NFL will fine teams who kneel during anthem

Thanks President Trump ! The NFL announced it will start fining teams if any of their players kneel or show disrespect during national anthem. The country as a whole is sick and tired of all this meaningless nonsense. Our wonderful president sent a strong message and the NFL listened . Its a great day!

No its not. U have the right to choose to stand or not stand for the anthem. There’s no law that states u have to be a patriot or that u have to stand for the anthem. Wtf happened to freedom of speech. Government here so corrupt.

When you are on that football field as an employee of the NFL, you are not allowed to kneel. They do give the shit heads a choice of standing during the anthem like every other civilized patriot or they can stay in the locker room and i guess kneel in the shower.
Its a great rule.

Nobody gave a shit about the anthem before people started kneeling for it

Shit, the teams didn't even come out for the anthem until 2009 when the DoD paid the NFL to make them do it in an attempt to ramp up enlistment numbers.

Every football game i went to or watched on tv, everyone stood up for the anthem. Sayimg nobody gave a shit is an odd statement to make. Nobody talked about the anthem because nobody disrespected it until Kaepernick the walking identity crisis decided he needed to find a way to to make a name for himself. Lot a good that did for his career.

There was a American football game played in England. American players stood for the British anthem and took a knee for ours. England was one of the last places to do away with slavery.

They still have slavery in some African countries.

What’s Kaepernick doing these days pumping gas.

I personally could care less about the NFL. I actually hate football and the months it's played because that's all you see or hear on TV, social media, etc. So, I was quite happy with the news their numbers were going down last season because of the kneeling. However, I don't agree that forcing players to stand is the way to go. Certainly they can stay in the locker room until afterwards but I believe in freedom of speech. And don't get me wrong, I think it's disrespectful for the players to be kneeling. But I do believe they have the right to kneel.

I wonder how many times players can violate minor infractions without being suspended. If there's no limits, just on-field penalties, they only need at least one player on each team to kneel, every game. Both teams are penalized, which off-sets the penalties anyway. This would be a backfire for the league. They're trying to make the game more exciting giving offenses better field position, to generate higher scoring. If these penalties were enforced on kick offs, it would give both teams worse field position. This was such patch work decision making by the league. Lame attempt to appease advertisers, most of which whose target markets are white males. The players will find ways to protest, one way or another.

If company policy dictates that you stand for the flag during company time then you must stand because you are being paid. They knew this before being hired.
If one does not want to stand it is their right and it is the company's right to fire them.

Employers can't force anyone to do anything.

Employers are the ones that set and enforce policies. If their policy is to stand up for the flag, then that is what the employee does. If the employee does not follow the said policy then he can be fired. It is the employer that sets policy not the employee.

This whole charade could have been avoided by just enforcing policy but the fool that is in charge of the NFL catered to the demands of certain players rather than listen to their fan base. At the end the fans are the real bosses.

The employee does not have to do what the employer says. Employers aren't dictators.

There are laws which prohibit firing employees for certain things.

An employer can't tell an employee to wear a cross around their neck. They also can't prohibit someone from practicing their own religion of choice.

An employer can't fire a woman for getting pregnant.

Furthermore, some employees have more leverage than others. Skilled employees who are in demand will get away with violating company policy more than others. Famous pro athletes, who are the primary draw at pro sports events, have a ton of leverage which allows them to violate team policy and get away with it.

Freedom of speech does not apply in a work environment. That is why the NFL is in such mess they allowed it to happen.

Yes it does. Might want to research the Bill of Rights, and court decisions regarding workers' rights.

You are mixing apples with oranges and have no understanding of the law. I am talking about company policies and your mixing in civil rights.

There are civil rights that apply to the workplace. You need to research court decisions regarding this topic. Your'e simply not informed.

More fake news and spinning. Why don't you focus on the talking point which is standing up for the flag rather than avoiding the subject and talk about other matters. I notice you do that when losing a discussion. I am still waiting for the piece de resistance from you.

No, what happened here is that you made a misguided statement on a topic which you have little knowledge of.

All your statements are misguided and I will make sure to remind you of it. Your sole purpose is to deflect the truth. When did you last had a serious and mature conversation with someone other than with yourself.

I just corrected your false statements about rights in the workplace. I was serious. And, I'm always mature.

Yes, I do believe you are serious when having a mature conversation with yourself.

Oh, okay. Good one. Anything else?

Ciao bello !

@ciment

Why don't you acknowledge why players are kneeling

Nobody wants to mention police injustice

Just like nobody wants to mention unnecessary gun crimes

It's a pity they don't take a stand against stuff like battery of women, rape, and dog fighting..

They can do that on their own time not at a place of work. Furthermore with their popularity all they have to do is organize press conferences for whatever causes they want to relay to the public. It has nothing to do whether I acknowledge their causes. I may agree with some of them. The problem is that they are disrespecting the flag that so many soldiers have died to protect. If they would hold these press conferences or rallies there would be more people joining their causes. The whole thing is a farce.

Agreed

That is the best post in this thread so far. Oak, there is a difference between company time and an employee time. As long as the Company time follows the guidelines, then there is nothing illegal about it. The players are on company time when they hit the field, or do a press conference. Now when a player is approached while not on company time, and gives a statement on the street or restraunt, that many people do not like, the Company can not do anything about it, maybe bench them for a game or two, but that was the athletes personal time, and should not he punished, as that statement is the player's belief and is protected by the first amendment. I really want to see how many players are going to stay in the locker room, till it is ready for the coin toss.

It's not their responsibility to. There's a criminal justice system in place to deter these actions. Black people are not responsible for the criminal behavior of other black people. Are you responsible for the criminal behavior of other whites?

And, honestly, "soldiers die to protect the flag" is a fairy tale we should probably do away with, too. Maybe they did hundreds of years ago.

Soldiers today have no clue what they're fighting for. If you follow the money trail, however, it would appear they're fighting for oil companies.

Like Ciment, you didn't do your homework.

Courts have ruled that some constitutional rights, including parts of the first amendment, must be honored in the workplace.

I couldn't agree with you more! And gun owners are not responsible for the criminal behavior of other gun owners.

Never said they were.

It was implied with your suggestion of banning AR-15's/all guns

No, it wasn't.

It is you that does not know what you are talking about and it does not surprise me. Your still spinning more fake news.

Unlike NFL, the NBA has a rule that players must stand during playing of national anthem

The NBA's longstanding rule for team conduct states that players, coaches and trainers are to stand and line up in a dignified posture along the sidelines or on the foul line during the playing of the national anthem.

Like I said before you mix apples with oranges and don't know what you are talking about.

The NFL can end this charade by just implementing a policy requiring to stand for the flag.

Until a judge rules otherwise company policies applies.

Yes it was

@ciment

Who the fuck are you to say what people can and cannot do

Nfl players kneel because of people like yourself

The police shoot unarmed men but take mass shooters alive

@cookcounty

You are scaring me with your tough talk. I will need a safe space.

Leftist liberals like to talk tough when hiding behind a desk like a coward.

Now you want to take my first amendment rights. Maybe you should go back to school and learn how to read and be knowledgeable because that you are not.

MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN

A company can not set a policy that clashes with any law, especially constitutional law.

You think that's tough talk? He just asked you a question.

A question usually ends with a question mark. It was more of a Cookcounty meltdown.

Make America Great Again

http://www.breitbart.com/sports/201...test-outside-nfl-hq-after-kneeling-ban/?

Al Sharpton’s National Action Network Leads Protest Outside NFL HQ After Kneeling Ban.

Now that Al Sharpton is involved there will be ten more years of kneeling

Still don't see the tough talk. Is it because he used the "F" word? Have you ever worked a blue collar job? Been out drinking with a group of friends?

Pity they don't take a knee to protest unpaid child support.

Something guys like Michael Moore don't seem to understand is that the very people who've had values such as respecting the flag, and respecting their country, instilled in them at a young age are the very ones to want to serve their country; they aren't coerced into doing it, it's a career path they have chosen.

And it's rich for guys like Moore, and Springsteen, and people of their ilk, to contribute to this subject because they invent psychiatric illnesses to get out of serving their country. So pipe down.

Most soldiers I've encountered are capable of free thought and are mentally strong enough to think things through and not do something under duress.

They aren't mind-controlled robots.

I've never understood, either, people who threaten to leave the country/become a Canadian citizen etc. if someone they don't like is elected President.

How fucking childish and petty can you get?

Look at liberal media personalities, the way they portray "hicks" from the heartland of America, the very people who tend to join armed forces, and it's clear to see there is a huge disconnect there. Which makes it all the more hypocritical when they act like their empty vessels who don't know what they're fighting for; undermining everything they represent and hold dear.

If you don't like America, piss off to Nigeria or Romania or somewhere.

It's a great country. With a lot of dickheads. But there are dickheads everywhere.

Why should they? Why is someone else's unpaid child support a NFL player's responsibility?

What a fairy tale.

Since you bring up Michael Moore, watch the part of Fahrenheit 9/11 where military recruiters at a mall in a predominantly black area admit to targeting young black men for enlistment, since statistically they are the poorest demographic, and are most likely to be lured by the military's financial benefits.

This was one of many desperate recruitment tactics by Donald Rumsfeld's military. The enlistment numbers were embarrassing for a time of war, following the biggest attack on American soil in history. For all of the post 9/11, fever-pitched displays of patriotism, nobody wanted to actually go and fight in the war. Americans wanted a war, but didn't want themselves or their children to die in it.

On Rumsfeld's watch, the military was so desperate to bring up enlistment numbers they also laxed standards such as rules forbidding convicted felons from enlisting. Reports of gang activity on military bases began to surface. Gang activity...on military bases. Let it sink in.

I think FUBAR is the term we're looking for.



You want to talk about rich people using deferments to get out of war?

What was your buddy Donald Trump doing during the Vietnam war?

How about Dick Cheney? How many deferments did he have?

George W. Bush had his daddy get him a cozy assignment that never required him to leave the country.

That Sharpton fuck still alive? Someone should put a ticket on his fuckin' head.

He has been really quiet since our NY President took over....wonder why?

Maybe since he owes him?
Yes.

Get that Money

He's the 1 who basically started the riots in '93...fuckin' jitbag

Al Sharpton figured he can make some money by extorting the NFL, he couldn't careless about anything but himself.

Somehow I can't picture you and your friend associating with blue collar workers & drinking beer. I see you more like a Starbucks cafe latte type of guy still living with your mother.
The blue collar workers that I know all love Trump. They are the ones that put him into power.

Says the guy who's shaken up by someone using the F word. Tough talk. lol. Good grief.

You leftists are so brave & tough..........make sure you drink your cafe latte before going to bed.

lol. Now you think I'm being tough with you? Man, your own shadow must make you flinch.

Are you having a Meltdown ? ........

Don't worry they will soon be playing the Russian anthem at NFL games. You and your friends will soon be able to stand for the flag.

lol. Always editing your attempted burns. Not sure of yourself.

Interesting I find that the older guys are more than likely Trump supporters and I notice the younger guys are more liberal.

Maybe that is just the case in Upstate NY

I guess it varies from state to state but the last election proved that blue collar workers are leaning to Trump. He speaks their language and his economic plan has created millions of jobs and there is more to come.

And OakAsFan's "but what about coal jobs" in 3......2.......1......

I find that most white people, of all ages, are Trump supporters, while most non-whites are not.

Maybe that is just the case in California.

Of all the Trump lies, this, of course, is the biggest.

@ciment

Trump doesn't give a fuck about blue collar workers

He just knows to say make america great again



@hoodlum

The LA police are the reason for the riots in 1993

If u want al sharpton dead then u should do it yourself

Nice 2 c u posting again dudeabides..r u still testing recipes & trying newfangled foods etc..?

Trumps approval rating with blacks has doubled in the last month. But stay in fantasy land

Then how did he win Michigan and Pennsylvania and other blue collar states ?

You are still in denial. Trump won the election and he is your president too Oaks......

[quote=cookcounty]@ciment

Trump doesn't give a fuck about blue collar workers

He just knows to say make america great again /quote]



Trump is your president and he loves you too......

Went from .003% to .006%?

Trump's approval rating among black voters will drop 50% as soon as Kanye goes back on his meds.

So what you are saying that Kanye is not allowed to have diverse opinions. I thought the Democrat party was the party for all background.
Have you been lying to the people all these years ?

Is it because Kanye does not play the victim card like the NFL millionaire players ? Too many people in today's society make fake claims of being victimized.
This has an opposing effect on the ones that really are victimized. You call wolf too many times people will stop believing you.
Candace Owen a bright young black women, that is supported by Kanye and by black conservatives, is exposing this causing a media meltdown.

@nickeyes

Black people dont support trump....lol

@ciment

U didn't give a fuck about kanye before he made his statement

Candace owens is full of shit and u don't like her either

Nfl players kneel because of police brutality...thee end

As opposed to the Republican party, which is primarily for white males?

I had to google Candace Owens. I see some pro Trump interest group appointed her as "director of urban engagement". lol. I wonder what that means.

@oaksfan

Candace owens is a republican that claims to be pro-black

She basically says racist shit against blacks and then at the end of her statement throw in something positive about black people to keep up her charade

A rapper made mention of her views, all of her followers started calling him racial slurs and candace owens didn't speak up against the racist comments from her followers

So its impossible for her to care about being black if she let her followers spew racial slurs against her race and not comment about it

Yeah, I read a little about her. Looks like she was a card carrying lib then suddenly switched up for no apparent reason. I'm guessing she's on someone's payroll.

"director of urban engagement"....my goodness. I think Trump's going to create a cabinet position with this name and appoint Kanye.

Who the fuck are you to say what people can and cannot do ?


Remember you said that cookscounty then who the fuck are you trashing a black women with conservative view point .

U didn't give a fuck about Candace Owens before I mentioned her.


Why do you trash black people ?

http://www.breitbart.com/sports/201...tm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook

Peter King Makes Nazi Reference While Blasting Jets Owner for Anthem Stand

What the fuck ! I say it again why are you trashing a black women with opposing views. What the fuck did she do to you for fuck sake.

The NFL teams should be fined and players should be suspended without pay and get a separate fine. There should be a 3 strikes and you’re out rule imposed, i think we would all agree with that.

A lot higher than that, get out of your bubble in California.
I'll take stats over what you say, Cook.

http://www.breitbart.com/sports/2018/05/25/poll-fans-overwhelmingly-back-n-f-l-anthem-policy/

Poll: Fans Overwhelmingly Back NFL Anthem Policy

http://www.breitbart.com/sports/201...tting-out-if-kaepernick-reid-not-signed/

Report: ‘Star’ Players Consider Sitting Out if Kaepernick and Reid Not Signed

http://www.breitbart.com/video/2018/05/28/eric-dickerson-i-would-still-stand/

Eric Dickerson: ‘I Would Still Stand’ for National Anthem.
NFL Hall of Famer Eric Dickerson said in an interview with TMZ Sports despite the new league policy requiring players to stand for the National Anthem or remain in the locker room as a form of protest, he would still stand.

Always trying new recipes haha. Been trying my hand at Cuban style pork roast with sour orange marinade though I haven't gotten it how I like it luckily I love cooking so I don't mind

Hope all is well with you

Well, she's not really black...

Candace Owens (born April 29, 1990) is an American conservative commentator, and activist Born to an African American family and raised in Stamford, Connecticut.

Do you think that is fucken funny. Now your making fun of African American

Candace Owens (born April 29, 1990) is an American conservative commentator, and activist Born to an African American family and raised in Stamford, Connecticut.

Do you think that is fucken funny ? Now your ridiculing African Americans skin color.

I'm not ridiculing a black person. I'm ridiculing Candace Owens. I'm sure she'd take this as a compliment.

You have just exposed yourself for the person you really are.

I am finally glad that it came out in the open for all to see.

Cool, man.

http://insider.foxnews.com/2018/05/...hem-protesters-cowards-go-locker-room-or

Diamond & Silk: NFL Anthem Protesters Should Kneel in Locker Room or 'the Unemployment Line

If it wasnt for the NFL, they would all be on the unemployment line. They are lucky our brave men and woman of our military gave them the opportunity to get paid millions to play with a ball.

Alright, now who are Diamond and Silk?

Are they strippers for Trump?

@rightpride

The flag is laid on the ground before every nfl game

Laying the flag on the ground is more disrespectful than kneeling during the national anthem. Flags aren't supposed to lay on the ground

Fans should be upset that the flag is thrown onto some grass


@oaksfan

Diamond and silk are the "hood" versions of candace Owens

They sound like total fucking maniacs if u ask me

Alright, googled them. I've seen them before.

They're a cheap knock off of Diamonds and Pearls. RIP Prince.

Is it me or is it really condescending the way liberals and democrats here just expect black people to automatically think the way they do? And if they don't, it's inferred that they're Uncle Toms or subversives.

Plenty of black people voted for Trump, they just kept it to themselves rather than have to explain their belief system to people who refuse to see another way.

The same way plenty of people voted against repealing the 8th amendment in Ireland recently, but they would never have the balls to admit it or post about it on Facebook.

The hive mind is very strong in contemporary society.

I think we know all of them. Ciment posted their youtube pages.

I bet your father spit on troops returning home from Vietnam.

You're as bad of a gambler as you are a pollster on black voters.

My father's a Vietnam veteran.

You think no black people voted for Trump?

If no minorities voted for Trump, he wouldn't be President.

There are actually Latino Americans who want a wall to be built, whether metaphorical or physical.

Hell, I'm of Irish extraction and I think illegal Irish should be kicked out.

Not everything is black and white, excuse the pun.

If we want to play this game, we could say Obama served two terms purely because he had the ethnic vote just because of his skin color, as opposed to his weak policies.

Trump sends you his love.


Make America Great Again

Trump sends you his love.


Make America Great Again

If that's true about Obama, the Dems should run a minority every four years.

You may be racist.

@oakasfan

Candace Owens is a black person and you in a earlier statement , mentioned she is not really black. The following statement, up above, is even more outrages. In my opinion that is a racist statement to make.

Candace Owens would take it as a compliment. Doesn't she want to be white?

@moetilden

Black people don't like trump and that'll never change

Black people who voted for trump shouldn't tell anybody because there's a good chance that you would be physically assaulted

The tolerant left, right?

Who coined this term "tolerant left", anyway? I only hear Republican, Trump types using it. Must have been a 60's thing. I'm not even sure I understand the context. Tolerant of what? Everything? Tolerant of every single thing on the planet? I've never claimed to be any such thing, and I don't know anyone who has.

@cookcounty

Every time you express your thoughts, you dig yourself deeper in a pile of manure. Do you ever read what you write.

Tolerant: Adjective - willing to accept someone else’s beliefs, way of life, etc. without criticizing them, even if you disagree with them

OneLook

And that's how the left describe themselves. Willing to accept someone's else's beliefs, all are welcome, all inclusive, etc.

A lot of blacks voted for president trump and agree with his views. I think many working blacks are sick and tired of the violence and incompetence in their communities. Many blacks are now taking the stance of “personal responsibility” and reject the mainstream blacks views that they are still being held down by racism. Many blacks realize the whole racism thing is a false narrative and quite frankly are embarassed by the level of irresponsibility and violence by their own people.
In fact there is a new movement called “ working class black lives matter” . Its aimed at the political left who believe laziness and excuses will pave the way for black mobility. That mobility seems to be going in reverse, not forward.

@ciment & @irishman

Black people might attack another black for voting trump

Im sorry that offends yall

Can you name one person on the left who describes themselves as tolerant? Just start with famous ones. Name one who's used that exact term.

"I'm tolerant".

I only hear people on the right use this term.

I've never claimed to be tolerant of white supremacists. Nobody should be.

You holding all black people responsible for black criminals is racist. You don't hold all white people responsible for white criminals.

@cookcounty

Do you realize you just made a profile remark.

Why would they " attack" another human being in the first place ?? Why is violence their 1rst reaction??..Answer..animals..no respect, not even 4 themselves,...I try 2 stay out of these postings , but this, I couldn't help myself,,I;m outta here.

I agree and what is insulting these same people portray themselves as being tolerant.

Oh, it doesn't offend me. Just seems draconian, like so many democrats/liberals are. This whole, "if you're not with us then you're against us" mentality. Or if you voted for Trump you're an automatic racist/sexist/xenophobe. No, not really. You can still not like Trump the man but his policies. I'm really getting sick and tired of the labels the left keeps putting on people if they don't agree with them!

It's called sarcasm. It was meant as a joke since the liberals see themselves as "Equality Avengers". They are so zealous in this pursuit to achieve human equality at all costs that they have made a mockery of the word tolerance. They aren't tolerant and they never have been. They just seek equality, which while sounding nice, results in them depriving others of their Liberty. This whole equality thing is a farce. It's nothing but an enforcement of their beliefs onto someone else and declaring war on others for having differences however harmless those opposing views may be.

Equity Avengers. I've never heard that term before at all.

Can you name one notable liberal who's ever referred to themselves as an "Equity Avenger"?

Sounds like a comic book.

Is this more of your sarcasm?

@hoodlum

You're on a mafia website complaining about violence

That doesn't make much sense


@irishman

You're sick of labels but you call people "the left"

Don't get mad if people think something is wrong with you for supporting a morally corrupted man like trump. You agree with his lack of values so don't get mad if people call you out on that

Yes it is. And it's Equality Avengers, not Equity Avengers. Try and keep up.

They're politicians, they're all corrupt. Do I even need to elaborate in terms of Hillary Clinton? And when/where exactly did I say I agreed with Trump's "lack of values'? What I said was you can agree with his policies and still not like him as a person.

Has Trump ever been implicated in murders? No? Then he's got nothing on the Clintons. At best, Vince Foster was driven to suicide by their thoughtless actions. At worst, his death was a hit, disguised as a suicide.

Has there ever been a resolution to what happened to Foster's files, that had dirt on the Clintons, after his office was ransacked?

Course not.

Hahaha.

What qualifies someone as having been "implicated" in a murder?

Because there's a theory out there that they were?

If Alex Jones says someone murdered somebody, that counts as an "implication"?

The Clintons have never been convicted of a murder.

They've never been charged with a murder.

No DA, grand jury, or law enforcement agency has ever launched an investigation into any alleged murders the Clintons may have been involved in.

But.....but....they were implicated in a murder, I tell ya! That ought to count for something!

https://deadspin.com/report-nfl-owners-admit-donald-trump-squeezed-them-on-1826419766

forcing business owners to change things in order to boost his political clout.. i'm interested in how you guys feel about this, since it's illegal

If you're asking Trump supporters, I'm pretty sure they'll say that this qualifies him for Mount Rushmore.

@oaksfan

They can put trump on mount rushmore

As long as he has his ku Klux klan mask on

This coming from the same guy who thinks 3 people being shot isn't a mass shooting

http://www.breitbart.com/sports/201...tm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook


GOOD NEWS: There will be more revenue loss for the NFL. GO PLAYERS GO !!

NFL Player: ‘We Won’t Allow the NFL or Trump to Bully Us’

Oak is delusional.

Imagine if Trump was implicated in someone's murder or sold national security secrets to the Chinese.

He would have a field day.

http://www.breitbart.com/big-hollyw...-for-calling-ivanka-trump-a-feckless-ct/

Samantha Bee Apologizes for Calling Ivanka Trump a ‘Feckless C**t

The tolerant left

Samantha Bee is a fat disgusting pig. She is obviously jelous of Ivanka who is much prettier, smarter, and has so much more class.

what does that have to do with the NFL though

i suppose nobody is going to reply to the article i posted

^^It disturbs me deeply. Both the forced patriotism that this issue is based on and the President using his bully pulpit to press on something like this. The fact that its a felony is not unimportant to me, but the way Trump has used this issue to divide people bothers me more.

Trump's stance on this is purely political and cynical. His comments about how kneeling players should be deported are both un-American and completely un-Constitutional. Anyone who knows anything about him knows it's all bullshit to him anyway, and that he's just using it as a tool. This is red meat to his supporters though. The fact that so many of those supporters are ok with it is stunning, but not at all surprising. This is turning into a religion or a cult where 'dear leader' can do no wrong. The 'problem' is with the outsiders. It's dangerous.

On the crime aspect of it I would say that rule of law is all we have protecting us, and if people just shrug that off because their side 'won' that protection grows tenuous. Probably seems ok when your team is in power, will seem less so when they aren't. I keep thinking of the lines Robert Bolt wrote in A Man For All Seasons about the devil and the law.

I totally disagree with you, i think you are 100% wrong. President Trump’s stance on kneeling during the anthem is authentic. The NFL players work for a corporation and they do NOT have the right to kneel. Its totally disrespectful and no one wants to see it. Most of it is a bunch of show boating so a few guys can feel important. Rosanne Barr worked for a corporation and was fired for saying something her superiors disagreed with. There is no first amendment right when you are an employee. The NFL players are there to entertain us , not try and act like a bunch of black panthers from the 1960’s. I dont want my kids seeing that nomsense and either do millions of other americans. There are brave men amd woman who lost their lives fighting for the meaning of that flag not to mention countless amounts who were severely wounded and lost limbs. Then you have a bunch of shit heads who get paid millions of dollars to play with a friggin ball who would never have the guts to fight in a war! Give me a break! They kneel, they get fined and fired. Then lets see if they want to play black panther when their piggy banks start getting empty.

What is there to agree or disagree with? I'm asking what people think about the president using his influence to forcibly change the way a private business operates in order to boost his own political clout, not whether or not you agree with kneeling during the anthem. You're happy about this because it's for something you agree with, I understand that, but what if the shoe was on the other foot? I'm sure you would not be alright with the president using their status to influence private business if it was something you did not personally agree with. Or are you trying to tell me that you're ok with sitting politicians stepping into the private sector and forcing businesses to do as they say?

There's just one thing wrong with your argument. It's wrong.

Political expression is a right here in the United States. That right was fought for by our armed services over the past 240+ years. Personally I'm tired of seeing everyone's expression at every occasion (whether it be an award show or a sporting event) but I'd rather see these feelings being expressed than realizing I don't have the right to express them. Sig Heil. That right is what makes America great.

Keep in mind that the US Constitution only applies to government.

SC
I totally disagree with what you are saying. I own a business and if any of my employees make political statements that i think can hurst my business, they would be fired in a second. As a business owner, i can do that. So can the NFL.

The shoe was on the other side for 8 years under Obama.

Obama also boosted his own political clout as well to say otherwise is foolish.

Trump didn't force the players. He stated his opinion that it was wrong for players not to stand for the anthem and many fans agreed with him.
Show me the executive order or law that forces them to stand, there is no such thing. This falls under the realm of company or corporate policies.
Why does a fan who pays good money to go to a game have to put up with their action of disrespecting the flag.The fans go there for entertainment not for political purpose or any other agenda people want to express. If this is allowed where does it stop, are we going to allow pro-life people , pro-abortion and any other group there champion their cause as well.
As I said before players who want to champion their cause can do so on their time. Many of them are famous and will have no problem attracting people and the press to convey their messages. In doing so,they may even attract more people to share their cause but using the flag anthem as a platform will only cause division as it already did.

Please show me exactly where Obama explicitly exerted his influence to force a corporate policy to be altered the way Jerry Jones testified Trump did.

And to be honest, it’s not about Trump personally or Obama, it’s about abuse of the executive office. That’s what none of you seem to want to answer. Take away the names and party affiliations. Are you alright with the president forcing private businesses to change their policies for their own political gain? Yes or no.

@rightpride

I dont hear u crying about the flag being thrown on the ground before every nfl game. U do know that flags aren't supposed to be on the ground. Them laying the flag on some grass is more disrespectful than somebody kneeling

Trump dodged the draft but yet u kiss his ass

So stop with the honor thy fallen soldier act of yours

You're ok with police brutality, so you should be ok with people protesting against police brutality

Misconception 1: Employees Have a Constitutional Right to Talk "Politics" at Work
Wrong.

Employees, as well as many employers, commonly but mistakenly believe that the First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution guarantees "freedom of speech" at work. In fact, the First Amendment applies only to government action and neither limits the rights of private employers to regulate employees' communications nor provides any constitutional right for those workers to express thoughts or opinions at work. As a result, there is no constitutionally protected right of "free speech" in the offices and factories of private employers. Although employees may be entitled to express their views freely on their own time or on a soapbox in the park, they have no such wide-ranging constitutional rights at work. Absent rights provided by one of the limited exceptions discussed below, there are no legal protections for political activities in the workplace, so private employers generally may refuse to hire, adjust pay/benefits and even discharge "at will" employees because of their political views.2 In short, "political discrimination" often is not unlawful discrimination.

Many employers do have policies limiting the discussion of political candidates and issues at work because of the risks of unlimited "free speech" in the workplace. For example, although there is no general federal law prohibiting employment discrimination on the basis of political affiliation or actions, sometimes seemingly neutral conversations about "politics" can lead to claims of employer discrimination, harassment or retaliation violating federal or state discrimination laws.

Workplace debates about a particular candidate's fitness for office often include mention of genders, races or religions or their views on hot-button social issues such as abortion, "family values," immigration and healthcare, which often are polarizing issues on which there are strong and opposing views among employees of different genders, religions, national origins, etc. The potential for heated disagreements – and inflammatory, impulsive, ill-advised comments – is obvious. Unfortunately, such comments sometimes result in claims of discrimination or retaliation in which it is alleged that "my supervisor is biased against [women/non-Christians/Hispanics] as shown by his comments about [healthcare/abortion/immigration policy]" or "the company punished me because I disagreed with my boss about [a social issue implicating gender, nationality, or religion]." Further, public discussion of schoolyard "bullying" seems to have prompted claims of "bullying" harassment by both supervisory and non-supervisory employees who forcefully advocated their political opinions to unreceptive co-workers. It is understandable, therefore, why many employers simply elect to minimize such controversies by prohibiting all "politics" at work.

Absolutely, unequivocally no.

Show me how Trump forced him. You are the one that mentioned the word force.You haven't shown me nothing. Jerry Jones can say many things.
Obama not so affordable healthcare, did he not establish a penalty for those not wanting to register ? Did he not force nun's to provide condoms by bringing them to court. His cronies went after ten commandment monuments, the cross, nativity displays.

So no yes or no to my final question?

No such thing happened. Trump expressed his opinion and my understanding of the first amendment it includes Trump.

can’t even get a straight yes or no huh

You want me to say yes or no on something which I proclaim did not happen.
I thought we were having a mature conversation.

I thought so as well. That’s why for the sake of conversation I said we can remove names and partisan affiliation from the equation. I simply asked if you are alright with the president, not Trump per se, using their influence to alter the policies of a private business. It’s a hypothetical, that’s all.

Fair question, normally I do not agree, but politicians do it all the time.

In the case of the anthem, it would be different. A president swears an oath to protect the constitution and it would be his patriotic duty to request that the flag be respected. I have no problems for the players to champion their causes and exercise their first amendment I just draw the line when it comes to the anthem and flag. I just find they are using the wrong public forum and I still maintain more people would join their causes if it would be held other than during the anthem.

The nfl players are choosing to kneel because its televised and they can easily get their 15 minutes of fame with their show boating. I can guarantee most of those guys can care less about their communities, its all about self promotion. Any idiot can kneel, it takes no effort. They just want other people to think they are somehow politically and socially concious.
If they really, truly want to bring attention to their cause, they can go to communities on their own time, not the NFL’s time or the fans time, and raise awareness by talking to cops and members of the black community. That would take too much effort. They would rather kneel.

I can't answer for those players who choose to kneel. Only they know in their heart if they are really serious. I'm just saying that regardless they should have the right to "protest". Like I said before I personally don't like seeing an American pro athlete taking a knee when the national anthem is played but I defend their right to do so.

@rightpride

Nfl players care more about the police killing unarmed black people than you care about school shootings

If you can be racist then they can kneel at football games

The union had better take this on in the next round of negotiations. I'm not sure about the current president, DeMaurice Smith. He said last time that he wouldn't give up a dime until the owners opened their books. They never did, yet he still gave concessions. Today's NFL players are not well enough informed on the importance of union solidarity. I hold retired players responsible for not doing more to educate them. I know they have enough on their plate too, between head trauma and not being compensated for their likenesses being used in video games, etc. I just hope retirees and current players aren't at odds with each other. These owners have enough money to go around for everyone. Former and current players have to stick together, not treat it like a zero sum game. Keep their eyes on the over-compensated owners who took the lion's share of what they gave their knees and brains for.

That's the spirit. You can't get more American than that, all though you can get more fascism with Trump and his traitors.

Firstly, let me remind you of the First Amendment.

Secondly, after 8 years of "real" fascism by the left liberals taking away religious rights, forcing nuns to provide condoms, not allowing to drink 16 oz coke, straws. Telling people what to eat or not to eat. Forcing people to pay penalty for a not so affordable health care, cheating in the democratic primaries, getting the answers from CNN in a debate......... I could write forever !!!

sat·ire: definition

The use of humor, irony, exaggeration, or ridicule to expose and criticize people's stupidity or vices, particularly in the context of contemporary politics and other topical issues.

The leftist liberals are the real bullies & traitors here. Since when am I not allowed to use satire.

It is obvious I do not want anyone to lose their jobs or the NFL to fold.
My point is if they continue on this stupidity of insulting their fan base they will fold and they will be the only ones to fault.

Is this American enough for you Giacomo !.

I think it is the Russians colluding to break up the NFL.

We should have another special counsel to investigate it !

Trump and his traitors you say:

OK- for Obama/Hillary to give 20% of U.S uranium to the Russians.
OK-for Obama/Kerry to give billions of dollars to the Iranians who are using it to kill Americans
OK- to leave Americans to die in Libya

Trump and his traitors you say:

Which candidate plays "proud to be an American" before each rallies and is fighting to keep American jobs from going abroad.

Other than lip service, Trump has done nothing to fight American jobs going abroad.

And, let's say he does actually do something to keep them here. Is he going to support unions? What happens if the coal companies decide to use part time labor to save money? Those jobs would be meaningless. Side hustles just like Uber. Nothing you could buy a house on.

Yes he has. Just the fact of lowering corporate tax, companies are more likely to invest here than abroad. He also got certain countries like Japan to invest billions in America.

But I guess people that live in fantasy land will never experience this realization.

What about the workers? Trump promised to help the workers, not just the companies. This means full time jobs. Strength in unions. Health benefits. Pensions.

I don't think anyone is going to experience your "realization" other than the top 1%.

@ciment

So u can insult nfl players but they cant "insult" you

You're not insulted, u just dont care about police brutality

Republicans are unpatriotic because they're conservative

The whole american dream is supposed to be liberal

If they stem the flow of immigration from places like Mexico, it means more jobs, higher wages, and a better standard of living for Americans.

These guys lower the standards for everyone else.

Anyone seen the movie "A Day Without a Mexican"?

All of the Mexican immigrants disappear. At first it seems like the ultimate dream scenario for right wingers. Then, it gets to the consequences of having no immigrant labor to draw from. A farmer hires a bunch of white people. Later in the day, he goes out to check on their progress, and finds that they're still putting on their sunscreen..

That’s great SC. I just clicked play thinking it was an old Dylan performance. Aside from the fact that Jimmy Fallon seems o be able to impersonate anyone, good lyrics.




TIS

Gotta love the line, "who by taking a knee are taking a stand".

@cookcounty

Of course the NFL players can insult me, whatever gave you that idea.

I do care about police brutality. Any police officer abusing their power should be charged to the fullest extend of the law no matter if your black, white, brown or yellow.
I just do not buy in fake news media and alleged victims that want to cry police brutality every five minutes.
I think it is over blown and has become political. Fake news media is just pandering to the leftist liberals. In this day and age it has become increasingly more and more difficult for police officers to abuse their powers due to media coverage, civil rights investigation,technology such as body cameras and witnesses with cell phones. Actually, I would be in favor for more cameras on street corners and buildings similar to that of the British.

The majority of police officers do their jobs properly. I never heard of any neighborhood that refused police protection. There are a few rotten ones and that is where the focus should be in identifying them and getting them off the streets and arrests.

I forgot to reply to the american dream is supposed to be liberal.
Are you referring to the liberal tent city, people urinating & defecating in the streets, increased food stamps and not so affordable healthcare where you can all choose your own doctor (?) and not allowing building & growth because some protected frog that farts the wrong way.

Hilarious.

It hasn't stopped them one bit.

Sadly.

I expected that answer from you.

Good one

On a lighter note, I think Jay Leno is twice as funny as Jimmy Kimmel, Jimmy Fallon, Stephen Colbert and Jon Stewart.

I really felt sorry for the way Leno was bullied in the media. That prick Kimmel even disrespected him on his own show over the Conan deal.

I agree, any officer abusing their power should be prosecuted and there are some wanna-be victims who claimed they were assaulted by officers, only to have their body camera footage show otherwise. Typical victimhood mentality, always crying wolf. However, they have been plenty of times were victims stated the police abused them and the footage showed that too. Just another reason I'm in favor of all officers being required to have body cameras as it'll protect both the police and citizens (well, hopefully anyway).




While this may be true that it is harder for police officers to hide their abuse of power, how many officers actually get convicted? How many even have charges brought against them? Again, I agree with you in that all officers who abuse their power should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law; however, the system is setup to protect the police IMO. Too many times has evidence come out and the officers got off. You can go all the way back to Rodney King and not much has changed since then. And in terms of more cameras on the streets, I am not in favor of that. Big Brother will exploit that and after what came out after Edward Snowden left the CIA, the spying going on by our government, the last thing they need is more surveillance.

London is covered with cameras everywhere. Hasn't made a dent in crime there.

I think it's good that racism isn't tolerated, and there is no hiding place for racists anymore, but, at the same time there's such a thing as taking censorship too far.

Jerry Seinfeld and Chris Rock have talked about political correctness and how comedians are limited in what they can say nowadays without attracting the ire of snowflakes, social justice warriors, and white knights.

While people who don't have uniform political views are basically outcasts in Hollywood; Kelsey Grammer spoke of the difficulties of being a republican in Hollywood.

Liberals could practice what they preach in accepting other beliefs, and differing political views, as long as they are within decent boundaries.

Whenever there is a killing by policemen and it involves a black person it now gets scrutinized by the media, FBI, NAACP and more. I find this to be a good thing. Whereby in the past it was just another killing. I applaud all the new changes that have been made & applied to catch the bad cops.
I would like to see the stats of today as opposed to the past to see if there was improvement. I am inclined to think that more bad cops are being charged today. I may be naive to thinks so but my heart is in the right place.
If that is not the case then I would join forces with all concerned to address this problem.

I just find that in today generation there are too many people (media included) crying wolf and have no idea how it harms genuine abuse of power and racism. An example is the Ferguson case which evolved from a lie to don't shoot hands up. If memory serves me correct testimony were taken by black witnesses.

With regards to the spying by the government I agree with you 100% , I don't like big brother also but cameras in public areas I have no problem with that.

@moetilden

The terms liberal and conservative is how the govt keeps us divided. Evrybody is liberal amd conservative about certain topic

Cops aren't worth shit, they all have dirt on them

The cops that are ok are the ones that didn't get bullied

Is this a joke?

Even the White House is currently a hiding place for racists.



Roseanne was given a prime time show on a major network to promote a right wing, pro Trump agenda. She had to publicly call a black person an ape to get it taken away.



He hasn't been in anything good in 20 years. Every washed up actor has a blacklist theory. What do you think Kelsey Grammer would be doing with the exact same talents if he were a liberal? Playing a grandfather on some Nickelodeon sitcom? He could probably get that gig now.

Major network to promote pro Trump agenda you are speaking of is ABC which is anti-Trump.

Another one of your fictitious nonsense. Do you ever tell the truth ?

You should call the police station near your house and tell them that their services are no longer required.
You may get a tax refund.

Wouldn't be necessary. Police only protect the rich, anyway.

The rich like the movie stars,football players, journalists,singers, leftist liberals politicians ...... you know all the people that are against the second amendment and want armed policemen to protect them. But they do not want armed officers to protect children at school.

Hypocrisy at it's best !

Oakasfan
I really dont think you believe more than half the things you say. You make outlandish statements just because it gets your rocks off. No offense. The police only protect the rich ! What a dumb fuckin statement.
If that were true, and its not even close, why do cops face never ending backlash when they initiated stop and frisk and actually lowered the crime rate? Why do cops face backlash when there is more of a police presence in high crime area’s?
Why is there always backlash when the police throw criminals from high crime areas in prison. People in low income/ bkack neighborhoods complain about the high rate of crime and then when the police aggressively go after the criminals, they start crying about racism. Even though many of the cops themselves are black amd hispanic. Im not smart enough to understand that logic or lack thereof.
Almost every day i see articles about arrests of gang members and drug gangs in low income areas. Who’s making the arrests, the tooth fairy!!, give me a fuckin break.

@ciment

Nobody has said shit about having pigs in schools

People don't believe in arming teachers

Teachers can barely teach, what the fuck they need a gun for

You would be ok with some form of new guns laws if you really cared about dead childrem


@rightpride

So you're basically saying that the police are always right

There are countless of videos showing pigs in the wrong

Nobody complains about decent law abiding police work

You want to call cops pigs? How about we call blacks the N word?? how does that sound?

@rightpride

Say it if it'll make you feel better

You do not seem informed. Some schools already have armed personnel. You don't like cops, teachers, black conservatives, republicans.
Pretend to speak on everyone's behalf. Who the fuck made you the voice of all ?

I'm reading a George Pelecanos book set in Washington and one of the characters says that a large group of police recruits from back in the late eighties were mentally unqualified to be police officers.

Just thought I'd throw that out there.

The book happens to involve police brutality.

I'd imagine the recruitment process is a little more stringent now.

Soul Circus? That's a pretty good one.

The recruitment process varies from area to area. Some places train their officers much better than others. The fact of the matter is that there are good and bad cops, but we'll never be able to tell the difference because the ones that may be good allow the bad ones to continue their reigns of terror without any opposition. This is extremely costly to the cities that employ them, because when they eventually get sued or kill someone, it's the taxpayers that have to pay out those huge settlements, not the police unions. This obviously skews how they view accountability since they know it won't be their organization paying the true cost.

Another problem is with officers who are fired for misconduct being hired right back, usually by a neighboring town or county. Now you have an officer that you KNOW is dangerous and a liability on the street. This just happened in a case of a cop who was fired for intentionally hitting a fleeing suspect with a car.
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entr...b09578259c3097?ncid=edlinkushpmg00000313

Honestly, on a forum full of mob enthusiasts I figured we would all be well versed in just how corrupt law enforcement can be. Look how the FBI ROUTINELY corrupts investigations and protects criminals and crooked agents. From Lin DeVecchio in NYC to John Connolly in Boston, these guys hurt so many innocent people, and these are just the guys who got caught. Imagine your average John Doe who gets fucked over by the cops saying he did something or had drugs that were planted on him. What realistic recourse does he have? He's got a snowball's chance in Hell. These things happen every single day, please don't kid yourself otherwise.

Why is that the first place you choose to take it? You can't even help yourself, it's pathetic.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0N87mlXfzmk

Trump at his best !

I went to a highschool that had armed pigs on the premises

Nobody likes black conservatives, they are lost souls

You can careless about school shootings like most trump supporters. People who love trump are some angry and hateful individuals

People who like Trump want to maintain american values.

@cookcounty

Do you ever read your own trash that you write.

You hate policemen, black conservatives and in the same sentence you accuse others of being hateful......
Furthermore, you mentioned that you had armed cops at school.
I see your cop friends kept you alive. You should kiss their feet.

He should kiss other body parts as well. He is lucky the police have kept him and his community alive. Can you imagine what his community would be like without the police? People would be dropping like flies because of all the violence.
If the police are pigs, Sharpton and Lebron James are rat urine.

I don't remember where I heard it but I remember recently hearing that the number of recruits have dropped in recent years for police departments. A lot of people either don't want the risks involved with the job, want better paying jobs or don't want to be associated with the stigma that cops face today. However, that has left police forces turning to less desirable candidates (i.e. racist, those who abuse power, etc.). It's an interesting theory for sure given today's climate.

Cops can't keep anyone alive. If anyone wants to kill you, they will. If they're willing to do it, and they don't care about the consequences, you're gone. And a cop can't do a thing about it. The top priority of police is to protect the wealthy and the business class. After that comes the upper middle class. Everyone else? You're on your own. The police couldn't care less about you. You're just additional paperwork.

Not to worry, the streets of California will soon be policed by the MS-13 or Mexican Cartel, you will have your wish come true.

In many areas, it would be hard to notice the difference.

This is my kind of cop ! Im sure cookcounty likes him as well.

I agree, Thanks to your Gov. Brown

Yeah.

"why would anyone hate the cops?"

Colors was a pretty accurate description, too.

Penn and Duvall portrayed actual LAPD CRASH officers at the time who they'd went on ride alongs with.

They gave that shit head a taste of his own medicine.

How so? The kid didn't spray anyone with the paint. The cop did.

@irishman

The pigs are so deranged they do shit while on camera

The gun and badge is too much for some to handle

There was a recent video of a cop basically doing a drive-by shooting, they rolled up on a guy, the cop in the passenger seat reached out the window and shot someone that was standing on the curb

@oaksfan

Trump was trying to save face by canceling the invitation

Only about 8 players were going to go

8? Jeez.

That many?

@ RollinBones

Nah, the Pelecanos book I'm referring to is "Right as Rain".

I like reading stuff like Lehane and Pelecanos. It doesn't sugarcoat the racial stuff. It's a realistic, and empathetic, portrayal of the way white people and black people see each other.

People say that of James Ellroy. I've tried reading LA Confidential. My goodness is that guy scatterbrained. Then again, I thought the movie was grossly overrated, too. Morally conflicted protagonist just works better with gangster characters. With cops? yawn.

Ok I haven't read that one but I see it's set in the same universe as Soul Circus with Derek Strange. I'll have to check it out. Pelecanos is almost always on point, he's written some of the best episodes of The Wire, and The Deuce is also great. I'm a Boston guy so you can bet I'm a big Lehane fan too. You ever check out Iceberg Slim?

Gotta stick with Elmore Leonard for the pulp fiction.

Thank you Elmore Leonard, for saving 1990's cinema.

I acknowledge that there are bad cops out there but their in a minority. Most cops do their job right. This NFL thing is a political stunt by the left. Main stream media, liberal politicians and Hollywood are complicit. They act as one and many times condemn the officer(s) guilty before the trial even begins. The democratic party wants to hang on to the black/hispanic vote and what better way is to convince them that the republicans are bad people that want to persecute minorities.

When I get stopped by police I shut my car motor before I get told, put my wallet on the dash board and both my hands are on the steering wheel in plain view of the officer. I am polite and control my emotions even though deep inside I would like to give them my opinion.
I have trained both my sons to do the same if ever they get stopped. Is this so hard to do ?

I have encounter bad cops in my younger days, I was arrested a number of times,hit, threaten, one enjoyed hitting me with a phone book during interrogation. Some even tried to pin a false charge on me but I prevailed.
I didn't grow up to hate them all or play the victim card.
People should focus on the bad ones rather than paint all cops as bad.

I can totally picture Oakasfan or cookcounty actually killing a cop. I really feel oakasfan will shoot a cop in the head from behind or run him over with a car. Its obvious something is brewing in his mind and it aint good.

That's a disgusting thing to say and I'm tired of your innuendos. Take a month off and learn some social skills.

@ciment

Players aren't kneeling because of fucking politics

Half of the players kneeling probably vote republican to keep more of their hard earned money

The police shoot unarmed black men and arrest school/mass shooters without incedent. People will stop protesting the police when they act properly

Pigs are dirty, especially when its a group of them

@cookcounty

They are kneeling because of fucken politics.
The shooting of unarmed black men does exist and I acknowledge it but it is not as prevalent as the liberal politicians and the leftist media portrays to be. As I mentioned prior, any case involving racism gets investigated and is scrutinized by many such as FBI, civil rights activists, NAACP and more.

Protests will never end as long as there is hatred in peoples hearts.

Most cops do their job, only a small percentage are bad.

You are a good example of people that pretend to have experienced racism when in fact you lived a sheltered life and the only example you gave in a previous statement was that your college professor was racist. You are the prime example of people calling wolf all the time when there is no need. You are marginalizing the true victims of racism.

@ciment

U seem to think that u know black people very well

Is this through personal experience or did u read a book?

U talk as if you're in the mind of every black person

Hahaha!

Most assumptions of yours are wrong as usual.

I do not know why you bring them up, but I most certainly know more than you which is not that much of a complement for me.
You always make blanket statements with no justification.

For you information I did have frequent interrelations with African Americans through my line of work as HR Trainer and was privileged to have known so many. I was also privileged to have had some work for me and friends as well. Nevertheless it does not make me an expert when speaking of race relations. I am merely just another person offering his point of view. People will have diverse opinions based on their background, life experience,up bringing and other.

You are the one who professes to know more but the mere mention of a black conservative having a different view point, makes you vile, obtuse,hostile and intolerant.

OK, you two, CUT IT OUT with the little cute personal remarks.

SC, on a different matter.

A few years back you had poster a list of mafia books. Are you going to update your list anytime soon?

That had given me the idea to start a book collection as well. I presently have around 155 books on organized crime.

I wasn't planning on it but feel free to add your collection of titles in that forum.

Cookcounty
Why are you calling Black people pigs ?? Do you think they live like pigs based on experience? I know many black neighborhoods are crime ridden and there are many black woman who are called “ baby makin machines who choose to live off the system” but calling them pigs is wrong.

Uh oh...9 comments and jumping into political discussions already?

Return of The Rooster?

Long Live The Rooster.

@ SC, disappointed in you that you had to stoop to name calling. But youre the boss. Feel bad for you too now.

@ Loscalzo, your nonsense about Tampa still holds no weight and Ive been vindicated many times over.

All the best to Nickle, Bensonhurst, Cabrini, and Giacomo. Keep up the good posts in my absence