You guys ever notice this ??

You guys ever notice this? Anytime someone says; " that used to be a great neighborhood, now its so dangerous".
Its always because blacks moved in. You never see a neighborhood turn to shit/ high crime when Polish people move in. Maybe puerto rican to a certain extent but my god, anytime a white hood goes to black, it becomes violent.
Its so true, you just cant argue with facts.

I have to comment on this. I grew up in the Larimer Ave area of Pittsburgh which was known as Pittsburgh's Little Italy. Yes, the Avenue was dominated by Italians, but there were plenty of other ethnicities that lived there also. It was a vibrant, attractive Avenue with business dotting the landscape, and houses and apartments along it and its side streets. That was in the 60s and maybe just slightly into the 70s.

Through Google earth, take a look at it now. You'll see huge swaths of empty lots and dilapidated housing. It has no life. It's been that way for a few decades now. So, why? What happened? What's the variable? Black Americans moved in; that's what happened. Drive up and down the Avenue and its side-streets. You won't see white people, or Hispanic people, or Asian people. You will see black people. It's such a tragedy. The white people left, the Italians and poles, and Germans, and Slovaks left, the Catholics and Protestants left.

Over the last few decades when I would visit Pittsburgh and tell my dad that my sisters and I were going to visit the old neighborhood, he would tell me: "Be careful." It was good advice.

...And I must also comment,although i am in fear of being called a certain label in this day & age of political correctness,i am simply stating an example of truth...I grew up in mayfair ,n.e.phila.,the streets were lined w/pretty trees,everyones front lawn was manicured w/rose bushes,birdbaths & lawn sculptures etc.(circa 60s to the early 80s) I moved out in 82 & all was the same until about early 90s. The neighborhood was predominantly jewish or us roman catholic..Now, if i cruise through( w/windows up & doors locked) it looks devastated, no trees,unkempt yards.TRASH on the curbs & sidewalks,NO FUCKIN'BIRDS!..turn on the 11o clock news & the 1rst thing u hear 4 the next 10 minutes the words SHOT,SHOOT,KILLED ,ROBBED OR MURDERED...alot of it in the once beautiful place i roamed ,rode my bike,went to the store for elderly neighbors(kids could b trusted w/someone elses money back then,we respected our elders),built snowmen, shoveled snow 2 EARN a buck,,BORN & RAISED ..u get the idea..what happened??? take a fuckin' guess. Sorry if my honesty offended anyone,but it burns me up 2 c my birthplace turned into a ghetto.

RE:olivant & crash..ur gonna get me in trouble ,getting me all worked up like that..LOL

One of my favorite guys here, Pizza, used to write that there is some truth behind stereotypes. That they don't appear out of thin air. I always respected his honesty.

Crash is clearly trolling , but I CANNOT dispute anything by Oli or Hoodlum.I've lived in a few places and my experience is that the number and % of regular civil Black folks is dwindling and larger % of Black folks are just BAD neighbors.


Hoodlum, Trump's rise is partly based on people not being able to tell their version of the truth for fear of being labeled a bigot,etc.

Reality is reality. The existence of the mafia doesn't mean that every Italian American or Sicilian American is a gangster, but the mafia does exist. By the same token, if people look at archive pictures/footage of many cities, you can literally pinpoint the exact era that neighborhoods declined. Not opinion, but facts. It is what it is.

What I've been able to do a few times, and for several family members, is to drive the bad element out of neighborhoods or blocks before they become irreparably damaged. The formula is no different than what the newcomers do when an area is initially becoming gentrified.

If you look at the sad story hoodlum tells, even the birds had to leave his old neighborhood. Pretty sad.
The blacks just live a little differently than whites.

One other observation. I go to a certain chinese restaurant and i asked the owner a question. I said, Mr. Tong, what do you say to yourself when a group of white kids walk into your restaurant? He replied : " hope they like food ".

I then asked him this. Mr Tong, what do you say to yourself when a group of black home boys stroll into your restaurant ?
He replied: " here come trouble ."

Now this guy isnt observant and philosophical when it comes to race like i am so his words really speak volumes.

What's the matter Pogo, no one to play with at the other site today?

it's happened all over the country, look at Chicago, old neigborhoods now murder capitals, I grew up in orange co, calif in the 50s early 60s came to cda id, in 1968, went back to my home town in 1982, all Asians, block, after block, it's never going to get any better, we will always remember the way it was.

like Thomas wolfe says, "YOU CAN'T GO HOME AGAIN"

Thanx 4 the feed nets..but i'm a little confused on your very last sentence. Layman's terms please?(if u want,that is).

All of the jobs left.

Hmm. Im poor, my mama is a single parent who had children starting in her teens. She kept on having babies even though she couldnt afford to take care of herself never mind children. I dont know who my father is and most of my siblings are from different men.
So, im poor, i have no skills and i think im gonna go have a baby without being married.
Do you guys think my baby will have a much greater chance if going to jail???
Fuck yeah!!!!!
Then why do blacks keep doing this ??????

Alright dude, enough already.

+1

+2

Crash - keep your bigoted diarrhea off these boards. No more warnings!

I'm willing to bet Olivant's Pittsburgh neighborhood wasn't as nice he or she romanticizes it to be.

That's the thing about racism. It's not just the negative things said about the group being targeted, it's the delusional, romanticized view that racists have of their own people and their own background. It's well documented that there was mob activity in Pittsburgh's Little Italy at this magical time in Pittsburgh's history. That means there were drugs. That means there were prostitutes. That means there was violent crime. Robberies. Muggings. Rapes. Olivant doesn't see this, because Olivant doesn't want to see it. Olivant chooses not to see it. Olivant would rather focus on how much worse things are now that black people are there. Racism isn't about any race being perfect. It's about emphasizing the flaws of other races in order to have pride in your own race. Most racists are delusional fools, they're not keeping it real.

Oak,

Going by what Oli wrote, again...I cannot dispute what he wrote. Unless you're a mind reader and can imagine what people are thinking, I don't think you can dispute anything he wrote either.

What he wrote about Pittsburg applies to the big manufacturing towns in my state...namely that if you take a snapshot of these towns from 4-5 decades ago and compare them to now....you'd hardly think that you're looking at the same places.

Is the same amount of manufacturing still there that was there 4 decades ago, or has most of the industry now gone?

Its not just the blacks, it's all races. Its the class of people. It seems to be more prevalent with the blacks from my journies in life. Got a van full of carpet and some homeboy comes out to tell me im in the wrong fucking neighborhood. Sorry asshole, your neighbor paid for this carpet to be installed. That's just one occasion. The black ghettos are the nastiest and most primitive. Fucking animals. And if that lifestyle and environment isnt enough to motivate one to achieve as much as possible and rise above. There must be wrong with the thought process. Hispanics dont want to stay in the barrio, so they work hard and get the fuck out. The italians and other Europeans didnt like the ghetto, so they worked hard and got the fuck out. Now you throw in section8, free healthcare, unemployment, obama phones, and free college bc your parent (single mom with numerous baby daddies) gets all the above,and you still cant do something with your life? Wtf? Bend a knee, blame the cops, and preach how society tightened those shackles to allow you to rise. I might not get it, I'm white. Lol

Manufacturing industry has been in decline for about 4 decades, you are right about that. I think what doomed people more than those jobs going away, were their attitudes about education and entrepreneurship. My father worked in a factory and the point wasn't for him to break his back for his son to be working right alongside him, doing the exact same thing. That factory job was a means to an end, not the end itself.

About the neighborhoods falling apart? I always say that there is a difference between not having a lot of money and being poor. Once a person loses his/her dignity, they are poor.You can walk through the worst neighborhoods in America and find many people who carry themselves with pride. They respect themselves and their home/environment. The problem is that the losers with no self respect ruin the entire area for the regular people.

Sure, Hoodlum.
The former "bad" areas in America are becoming gentrified as people with money are moving from the suburbs back to the cities now.
First thing they do is to force law enforcement/government to do their jobs and enforce the rules on the book about safety.

People in "bad" areas or in good areas that some losers are trying to ruin can do the same thing; monitor the area you live in, call police on the losers, force officials to enforce law and safety codes. Some people sit by idly as the area they live in slowly decays. Me? the First sign of bullsh*t, I'm trying to get you out of the neighborhood. Either conform to the rules of the area, keep paying steep fines from the township, or beat it.

I agree with what youre saying. I know a lot of people in the generations before mine that were like your dad.

The jobs going away is a big part of what ails us though. Steady employment and the chance for a decent life does go a long way toward solving lots of issues that lead to crime. It would even greatly improve the situation in the middle east. People with decent jobs are less likely to be terror recruits, which at its core is just another form of crime. Im digressing a bit, but there are some commonalities.



i agree with this too. There are always people who for whatever reasons give in to their poverty, and let it defeat them. I can sympathize with some of the reasons, and not with others. This portion of people crosses all color lines, despite what the troll op would like to believe.

Helen,

great point about lack of work. You're right about people with few options being easy manipulated into acts of terror..or manipulated other ways.
Some people enter life of crime out of desperation, but some...like the early crack sellers just wanted a shortcut. Wanted big money right away. I'm old enough to remember the summer that crack hit the streets. Think I was in middle school. Manufacturing jobs and other career options were still viable, but many young guys CHOSE to sell drugs instead.
Things haven't been the same since then.



Yeah, OP and blue are trolling.I think they are more upset about their own circumstances and just deflecting their anger towards others. BUT....the point about neighborhoods declining (when and how)are true.

Gets, Oaks

The declining of the neighborhood's down South is quite similar. Farish District in Jackson for example was the biggest Black district in Mississippi and large amounts of goods and services flowed through it since Blacks wasn't allowed on Capitol Street. After the 60s and Jim Crow laws tarnished, the Farish district decline gradually into a ghetto with active drugs & prostitution for any to see. No different from other major cities of the 70s-90s.

The movement of not just whites but Blacks that could afford to live anywhere or elsewhere is a major factor in expanding the underclass Black areas. Remember that even back then during Jim Crow era that there was a distinctive separation of social class in the Black community , Ex: Church Street in Farish District was the sugar hill of Black Jacksonians, Memphis Northside is where middle class or above lived while Southside was working class, etc. Also argue why the whites just stay put in their communities as well but nobody can see into the future with 100% accuracy.

Also, Some whites already lived in the ghetto then Blacks moved in to that area and it remain the same ( Fuller Park in Chicago, Brownsville for the NYers). While some communities remain middle class after demographic transition ( Chatham in Chicago, South Jamaica , Queens NYC , is that correct?). So therefore it's not always the case but nonetheless sometimes.

BlackFam,

Excellent points. Striver's Row in Harlem is an example to join the ones you listed of middle class enclaves of Blacks during segregation era.
I used to get into arguments with people when we were teens/20s. I had friends who said that the accomplished Blacks "owed" it to the community to stay around and yada yada yada. I felt that after crack and the violence associated with it, person's first priority was safe environment that they "owed" their family. If that was possible within the community,great....if not..time to get out.

All the people who were saying that "owe" stuff moved to the suburbs themselves years ago. Was just young idealistic talk coming out of their mouths.

The criminal/street element of our community has expanded GREATLY in the past 30 years....

Now, the funniest/saddest thing I've encountered are suburban thug wannabes..trying to ruin quiet towns . pathetic.

Lack of work ??? What does that mean ? Why did so many workers from south america come here if there was no work?
Also, are there fathers in the households to enforce strong work ethics?
Robberies and rapes in italian neighborhoods back in the day? Uh, i dont think so.
The mafia kept those hoods safe. Of course there were some crime but if you are trying to infer that italian neighborhoods had the level of violence that todays black neighborhoods have despite italian neighborhoods being dirt poor, you are making a statement that is laughable and i dont believe you actually think that.

Dude, we get it. You're a racist, and a troll.


It's fucking boring.

Crash your views on old mafia neighborhoods comes from movies. You don't know anything about them. Neither does the person who said Pittsburgh was nice until blacks came there. Pittsburgh was never nice. lol. White people are just in denial of their own trash. It's like how you can't smell yourself, you know?

I grew up in the Brownsville section of Brooklyn, NY. It was a slum when I lived there, a slum before I lived there, and is a slum now.

What a bunch of nonsense Turnbull. Brownsville may have been dirt poor but it certainly was'nt violent and dangerous like it is today, you are spinning the truth. I know, my old landlords was from there.
In fact you just added credence to my assertion that poverty in and of itself doesnt cause violence. You just gave a great example of that when you reference
Brownsville Brookly in the 1950's.
So what the hell causes blacks to be so friggin violent and irresposnsible ???
Im also quite sure the reference to Pittsburg is flawed. He clearly states it was a great place to live. So what if it was poor or working class, it was a great place to live. Of course blacks moved in and what a shock, violence is rampant.
I feel bad for our friend from Pittsburg. Its an all too common story.

Let's be clear: I commented about a very specific part of Pittsburgh - Larimer Ave, the Little Italy of Pittsburgh with Labriola's and Pompa's grocery stores, and Stagno's Bakery, St Peter's and Paul's Church and school and Help of Christians church.

As I posted above, there are any number of pictures on the web of Larimer Ave in the 60s when it was still a largely Italian avenue and was a great and vibrant place to live. Look at it now; use Google Earth to cruise up and down that Avenue. If you do, you'll see that it is full of empty lots and dilapidated housing and businesses, and crumbling streets and sidewalks. Why? Was it the weather or earthquakes? The Italians left, the Irish left, the Germans left, the Slovaks left. Figure out who moved in.

Wow. The Italians and Irish on Larimer ave. even repaved their own crumbling streets and sidewalks. They didn't wait for government to do it, like the *current* residents...

Who knew?

Turnbull

Thanks for the input. Did the city government ever implement any type of programs or investments during your time in Brownsville?

You don't know amd don't base your opinion on what your landlord thinks. My dad grew up in Brownsville and he'd tell me of the horrors of the neighborhood. That was in the 1930s. It got even worse after that but it's a lot better now than it was then.

Your racist rants are really wearing thin, as is your welcome to post here. Just stop this nonsense already!

Crash is a fucking weirdo. He had a post a week or two back about how he likes to groom young black kids listening to boston.

First off, no one in the world cares about blacks more than i do. Im the only one on the front lines who is bringing the truth to the surface : degradation of the tradition black family, out of wedlock births, and irresponsible lifestyles,
Im at the forefront here and refuse to spin the truth to fit the narrative of liberal liars and excuse makers. Not me, i wont bend.

Could not have phrased that anybetter!awesome synopsis.

Ahh yes.. that very same thing is happening to certain neighborhoods (fishtown,kensington etc..) here in philly..thanx nets.

About 5 years ago I witnessed and video taped an act of vandalism at the apartment complex I was living in. I called the sheriffs. When they arrived, they were apathetic, and seemed more pissed at me for calling them than they were at what took place in the video I showed them. They told me my only options (get it, my options? evidently this wasn't their problem...) were to either complain to the apartment manager, or make a "citizens arrest", where the burden would be on me to produce evidence in court, and I could be sued for wrongful arrest, etc. They were clearly discouraging me from doing anything. So, I ended up just complaining to the apartment manager, these two young women that hang out and eat pizza all day. They may as well have punched themselves in the face.

Maybe I'm being cynical, nets, but I think the police protect the areas where there's lucrative real estate investment, and couldn't care less about other areas. In fact, I believe they discourage people in poor areas from calling them, and would just rather everyone killed each other. Of course they don't say this on tv. They always say they want the poor communities to get involved, but they don't mean it. The police protect the money. That's just my assessment based on my experiences.

You're full of shit if you believe that. You're also gone from here. Too disruptive.

Crash and burn.

Long time coming

You watched and videotaped a crime? Fucking useless waste of life. You could've made a change, but not only did you sit back and do nothing, you videotaped it? You must have not had a father figure in your life. Poor oak, just don't get it.

Yeah, I videotaped it. With a camcorder.

My point, you videotaped instead of doing something. Like I said previously, useless little creature you are.

Yes, I saw your anonymous internet "ooh, I would have done such and such if I were there" comment. I'm truly impressed.

Maybe the cops were hinting at you to go and do something yourself. But people like you,can't help yourself. Sit by and watch.

I think that's what the cops were doing, too, which was the basis of my criticism. They're paid an awful lot to just tell citizens to go out there and police their communities themselves. What exactly is it that police do, then? Thanks for helping me make my point, even if you were attempting another lame burn.

Oak,
Ok..good points. However, as I've said before here....people in authority positions in poorer areas know full well that they aren't held accountable for anything. If you are a police chief, school board president,etc in a poor city...you have built in excuses when your stats look bad AND you generally are in charge of a district where people don't vote or are active in politics.

Pretty cushy stress free high paying job. Crime is up or test scores are down? Hey....it was like that before I got here.
Lot easier than running a safe or high performing area and having to maintain good stats.

In poor areas, issues only get addressed during election years for appearances.

Having said all that, and having grown up in a city where they followed this credo to a T., I expect apathy from city hall but there's more than one way to skin a cat. I made complaints before to my sister's township about some problems. Nothing got done. So, I sent an anonymous letter to the head guys in charge of public safety and health for the STATE....and CC'ed the sit-on-his-ass mayor. I listed the complaints I made to the town and that nothing had been done to address the issue. About a week later , that township sent a notice to residents about their "new initiative" and they addressed the issue right away.

When areas become gentrified, generally you have people who vote and with more formal education moving in. They find ways to force the formerly sitting on ass people in authority to DO their jobs. And it's not just a handful of people battling the apathy, it's the majority of them.

I was actually expecting that response, Nets, and you're absolutely right. It can't be just me. It has to be an organized effort by several people. I was using a rather cynical, anecdotal example I guess to just vent about that incident. lol. It just makes me angry when you see cops on tv saying "people need to get involved", etc, knowing damned well they hate dealing with poor on poor crime, doing the paperwork, etc. Most cops are either in it for the plumb pay and benefits, or their hero mechanism is wired to save the hand that feeds them, the rich, the nice, clean neighborhoods, while all other victims are an annoyance.

Seriously? He videotaped an incident and got involved by calling the sheriff. There's been plenty of times that I've disagreed with Oak, but this time he did the right thing. He didn't "sit back and do nothing." Notifying the authorities is not sitting back and doing nothing, so I don't get the criticism. He took a proactive role, which is obviously more than a lot of others do. I'm glad he acted responsibly, and I hope that despite his disappointment with the sheriff's deputies that he would continue to be just as responsible. If that's not clear enough, irregardless of our many disagreements, I commend him for what he did.

Thank you, F-1.

To be honest, I did feel kind of bad that I didn't go out and try some of the judo I learned from a library book in the 5th grade. But, yeah, I think things are going to start getting really ugly if people just start combating property crime by taking matters into their own hands and not calling the police. That whole civilization thing. I happen to believe in it. Even still.

Gets was right that sometimes you have a light a fire under their collective asses to get them moving. His idea was a good one, but the whole system needs to work together.

There's a point in Broken Windows theory about minor property crime leading to greater ones since lack of enforcement on the small stuff leads to a perception of permission on the part of the violator/perpetrator. We don't have to agree with the entire theory to realize that parts of it make sense, and this is one of them. Putting this together with restorative justice (making the victim whole again) and you'll see some serious improvement.

Usually when someone tags property or steals election signs or vandalizes in some way, the response is there might be an arrest leading to a fine, unless it's severe, which results in jail. Nothing is done to help the victim, so it's a hassle for the victim to get involved if there's no benefit in it for him or her. What should happen instead is that the perp should be at least fined twice the cost of the crime, and that money (plus processing fees to the government entity) needs to repay the victim. If it's tagging, the tagger needs to buy paint and repaint the area he (they're usually males) tagged, then on top of that pay the victim twice the cost of labor and materials (ideally with an apology). That's restorative.

Police officers can be let down by the system too, which is why they don't push people to write complaints. If it's more trouble than it's worth it makes sense they're going to discourage involvement. The system needs to be changed first.

Following up on Gets's idea, you can go to city hall and push for changes in local laws. You can propose better laws. You can start petitions. I think as a liberal you can appreciate a restorative justice model that works to empower victims. Also learn about the local judges and help put in jurists that are fair. Just some ideas in keeping with the idea of civilization.

concerning citizens getting involed when a crime is committed, movie on Netflix about the 1964 murder of kitty Genovese who was stabbed to death outside her apartment, for years it was thought nobody called police, not true, 3 people called police, the killer stabbed the lady, she lied on the sidewalk, he had left and came back again,and finished her off,she screaming "ive'd been stabbed" over and over, the police arrived, but too late, much too late, so their official story was no one called, or came forward. good doc. made by her brother.

I had no idea who Kitty Genovese was until recently. Every now and then I'd search Amazon for books on the Genovese mafia family and books about Kitty Genovese would always show up in the search. Finally I just had to find out who she was and clicked on one of the links. I was floored. What a heart breaking story. I'll look for that documentary.

BC, you're right. Like many high profile news stories, that one has been misrepresented in the popular mind for decades. That's not surprising. There are probably still a whole lot of people who still believe that President Lincoln wrote the Gettysburg Address on the back of an envelope.