Our Melting Pot

I'd like to see how much of a melting pot we are here on this BB. Just out of curiosity, and for fun.

There's NO way I or anyone else can see what you answer, so please answer honestly.

Which of the following are you? Check all that apply!

And please, no bashing - don't ask, don't tell - etc... I just wanna see what's represented here.

You've taken a liking to the new "!" system, but it's a fantastic topic, nonetheless.

By the way, Oceania = Indonesia, Papua New Guinea, Australia, and New Zealand. So, you've basically put Oceania twice

Nice idea, I'm interested to see this. Everybody will say they're in the mafia, though...

-Penguin

PS: Is 153 classified as a "genius IQ"? You see, that's what I got about three weeks ago.

Interesting topic Geoff. Quite a melting pot already, and only 4 people have voted so far. I see we already have a nymphomaniac amongst us as well as 2 virgins. We have someone who does drugs, someone who smokes, and someone who chews. Only one of us believes in a Supreme Being, myself. This could get interesting.

^^by "Supreme Being, myself" I mean that I am the only one who believes in one, not that I am the Supreme Being.

The results of this poll may rival ....a Quinnipiac College poll! Will the results be used for some great marketing strategy? I have a feeling the melting part will be more like no-fat cheese when you try to make a cheeseburger - it doesn't melt. After a recent poll on the choice of underwear, I can see you determined that was not a valid category of question. Nonetheless, my day has been brightened. Thank you.

Boy, some tricky questions. But you should have appeased Turi and asked if anyone ever blew a goat! Just teasing Turi.

All that and he probably really only wanted the answer to the last one.

I believe I answered fairly. But I wanna know who are the people who've had sex with more than one partner at a time. I'm jealous.

Beth, you could never offend me. Bitch.

Very interesting poll JG, damn anonymity.

Here, here!

It would be very interesting to know how people did indeed vote and if they lied or not. Considering about 50% of the current daily posters are very young, I would doubt a virgin figure that was more than about 30-40%. Then again, maybe they just count their own hand as a start!

Bimbo Bitch, Bimbo Bitch..hahaha. Yes, I believe they should have names and graded like any term paper.

Here's my poll:

As of 11:10 AM on April 15th, we had 5 people who have had sex with more than one partner at a time, 6 females, and 4 nymphomaniacs. Anyone in all three categories?

Turi.

You say that like it's a bad thing.

People who know me, well... KNOW me.

No millionaires? Damn.

Anton - I guess by Oceana I was thinking those thousands of little islands, not the big ones. Genius IQ? I think that's 154, sorry bud (Just kidding - you made it)

MaryCas - Forgot about the underwear, sorry! Maybe I'll do another 75 questions later

Beth - Nah, that last question was because I couldn't think of another one fast enough

Turi - You can do anything if you pay enough

LDV - We gotta hook up

JG - you specifically said "no details" so I am just abiding by the rules.

But c'mon, I am 38 years old AND I have been to college. Yeah, I've done/seen some things

Hook up with me only if you dare. I'm curious as to YOUR stories!!

some here do drugs and four members are alchoholic, i have one in mind. (j/k)

GoodFella

Let's just say I'm one of those making Turi jealous

Great me too!! <sticking tongue out at Turi>

Haha good JG! One less thing I gotta teach ya!

Geoff - this is a wonderful topic, absolutely brilliant. Still no millionaires voting yet? Don't worry - CamDon is yet to vote....

9 of us virgins
1 of us hackers
1 of us bisexual
1 of us felons
4 of us do drugs
5 of us nymphomaniacs
2 of us still waiting to go through puberty (does it count if you're already in it?)
28 of us consider ourselves intelligent
2 of us are bald (Beth E)
9 of us think People are generally bad
2 of us have been with hookers
3 of us have genius IQs
7 lucky bastards have had sex with more than one person at a time
6 of us are idiots in general
2 of us have saved someone elses lives
15 of us speak more than one language
5 of us have English as their second language

Geoff, this is really interesting...

...I just WISH it wasn't anonymous.

-Penguin

Don't bash masturbation, I have sex with someone I love.

(I think it was Seinfield who said that)

what is the I.Q score range for genius level anyways?

"It has been said that a 140 IQ is a "genius" score, however there is no definition, as such, ... about "genius." Neither is there an IQ score ranked as "genius"... Genius may be in the eye of the beholder. Furthermore, a true genius may not score particularly well on a standard group IQ test... And really, those who are what we may call a genius don't need a score to prove it.""

[ more ]

Meh, all that IQ stuff is rubbish anyway. Intelligence is mostly INSTINCTIVE. Still, I'll keep my genius IQ!

-Penguin

Ok...and WHERE am I bald at. I'm no Sinead O'Connor.

Hmmmmmm.....that leaves out the head.

This is like an episode of Blackadder - some of the wit coming from the people on here is unbelievably funny. Are you all real people?

-Penguin

Beth, I was just going to ask that about the bald thing Maybe you need to answer the one about wearing a wig????

I'd be most interested in some of the answers from the part 2 poll, but I wonder who the 2 bisexual ones are on here - AND NO, not BethE and LDV collectively. You KNOW that's what they are thinking....

I dont think a random experience or two do a bisexual make.....

I think the term is "bi curious". Never had a FFM, so can't go there either.

You just need to find the right guy....

If that means Female/Female/Male, then...

Right SC. Our friend Anton must be on drugs. What makes you think I want to revert back to being 12. I believe a nicely manicured, not pruned bush attracts company.

Beth, that last comment was greatly appreciated!

The mental image will be ingrained in my head forever!

Hate to disappoint you Beth, but I am not on drugs. I have never even taken drugs.

No, I'm just weird.

-Penguin

Hey Boss, you aren't really collecting marketing data, with a few jokes thrown in, are you?

There's no spot for Che loving, Malcolm quoting, paranoid, ex-lovers of Angela Davis and Pam Grier!!!

It's just for fun, BK... you should know me better than that

Boss you skipped the word "Paranoid"!

And I do know you better than that. If I thought it was true I wouldn't joke about it. PEACE!

Heh-heh, well, I answered yes for being on television in reagards to being on out local community channel as a young kid during Christmas time. I also answered yes to knowing a second language which could be seen as far-fetched as I'm currentely learning Spanish and probably shouldn't be considered some vocal genious a it at least yet.

It was Woody Allen as Alvy Singer in Annie Hall who said "Hey, don't bash masturbation. That's sex with somebody I love." Great line.

Ahh, yes, thanks. Man, that's a great movie. Woody Allen's a genius

Nice poll Geoff!! I notice most are dark haired, normal looking, intelligent people!! Sounds like us don't ya think?

I don't know about everyone else, but I answered honestly. Btw, we have one millionaire among us?? If you're a male, will you marry me???


TIS

Who's Bisexual? Fess Up Lombardi.

Whos the M.D.?

theres nothing wrong with being bisexual.................. if your a girl!

Yes there is something wrong with it. Homosexuality is a sin and it is sick. Only a guy would enjoy watching such perversion.

having sex before marriage is a sin also.

Shut up ShortCake. Seriously that is a fucked up thing to say. You have no idea what you're talking about. How dare you say that shit about homosexuals.

Fuck you. Stop being a homophobe. I hate homophobes.



-Penguin

That is a seriously backward way of thinking...It's strange to think people still think like that.

What kind of hypocrite are you, ShortCake? If I can remember, you were helping me fend off Vercetti when he was bashing homosexuals -- saying it was wrong to bash. Someone is contradicting themselves.

The thing is that ShortCake has no idea what she's talking about, thereforth getting herself into shit. But yeah, I do remember that. ShortCake defended Vercetti when HE was spouting shit about it.

This is fucked up. ShortCake; you are a fool.

Sorry to not come up with a better argument here, but what more is there to say?

-Penguin

Exactly, no offence SC2, bu do you pick what are sins yourself instead of following the acual religion? Especially at your rate, 14 times a day for 10 days? Shit, Hugh Hefner eat your heart out! BTW SC2, you and I both agree that adultery is a sin, right? Well, according to the AOL dictionary, fornication is also a form of adultery.

Off subject -- Vercetti! Very, very nice job. I've noticed you've not been posting nearly as much as before! I applaud your gratitude!

Yes, sir, Anton. SCake was telling DV how he's wrong to say homosexuality is a sin, and saying it isn't right to bash them; that it's not sick, because it's their choice. Whoa, wait, what's this? "Homosexuality is a sin and it is sick!" Can someone say hypocrite? Can someone say contradict? Thank you!

Sorry, SCake... You know you're my friend and eall... But you shouldn't get involved in this kinda of stuff when you're a novice with it. You make yourself look bad, to say that least. O_O

Vercetti, as much as I disagree with the whole system, you have an incredibly valid point.

I see something in you which is interesting. YOU ACTUALLY CAME UP WITH A VALID POINT WHICH IS THEREFORTH DAMAGING TO THE OPPONENT WHICH GAINS MY RESPECT!

I don't give a shit about social status, but I must say that you are so right there.

So right.

-Penguin

dictionary.com perhaps?

I'm hurt, DV. You didn't notice my act of gratitude towards you after all my commence of hate towards you? Thanks.

DV with a valid point? Well, holy dog shit! Nice work. But, it's not too hard to prove someone wrong when they are contradicting themselves, though. O_O

SCake did say that? Well, SC2, read the Bible, Romans: 1: 20 - 30.

there you will find how it is immoral for homosexuals or lesbians, I'm sure this is not exactly helping this discussion, but just for the reference.

NOTE: This is not ment to be an anti-gay post.

EDIT: thats because I just read it after posted. Thanks, I am acually getting a little bit bored of this BB (no offence JG ) I just find many of the topics uninteresting to me.

5{is so wrong with fornication? Seriously, it's the act of reproduction, and an act of fun...and exercise according to Capo de la Cosa Nostra.

That is really stupid. Although you are right when you say ShortCake is simply going against her own word with this shit...fornication is a sin? Fuck you and fuck whoever made up that stupid "rule".
I fart on his grave.

-Penguin

EDIT: Lombardi, it may be easy to do that when someone contradicts themselves, but Vercetti did it well. That I applaude.

what flew up your ass today? It's my belief as a Christian. So you fart on heaven?

Vercetti; let me ask you something. If God dislikes homosexuality, then puts them on this Earth, then God is contradicting himself, isn't he?

And if it must be, then yes. I fart on heaven...or more I fart on the ancient Jewish writer who wrote it...whether it's true or not.

-Penguin

So, you're gonna live the rest of your life not doing shit because the "Bible" says you can't? That's insensate! Humans and dolphins are the only two species who have sex for pleasure, and I say to use it as an advantage. We won't be condemned to hell for committing some sins! That's what the confession booth is for, to confess yours sins. And God forgives all, right? Oh, that's right... You've NEVER sinned in your life? I doubt that. Saying fornication or homosexuality is wrong because it's a sin is STUPID because you're being a hypocrite yourself... Because I'm SURE you've committed some sort of sin in your life.

Same goes for you, SCake. You're "committing adultery" by "committing fornication" so why is homosexuality "sick" and "wrong" for being a sin? If you're gonna go by the Bible and not do things because they are sins, then stop "sinning" about other things.

Anton, God gives us something called "Free Will." Do you believe predestination? Nobody is born gay unless it is a mental disorder, otherwise its their choice if they find love in men; women; or both. And God doesn't dislike the person, He dislikes the person's actions. BTW, I wasn't meaning that as an antigay post, I was just posting it for SC2 to take notice.

Tony, I never said nobody is perfect. And there are situations that excuse the sin. And there are two sins, viial(sp?) and mortal. Mortal sins get you to hell. Vinial do not. Remember, it depends on the type, and to my knowledge, I do not think it is a mortal sin (pleasure sex) although I could be wrong, but thats "Invincible Ignorance" because I do not know if it is a mortal sin so it doesn't apply.

Homosexuality is a natural thing.

Fornication is a natural (and vital) thing.

God created the universe.

God created homosexuality.

God created fornication.

God thereforth, agrees with fornication and homosexuality, unless the old Jewish writer was a homophobe so he lied.

Righty right?

Righty right.

-Penguin

Well, if God gives us to right to free will, he must be contradicting himself by saying homosexuality and fornication is a sin.

Oh so it's a mental disorder now? God still created everything, I believe, so homosexuality is still a form of sexuality!!! God created everything, so thereforth homosexuals were part of Gods "plan", so it is natural.

God, it's natural anyway.

-Penguin

No He isn't. Some people say God dpesn't exist because of violence. But thats the thing, God gives us free will and He wants us to follow Him, but when people use their free will for evil such as murder or whatever, then it is too bad. Like Friedrich Nietzsche, he said that "God was dead" because of the violence in the world.

EDIT: Anton, I did not say it was a mental disorder, I said nobody is born that way unless it is a result of a mental disorder. And homosexuals have not been around forever, God didn't make them, it is just a way some people love. Porn, God did not make it, why? Because these magazines did not exist, WE made them. Sure, they some from things God did make, but that doesn't mean a thing.

But, choosing your sexuality is NOT, I repeat... IS FUCKING NOT using it with evil. It's free will, and it's used for your own pleasure, which does no harm to others. So how is it a sin if God created these homosexuals... And let's them do as they will with their free will? Contradictions, my friend!

Anton, how is it vital? It is not. It is just something people have done because they don't want to get married, or just have sex for pleasure or just to be "cool." Sure, if your married, it probably is not bad although I have been taught differ, but your married so I am going to say it is not bad.

So people who have sex for pleasure are doing it to be cool? What a crock of shit.

Reply to my above post. Reply to more than one at a time.

I did,

Tony, where have you EVER been? Its on the news all the time how teens especially are getting laid because they either do it for pleasure or they think that losing your virginity is some kind of accomplishment. And all these teen mothers who have ruined their life on it and in many cases murder their children or child! I am just discusted when I hear about this shit on the news, or even those crappy weekday talk shows.
Many teens find it "cool" until they have one in the oven and they cannot support the baby and they either abort it or living off their parents wasting their money.

Yeah, some of them. The morons, the ones who think they have something to prove. But the adults who are not married; about 18, 19, 20... Around there... DO IT FOR PLEASURE. That's an advantage of sex. That doesn't mean you're trying to be cool!

How is it vital? What the hell do you mean how is fornication vital? How else do we continue the human race???

Hate to be cheesey, but fornication is an act of love between two or more people. Some of it is used for other than love, and that's okay too, because for gods sake, it's their free will, there's nothing wrong with it! Love is a strong thing, and sex is usually used as an act of love.

Do it to be cool? Nahh...as a virgin myself, I'm not so educated on the act itself, but I know for sure that there's nothing wrong with it.

Seriously man...

-Penguin

Whatsmore, wouldn't you rather a whole lot of people getting pleasure than a whole lot of people getting pain?

-Penguin

Sure, in many cases it is an act of love, but in most cases it is an act of vulgar love. Lust is not love, but just booty call. Sure, I really don't care if they are in love but you know, hormones are bastards. Pain? No, of course your going to enjoy it when you do it, what? Are there people who hate it?(well maybe) but IMHO, sex is for reproduction, taking pleasure while that is not bad imo, but just doing it for the pleasure and no care about reproduction, then its meaningless.

Tony, pleasure as lovg as it doesn't hurt anybody? Are you not the one who said that masturbation is for weak minded people? Well its the same thing, an act of pleasure. I will go no further because I do not know for sure if you did say that...

You've said on here you've fantasized about class mates or something. So you were "horny", and thinking about "vulgar acts of love" or "booty calls?!" That's insensate! You're being stupid, man, really.

There's nothing wrong with having sex for pleasure. Hell, when we used to talk on AIM, you used to talk about how hot women were all the time. You're telling me you'd never have sex with one for pleasure?! Please! I'm sure you've committed sins in your life, so stop contradicting yourself about not committing fornication or sex for pleasure because it's a sin.

Masterbation is a weaker form of sex. No, it isn't sex... But it's a very weak form of the same pleasure. Why do that when you can have sex with a female that you love for pleasure? Having sex with someone you don't love, I don't agree with, in MOST situations. Masterbation is for pleasure, strictly, and without a loved one, which I find stupid. To me. Not to others? Fine. I do find it dumb. Pleasure should come from someone you love, and not from your hand because your hormones are raging.

If i am going to have intercourse, its in marrige. BTW, I never said that, I said that kids in MY class were fantisizing about that. And sure, I do appreciate beauty, ex. celebrities and others. But don't image screwing them. Damn, now I think this thread will be locked, Ugh. I am tired of this, if you guys have anything else, IM me at my Vercetti aim name, not Scarface.

EDIT: SC2, pleave don't reply to me saying "You sound stupid!" etc. Talk to me on aim or PM if you have an discussion.

So you'd never have sex with a girlfriend just for pleasure? That still sounds wrong; because I know you would.

Okay, though. End of discussion.

Wait, one more thing Al, no I would not. First I would find one I TRUELY loved. Then marrige. Then there you go. And my type is not just physical beauty, its emotional beauty. I do not care if you are talking about the most beautiful women EVER, if she is a snob or bitch, then its NO. the end...

But, my point... What if you're not ready for marriage? You don't have the money, you can't get it set up, etc. So... You won't have sex with a girlfriend of five years or more or something if she wanted some pleasure? That's pretty stupid, but yeah.

Let's end it.

Wow, a person who will stick to their guns and values and will not back down. THAT I like.

DV, I like you, man.

Well, damn computer stuffed up, but that was interesting.

ShortCake, I would absolutely LOVE to hear your views - after all, you are a homophobe.

JoltinJoe, I firmly believe that what Vercetti is saying is ridiculous, but yes, he still believes firmly in it - even though it's wrong.

-Penguin

Vercetti is right, he has this thing called..... religion. I believe in what vercetti is saying, im practicing the same thing myself. He has diffrent values and morals set for himself. he is what i would a ummmm... christian. He has been taught as it says in the Bible premaritial sex is wrong. good job vercetti.

Wow, so many posts to reply to this morning before I go to a fucking FUNERAL.

I guess we have found our bisexual...Anton. Am I right?
You can't sit there and tell me that my opinions and views on different things are wrong. I think you are wrong. It says in the BIBLE that homosexuality is a sin. GOD did not create homosexuality. It is a sin. Why would GOD create a sin if he strictly forbids it?? The devil created it. God destroyed a whole city because of homosexuality that was being practiced. I understand you are an atheist, Anton, but I am not. I am a Christian and I believe in GOD. If GOD wanted gays and lesbians(there is no difference) then he would have created ADAM & STEVE instead of ADAM & EVE.

Vercetti--I said I stayed with my boyfriend for 10 days and 1 of those days we had sex 14 times. Not every single day. I don't think that would have even been possible. I wouldn't have been able to walk.


Lombardi-- I'm your 'friend and all' ? You mean I WAS your friend, seeing as how every time I say something you badger me. I'm all up for being friends, but you hardly seem very friendly towards ol' Shortcake lately.


Omnipotent--For some reason I am not going to even attempt a comment for you. Seems that I have a soft spot for you. Go figure?!

I am a virgin..but I'm 13, so no suprise there.
I have light hair and live in North America and I play an insturment.. yeah.

I don't badger you. Sorry if it seems like, but you just seem to stick your nose in places where you're vulnerable, and easy to get nailed. You said that there was nothing wrong with homosexuality, and that shit with the Bible saying it was wrong was stupid or something... Then you say otherwise? That's just hypocritical.

And saying that the devil created homosexuality is wrong beyond words. God created EVERYTHING on Earth. He created humans, and there are humans that are homosexual... So God created them. If you're to say every homosexual was created by the devil, that's just sickening to hear. It's called homophobic.

SCake, the devil did not create homos. But, people are not born gay. The first humans on earth were straight, not gay. God doesn't create homosexuality, people who are did. It's OUR choice as free (for the most part) people. There is not a soul on earth born gay. Hell, I do not even think any are even born straight, or gay. And SCake, even so, 14 times in one fuckin day? PUT HIS SNAKE BACK IN THE CAGE. thank you.

You wouldn't know if you were heterosexual or homosexual until your hormones have completely developed. But, still, saying that the devil created homosexuals is wrong beyond belief; and makes me sick.

Dont talk about God saying Homosexuality being a sin and then talk sinning 14 times in one day! Because God also says premaritual sex is a sin. Whats your donomination?

What? Well, actually, I'm not bisexual - although there is nothing wrong with it. Where did you get this idea? Because I'm defending homosexuals? Yeah...you know what you people are called? Bigots. If I ever fucking hear someone say that homosexuals were created by Satan then what in the fucking hell do you expect? Scake, is it not true that the Bible gives us free will? If your "God" is decent at all then let people do what they fucking want as long as it isn't harming anybody? How are homosexuals harming you? Now there's a question; "because they stand for Satan", "because God hates them"? Sorry ShortCake, but that is a bigoted, disgusting, pathetic thing and you deserve everything you get. You ask nearly every fucking person on this BB if they think that homosexuality is a sin.

OKAY EVERYBODY? HERE'S A POLL AND I WOULD LIKE YOU TO ANSWER IT:

Is homosexuality an evil act created by Satan?

Yes or No?

Scake, this is the kind of thing that I hate the most from people. What you said and are saying is a sick and all-to-real portrayal of how much hate is in this world. You make me sick ShortCake. Vercetti and OS are right. Doesn't matter if you have sex 1 or 15 times a day, it's still a sin that you're commiting. And you're bashing homosexuals...for what? For living, for doing what is in their nature? For being who they are??? No, ShortCake, your argument has no valid point, I'm afraid. Ask anyone. Homosexuals cause far less problems than people like you. It's the truth.

You are really pathetic ShortCake. I am not surprised to hear it from you. I thought you had some good in you, but you're just a bigot and it's people like you who cause the suffering of so many, no matter how small or big the suffering is.

I'm sorry but I cannot tolerate bigotry.

-Penguin

yes. I dont think homosexuality in itself is a sin, just the act of it. that my not make a whole lot of since, but if homosexuality is in the genes than it cant be wrong for someone to be gay. I feel its like, this is a bad example but its late and all i can think of: You can be born a crazy murderer and thats not wrong but if act upon it and murder someone than yeah its wrong.
God doesnt hate gays. I am not one to say gays are going to heaven or not i feel you can be gay and have a close relationship with God. Heck if some priests can go without a woman a gay can go w/o a man.

This is quite a personal poll guys. Do not get upset if people voice their opinions and how they feel, telling them they are wrong. Polls like this are very problematic.


PS - Dont reply to this, just words of wisdom.

DonFerro, I understand completely where you're coming from. I will attempt to water down my post before Geoff gets to it. I just believe that what Scake said was inexcusable.

-Penguin

EXACTLY OS! You hit the nail on the head that time. Do I think it is a sin? Yes. Do I think Lucifer created homosexuality? No. However, if one is born crazy, then it is ok because the person is ignorant of the actions.

No, he didn't hit the nail on the head. It's still disrespectful and doesn't make sense.

If you're homosexual, the act IS BEING homosexual. That "murderer" example was inadequate. If you're a murderer, or "crazy killer", the act is KILLING people. That's a wrong doing, a sin. If you're homosexual... There's no act... The act, if any, IS BEING a homosexual. So, basically, you're just saying homosexuality is wrong in different words.

Plus, why would God see homosexuality as a sin? That's like saying if you have long hair, it's a sin; if you have short hair, you're a sin; if you're white, it's a sin; if you're black, it's a sin. God gave us the right to FREE WILL. So this whole arguement with it being a sin is a CONTRADICTION. You're just saying this 'cause you're not homosexual and it's something you're not. You just can't except something that you don't respect or agree with. There's a term for that: homophobic.

You just seem to be too ignorant, immature, and frightened to except something you're not and don't agree with.

And I'm not directing this towards you, OS, or you, DV. This is directed towards ANYONE who used this "sin" front as an excuse to shun homosexuality.

I know this was not directed to me, but I do not shun them, but I do consider it a sin and I do believe what the Bible tells me.

I just said: you use the Bible as an a front for your excuse as to why you disagree with homosexuality... When the truth is, you're just not mature enough to except something you're not.

Haven't you learned yet that the Bible is a contradiction in most ways?

Hrmph.

It's not that I disagree because its something I am not. I agree with many things I am not.

Homosexuality seems to be different in your eyes.

I wonder who the other "real" hackers are

I watched a TV programme on genetics (OK I'm nerdy like that ) they were pretty sure they had discovered a 'homosexual gene'.
In the future they surmised, they could 'remove' this gene,same as they could hopefully remove other genes to eradicate birth defects, illness etc hence, no homosexuality.
The homosexuals were very aggrieved by this, said it offended their rights to be what they 'were'.
I have no problem with homosexuals, straights or bi-sexuals. I base my opinions of people on the way they treat me or my family, nothing else.
But, really, we dont design ourselves. so, a homosexual gene must be God given if your a religeous person??

FH

FH!!! I LOVE YOU!!!

Exactly. You, my friend, have hit the nail on the head. God gave us free will, God created us... So, if the Bible says that it's a sin, but also gives us free will... Isn't that a CONTRADICTION? And even so, if it's genetic, GOD DID IT. So why'd he shun those who he made that way? I am Catholic, and I believe in God, but I'm really not religious... Because, I have now seen how contradictionary the Bible truely is.

I doubt it, sorry, but I do. I too have heard of this, but they haven't said yet that it is true. Plus, I believe [and this is non-religion related here] that if your gay or straight, its YOUR choice. Unless you have a deficit in your mind that causes it.

NO, NO. That's where you're wrong. If you're homosexual(please use this term rather than "gay") you can't go heterosexual. It's impossible to just be homosexual... And say "hey, I think I'm gonna go straight." IMPOSSIBLE. This is why I think it can be a gene, but it's somewhat of a choice; because you can keep it to yourself and just not go with guys or girls... Or choose to use your free will that GOD gives you... But then shuns you if you use it. (CONTRADICTIONS!!!)

I still do not think it is a gene, but after giving it thought, I think that how the parents raise a child has a MASSIVE affect. It all depends on how they raise you even thought that dosen't mean that you are gonna be what they want.

just my 2 cents

Maybe so. But, that's contradicting yourself, or rather, I should say the Bible is. How can it be a sin if you're not the one who has CONTROL of it? My, my, my...

No, because I said that it doesn't always work because you almost always grow up with knowledge outside of it. If your parents said all your life that homosexual is the right one, eventually you will find out that it is wrong because men go with women to have a family. The only really good thing I find in homosexual men or women is that they often adopt the kids that would have had no families.

Idiot.

What do you mean it's wrong? There's NOTHING WRONG with homosexuality! Why can't you see that? They are people just like you and me! Just because they prefer the same sex, is no reason to say they're wrong. It's their free will, and they can't fucking help it. No matter how much KNOWLEDGE they attain, they can't CHANGE THEMSELVES. You cannot turn a homosexual into a heterosexual, it's impossible. And why do it. if they miraculously could, if they enjoy it? It's not right, or wrong. It's what they prefer. Let them be.

When I say "wrong" I mean that men do not get men pregnant likewise with women and women. Men get women pregnant. And I am not shunning them and saying they are not people. I just find it wrong for the reason stated above. Men get women pregnant.

That's not what you were saying before. Before you were saying homosexuality is WRONG and SICK because the Bible says so. Are you gonna live your whole life by the Bible? That's rather sad.

Not sad for me. I live my life that way. Sure I cannot live without sin but hey, nobody is perfect. Sad? Not in the slightest bit. Especially since I will be in paradise after I go 6 feet under.

So, anyone who commits a sin in their life will go to hell? Not really. You don't have to live your life by the Bible to go to heaven. I just commit different sins... Than you. God forgives everyone, right?

When did I say that? Mortal sins get you to hell. Vinial do not. period.

Doesn't the Bible say God forgives all? Oh, no... But, then he'll send you to hell for doing what he TELLS YOU TO DO -- FREE WILL! Another contradiction.

Nope, it means He forgives you when you are TRUELY sorry for the sin.

How can you be sorry for something you're doing with your free will, which he tells you to use? CONTRADICTION.

Wrong again. Free Will means He will not stop you by force. But there are conciquences. I think of life as a test. Hell, life IS a test.

Wrong again? Hah... Funny, 'cause I haven't been wrong yet.

The Bible is a contradiction. Although I believe in God... I do not agree with many things he says. It's bullshit to be FORCED to believe in what he says, when you don't, or else you'll be damned to hell. That's bullshit.

Haven't been wrong yet? I have translated the meaning of the "contradictions" you have thrown at me.

Yeah, in one or two sentences in which I turned back around at you with more sensate meanings. You just went by the Bible, in which you force yourself to believe, while I go by my own own ways -- FREE WILL.

But, I'm not gonna sit at my computer all day and argue with you. We have opinions, and they differ, so why argue over it? Let's stop, so we don't clutter Geoff's board. Meaning NO REPLIES.

And Geoff, if you read this, we weren't "flaming" or fighting. We were debating. And who doesn't enjoy a good debate?

Tootles.

How, intelligent. Allowing a being that no one has ever seen, or has any physical proof for; to dictate: actions, words, thoughts, lifestyles, sexual preferences, and finance.

Unless, I am really wrong and learnt nothing when; I was a Chirstian: I always believed; Christianity was about acceptance. Not judging, after all the bible itself warns about skimming judgement on others.

I. Myself am not a homosexual nor a bisexual. I; however have many friends who are. I look at them no different because of a difference in a specific preference. Why; would I do that? I might be an asshole, piece of shit in the eyes of most, but one thing; I am not is close-minded nor narrow-sighted.

Vercetti. What do you deem wrong about homosexuality? War, greed, hunger, and poverty will eventually cause a decline in the amount of human beings in existence; so I'll spare you that argument. A bad thing? Not specifically. Ignorance stacked that high is; fucking depressing. Humans are supposed to fucking progress as time forges on difficutly; justly or unjustly yet; uncontrollably.

If god destroyed a town, village, or city simply because of what he adjudged wrong. He must have been a great guy; huh? Does that make you want to kiss his ass? He must be some great being. Pretty cool too. Assuming he exists of course.

Guineapig.

Fuck all this talk of homosexuals. I want to know who here had sex with an animal, and is it available for parties.

Beth, do human animals count?

They're the best kind. Just feed them and fuck! In no particular order.

I never said He destroyed a town. SCake said that and I never heard of it. SCake, where does it say this?

My God flooded the Middle East for 40 days. He killed lots of people and animals. Yet, I still fully believe in him, and worship him.

[/QB][/QUOTE]Exactly. You, my friend, have hit the nail on the head. God gave us free will, God created us... So, if the Bible says that it's a sin, but also gives us free will... Isn't that a CONTRADICTION? And even so, if it's genetic, GOD DID IT. So why'd he shun those who he made that way? I am Catholic, and I believe in God, but I'm really not religious... Because, I have now seen how contradictionary the Bible truely is. [/QB][/QUOTE]

I dont think u can call yourself a catholic if you dont believe what they teach. The bible is not contradictory. God gave us a free will so we can choose right or wrong not so we can do whatever we want and get away with it. So it seems like you are saying we could kill but since we have a free will its ok.

Catholic Teachings and Homosexuality

http://www.rcpolitics.org.uk/teachings/homosexuality.htm

Homosexuality
A distinction must be made between tendency and act. Having a tendency or predisposition to behave in a certain way does not justify giving expression to it. For example, anger: I am not entitled to vent my anger as and when I please simply because I have that tendency. The same principle applies to homosexual sex.

Homosexual sex can never be procreative. Sex which divorces the loving, affirmative aspect from the procreative aspect converts such intercourse into an end in itself. In this respect, the Church does not apply different standards to single people of either sexual orientation: The natural context
for sex is within marriage, always open to new life.

One can love another person of the same sex very deeply without having sex; in fact, there are many ways of expressing one's love that do not involve sex at all. Celibacy, for instance, calls both homosexuals and heterosexuals to a life of chastity. Not having sex does not lead to an inferior quality of life.

One of the characteristics of the emergence of 'gay culture' has been the encouragement of the high level of promiscuity which, for various reasons, is a feature of male homosexuality the world over. Long-term, stable and single partner homosexual partnerships, although they do exist, are comparatively rare: 74% of male homosexuals reported having more than 100 partners during their lifetime, 65% reported having sex only once with more than half their partners, 28% reported having more than 1000 partners, 10% of homosexuals and 28% of lesbians claim to be quasi married.(cf Bell & Weinberg, Homosexualities: A Study of Diversity among Men and Women, New York: Simon & Schuster, 1978: 308, 346)

In Denmark a form of homosexual marriage has been legalised since 1989. By 1995, fewer than 5% of Danish homosexuals had married and 28% of these ³marriages² had already ended in ³divorce² or death (Wockner; Advocate; 726 4 Feb. 1997: 26)

Human beings are not defined by their sexual orientation. Homosexual people, as human beings, have the same rights as others - including that of not being treated in a manner which offends their personal dignity.

The Church is compassionate to people with this tendency and recognises the considerable numbers who struggle to come to terms with it. She seeks to bring the person to a greater fulfilment and healing, and a more profound understanding of the self. ³Homosexual activity prevents one's own fulfilment and happiness by acting contrary to the creative wisdom of God. The Church, in rejecting erroneous opinions regarding homosexuality, does not limit but rather defends personal freedom and dignity realistically and authentically understood.² (Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, Letter to the Bishops of the Catholic Church on the Pastoral Care of Homosexual Persons, 1986)

GP -- VERY GOOD! You are excellent. That post pretty much sums up my entire beliefs.

OS -- You prove your idiocy every time you post. My view is that I can be Catholic, and believe in God, but not go by EVERYTHING the Bible says. I can have my own views and not be a slave to the Bible -- guess what that's called? FREE WILL... Just like God says. Did you comprehend when I said that earlier? I guess not.

And here you go again saying homosexuality is wrong. I already explained myself about this about a hundred times. There's NOTHING WRONG WITH IT. Treat people with a little more respect. We can choose to do whatever we'd like.

And no, you can't go out and kill someone because of free will. If you were serious about that, you're truely stupid. If you were being sarcastic -- that was equally as stupid. If you use your free will to KILL someone, and take a life, and CAUSE HARM to someone, that's when it's wrong. But homosexuality doesn't hurt anyone.

JJ -- I'm not even gonna read that. I'm sick of all this "homosexuality is wrong" Bible bullshit.

Every time you post you prove your arrogance. I dont know what kind of God you have but it is not the God catholics or any other christian has. There are certain things you must be believe to be a catholic and other donomination. What have i said thats so stupid? It is the same idea to what you said exaggerated but the same idea. Maybe porn would be a better example, unless of course you also think thats ok. I went to catholic school and learned alot about their beliefs and you have not shown any of it. Just because you may of gone to that church once doesnt mean that you are one.

I never said He destroyed a town. SCake said that and I never heard of it. SCake, where does it say this?

Vercetti said: ^

I never directed that particular comment at you? Do you notice the space between the posted thoughts? Try Genisis or Exodus Vercetti. I'm sure you'll find it there.

God, also rained fire from the sky to destroy two villages. Killed the first born of every non-hebrew family or any family who hadn't any lamb blood on their door.

JoltinJoe said the follwoing:
"My God flooded the Middle East for 40 days. He killed lots of people and animals. Yet, I still fully believe in him, and worship him."

Joke? If not, it shows; the human being you are and your intelligence level. Would you worship him if he burnt your family and flooded your house? If not, you're selfish, and that's also a sin. According to the bible a sin is a sin and that would be as wrong as condemning homosexuality, or what you so fear, being a homosexual or a bisexual.

Guineapig.

I was reluctant to read that article, but it's actually fairly compassionate. So much for the fire and brimstones, huh, Vercetti?

I guess that's irrelevant, as I and my family do our best to be holy and try to be the best people we can be.

Geoff, I thought the same thing. I'm a Catholic, and I don't have a problem with homosexuals at all.

EDIT- GP, it doesn't just show what kind of a person I am, it shows what kind of people ALL Christians, or any other group who believes that is.

This stuff is getting way off topic from the poll, but it's an interesting debate. However, since it's a religous debate, obviously, it'll never be resolved with one side saying "yeah, you're right, I never thought of that."

Vercetti et al. should be commended on their faith. I'm Christian, too (raised Catholic). However, what I don't like about some Christians is their judgement of others. Or telling people they're going to Hell for their actions.

WTF difference does it make to you what someone else wants or needs to do? How does it effect you, personally? What do you care if someone you don't even know goes to Hell? Your arguements/debates will not change anyone, so it's a waste of time.

Interesting, yes, but a waste of time.

But let me, too, waste a little space on this. Why the hell not?

From what I understand, I'm pretty sure a homosexual know's he's gay (an acceptible term, AL) very early in life. He or she may not comprehend what it means, but he/she may simply feel differently towards males and females. I would imagine it is a mixuture between nature and nurture, like pretty much everything else. It'd really be interesting to find out if there are known studies on this, where they've found pairs of twins with one being gay and the other not. That would be interesting as nature AND nurture would be the same, if they grew up together.

As a result (and probable) mixture of nature (born that way) and nurture (raised in a way that would make you more disposed to it), I don't see much "free will" involved in homosexuality. Why? Because it's probaby not a choice. People don't choose to be straight, and people don't choose to be gay. They just are one or the other, or both.

Is it a sin? Yeah, probably. So is masturbation, and 61% of the people here admit to doing that (and probably another 30% lied). Are masturbators going to Hell? I sure hope nope!

I believe in God. And I believe He is very forgiving. The man crucified beside him confessed to Jesus on the cross next to him, and he was forgiven and he went to Heaven. The other didn't, and he went to Hell. So that story goes, anyway.

Sure, God is not necessarily happy with promiscuity and orgies, etc. That's why he destroyed the two cities of Sodom and Gomorrah, because they'd have non-stop orgies (gay and straight, I'd imagine), even after knowing God's teachings. Now, luckily things aren't as bad these days (and hell, it may just be a parable anyway), since this was before Jesus' time, and He's forgiven us, and does forgive us, for our sins.

I don't want to preach here, or I'll sound like Vercetti. And I hate people who preach, so I won't. It doesn't change anyone's opinions. Just like this reply, it won't change anyone's opinions.

So I'll just leave it at this: Respect your neighbors for their differences. The differences in this word, be they age, gender, race, sexual preference, culture, whatever, are what makes this world so wonderful. And it's obviously the reason this poll was called the "Melting Pot" - because we're all different, and none better than another.

Amen.

EDIT- GP, it doesn't just show what kind of a person I am, it shows what kind of people ALL Christians, or any other group who believes that is.

^ No, it doesn't only show what kind of person you are but possibly what you are, and what you feel. There are different levels of believing something. Some Christians as it has been often seen here in religous debates may disagree with some beliefs of the church.

I'm sorry I forgot the story but I am very tired today. Lets put this for it. The Bible

BIBLE = written by followers and friends of JESUS CHRIST.

JESUS CHRIST = GOD in the form of human.

Now if you believe in God, why do you have no care for everything He wants? Because it makes you feel like a slave? No. Not a day in my life have I felt restricted. I feel very good that I have been given life. He gave usl ife, everything we have and we cannot just obey [for those who believe] 10 commandments? Sure, some have more meaning that you must think about ex.

5. "Thou shalt not kill." - this commandment obviously means do not murder, BUT it also means do not kill one's spirit. [making fun of one, etc.]. But do not tell me, "Your discriminating gays and lesbians." Because I am not doing that.

I denounce homosexuality whether its men or women doing it. I do not denounce the person committing it. Hell, I know a few gays and I do not isolate myself from them or make fun of them, but I do not find what they are doing wrong. PERIOD. I feel I have gotten everything I had to say said.

Now THAT is better, Vercetti... you not finding what they are doing to be wrong. Cool. There's hope for you yet!

P.S. Thou shalt not covet thy same-sex neighbor is not one of the Ten Commandments...

I just skimmed through the dozens of posts that have been, err, posted, since I last read from this site.

Anton--To You I scream 'IDIOT'. I'm sorry, but you are the biggest dumbass I've ever heard of. You totally believe in freedom of speech when it applies to you, but the moment someone disagrees with you, you shout slander at them and tell them how horribly wrong they are. I think I'm right, and, I am. I have my proof. End of Story.


Lombardi--You're cute and all, but you made me mad. Same applies for you, that I said for Anton.
Freedom Of Speech until someone disagrees.

Vercetti--Um, yeah, you agreed with me for the most part, so you're still cool.

Homosexual Gene? What Darwin Theory-Believin'-dumbass came up with that one? Ha Ha...what a crock of shit.

5. "Thou shalt not kill." - this commandment obviously means do not murder, BUT it also means do not kill one's spirit. [making fun of one, etc.]. But do not tell me, "Your discriminating gays and lesbians." Because I am not doing that.

^ Taken out of Vercetti's previous post.

Where the fuck did you get that interpretation of "thou shalt not kill"?

A spirit lives inside the soul, and the soul can never be killed supposedly.

Killing ones spirit. This has acually happened to me. I used to be picked on when I was younger and I hated it and it made me think I was the problem. I used to acually hate myself and my spirit was deluded. I have come a long way from then but still, it is something that happens to many and that is what killing of spirit is. But that doesn't mean that one cannot heal from that, I have.

Anton--To You I scream 'IDIOT'. I'm sorry, but you are the biggest dumbass I've ever heard of. You totally believe in freedom of speech when it applies to you, but the moment someone disagrees with you, you shout slander at them and tell them how horribly wrong they are. I think I'm right, and, I am. I have my proof. End of Story.

^ posted by SC2.

SCake, you are just being arrogant for saying that. Anton is very intelligent and maybe more then you [at least history wise].

Yeah, getting picked on is not a fun thing. I remember this one time when I was little some man was making ugly comments towards me because he wasn't quite sure what I was(nationality) but he knew I wasn't 'white' so I guess he thought I was contagious or something to 'stay away from'.

I don't get picked on, but if sexual harassment counts, I have gotten mine and many others fair share. This drunk man in the grocery store once stopped in the middle of the isle and said very loudly 'GODDAMN, you fine'. The embarassing part was that my mom and friend were with me.

The dude is a fucking atheist so he doesn't even believe the 'history' of the Bible, Jesus, or any of that stuff that happened. YES, I am VERY arrogant. I have more self-confidence that probably anyone on this board. Is that ANY of your business? Hell No.

But picking on Anton is -- you, too, Vercetti...

So, no comments on my long post?

So what if he is an atheist? At least he is not Mistersixer, who was an atheist who said "F Jesus" and totally disrespected other religions. At least Anton has the kindness to be respectful to other religions.

I personally try not to get too deep into religion at all so I guess you could say im not very religious. I like to beleive there is a God above, but i question if that is because I've been brought up to beleive so by everyone else in society, yet I dont like claiming anything such as Jewish, Catholic, Christian, Athiest, etc. I like to just say I simply beleive that there is a God and he or she is a very forgiving being that knows who to forgive and knows who not to forgive based on "gods" opinion. I kind of hope there isnt a heaven or hell whether there is a god or not because I'd much rather die and be gone for good like I was before being born than be put somewhere for the rest of eternity, unless it was heaven but I mean even then, who really knows what heavens like if it exist? and Hell....jeez id sure hate to be stuck there for an eternity. ETERNITY means FOREVER...think about that real long and hard and it'll scare the shit out of you. At least it scares me. I've seen too many people kill in the name of god...fight over religion and whatnot to become fully into religion as a whole. Therefore I just try not to think too hard about it.

Yes, good work grasshopper.
You pretty much summed it and no, to my knowledge maturbation is not a mortal sin, so I think we are safe. Uzto doesn't think its a sin but he's just a "Lobster boy" in SB's words.

I guess that's irrelevant, as I and my family do our best to be holy and try to be the best people we can be.

^ posted by Joltin.

I shouldn't really be my fault if you don't see the clear point my reply states. After all you've been proving to have a blurry vision to opposing opinions. It's not irrelevant if you don't give a fuck about those victims who died because they did something god disagreed with. That would make you apathetic and selfish. What if you fail at being the best you could be? And god flooded your house and killed off your family?

Anybody got a knife? I want to cut through the hate and misinterpritaions in this post. So much anger. Please, everybody, take it easy. Like I said before, opinions are opinions, but when you bite other peoples heads off for communicating thier ideas, then all hope for anything is lost.

This is, again, for no one in particular and I'm just trying to stop a potential war. If it is just fun chat, then excuse my butting in.

OMG,You mean you MASTURBATE, Vercetti? No Way! It is a sin, after all. ::Gasps::
I don't think it is THAT big of a deal, but I do think that using vegetables & battery-operated objects is taking it too far. that, of course, on;y applies to us girls. Guys go 'au natural'.
I bet if a guy EVER answers that he has never done that, he is lying out of his asshole. It is like a bad flu. It gets passed around to everyone(guys) and they ALL end up doing it.

but he knew I wasn't 'white' so I guess he thought I was contagious or something to 'stay away from'.

^ Posted by dear SC2.

In your picture you looked pretty damn fucking white to me..

Yes SC2. A hand or a finger [in a women's case I hope ] is enough. Just kidding. I don't choke my chicken. Its just a kiddy version to get the pleasure of sex without acually having it

You must not have read it then, Vercetti, cuz it wasn't in agreement with your opinion. Or did it change your opinion on the matter? I doubt that...

And who you calling a grasshopper, you little pelican?

Damn, Capo was right, you laught your ass off after reading that and looking at that avatar. I am a pelican? No, I believe the title Uz gave me was "Weasel".

If everyone is here go to the chatroom.

I have no 'white' (however you want to classify that) in me. My mom is from Puerto Rico and my dad's parents are from Italy (of course making him Italian, but he was born here in NY). I am pretty f*cking dark. That picture is nothing compared to when I was little. I looked like I played out in the sun too long and got burnt to a crisp. I was freaking dark. Now, I am pretty dark. If you look at my picture in the 'Mama Corleone' thread(same as my avatar) then you can see that I was dark. But I am a few shades darker than that now. So you would probably NOT call me white if you saw me.

post them, BTW, lets take this argument to the chat like Wise Ferro sugested. seriously, I am going.

Let me go find some pictures from when I was little and I'll scan them so you all can see how dark I was.

I'll go too.

OS -- I'm arrogant? Why, because I prove you wrong? Please. I believe in the same God that Catholics believe in -- don't try to act smart and tell me who I worship. I can believe in a religioin, but DISAGREE with certain parts and aspects and have my OWN belief; just like God said we could -- FREE WILL.

What did you say that is stupid? All your fucking posts. You compare a homosexual to a murderer, then say it's exaggerated? EXACTLY!!! You can't get your point across or be right, which you aren't, unless you EXAGGERATE. Think of some more fitting examples. You make me want to vomit.

I haven't shown anything that the Catholic religion shows? I believe in God, I obey him, I use my free will, I pray... I just don't go by every fucking thing he says. I can believe in what I want, and I believe in him, but disagree with some things he says. Comprehend what I say before TRYING to look smart.

DV -- EXACTLY. I don't agree with homosexuality, meaning I am not homosexual. But I respect them. But, you still say what they are doing is wrong, when there is no right or wrong because it's not something they can choose.

ShortCake -- So I'm an idiot? Why? Because YOU contradicted yourself? You AGREED WITH ME that there is nothing wrong with homosexuality, and that shit that the Bible says about it being a sin was bullshit. Then you come back and say the complete OPPOSITE; which you still haven't explained, and say it's SICK when you yelled at Vercetti for saying it before. And I'm an idiot? Sorry, but I'm not. And I believe in free speech to ANYONE. You say I shout "slander" and tell people they're "horribly wrong" when they disagree? I take that as an insult, since I never have. Anyone can believe in whatever they want. But when someone shuns something I believe in, you bet your fucking ass I'm gonna stick up for it. Which is FREEDOM OF SPEECH.

And so far, NO, you haven't shown any proof except contradicted yourself. Sorry to be harsh, but when push comes to shove...

ShortCake;

Italian = European.
European= Ethnically white.

Olive skin= Different shade of "white" skin.

Saying someone's from some place gives no clue to their ethnicity.. Specially in Latin countries where there's much intermarriage.

This is off topic, but...

Hey G - I have, many times during my life. And always wondered if that was true. I mean, if a person lives 65 years, 90 years, or 90 seconds, is that really enough time for us to demonstrate ourselves? Can such a tiny amount of time (out of eternity) be used to judge us, and be rewarded or punished for eternity? To me, that's like getting up to the plate in baseball, and you're only thrown one pitch, and if you miss it, you're going to hell, and if you get a base hit, you're going to heaven. On one pitch.

I believe in reincarnation, and believe that a soul has many opportunities throughout many lifetimes to learn from previous mistakes. I know this isn't taugh in Christianity, but I've heard that it used to be part of the belief (and that they've even found text on it in the vatican), but regardless, I believe it. It surely makes more sense to me.

A murderer is this life, may have someone close to him murdered in the next, which would be a punishment and also a learning experience. For the soul, not the person.

A good person in a previous life may have a really good next life.

Why the heck not? Sure makes more sense then a fetus who's died at birth being judged without having lived a lifetime.

But don't confuse this with the bullshit "I was Napolean" crap. Everyone seems to believe they were someone famous in a past life. Maybe a handful have, but c'mon, most people weren't.

Just more rambling b.s. to consider... and of course, off topic.

ShortCake, I'm still dying to hear your opinions on your sins...the one who brags about sex with her boyfriend...yes, you haven't answered it.

Listen, I want you to look back over history really seriously and think about what religion has done to us. Look at the Crusades, look at the Spanish Inquistions, look at the arguments, what was religion intended for? Thing is, and it's simple, is that homosexuality is natural. A completely natural, harmless thing. Homosexuals seem to be very kind people, and rarely do much harm, not compared to your religion, Scake, which has been harming the homosexuals and countless others for thousands of years. Your disgusting hate is what is causing all this, your condemnation of the homosexual people is what's causing deaths, suffering, of so many. It's true. It's not freedom of speech, and free will stuff is bullshit. It is what I like to call LIFE. Life...what is it? No idea...its purpose...unknown...but homosexuality is no kind of jokingly repairable bullshit, it's no disease, it's a way of life which all animals, even plants, have; to hate these people and condemn them in the name of the Lord is a disgrace on your Lord. Are they not people? Have they no right to just be who they are without assholes like you telling them that what they are doing is "wrong" and "work of Satan"? I know what you're thinking.

And why shout at me? I can damn well call you everything under the biological Sun if I want, I certainly have experience of your mind-numbing ignorance, but why get into that, I can tell what kind of a hateful, loathesome person you are; condemning people for being themselves. It's serious ShortCake, you are being as bad as any old bastard who hates people. Hate...I'm no hippy but there's a fucking lot of hate in the world. It's soon going to lead us to our downfall. I am an atheist, but religion intrigues me - I certainly don't dismiss it like you have chosen to dismiss homosexuals over a book. I am lucky to see religion from the outside, and see that you're a prime example of what it does to people and how it affects others.

Holocausts. Pain. Death. Serious fucking words and what you're doing is a serious fucking discrimination.

Please ShortCake can you think. Thinking is so important...use your own head, not others, surely you have something in there. It pains me, it really pains me to see what you people can do. It is really painful.

Enough said. I said a lot there and you should seriously consider it. I'm not dismissing your argument ShortCake (freedom of speech has nothing to do with it), but you are dismissing others.

Uhh..."period".

-Penguin

Amen is right. Didn't really change my opinion, just assured me that you are one helluva great person.

whew -- i just read the whole thread, and it's completely draining! too much anger, too many insults. hey, come on, people -- please remember to respect differing opinions and values. enough of the expletives and insults -- no name calling necessary. why do we have to call someone an "idiot", or "stupid? just because one's reasoning or line of thinking is flawed, by our definition? we have Freedom of Speech, but remember that along with this freedom,
"responsibility" is a must. meaning -- use freedom wisely, and that is your responsibility/ accountability. this goes with "free will" --we all have a right to be straight or gay/ homosexual. it's HOW we use this right which makes the difference (and that's what we call using freedom responsibly). one can be straight, but abuse the opposite sex; or one can be gay and commit lascivious acts.

religion and politics -- very sensitive topics. you can expect endless debates and arguments on these two. i come from a religious country (the largest Catholic country in Asia) and, as such, have my own points of view regarding God, homosexuality, sin, and the Bible. but i will not share these -- as i've said, religion is a sensitive topic. in the end, you just can't please everyone, or have everyone agree with you. one will agree, another will oppose.

let's just leave this at that. in the end, let's just respect everyone's opinion.

whew, boy, is this topic exhausting.

Thanks, JJ

Don Papa - Very wise post!

That was a very intelligent, Anton. And I think it was very adequate, in most parts, and very well thought out. Thing is, ShortCake doesn't go by her own words(no offense, ShortCake), she just goes by with the Bible says. Weather she agrees or disagrees; "the Bible is right!" That's why certain things about the Catholic religion, although I am Catholic, bug me. I don't like being a slave to my religion, and not being able to have my own opinions. I think it's okay to be Catholic, believe in God; go by the Bible(SOMEWHAT), but still disagree with some parts, and have my own beliefs. That's called freedom of speech, free will, which the Bible says to have amd I enjoy having. ShortCake, OS, DV; they just go by WHATEVER the Bible says no matter WHAT.

Even, though, ShortCake, I'm still confused and wanting some clarification about your hypocritical ways when you agreed with everything I said, then said the complete opposite. Please verify what opinional side you're on, and why you keep switching.

Don Papa, very wise, as Geoff said. I guess I can be responsible for the "name calling" a bit. But, alot of times, I just consider "idiot" and "stupid" ways of saying "HELLO!" They are VERY mild; as swear words seem to be the dangerous ones, which I try to avoid in arguments. It's just, people like OS who try to look smart when they aren't bug me. When they have NO valid points, and just cry out "THE BIBLE SAYS SO!!" without any beliefs of their own. That just pisses me off. But, I get what you're saying and agree.

If we can carry on a "peaceful" debate, which is nearly impossible, great. If not, it's better to end it.

I have spoken...

I'm not even gonna read all of that shit that you guys just wrote. I saw 'Shortcake' in there WAY too many times, so I guess I have to comment.

All I am going to say is that I have my own opinions and views on things and I am not going to 'lighten up' or 'think' because someone disagrees with me. I have Freedom of Speech and also FREEDOM OF MIND which means I can think whatever the hell I want. Nobody is going to change that so I suggest you stop wasting your time.

BTW, Lombardi, I NEVER said I agreed with homosexuality so stop saying I did. I want proof from a thread where I said in EXACT words that agreed with it. It is disgusting, like it or not.

We never said you can't have Freedom Of Speech. We're using our rights to it, and so are you. We're just discussing/debating it with you. Doesn't mean we're automatically trying to change your views to fits ours.

Proof? This is going to be fun. It was in the thread where you started posting all those pictures of ugly people. I dunno the name of the thread, but I'll search anyhow.

The title had "Minnow" in it. I think it was "Detication to Minnow". Yea, all the fat women you posted and everyone got discusted.

I really hate arguing with you Anthony. Seriously, you're my bud and all, but that is EXACTLY what you're doing. You are arguing your point because you don't agree with mine, and you keep arguing until I say 'OK, Tony, you're right.' Well, guess what...this time the pet is right, not the master. Now I don't care if you feel the way you do, but I feel the way I do about the matter and I want everyone to drop it.

Wow, I'm so fucking glad that my 'wabbit hunter' shot me in the back. I didn't expect you to turn on me Vercetti. Unlike everyone else. Punks.

I was saying the name of the thread, I didn't "Turn on you." Sren't you being just a LITTLE dramatic? And wtf is with "wabbit hunter"?

Ah, you guys have got to stop changing the locations. Everytime you post it is something new. Don't play dumb,V, you know what the hell a 'wabbit hunter' is. And I said that you,err, 'turned on me' because in the PM you asked me not to leave because you needed a BB friend and now you go bitching at me and taking someone's side who always picks on you.

1st. I was joking with you. notice the " " that was there.

2nd. I am not bitching at you.

There is no smiley in your post V.

ShortCake, you blow things out of proportion! The minute someone disagrees with you or something, they're a "backstabber", a "punk." "Punks?" We're "punks" because we disagree with you? This is a discussion about homosexuals, and you better expect people to disagree with others. Everyone else here can discuss this without insulting, and saying we're "punks."

You make it as though I'm some villan, who, when people disagree with me, I go on a rampage. You make it as though I always FORCE you to agree with me or something. When have I ever? Don't shove words in my mouth. I've never forced anyone to agree with me. This is a debate, if someone disagrees with you; it's natural, it's common. Don't get attitudes with those who aren't on your side.

By the way, I was being polite in all my posts directed towards you, so don't give me attitudes for no reason.

Yes there is, I just checked, I just made a mistake. Its the " " one and that still means I was joking with you.

why, thank you so much, JGeoff!

now, please lock this up! it's not getting anywhere.

Where in the world is SC when you need him....I know he was the last one with the box of crayons!

Why in the world do you people keep getting into these topics....

Sure everyone wants to be right and in control.
But you will never get anywhere if you don't stop and listen to what the other people are saying once in a while, instead of looking for points to attack each other on...

Talk is cheap here..show us some facts, figures or real words of wisdom and cut the name calling out!

By the way MY god can shove a lighting bolt up all your asses and not even get out of his chair!

Hey, Cammy.

Exactly my point. If you're gonna debate, discuss, or even JUST TALK; you have to listen to what others say. And even when you're just talking, you need some facts! You can't just say "because," "I said so," or "the Bible says so!" You need some facts or knowledge or beliefs of your own!

AL, if anything in this world is definative; if anything in this world can stop a debate for good, it's the Bible. Sure, you'd like to give your own opinions on the way you comprehend the Good Book, but that's that. Bible says **** are going to hell, they sure are. Bible says if you fuck up and go to hell unless you repent, you sure do. The reason that religion is such a hot topic is because people are weak. They want to SEE God and talk to him. It's not happening folks, unless you are part of a miracle. Live with it. Die with it. In the afterlife, you will get to spend plenty of time with him, if you do what he commands.

I know someone is going to counter with "religious people are weak, they believe because they are scared". You are 100% right. I am terrified. I want more than anything to go to heaven. But fear doesn't make me weak. Everyone is afraid at one point or another. Faith makes me strong in that I can dedicate my life 100% to something that I have never seen, heard, touched, or smelled. My mind is strong enough to keep me focused and unwaivering.

That being said, my personal opinions are as follows. Gays are wrong, and will pay the ultimate price. AL has very twisted views. If you believe in what you say you do, it is most certainly not My Catholic God. Not all sins get you to hell. Only mortal sins. And you can be forgiven, only if you are truly sorry. Does this contradict with free will? No. You can do what you please, but there are consequences. Do evil, go to hell. Do good, go to heaven. By free will, it is meant that you will not be forced to go one way or another. If you want to fuck a guys ass, you can. Your dick will not miss. But when you do, you are damning yourself.

And what makes you respect a homo? What do they do that is so respectable?

I hate this crap too, I get called a "Bible Thumper" on the AOL boards when I really didn't do anything but mention a Jesus quote. And not really HH, you cannot go to Hell if you committed a Vinial Sin. Mortal sins get you there

Anton, do you believe that Jesus never existed, or that he was simply not the Son of God?

People from every reilgion know that Jesus was alive. Jews believe he was simply a prophet that thought too much of himself. Muslims recognize him as a prophet. Buddhists, Confusciusts, etc. all acknowledge the fact that he lived. The only difference is that Christians believe he is the Son of God, the others don't. I don't know how you can claim that he never existed.

Keep reading. It is in my last paragraph.

Sorry, I read the first two paragraphs because I was in a hurry. My ma's nagging me for some reason.

Thank You,Hollywood!
Homosexuality is wrong,wrong,wrong. The Bible says so. End of discussion.
Go ahead and waste your breath trying to get me to change my views. I am sticking firmly to what I believe in....what is right.

Does it really? Or is it between the lines? Do you know the chapter it is in?

You might be right, but I just don't know where it says that in the Bible. I don't know.

This was not intending to sound angry or sacrastic. I truly want to know.

Yes it is JJ. The First chapter in "Romans". Verses 26 - 28.

HH, the Bible tells me to have free will. To believe in what I want. I believe in what I want, I believe in God. I believe in him with all my respect, faith, and religion. But that doesn't mean I have to agree with every little thing he writes. He said we can have free will, and I believe I can have my OWN beliefs as well as follow that religion. I don't have to go by EVERYTHING in the Bible; and not have my own beliefs. I'm very firm when it comes to my beliefs, and I will have my own views. And my views relfect alot of what the Bible says, but also, I disagree with some of it.

Why do I respect homosexuals? Because they are people. They have done nothing wrong. I disagree homosexuality is wrong BECAUSE THEY CAN'T HELP IT. God says homosexuals are wrong, but HE creates them. They are human beings like you and I, and being homosexual doesn't harm anyone. That's why I respect them. They are human.

ShortCake, why do you think everyone's trying to change your mind? I don't give a damn if you belief it's wrong. I think you're wrong; doesn't mean I'm trying to change you're mind. Debates and discussions are about trying to show people their beliefs, and contradictions, and what's wrong, and right, and etc. Doesn't mean we're trying to change your views.

"The Bible says so! End of discussion." Haha, I love it.

People from every reilgion know that Jesus was alive. Jews believe he was simply a prophet that thought too much of himself.

^ HH.

I always though Jews believed he was a good prophet, just not the son of God, and that they always thought his apostles stole his body.

What does anyone do to make themselves respectable?. It's all in the eye of the beholder. If you believe in the bible go by what it says. If not. Burn it. To me there's almost nothing I adjudge wrong.So; I could be very well out of this debate.

What do homosexuals do that make them so disrespectable ? They fuck guys in the ass. They suck cock.. As long as it's not mine. I don't care. Uzotopoke does that too.. *[smiles]* ( I respect you Uz.) It's a specific preference that I disagree with; all jokes aside. However, fuck a book. A dead book. It won't make me treat anyone less respectful unless they fuck with me, but for the bigger picture..

If you weren't trapped inside your Christian views, what makes them wrong? They're not raping anyone. They're not raping you.. Anal sex, oral sex and premarrital sex are also "wrong" according to the bible.

ShortCake, read my post. I was not out-right insulting you at all, but you would do good to. Now.



Hagan, I am an atheist. I'm sure Jesus was a real person, but I don't believe in it all...or I try to see things outside which is what you don't do.

I know a word that starts with "i" which sums you up entirely...


It's what they don't do, Hagan. They get all this shit put on them, why? They rarely cause any harm. Simple as that. What is the problem? They are still human beings who have every right to live as any of us...so why say they are going to hell while they are simply living their life in which they are homosexuals...it is something they cannot repair, may not want to repair, and I'm sure they'd be fucking sick of people like you always spouting shit about them because of a book. No matter how holy or "good" the book is, to condemn homosexuals is to condemn thy neighbour. I'm sorry, I don't put people in religion down unless they decide to put down and harm others, which is what you're doing.

ShortCake, I don't give a shit if I change my opinion or not, but I still want you to read what we're saying! We have an opinion as well, and I'm reading through your shit, so read through mine. And please, answer me about your fornication before marriage with your boyfriend...or will you NEVER answer that? I'm not insulting you too badly, so read my fucking posts or am I now branded as a homosexual?

-Penguin

Definately. GuineaPig, I love you, man! You reflect my views, for the most part, full heartedly. The Bible, although I don't read it daily, I know enough about God's ways to get by. Doesn't mean I have to fucking slave over it. Also, yes, there is NOTHING wrong with homosexuals. I respect every human being who hasn't done any harm to anyone, or hasn't done anything disrespectful. Being homosexual is NOT disrespectful to ANYONE. It's their own business, and GOD made them that way. It is not their fault, so to shun them over something they have no control of is disgusting.

Anal sex, oral sex, and premarrital are also wrong according to the Bible. Yes, Guineapig, you are very correct. And, also, the Bible says that you should only have sex for reproduction, and not pleasure. Are you going to abide by that, ShortCake and HH? ShortCake, you say that homosexuality is wrong 'cause the Bible says so. "The Bible says so, end of discussion!" was your quote. Well, the Bible also says sex before marriage and sex for pleasure is wrong... But, you've openly admitted on the boards you do those. So, why? Since the Bible says it's wrong, and you go by whatever the Bible says? It says so, so end of discussion, right? Please explain. I'm intrigued. PLEASE, ShortCake. I would really like to know.

I only like to argue when I know I'm right. And what I have to say has nothing to do with being wrong or right. But you people are driving me crazy...

Lombardi, Anton, and others, you can think that homosexuality is ok, and that's fine. You have your own views. What do you care if someone goes around bashing homosexuality? You know that it will turn from a debate into a pointless arguement. They believe that homosexuality is wrong, and you believe it is ok. There is no point in arguing because you won't change each others minds. So what if SC2 can't make up her mind? So what if they're against homosexuality? So what if your for it? So what if they go by everything the Bible says? Let them...let them do what they want to do and let them believe what they want to believe. I know this started out as a debate, but now it has turned into a bitter argument.

And Anthony, I do believe you were being arrogant. For all you know OS could have gone to Catholic school. And you tell him to stop trying to act smart. I'm sorry, but I think that's arrogant.

I shouldn't have said anything at all, but it was driving me crazy. I don't want to argue, I don't want to fight, I just want to stop this arugement and bring it back to a healthy debate. There, I said it.

Me too. I feel secure enough in my own religious beliefs that I really don't feel the need to fight over what I think is right and wrong. Because ultimately, that will get, at least me, nowhere.

Politics, to me, is different than religion. I will only fight with someone if they themselves say anything bad about my religion. And that has happened before, but probably won't happen with that person again.

I can't begin to imagine what would happen if Mistersixer did not leave two months ago.

This isn't an argument, at all. We are debating. We aren't slinging names at each other. We are intelligently discussing a topic of choice. There's nothing wrong with that. We're not trying to change anyone's views, at all. We're just pointing out certain things that can be contradictionary, or wrong, or right, or etc. in each other's beliefs. I, for one, find nothing at all wrong with that. And HH, and GP, and Geoff, and Anton, and anyone else involved, don't SEEM to find anything wrong with it. So why not keep on debating? Most of us have strong, and intelligent, beliefs... So why not share them, and discuss them?

Believe I was arrogant? Okay. OS is ignorant, and to me, unintelligent. Everyone else here can back up what they're saying intelligently, except for him. He must exaggerate and/or use bad examples. Did you see HH's post? NOW THAT is what I call a debate. Although disrespectful towards homosexuals, it's for the most part, intelligent. OS acts stupid in most posts(in this thread, AND elsewhere) and if he can't change that, then I will point it out, and be what you call "arrogant" to him. I realize he's a good friend of your's, but you shouldn't get involved in something between me in him, with all due respect.

Thanks for the post.

P.S. Vercetti... Actually, I'm glad Sixer is gone, with his shit-filled insults. But, to tell the truth, the debates with him were amusing, entertaining, and for the most part, "fun."

Absolutely. Lombardi, you said it all.

I try not to revert into arguments, I am guilty of that, but for the most part I have been sticking without it. I'm enjoying the debate.

-Penguin

Everyone seems to be upset by my comment about **** . First, I think it is immoral and against the word of God. That should be enough for you guys, but I see that it isn't. I also believe that what they do is disgusting. You will jump on me for that, but it's true. If you saw some guy eating a piece of dogshit, would you respect him? Probably not. Getting buttfucked or sucking some guys cock is just as bad as far as I'm concerned.

Also, people are criticizing ShortCake because of her beliefs. Whatever your views on **** , this is wrong. Religious persecution is intolerable. Debate is fine, but laughing at her for her beliefs is wrong.

Guineapig, I'm not trapped in my beliefs. I could just as easily abandon my faith. With all of this evidence AGAINST a divine being, it would be easy for me to just say "fuck it, it's too hard to believe in God and follow his rules". I won't do that. This is a choice. I'm not trapped. And I think I answered your question above. I don't care if it is harmful or not. It's fucking gross.

AL, this is where the problem lies. I feel that **** do have a choice. I think that crock of shit about them being born gay is a lie. It is made up by **** because it is easier to accept that than the reality of it: they are perverts who like the same sex. Forget religion for a moment, it is just fucking wrong for one guy to suck another's dick. Why do we all buy that lie about being born gay? Pedophiles say they are born pedophiles too, but no one buys that. Well, is fucking a kid any worse than fucking a dude? I don't think so. Both of them will go to hell.

Anton, I was just asking a question. You don't have to get defensive. I do look at things from an unbiased perpective, except this. As far as I am concerned, Catholicism is right and fuck all of you who can't see it. It's your ass. You may have more fun for 100 years or so, but I am gearing more for the next infinite amount of years.

Guinea, you are right about the Jews and Jesus. I was just shortening it. They never thought he was the Son of God, hence my use of the term "thought too much of himself".

I thought it stopped being a debate when people stared saying fuck and ****. But that's just me. I like to stay away from arguements unless I know I am right about something, and I shouldn't have said anything here at all. I like Anthony, and I like you Anton, but I couldn't keep quiet. I had to say something, and what I said probably wasn't that intellegent, but I wanted to say something.

Hey I thought it was very intelligent.

Finally someone who can uphold a somewhat strong and intelligent debate. I applaud that, HH.

But, I do find what you're saying to be incorrect. You're right about something, though, fuck the religion shit right now. Let's get to the shit about homosexuals. And please, for the respect of the board, and people with their beliefs... Can you use the term gay or homosexual? "*** " is very disrespectful to those who have the beliefs that I have, which is why it's censored... And everyone else is able to do it. And I'm not disrespecting your beliefs, so you shouldn't to ours/mine. Thanks ahead of time, I appreciate it.

Homosexuality is not a choice, though, man. You can't just say... "Hey, I think I'm gonna go straight!" It's impossible. And if it wasn't... There would be tons of homosexuals turning heterosexual. I mean, there are homosexuals who hate being homosexual... Why don't they just turn heterosexual? Simple. They can't. And if you can't see that man, no offense, but that's pretty thick headed. I think fucking a man is disgusting just as much as the next guy... But, plenty of people do disgusting things. Doesn't mean they are bad people.

Also, that example about eating dogshit is really bad. You have control of what you eat. Homosexuals do not have control of what ther are. Weather you believe it or not, someone can't just say "I'm straight now." It's impossible, bro.

And, we're not laughing at ShortCake or anything like that. She's not making sense, so we're simply fucking confused and asking what she means. Because, she's NOT unintelligent. She seems like a smart girl... But, she's not showing it by what she's saying. I dunno, but I know I'M not laughing or picking on her. I'd just simply like her to explain herself, and make more sense.

Omar -- bad language is common. It's a habit of some people. We just commonly use it, doesn't mean we're fighting. Still discussing, man. And, by all means, don't keep quiet when you got something to say. Freedom of speech, man. Your opinion counts just as much as the next guy.

Off topic:

AL, what's that website for movie scripts? Help me out, man.

JJ- http://movie-page.com/movie_scripts.htm

It is a great site.

Omar got it right.

Thanks alot man
but dang, they don't have the movie I'm looking for..Field of Dreams

AL, again, you try to disprove my arguments by saying that **** don't choose thier lifestyle. This is exactly the opposite of what I believe. Because we will NEVER agree on this, I think I'm going to call it quits.

But I just want you to know that if you are to refute my points, you should do it using fact or at least a common belief that we share. I think **** do have a choice, and that is what makes them sick. They knowingly choose to get buttfucked.

The only way that I would excuse them from thier disgusting ways is if it was proven that gayness is a mental disorder. This would mean that they have no choice, but would also mean that they would have to recognize that thier lifestyle is wrong. Either way they are wrong. If they choose to get fucked up the hairy ass, that is undeniably sick. If they have no choice, they have a mental disorder, which means that they are wrong. A disorder can only be such if it does not follow society's norms.

I don't like homosexual sex either, Hagan, but to tell the truth, it's as simple as this: they are human beings and they deserve to be left alone because as long as they aren't harming anyone, then it's okay. The can go and buttfuck each other as much as they want, I don't give a damn, it's got nothing to do with me. They aren't harming anyone, just leave them alone. Why do they deserve to be put down like that?

And a note, it is worse to fuck a kid than to have gay sex with a guy. Paedophilia is the worse possible thing on this planet.

-Penguin

I guess you ignored my request not to use the word "*** ." Thanks alot. It's not like I'm sitting here disrespecting your beliefs, you don't have to do it to me.

But, the thing is... Can a homosexual just say "I think I'm gonna be straight." There are homosexuals, as I said, who HATE to be homosexual. Why can't they just stand up and change? I mean, even Family Honour said... They've proven, I think, that there is a gene that causes homosexuality.

You tell me to get proof/facts, and that I have none... Do you? Is it a proven fact that it is a choice? No. Maybe it isn't a proven fact that it isn't a choice; but there's a HELLUVA lot more evidence. You can't JUST STOP. Can YOU, HH, go homosexual? For one second, can you just find men attractive, be attracted to them, want to love them, etc.? Can you? No. And you can say you are and that you could; but, really, you can't. Which is my point, you can't just change it.

I realize we'll never agree on it, but seriously... There's way more evidence that's it's not a choice. What's your's? Are you homosexual? No. So how do you know you can just change it? You don't even like homosexuals. So, you must not have any homosexual friends. And if you do, you've said they're disgusting, so you must not get along with them all that well. I DO have homosexual friends, and I DO get along with them very well because I respect them, which you don't, so I think I have more of a perspective from them than you.

Let me ask you a question. If you had a friend for a LONG time, who never had a girlfriend... But you didn't think much of it. What if he came out of the closet? Would you hate him because he's homosexual?

I have to go, now. When I come back, I'll look for your answer. It's been interesting thus far... Let's see if we can continue this without getting harsh.

This is directed to Hollywood ONLY - since it is his viewpoint only that I am curious about right now...

You have made your views on male on male sex crystal clear. Do you feel the same way about woman on woman?

As a self proclaimed "horndog" - do you feel as passionate about female gayness? Alot of men seem to invoke their double standard rules on this one - buttfucking involving 2 guys is sick but they will sit around and watch women go at it all day. Is it the same morally?

I have no desire to debate you - just curious about how you feel about it....

I think you're both talking about different things. AL is right that gay people didn't choose to be gay. But HH, I think, is trying to say that they do choose to *act* upon it.

According to HH, I guess, it's better for a gay person to live a hetero life (even though it's not fulfilling or 'right' for that person). Or, live their lives alone.

A homosexual cannot love a person of the opposite sex the same way as heteros do. I'm talking true love, passion, lust, etc. (Bi's can though, hence the term).

I suppose it's their "choice" to deny their own feelings and live a secluded, lonely life like HH would like them to. But it's not their choice to have those uncontrollable feelings to begin with.

Some people find it disgusting, that's fine. But it's also judgemental and unfair to those who find hetero sex disgusting.

If people would accept others differences, then this wouldn't even be debatable.

I'm think I'm done w/ this topic now - as it's going no where...

Lust is not true love. It is sexual craving or loving one's body etc. Lust is an example of Vulgar Love, not True Love.

I never said it was. I said "etc", which means "things like these"...

Oh, sorry, I thought you were relating them as in being the same thing.

Shit sure gets deep around here some days...

Yes, I am a pervert of sorts. But I'm straight as an arrow. Men disgust me. But while I am as horny as anyone on the earth, I still am repulsed by lesbians. It's wrong. It is more accepted than male gayness in society, but as you can see, I do not agree with society on this one. Gays are wrong and disgusting, period.

Geoff, you are right. That's why I told AL we should quit. He believes they have no choice. I say that the act itself is the nail in the coffin. If you secretly want to do a guy, keep it that way. Sure, you might be unhappy, but think big picture here: eternal damnation or eternal paradise? I know I said not to talk about religion, but the issues are so closely related, it is impossible.

Anton, YOU think screwing a kid is worse then being gay. I think they are equally evil. Your beliefs are shaped by societies view. Gays are cool, pedophiles are not. To me, neither is cool.

Tone Lombardi, the gene you speak of is unproven. The odds tell you that. How can someone be gay if NO ONE in the family tree has ever been gay? I mean, there is such a thing as a redhead coming from a family of dark haired people, but at least one person in the family must carry a red headed gene. You could say that someone in the family had a homo gene and didn't act on it. I say GOOD. Have this homo act like the previous homo and realize that thier desires are wrong. Don't fuck someone of the same sex. It may seem a bit inhumane, but as I said, deal with it. Do the right thing. It might be hard, but so is my urge to kill each and every person I see. Needless to say, I have never killed a man.

HH;

My previous post had only a fraction of it directed at you and the only time I mentioned your name was: when quoting you.
I left it up for any Christian who felt caged by their beliefs, or persuation. Or anyone who feels they don't seem to see something clearly because of personal experiences. To reply to it.

I would not respect a guy who ate shit HH. In case you wonder. I would most likely exploit him for my personal benefit and gain in every field. Then give him some real food. Then exploit him again, back to coda.

I respect no one unless they do something respectful. Not saying anything and having me not know them; does not show stupidity. So I respect them. So what? Fuck homosexuals if that's what you're into. Fuck straight individuals if that's what you're into. Fuck bisexual individuals if that assuages you. Fuck them all for fun. Everywhere. Fuck dead bodies.. Fuck animals It doesn't bother me. At least not with the status quo.

Most of the people who believe they're going to heaven will burn in hell. The bible itself says so in the book of revelation. I see someone who openly regards homosexuality as wrong as: no different then a racist. It's just a different setting. I believe since someone has no thoughts when they are born untill they're 6-7 years of age, believing someone could be born something is insulting to one's ability to think or analyze.

Fucking a boy should be something punishable by death. Fucking a man who's old enough to choose what he wants.. I don't think should. Unless you feel you have to kill both parties.It's a different setting Hagan, but I do get what you were trying to paint in the bigger picture, and; I agree with that.

If you consider homosexuality to be a bad thing the events that lead up to that fall under adversities, if considered to be a good thing they fall under good fortune. I believe it's the events that lead up to what one becomes are determined by lot. Who's in charge of picking is still unknown to me.. I don't even know if; I believe in luck.

Buddhists believe this:

The wheel of life is up on some and down on others; it fluctuates[this is sort of strengthening the belief of Karma] - Then again I regard the religions of the East to be an elaborate way of telling all: to have no individuality to not live, to not feel and to stay in line; for the good of the community. It has it's pluses and minuses. Just like communism. Which is possibly why communism was chosen as China's form of government China's the birthplace of Eastern culture.

Take what you can out of the above post.

Guineapig.

Post Script: whatever we do has eternal consequences. Be you an atheist or a staunchly pious, or devout Christian; or a heathen. This can be extracted from "common" sense.

I think Geoff is right. Me and you are arguing about two different things, HH. When you say homosexuals are disgusting, are you saying them, as humans beings, are disgusting? Or that their act of homosexual sex is disgusting? They're human beings, so I don't consider them disgusting as people unless they do something disrespectful; then they, as humans, are disgusting. But, not JUST because they are homosexual, because God made them that way. BUT. If you're talking about homosexual sex being disgusting -- well, fuck yes. I think a guy being fucked is disgusting, too. But, what you were saying was that they, as humans just because they are homosexual, are disgusting. I still don't know what you meant; but whatever you meant, your answer/reply is above.

The gene may be not proven; but it's also more likely than not. There must be SOMETHING that causes homosexuality. Because, it's not a choice; at all. And you say there must be someone else who was homosexual for the gene to pass on -- I agree. And it CAN be, but genes can be carried on FOREVER. One of their ancestors can be homosexual. Proving the point that it CAN be a gene. I don't know for sure about that. But, my point is; homosexuality is not a desicion, but you're correct about the act of homosexual sex being a choice. You don't choose to be homosexual, but you DO, however, choose to have homosexual sex. Agreed?

However, homosexuality being wrong is an opinion. You can't say "it's wrong, and that's it" because it's not it. Others may disagree, like myself. I don't think it's wrong, it's their life, and they can't help it. God made them that way. My stance on homosexual is sex is; it's disgusting, to me, but -- hey, it's their lives. If they want pleasure, let them do it. Weather God forgives them or not is his decision. I think that they SHOULD be able to, but for two reasons. One being that they are humans who crave pleasure just as much as heterosexual people. They should be able to have pleasure in sex just as much as heterosexuals. But, another thing is -- that I don't agree with the Bible about sex for pleasure being wrong.

I believe I can be Catholic, go by the Bible, and have my own beliefs also. That's just my perspective, my outlook. And I know I've said this before, but I believe it needs to be repeated. God gives us free will, and my free will is to have my own beliefs as well as the Bible's.

That is all.

Oh, yeah, and ShortCake -- I still want an answer... About homosexuality being wrong 'cause the Bible says so. But, you have admitted to having premarrital sex, when the Bible says it's wrong. You say the Bible's always right; so I just want some clarification.

I hope you people don't hate me after I say this....but I must tell you that I a lesbian.
Also I don't expect to change so if you hate people like me then so be it...I know Partagas is also a Lesbian and I am sure there are one or two others in the same boat!
Get over it and learn to live your life with us...we are people too!

She'll never answer, Lombardi, because she hasn't an answer.

Cam, I myself am not lesbian, but there is a guy on this board who's name begins with "U" who is.

Any guesses? Cam, I'm glad you came out of the closet, and I won't condemn you for it.

-Penguin

*stands up and applauds loudly* Congradulations, Cammy! I'm glad to hear you came out of the closet, man! That takes guts!

Anton, I doubt she'll answer. I'm predicted she'll make up an excuse not to, like "I'm not even reading that" or "I don't don't feel I should have to" or something. Or simply ignore it. Sorry, ShortCake, but that's what you usally do; and it's what I predict. Prove me wrong, please. I really want an answer to that question.

Here it is to refresh your memory.

You're being a hypocrite by saying that homosexuality is wrong because the Bible says so. You claim that anything the Bible says is right; end of discussion. So, why do you have premarrital sex if the Bible says it's wrong? And why do you have sex for pleasure if the Bible says it's wrong? Just REALLY curious.

And, I don't want you jumping all over me saying I'm a "backstabber," I'm "picking on you," or I'm "being mean." I just want to know; badly. So don't take it personal or nothing.

Thanks.

AL, I think homosexuals are disgusting. The act is bad enough, but you have to be one sick fuck to actually believe that the act is "normal", "acceptable", "good", etc. That is why they are disgusting. And this is where our argument lies: I 100% believe homos CHOOSE to live the way they do. I don't believe God creates them. The following statement will be religious, but here goes: they are tempted by the Devil, and they take the bait. They choose to do what is forbidden. Not only are they going to hell (perhaps in the proverbial handbasket), but they are disgusting human beings as well.

The next question was directed to ShortCake, but I'll take a shot at it. As for having premarital sex, I admit I have. And I probably will continue. I have never turned down sex, and I never will. This is a sin, and I know it. There is a chance that I will go to hell, and it haunts me. But I repent, and do so totally honestly, and I hope that I am forgiven for my sins. That's all I can say. Perhaps I am a hypocrite. Shit, I know I am. But at least I'm going in the pink, not the stink.

ShortCake, forget about AL. I'd be happy to help you with your premarital sexual needs. Gimme a call sometime...

Quote

Originally posted by Anthony Lombardi:
[qb]Oh, yeah, and ShortCake -- I still want an answer... About homosexuality being wrong 'cause the Bible says so. But, you have admitted to having premarrital sex, when the Bible says it's wrong. You say the Bible's always right; so I just want some clarification.

I have hence asked her twice! Still with no reply. Who are we to cast the stone at homosexuals, I personally dont know Gods entire plan for all of us, so i am not one to say they are or are not going to hell. We all sin!! And if Catholics are right we have already been saved so i say if a gay has a relationship with God he may go to heaven, but he is no diffrent if he rejects God.

AL, I think homosexuals are disgusting. The act is bad enough, but you have to be one sick fuck to actually believe that the act is "normal", "acceptable", "good", etc. That is why they are disgusting.

See, that's where you're showing disrespect; to humans as a whole. What if you met a guy, and he's the nicest guy you've ever met? Let's say, you guys grew close, like brothers. And you two turned out to be best friends. The guy, AS A HUMAN BEING, is a GOOD person. Now, he reveals he's homosexual. Now he's disgusting? That, I just find insensate -- BY FAR. Many of my friends are homosexual, and they are wonderful human beings. They aren't disgusting people.

And this is where our argument lies: I 100% believe homos CHOOSE to live the way they do. I don't believe God creates them.

See, we'll never agree on this. I am THIS CLOSE to KNOWING that they DON'T CHOOSE. I'm actually gonna go ahead and say I'm 100%. Because... I believe it does not make sense that someone gets to that point in their lives and says... "Hmmm... Do I wanna be homosexual... Or heterosexual? Bah, I'll be homosexual." That's pretty fucking stupid, to me. My point is, you can't just drop it. HH, would YOU be able to just stop like women this very second and start liking guys? You can SAY you are able to; but the truth is, you can't. You can TELL yourself you like guys(this is an example, not saying you do), but deep inside, YOU'D STILL LIKE WOMAN. You can't just drop it. And that's my point, man. That's what I'm trying to say. And I know many homosexuals; that are close friends of mine. They are great people, and they can't just change.

The following statement will be religious, but here goes: they are tempted by the Devil, and they take the bait. They choose to do what is forbidden. Not only are they going to hell (perhaps in the proverbial handbasket), but they are disgusting human beings as well.

This, I can't stand I can't STAND when people associate homosexuals with the devil. But, it all winds down to what you think is right or wrong, and weather you think they choose or not, and weather you go by the Bible. That's where we differ, so I guess there's no arguing about that.

As for that last paragraph... About premarrital sex. You said it yourself. Hypocrite. But, I still want an answer from ShortCake.

ShortCake, forget about AL. I'd be happy to help you with your premarital sexual needs. Gimme a call sometime...

Isn't that against the Bible?!

Let's say, you guys grew close, like brothers. And you two turned out to be best friends. The guy, AS A HUMAN BEING, is a GOOD person. Now, he reveals he's homosexual. Now he's disgusting?
Of course there would be a dilemma there, and luckily I have never had to distance myself from anyone for that reason. I can tell you this, if my BROTHER was gay I would disown him. As would the rest of my entire family. That just doesn't happen amongst our people. If I had a great friend that was gay, I would have to give the friendship up. I know this sounds like hogwash to a lot of people, but I am not like most people. I can honestly tell you that I am a very cold person. My bonds are very loosely constructed and can be easily broken. This would be one case where I would have to do that. I know my unloving ways are a fault, and I have tried to change them, but I am just a shithead. Sorry, that's just me. In short, I would drop my friend. It would probably hurt for a while, but like I said, I would be able to get over it.

I believe it does not make sense that someone gets to that point in their lives and says... "Hmmm... Do I wanna be homosexual... Or heterosexual? Bah, I'll be homosexual." That's pretty fucking stupid, to me.
You share my feelings. Why would someone choose to be gay? I cannot fathom it. But you are trivializing the choice they ultimately have to make. They don't just wake up one day and say, "I'm a homo now!" But they do choose to get buttslammed. No doubt about it. And this is where they damn themselves. Acting on your disgusting urges is wrong. As I've said, I would love to kill a few of you guys, but I won't because I realize that it is sick and wrong. Homos don't realize that what they are doing is wrong. That in itself is another wrongdoing: not seeing your evils.

Isn't that against the Bible?!
You bet!

Now I am not trying to be a smart ass here so lets not get off on the wrong foot....

HH, what do you do if you find out that a teammate or coach is gay?
I know that many Gay players have been faking it for years to protect their careers.

Your Professor?

What about your clergy where you worship?

How about the cook at your favor eating place?

How about you fall for a nice wonderful lady and after getting really close you find out that she has a gay parent or brother?

How about an actor in your favorite show?

If you were hurt and needed medical care would you accept a Gay Doctor or nurse?


I have a Gay employee on my staff....Would you not come here if you had a need for our services?
Would it make a difference to find out that he takes very good care of the families that he services and gets many wonderful thank-you notes for going that extra mile that the familes need...

Would you do the same if he was a different Race, or religon.

Cam, I would lose all respect for that person, regardless of position. If a coach or teammate was gay, I would obviously be in a bad position, because I would never give up my career because I dislike them. There are ways of distancing yourself from them, and I would do that. As for a professor, I've had a few gays. Can't say that I enjoyed those classes much. I am a good student, but more likely than not, I would just be in class wondering what is wrong with the instructor. As for clergyman, I cannot say. That would be a heartbreaker, no matter how much of a jerk I am. That would be like learning Santa Clause is an elf. It would throw off everything that I hold dear!

Concerning your staff, I would never refuse to go there because of a gay person. But I certainly would prefer to deal with someone else. No doubt about it. If I had to deal with the homo, I could do it, but it would definately bother me.

I am into women to a point of absurdity, but I CHOOSE to let any man, woman or beast lap on my knob if they desire (except MY animals...others are OK). It's just a wet hole, man. If woodpeckers could moisten the holes they peck, you can bet your ass I'd be up on a limb fucking the hell out of them.

Not only are they a "fault" - they are 100% against Jesus' teachings to love thy neighbor. Wow, man, that's pretty damn sad.

Exactly. See above.

I can tell you this, if my BROTHER was gay I would disown him. As would the rest of my entire family.

To that... I am just greatly disturbed...

Thanks for the answers HH, and I don't mean to pick at you but the one thing I am really interested in is:

How about you fall for a nice wonderful lady and after getting really close you find out that she has a gay parent or brother?

Give it up Cam. HH will ALWAYS think it is disgusting sexual behavior and choose his acquaintances that way. He will NEVER approve. I don't care to question or change his mind. I am sure and glad he doesn't care to change mine. Many Christians pick and chose what they want to believe, and what they will set aside. Nothing new to me.

Athough I don't consider myself completely free of unconscious prejudice I support the rights of homosexual individuals the same as I support the rights of anyone else. The gay friends I have contribute a lot to my happiness, and what goes on within their private consensual adult relationships is no damn business of mine to judge (as they do not judge me).

What a change in topic! Inevitable, really, though. Such a shame.

Mick

I'm not sure I can cope with you anymore, Hagan. You are far too enigmatic now. Schizophrenic, perhaps?

Basically, what do you care about how someone else gets a nut off (first and foremost) or how queers feel about one another? Choose to be gay? Are you insane? Can you imagine the isolation a young man, pre-teen, maybe, feels when he sees a boy in the locker room and wants to kiss him, while all those around him make it very clear that it is despicable? And he can't help it? Who would choose to be a social outcast?

Man, I don't care who is gay, who is black, who is Chinese, who is short...fuck, I have enough to worry about. So long as you are affable, I don't care if you're ALL of the preceding four things, sucking off every man from here to Kansas City. Enjoy yourself, I say.

Moreover, do we really believe queers mean to be that way...as if there is a choice? And does THAT even matter? If they DID actively choose to forsake women and fuck men, is that not their right as humans? Why should I, or Hagan, or anyone, care about what a man or woman does with their sexual organs?

It's when you start peddling your CHILDREN's sexual organs that a state must step in and stop you. Otherwise, big fucking deal that one believes gay sex is nasty or that queers are too flamboyant. Fuck it. They have to get over it and worry about themselves.

Here's something you just brought to my attention, Uzto. If someone's gay, then they can't help it. I've said it before. But, hey... Let's say they can. Let's say they have a choice. I don't believe they do, but let's just say they do, hm? Okay. So, HH, just because someone goes against your religion, you hate them? Anyone who is not for your religion, you're against? That's just as bad as being a racist; prejudice. You've said yourself that you went against your religion with premarrital sex. So, you went against it yourself, do you hate yourself? Bro, you're being so hyprocritical.

What if it weren't a Christian? What if it was a religion that doesn't think homosexuality is wrong? Then they aren't breaking the religion, because it's not their's to follow. My point is... They just may not be religious. Is that their fault? So, you would basically be disliking them because they aren't religious, they are of a different religion, etc. And that, my friend, is being prejudice agains another religionl; JUST as bad as racism.

If this is religion; hate and discrimination, foolishness and contradiction, then I am glad that I am not religious. This truly shows what it can do. Your comment about disowning your brother was sick and disturbing...

...I should make a movie about something like this. Whatever it is, Hagan, I think that what you are saying is very sad. Just leave them alone, they're harming no-one. Uzto summed it up beautifully and...uhh...subtely. Why shouldn't they love? Because they will be sent to the devil? Sent into compression and depression because they cannot love who they want? No, that's not right man.

By the way, a question, what do you think of homosexual Christians?

-Penguin

Don't even listen to Hollywood H. He is not a real Christian. He resorts to hate.

Don't even listen to Hollywood H. He is not a real Christian. He resorts to hate.

Posted by Vercetti ^.

Don't listen to Vercetti; he results to judging and annoyingness..

AMEN GuineaPig.

Who are you to talk Vercetti? You haven't the slightest idea about what your talking about. You scamper off to religious websites and fill your posts with a bunch of *shit* that nobody reads anyhow.

Lombardi--I am STILL waiting for a direct quote from whatever thread I was 'defending' homos in. I have to tell ya buddy boy that you will NEVER find me defending a F-A-G because I TOTALLY disagree with it(be it male or female). Homos aren't normal. Their relationships aren't normal. They are in it solely for sexual gratification. Everything they do is linked to sex. They are NOT born that way. Why would GOD say it is wrong and forbid people to live such a way if it was 'OK'? He doesn't create something he forbids. That's where the devil steps in. He puts this SHIT in our heads just like he does in the violent movies/music. He is the root of all evil...Not GOD.

Weak beings are the root of all evil. Nothing else.

Along with wet holes..

Who am I to talk? I am talking about the same fucking thing you are! Just without all the yelling and shit and discrimination. I have been saying gay and homosex.. You are saying f-a-g. WTF? Do you think we are that stupid that we don't see that?!

BTW, SC2, I went back and found some of your posts deleted and they were not deleted by SC or JG.

Here comes that war I've been talking about....

ShortCake, you told Vercetti to stop his "bashing shit" on page 2 of the Dedicated to Minnow thread:

"Vercetti..enough of the bashing shit and cheeks,everyone else...just stop egging him on."

But that isn't so much what I'm wondering about. Answer that question we have been asking you again and again and again and again and again which you won't answer! Please!

And stop calling names, ShortCake. I try not to to you, which is hard since I don't exactly have very nice feelings towards you right now.

I may disagree with Vercetti on the whole, but he is saying it better than you. Thing is, for a true Christian as you claim to be, you're pretty bad...what with all you're premarrital sex and your terrible acceptance of different people (neighbours), plus a good dose of swearing to add to your resume as well! Hell! You're a sinner and that's no doubt! Hagan as well...

-Penguin

Yeah, I sure was wondering about that. I've sent a link anyway, which has a tiny bit of damning evidence, but I think I know what happened...

-Penguin

ShortCake, I think I have a solution for you. Read the rest of this fucking thread. We've already went over if homosexuality is a choice or not. It's an opinion. Stop dragging it out. IT'S OVER. We're now onto discrimination of homosexuals. Try and keep up, now.

Stop trying to deny that you weren't defending homosexuals. You told Vercetti to stop bashing them. "Stop bashing them!" was your quote. Why tell someone to stop bashing someone, if you're for it? And even if it isn't in EXACT words; you were telling me on AIM, as the discussion went on, that bashing homosexuals was wrong. Deny it all you want, neither of us have AIM proof. But, even IF(key word) you didn't, you're still a hypocrite by saying that homosexuality if wrong 'cause the Bible says so... And everything in the Bible is right, you say, but you admit to having premarrital sex. Hmmm... Do I smell a hypocrite? "The Bible says so! End of discussion!" I love it!

It's so obvious you're avoiding the subject. Answer this; please... Don't be a coward.

Why is homosexuality wrong if the Bible says so, and the Bible is always right; when you, yourself, commit acts of adultery, which the Bible says is wrong? PLEASE answer! I'm so fucking intrigued to hear about it! Please... Really, c'mon.

And why would the Bible say that, or God do that, you ask? Simple. I said it before. The Bible is a fucking contradiction.

I predict you avoid the question again.

Fantastic, Lombardi! Very good, very good. You said it well; ShortCake is a hypocrite...

...and she can't/won't even answer the question. This is either a) she isn't reading the posts, or b) she doesn't have an answer. I think it's both.

Originally posted by Anthony Lombardi:
And everything in the Bible is right, you say, but you admit to having premarrital sex. Hmmm... Do I smell a hypocrite? "The Bible says so! End of discussion!" I love it!

Absolutely. End of discussion...yet...what? ShortCake, I smell a rather decomposed rat here...

-Penguin

Yeah, man. She's just gonna bring back her "no proof!" excuse, and avoid it again. I hope not, though. Because I'm so fucking curious, and so goddamn intrigued to hear her explaination. Because, if she's a hyprocrite... Then that eliminates her from the discussion as a WHOLE, since she wouldn't be able to keep up a good argument if she's contradicting herself.

ShortCake, that is in your own one-sided mind. I have never heard or believed such an accusation...can anyone prove me wrong?

-Penguin

This hasn't been around since April, but thought it'd be interesting to add the new memebers to the poll...

Please read Post #1 in this thread before voting.

not a new member, but I wasn't around at the time.

GREAT post J Geoff, and honestly I have checked every box that fit me.

a lot of intelligent people here !

Wasn't there mention of doing another one in the near future? Is it that time yet?

a third one? since there are currently two

I can't open the window to answer the questions. I've been having problems with that lately. My computer is getting old. it sounds like a weird poll anyway!

It must be time for Geoff to find a new partner! Fall is in the air and Geoff is looking for someone to spend that winter weather with!