Gun Control

Ok, I'm not an Obama supporter but i also consider myself logical.
What the fuck is wrong with forcing those at gun shows or those selling over the internet to perform a back ground check? Tell me how that would prevent you from defending yourself from a home invasion?
Tell me why there was a loop hole in current gun laws that would force gun sellers to report lost or stolen guns in transit ( guns being shipped) within 48 hours to the ATF ? Its now mandatory but tell me how that hurts our second amendment right?
These expansions of current laws make total sense and do not effect our second amendment. Will they stop a terrorist attack? Maybe not. But it will be harder for your typical street thug to procure a gun. Less guns would be in the country's most dangerous cities. Thats a good thing and its good for thise that live in those cities.
One thing that is not included in the new bill ( i dont think it is), is requiring all INDIVIDUALS who own guns to report the theft or loss of a gun to the po,ice ir ATF within 48 hours. The new bill will force gun sellers to do that but not gun owners. Most states dont have this important aspect of gun control as law. Here is why it should be included. An underground gun dealer in south carolina for example can stock up on guns and bring them to new york or chicago and sell them on the street. If the guns are used in a crime and traced back, the original owner can claim ignorance( " my guns must of been stolen, i never knew "). Thats absurd and makes no sense. Why should a deadly weapon that is stolen not have to be reported. New jersey and new york enforce it but big fuckin deal!!! Most criminal gun dealers buy their guns from states with lax reporting laws such as south carolina, not jersey or NYC.
Again, how does that effect our rights?
If you get surgery and need pain meds, you need a prescription. If that prescription gets stolen you know its going to be tough to get another script...there is also a data base that tracks how many controlled substances an individual gets filled within a certain time.
Why not do that with guns?
Again, how will these logical laws effect you from hunting, protecting your home, target practice, or collecting guns? It wont.
Im a republican but these current gun laws are fuckin dumb and i agree with what Obama did since no one else put forth the effort.
Again i reiterate, it may not stop a mass shootings, although he did enact mental health legislation, but it will make it tougher for your average home invasion street thug to get a gun. Less gang bangers with guns is better for everyone.
Lastly, maybe Obama used terrorism as an excuse for this legislation or even politics, but who fuckin cares, it makes sense.

Here is what Obama executive order really means. You are a private gun owner who wants to sell two of his guns to a friend or a relative. He has to get a license saying he is a gun dealer to do it. If not he will find his ass in jail.

Fucking around with amendments can not be done by executive order.

Imagine if Thrump was elected he would go as crazy with executive orders as Obama.

I could go out to any bodega in Spanish Harlem that knew me and buy as many guns as I want if the money is right.

I would advise people to get that new video door bell. See someone you don't know don't let him in. If he try's to break the door down let him. Move back to the last room and shoot him in the heart.

It's already state law in California that you cannot sell a firearm privately. If you want to sell one you either have to have your own dealer's permit or you have to do it through the dealer. The dealer acts as a middle man and does the background check.

Criminals won't have a hard time procuring weapons illegal due to our black market in this country. The more difficult the gun control laws become overall than the more lucrative it's for the arms traffickers. As many posters have said before Chicago have one of the most toughest gun laws and yet there's over 2,000 shootings in the city. It's a repetitive cycle at the end of the day.

Black Family
You are so missing the damn point. Of course there is a black market for guns. How do you think those guns get to those black markets in the first place?
Guys travel to states like south carolina that have very lax laws and either buy guns themselves or they have friends or relatives that live there and buy the guns
For them . They either buy many over a period of time or a few depending on what the objective is. When these guns are later sold on the streets and used in a crime and then the gun gets traced back, the original purchaser can say : " hey, my guns must of got stolen". There are no laws that force someone to report a lost or stolen gun in south carolina and many states which is just insane.
Obviously many criminal gun dealers take off the serial numbers so they cant be traced.
Also, illegal gun illegal dealers buy them at gun shows and over the net. Thats how they get into the hands of criminals. Doing back ground checks and creating a data base will certainly curtail that. Why should my cousin Joe be able to sell me is 9 mil glock without a background check?? And i was a fuckin criminal for years. No way should i of owned a gun.lol
What dont you get black family?

Belmont the NRA is perhaps the most powerful organization in the US. When you buy a firearm from a gun shop, most times they give you an application to join the NRA or you are automatically enrolled into the NRA. They have fought gun laws for so long, that they have thrown common sense out the window sometimes.
What this bill that the president pushed for, is that a law abiding citizen can no longer do a private sell of a firearm, they either have to have a license to do that or have a licensed dealer to do the transaction. This is not really going to help with the gun violence, cause there will always be a black market for guns. You also have people out there that can assemble and craft firearms such as AK-47s and Uzis to give you a sense of what can be build with no serial numbers. In high school I made a few zip guns, single shot .22 and .25 calibers.
The ATF can only do so much, and are plagued by embarrassments over the years. They have tried to enforce the 48 hours of reporting a stolen or missing firearm of a citizen, but guess what? The good old NRA has made some of that difficult to do. What is one of the things the NRA keeps shouting all these years? The government is trying to control and take away peoples guns. The government is trying to regulate firearms, and with the recent gun violence, there really has not been any bipartisanship between the parties in this issue to where the President really had no choice but to push this new law.
Is this law going to fix the problem? No. What this law is is just something for certain people to be able to sleep comfortably at night thinking they solved the problem. The United States exports a lot of firearms to other nations. The US is a gun nation pure and simple, it's in our country's dna.
For the record you can legally own a flamethrower in the US, some states have city ordinance for that but it is something that is never brought up. The psychological and mentality of that is for more worst then that of firearms.
Ask yourselves this, how many people that own firearms have gun safes and gun locks? It is a question that is asked on a application, but rarely checked uponed.
The black-market for guns will thrive with this new law for years. It is just how it is. Supply and demand. There has to be a balance with the gun laws but there is none. Cities, farming towns, lumberjack towns, mining towns, ranching towns, and rural towns are all different, and have different threats to their communities.
That's my rant.

I don't understand your point.

" How do you think those guns get to those black markets in the first place?"
I already know this and posted a pipeline case in the OC section. You haven't paid any attention to my location.

". There are no laws that force someone to report a lost or stolen gun in south carolina and many states which is just insane"

Generally gun(s) that are stolen legitimate are reported but lost ones might not be reported. What's insane is a Chicago family suing a pawn shop in another state for the death of a loved one.

" Doing back ground checks and creating a data base will certainly curtail that"

As I said earlier , It's currently in effect in certain cities of course but little to some decline in gun violence is the results. Therefore the executive order is going to be somewhat effective. That's not going to be an overnight nor year grand decline.

"Why should my cousin Joe be able to sell me is 9 mil glock without a background check?? And i was a fuckin criminal for years. No way should i of owned a gun."

In that scenario: Cousin Joe would give you the gun for free because to protect yourself. Or Cousin Joe already cleared the background check and need/wants a couple bucks. Or Cousin Joe doesn't give a rats ass about some background check due to his shady past.

I understand the topic but not your point.

Government forcing individuals to pay for a license to sell goods is ridiculous and just an excuse for them to make money and make life difficult for people same ridiculousness as paying for: marriage, dog, drivers, hunting, business, or liquor license.

FBI hiring more people to run background checks and hiring 200 new ATF agents is a waste of money.

To a certain extent background checks and mental health aspects are good but it seems like an excuse to increase government spending and keep track of idividuals

The guy who supplied the guns for the recent terrorist attack in Cali was arrested on multiple charges.

The article phrased the gun arrest for "lying about the intent for the purchase" so I'm guessing that he didn't sell the guns to them but gave to them..which is illegal because that's not what he wrote down.

Paying for a license is ridiculous? You have to pay for a drivers license, a liquor license, and a fishing license. Bybthe way, teachers need a license. Guns are deadly weapons, you should be licensed, end of story.
You are going to just let anyone carry a deadly weapon? Dont tell me they can still use a knife because a knife wont kill 10 people in 30 seconds.

how many unarmed people can you kill with a knife if your used to fighting with a knife in 15 minutes isn't that the cop response time now?

Your examples are stupid. We let anyone carry a deadly weapon now. No law will change that fact. You can make it hard for people who obey the law to get a gun. But not for people who break the law to make some money.

Yes



I know my post said you have to pay




Thank you for adding another license people are required to get to the list, of the have to pay for it then I have the same feeling towards it.



That is fine, making someone buy a license to sell a gun is still dumb and people will be doing transactions "behind closed doors"



I don't know where I implied that, I even said background checks and mental health aspects are a good idea


Any law that is passed will only make life harder for law abiding citizens putting them in greater tisk of being a victim

It is, at best, unclear what impact Obama's dictum will have on private sellers. Apparently, if you are in the "business" of selling firearms, you have to have a FFL. What he means by "business" is problematic--selling two or more guns at a gunshow, or to a dealer?? So far, I see nothing that says you need a license to sell me your gun, or that you have to run a background check on me before you do.

This is Obama, grandstanding to build his "legacy," with another vague, dictatorial Executive Order that'll probably be challenged in the courts:
http://dailycaller.com/2016/01/05/obama-...ell-to-dealers/

Correct. In Cali these laws were already on the books and easily ignored. Most criminal laws exist in order to have something to legally prosecute, but people are unrealistic if they believe they will prevent crime. Short of total confiscation of all guns by a totalitarian police state, I don't see how our version gun control will make much of a difference (it may make a minor difference). Even in a police state there will still be a black market, however in that case the penalty would probably be severe.

The real plan is to someday actuall do this. Total confiscation of all guns by a totalitarian police state. Plus get the gun owners names and addresses so they can round them all up in a short amount of time.

Then control or eliminate them by also controlling the food supply.

If you think this can't happen think again. It has happened in past history.

All you need is a group of sheep who thinks it can't happen.

I could go along with requiring a private gun owner who wants to sell a firearm to a friend to have to use a licensed gun dealer as a middleman and allowing him to charge a very small fee for his time. As I have been told, obtaining a dealers license can be a very expensive proposition. I feel that the obama administration is using gun control issue to divert attention from his total failure to do something about isis. Most intelligent people can figure out that legally licensed gun owners are not the ones committing the crimes. They are afraid of the thugs who are doing it and are afraid to offend them with preventive measures such as stop and frisk.

With the ever expanding government, the whittling away of civil liberties and complacency it is not as far fetched as some may think. Maybe not in the near future but it looks like that is the overall goal

I'm going to buy an assault rifle this weekend in honor of Obama..

Stop and frisk they were doing it to white guys when I was a kid. They could also get rough with you. They could pick you up of the street and ride you around for a while and just drop you off some where.

Monsanto money has been in politics for a while now

http://action.fooddemocracynow.org/sign/...7.512882.z1frl2

Footreads, I hope those days are long gone. I understand that the various police departments have been weeding those cowboys out of the job.
Look at Chicago with the toughest gun laws in the country and they are now saying that this year is off to a terrible start with record shootings. I now live in a small southern city and every day I read about several shootings, none by licensed CCW holders.

In 2006, when I got my CCW, only four CCW holders in the entire state of Arizona were indicted for gun crimes. That follows: someone who goes through the procedure of qualifying for and getting a CCW is by definition a law abiding citizen.

I sold guns for 20 years, as I ran a pawn shop, I would recommend a ruger mini-14, over your aks or sks, very good weapon, you can get 40 rd clips, and you will never have a problem with failure to feed, or reject, if its a ruger made clip. you cant go wrong with a mini-14, it takes a .223 rd
known as a 5.56 nato rd,

B.C., what would I expect to pay for this gun and the clip?

I bought an AR-15 chambered in the normal .223/5.56mm NATO round

I used to sell mini 14s for 450, saw one at wallmart for 750, might try cabellas, should be cheaper, clips are hard to find, but they are out there, advertised in the shotgun news.

excellent choice, I would get all the clips I could get my hands on.

Years ago I was introduced to a guy in Long Island who sold guns illegally.

His house had a real tree in his living room. I thought how does he keep bugs from entering his house.

Any way one of the rooms had a secret door inside he had a collection of everything you could want including silencers, and Machine guns. I asked who are you selling the machine guns to want to start a war?

Now I know why people would want one.

Thanks.

I'll look around.

http://www.latimes.com/nation/nationnow/la-na-cruz-pastor-shot-20160307-story.html

right in my home town, knew the pastor, been in that church,

we are not a big city, AND IT HAPPENS DOWN THE ROAD FROM ME, MY HOME - Coeur d alene Idaho.

It's not the big cities that dominate shootings. In NY it's places like Mount Vernon, Brentwood/Central Islip, or Newburgh that have lots of shootings.

All guns should be banned, its a joke citizens can run around with a loaded handgun or buy an assault rifle...wtf are you planning on taking down?? Total stupidity. And dont give me the constitutional rights crap...relying on hundreds of years old thoughts appropriate at the time and justifying it for now-thats what the religious nuts do as well.

Guns are for those required to shoot things, not Joe Public. And dont gimmie the macho bullshit about defending yourself...99% of gun owners would probably miss or drop the gun before the shit from there pants it the floor.

Utter nonsense, Obama hopefully is making the first step to ban all guns.

Let's say your son had a problem with someone you know about it. Your in your house and the ups guy has a package for you. You open the door to get the package. But the guy is not from ups he is the guy that had a problem with your son. So he shoots you with an illegal gun. Then goes through your house and kills your daughter. Your son is the guy he is looking for but he is not home.

So he leaves then he thinks fuck your son. I killed his whole family that is good enough.

Lets ban all guns. Thats a great idea. Better yet, everybody who owns a gun legally should turn in whatever guns they have in their possession. It wont change anything, except that the bad guys will be the only ones with guns aside from tbe police. While we're banning things, we should ban prostitution, drugs, gambling, kidnapping, tax fraud, murder, espionage, etc... Just because something is banned doesnt mean it will go away. We should ban pussies from existing in this country. They only get in the way. All obama is doing is causing the price of guns to increase. Keep up the great work liberal fags.

I dunno what the obsession is with defending yourself with a gun - it seems to stem from a raging paranoia (because thats exactly how it sounds) that you're likely to be a victim of gun crime. Im sure the media and arms manufacturers promote this. Your not defending the homestead against marauding apaches anymore.

If gun ownership is widespread, it leads to more gun crime - thats why theres a paranoia over defending yourself. You feel you need a gun because your reasonably likely to become a victim of gun crime, no? Cant have it both ways and say the current gun laws DONT increase gun crime....if not, wtf is?? Its something thats just been an ever increasing spiral and Obama is trying to slow it down and turn it around...yes, it'll take decades but it'll be a much safer society.

And for those that that own assault rifles, just hand them in and go buy a little red sports car, that'll hopefully solve the small dick issue - just don't drive to fast or you'll likely kill somebody with that as well

I guess you forgot about that time when I debunked every single one of your talking points and assumptions.. LOl.

Not at all! I never agreed you were correct

What about the fat fucks who dont know how to eat healthy and suffer from a cardiovascular disease? I'd take a bullet to the head rather than suffer with a heart condition. If you're so worried about people dying, start with the biggest killer of all: the bad heart. More people die each year from poor health choices than bullets (exponentially). If you dont like guns, keep your opinions to yourself. If someone breaks into your house you would call the cops for protection. In reality, by the time your heroes come to save you, your wife and kids are dead and you look like a pussy because you did nothing to save them except call for help. You probably drive a Prius as well. Guns arent the problem, criminals are. Maybe if there were mandatory abortions for people who don't have the means to raise a child, you wouldnt have so many criminals. Lol

Cardiovascular disease isn't really the same is it? If fat fucks choose to do it and they aren't bothering anyone else, who cares? I'm not interested in saving the world, but joe public strolling around with a handgun is different...they are mostly amateurs when it comes to handling a gun (unless you think most are professional) ...misjudge a situation which is highly likely and somebody is dead. Not really the same as having a health issue is it. Dunno why you'd rather be shot in the face than have a heart condition which can generally easily managed-you sound a bit crazy.

Keep my opinions to myself? Don't stick a gun in my mouth ok This isn't a gun enthusiast website and in fact the first post in this specific DISCUSSION thread is against gun ownership. Just because someone disagrees with what you say, you shouldn't react but telling them to shut up basically - pretty unreasonable eh? (Keep the safety on!).

Your thought about looking like a pussy because I couldn't protect my family and relied on 'hero' cops just shows how fucked up your thinking is. You'd come out blasting eh, probably shoot your wife in the commotion as well and shit your own pants. Then do 12 years in prison grabbing your ankles for your new homies.

Guns ARE a problem, so are criminals.

Your on to some with the abortion comment...I would go as far though. See previous posts re baby licences.

So anyway, a psychiatrist might read into what you've said in your lat post and conclude you're slightly crazy, unreasonable and have, at least, a mild distrust of authority.....eh how many guns do you own?

Ban all guns? Even guns used for hunting?

Hunting's fine -if you live in 1856 and you need to provide a meal and clothes for your family. Otherwise its unnecessary if done by amateurs. Its not a sport, its a disgusting past time carried out by people who probably wet the bed and set fire to things when they were a kid...

And yet we don't have an epidemic of legal gun owners , "amateurs when handling a gun" going out and killing massive amounts of people.

Beware of sons bearing guns:

Miami (AFP) - A four-year-old boy accidentally shot his mother in the back, leaving the passionately pro-gun woman badly wounded and facing possible charges, Florida officials said Wednesday.

Staunch gun advocate Jamie Gilt, 31, who just a day earlier had boasted online about her toddler's shooting prowess, was cruising down a major thoroughfare with her son in the back when he shot her on Tuesday. The bullet went through the seat cushion.

"Our investigation has revealed that the firearm was legally owned by the victim and the child came to possess the firearm without the victim's knowledge," Putnam County Sheriff's Office said in a statement.

Gilt, who is in a stable condition, was so badly wounded that police detectives have been unable to interview her from her hospital bed.

SoCal, it is significant though, Ive quoted the numbers before for accidental shootings.

As for maniacs on killing sprees...if these people can easily get hold of an arsenal of weapons, there's an issue with weapon control surely? It happens on a regular basis in the States so it does indicate control may well be an issue?

Im trying to think of another example or analogy-cigarettes (you might shoot me down ) are legal and the biggest legal killer. Surely if they were banned (its only an analogy!!) lung cancer rates would drop and generations would eventually be turned off. Same with guns... Make them illegal and, ok criminals will still have a reducing access to them, BUT youngsters wont view them as normal as any other item in a house. it'll not happen soon but surely we need to move away somehow from a society living in a paranoid fear that drives them to own a gun to defend themself?

Olivant, the sad thing is your example means nothing to gun owners. Their constitutional right in this instance is worth more than the ruined or cut short lives of any amount of innocent victims.

Total madness, whats worse is you'll never get an acknowledgement, in any form, of there being a negative issue attached to gun ownership. That in itself raises major alarm bells

Well, nobody denies that accidents happen. But it's extremely rare compared to the millions and millions of gun owners out there. People slip in showers and die, people drown in swimming pools, pit bulls maul children, people drink and drive... You get the point.
Yet, when you look at the majority of the violence out there with guns, the bulk of the problem isn't about some child getting ahold of a gun and shooting a family member. The real problem comes down to bad neighborhoods with gangs and drug dealing. Not the average regular legal gun owners.

The natural comparison is religious fanaticism...

SoCal, Yes, so lets make in more difficult overall to obtain guns, that'll make it more difficult for everyone to get a gun! Its not rocket science...I just cant understand why reasonable sounding people don't get it!!!

Again, its comparable to religious fanaticism...go tell a muslim/christian etc he might be wrong...you'll get the same.

You must want less guns everywhere? So peoples beliefs need to slowly change? Tell me how you would do it?

Inner city hardcore gangs throughout the developed world will always have access to guns, but we can make it more problematic. The answer isn't just to get more tooled up than your perceived enemy

Guns dont kill people, people kill people. Thats Merica! Good luck with disarming this country. When I was 15, there were these two kids that went breaking into cars the previous weekend. On monday they were sitting in the parking lot waiting to leave school. One of the kids started brandishing a derringer they had stolen. Next thing you know, my wrestling match was cancelled bc some thug wannabe accidentally killed his best friend. It was gods way of cleaning up society. When I heard what happened I thought what a bunch of dumb asses. For my 13th bday, my grandfather took me to gun safety class. First and last thing they said "treat eveylry gun as if it is loaded". People dont take the time to get educated on gun safety and I will agree that is a big fucking problem.

Blue, thats some story, and its a shame. You know what though, they were stupid young kids and one got killed. Who knows what way his life might've went. It surely would not have happened if guns were strictly controlled. In saying that, your grandfather was obviously wise at the time and Im sure you are now as well, unfortunately the masses aren't- thats ultimately why you pay crazy tax.

Whatever way, gun ownership, legal and illegal needs to reduce, its a rocky road, full of arguments and tragedies, but people need to keep focussed and concessions must be made on both sides...ffs, everybody basically wants the same result!

Guns dont kill people, people kill people....yes, but the first thought by any judge when an assault or homicide has taken place is did the accused have the tools, intention and ability to commit the crime- we'll never really be able to reduce the latter two but we can at least work on the former.

Are you a vegan? What is really disgusting is how meat industry treats animals and how much harm they do to the world (CO2 emmissions, use of water, and deforestation and lawsuits if you criticize meat products)

I don't know what classifies someone as an amateur hunter, certain number of hours before your graduate from amateur?

Kind of a narrow view in my opinion, when an individual decides to go out and hunt for meat instead of buying production line GMO fed meat doesn't necessarily mean they "set fire to things when they were a kid..." Sounds to me like you don't like letting people live their life.

As I have said before, cities and rural areas are different with each threat. You take away one right, and it weakens the others chances of survival.
Fergie, you are from the city and there is a strong chance you never visited a countryside or been up in the mountains, which is ok, which limits your reasoning as so many others who only have lived in the city.
People still hunt, true most hunt for sport, but there are those out there who do it as a way of life. They don't hunt for a trophy, but as food and materials that come from the animal.
As society advances, so does technology and beliefs. Technology is advancing and their is a view that that the old ways are obsolete. That is not true. When it was revealed that the kept animals for batching were not treated right at the factories and certain ingredients were added to the meats that were not healthy, there was a 17 percent increase for hunting safety course. That speaks volumes.
Yes I own two assault rifles, and they are in a gun safe. I also carry a firearm on me sometimes as I may need it depending where I am going or which shitty neighborhood I will be in that does not have a southern hospitality.
You also seem to think all hunters are Christians. There are also Juws, some Muslim, and a lot of atheists who are hunters. Comedians and satire late night hosts make fun of hunters a lot, you know who I make fun of a lot. Fishers, who catch and release, that is boring, and I would rather be doing something with my time then waste it.

No, I'm not a vegan at all, but your energy might be better placed improving conditions of livestock seeing as you're so aware rather than shooting the odd deer so you can get it up-or whatever buzz you get.

I seriously don't like people who like to shoot live anything. If thats part of living you're life, theres a serious problem between your legs my friend.

Are you the person I see on the front of the magazines, grinning with your baby daughter over the head of a wild deer you shot just so you could come? What a man she'll remember you as.....total arsehole

I don't own a gun have children or hunt don't have any plans to do it but I have friends who do and I'm a firm believer in not trying to tell people how to live unlike you obviously. If you don't like people killing animals why do you eat meat them hypocritical no?

I do enjoy your childish jabs I don't see where anyone has done that to you, typical of someone who doesn't like someone woth another opinio n.

My diet has very little store bought meat when I do from friends who give me what they hunt or from local farms so my energy doeis go towards that.

+1 Giacomo_Vacari

Well you should be a Vegan because a factory farmed animal suffers much more than a deer shot for sport in the Pocono Mountains.

didn't renew my membership in nra, first time in 4o yrs not a member...

always an outspoken proponet of guns, at one time owned 30....

after the school shooting when children were slaughtered, it bothered me.

still, I was for guns, still am, but, wondering more and more, if the availability of guns, is a major part of our problem, I never thought I would say that. but, as I mentioned it happened down the road from me.

i dont care whether guns should be legal or not BUT this is very interesting...A high-profile pro-gun activist was shot in the back by her four-year-old son...karma...it is a bitch!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...seat-truck.html

Well, it's one thing to keep saying generic things about making it harder for bad people to get guns, but what exactly do you propose? Be more specific and maybe we can come to a conclusion.

Also, I'm looking for some kind of consisitancy when I hear arguments from anti gun people. You say something needs to be done about guns because you want to save lives and make society safer. Ok, but do you stop at guns? We can list off a lot of other dangerous things people are allowed to do and buy so if you're consistent you should be trying to ban and restrict much more than guns. Things like alcoholic beverages in your logic need to be banned too, because that's extremely dangerous when abused.
I just want to see consisitancy here.
Otherwise, it might be YOU that is a religious fanatic that just can't stand to see a free person own a firearm.
I'm not religious about it because it isn't faith based on my part. I just have a preference for liberty and choice over safety.

that's emotion not reason.

Medications are probably more to blame for these aggressions. Look at the guy in Astoria with a knife over the weekend. He did not take his meds.

Meds seem to be what is driving so many crazy.

Meds and/or not good enough care when it comes to people suffering from mental illnesses. There's not enough focus on how to help people that suffer from illnesses and there's lack of awareness on how a lot of these meds work. Dealing with bad responses and dangerous withdrawl symptoms. Most people have no idea.
But leave it to the media to make everything about the guns. It's a cheap way to get everyone riled up, and be lazy to not have to think any harder about any other issue. Blaming guns makes it more political and partisan which means very little gets solved.

Speaking of Meds, most of the shooters in Mass shooting had some type of mental illness. Most of the time, authorities say that the shooters was not taking his medication, however there are reports from family, friends and former co-workers who claim that they were taking Meds up to the time of the shooting. Authorities always check the blood to see what was in the person system and don't find what they are looking for the drug components that should be there and are not. A strong possibility is that they were take the drug that the doctor was prescribing them, but it was a new drug they gave them, not the official drug they needed. It was a kickback drug they the doctors got a profit from, in that it was not approved for. Another possibility is misdiagnosis.
There are also the fame seekers.
There needs to be a balance of gun regulation but there is none. It is easy to get a gun in the county, not just from the legal perspective, but from the black-market which will always thrive.

A lot of people talk about the side of effect of these meds but it isn't just what happens when you're on the drug but what happens when you suddenly stop taking them. Withdrawl symptoms can be VERY severe and dangerous. I've seen first hand from a few family members and friends.
It is super common for a newly diagnosed person to start meds and then after several weeks decide they don't want to take them anymore because they think they're fine and don't need them. Next thing you know they quit the meds cold turkey and have severe withdrawl symptoms which often wind up being far worse than the symptoms caused by the initial diagnosis. It can get very serious, very fast.

Binnie, your honest post will likely just be ignored...but good on you for at least being honest.

Boss, Im not really on a crusade against hunting, I just don't understand where the fun is in shooting animals? Why? Its the same as these assholes who go on safari and shoot rhinos etc..wtf fuck? I'd love to throw those people into a lions den, maybe with a knife, and see if they get the same thrill...I'm sure it'd become an olympic sport in the lion word!

Theres no way Id trust an amateur "hunter" with a handgun, they obviously are itching to shoot moving targets.

Dude, you need to start telling people they are wrong. Im all for people being free to do whatever they want but when their actions start to impact or cause threat to others, it needs to be addressed. (And yes, my jabs are sometimes light hearted, childish, never! but for good reason. Its a website, not a pious debating society. Yes, lets gets reasoned arguments, but lets keep it slightly entertaining as well, otherwise you'd be as well sitting down to Noam Chomsky lecture on youtube)

Fair enough.

" Im all for people being free to do whatever they want but when their actions start to impact or cause threat to others, it needs to be addressed."

You won't get me to disagree with that. I believe as you aren't violating someone else's right to love freely then you can do what you want and going out and shooting people is definitely that I won't and have never argued that.
Yes these things happen but saying all gun should be banned is like saying all Muslims are terrorist, the actions of a few don't represent all gun owners or Muslims.

What US should do for starters is to have mandatory sentences for illegal firearms. I think individuals need to be a little smarter if they own a gun, if you have kids don't tell them until they reach an age where they can understand and respect what a gun can do.

If you give your infant child a loaded gun you may deserve being shot in the back, harsh but we will have less stupid people

SoCal, I don't know how more consistent I can be...BAN all gun ownership. Joe Public doesn't NEED a hand gun or an assault rifle! Again, your not surrounded be apaches anymore, times have moved on. Yes, its totalitarian, but so is a ban on heroin etc...I don't hear many junkies screaming about their human rights. Ban guns and move on. Its not about "the man" taking away you're liberty, its about common sense.

People need to ignore the drip fed paranoia about having to defend themselves and start addressing the issue. Again, is your vastly over rated and now unnecessary constitutional right worth more than the life of ONE innocent kid?

Stop with the reason that shooters are just normally lunatics on medication...yes, there's obvious issues but when he can get a gun as easy as a sandwich but thats a wider society issue. You surely don't want your kids growing up in a society where everyone can be armed just because they're paranoid about protecting themselves? Its obviously far easier then for any easy then for any would be Yosemite Sam to start firing when they get pissed off. What then happens? You want more guns...total spiral of shit.

Dude, a religious faith is different. Im not saying every gun owner is a maniac, theres just absolutely no need to own a gun. It makes for a worse society, surely you must agree? Again, you're drip fed nonsense from the media every day about how much danger you're in and the gun trade is a booming market, excuse the pun.

Owning a gun shouldn't be treated as a secret to a kid, like Santa Clause, tell him when he's old enough. Its a lethal weapon and one moment of confusion, just one small brain fart, and somebody is dead. Why would you risk it? Would you be happy keeping heroin or arsenic in your home if it were legal and you had young kids? Course not.

On your last point, its not reasonable to suggest you take it on the chin if your infant kid shoots your wife by accident is it? Again, one moment of forgetfulness and that's it. The wife is dead, your no doubt in prison and the kid gets put into care? Tell me about your constitutional right then..

I do not think owning guns brings society down do I think everyone should own a gun? No. Do I think walking around with a loaded gun on your hip is a good thing? Probably not.

I don't own a gun and my parents didn't and my grandparents didn't, I don't think we are scared and since I take everything the media says with a grain of salt I don't think it influences my life much.

That was what I was trying to say, if you happen to own a gun don't parade it around a child, when they are old enough to understand what a gun is you can properly teach them.

I believe heroin should be legal. If it became legal I wouldn't go out and buy it you probably wouldn't either but people should have a choice to put what they want into their body.

Well if you are going to give an infant a loaded gun and walk away, you probably should deal with the consequences of your actions. Don't want to be shot use common sense don't give your kid a loaded gun. We need to as a society think more and I know people hate to deal with consequences and like to blame other people for their problems and look to "big brother" for the answers


[Edit]

" Yes, its totalitarian"

This is what the 2nd Amendment is for. Not everyone wants big government and I'm in NO WAY advocating violence but if things were to ever get to a point where people need to fight back they can

If it got to the stage people were that unhappy with the government, I don't think they'd be looking for permission to fight back using violence. Check out Syria.

The sad thing is, people would no doubt go crazy if guns were banned. Probably just have to resign yourself to putting up with regular mass shootings and prey your not caught up in it. Your one of the sensible people who don't seem to believe that means tooling up with an assault rifle just incase though.

After I get done working this weekend, im going to come home and load five banana clips (150 rounds), get a six pack, and go to my buddys property and fire off my ak. Don't worry Fergie, I will split the six pack and drink it after I'm finished shooting. Have you ever seen how destructive an ak can be? It is a wonderful yet simple piece of machinery. I have no intentions of committing an act of violence. Some people go to the race track and have fun racing cars ( not Fergie, bc Fergie probably drives a Prius) and I like to go to safe place and shoot some rounds. Guns are here to stay, get over it. Maybe you should go to a firing range and maybe go to a gun safety class and learn about guns before you cry about laws that have existed since the birth of this country.

Ive fired on ranges quite a few times over in Israel actually, mini sub machine guns and semi automatic handguns mainly - I know exactly how destructive they are. Trained on their military base as well a couple of years ago about 20 miles outside a place called Netanya. Getting beasted on a beach on new year's day with military helicopters flying right overhead...ahh the memories!

The main priority isn't really how your getting your kicks firing in a "safe" place, its primarily those wandering around with guns on their hip and in the kitchen drawer.

And I drive a Merc btw

Well atleast you admit to being totalitarian in nature. None of this bullshit " we need common sense gun laws" none sense that most of anti gun people speak which leads to annoying laws that don't amount to anything and save no lives.

But still you didn't list off all the other things that you want banned. Under your logic, ban all alcoholic beverages because it's extremely dangerous and people don't "need" it after all and alcohol is probably more dangerous than herion.
By the way, I'm all for legalizing herion.
I value human choice and freedom over safety.

But since you want to talk about "saving ONE" innocent kid than why do you only factor in kids or people killed by guns but ignore those saved by guns? Oh those saved lives don't Count right?
Just as every now and then a story comes out in the news about some gun accident where a child gets ahold of a gun and someone gets hurt, other stories ( although less talked about in the mainstream media) Come out about someone protecting their lives with a gun. Like a single mother who had two men with knives busting into her home and blasting one of them away with her shotgun while on the phone with a 911 operator. But you say SCREW those people! They shouldn't be allowed to use guns and protect themselves. Right? That women would've been dead in your world.

Well, in order to ban guns and reduce overall fatalities, you need to start somewhere. Your theory is that ownership should continue to increase and this will somehow reduce crime and fatalities, which is pretty crazy. Theres no definitive answer over how many lives gun ownership saves, there obviously is for those killed though....

Theres not much more Id like to ban...I certainly dont value choice over safety, neither do you as there must be some limit to that? We'd have people driving tanks in five years if that was the case.

I don't know why everyone continues to engage fergie. It's a lost cause. I own an assault rifle, I carry a pistol, and I hunt. If you don't like it well, honestly; I really don't give a shit. My guns protect my family and my hunting feeds many people. As for deer, there are more than enough and when there are too many on the roads now and that is all we need is MORE DEER out running the roads and getting pegged. What next? Ban cars?

And fergie save your time responding to me because I'm not replying back. I've said my peace.

Agree Dixiemafia!

Hardly a surprise that the southern states are the ones your most likely to catch a bullet in...

Well yeah. The highest concentrations of African-Americans are in the south and they disproportionately commit gun crimes.

Even in NYC blacks commit about 80% of gun crimes.

In the south it's bad because the weather is warmer.

But in defense of the south, you can go to a monthly gun show in Tampa, Lakeland, Palmetto, or any county, and guess what, no shootings at the gun shows. Why? Because true gun owners and lovers aren't criminals.

Would you start a shoot out at a gun show??

I never said that I think gun ownership "should" increase. I simply don't want to use force against millions of peaceful responsible gun owners and make it difficult for many people to effectively protect themselves.
But since you want to mention theories. Your theory of more guns = more crime or whatever has been debunked many times and you simply refuse to even acknowledge basic facts so there's really no sense in going back and forth with someone that resists or ignores facts.

Why not? All those guns you'd think there would be shootings.

But they rarely do because the element of people who go and support the 2nd amendment aren't the problem.

Binnie, good to see you woke up and noticed the stupidity of the NRA.

Fergie, the same argument can be said of you owning a Mercedes to compensate the lack of something you are missing.

The reason you don't see shootings at guns shows, is that is where you run in to a lot of people who respects firearms who don't view them as a toy. Sure you run into some nut job or wacko there, but that person is being watched or in some cases removed from the premises.

I'm from the South , got diamonds in my mouth

Oh, You don't recall the Father & Son vs Father & Son in a gun store and the shooting that lead to the Owner & Son killed? Look it up , Pearl River Mississippi.

South leads with overall violence compared to the other 3 regions , Wild Wild West behind us though

Right! In 2006, the year I earned my carry permit, only four permit holders were charged with homicides. It follows: People who obey the law by earning CCW's are by definitions law-abiding citizens.

All due respect Turnbull, but what your really saying is that 4 permit holders murdered innocent people and thats relatively good? I say thats bullshit and unacceptable. What went wrong in each case? Is there a failing in the assesment process? Youre saying that carrying guns do cause murders, but because the murder level is relatively low, its worth it? Whats the benefit? You feel more of a man? I don't believe the boost to peoples self esteem carrying guns creates is worth innocent people dying.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/josh-sugarmann/murders-by-concealed-hand_b_632278.html

I'll ignore your insult and tell you that I earned my CCW to be part of a community that uses firearms safely and responsibly. The rigorous CCW course I took was one of the most useful because it emphasized responsibilities over rights, and when not to shoot vs. when to shoot.

I carry when I'm attending religious services or when I'm in public spaces where firearms aren't banned. I've never needed a gun for self-protection--and, please God, I never will. But if some terrorist or psychopath starts shooting, I want to be able to protect my family.

Wow. It's hard to know whether or not you're trolling.

There's over 12.8 MILLION conceal carry permit holders in the country.

Do you understand, or even come close to trying to comprehend the number ONE MILLION, let alone 12 million.

You have no sense of rational weighing of pros vs cons, and absolutely no sense of probability. You haven't the slightest clue of any of these basic things yet you choose to keep pushing your opinion Which isn't backed by any hard evidence or logical reasoning.
If that small amount of incidents is unacceptable to you then we should literally ban everything.
Showers, people slip in showers and die. Unacceptable. Ban them!
Cars, people crash and die, ban them.
Swimming pools, people drown. Ban them.
Knives..


If you want a world with ZERO risks, ZERO chance of danger, you're living on the wrong planet.

Turnbull, sorry if that came across as a personal slight on you, it wasn't intended that way. The things is, if you've never needed it for protection in the whole nearly 10 years now you've carried, it kind of tells a story about the need v probability SoCal refers to in his later post. If its concealed, its not deterring would be attackers either.

SoCal, the things you mention aren't designed with the sole intention of killing people, so there's a difference. Arguably, knives, but most knives have an everyday general purpose and most are perfectly legal in your kitchen drawer.

Jim Jeffries nails every single absurd point thats been made, watch the 2 short clips and lets leave it there

http://youtu.be/0rR9IaXH1M0

http://youtu.be/a9UFyNy-rw4

Guns arent going away. Get over it. When its it's your time to go, you go. Whether it be some little kid gets ahold of their irresponsible parents loaded gun or some guy walking tbe street who forgets to look both ways and gets hit by a motorcycle driven by a father and young daughter and all parties end up with sbeets covering them until the coroner arrives. You cant control fait. If it upsets you when peoeple die, I pity you and suggest you volunteer for hospice and learn how to appreciate death. Every second you're alive should be cherished and appreciated. You fucking idiots are worried about gun control? Go protest in front of the white house in regards to global nuclear armaments. My dad taught me when I was young that you cant always get your way. So shut up and deal with it because nobody likes listening to a whiner. As I said before guns are here to stay. I wish that they would invent the fucking hoverboard from BTTF2, but you don't see me complaining to Universal for not getting my way. You just have to keep the faith and maybe one day your dreams will come true. But until you get your way,SHUT THE FUCK UP BECAUSE NOBODY LIKES A WHINER!

Well lets wind it up then, it obviously gets a few peoples panties in a twist when somebody speak their mind, or whine as you say. Ill just remember to keep your advice in mind when the next mass shooting soon comes rolling around - its was just peoples fate so fuck it, as long as they cherished their short time.

And I hope you keep your advice in mind next time you read about the victims of a home invasion, carjacking or rape, or of those killed in a mass shooting when you would have wished you or someone there had a gun to protect you, your family or some poor innocent soul.

My barber wanted me to get his daughter a gun for protection.

I asked him why does she thinks she needs it. He said no reason she just wanted one.

I told him are you sure nothing bad has happened to her.

I told him you better sit her down and talk to her. I am pretty sure something bad has happened to her. No one would ask for a gun for no reason.

I also told him I won't get one for her. If she did use it I would be the first one she would give up. He said she would not. I said who am I to her? She would give me up in a heart beat.

Fergie would want a gun if something happen to her or it. I don't know if Fergie is a girl or and it? Maybe both.

I garauntee in a few generations gun ownership in the USA will change entirley and be viewed as seriously is slavery is these days. Unfortunately it will either be as a result of continued and increasing instances of gun massacres which will eventually change the majority public perception or as a result of some larger scale incident in which the government will have to take immediate action.

Those that then (and now) fantasise to varying extents about subsequently taking part in a "well regulated militia" will no become the witless victim of future and increasingly strict anti-terror laws and no doubt just get cut down by a few drones.

Until then though, I suppose youll just have to keep living in a state of abject paranoid fear about some daily threat of home invasion, murder and rape. That seems to be the recurring thread for owning a gun or 6. Pretty damn sad actually.

What we worry about is a socialist state. First thing they do is take away people's guns. To keep everyone in line they take away the food supply.

I cant see anyone disarming America, its just not going to happen, my god! can you imagine the black market with the buying and selling of guns in this country......

further... the man who shot the pastor in my city, was an ex-marine with no criminal record, or history of violence.

as long as guns are sold things are going to happen, because no one can change some one elses mindset.

but the NRA is going to have to bend on many issues.

The NRA certainly will have to bend...it could maybe start by emblazoning the full sentence of the amendment, rather than deliberately just the latter half over the front of its headquarters...but there's good reason they've done that. I'm pretty sure it wasn't just to save space on the wall either.

Foots, Its a bit of a leap to think once your future kin do have their "right" removed which they will (and won't miss), that the government will then use that as a precursor to begin starving its population. Sure, its been done directly and indirectly across most of central america, parts of south east asia and the middle east over the years and maybe thats why you would conclude that, but Im not sure what would be gained in implementing that type of foreign policy in its own country....

Why isn't the NRA at the forefront of effective gun control...to get the illegal guns off the street; to remove the assault weapons from the general public; to finance discovery programs to root out illegal guns; to create national policies to eliminate assault weapons..etc. etc.,,,,why? because it would take money out of their pockets. Straight up, simple. They survive on gun ownership and don't give a shit about your safety; your life, liberty and pursuit of happiness.

Speaking of Gun control, here is the most insane thing I've ever read. This government approved an undercover operation that sold guns to the Mexican cartels, it was called Fast and Furious, This government approved operation scattered all types of guns all throughout Mexico and the US. First, one of the guns was used to kill a border patrol officer and now one of them was found belonging to El Chapo. Does anybody know what was the outcome of this case and of the fallout if any? Did anybody go to jail or we just armed the Cartels with thousands of weapons including .50 caliber sniper rifles?

http://nypost.com/2016/03/16/rifle-found-at-el-chapo-hideout-tied-to-fast-and-furious/

If they did these things, they would be worthless and wouldn't be doing their jobs.

If anything the NRA is too soft. They should be far more radical in their defense of gun owenrship. I'm not even an NRA member because to me they aren't pro gun enough.

I mean why the Hell would anyone support the NRA if they start pushing more gun control?

SoCal, the NRA for most of its history was in no way interested in a constitutional right to bear arms. Its former president, Karl Frederick, didnt even believe citizens should be allowed to carry weapons. It was a moderate organisation based on the interests of hunting and marksmanship. However, during the 70's and 80's with increasing inner city violence, it was taken over in a coup by hardliners. The organisation morphed into one which started then screaming that gun violence can only be solved with more guns. There then became an obvious and selfish, politically power hungry agenda and the steady increase of gun ownership has correalated directly with gun crime and death ever since, that is a fact and its utter nonsense to think otherwise. The real problem now with any form of gun control is that the US is so far down the path of guns being freely avaiable that any restriction does indeed end up with criminals having the upper hand. But it needs to start somewhere and a hardline approach taken from every angle.

The NRA now have the balls to have also branched out across the globe, targetting their message towards the UN and international arms treaties. They view laws that are designed to reduce armed conflicts as potential burdens on a scewed universal right to own guns. It has also softened public opinion, as a result, of disasterous US foreign policies. The implications are everywhere...

Its become too powerful an organisation with too much to lose and it has successful bred fear and paranoia amongst US citizens in order to maintain this power. Youve got people in there who have immensly benefitted personally and financially from the NRAs message and have to much to lose...don't kid yourself, there's no genuine interest in your civil liberties and stopping gun massacres. Every massacre lines their pockets even deeper...its the biggest slight of hand ever played on the US public...a very clever, extremely capitalist scheme, but entirley devoid of any moral integrity....and millions have sadly been duped by it.

First of all, I'm not a member of the NRA, I don't pay attention to the NRA, and I'm not a constitutionalist. I just hope they don't start to fold even more and start making BS compromises on guns.
I really don't get it. People in the country love their guns and right to own them. It's not because of the damn NRA. This boogie man NRA stuff is silly. The NRA and other organizations are there as a result of millions of gun owners that want it there, it isn't the other way around.

Your bogus claim that increasing gun ownership has led to more inner city violence has been debunked time and time again but you stick to it like a religious fanatic that can't be shaken in the face of the hardest evidence that your religion is a fraud.

Look man, I'm not that old but I'm in my early 30s. I've been around street gangs and have been studying gangs and crime my entire life.
I know about and remember the early 90s.
I remember when crime and murder skyrocketed. I seen first hand the dramatic drop in crime for over a 20 year period.
Don't try to tell me that more guns caused more deaths and crime because it's like telling me don't believe my own eyes, don't believe my own experience and don't believe the actual statistics.
My parents grew up on the east side of LA and in the valley in the 70s and gang murders happened all the time in this days. Nobody used so called "assault rifles" to kill, it was mostly all shotguns small pistols and knives . This idea that "assault rifles" are the real problem is bogus too. You ban one type of weapon and you solved nothing.

Sure, this past year there has been a small uptick in crime again, but that's just this one year. Point is, there's many factors that influence crime and violence. And you people that go after guns are completely worthless when it comes to solving the root causes. You simply don't care about solving the hard problems. You just blame the guns and move on. I can't do that because I care too much.

The NRA have been running a scam since at least the so called cincinatti revolt in 1977 in which hardliners threw out the existing NRA board who were moderate, in favour of hunting and marksmanship and felt it completely removed from the 2nd amendment. There was no mention at all before then of the 2nd amendment. After 77, the NRA began to dupe gun owners, playing on the fear of crime and owners love of guns. It became all about civil liberties and personal protection - thats when the true meaning of the amendment got pissed all over. Now you look at their magazine and your reminded of the 2nd amendment constantly. Why? So readers are drip fed how important it is (to the NRA).

Reagan was against guns until the NRA helped put him in power, then he was pro guns. Theyve become too powerful a political organisation to trust and are answerable to nobody bar their own membership. Local and state politicians are routinely harrassed and lobbied. Again, gun violence is great for the NRA as the membership just increases after every incident...they keep feeding the beast basically. Now, as I said before, theyre even trying to assert some authority with the UN...this was essentially a sporting organisation 40 years ago! You don't think there's any democratic threat? Whoever linked the 2nd amendment to carrying guns for personal safety basically won the lottery...

When I mentioned inner city crime, I'm certainly not saying guns were the cause, far from it, I DO know the deal - the NRA definetly was though saying that though and this is what it used and still does every day to increase people paranoia, gun ownership and in turn, automatic membership to their organisation.

Its really difficult I suppose to argue definitvely that increasing gun availability increases gun violence as you can provide statisitcs which will prove nearly any point you want to make....however, the USA has the largest gun ownership and the largest gun crime rate per head of anywhere in the developed world...thats not really debateable...yes, you could say if theres more cars for instance there might be more car accidents etc...but guns are designed to kill people and they're doing theyre job well...

The american public have been duped, without a doubt and its terrible. Turnbull says he's carried a gun for personal protection constantly for 10 years and never felt required to use it. Perhaps he does have a love of marksmanship and guns anyway which is fair enough, but to feel there's that much of a daily threat that you need to be armed almost constantly (theres no point sometimes being able to defend youself is there, thats like sometimes wearing a seatbelt) is a shame. There's millions more doing the same for no real reason or threat other than whats drip fed through the NRA directly and indirectly.

Irregardless of whether or not the NRA is right or wrong, or what its history is, it's not the only gun lobbying organization out there. Gun Owners of America is another large organization that's even more pro-gun than the NRA.

Second, again irregardless of the above, people have a natural right to self-defense. The biggest non-criminal purpose for firearms is not hunting or collecting, but self-defense/protection (which includes the defense of loved ones/family and friends and employers). The right of self-defense is an inherent right that is codified in the US Constitution, but even if it was not there it doesn't mean it wouldn't exist as a right. John Locke and Montesquieu discussed this right before the American Constitution existed as something that is natural to all living beings. If an animal is attacked by another, that animal is within its rights to defend itself. Humans have a right to defend themselves against criminals who want to harm them. Criminal by choice choose to ignore the law so are able to carry any weapon they want for the purpose of threatening or harming others. Why shouldn't the victim of the criminal be able to fight back with equal or greater force? By banning guns you take away that right UNLESS you take away all the firearms from the criminals first. Please tell me how that is even possible.

+1

Your last point is the most important issue and the first which will need to be answered when people start down the path of reducing sale,and ownership of guns. No one surely likes carrying a gun for self defence and would prefer not to do so.

Frame it initially on misuse, very severe mandatory sentences for crimes in which a gun is used or for people found in possession of a fire arm that shouldnt have one. Total no tolerance approach.

Tackle the culture - vastly increase funding for youth education and diversionary activities. Have the NRA itself and other organisation become far more financially and publicly pro-active in this area, otherwise they are disbanded. Get them into local communities where gun violence is an issue and working with community groups, otherwise they are disbanded. Also get tough political measures in place that take away ANY political influence these groups have or seek to have...harsh prison sentences for individuals found lobbying or bribing government officials.

Itll take a generation of just trying to change the culture before any attempt could be made to reduce the sale and ownership though...

fergie, you don't understand the American legal system.

1) People already are sent to jail or prison for illegal possession of a firearm. Felons are not allowed to own nor possess them. I suppose we could create mandatory minimum sentences of ten years or so for each violation.

2) You can't disband a private organization. In the US Constitution we have something called "freedom of assembly." That means groups of like-minded individuals are allowed to meet unless it's a criminal conspiracy. You can't make the NRA do what you want.

3) Something else to think about: the NRA, which you clearly don't like, has a membership of almost all law-abiding members (I can't say all for statistical reasons). The people who are breaking the law, killing people with guns, are not NRA members. (For the record, I'm not a member of any gun organization.)

Faithful, yes, there must be mandatory minimum sentences. I know this doesn't put hardened crimianls off, but again, its about drip feeding the message through generations.

Its true I don't have time for the NRA, but I honestly am not taking a pop at the vast majority of its membership who I think have just been duped and misled down the years. The NRA (and similar organisations) are directly responsible for the vast increase in gun ownership and, as a result, indirectly for illegal ownership. Thats why they should be pro actively contributing towards reduction in gun crime where in matters. Why should they though I suppose, thats exactly how they increase their membership and feed them propaganda and fear of attack.

If the government focussed its attention after public opinion begins to change, they could disband a private organisation like this. Thats what amendments and executive orders are for I think and its not a stretch to imagine sometime soon after a major incident that this will happen...it has throughout even recent history. The only issue is that the arms trade is hugely profitable to people in power.

And I mean indirectly responsible due to the ongoing message that guns are good, normal and needed for protection...even kids are encouraged to learn the message. Not a great message to send, especially to would be criminals

When we were kids before we got real guns. Toy guns were the toys everyone wanted for Christmas. The ones that kids wanted the most was Mattel guns like the snub nose 38. I had none because Daddio never bought anything for me.

Then someone found out you could make a real 1 shot zip gun out of it. Then all of a sudden you had very young gang members with zip guns.

All the Matel guns that shot plastic bullets like that could be made into a zip gun. Snub nose 38 was the best easies to conceal.

Fergie seems to have a solid hard on for gun control. Why fergie? Did you wake up one day hating guns or did something happen to you or someone close to you involving a gun. You are relentless on this topic. Wait until we can get some lasers like they had in the GI Joe cartoons. Then the guns you so deeply hate will be obsolete like a cassette player. There have been many good points made cor keeping guns. Your points suck and have holes in them. Give it up.

Cassette tapes are obsolete. I even have an eight track player and VCRs

Nearly everyone on this site who is pro-gun control is reluctant to say anything as they know you mostly get shouted down by chest thumping, half paranoid, posters screaming about civil liberties at every opportunity..I don't give a shit about that though to be honest and so i'll say it...someone should. Its a sad day anywhere when nobody feels they can speak out is it not? The 2nd amendment suits, but the 1st seems to get some people shooting in their pants with anger at every turn when its gun control.

Not once, even once, has there been a post from a pro-gun poster in any way acknowledging theres any weight whatsoever in the pro-control side. That's extremely worrying and exposes a huge level of ignorance and selfishness.

Interesting, balanced article...read it...

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/mar/15/so-america-this-is-how-you-do-gun-control

Well to be fair I haven't seen much being said about gun control other than ban all guns, I think you would find discussion about gun control less worrying if ways to stop gun violence were actually being discussed instead of, "ban all guns," "you own a gun? What are you compensating for?" " you hunt, you are a monster for hurting animals."

The problem with even raising the topic of gun control is that the pro-gun posters simply cannot budge...as a pro-control poster, I ideally want them banned, but I certainly think there's potential for common ground. If it's for a specific sport and possibly controlled hunting well lets see. Ive already mentioned above what penalties Id like to see if guns are to stay and what Id like gun lobby groups to do in communities blighted by gun violence.

Show me a post from a pro-gun poster that suggests any hint of compromise?

Im certainly no bleeding heart liberal or "whiner" just look at some of my previous posts. No wonder politicians who are pro-control DON'T speak out and progress hasn't been made. Even on website like this you get pilloried for that opinion

When I was very young Daddio had more then one gun.

I would take one of them outside into the iron place horse barn after they left for work.It was a scrape iron business they still use horses to pull their carts back then.

We used to shoot the east river rats that were in that barn. That's where I learned to shoot. It was the same barn where Joe valachi used to live after his family throw him out according to Daddio.

What year was this?

1904...joe valachi was a baby at the time...:)

I did that around 1946 or 1947

He was about 6 yrs older then my Daddio

I like how pro gun people are always labeled paranoid as opposed to the anti gun people who are terrified at the idea of fellow citizens and non-criminals being able to own guns. Oh that's not paranoia at all, right.

Its true though, there is a level of paranoia if you walk around with a gun holstered, simply because you feel the chances of you being a victim that particular day is high enough..thats paranoia, especially when millions of other fellow citizens think thats ridiculous. The NRA like to remind you of the need for self defence in every issue though...

Im not paranoid about people owning guns because its simply not something I need to think about every single day, just like Im not paranoid about a home invasion or being murdered or child abuse or world poverty. They are all issues I don't want to happen, but they don't make me paranoid and take up a regular part of my day. But being a gun owner does and should.....is the safety on, is it locked away safely tonight, who's that guy in the street? Ffs, carrying a gun could put you in jail for 30 years if you made a split second error of judgement...

How many legal gun owners keep there gun owners in safes do you think? How is it then useful for self defence seeing as the majority can only keep them at home? Utter nonsense...all it does is add imaginary inches to your dick

Read "keep their guns in safes" last paragraph...not gun owners..just a freudian slip

All I'm saying is that it easily goes both ways. If gun owners are paranoid for wanting guns for protection than anti gun people are paranoid because they're scared to death of other civilians owning guns and constantly fear mass shootings. So if one group is paranoid than the other is equally paranoid. That's all I'm saying.

fergie, it's interesting that because I explain to you how the American legal system works, you launch a personal attack about paranoia and penis size. You claim that you want a reasonable discussion and a meeting of the minds, but it seems that you just want to bulldoze your opinion over the facts.

First, again, a President cannot make an executive order to ban a private group. A U.S. President is Constitutionally limited and does not have that kind of power. One of the reasons this country was founded was to have freedom of assembly. With few exceptions, anybody can form any group they want for almost any reason. If you're okay with banning groups that you don't like because you disagree with them, then you might as well move to Iran, because you and that government agree on this issue. We just don't do that here because it is one of our Constitutional protections. Plus, I've been discussing this in a very civil manner with you. I've kept it friendly, so I don't appreciate the personal attacks and I suggest you stop doing them.

Second, although I'm not a member of the NRA, it has done a lot of good in providing training and education. During the civil rights era when Blacks faced Jim Crow discrimination, segregation and even lynching, NAACP leader Robert Williams founded his own chapter in 1957 and called it the Black Armed Guard to fight off the Klan. Again, show me names of NRA members who have been involved in committing crimes since you are so determined to demonize this group.

Third, the biggest group that encourages the use of guns -- especially the criminal use -- is the entertainment industry. Violence is glorified in films, television and in music. If you want to point the finger at a group for the spread of gun violence, there's your target.

All good points.

I've tried to make actual arguments in defense of my position. I'm not "shouting" Fergie down in anger and paranoia. Chest thumping? I'm not angry at ALL. Passionate yes, not angry, not shouting. Just a guy posting on a forum through my phone. Lol.