Religion

Well, what did you expect?
We cant have tons of Political topics and not a single one about religion.....
Its like Salt without Pepper!

Personally Im not a believer, nor do I believe theres anything after death, but how about you:

1) Do you believe in Heaven/ Hell ? What do you think happens when we die?

2) Is there a 'next world' for animals as well? say Dogs for example..

I dont follow any religion in particular even if I was raised like catholic,I tend to think in myself like an eternal seeker. I dont know if a heaven/hell exist for real, I think its here in earth, in life, our life can have both of them, I tend to belive more in karma type of philosophy, I guess we come here for learn, sometimes our lessons are more tough than others people, well not all the students are the same and I do belive our actions have consequences. About animals, I hope they have some place to go, b/c I really love my dogs and animals in general. Like I said in my previous setences, I`m an eternal seeker, Im not even sure if a god exist or not, sometimes, I want to belive and the other half I see the world is full of shit and I think why if a god exist let this happend to that poor people, I only know, I wanna know, so thats show me, I´m nothing in this huge world full of people even if sometimes we tend to think we are the masters of our existence I`m not so sure anymore.

Angie.

IMHO I think that when it comes to discussing one's religious beliefs, it is like walking a very thin line. Personally I think that this is one subject that should not be debated. Everyone has different religious beliefs and therefore someone may offend someone else by saying the wrong thing about what another's religious belief is. When people debate politics, movies, etc., for the most part they are debating an issue that they may not really take to heart. Heck, how many times during political debates do some of us get really pissed off and the debate turns into a flame war! And that's just a political belief! So imagine debating a religious belief, something that a person was brought up on and belives in with all their heart and soul? Nah, no offense Fame, but I'm not touching this one. I just have too much respect for people's persoanl religious beliefs and I do not feel that ANYONE should ever tell another what they should and should not believe in as far as thier spirtitual beliefs go! Not telling anyone else here not to post, for that is not my right, and it is your freedom to post what you want, but I am speaking for me, personally.

Don Cardi

Nobody should tell anyone what to believe or not to believe, this thread is to read different opinions about the issue above - you just say what you think about it, youre not telling others what to think.

And why should anyone fight in this forum anyway? We are all Godfather fans - we should know something about Honor and Respect, the name of the family stays clean!

And DC...offended by you?Jou kiddin me or what?
You are a GREAT man, Don Cardi, and you always mean well!

Rock On!

Your a good man Fame! You are right, there is no reason for anyone on here ever to fight. But unfortunately sometimes we all do. You and I both know that someone will say something stupid about another religion and I am afraid that all hell will break loose. So with all due respect, and in hopes of not offending you, I'm gonna abstain from this one.

Don Cardi

The only thing I will say about this subject is:

yes there is a heaven and a hell. If we have done what God has expected of us according to his word(bible) then we will go to heaven. If not then we are bound for the torment of hell.

This is just my personal beliefs. I will not shove my views down anybodys throats.

I am a Christian. I'm not any specific Protestant religion, just Christian. I believe in God, and I believe Jesus Christ is our Savior. I've read the Bible, I try to apply some of its lessons to my everyday life. But, being a Christian, I'm definitely not a Bible thumper. If someone who is un-religious is having a tough time in life, I'll recommend prayer, but I'll recommend it with the reasoning that it helps me. I try not to judge people, because in my faith, there is one judge, one jury, and He is the Lord. Who the hell am I to judge anybody. Those who don't believe, its not my concern. Those who do, its not my concern either. I don't look down on those who have no faith, who have no religion. I believe religion is one of many choices that an individual has to make on his or her own. I choose to believe.

No religion here.

Heaven and Hell don't exist.

You just rot in the ground.

Just my beliefs, don't agree? That's fine by me.

The Doc

I believe in God and that Jesus was his son.

You're gonna keep it going, huh? I see how it is.... :p

Next time, perhaps abstain from it...

Fame - Topics like this are almost destined to be closed. It's been discussed before, many times. But I see what you mean, and perhaps this will be the exception. But I doubt it....

You're gonna keep it going, huh? I see how it is.... :p

Next time, perhaps abstain from it...

[/b][/quote]If I ABstain, then I cannot jump back in if it turns into a war of words! If I SUstain, then I leave the door open for myself to get right back in! :p

Actually I thank you for pointing out my typo. That is why you are The Don!


Don Cardi

This is a topic that EVERYONE has an opinion about. There's no right or wrong answers but there will be a lot of contrasting opinions.

Me, I'm a non believer. I think our lives have as much significance as the bit of bacteria growing in my coffee mug, the ants in my garden and the endless cows slaughtered for us to eat. I don't think just because we are intelligent enough to think about the afterlife that there is one.

I like to think the whole universe is like a blood vessel to some other larger universe. Maybe a living being and our lives and universe is highly irrelevent to the whole scheme of things.

But I'm a complete idiot. What do I know.

Here,Here totally agree,The only religion i have is Football(soccer) and Music and Films

I've definelty explored all types of religion and I do believe in Heaven and Hell. Of course I also believe there is alot more to it than we will know in our lifetimes. I truly admire individuals with a strong sense of Faith and I hope I can reach the point someday where possesions and security mean less to me than non-worldly things. I consider myself to be a Christian.

Then again, like Turi said: "But I'm a complete idiot. What do I know."

Y'all probably won't believe this -- seeing as how "fleshly" I am -- but

(1) Yes. Heaven or Hell. and

(2) I think animals will definitely be a part of the New Earth (in Eternity Future). "Heaven" won't be our ultimate final home, if you believe the Bible: the New Earth will be. And there are plenty of references in the Good Book that speak of animals in the new earthly kingdom (e.g., "the lion shall lay down with the lamb," "the beast from the wild shall be led by a child," etc.). Now, on the issues of whether or not our dead pets and the like will be there, the Bible is silent.

Good topic.

I believe that Jesus Christ is our savior. I pray a lot. It gives me hope. I love going in my room and closeing the door and just talking to God. I love it! I feel at peace with myself when I'am doing it. I also pray to the Virgin Mary a lot. Jesus cannot say no to his mother so you have to pray to her for help. Just like the story about the wedding at Cana. The wedding was going good but then they ran out of wine. Jesus was not yet ready to show his powers, but Mary went to him and asked him to help. Jesus could not refuse her because he loved her so much so he turned water into wine for the guests at the wedding. Just because his mother asked him. So you have to pray to her and she will ask her son to grant your request.

DS

While we're on the topic:

1) No, I don't believe in Heaven and Hell

2) I think instead of our "souls" actually going to a location (i.e. Heaven or Hell), I think we have a feeling wash over us. We are no longer living but I think there is a sweet serenity that washes over our "souls" and bodies. I don't know how to describe it, so I won't.


P.S. Nice post, Don Smitty. Though we may not necessarily agree, you've presented your message clearly and respectably.

Before he died Albert Einstein was trying to prove that there was life after death. I wonder how do you prove something like that?

DS

I believe we are all destined to hop on a comet that will pass the earth by in about 7 years. In order to get on this comet, we will all need to lock ourselves into a compound, wear all white dressing, nike shoes, and consume poison to kill ourselves. Thats the only way we can make it onto the comet that will take us to heaven.

If you are interested in this school of thought, please post an email address and I'll tell you more

I have no beliefs one way or the other when it comes to heaven/hell. Now others do and that's fine by me, but the one thing I hate is when people try and force their religious beliefs on others.

That almost happened to me once. My cousins first husband was born again, and he started talking about religion to me. And my cousin spoke up and told her husband don't even go there. Or you'll make him(referring to me) extremely mad.

All my uncles/aunts/cousins are pretty much religious they all attend church every sunday. But one thing that I respect about them is they respect my personal views about that. Case in point awhile back after a Saturday night concert I stayed over at an uncles place. That Sunday they all got ready to attend church. My uncle came down and told me where they were going, and that they did not expect me to go with them.

Heck I refuse to attend funerals/weddings because they both involve church.

Now if anything I said offended anyone here then please accept my apologies in advance.

No apologies are necessary here, Ice! As Geoff says under this categorey, if folks don't like the topic or particular members, they can ignore them. I just wanted to respond mainly to your first statement. As I said, as carnal as I am, I'm no one to preach. But what you have to understand about Christians in particular, is that they do have a mandate to spread the Gospel. In Matthew 28:18-20, Jesus Himself made that clear.

I'm guessing your thoughts on that are probably a lot like mine: It's not the fact that people share their faith, but rather, how they share it. Far too many believers have a self-righteous, holier-than-thou approach and basically beat others over the head with the Bible. Truth be told, that's what turned me OFF from Christianity for years...that, and hypocrisy. Of course, by certain believers, I myself would be judged a hypocrite. I mean, hey, look at my avatar! And I know folks have seen how racy I can get in my posts. (There's even a poll on who's nastier, me or Part! ) But these are precisely the self-righteous type of believers to which I'm referring. What they fail to grasp is that Christ didn't come to convert "righteous" people; He came to transform sinners, and I certainly qualify! The holier-than-thou crowd neglects the grace of God in their techniques and in their lives. They forget that they, too, were just as vile and filthy in God's eyes as the worst sinner you can dream up, I don't care how "goody-goody" they were/are.

That's not to say that once converted, we're free to sin all we want. I readily confess that I'm not up-to-par on the moral level as I should be. But the difference is, the self-righteous won't admit their flaws. Jesus didn't condemn people who cursed (He hung out with Peter, who had a sailor's mouth on him!), or prostitues, or drunkards, or even homosexuals. Now, He didn't condone their behavior either. But my point is, what He did rail against and the sin that riled Him up more than any other was self-righteousness. The 4 Gospels are full of examples.

I guess what I'm saying, Ice, is that while you may not agree with what Christians believe and don't like them speaking out about their faith, try to understand that they believe they have a mandate to share it. Now, if one gets in your face and bashes you over the head with the Bible, you have my permission to kick his ass...In fact, I'd probably help you!

Nice post Snake!

Here goes what I think about the original question:
1- Yes, I believe there is Heaven and Hell.
2- There might be animals there but not necessarily our pets, but I'm not sure.

Just to give you my reasoning without getting into any specific religion, I think Heaven and Hell only means to those who have spirit and are able to make a choice, which is only human.

Have you ever seen a wolf blaming himself for slaughtering sheeps which he even didn't wanted to eat? I've not seen one with conscience which I read as spirit. Conscience always judges us inside, blames us and drives us insane when we do wrong.

There is no such a thing for animals, they go by their instincts. Scorpion stings, that's in him, there is no punishment for him doing what he does nor there is a reward if he doesn't. But we have this prophet inside and we know very well what's right and what's wrong so there is Heaven and Hell for us. It can be just inside like a spiritual punishment/serenity or some other form we still don't know and we would find out after death.

I forgot to answer the second part. Yes, I believe animals go to Heaven. More specifically I believe All Dogs Go To Heaven Animals never committed original sin, therefore their is no need for them to be baptist/christenend/etc. I figure if my dog doesn't make it in to Heaven, then I've got no shot at all.

1 There is a heaven and a hell -You go to heaven by having an active relationship with Jesus Christ -if you dont have this you are going to the other place

2 i think there are animals in heaven BUT i dont know if they ALL will


as a Christian we are to OPEN the Bible and show people JESUS and the way to HIM not CLOSE the bible and beat them on the head til they think our way !!!!

Then how did they end up on Earth?! (j/k)

Then how did they end up on Earth?! (j/k) [/b][/quote]If u believe the word of the Bible, God tells Adam that animals were put on the earth to serve men.

DS

Well, if you noticed; that was a joke. j/k=Just Kidding.

Focus, D.S., focus !

Yeah, it'll be closed because people take extremes to extremes. I'm very extreme in my atheism, but would never judge a believer in an overly biased way because of it. Others, alas, are not like this, and feel that they're opinion is fact. Wrong.

What do I believe?

That religion is a substitution for truth. To live by religion is to live in falseness, in utter falsity. Worshipping powers too intangible to be questioned, touched, felt. I appreciate it can help people through bad times, but if people can't get through bad times in an honest and truthful way, then religion is in a sense the cause of the world's endless unsocialness, unequal distribution of wealth, war, suffering, and religion also plays upon people's fears.

I can't help but laugh at people who take the Bible literally. Noah's Ark, for example: who on God's fine green heavenly Earth would have travelled to the Arctic to invite Peter the Polar Bear and his wife along to the trip? Who would have gone to the African Plains to fetch Larry the Lion and his fiancée? The Bible is fiction which contradicts itself time and time again. The reason why Christianity has two sides of the divide: Catholicism, Protestantism.

Either way, I despise religion for what it causes (war). Religion never produces. It destroys. It can often heal, but what does it heal? It's all aritificial.

But I don't know of one incident on this board or in general real life where a discussion like this has converted people to either the Dark Side or atheism.

Mick

I don't believe in any Religions

Think john Lennon put christianity best for me: "Christinity will go. It will vanish amd shrink. I needn't argue about that. I'm right and will be proved right. We're more popular than Jesus now. I don't know which will go first - rock and roll or christinity. Jesus was alright but his disciples were thick and ordinary. It's them twistingit that ruins it for me."

I pretty much agree with all of that and not because i find John Lennon a messiah but because I think it's more true than anything in the Bible.

and yes i do realise i will get abuse for this but it's my views on religion if you don't like it then tough.

You mean all those movies about Moses and Jesus are just fiction?

Funny thing, faith. Some historical writings indicate that there is a God. I was raised a Catholic. I have seen nothing to disprove my faith.....therefore - I believe, and it makes me feel good.

No apologies are necessary here, Ice! As Geoff says under this categorey, if folks don't like the topic or particular members, they can ignore them. I just wanted to respond mainly to your first statement. As I said, as carnal as I am, I'm no one to preach. But what you have to understand about Christians in particular, is that they do have a mandate to spread the Gospel. In Matthew 28:18-20, Jesus Himself made that clear.

I'm guessing your thoughts on that are probably a lot like mine: It's not the fact that people share their faith, but rather, how they share it. Far too many believers have a self-righteous, holier-than-thou approach and basically beat others over the head with the Bible. Truth be told, that's what turned me OFF from Christianity for years...that, and hypocrisy. Of course, by certain believers, I myself would be judged a hypocrite. I mean, hey, look at my avatar! And I know folks have seen how racy I can get in my posts. (There's even a poll on who's nastier, me or Part! ) But these are precisely the self-righteous type of believers to which I'm referring. What they fail to grasp is that Christ didn't come to convert "righteous" people; He came to transform sinners, and I certainly qualify! The holier-than-thou crowd neglects the grace of God in their techniques and in their lives. They forget that they, too, were just as vile and filthy in God's eyes as the worst sinner you can dream up, I don't care how "goody-goody" they were/are.

That's not to say that once converted, we're free to sin all we want. I readily confess that I'm not up-to-par on the moral level as I should be. But the difference is, the self-righteous won't admit their flaws. Jesus didn't condemn people who cursed (He hung out with Peter, who had a sailor's mouth on him!), or prostitues, or drunkards, or even homosexuals. Now, He didn't condone their behavior either. But my point is, what He did rail against and the sin that riled Him up more than any other was self-righteousness. The 4 Gospels are full of examples.

I guess what I'm saying, Ice, is that while you may not agree with what Christians believe and don't like them speaking out about their faith, try to understand that they believe they have a mandate to share it. Now, if one gets in your face and bashes you over the head with the Bible, you have my permission to kick his ass...In fact, I'd probably help you! [/b][/quote]Very well said Snake. I totaly agree with you.

So only Christians can go to heaven?

I guess I'd better go and re-pack. Looks like I'm gonna need some shorts and sandals.

So only Christians can go to heaven?

I guess I'd better go and re-pack. Looks like I'm gonna need some shorts and sandals. [/b][/quote]well honestly plaw depending on who you ask you may be going there. From a strictly biblical point of view I've heard that the only way to get into heaven was to accept Jesus Christ as your savior, and from what I know of Judiasm I believe you consider him a prophet and not your savior. So according to that thought then you would.
I've had other people who have said (which is what I believe) that as long as you live a good life, are a good person etc.. then you would go to heaven.

Thanks DM, I feel much better now.

One of my big problems with religion is that there are so many "major" ones, each with a different belief system and concept of God, the afterlife, etc., that how do you know whose is right?

Thanks DM, I feel much better now.

One of my big problems with religion is that there are so many "major" ones, each with a different belief system and concept of God, the afterlife, etc., that how do you know whose is right? [/b][/quote]I think we know which one isn't right; the one that says if you crash a plane into a building you get to live happily ever after with a bunch of virgins.

The religion that's right is the one that you follow. Key word being "follow". Some people subscribe to the ala carte religion. They pick the things in the religion that fit them. For it to work (getting to heaven), it's got to be the other way around.

Who has hijacked Plaw's account?! :p To be extremely cautious I suggest you to follow all three major religions. They have three different days of worship so it wouldn't overlap. Be a Muslim on Fridays, a Jewish on Saturdays and a Christian on Sundays. Guaranteed to be admitted to heaven!

Seriously though, all extremists of different religions believe unless you go by their religion you'd go to hell. I don't agree. Heaven and Hell is what you do and the choices you make in the way of your life.

This topic has diverted from the original question. Do you believe in afterlife and if you do, do animals have also one? It is pretty interesting if we stick to the argument.

Thanks DM, I feel much better now.

One of my big problems with religion is that there are so many "major" ones, each with a different belief system and concept of God, the afterlife, etc., that how do you know whose is right? [/b][/quote]I don't think it has to do with whos is right I think every religion has the same "core values" *except Islam extremism* none of them would say its okay to kill an INNOCENT person or steal etc. So as long as you follow your religion then you are a good person and God would accept you.


But in all reality we will never know. Any Holy Book can be picked apart and have passages that say anything from everyone goes to heaven to everyone goes to hell, humans will never really know.

There are many similarites between Christians, Jews and Muslims. They all believe in the Old Testament. They all believe in Angels. They even all believe in Saint Michael the Arch Angel. Jews and Muslims both believe that Jesus Christ was a Prophet while Christians believe that he is God. very interesting I thought.

DS

Wow, I actually have time to post more than 3 lines :p

I was raised Catholic, was forced to go to CCD every Tuesday, all that stuff. However, I never really "believed" in Jesus. A few years ago I was told that it meant I was Jewish, I looked into Judaism, and I tend to agree with a lot of it, so I'm in the process of converting. Definately not orthadox though, still gotta eat my shrimp
Heaven and Hell- It really depends. I dont necessarily believe that people are going to burn in "hell" forever or what have you. If (and a big if) there is an afterlife, the "bad" people will just cease to exist, while the rest of us have fun. Heaven, Its really had for me to discribe it. There is no way that one place can furfill(sp) everyone's vision and make everyone happy.So I would imagine that everyone's heaven would be diffrent. However, I've been somewhat doubting an afterlife lately.Another though about Heaven I've had is that its all an illusion Again hard to describe exactly what I mean by that.
As for an "animal heaven"- Absolutely not. I'm sorry but religion is purely a human concept, same as reasoning. Dogs do not sit around contemplating the mysteries of the afterlife.

Yes, there is an afterlife for animals too. They are part of the creation and since God breathed into everything his divine breath, they sort of share our immortal soul. Plus, I can't even image a perfect happiness (the one you are suppose to enjoy in Heaven) without my pets' company. I expect to find them waiting for me there when I die.