Lincoln gay?

Theres a book coming out called "The Intimacies of Abraham Lincoln". It says that Lincoln was gay and often slept with other men . What do you Americans think?

I guess in the frontier of young Lincoln's time, there were lackful of women I guess.

This was on the national news shows last week. They gave it very little time for good reason.

So what do us Americans say:

What is the big deal?

If he was, that was his business, and since he has been dead for so many years, what difference could or would it make now?

Yes, I agree!

But this probably is just another lame attempt by someone who is looking for their 15 minutes of fame to corrupt the foundations of American history. These people really need to get a life! :rolleyes: Does anyone really give a flying F**k!


Don Cardi

Who gives a rats A*s if he was or wasn't. Let the man rest in peace

Mig, DC, FS----Do you support a ban on same sex marriage>

Pat, that is NOT the issue of this topic! The issue here is that a story has come out that Abe Lincoln was possibly gay. The reponses that we have given are about how we feel regarding the story being WRITTEN about Lincoln, why it was written, etc.

Of course you can always do a "Pat's Volume ......
about the supporters of gay/same sex marriage.


Don Cardi

Pat, that is NOT the issue of this topic! The issue here is that a story has come out that Abe Lincoln was possibly gay. The reponses that we have given are about how we feel regarding the story being WRITTEN about Lincoln, why it was written, etc.
[/b][/quote]I think it is very much the same issue. You guys are saying that it's wrong to write an article accusing Lincoln of being gay, and you're saying that it doesn't matter if he was or wasn't gay. If you support a gay marriage ban, then it's a contradiction.

I believe I did one already.

How is that a contradiction? There are plenty of people who do not support gay marriage but do not care if people are homosexual.

Originally posted by Patrick:
You guys are saying that it's wrong to write an article accusing Lincoln of being gay, and you're saying that it doesn't matter if he was or wasn't gay. If you support a gay marriage ban, then it's a contradiction.

Where in the world did I say it was wrong to write an article accusing Lincoln of being gay. Please stop twisting my statements.

How is that a contradiction? There are plenty of people who do not support gay marriage but do not care if people are homosexual. [/b][/quote]I beg to differ.

Pat- Obviously you don't agree with me. :rolleyes: Care to elaborate?

How is that a contradiction? There are plenty of people who do not support gay marriage but do not care if people are homosexual. [/b][/quote]I beg to differ. [/b][/quote]There are Christians who are vehemently against homosexuality, and then there are those who could care less if you're gay or not, but disapprove of the union of two people of the same sex through wedlock. There is no "I beg to differ." If it sounds like a contradiction, it just may be, but there are people like that.

DAMN STRAIGHT DC!

Pat, that is NOT the issue of this topic! The issue here is that a story has come out that Abe Lincoln was possibly gay. The reponses that we have given are about how we feel regarding the story being WRITTEN about Lincoln, why it was written, etc.

Of course you can always do a "Pat's Volume ......
about the supporters of gay/same sex marriage.


Don Cardi [/b][/quote]YES, in another tread would be the right way of doing it. Not changing this one for your benefit.

The majority of America is against homosexuality, rather then just 2 people of the same sex getting married. -Pat

Pat- What does that have to do with my refuting your statement that
"I think it is very much the same issue. You guys are saying that it's wrong to write an article accusing Lincoln of being gay, and you're saying that it doesn't matter if he was or wasn't gay. If you support a gay marriage ban, then it's a contradiction." ???

Tell Me something! What in the world does this have to do with the Issue of a person who is writing about Abe Lincoln's sexual preferences? All that many of us said is, "who cares about what happened back then in his private life, and why bother bringing it up now!" How did this turn into a same sex marriage debate?


Don Cardi

If the majority of America is against homosexuality, but then defend Lincoln by saying, "Who cares if he's gay?" It's very much a contradiction if the person is against gay marriage or homosexuality. -Pat

Oh ok, I see! I didn't realize that the Majority Of America posts on the Gangster BB!!! Hey Geoff, your site has really grown tremendously!

Don Cardi

As I said before it is not a contradiction to feel that marriage between homosexuals is wrong and believing it is okay to be gay. Believing that gay marriage should not be legal does not mean you believe homosexuality is evil.

As I said before it is not a contradiction to feel that marriage between homosexuals is wrong and believing it is okay to be gay. Believing that gay marriage should not be legal does not mean you believe homosexuality is evil. [/b][/quote]To most people, it is.

I'm sorry but I need to comment on this.

Pat- when you are debating or just talking in general you can only speak for yourself or what you have stats to back up.

Who is MOST people? Where are your stats to back that up. On this board right now, it is only YOU who thinks that.

You can't just say MOST, or MAJORITY, - those are all words that you can't speak for without documentation to back it up.


Ok I'm done now.

Pat, you are quite the debatest tonight.

Until you can come up with some reasoning, I'm done with this conversation as well. Night ya'll!

1) Gay-braham Lincoln.

2) On Pat's misguided attempt to hijack this thread, is there anyone that has made the distinction between marriage as a purely legal union between two people and marriage as a union of adults sanctioned by a religious institution? They are two separtate issues which have become clouded in the discussion of same-sex marriage.

There is nothing special about the legal aspect of marriage. It carries certain legal obligations, particularly in the areas of dissolution and offspring. Wouldn't you say that it's much like establishing and occasionally dissolving a business or partnership.

From a purely secular point of view, why can't two people of the same sex enjoy the same legal and economic benefits of marriage that two people of the opposite sex enjoy? Answer that for me...WITHOUT making a reference to moral values, being careful to separate your legal arguments from your moral or religious arguments.

tony b.

Being married to a woman who looks like this could turn any man gay



Mary Todd Lincoln

He wasn't exactly a "looker". I think he got hit in the face by a log cabin door too often.

Well I'll try and stick to the actual point of the thread which is about a theory of Abraham Lincoln being gay. This is about history just as the controversial thoughts about Alexander the Great being bisexual.

It's an interesting piece of history and if there is any basis of truth or reason for it to be possible I don't see why it shouldn't be investigated. It's part of the mans character. Too many people just want to cover there ears, scream "lalalalala" and not hear it as if learning that he is gay will ruin peoples perceptions on him.

So far I haven't heard any real reasons for thinking he's gay though. It's stupid speculation based on bodyguards sleeping in close proximity and stuff like that. Not convinced yet, that could easily be interpreted as a security measure.

After looking at BOTH of those pictures, I may just have chosen to enroll in the monestary!!


Don Cardi

so, who is the most handsome American President, in everyone's opinion? Kennedy? Clinton? George W. Bush?

PS. My vote goes to Bill.....

Well thing is, JFK and Clinton are not handsome "handsome", they are just that compared to other Presidents.

Lavina, you mentioned the Dubya as a joke, right? LOL

As for the Gay-braham story, you know who I feel REALLY sorry for? Robert E. Lee

A man who loved his state, God, and family who's failed-nation & army was defeated by a country who's leader may or may not have been a homosexual. Really, I bet Lee is rolling in his grave

that's why it is always advisable to be in ungly faces company!

what does Dubya mean, the W? OMG, of course it was a joke! Anyway, the most handsome "potential President" is UNDOUBTLY John Edwards (yummyyyyyyyyyy!!!!!)

PL - Aside from her looks, Mary Todd Lincoln was also quite insane. Not sure which would be the larger detractor.

If Abe was gay, it does seem that it really doesn't matter at this stage. And if he wasn't, it really doesn't matter either. He was a very tortured man, yet he managed to lead this country through some very difficult times, things that we can't imagine. IMHO, that's all that really matters about him.

who's to say that Mrs. Lincoln wasn't EXACTLY what men looked for back in those days?

I do believe Marilyn Monroe would not be "hot" under today's standards but everyone in her lifetime thought she was gourgeous (I've never seen a real picture of her I just heard that being a little "chunky" was the style back then.)

I heard a commentary on the Lincoln-gay issue yesterday. Apparently some of the research was based on letters that Abe wrote telling of sleeping with men. This was a common practice for men (politicians) who traveled. Accomodations back then are not what we know today. Sharing a bed was quite common. The references in his letters made light of the arrangements.

PL - Are you sure that is Mary Todd and not Babe Ruth?

Patrick - I recommend a new theme-topic: Patrick's Illogical Observations Vol. 1,2,3 etc.

Ah yes, politics makes strange bedfellows. :rolleyes:

All joking aside, I couldn't care less what this man's sexual preference was.

I don't like it when people come out with these stories, just to create a stir. :rolleyes: How easy it is to start stories after someone is dead. True or not, why bother.

As far as good looking Presidents, I don't think any had extraordinarily handsome faces. However, many times while a person's face may not be striking, his charisma/charm make him very appealing. Such is the case with JFK/Clinton.

Sorry Pat, to turn this into the best looking President thread.


TIS

I nominate Richard M. Nixon as a handsome President j/k

I've always thought Dubya was hot. I can't really think of too many other good looking presidents besides JFK and Reagan in his younger years.

Then how come you told me that you have a picture of George W. Bush hanging over your bed?


Don Cardi

Then how come you told me that you have a picture of George W. Bush hanging


over your bed?


Don Cardi [/b][/quote] Why, bite your tongue!!!!

Actually it'd make a great dart board!!!

TIS

I saw one of the authors on a talk show the other day {there were 2 authors but 1 recently died} they asked the author on the show if he had any hard evidence on Lincoln being gay. The author really didnt. Even if he were gay, I really dont care to much.

Don Cardi

Conservatives Pick Soft Target: A Cartoon Sponge

By DAVID D. KIRKPATRICK, The New York Times

WASHINGTON (Jan. 20) - On the heels of electoral victories barring same-sex marriage, some influential conservative Christian groups are turning their attention to a new target: the cartoon character SpongeBob SquarePants.

"Does anybody here know SpongeBob?" Dr. James C. Dobson, the founder of Focus on the Family, asked the guests Tuesday night at a black-tie dinner for members of Congress and political allies to celebrate the election results.

SpongeBob needed no introduction. In addition to his popularity among children, who watch his cartoon show, he has become a well-known camp figure among adult gay men, perhaps because he holds hands with his animated sidekick Patrick and likes to watch the imaginary television show "The Adventures of Mermaid Man and Barnacle Boy."

Now, Dr. Dobson said, SpongeBob's creators had enlisted him in a "pro-homosexual video," in which he appeared alongside children's television colleagues like Barney and Jimmy Neutron, among many others. The makers of the video, he said, planned to mail it to thousands of elementary schools to promote a "tolerance pledge" that includes tolerance for differences of "sexual identity."

The video's creator, Nile Rodgers, who wrote the disco hit "We Are Family," said Mr. Dobson's objection stemmed from a misunderstanding. Mr. Rodgers said he founded the We Are Family Foundation after the Sept. 11 attacks to create a music video to teach children about multiculturalism. The video has appeared on television networks, and nothing in it or its accompanying materials refers to sexual identity. The pledge, borrowed from the Southern Poverty Law Center, is not mentioned on the video and is available only on the group's Web site.

Mr. Rodgers suggested that Dr. Dobson and the American Family Association, the conservative Christian group that first sounded the alarm, might have been confused because of an unrelated Web site belonging to another group called "We Are Family," which supports gay youth.

"The fact that some people may be upset with each other peoples' lifestyles, that is O.K.," Mr. Rodgers said. "We are just talking about respect."

Mark Barondess, the foundation's lawyer, said the critics "need medication."

On Wednesday however, Paul Batura, assistant to Mr. Dobson at Focus on the Family, said the group stood by its accusation.

"We see the video as an insidious means by which the organization is manipulating and potentially brainwashing kids," he said. "It is a classic bait and switch."

i don't care if he was homosexual or not, I just hope people don't think of him any less if he was and if they do their very narrow minded

Agree.

This topic degenerated into a debate about gay marriage. "Time Magazine" , or at least the European version makes this out to be a controversial issue in America. The other one is abortion. Which is the bigger issue there and what are your views on both?

if you do a search for gay marriage and abortion you will see everyone's views. there is no need to turn this into ANOTHER debate about those two topics.

if you do a search for gay marriage and abortion you will see everyone's views. there is no need to turn this into ANOTHER debate about those two topics. [/b][/quote]If you don't want to talk about it, then ignore the topic. :rolleyes:

Pax--Both are very much debated here in America. Conservatives who are against abortion call themselves 'pro-life.' The problem is that an embryo or fetus isn't a life. It's not a human. It cannot live on its' own. The liberal approach, which is the better approach, is pro-choice. Unlike the conservatives who are anti-choice, we believe women should be able to do what they want with their bodies.

George Bush not only wanted to ban gay marriage, but he wanted it to be put on our US Constitution. Maybe someone should've reminded him that just a few lines up, the US Constitution calls for separation of church and state. -Pat

Of course you would respond because all you want to do is start arguments.

TO YOU it is the better approach, to me it's b.s. There you go now you can argue some more.

one more thing: you claim you are "shy" yet you always look for arguments or find some way to start a controversey. That leads me to believe that you only do this on the computer.......how close am I?

Of course you would respond because all you want to do is start arguments.

TO YOU it is the better approach, to me it's b.s. There you go now you can argue some more.

one more thing: you claim you are "shy" yet you always look for arguments or find some way to start a controversey. That leads me to believe that you only do this on the computer.......how close am I? [/quote]The guy asked a freaking question and you made an unwelcomed remark. "Don't talk about that here. We've already done that. Search for it somewhere else." I answered the guy and wasn't an asshole about it. You know, for a guy who said he didn't want to debate, you sure are sounding like you are. Get a little more angry and I'll personally pay for your management classes.

That was extremely intelligent. :rolleyes: Care to explain? -Pat

I get angry because you do stupid crap like writing, "the better choice" which is obviously just made to start an argument. Unfortunately for you, you said how shy you were, and can't just walk up to someone and start talking to them, so answer my question....you only start stuff on a computer because you can't in real life. I know many people like you.


My comment to him was not meant as an "asshole remark" Gay Marriage and Abortion was not the topic at hand, I just said to search the boards since it's been discussed so many times (if that's how it came off then I apologize, wasn't meant that way)

I woke up with plans of starting an argument. I was hoping that it would elapse into a Civil War on the BB and that the board would turn communist. :rolleyes: Give me a break. The guy asked if abortion and gay marriage were really big deals in the US like they say they are. I answered him with my opinion. I bet you wouldn't be complaining if I would've put: "..but anti-choice is the right thing."

I am shy, but what does that have to do with a computer? I'm shy to people who I first meet or people I don't know. I've been a member of this board for almost 2 years, so I think I know some people on this board pretty good and can just be myself. If you don't think I start shit in real life, I welcome you to come down and spend a week with me, bud. -Pat

Forget it DMC, it was said two or three times already. Maybe it is important because he wants to know if it is alright for Lincoln to get married to President Grant?
Some people just have to have things there way. and then they wonder why everyone drifts away.