply exclusively to politics. [/b][/quote]Yes, it doesn't matter what side of the political fence.
and No, my comments where exclusive to this subject.
Posted By: plawrence
Re: BUSH'S BIGGEST LIE - 02/12/06 08:35 PM
Oh.
Well, I'm happy that you're including those of both political stripes, and I would agree with you to a great extent, but I thought your comments might also apply to areas outside of politics.
Well, I'm happy that you're including those of both political stripes, and I would agree with you to a great extent, but I thought your comments might also apply to areas outside of politics.
Posted By: plawrence
Re: BUSH'S BIGGEST LIE - 02/12/06 08:37 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Double-J:
It is a quote from Mr. Lincoln's (before he was elected ) speech at the Cooper Union in New York. It is his closing words to the crowd.
It is a quote from Mr. Lincoln's (before he was elected
) speech at the Cooper Union in New York. It is his closing words to the crowd.It's just that sometimes we seem to confuse "Right makes might" with "Might makes right".
Posted By: fathersson
Re: BUSH'S BIGGEST LIE - 02/12/06 08:38 PM
Tommorrow is another Day Pee.
Posted By: fathersson
Re: BUSH'S BIGGEST LIE - 02/12/06 08:40 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by plawrence:
[quote]Originally posted by Double-J:
[b] It is a quote from Mr. Lincoln's (before he was elected ) speech at the Cooper Union in New York. It is his closing words to the crowd.
[quote]Originally posted by Double-J:
[b] It is a quote from Mr. Lincoln's (before he was elected
) speech at the Cooper Union in New York. It is his closing words to the crowd.It's just that sometimes we seem to confuse "Right makes might" with "Might makes right". [/b][/quote]Looking for something to argue Pee?
Finding yourself in the need to get the board boiling?
Posted By: DonMichaelCorleone
Re: BUSH'S BIGGEST LIE - 02/12/06 08:40 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by plawrence:
[quote]Originally posted by Double-J:
[b] It is a quote from Mr. Lincoln's (before he was elected ) speech at the Cooper Union in New York. It is his closing words to the crowd.
[quote]Originally posted by Double-J:
[b] It is a quote from Mr. Lincoln's (before he was elected
) speech at the Cooper Union in New York. It is his closing words to the crowd.It's just that sometimes we seem to confuse "Right makes might" with "Might makes right". [/b][/quote]I didn't expect you to be a liker or respecter of President Lincoln Plaw. He did suspsend Habeas corpus.
Posted By: fathersson
Re: BUSH'S BIGGEST LIE - 02/12/06 08:43 PM
and there are many slippery slopes too.
Posted By: Double-J
Re: BUSH'S BIGGEST LIE - 02/12/06 08:45 PM
This brings me back to when we had to inform Patrick that Lincoln was most certainly not a liberal by todays standards. :p
Posted By: Patrick
Re: BUSH'S BIGGEST LIE - 02/12/06 08:55 PM
Never said he was a liberal by today's standards. I said he was a liberal when he was President.
Posted By: Double-J
Re: BUSH'S BIGGEST LIE - 02/12/06 08:56 PM
Either way, it would be incorrect.
Posted By: Patrick
Re: BUSH'S BIGGEST LIE - 02/12/06 09:02 PM
No, it'd be correct. Lincoln was a liberal.
Posted By: Double-J
Re: BUSH'S BIGGEST LIE - 02/12/06 09:03 PM
Citing what?
Posted By: Don Andrew
Re: BUSH'S BIGGEST LIE - 02/12/06 09:04 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Don Smitty:
Now if I had started a post like this I would have been called a bigot, asshole, a basher and someone who was only trying to start some sort of shit on this board . Anyway I just wanted to say goodbye to all ya. Have a good life and i'll see ya on the other side baby! I cannot take the back and forth anymore. It's like watching a f*&King talk show like Hannity and Colmes for Gods sake! Nothing ever gets done. Wow! What a world baby. Chow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
DS
Now if I had started a post like this I would have been called a bigot, asshole, a basher and someone who was only trying to start some sort of shit on this board
. Anyway I just wanted to say goodbye to all ya. Have a good life and i'll see ya on the other side baby! I cannot take the back and forth anymore. It's like watching a f*&King talk show like Hannity and Colmes for Gods sake! Nothing ever gets done. Wow! What a world baby. Chow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! DS
Posted By: Patrick
Re: BUSH'S BIGGEST LIE - 02/12/06 09:04 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Double-J:
Citing what?
Citing what?
Posted By: Double-J
Re: BUSH'S BIGGEST LIE - 02/12/06 09:05 PM
Mind sharing some of those relevant facts with us, Patrick?
Posted By: plawrence
Re: BUSH'S BIGGEST LIE - 02/12/06 09:05 PM
I don't claim to be an expert in history or civics, although when I see one of those articles about a survey in which High School and College kids don't know such simple things like the names of the three branches of our government, or how many senators each state has, or when the Civil War or World War I or II was, I have to think that I have at least as much knowledge as the next guy.
And, if I was around 140 years ago, I might very well have thought differently about the events then than the way I view them today, considering that my knowledge is based on little more than the rudimentary and biased High School and College view of American History that was presented 30-40 years ago.
But just to take Licoln's suspension of Habeas Corpus for example:
Here's the difference:
Although I differ with many of the political views of Rudy Guiliani, for some reason I instinctively trust him.
And if he were the president today, and this whole wiretapping and eavesdropping thing came out and he said that it was necessary for national security, I believe that I would trust his motives and believe him.
Of course, that's totally hypothetical, and i don't know how I would really feel if he was president, bu that's how I think I would look at it.
President Bush, on the other hand, I do not trust or believe.
I don't want to get into a whole Bush-bashing thing here yet again with specifics - I'm sure you can figure out your own examples of what I'm talking about here, anyway - but I think that the motives behind many of his actions are suspect at best and may border on criminal at worst.
And I think that some of the things he's told us may be displays of ineptitude at best, and outright lies at worst.
Now, as I say, I might've felt differently if I was around in 1865, but I have a feeling that Lincoln was a man worthy of my trust.
And, if I was around 140 years ago, I might very well have thought differently about the events then than the way I view them today, considering that my knowledge is based on little more than the rudimentary and biased High School and College view of American History that was presented 30-40 years ago.
But just to take Licoln's suspension of Habeas Corpus for example:
Here's the difference:
Although I differ with many of the political views of Rudy Guiliani, for some reason I instinctively trust him.
And if he were the president today, and this whole wiretapping and eavesdropping thing came out and he said that it was necessary for national security, I believe that I would trust his motives and believe him.
Of course, that's totally hypothetical, and i don't know how I would really feel if he was president, bu that's how I think I would look at it.
President Bush, on the other hand, I do not trust or believe.
I don't want to get into a whole Bush-bashing thing here yet again with specifics - I'm sure you can figure out your own examples of what I'm talking about here, anyway - but I think that the motives behind many of his actions are suspect at best and may border on criminal at worst.
And I think that some of the things he's told us may be displays of ineptitude at best, and outright lies at worst.
Now, as I say, I might've felt differently if I was around in 1865, but I have a feeling that Lincoln was a man worthy of my trust.
Posted By: Patrick
Re: BUSH'S BIGGEST LIE - 02/12/06 09:09 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Double-J:
Mind sharing some of those relevant facts with us, Patrick?
Mind sharing some of those relevant facts with us, Patrick?
Posted By: Double-J
Re: BUSH'S BIGGEST LIE - 02/12/06 09:10 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by plawrence:
Now, as I say, I might've felt differently if I was around in 1865, but I have a feeling that Lincoln was a man worthy of my trust.
Now, as I say, I might've felt differently if I was around in 1865, but I have a feeling that Lincoln was a man worthy of my trust.
Considering that the majority of the South was willing to secede just because Lincoln was elected, I would say Lincoln was in some ways a more polarizing (extraneous circumstances notwithstanding) President that Bush could ever hope to be.
Posted By: plawrence
Re: BUSH'S BIGGEST LIE - 02/12/06 09:11 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by fathersson:
Looking for something to argue Pee?
Finding yourself in the need to get the board boiling?
Looking for something to argue Pee?
Finding yourself in the need to get the board boiling?
But I thought I made it clear that I'm not gonna argue with the words of Mr. Lincoln.
And there's certainly enough boiling around here without my help.
I like to think that my comments are never the incendiary type that get people so crazed that they lose control.
I prefer to stick to cool logic and sound arguments, big words, proper spelling and grammar, and a heavy dose of sarcasm.
Posted By: Double-J
Re: BUSH'S BIGGEST LIE - 02/12/06 09:12 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Patrick:
[quote]Originally posted by Double-J:
[b] Mind sharing some of those relevant facts with us, Patrick?
[quote]Originally posted by Double-J:
[b] Mind sharing some of those relevant facts with us, Patrick?
Doesn't exactly sound like the "liberal" you're saying he is.
Got any more nuggets of info, Puff Daddy?
Posted By: Patrick
Re: BUSH'S BIGGEST LIE - 02/12/06 09:13 PM
Lincoln was a liberal.
Posted By: Enzo Scifo
Re: BUSH'S BIGGEST LIE - 02/12/06 09:15 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Don Smitty:
Now if I had started a post like this I would have been called a bigot, asshole, a basher and someone who was only trying to start some sort of shit on this board . Anyway I just wanted to say goodbye to all ya. Have a good life and i'll see ya on the other side baby! I cannot take the back and forth anymore. It's like watching a f*&King talk show like Hannity and Colmes for Gods sake! Nothing ever gets done. Wow! What a world baby. Chow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
DS
Now if I had started a post like this I would have been called a bigot, asshole, a basher and someone who was only trying to start some sort of shit on this board
. Anyway I just wanted to say goodbye to all ya. Have a good life and i'll see ya on the other side baby! I cannot take the back and forth anymore. It's like watching a f*&King talk show like Hannity and Colmes for Gods sake! Nothing ever gets done. Wow! What a world baby. Chow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! DS
Smitty makes like a thousand posts saying what a bunch of assholes the Clintons are. And he single handedly lobbyed for the divination of Bush.
Nobody (from the left of course) really became angry.
dontommasso calls Bush a scumbag once, and Smitty's already getting purple out of rage.
I didn't adress him personally since I quoted above his last post ever. All the best, fella!
Posted By: The Italian Stallionette
Re: BUSH'S BIGGEST LIE - 02/12/06 09:15 PM
I'm certainly not the history expert here like DJ and some others, but Patrick, if we are talking in terms of political affliation Lincoln was a Republican (or maybe it was Whig back then). Someone can correct me if I'm wrong.
TIS
TIS
Posted By: DonMichaelCorleone
Re: BUSH'S BIGGEST LIE - 02/12/06 09:16 PM
Rather than having this pissing contest can you debate with facts and sources or something, rather than the "p diddy" and "Jeff Jarrett" comments and just saying I'm right, you're wrong. He's not liberal, he is liberal etc...
It's reasons like those that so many threads go down the drain.
It's reasons like those that so many threads go down the drain.
Posted By: Patrick
Re: BUSH'S BIGGEST LIE - 02/12/06 09:18 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by DonMichaelCorleone:
Rather than having this pissing contest can you debate with facts and sources or something, rather than the "p diddy" and "Jeff Jarrett" comments and just saying I'm right, you're wrong. He's not liberal, he is liberal etc...
It's reasons like those that so many threads go down the drain.
Rather than having this pissing contest can you debate with facts and sources or something, rather than the "p diddy" and "Jeff Jarrett" comments and just saying I'm right, you're wrong. He's not liberal, he is liberal etc...
It's reasons like those that so many threads go down the drain.
Posted By: Patrick
Re: BUSH'S BIGGEST LIE - 02/12/06 09:19 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by The Italian Stallionette:
I'm certainly not the history expert here like DJ and some others, but Patrick, if we are talking in terms of political affliation Lincoln was a Republican (or maybe it was Whig back then). Someone can correct me if I'm wrong.
TIS
I'm certainly not the history expert here like DJ and some others, but Patrick, if we are talking in terms of political affliation Lincoln was a Republican (or maybe it was Whig back then). Someone can correct me if I'm wrong.
TIS
Posted By: DonMichaelCorleone
Re: BUSH'S BIGGEST LIE - 02/12/06 09:20 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by The Italian Stallionette:
I'm certainly not the history expert here like DJ and some others, but Patrick, if we are talking in terms of political affliation Lincoln was a Republican (or maybe it was Whig back then). Someone can correct me if I'm wrong.
TIS
I'm certainly not the history expert here like DJ and some others, but Patrick, if we are talking in terms of political affliation Lincoln was a Republican (or maybe it was Whig back then). Someone can correct me if I'm wrong.
TIS
Posted By: plawrence
Re: BUSH'S BIGGEST LIE - 02/12/06 09:21 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Double-J:
Depends on whether you lived in the North or the South. Some in the lower states still hold a grudge against the man.
Considering that the majority of the South was willing to secede just because Lincoln was elected, I would say Lincoln was in some ways a more polarizing (extraneous circumstances notwithstanding) President that Bush could ever hope to be.
Depends on whether you lived in the North or the South. Some in the lower states still hold a grudge against the man.
Considering that the majority of the South was willing to secede just because Lincoln was elected, I would say Lincoln was in some ways a more polarizing (extraneous circumstances notwithstanding) President that Bush could ever hope to be.
And you're probably right. Back then it was North and South, today it's Red and Blue, so it quite possibly may have depended on whether or not I was a Northerner or a Southerner.
And knowing me, I might very well have taken the position that if a bunch of states want to get together and secede from the Union, why shouldn't they have the right to do so, and if they want slavery to be legal in Georgia or South Carolina, it's a matter of states rights and the federal government should butt out.
I am in favor of less government rather than more, after all, which at one time was a cornerstone of Republicanism.
But, as I said, it's very hard to say or know for sure just how you would feel about events so long ago had you been there to experience them.
Maybe it's because of that old Henry Fonda movie with Lincoln walking five miles in the snow to repay a fifteen cent debt on time or something like that, but I just feel that the man was trustworthy.
Posted By: Mr. Baggins
Re: BUSH'S BIGGEST LIE - 02/12/06 09:27 PM
The debate on this forum is really top notch. Keep up the great work everyone!
Posted By: DonMichaelCorleone
Re: BUSH'S BIGGEST LIE - 02/12/06 09:30 PM
Plaw, the point I was trying to make about suspending habeus corpes is that at the time it was heavily debated and he did it unilaterally (although I'm not sure if it could have been suspended with congress' approval) but looking back at it now it doesn't even matter because it was the end that justified the means. The U.S.A. was saved and expanded and Lincoln is one of the greatest Presidents because of it. So 140 years from now Bush might be considered the best President because in a few years (from now) we find out that his wiretaps uncovered a plot or stopped an attack or what have you or his basis for waging war on Iraq and terrorism (I will not debate this as its been beaten to a bloody pulp already, so if anyone quotes this I will not respond) put him down as one of the greatest Presidents ever even though at the time of the events he wasn't well liked and his means were heavily debated.
Let's face it, Lincoln is the only President to have states leave the Union under him, I doubt an approval rating could get lower
Let's face it, Lincoln is the only President to have states leave the Union under him, I doubt an approval rating could get lower
Posted By: Sicilian Babe
Re: BUSH'S BIGGEST LIE - 02/12/06 09:31 PM
Pissing contest indeed!! Do you all realize how ridiculous you sound? Name-calling, temper tantrums, and so on. And DS, you have some nerve ranting on after some of the things you've said about the Clintons. And Patrick, stick to the topic, explain your point of view in an intelligent manner, and don't resort to posts that amount to, "Well, he started it!".
The world would be an awfully boring place if everyone agreed. However, there are ways to express your difference of opinion, and then there are other ways that make you sound like a jerk.
The world would be an awfully boring place if everyone agreed. However, there are ways to express your difference of opinion, and then there are other ways that make you sound like a jerk.
Posted By: Double-J
Re: BUSH'S BIGGEST LIE - 02/12/06 09:38 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by plawrence:
I believe that there was considerably more to the seccession issue than Lincoln simply being elected, wasn't there?
I believe that there was considerably more to the seccession issue than Lincoln simply being elected, wasn't there?
If you can get a copy of Secession Debated by William Freehling, I highly recommend it. Inside, you can find a transcript of Alexander H. Stephen's Unionist Speech of November 14th, 1860. Though Stephens is against it, there are a plethora or Georgian representatives and politicos (one Robert Toombs, to name one glaring example) who were willing to secede simply because Lincoln was elected!
Quote:
Originally posted by The Italian Stallionette:
I'm certainly not the history expert here like DJ and some others, but Patrick, if we are talking in terms of political affliation Lincoln was a Republican (or maybe it was Whig back then). Someone can correct me if I'm wrong.
TIS
I'm certainly not the history expert here like DJ and some others, but Patrick, if we are talking in terms of political affliation Lincoln was a Republican (or maybe it was Whig back then). Someone can correct me if I'm wrong.
TIS
However, Patrick's claims are, as I've said time and time again, unsubstatiated. He cites Lincoln freeing the slaves as evidence that he is a "liberal." However, the term implies the modern usage of 2006, and is irrelevant in the consideration of 1860's politics (at least in this manner). Lincoln himself, while disagreeing with slavery, was powerless to stop it if he wanted to preserve the Union. Only after the states had ceded did Lincoln free the slaves (and only in states he didn't control, so border states that hadn't ceded weren't included, namely: Delaware, Kentucky, Maryland, Missouri and West Virginia).
Quote:
Originally posted by DonMichaelCorleone:
Rather than having this pissing contest can you debate with facts and sources or something, rather than the "p diddy" and "Jeff Jarrett" comments and just saying I'm right, you're wrong. He's not liberal, he is liberal etc...
It's reasons like those that so many threads go down the drain.
Rather than having this pissing contest can you debate with facts and sources or something, rather than the "p diddy" and "Jeff Jarrett" comments and just saying I'm right, you're wrong. He's not liberal, he is liberal etc...
It's reasons like those that so many threads go down the drain.
Posted By: Don Andrew
Re: BUSH'S BIGGEST LIE - 02/12/06 09:48 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Patrick:
[quote]Originally posted by Double-J:
[b] Mind sharing some of those relevant facts with us, Patrick?
[quote]Originally posted by Double-J:
[b] Mind sharing some of those relevant facts with us, Patrick?
I hope you aren't saying Liberalism = Equality, Vanilla Ice.
Posted By: plawrence
Re: BUSH'S BIGGEST LIE - 02/12/06 09:52 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by DonMichaelCorleone:
140 years from now Bush might be considered the best President because in a few years (from now) we find out that his wiretaps uncovered a plot or stopped an attack or what have you or his basis for waging war on Iraq and terrorism put him down as one of the greatest Presidents ever even though at the time of the events he wasn't well liked and his means were heavily debated.
140 years from now Bush might be considered the best President because in a few years (from now) we find out that his wiretaps uncovered a plot or stopped an attack or what have you or his basis for waging war on Iraq and terrorism put him down as one of the greatest Presidents ever even though at the time of the events he wasn't well liked and his means were heavily debated.
The success or failure of the War in Iraq, and the success or failure of the "War on Terror".
If he's more or less successful at both, he will be remembered as a great president, and over time people will forget the means he used to accomplish his ends.
If he more or less fails at both, he'll be villified as probably one of the worst presidents ever.
Posted By: DonMichaelCorleone
Re: BUSH'S BIGGEST LIE - 02/12/06 09:53 PM
DA what did that add to the conversation? You guys have got to stop the pissing contests and name calling.
Well I would have liked to continue the discussion Plaw but I'm done with yet another discussion that has gone down the drain.
Well I would have liked to continue the discussion Plaw but I'm done with yet another discussion that has gone down the drain.
Posted By: Double-J
Re: BUSH'S BIGGEST LIE - 02/12/06 09:56 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by plawrence:
If he more or less fails at both, he'll be villified as probably one of the worst presidents ever.
If he more or less fails at both, he'll be villified as probably one of the worst presidents ever.
Posted By: plawrence
Re: BUSH'S BIGGEST LIE - 02/12/06 10:09 PM
It's really hard to judge those super-old timers, since what they did had so little impact on our lives today.
Harding, Coolidge, and Hoover were pretty bad among the more recent ones, weren't they?
Harding, Coolidge, and Hoover were pretty bad among the more recent ones, weren't they?
Posted By: AppleOnYa
Re: BUSH'S BIGGEST LIE - 02/12/06 10:54 PM
Hoover was ok, if you really look into his Presidency. The Depression gave him a bum rap...while FDR beat him handily in '32, it was Harry Truman who afforded Hoover the credit he deserved once becoming President in 1945.
The best story about Calvin Coolidge is that he was a man of very few words. At some White House dinner, a woman sitting next to him said she had bet her friend she could get him to say at least 3 words that night. Coolidge's reply..."You lose."
Apple
The best story about Calvin Coolidge is that he was a man of very few words. At some White House dinner, a woman sitting next to him said she had bet her friend she could get him to say at least 3 words that night. Coolidge's reply..."You lose."
Apple
Posted By: Double-J
Re: BUSH'S BIGGEST LIE - 02/12/06 11:42 PM
I'm still waiting for factual debate from Pat.
Posted By: AppleOnYa
Re: BUSH'S BIGGEST LIE - 02/13/06 01:26 AM
'LET US HAVE FAITH THAT RIGHT MAKES MIGHT...AND IN THAT FAITH LET US TO THE END DARE TO DO OUR DUTY AS WE UNDERSTAND IT.'
I don't know, pretty easy to read if you ask me...just takes a bit of patience and concentration.
Apple
I don't know, pretty easy to read if you ask me...just takes a bit of patience and concentration.
Apple
Posted By: Double-J
Re: BUSH'S BIGGEST LIE - 02/13/06 01:38 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by AppleOnYa:
just takes a bit of patience and concentration.
just takes a bit of patience and concentration.
---
BTW - still waiting for an intelligent debate rebuttal from the P-dog.
Posted By: dontomasso
Re: BUSH'S BIGGEST LIE - 02/13/06 01:23 PM
Man you Bushies sure can dish it out, but you sure cant take it.
Posted By: SC
Re: BUSH'S BIGGEST LIE - 02/13/06 01:39 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by AppleOnYa:
The best story about Calvin Coolidge is that he was a man of very few words. At some White House dinner, a woman sitting next to him said she had bet her friend she could get him to say at least 3 words that night. Coolidge's reply..."You lose."
The best story about Calvin Coolidge is that he was a man of very few words. At some White House dinner, a woman sitting next to him said she had bet her friend she could get him to say at least 3 words that night. Coolidge's reply..."You lose."
Posted By: plawrence
Re: BUSH'S BIGGEST LIE - 02/13/06 01:45 PM
My favorite LBJ quote - altho I forget who he was talking about. Bobby Baker, maybe? - was
"I'd rather have him inside the tent pissing out, than outside the tent pissing in."
"I'd rather have him inside the tent pissing out, than outside the tent pissing in."
Posted By: SC
Re: BUSH'S BIGGEST LIE - 02/13/06 01:52 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by plawrence:
My favorite LBJ quote - altho I forget who he was talking about. Bobby Baker, maybe? - was
"I'd rather have him inside the tent pissing out, than outside the tent pissing in."
My favorite LBJ quote - altho I forget who he was talking about. Bobby Baker, maybe? - was
"I'd rather have him inside the tent pissing out, than outside the tent pissing in."
Posted By: dontomasso
Re: BUSH'S BIGGEST LIE - 02/13/06 07:19 PM
Which reminds me of two Chruchill quotes.
One was when he had been drinking some lady told him that he was "drunk." "That I may be, Madam," he said, "But tomorrow I'll be sober and you'll still be ugly."
Another was some woman told him "If you were my husband I would poison you," he replied "And if I were your husband, I would drink it."
One was when he had been drinking some lady told him that he was "drunk." "That I may be, Madam," he said, "But tomorrow I'll be sober and you'll still be ugly."
Another was some woman told him "If you were my husband I would poison you," he replied "And if I were your husband, I would drink it."
Posted By: Double-J
Re: BUSH'S BIGGEST LIE - 02/13/06 09:13 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by plawrence:
My favorite LBJ quote - altho I forget who he was talking about. Bobby Baker, maybe? - was
"I'd rather have him inside the tent pissing out, than outside the tent pissing in."
My favorite LBJ quote - altho I forget who he was talking about. Bobby Baker, maybe? - was
"I'd rather have him inside the tent pissing out, than outside the tent pissing in."
---
Dontomasso - first of all, who are the Bushies, and secondly, who can't take what?
I'm just waiting for a debate rebuttle from Patrick. :p
Posted By: Don Cardi
Re: BUSH'S BIGGEST LIE - 02/13/06 09:18 PM
Two of my favorite Presidential quotes are from former President Ronald Reagan :
"You and I have a rendezvous with destiny. We will preserve for our children this, the last best hope of man on earth, or we will sentence them to take the first step into a thousand years of darkness."
"Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same."
Don Cardi
"You and I have a rendezvous with destiny. We will preserve for our children this, the last best hope of man on earth, or we will sentence them to take the first step into a thousand years of darkness."
"Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same."
Don Cardi
Posted By: Mad Johnny
Re: BUSH'S BIGGEST LIE - 02/13/06 10:37 PM
Sorry I'm catching the tail end of this, but...
Lincoln was conservative. The way he beat the crap out of the Constitution should be evidence enough. He’s the classic example of an Executive using politics to abuse his power and obtain his goals. Look at his cabinet; a bunch of men who failed to win the Presidential election. He surrounded himself with his cronies, and dodged Congress whenever he could.
Habeas Corpus? Is that the worst people can come up with? How about the rejection of the Confederate Peace Treaty? He could have saved thousands of lives, but no, the stubborn jackass destroyed the South to prove the North had the bigger wang. He let Sherman rip the South a new one. For a man who preached about Southerners being Americans, he sure beat the shit out of them.
No liberal would consciously kill his own country men. He knew, that jerk, that his election would break the nation. He shouldn’t have run and is indirectly responsible for the mass murder of 618,000 Americans.
What a pompous conservative.
But I still think he was a great President. The nation needs a jerk ever once and awhile to stir things up and fix some stuff.
Lincoln was conservative. The way he beat the crap out of the Constitution should be evidence enough. He’s the classic example of an Executive using politics to abuse his power and obtain his goals. Look at his cabinet; a bunch of men who failed to win the Presidential election. He surrounded himself with his cronies, and dodged Congress whenever he could.
Habeas Corpus? Is that the worst people can come up with? How about the rejection of the Confederate Peace Treaty? He could have saved thousands of lives, but no, the stubborn jackass destroyed the South to prove the North had the bigger wang. He let Sherman rip the South a new one. For a man who preached about Southerners being Americans, he sure beat the shit out of them.
No liberal would consciously kill his own country men. He knew, that jerk, that his election would break the nation. He shouldn’t have run and is indirectly responsible for the mass murder of 618,000 Americans.
What a pompous conservative.
But I still think he was a great President. The nation needs a jerk ever once and awhile to stir things up and fix some stuff.
Posted By: Mr. Baggins
Re: BUSH'S BIGGEST LIE - 02/13/06 10:55 PM
No wonder they call you mad johnny.
Posted By: Patrick
Re: BUSH'S BIGGEST LIE - 02/13/06 11:30 PM
And here's the first result that comes back when I do a simple search :
And please, don't send me any more PM's, DJ. I think I'm getting something from someone I like and then I open it up to find it is just you.
:Quote:
Video Implies Lincoln Would Have Supported Liberal Causes
By Marc Morano
CNSNews.com Senior Staff Writer
February 04, 2003
Washington (CNSNews.com) - A video presented at the Lincoln Memorial in Washington appears to suggest that former President Abraham Lincoln would have supported modern-day, left-of-center political causes such as homosexual rights, abortion rights and the modern feminist agenda.
One tourist from Wisconsin, who viewed the video in the memorial's Lincoln Legacy Room, called it "awful" and said the "political correctness of it is beyond words." Other visitors to the memorial told CNSNews.com they believe the video clearly implies that Lincoln would have supported left-wing political causes.
A National Park Service spokesman told CNSNews.com he was "reluctant" to comment on the Lincoln video because the whole issue had the "potential to be quite controversial."
The video features an actor who sounds like Lincoln speaking about the Civil War and slavery. He then leads into clips of Martin Luther King's 1963 March on Washington.
About halfway through the approximately eight-minute video, footage of modern-day marchers is shown over "Lincoln's" booming voice as patriotic music and songs associated with the civil rights movement play.
At this point, the video shows snippets from modern-day marches. A sign reading, "The Lord is my Shepherd and Knows I am Gay" kicks off a series of visuals featuring left-wing social causes, while "Lincoln's voice" and patriotic music blare.
The other visuals include signs reading "Gay & Lesbian Sexual Rights," "Council of Churches Lesbian Rights," "National Organization for Women" (NOW), "Reagan's Wrongs Equal Women's Rights," "ERA Yes," "Ratify the Era," "I had an illegal abortion in 1967 - Never Again," "Keep Abortion Legal," "I am pro-choice America," a Vietnam-era video clip of a woman asking: "President Nixon where are our men?" and a sign reading, "Who will Decide NARAL (National Abortion Rights & Reproductive Action League).
The video features the theme song of the civil rights movement, "We Shall Overcome," and continues with visual displays of liberal causes, including signs reading "In Opposition to King Richard [Nixon]," "U.S. out Now," "Equal Opportunity for All," "Peace," "Hell No We Won't Go," "No More Lies, Sign the Treaty Now Coalition," and marchers chanting U.S. Out Now".
The video also features an excerpt from a Martin Luther King speech and then progresses into a banner reading "Pass the Brady [Gun Control] Bill Now." Pro-life demonstrators appear in the video once, in a brief clip where they are shown clashing with abortion rights activists. No other political causes that could be considered right-of-center appear in the video.
'Beyond Words'
CNSNews.com asked several of the tourists visiting the memorial what they thought of the video and whether they believed it implied Lincoln would support modern-day causes such as homosexual rights and abortion rights.
"I liked it... I think [Lincoln] would have [supported homosexual and abortion rights] because that's how Lincoln was; he was very supportive of the people. He didn't care who you are and what you are, he loved everybody," said Elizabeth Baksi, a high school student from Houma, La., after viewing the video.
Darre Klain of Baltimore, Md., also agreed that Lincoln would have supported today's liberal political causes as implied in the video.
[Lincoln] seemed like a very progressive, forward-thinking man, ahead of his time," Klain said.
But Paul Meisius of Sheboygan, Wis., rejected the video's message as he interpreted it, and he chastised the National Park Service for showcasing it.
"That's awful," Meisius said as he finished watching the video. "The political correctness of it is beyond words. I don't think that's proper. They are giving themselves credit to be able to say whatever they want about Lincoln's political views," Meisius told CNSNews.com.
"Our national monuments are being stripped of their true heritage. They are being uprooted and taken and changed. It's an atrocity that they are rewriting history in the sense that these people have political agendas," Meisius said.
Meisius, who was visiting Washington, D.C., with his wife and five children, believes the video is an attack by revisionist historians.
"The wrongness and incorrectness of this -- this stripping of the true essential biblical aspects of our foundation - are being replaced by political correctness," he said.
Angela Brewer, a program instructor for the Close Up Foundation, a citizenship education organization, denied the Lincoln video implied the former president would have supported modern-day, left-wing social causes.
"[The Lincoln Memorial] has frequently has been used as a backdrop for groups that seem to me to be liberal. I don't know that there is a particular purpose behind [the video]," Brewer said.
Gary Perkins, who coordinates exhibits at the Sweetwater Historical Museum in Green River, Wyo., has written about the difficulty our national museums face when presenting historical materials. Perkins believes that the National Park Service may be guilty of historical overreach with the video in question.
"We do not know what Abraham Lincoln thought of gay rights. We have no clue, he never talked about it," Perkins said after hearing CNSNews.com's description of the Lincoln Memorial video.
"We can't really infer he supported gay rights," Perkins added.
'Quite Controversial'
Bill Line, a spokesman for the National Park Service's National Capital Region, told CNSNews.com that the Discovery Channel produced the video for the Lincoln Memorial.
Asked if the video intentionally makes it appear as though Lincoln would have supported homosexual rights, abortion rights and feminist causes, Line was unequivocal in his initial answer.
"I have seen the video, and I don't know how you can contrive that out of it," Line said.
However, after specific examples of "liberal causes" were pointed out to him, Line backed away from his previous comment.
"I am reluctant, quite frankly, to say much to you because I don't know the whole other premise that you are coming from or the background or the fuller context that the story is being written in, and it has potential to be quite controversial," Line explained.
Finally, Line announced he needed to see the video again before he would have any official comment.
"It's been a while since I reviewed the videotape. Before I can adequately comment and give to you something you can use in your story, I need to go and review that videotape myself," Line said.
As of press time, Line had not contacted CNSNews.com with further comment on the video.
'Left-wing gestapo'
Cultural critic David Horowitz was not surprised by the description of the video that CNSNews.com provided. Horowitz believes that left-wing political perspectives are the dominant philosophy of the curators of the U.S.'s national monuments. Horowitz, a former 1960s radical, is co-founder of the Los Angeles-based Center for the Study of the Popular Culture.
"The whole museum field has been taken over by the left wing Gestapo," Horowitz said.
"People have to wake up. This is the America hating left. It is in charge of our national monuments. It's a disgrace and testament to how the academic history profession is totally dominated by the political left," Horowitz said
By Marc Morano
CNSNews.com Senior Staff Writer
February 04, 2003
Washington (CNSNews.com) - A video presented at the Lincoln Memorial in Washington appears to suggest that former President Abraham Lincoln would have supported modern-day, left-of-center political causes such as homosexual rights, abortion rights and the modern feminist agenda.
One tourist from Wisconsin, who viewed the video in the memorial's Lincoln Legacy Room, called it "awful" and said the "political correctness of it is beyond words." Other visitors to the memorial told CNSNews.com they believe the video clearly implies that Lincoln would have supported left-wing political causes.
A National Park Service spokesman told CNSNews.com he was "reluctant" to comment on the Lincoln video because the whole issue had the "potential to be quite controversial."
The video features an actor who sounds like Lincoln speaking about the Civil War and slavery. He then leads into clips of Martin Luther King's 1963 March on Washington.
About halfway through the approximately eight-minute video, footage of modern-day marchers is shown over "Lincoln's" booming voice as patriotic music and songs associated with the civil rights movement play.
At this point, the video shows snippets from modern-day marches. A sign reading, "The Lord is my Shepherd and Knows I am Gay" kicks off a series of visuals featuring left-wing social causes, while "Lincoln's voice" and patriotic music blare.
The other visuals include signs reading "Gay & Lesbian Sexual Rights," "Council of Churches Lesbian Rights," "National Organization for Women" (NOW), "Reagan's Wrongs Equal Women's Rights," "ERA Yes," "Ratify the Era," "I had an illegal abortion in 1967 - Never Again," "Keep Abortion Legal," "I am pro-choice America," a Vietnam-era video clip of a woman asking: "President Nixon where are our men?" and a sign reading, "Who will Decide NARAL (National Abortion Rights & Reproductive Action League).
The video features the theme song of the civil rights movement, "We Shall Overcome," and continues with visual displays of liberal causes, including signs reading "In Opposition to King Richard [Nixon]," "U.S. out Now," "Equal Opportunity for All," "Peace," "Hell No We Won't Go," "No More Lies, Sign the Treaty Now Coalition," and marchers chanting U.S. Out Now".
The video also features an excerpt from a Martin Luther King speech and then progresses into a banner reading "Pass the Brady [Gun Control] Bill Now." Pro-life demonstrators appear in the video once, in a brief clip where they are shown clashing with abortion rights activists. No other political causes that could be considered right-of-center appear in the video.
'Beyond Words'
CNSNews.com asked several of the tourists visiting the memorial what they thought of the video and whether they believed it implied Lincoln would support modern-day causes such as homosexual rights and abortion rights.
"I liked it... I think [Lincoln] would have [supported homosexual and abortion rights] because that's how Lincoln was; he was very supportive of the people. He didn't care who you are and what you are, he loved everybody," said Elizabeth Baksi, a high school student from Houma, La., after viewing the video.
Darre Klain of Baltimore, Md., also agreed that Lincoln would have supported today's liberal political causes as implied in the video.
[Lincoln] seemed like a very progressive, forward-thinking man, ahead of his time," Klain said.
But Paul Meisius of Sheboygan, Wis., rejected the video's message as he interpreted it, and he chastised the National Park Service for showcasing it.
"That's awful," Meisius said as he finished watching the video. "The political correctness of it is beyond words. I don't think that's proper. They are giving themselves credit to be able to say whatever they want about Lincoln's political views," Meisius told CNSNews.com.
"Our national monuments are being stripped of their true heritage. They are being uprooted and taken and changed. It's an atrocity that they are rewriting history in the sense that these people have political agendas," Meisius said.
Meisius, who was visiting Washington, D.C., with his wife and five children, believes the video is an attack by revisionist historians.
"The wrongness and incorrectness of this -- this stripping of the true essential biblical aspects of our foundation - are being replaced by political correctness," he said.
Angela Brewer, a program instructor for the Close Up Foundation, a citizenship education organization, denied the Lincoln video implied the former president would have supported modern-day, left-wing social causes.
"[The Lincoln Memorial] has frequently has been used as a backdrop for groups that seem to me to be liberal. I don't know that there is a particular purpose behind [the video]," Brewer said.
Gary Perkins, who coordinates exhibits at the Sweetwater Historical Museum in Green River, Wyo., has written about the difficulty our national museums face when presenting historical materials. Perkins believes that the National Park Service may be guilty of historical overreach with the video in question.
"We do not know what Abraham Lincoln thought of gay rights. We have no clue, he never talked about it," Perkins said after hearing CNSNews.com's description of the Lincoln Memorial video.
"We can't really infer he supported gay rights," Perkins added.
'Quite Controversial'
Bill Line, a spokesman for the National Park Service's National Capital Region, told CNSNews.com that the Discovery Channel produced the video for the Lincoln Memorial.
Asked if the video intentionally makes it appear as though Lincoln would have supported homosexual rights, abortion rights and feminist causes, Line was unequivocal in his initial answer.
"I have seen the video, and I don't know how you can contrive that out of it," Line said.
However, after specific examples of "liberal causes" were pointed out to him, Line backed away from his previous comment.
"I am reluctant, quite frankly, to say much to you because I don't know the whole other premise that you are coming from or the background or the fuller context that the story is being written in, and it has potential to be quite controversial," Line explained.
Finally, Line announced he needed to see the video again before he would have any official comment.
"It's been a while since I reviewed the videotape. Before I can adequately comment and give to you something you can use in your story, I need to go and review that videotape myself," Line said.
As of press time, Line had not contacted CNSNews.com with further comment on the video.
'Left-wing gestapo'
Cultural critic David Horowitz was not surprised by the description of the video that CNSNews.com provided. Horowitz believes that left-wing political perspectives are the dominant philosophy of the curators of the U.S.'s national monuments. Horowitz, a former 1960s radical, is co-founder of the Los Angeles-based Center for the Study of the Popular Culture.
"The whole museum field has been taken over by the left wing Gestapo," Horowitz said.
"People have to wake up. This is the America hating left. It is in charge of our national monuments. It's a disgrace and testament to how the academic history profession is totally dominated by the political left," Horowitz said
Posted By: Mad Johnny
Re: BUSH'S BIGGEST LIE - 02/13/06 11:34 PM
Whoa... just because some propaganda video says something doesn't make it right.
People need to stop acting like revisionist historians and just look at the damn facts.
Lincoln was a conservative jerk and that's what made him great.
People need to stop acting like revisionist historians and just look at the damn facts.
Lincoln was a conservative jerk and that's what made him great.
Posted By: Double-J
Re: BUSH'S BIGGEST LIE - 02/13/06 11:41 PM
First of all - I didn't know copying and pasting was a proper rebuttle. Silly me, I assumed you might actually try to have an original thought instead of mealymouthing. Why don't you type a response, Patrick? More than one person is now waiting to hear your argument.
Secondly - Lincoln's homosexuality is not only overwhelmingly dispelled by most scholars, it is based on the work of one man who claims that because Lincoln slept in the same bed as another man, he was a flaming fairy. So obviously, those who have had to share a bed with a sibling, or a parent, are gay, by this logic.
Thirdly - There is absolutely zero fact to back up the "argument" presented by those people, that Lincoln "would've supported homosexuality" etc, even in their own video. It is one persons (warped) interpretation of Lincoln's psyche, of which we know relatively little. However, he was a religious man, and, not only that, a moral one, so it seems unlikely that he would support "homosexual and abortion rights," especially since there is no evidence (again) to back up this claim.
Fourth - I had to PM you. I didn't want you to leave us hanging here, I desperately want to know how Lincoln was a liberal in your own words and with facts to back it up.
Warmest Regards,
DJ
Secondly - Lincoln's homosexuality is not only overwhelmingly dispelled by most scholars, it is based on the work of one man who claims that because Lincoln slept in the same bed as another man, he was a flaming fairy. So obviously, those who have had to share a bed with a sibling, or a parent, are gay, by this logic.
Thirdly - There is absolutely zero fact to back up the "argument" presented by those people, that Lincoln "would've supported homosexuality" etc, even in their own video. It is one persons (warped) interpretation of Lincoln's psyche, of which we know relatively little. However, he was a religious man, and, not only that, a moral one, so it seems unlikely that he would support "homosexual and abortion rights," especially since there is no evidence (again) to back up this claim.
Fourth - I had to PM you. I didn't want you to leave us hanging here, I desperately want to know how Lincoln was a liberal in your own words and with facts to back it up.
Warmest Regards,
DJ
Posted By: Don Jasani
Re: BUSH'S BIGGEST LIE - 02/13/06 11:42 PM
Lying about Saddam's Link to 9/11
Posted By: Don Andrew
Re: BUSH'S BIGGEST LIE - 02/13/06 11:43 PM
...So just because some video says he would've, he would've?
Posted By: Double-J
Re: BUSH'S BIGGEST LIE - 02/13/06 11:44 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Don Andrew:
...So just because some video says he would've, he would've?
...So just because some video says he would've, he would've?
Posted By: Patrick
Re: BUSH'S BIGGEST LIE - 02/14/06 12:17 AM
"Flaming fairy?" :rolleyes: It is things you say, such as that, that I never take what you say seriously or care to respond to.
Posted By: Mr. Baggins
Re: BUSH'S BIGGEST LIE - 02/14/06 12:18 AM
Well Pat really showed you didn't he DJ! Lincoln was liberal because...a video said so!
Posted By: Double-J
Re: BUSH'S BIGGEST LIE - 02/14/06 12:26 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by Patrick:
"Flaming fairy?" :rolleyes: It is things you say, such as that, that I never take what you say seriously or care to respond to.
"Flaming fairy?" :rolleyes: It is things you say, such as that, that I never take what you say seriously or care to respond to.
Quote:
Well Pat really showed you didn't he DJ! Lincoln was liberal because...a video said so!
Sincerely,
Double-J
Posted By: Patrick
Re: BUSH'S BIGGEST LIE - 02/14/06 12:31 AM
Posted By: Double-J
Re: BUSH'S BIGGEST LIE - 02/14/06 12:33 AM
A smiley face is also not a proper citation, just so you know.
Best,
DJ
Best,
DJ
Posted By: Mad Johnny
Re: BUSH'S BIGGEST LIE - 02/14/06 12:38 AM
Patrick, mellow out man; take words in context. Just reply with something orginal. Stand behind what you say, have a sense of humor and the world will be a better place.
I don't buy into self esteem crap, so be an adult and don't act like somebody hurt your feelings.
And remember to relax and take it easy...
I don't buy into self esteem crap, so be an adult and don't act like somebody hurt your feelings.
And remember to relax and take it easy...
Posted By: Patrick
Re: BUSH'S BIGGEST LIE - 02/14/06 01:23 AM
-Lincoln imposed the first income tax.
-Lincoln also passed higher tariffs.
-Lincoln created the first system of national banks.
-Was accused of being an 'infidel' and often called an atheist for his views on religion. Quote: "The Bible is not my book and Christianity is not my religion. I could never give assent to the long complicated statements of Christian dogma."
-Emancipation proclamation.
-Lincoln's domestic policies included support for the Homestead Act. This act allowed poor people in the East to obtain land in the West.
-Homestead Act also made it easier for immigrants to move to America.
-During the war, $500,000,000 worth of war bonds were issued to help boost the economy.
-Believed that blacks and whites were intellectually equal.
-Endorsed full political rights for blacks.
-Supported intermarriage between the races.
-Lincoln also passed higher tariffs.
-Lincoln created the first system of national banks.
-Was accused of being an 'infidel' and often called an atheist for his views on religion. Quote: "The Bible is not my book and Christianity is not my religion. I could never give assent to the long complicated statements of Christian dogma."
-Emancipation proclamation.
-Lincoln's domestic policies included support for the Homestead Act. This act allowed poor people in the East to obtain land in the West.
-Homestead Act also made it easier for immigrants to move to America.
-During the war, $500,000,000 worth of war bonds were issued to help boost the economy.
-Believed that blacks and whites were intellectually equal.
-Endorsed full political rights for blacks.
-Supported intermarriage between the races.
Posted By: Cancerkitty
Re: BUSH'S BIGGEST LIE - 02/14/06 01:29 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by Patrick:
-Lincoln imposed the first income tax.
-Lincoln also passed higher tariffs.
-Lincoln created the first system of national banks.
-Was accused of being an 'infidel' and often called an atheist for his views on religion. Quote: "The Bible is not my book and Christianity is not my religion. I could never give assent to the long complicated statements of Christian dogma."
-Emancipation proclamation.
-Lincoln's domestic policies included support for the Homestead Act. This act allowed poor people in the East to obtain land in the West.
-Homestead Act also made it easier for immigrants to move to America.
-During the war, $500,000,000 worth of war bonds were issued to help boost the economy.
-Believed that blacks and whites were intellectually equal.
-Endorsed full political rights for blacks.
-Supported intermarriage between the races.
-Lincoln imposed the first income tax.
-Lincoln also passed higher tariffs.
-Lincoln created the first system of national banks.
-Was accused of being an 'infidel' and often called an atheist for his views on religion. Quote: "The Bible is not my book and Christianity is not my religion. I could never give assent to the long complicated statements of Christian dogma."
-Emancipation proclamation.
-Lincoln's domestic policies included support for the Homestead Act. This act allowed poor people in the East to obtain land in the West.
-Homestead Act also made it easier for immigrants to move to America.
-During the war, $500,000,000 worth of war bonds were issued to help boost the economy.
-Believed that blacks and whites were intellectually equal.
-Endorsed full political rights for blacks.
-Supported intermarriage between the races.
Your other examples are another story, they demonstrated that Lincoln was socially (as opposed to politically) liberal. I too believe he was. However, I would consider myself to be the same way, but politically I am very conservative. So if anything, would say Lincoln had Libertarian leanings.
Posted By: DonMichaelCorleone
Re: BUSH'S BIGGEST LIE - 02/14/06 01:32 AM
The emmancipation Proclamation was more of a way of punishing the South for the war. It did not end slavery, it only outlawed slavery in southern states that were rejoining the union.
Posted By: Double-J
Re: BUSH'S BIGGEST LIE - 02/14/06 03:31 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by Patrick:
-Lincoln imposed the first income tax.
-Lincoln imposed the first income tax.
This certainly isn't to say that the income tax is validation Lincoln would support liberal ideas. The Presidents who also were supportive of national taxes were:
James Madison - Sales Tax (War of 1812) - Federalist
Andrew Johnson - Tax on Tobacco/booze - Unionist/Democrat
Woodrow Wilson - 16th Amendment - Democrat
FDR - Witholding Tax on Wages - Democrat
But, also, the congresses of these Presidents didn't necessarily coincide with the politics of the CIC.
Quote:
-Lincoln created the first system of national banks.
Quote:
-Lincoln also passed higher tariffs.
Quote:
-Was accused of being an 'infidel' and often called an atheist for his views on religion. Quote: "The Bible is not my book and Christianity is not my religion. I could never give assent to the long complicated statements of Christian dogma."
And one particular quote is easily matched with another.
"That I am not a member of any Christian Church, is true; but I have never denied the truth of the Scriptures; and I have never spoken with intentional disrespect of religion in general, or any denomination of Christians in particular." - Abraham Lincoln
"The will of God prevails. In great contests each party claims to act in accordance with the will of God. Both may be, and one must be, wrong." - Abraham Lincoln
Quote:
-Emancipation proclamation.
Quote:
-Lincoln's domestic policies included support for the Homestead Act. This act allowed poor people in the East to obtain land in the West.
Quote:
-During the war, $500,000,000 worth of war bonds were issued to help boost the economy.
Quote:
-Believed that blacks and whites were intellectually equal.
Quote:
-Endorsed full political rights for blacks.
A quote or citation would help for this one, since I can't remember any in my Lincoln books regarding this particular subject.
Quote:
-Supported intermarriage between the races.
This would be another one where source would be helpful.
---
Kudos on civil debate.
Best,
DJ
Posted By: Don Vercetti
Re: BUSH'S BIGGEST LIE - 02/14/06 03:35 AM
My history is a little rusty in parts, but didn't Alexander Hamilton begin a National Bank as part of his economic system bashed by Thomas Jefferson for being unconstitutional.
Posted By: DonMichaelCorleone
Re: BUSH'S BIGGEST LIE - 02/14/06 03:39 AM
DV Alexander Hamilton Started a national Bank in 1781 I want to say, but it was only 1 bank it was not a system of banks. It was up for recharter in 1801 and Madison was against it but thats as far as I know.
Posted By: Double-J
Re: BUSH'S BIGGEST LIE - 02/14/06 03:40 AM
It was actually one of the centerpieces of the Federalist (Hamilton, Madison) versus Anti-Federalist (Jefferson) debates in the early history of the United States.
If you want more info, I highly suggest reading "The Federalist Papers," which were written by Madison, et al.
If you want more info, I highly suggest reading "The Federalist Papers," which were written by Madison, et al.
Posted By: Double-J
Re: BUSH'S BIGGEST LIE - 02/14/06 03:43 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by DonMichaelCorleone:
DV Alexander Hamilton Started a national Bank in 1781 I want to say, but it was only 1 bank it was not a system of banks. It was up for recharter in 1801 and Madison was against it but thats as far as I know.
DV Alexander Hamilton Started a national Bank in 1781 I want to say, but it was only 1 bank it was not a system of banks. It was up for recharter in 1801 and Madison was against it but thats as far as I know.
Posted By: Mad Johnny
Re: BUSH'S BIGGEST LIE - 02/14/06 03:43 AM
The Federalist Papers are by Hamilton, Madison and Jay. Give credit where its due.
And no one has refuted my version on Lincoln, which is only swelling my ego...
And no one has refuted my version on Lincoln, which is only swelling my ego...
Posted By: Don Vercetti
Re: BUSH'S BIGGEST LIE - 02/14/06 03:44 AM
Well he did say et al, Mad Johnny.
Posted By: DonMichaelCorleone
Re: BUSH'S BIGGEST LIE - 02/14/06 03:46 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by Double-J:
[quote]Originally posted by DonMichaelCorleone:
[b] DV Alexander Hamilton Started a national Bank in 1781 I want to say, but it was only 1 bank it was not a system of banks. It was up for recharter in 1801 and Madison was against it but thats as far as I know.
[quote]Originally posted by DonMichaelCorleone:
[b] DV Alexander Hamilton Started a national Bank in 1781 I want to say, but it was only 1 bank it was not a system of banks. It was up for recharter in 1801 and Madison was against it but thats as far as I know.
Posted By: Double-J
Re: BUSH'S BIGGEST LIE - 02/14/06 03:47 AM
Mmm, I corrected that, I had forgotten he had opposed the bank originally. I knew he did eventually approve a bank during his tenure, so I got my facts mixed a bit (for shame).
Posted By: Mad Johnny
Re: BUSH'S BIGGEST LIE - 02/14/06 03:47 AM
Yeah yeah, et al....
Go Publius!
Go Publius!
Posted By: DonMichaelCorleone
Re: BUSH'S BIGGEST LIE - 02/14/06 03:50 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by Double-J:
Mmm, I corrected that, I had forgotten he had opposed the bank originally. I knew he did eventually approve a bank during his tenure, so I got my facts mixed a bit (for shame).
Mmm, I corrected that, I had forgotten he had opposed the bank originally. I knew he did eventually approve a bank during his tenure, so I got my facts mixed a bit (for shame).
I have more fun listening to how many ways my Professor can say how whipped madison was by Jefferson (although not intentionally by jefferson I don't think)
Posted By: Double-J
Re: BUSH'S BIGGEST LIE - 02/14/06 03:56 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by DonMichaelCorleone:
I have more fun listening to how many ways my Professor can say how whipped madison was by Jefferson (although not intentionally by jefferson I don't think)
I have more fun listening to how many ways my Professor can say how whipped madison was by Jefferson (although not intentionally by jefferson I don't think)
Posted By: Snake
Re: BUSH'S BIGGEST LIE - 02/14/06 09:39 PM
It's extremely reassuring to me to continue to see threads like this one. Bush can't run again, yet it seems that rather than start working on something that resembles a real platform and a competent agenda (or at least come up with ideas that would at least contribute to solving the real problems in this country [whomever is responsible for them]), the Bush-haters/certain Democrats here would opt to do the same thing they've been doing for the last 6 years: blame Bush and his administration for everything from Adam & Eve to the poverty in Fantasia. (Gosh, that was a long sentence!) Heck, even bashing Cheney for a hunting accident is fair game (I don't recall Carter's rabbit attack getting this much attention...Guess the reporters must've gotten the story in time and couldn't complain, huh?) That clearly shows me what I've known for much longer than 6 years: The Dems have no real platform, competent agenda, or any real solutions. Just the same ol' "Bush blows!" diatribe. I feel really good about a Republican (or even an intelligent independent) winning in '08! Keep it up, Bush-bashers! You really give me a warm, fuzzy feeling!
Posted By: plawrence
Re: BUSH'S BIGGEST LIE - 02/14/06 10:24 PM
I'd love to respond, Snake, but to tell you the truth this is getting plain tiring.
I read your post, had some thoughts that, in writing, would at least equal the length of yours (including a very long sentence or two ) and address all of the points that you made, but I'm really starting to just get sick of this whole thing and I'm just too tired at the moment to bother.
None of them really pressed any of my buttons, they were just more of the same.
And whatever I said would just be more of the same from me.
I mean, what's the point already, anyway?
Maybe tomorrow.
I read your post, had some thoughts that, in writing, would at least equal the length of yours (including a very long sentence or two
) and address all of the points that you made, but I'm really starting to just get sick of this whole thing and I'm just too tired at the moment to bother.None of them really pressed any of my buttons, they were just more of the same.
And whatever I said would just be more of the same from me.
I mean, what's the point already, anyway?
Maybe tomorrow.
Posted By: AppleOnYa
Re: BUSH'S BIGGEST LIE - 02/15/06 01:48 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by Snake:
... The Dems have no real platform, competent agenda, or any real solutions. Just the same ol' "Bush blows!" diatribe...
... The Dems have no real platform, competent agenda, or any real solutions. Just the same ol' "Bush blows!" diatribe...
VERY well said, Snake!!
Although there is ONE thing the Dems have, that may have momentarily escaped your thoughts.
They have Howard Dean.
Apple
Posted By: Snake
Re: BUSH'S BIGGEST LIE - 02/15/06 10:49 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by plawrence:
I'd love to respond, Snake, but to tell you the truth this is getting plain tiring...I'm really starting to just get sick of this whole thing and I'm just too tired at the moment to bother.
...more of the same...
I mean, what's the point already, anyway?...
I'd love to respond, Snake, but to tell you the truth this is getting plain tiring...I'm really starting to just get sick of this whole thing and I'm just too tired at the moment to bother.
...more of the same...
I mean, what's the point already, anyway?...
But then again, that is precisely what I'm saying. Two sides, totally polarized, although I'm willing to bet even you and I could find middle ground on some things (we have on a rare occasion or two in the past). And that's again my point. You see, I couldn't care less about defending Bush (he's a big boy, as his ol' man said, and can fend for himself), but many of his ideas I do go along with. I just find it funny that all some folks can think (?) to do is holler about how "Bush sucks" but contribute little or nothing as to how everyone could find a little middle ground. Hey, believe it or not, I'm all for it. And yeah, there are issues on which I would be willing to give a little ground.There's nothing wrong with a little prez bashing once in a while (underscore once in a while). Lord knows Clinton gave me plenty of cannon fodder!
But at least I have offered some ideas of how things could've been better handled (and yes, so have you, even though I didn't necessarily agree with all of 'em, nor you with me). But certain folks who just seem to have nothing else on their minds except getting critical to the point of trivial hilarity tire me out. Not 'cause I "love Bush," but because I, too, get 'sick' and 'tired' (to borrow your terminology). I bet if I posted a poll and asked, "How Would You Run the Country?" it would simply degenrate into another opportunity to dog Bush (and I think you'd even agree with that). No new ideas, no agenda, no nothing...save, "Bush sucks!" It's kind of like watching everyone complain about prices to a ballgame, but rather than make suggestions, they had rather continue insulting the guy in the ticket booth...over and over and over. Makes a lotta' sense.
Posted By: Double-J
Re: BUSH'S BIGGEST LIE - 02/15/06 09:20 PM
Damn it, we could have a little variety by continuing the Lincoln discussion, but Snake wants to take about the SOS.
Stop hijacking my thread! :p
Stop hijacking my thread! :p
Posted By: Snake
Re: BUSH'S BIGGEST LIE - 02/16/06 07:29 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by Double-J:
Damn it, we could have a little variety by continuing the Lincoln discussion, but Snake wants to take about the SOS.
Stop hijacking my thread! :p
Damn it, we could have a little variety by continuing the Lincoln discussion, but Snake wants to take about the SOS.
Stop hijacking my thread! :p
(And thanks, Apple! Touche'!
)
Posted By: Double-J
Re: BUSH'S BIGGEST LIE - 02/16/06 02:44 PM
Nah, he was a liberal.