Idiotic, dangerous, outdated, and stupid, naive, bravado
Idiotic - 3/4 population don't even know where Spain is, or travelled outside their country (but are somehow qualified to vote on bombing others) Outdated - Indians are no longer a threat...they all got shot Stupid - everybody basically can own a gun, thats why so many innocent kids are killed (and see idiotic) Naive/Bravado- Arguably, its bred the bravado thats created the balls out, take over the world attitude the the USA has
Gun free zones where guns are banned are idiotic and dangerous, I will concede that. Especially in a country where there's already millions and millions of guns.
Idiotic, dangerous, outdated, and stupid, naive, bravado
Idiotic - 3/4 population don't even know where Spain is, or travelled outside their country (but are somehow qualified to vote on bombing others) Outdated - Indians are no longer a threat...they all got shot Stupid - everybody basically can own a gun, thats why so many innocent kids are killed (and see idiotic) Naive/Bravado- Arguably, its bred the bravado thats created the balls out, take over the world attitude the the USA has
Mmm Hmm. So take guns out of the hands of law abiding citizens who could use them for self-defense. Meanwhile, the criminals (who couldn't care less about your pie in the sky view of the world) will remain armed and free to prey on them. Is that your plan? I hope you're the victim of a home invasion sometime. Have fun fending them off with a broom or frying pan.
There you have it folks. Liberalism truly is a mental disorder.
Somehow most countries don't have the daily, senseless shooting of people. Why? Because they don't have guns. Human nature and human perversion manifest itself with opportunity act out. Introduce a gun and it brings out the worst of society. And in a free society the scum rises to the top. Guns are a catalyst.
Did you ever hear of a drive by throwing? Example: a man suffered a laceration to his chest when he was a victim of another senseless drive by knife throwing.
Somehow most countries don't have the daily, senseless shooting of people. Why? Because they don't have guns. Human nature and human perversion manifest itself with opportunity act out. Introduce a gun and it brings out the worst of society. And in a free society the scum rises to the top. Guns are a catalyst.
Did you ever hear of a drive by throwing? Example: a man suffered a laceration to his chest when he was a victim of another senseless drive by knife throwing.
Not true.
Many other variables are responsible for violence and killings.
Cities and states throughout the USA that have the least gun control laws and more gun owners have some of the lowest crime rates. If what you're saying was true, than towns where the most people legally own and carry would be among the most violent. It simply isn't the case.
Also, many other countries are far more violent than the US. Mexico, Russia, Brazil, to name a few.
Somehow most countries don't have the daily, senseless shooting of people. Why? Because they don't have guns. Human nature and human perversion manifest itself with opportunity act out. Introduce a gun and it brings out the worst of society. And in a free society the scum rises to the top. Guns are a catalyst.
Did you ever hear of a drive by throwing? Example: a man suffered a laceration to his chest when he was a victim of another senseless drive by knife throwing.
i'd like to offer a sincere thanks to people like yourself...thanks for continuing to stir the pot with your fantasy far left utopia, we wouldn't ever have seen such a spike in the # of guns being sold as well as the ever increasing # of people getting their concealed carry permits! the more you push, the more you lose! self reliance is coming back in a big way!
to all the eurotrash who think it's cute to mock the right to self defense, you're going to be in for a rude awakening in the coming decades. have fun dealing with certain fanatical religious groups with your rape whistles and perp dye while your overlords laugh at you!
Somehow most countries don't have the daily, senseless shooting of people. Why? Because they don't have guns. Human nature and human perversion manifest itself with opportunity act out. Introduce a gun and it brings out the worst of society. And in a free society the scum rises to the top. Guns are a catalyst.
Did you ever hear of a drive by throwing? Example: a man suffered a laceration to his chest when he was a victim of another senseless drive by knife throwing.
i'd like to offer a sincere thanks to people like yourself...thanks for continuing to stir the pot with your fantasy far left utopia, we wouldn't ever have seen such a spike in the # of guns being sold as well as the ever increasing # of people getting their concealed carry permits! the more you push, the more you lose! self reliance is coming back in a big way!
to all the eurotrash who think it's cute to mock the right to self defense, you're going to be in for a rude awakening in the coming decades. have fun dealing with certain fanatical religious groups with your rape whistles and perp dye while your overlords laugh at you!
Problem is the delusional libs in Europe are often a bellwether to what the ones in the US ultimately want.
During the Dem debate last week, the candidates were falling over themselves mouthing politically correct gibberish about holding gun manufacturers liable for gun crimes. They don't cause the problem--it's the criminals who get guns illegally, and the psychos who should never have had access to firearms in the first place. Analogy: we hold automobile makers liable for manufacturing or design defects that harm or kill people. But we don't hold them liable for injuries or deaths caused by drunk, or incompetent, or unlicensed drivers, or morons who text while driving or who race others on public streets--and we shouldn't.
The idea that anyone would discuss holding gun manufacturers responsible for any crime committed by someone using a gun, just makes my head want to explode.
The obvious answer is to have more rigorous tests and laws for those who want to own a firearm. The right to bear arms harks back to a time when people did have to defend themselves against reasonable threats..it's hardly the case now...
You don't think that someone breaking into your home and potentially raping and/or murdering family members is a reasonable threat? Look at the newspapers from any large city on any given day to see just how often it happens. You would leave them defenseless.
Harks back to a time? Like when? The late 80s/early 1990s?
I don't get it.
Better testing? Aslong as millions of guns are out in circulation there's no way to stop somebody from buying guns on the black market. How do you put an end to that?
I'm sure Bernie was mentioning Sig Arms when he mentioned a gun maker in his home state. People could sue Sig Arms all they want, what good is it going to do? Criminals will continue to get weapons. It's not like companies like Sig are selling to criminals, shit they make a LOT MORE dumping off to dealers than they would get on the black market any ways with the exception of maybe New York but I doubt a company like that is that stupid. So I don't see where companies like that are liable in the U.S.
Just like a case in Milwaukee I think it was last week where two cops sued the dealer because they were caught on their own camera making a straw purchase to a black guy that shot two cops in the face (they lived). Hopefully they bankrupt and put the dealer in jail... They knew the kid was only 18.
at the end of the day, some people just loathe self defense and seek out a government that will lay out their decisions for them much like a mother does with school cloths for a 6 y/o. they also want a government that, much like that same mother, will promise them that everything will be ok despite how unrealistic that approach is when grown adults are concerned.
the people who always argue for more/tougher restrictions are always the ones with the least amount of knowledge about both the restrictions already in place as well as guns themselves, thus why they are so easily manipulated by shady politicians and their talking heads in the media. all they do is parrot whatever narrative and key words are given to them, a problem much bigger than just the gun debate.
then we have things like this that just further reinforce the "where there's a will, there's a way" logic always lost on people who blame certain objects they dislike, not people. all i can say is that hopefully they are are able to arrest the knives responsible and put them in prison where they belong!
"Nine suspects are being pursued after they launched a coordinated knife attack and killed 50 workers at a northwestern Chinese coal mine"
A time when you were battling the indigenous people basically, that's when the constitution was written. It's ridiculous that anybody can own a gun, just crazy...to say that people would just buy them on the black market is a feeble excuse, just legalise drugs in that case? The thousands of innocent people being killed every year is reason enough to ban idiots owning guns
Actually the war on drugs has been an absolute disaster and ironically much of the so called "gun violence" is tied to the idiotic war on drugs. So yes, legalize all drugs and allow people to do what they want with their body and treat drug abuse for what it is: A medical issue. Think of all the lives ruined because of the war on drugs and now people like you want to do the same with guns. The fact that people can still buy on the black market is actually an incredibly good point, but you choose to dismiss it with no real argument as to why. All the millions upon MILLIONS of responsible gun owners in the country deserve an answer from people like you as to WHY they should be punished and have their guns taken away or restricted while criminals would still be able to buy guns and be armed.
A gun is designed to kill other humans that's why idiots shouldn't be able to handle them, a knife generally isn't...ones that are, are illegal in any case
So the millions of responsible gun owners out there that have never harmed anyone and never will should not have guns even though criminals will still be able to get guns?
Well logically, if innocent NON-criminal gun owners turn in their guns and criminals are left to carry guns, how are innocent people supposed to fight back against armed criminals?
Secondly, the main benefit of having an armed community of law abiding citizens owning and carrying guns is the deterrent factor, not the amount of times you wind up actually having to shoot somebody.
Fight back against armed criminals? You make it sound like the wild west...rarely do any shoot outs occur I would imagine. If someone breaks into your house, firstly you'd be lucky to find your gun, secondly, he's no doubt far more willing to use it than you and, knowing that homeowners are regularly armed, no doubt leads to more getting shot. I don't have a gun and feel perfectly safe...whys that? Because the likelyhood of an armed housebreaker is extremely low-simply because the UK hasn't upped the anti with gun ownership because of some archaic, irrelevant law.
Untrained civilians shouldn't have guns, simple as that. They're more likely to shoot themselves than a burglar if the situation happened
this is the type of cookie cutter response that i've come to expect from those who project their own irrational fears and lack of knowledge onto those who they disagree with. just because you aren't comfortable with firearms doesn't mean that others aren't, we have 100 million gun owners here, many of whom are former law enforcement, military, or just grew up with guns and are more than comfortable with their operation. crime has been on a steady decline here in america for decades while the number of guns as well as concealed carry permits has been on a steady rise. the info is out there if you're interested, but knowing how the media in our country portrays gun owners for the most part i'd imagine the impression you get over there is that it's impossible to leave your house here without getting gunned down so stick with the narrative the suites you!
at the end of the day be glad you live in a country where self defense is illegal, i'll be glad i don't. why waste any time trying to preach to AMERICANS on an AMERICAN message board where most of the members are AMERICANS how they should live? how would it go over if i was on a BRITISH message board and did the same?
this pretty much says it all right here, you guys have been totally neutered over there and instead of fighting back, you stick your collective heads in the sand and shit on a still somewhat free country where people are allowed to protect themselves. these next few decades in europe are going to be very interesting, i have a feeling those who harp on our 2nd amendment being outdated are going to have a much different view when achmed gets serious!
"The only fully legal self defence product at the moment is a rape alarm."
People can, and do defend themselves against home invaders. Not everyone that breaks into your home has a gun either, sometimes they are unarmed or have a knife. Better to be armed than risk having someone hurt you or your family. Having a firearm doesn't help or fix every situation but it puts the odds in your favor.
And the most important thing to remember in all this is the deterrent factor. Criminals would rather not hassle breaking into homes where the likelyhood of the victims are armed is high.
Just like mass shooters would rather find a gun free zone where they can murder at will, unchallenged, at least until the guys with guns show up( police).
You miss the point though, I don't need a gun to feel safe...you seem to though! There's no real threat of gun attacks in the UK...because guns are basically illegal. And as for untrained firearm owners...I've posted the figures before about accidental shootings every year and they are outrageous.
As for posting on a US board...I couldn't care less if you posted on a UK board...if you're offended in anyway because somebody outwith your town has an opinion, tough shit! What's the problem?
You live in the UK. I grew up in the gang capital of the US.
Even if somebody doesn't approach me with a gun, it's actually fairly common to be approached or threatened with a knife. I rather be legally able to defend myself with a gun than have to fight off a guy with a knife.
serious question here, how familiar are you with your own laws? i highly doubt you are even a fraction as knowledgeable on them as i am and i don't even live there. examples of uk legal firearms under a section 1 firearms certificate...
ruger 10-22 semi-automatic rifle chambered in .22lr with 25 round bx-25 magazine...
various saiga-12 12 gauge shotguns with detachabke box magazines, as long as the barrel is 24 inches its perfectly legal...
savage model 111 chambered in .338 lapua which is very similar to the gun used to make the longest confirmed kill in history at over 1.6 miles, which funny enough is held by a brit. there might be some cosmetic restrictions as far as muzzle breaks are concerned, but otherwise this rifle is perfectly legal...
one of the many silly long-barrled pistols which along with black powder and certain historical models, are perfectly legal "handguns" in the uk, although regular modern designs are allowed in both the isle of man as well as northern ireland...
All need to be locked up securely and can be inspected at any time. Also, the actual application process for a gun license is far more rigorous than other countries.
Guns are owned here for target shooting at gun clubs and that's basically it. You don't have Joe public sitting around with 13 guns in their bedroom....
All need to be locked up securely and can be inspected at any time. Also, the actual application process for a gun license is far more rigorous than other countries.
Guns are owned here for target shooting at gun clubs and that's basically it. You don't have Joe public sitting around with 13 guns in their bedroom....
Lol what does having a law saying that the firearm must be locked up securely have to do with a criminal minded person deciding to use the gun for a crime??
I live in California and we have a similar law. Guns inside the home are supposed be unloaded and locked securely and separate from the ammo. Brilliant law that stops gang bangers in South Central Los Angeles from shooting at one another.....or not.
But notice how these comparisons always use these bogus term of "developed countries." Which allows you to cherry pick which countries count and don't count. Which is another way of avoiding any other variable besides gun ownership.
It also compares the entire US to many other countries of different sizes in populations and cultures. If you broke down the US by states or even cities, you'd get a far different picture.
If you think Utah and California are the same, you're wrong. And if you think Norway and Los Angeles are the same than you're surely mistaken. We have more in common with Mexico than Europe in many ways.
There is no sense in even trying to explain anything FF, all she is going to come back with is "we're gun toting hillbillies" blah blah blah. Just another Brit that thinks they are better than us out here drawing guns and pointing them at each other every day just begging to shoot each other.
Not at all Dixie...every other civilised country thinks it's madness that there's so many shootings and massacres but still nothing is done. The macho need to "defend" yourself with a fully automatic weapon against some perceived threat is strange as well...all because of some 200 year old constitutional amendment that was written by guys who owned slaves.
The US is a great country but it's obviously a subject which difficult for you all to agree amongst yourselves with, never mind someone from another country! I suppose if everyone in my street/town owned a gun, Id probably feel the need to have one as well...but it'd hardly reduce the chance of catching a bullet at some point
The two cities with the highest murder rates--Washington DC and Chicago--were those in which it was impossible for law-abiding citizens to own handguns. The Supreme Court, in two decisions aimed at both cities, finally established that gun ownership is an individual, as well as communal, right.
The US is a great country but it's obviously a subject which difficult for you all to agree amongst yourselves with, never mind someone from another country!
How is that? It seems most to all Americans on this board agree. It's just you screaming in two different threads about how bad and ignorant we are. I also refuse to fuss with someone who does NOT live here about our laws. You wouldn't understand where we come from nor how we think and why we think that way.
As for your machine gun comment it is actually pretty rare for most Americans to own machine guns. Matter of fact I don't even think I KNOW anyone that owns a machine gun and here in the South EVERYONE owns a gun, but according to you we all have to have one right?
Not at all Dixie...every other civilised country thinks it's madness that there's so many shootings and massacres but still nothing is done. The macho need to "defend" yourself with a fully automatic weapon against some perceived threat is strange as well...all because of some 200 year old constitutional amendment that was written by guys who owned slaves.
The US is a great country but it's obviously a subject which difficult for you all to agree amongst yourselves with, never mind someone from another country! I suppose if everyone in my street/town owned a gun, Id probably feel the need to have one as well...but it'd hardly reduce the chance of catching a bullet at some point
Oh fuck off.
Seriously, the last we need is some jerkass telling us how "uncivilized" we are because we believe in the right to bear arms.
You miss one key concept in all this: context. Our Constitution is unlike any other on this earth, provides for checks and balances between the executive, legislative and judicial.
And just for the record, not every Founding Father owned slaves, nor did all condone slavery. The only reason it was allowed to continue was to compromise the Southern delegates.
You also fail to realize they lived in a time where black people were not considered the same as whites. Unfortunate but that's how it was back then. You really think the rights and standards of black African slaves were a priority in 1787?
1). I said every OTHER civilised country...the obvious inference there is that the US is also civilised...of course it is! Your just degenerating the discussion 2). It does provide checks and balances but it is over 200 years old and parts are not particularly relevant now 3) I know not every founding father did own slaves or indeed agree with slavery, but some did...the point being, their thoughts and actions were based on an entirely different outlook of the world 4). The need to defend your home against marauding hordes, the plague, lynching slaves, hangings, shootings..."its just the way it was back then"...EXACTLY...so change things to suit todays society and drop the what is now a quasi-macho "right to bear arms"- it's not worth the shootings and massacres on your tv every other day and it is obviously more strict gun control would address this.
Im not sure all people on the board do agree...they probably realise they'll get shouted down and accused of all sorts of shit...so it takes an outsider to call it as it is.
Instead of the macho bullshit "how dare he preach to us", why not even consider the other side of the debate? Its not happened once.
And fergie, lets turn the clock back for a look at sanitary sewers...what? there weren't' any!? I have to wipe my ass with my hand!? Showers were considered unhealthy up until the 1890s. I'd like my steak without maggots please. What's a dentist? Please pass the Cialis. Walk to school? How many miles? Turn the light on, its' dark in here.
I don't mind a debate, but I won't continue if my arguments and points are not specifically addressed.
I don't have an issue with trying to see another point of view but all this talk about turning back the clock and the constitution being written in a time when slavery was still in existence doesn't really address any argument or refute anything specifically.
Speaking for myself, my support of citizen gun ownership or the freedom and ability of people to own firearms if they choose to isn't based in the US constitution, or what the founders of the government wanted. Although I'm glade the 2nd amendment exists because it has helped stop the state from restricting our ability to own guns. But I support gun ownership because I don't support any law or restriction on human liberty. If it reduces freedom than I'm against it. I know people in the UK and other European countries roll their eyes at this talk and that's fine. I put a high value on freedom and human liberty. There's nothing old or ancient about human freedom. Freedom of choice is a new concept in human history.
But I support gun ownership because I don't support any law or restriction on human liberty. If it reduces freedom than I'm against it. I know people in the UK and other European countries roll their eyes at this talk and that's fine. I put a high value on freedom and human liberty.
Agree with this 100%.
This may be a moot point but, if people roll over and allow special interest groups and left wing media to do what they want with the Constitution how soon until other rights are taken away? When Christianity is banned? When it is illegal to say you don't support gay rights? Not being able to speak out against the government? Eventually we will run out of rights to be taken away from us.
"Rights aren't rights if someone can take them away. They're privileges. That's all we've ever had in this country, is a bill of temporary privileges. And if you read the news even badly, you know that every year the list gets shorter and shorter. You see all, sooner or later. Sooner or later, the people in this country are gonna realize the government does not give a fuck about them! The government doesn't care about you, or your children, or your rights, or your welfare or your safety. It simply does not give a fuck about you! It's interested in its own power. That's the only thing. Keeping it and expanding it wherever possible."- George Carlin
Lets draw a line under it, keep your guns...just think before you use them though otherwise that 300lb cellmate might have a new bitch for a few years - then it'll only be condoms and relaxation techniques youll have for self defence
"Rights aren't rights if someone can take them away. They're privileges. That's all we've ever had in this country, is a bill of temporary privileges. And if you read the news even badly, you know that every year the list gets shorter and shorter. You see all, sooner or later. Sooner or later, the people in this country are gonna realize the government does not give a fuck about them! The government doesn't care about you, or your children, or your rights, or your welfare or your safety. It simply does not give a fuck about you! It's interested in its own power. That's the only thing. Keeping it and expanding it wherever possible."- George Carlin
Carlin also referred to gun enthusiasts as 'dickless' and said that they were 'missing chromosomes and should be thrown screaming from helicopters'
Now, as far as even having a national conversation on gun control in the US goes, Dan Hodges summed it all up nicely:
In retrospect Sandy Hook marked the end of the US gun control debate. Once America decided killing children was bearable, it was over.
In the interest of full disclosure- I own guns, 30 of them. Everything from a Sako .22 to a Zanotti 12 gauge. My husband hunts and I was raised in a family that did as well. Not one of these guns would likely help me defend my home, because like any truly responsible gun owner they are kept unloaded and locked in a gun safe. By the time I could get one out and load it, I'd likely already be a victim.
My grandfather was a longtime NRA member who was NY state's rapid fire rifle shooting champion for many years. He was a certified instructor who taught hundreds of people how to shoot. He resigned from the NRA in the late 70s when he felt that it had gone from being primarily a sporting organization to a completely political one.
There are many people like us who own and use guns and don't oppose strict regulations or controls. Owning guns carries with it a heavy responsibility. Not everyone that wants regulation wants a total ban. But no rational person can look at what's going on here and not recognize that there is a problem in this country.
"Rights aren't rights if someone can take them away. They're privileges. That's all we've ever had in this country, is a bill of temporary privileges. And if you read the news even badly, you know that every year the list gets shorter and shorter. You see all, sooner or later. Sooner or later, the people in this country are gonna realize the government does not give a fuck about them! The government doesn't care about you, or your children, or your rights, or your welfare or your safety. It simply does not give a fuck about you! It's interested in its own power. That's the only thing. Keeping it and expanding it wherever possible."- George Carlin
Carlin also referred to gun enthusiasts as 'dickless' and said that they were 'missing chromosomes and should be thrown screaming from helicopters'
I wasn't implying that he was pro gun, or at least I wasn't trying to imply that. I was using the quote (I like what he says, though I don't 100% agree with everything he believes or anyone for that matter) in reference to the point I was trying to get across, obviously failing to do so. Apologies for the confusion
@ foot...they are in jail forever, rightly so...not sure what that has to do with guns though. Lee Rigby was a soldier, on leave as far as I'm aware, certainly not on duty. He was run over then they got to him while he was unconscious. If he was carrying a weapon they no doubt would have took the weapon and shot at the armed response team that turned up...common sense in their eyes, no?
@ Helen, well put...hunting and sport is one thing, accidently bumping into somebody who thinks he's Clint Eastwood is another, and there are many examples. People with guns for "self defence" must, by definition, keep their firearms accessible and loaded at all times. That's not very reassuring...
"Rights aren't rights if someone can take them away. They're privileges. That's all we've ever had in this country, is a bill of temporary privileges. And if you read the news even badly, you know that every year the list gets shorter and shorter. You see all, sooner or later. Sooner or later, the people in this country are gonna realize the government does not give a fuck about them! The government doesn't care about you, or your children, or your rights, or your welfare or your safety. It simply does not give a fuck about you! It's interested in its own power. That's the only thing. Keeping it and expanding it wherever possible."- George Carlin
Carlin also referred to gun enthusiasts as 'dickless' and said that they were 'missing chromosomes and should be thrown screaming from helicopters'
I wasn't implying that he was pro gun, or at least I wasn't trying to imply that. I was using the quote (I like what he says, though I don't 100% agree with everything he believes or anyone for that matter) in reference to the point I was trying to get across, obviously failing to do so. Apologies for the confusion
No need for you to apologize Dude. I probably wasn't clear myself so no harm meant.
I believe that there's a world of difference between regular gun owners and what I like to call gun fetishists, or ammosexuals. There's a specific culture here in the US with the second type. They seem to have fantasies that life is a movie and they're John McClane.
This type often will state they need the guns as a defense against the government. Which kind of makes me piss myself laughing. Are hand guns and rifles are supposed to take out MBTs, fighter jets and on and on. This isn’t Iraq or Afghanistan. There aren’t thousands of spare RPGs and artillery rounds for IEDs lying around. Do they think that since there’s X millions of gun owners in this country we can count on most or some hefty percentage of them to rise up spontaneously against the Evil Dictator’s government.
And what would be the signal or the trigger to do so? Who’s going to be in charge? It’s a big country, and folks are scattered everywhere. The few that are organized probably have nearly as many informers as members.
Anyway, I'm just thinking out loud here. Like Fergie said upthread there are people here that think differently and dont speak up because they have no interest in being told to fuck off, or be screamed at. I'm open for any real discussion on any topic, but have no interest in people just spewing insults, that's not dialogue, it's a circle jerk.
Hellen in this world no one is perfectly safe even in their own homes.
Better not having them if they are locked away in the house.
If I am stupid enough to open the door when a stranger knocks I always have some kind of weapon on me.
Even if the UPS truck stops and the guy is in Uniform with a box.
Why would I do that because I heard of someone who got killed by a guy dress like a UpS guy who drove up in a UPS truck.
I would never kill an animal. I like animals one of my knick names is animal. If I felt in danger by an animal I would rather use a baseball bat on him.
These guys will never get out, there's probably a reasonable chance they would carry out another attack in prison, but Im sure itll be managed appropriately. They are fanatics and did nothing to help their cause...still doesn't mean we all need to get a gun...imagine you took a shot and killed a kid behind them by mistake and they ran off? How would you feel then?
You don't need to answer your door armed all the time! If somebody is determined to execute you on your doorstep, that's the way your going out man, just accept it and leave the gun in the cupboard. Youll blow some poor door salesmans head off one day because he reached for a price list! Then what happens? Yes...you guessed it, you're grabbing your ankles every night in a romantically lit prison cell for your new boyfriend!
I don't answer the door on Halloween. Neither does my neighbor. My kids come to visit they call first. I don't like surprises.
I guess you missed it some guy in Sweden cut 12 people up with a knife. It's not news worthy in the US.here about it merry old England?
On shooting someone far away. Bad eye sight I need to get real close prefer when standing right behind them next best right in front of them after I pull them inside.
Lets draw a line under it, keep your guns...just think before you use them though otherwise that 300lb cellmate might have a new bitch for a few years - then it'll only be condoms and relaxation techniques youll have for self defence
Real funny there but that still isn't saying much.
The vast majority of legal gun owners are responsible, have never hurt anyone and never will.
Knives and knife attacks I think are fairly common in most european countries, in fact, flick knives are legal, at least in Poland. I was a Krav Maga teacher for a long time and happened to train there for a few weeks at one point, some of the knives that people can carry were entirely designed to maim people...
"Rights aren't rights if someone can take them away. They're privileges. That's all we've ever had in this country, is a bill of temporary privileges. And if you read the news even badly, you know that every year the list gets shorter and shorter. You see all, sooner or later. Sooner or later, the people in this country are gonna realize the government does not give a fuck about them! The government doesn't care about you, or your children, or your rights, or your welfare or your safety. It simply does not give a fuck about you! It's interested in its own power. That's the only thing. Keeping it and expanding it wherever possible."- George Carlin
Carlin also referred to gun enthusiasts as 'dickless' and said that they were 'missing chromosomes and should be thrown screaming from helicopters'
I wasn't implying that he was pro gun, or at least I wasn't trying to imply that. I was using the quote (I like what he says, though I don't 100% agree with everything he believes or anyone for that matter) in reference to the point I was trying to get across, obviously failing to do so. Apologies for the confusion
No need for you to apologize Dude. I probably wasn't clear myself so no harm meant.
I believe that there's a world of difference between regular gun owners and what I like to call gun fetishists, or ammosexuals. There's a specific culture here in the US with the second type. They seem to have fantasies that life is a movie and they're John McClane.
This type often will state they need the guns as a defense against the government. Which kind of makes me piss myself laughing. Are hand guns and rifles are supposed to take out MBTs, fighter jets and on and on. This isn’t Iraq or Afghanistan. There aren’t thousands of spare RPGs and artillery rounds for IEDs lying around. Do they think that since there’s X millions of gun owners in this country we can count on most or some hefty percentage of them to rise up spontaneously against the Evil Dictator’s government.
And what would be the signal or the trigger to do so? Who’s going to be in charge? It’s a big country, and folks are scattered everywhere. The few that are organized probably have nearly as many informers as members.
Anyway, I'm just thinking out loud here. Like Fergie said upthread there are people here that think differently and dont speak up because they have no interest in being told to fuck off, or be screamed at. I'm open for any real discussion on any topic, but have no interest in people just spewing insults, that's not dialogue, it's a circle jerk.
there's definitely a culture of gun enthusiasts out there. But those aren't the people causing most of the crime and commiting all the murders.
Socal, you are dead right, most gun owners in the US are responsible and I definitely accept that, but that's only by law of averages. The fact is that the constitutional right produces an unacceptable amount of needless fatalities and level of threat which it isn't acceptable to ignore. Im not preaching or saying ban all guns, Im saying make it extremely difficult to own one. Ensure those that want to own a gun should jump through a fair amount of hoops before they can get it. No one should be able to wander around armed, unless they have a specific duty to do so.
How would you feel if rootin, tootin Footreads shot your relative in the face next week because he/she knocked on his door dressed as He-Man?
there's definitely a culture of gun enthusiasts out there. But those aren't the people causing most of the crime and commiting all the murders.
Of course those people aren't. But the lack of control and restrictions are what allow the heavy flow of illegal guns to get into the hands of the people that are committing those murders.
People will often bring up NY or Chicago as examples of places with tough gun laws that still manage to have enormous amounts of gun violence. But those guns start out legal. They're bought in areas with little control and driven into those cities to be sold on the black market. Neither of those places has border guards and its not hard to get guns purchased in other places with very lax control into the cities. Tougher regulations would help with that. It won't make it non existent of course, but it will help.
Helen, glad you're posting about this, you make far better points than I can...
Thanks. I truly appreciate that.
Edited to add:
I think there are a few common sense things we can do that would allow guns and still greatly reduce some of the issues.
Require a license for every firearm, close the private sale loopholes, and make safe storage a law.
People often use cars as an analogy, as in 'cars kill people but we don't ban them'. We do require insurance on cars though, and you have to prove you can drive to get a license, and you can't sell a car without a government involved title transfer. Those aren't bad ideas for firearms.
But how can you then shoot a stranger at your door? See, I mentioned it earlier with the macho thing, people, mainly guys obviously, don't want you locking up their guns, its like locking up their cock and you get an equivalent response.
The problem is, theres been guys "waving their cocks" legally for 200 odd years on whats now become an archaic "right". Like a lot of good things, the minority will ruin it for the majority but In this case the majority don't even want a compromise (ie tighter control), so they will lose it all one way or another - either through tighter control or more harsh judgements/penalties when they fuck up and shoot somebody innocent. The start will be trespassing laws Ill bet...
In this case the majority don't even want a compromise (ie tighter control0
look what you wrote here, perhaps the definition of a compromise is different in scotland than america because over here it means that both sides bring things to the table that they're willing to concede, not one side dictating to the other what is still allowed! what is is that the pro-gun control side is willing to give up, because for the life of me i can't ever remember even a single concession ever being offered other than telling us that we get to keep some of the stuff that we already have. that isn't a compromise at all coming from the point of view that we only lose, we don't gain a thing! let me educate you, perhaps something along these lines...
you want some type of universal backround check, whatever the hell that even means, start off by defining it! you want vast mental health evaluation, we want the right to carry in all 50 states! you want an end to private sales? we want the end of the nfa and all the bullshit paperwork and tax stamps required to own suppressors, sbr's, sbs's, select fire ect. until you're willing to bring something to the table other than kindly allowing us poor peasants to keep a portion of our current rights, kindly fuck right off!
Helen, glad you're posting about this, you make far better points than I can...
Thanks. I truly appreciate that.
Edited to add:
I think there are a few common sense things we can do that would allow guns and still greatly reduce some of the issues.
Require a license for every firearm, close the private sale loopholes, and make safe storage a law.
People often use cars as an analogy, as in 'cars kill people but we don't ban them'. We do require insurance on cars though, and you have to prove you can drive to get a license, and you can't sell a car without a government involved title transfer. Those aren't bad ideas for firearms.
While that sounds nice and reasonable, I fail to see how any of that stops a crazy person from entering a gun free zone such as a school and shooting up the place or gang members from using guns to shoot each other .
Having lisences for cars never stopped drive by shootings. When you get a car lisence, the idea is that you prove you know basic safety and rules of the road. Most people aren't worried about people not knowing how to properly use guns safety. It is a concern and accidents do happen, but that isn't the main issue. The issue is malicious intent.
When I bought my handgun, I had to take a short multiple choice test and perform a visual test showing how to safely handle the handgun. Then was given the handgun permit. But that's here in California. Then I had to wait about 10 days and have a background check. The thing is, I still don't see how any of that stops bad people from doing bad things.
The one point that I think is valid is that guns can be moved to bad areas and cities from areas with less restriction on guns and less crime. Which is why I have a bit more respect for those that argue against all gun ownership everywhere. Because in order to hurt the firearm black market you'd have to ban all guns and destroy hundreds of millions of guns. And then MAYBE, that will have some sort of effect. I don't know. I would fight against that tooth and nail, but it makes more sense than these annoying ass laws California keeps passing that ultimately just makes things harder on legal gun owners that aren't criminals. Magazine capacity restrictions, ammo restrictions, conceal carry restrictions, storage restrictions, fees, and on and on. And for what? So criminals can continue doing what they do.
Five, innocent people are being killed every other day by people who honestly didn't mean to do it. You want to stop that, or at least work towards reducing it surely. So you need to compromise. Its not about the government just wanting to take away your rights, ffs and its not about "concessions". Its about common sense. I know your annoyed because I don't live in the US (although Im over there frequently and have family in Boston) and I understand that, but you must see how things are at the moment and wonder why gun crime is through the roof in the US? Its not linked to every man and woman being able to own a gun?
Cut the bravado, cut the macho bullshit and deal with the issue, you know another sandy hook is around the corner, yet you are willing to do fuck all about it just because its your "right".. Your the one who will never compromise and thats the pity I have for you for you and the people who will get killed as a result...crazy
SoCal...a short multiple choice and eyesight test and then you get a gun??...5 year olds do the same and get a certificate to serve milk for fucks sake. Were you not concerned, worried? I suppose fear breeds fear, they've got a knife, so i need a knife, they've got a gun so I need a gun...
pretty much sums things up as far as i'm concerned! i'm done debating people who are so willing to give up the rights of others under a guise of safety and their own interpretation of "common sense"! enjoy relying on and conceding rights to a government who doesn't give a frenchman's fuck about the safety of you or your family!
Well, I only mentioned it because of the comparison with car lisences. Getting a car lisence wasn't all that hard either. Multiple choice questions followed by a short drive showing you know basic rules of the road or whatever.
Let me clear this up. It wasn't an eye sight test. It's a test where you show you can handle the firearm safely. Meaning you know how to check if it's loaded and unloaded, you don't point it at anyone or hold your finger in the trigger guard while handling it and all that basic stuff.
I won't pretend it was hard. It wasn't. Anyone with minimal experience using guns will pass it. But why would I be worried? I had been handling guns much longer before I bought my own. Most people don't just show up and buy a gun with zero experience.
I didn't mean worried personally about passing the test, I meant the realisation that it was easy, you'd ask yourself "how many idiots have guns if its this easy". Don't compare it with cars, c'mon....Footreads is gonna blow your head off if you turn up at his house, he's legal and he says he'll do it..he's not saying he's going to run over the next pedestrian he doesn't like the look of in his car. There's thousands of people who do own funs and feel the same way as Foots..law of averages...
Five, what about the safety of your family when some half blind Clint Eastwood mofo shoots somebody you know (god forbid) by mistake? Still worth it? Or you shoot somebody in the heat of the moment and you made the wrong decision? How do you deal with that, emotionally, financially etc etc? You're carrying a weapon that will definitely kill someone just by a twitch of your finger. Untrained, your a liability, believe me I know.
I didn't mean worried personally about passing the test, I meant the realisation that it was easy, you'd ask yourself "how many idiots have guns if its this easy". Don't compare it with cars, c'mon....Footreads is gonna blow your head off if you turn up at his house, he's legal and he says he'll do it..he's not saying he's going to run over the next pedestrian he doesn't like the look of in his car. There's thousands of people who do own funs and feel the same way as Foots..law of averages...
Why would it worry me?
How many times have I posted that the vast majority of legal gun owners are not a threat in any way.
How many times has it been pointed out that crime overall has declined in America while gun ownership and conceal carrying has increased?
You talk as if all kinds of regular citizens are showing up to gun shops, buying guns and running around shooting people for any reason or they're all shooting themselves on accident. That's not the case except in a tiny amount of cases.
Arguing to take away guns is a good way to avoid having to think hard and work hard at figuring out the real problems behind violence and murders that do take place.
1) I agree, its the minority, but its a HUGE minority considering the numbers involved. 2) entirely debatably, neither of us can prove beyond a doubt. However I CAN prove innocent people are dying needlessly 3) most aren't, those that shoot themselves by accident i would put down to natural selection...stupid is as stupid does. However, YOU gave them the license. 4) helen hit the nail on the head earlier...if guns are easier to get hold of legally, they are easier to get hold of illegally, basically (apologies if Im summarising incorrectly Helen).
But again, Im cool if you want to keep your guns, grab your dick and feel secure..I'm telling you though, you'll find it more difficult year by year through stricter control, stiffer penalties and media pressure. The government wont just disregard your right, but theres ways to get round it over time. The NRA will be as popular as the KKK in a few years-its an observation, so don't go crazy!
Helen, glad you're posting about this, you make far better points than I can...
Thanks. I truly appreciate that.
Edited to add:
I think there are a few common sense things we can do that would allow guns and still greatly reduce some of the issues.
Require a license for every firearm, close the private sale loopholes, and make safe storage a law.
People often use cars as an analogy, as in 'cars kill people but we don't ban them'. We do require insurance on cars though, and you have to prove you can drive to get a license, and you can't sell a car without a government involved title transfer. Those aren't bad ideas for firearms.
While that sounds nice and reasonable, I fail to see how any of that stops a crazy person from entering a gun free zone such as a school and shooting up the place or gang members from using guns to shoot each other .
Having lisences for cars never stopped drive by shootings. When you get a car lisence, the idea is that you prove you know basic safety and rules of the road. Most people aren't worried about people not knowing how to properly use guns safety. It is a concern and accidents do happen, but that isn't the main issue. The issue is malicious intent.
When I bought my handgun, I had to take a short multiple choice test and perform a visual test showing how to safely handle the handgun. Then was given the handgun permit. But that's here in California. Then I had to wait about 10 days and have a background check. The thing is, I still don't see how any of that stops bad people from doing bad things.
The one point that I think is valid is that guns can be moved to bad areas and cities from areas with less restriction on guns and less crime. Which is why I have a bit more respect for those that argue against all gun ownership everywhere. Because in order to hurt the firearm black market you'd have to ban all guns and destroy hundreds of millions of guns. And then MAYBE, that will have some sort of effect. I don't know. I would fight against that tooth and nail, but it makes more sense than these annoying ass laws California keeps passing that ultimately just makes things harder on legal gun owners that aren't criminals. Magazine capacity restrictions, ammo restrictions, conceal carry restrictions, storage restrictions, fees, and on and on. And for what? So criminals can continue doing what they do.
We are not ever going to be able to stop all the bad people from doing bad things. I don't believe that I've said that any controls could put a stop to all the gun violence. That's never going to happen.
As far as mass shootings by lunatics go, as horrifying as they are that's not the main issue. It just gets the most press due to the terrible nature of those crimes.
As for cars and drive bys, you do still need the gun. Otherwise you'd have to run people down in the car, right?
To be honest, gang members killing each other doesn't even bother me that much. It's only when they kill innocent victims that I'm troubled.
We can't eradicate the criminal aspects of human nature, it will always be with us. But we can make it tougher for guns to get into those people's hands on the black market. Many states dont even require a permit. I see that as a problem. I'm aware that some people don't. But a large amount of the guns on the black market come from those states. Clamping down on those type of sales could make an impact. Also, straw purchases are a huge problem, along with legally licensed but corrupt at home and commercial gun dealers. These two sources are where the majority of illegal guns come from. Stolen guns are actually the smallest percentage of guns that make their way onto the black market, according to data from the ATF.
I certainly don't believe I have all the answers, and certainly don't think we will ever be able to fully eradicate gun violence but if we can stop some people from being killed I think we owe it to them and to ourselves as a country and as individuals.
Cut the bravado, cut the macho bullshit and deal with the issue, you know another sandy hook is around the corner, yet you are willing to do fuck all about it just because its your "right".. Your the one who will never compromise and thats the pity I have for you for you and the people who will get killed as a result...crazy
Speaking of Sandy Hook, there are quite a few people in the US that think it was faked, or done by the government. Why? So they could come and take away all the guns. How can you even have rational discourse with people that think like that?
Helen, you cant, the word in the first line of my first post, bravado..followed up by the guy's post immediately after - "everybody in the world wants to stay here" sums it up. Naive, Bush type bullshit. I love the US and have close connections to the country, but bullshit like that disgusts me, coupled with the "right to bear arms" in the face of obvious stupidity. Why, because I see every week or month some poor family losing a person through utter stupidity or avoidable crime.
PB - this is one "right" that should be removed. Ive said repeatedly, its outdated, dangerous and misled...the NRA SHOULD only be an organisation without any real power, like the PGA, NFL etc but its got political power now - which it managed to get by clinging on to your constitution.
1) I agree, its the minority, but its a HUGE minority considering the numbers involved. 2) entirely debatably, neither of us can prove beyond a doubt. However I CAN prove innocent people are dying needlessly 3) most aren't, those that shoot themselves by accident i would put down to natural selection...stupid is as stupid does. However, YOU gave them the license. 4) helen hit the nail on the head earlier...if guns are easier to get hold of legally, they are easier to get hold of illegally, basically (apologies if Im summarising incorrectly Helen).
But again, Im cool if you want to keep your guns, grab your dick and feel secure..I'm telling you though, you'll find it more difficult year by year through stricter control, stiffer penalties and media pressure. The government wont just disregard your right, but theres ways to get round it over time. The NRA will be as popular as the KKK in a few years-its an observation, so don't go crazy!
You honestly think it's debatable wether or not crime is worse now than it was in the early 90s?? Do you realize how much crime went on back then?
I'm not saying there's proof that more guns brought about the drop in crime. I believe there's multiple reasons for the crime drop. But what the data does prove without a doubt is that increases in guns and gun ownership DID NOT increase crime overall. So if you care about facts at all, you have to at least concede that more guns doesn't equal more violence. It just doesn't. There's no other way to spin it.
THe NRA regarded as the KKK? No. Only in left wing circles is that the case. You complain about their political power as if that's a bad thing. So what? Those of us in favor of gun ownership are supposed to roll over and let the politicians run us over and pass whatever nonsense law they want? We're not supposed to fight back or be represented? That's ridiculous.
You know STDs are an issue too in this country. According to the CDC website, over 13,000 people died of AIDS in 2012( even more than gun related homicides). Sounds dangerous. Maybe we need to register everyone with an STD. Maybe get a lisence before you're allowed to have sex? That's a lot of needless and preventable deaths per year..
Well, 3rd paragraph of you response fits well with the constitutional amendment as I recall it...sounds like a militia you'd be forming there! Jeez, Id take the guns off you all right now,..your all too far gone to even think about compromise-you noticed theres not a lot of different posters involved? Because they know how rabid you guy are
Your so similar in stubbornness to these fundamentalist assholes that are trying to kill all of us it's frightening, take a step back and think for fucks sake.
You wont listen..ever...you're right, thats it. Because its been your right for hundreds of years and it wont change, even if people are dying.
By a blow up doll instead if you feel inadequate, you'll save some lives
You did not address any of my arguments at all. You're calling me stubborn and unwilling to consider the other side but you added nothing except what amounts to insults and assertions.
I didn't say anything about forming a militia or anything of the sort. What are you talking about?
That's the worst thing about topics like this. Many members has passionate feelings about a subject and too often forget that we want to maintain some sort of civil peace here. You wanna rip him a new asshole? Go to Private Messages.
Well, Ive taken the time to answer your points (and actually number them for clarity on a few occasions). Ive also taken the time to read the 2nd amendment right through and if you don't know what Im talking about, with "militia" specifically, I'm not sure what else I can keep going on about.
Definite SC, understood, Im not about to shoot in my pants over a debate and Im sure socal is the same, to go on this long we obviously love each other a bit
Socal, you are dead right, most gun owners in the US are responsible and I definitely accept that, but that's only by law of averages. The fact is that the constitutional right produces an unacceptable amount of needless fatalities and level of threat which it isn't acceptable to ignore. Im not preaching or saying ban all guns, Im saying make it extremely difficult to own one. Ensure those that want to own a gun should jump through a fair amount of hoops before they can get it. No one should be able to wander around armed, unless they have a specific duty to do so.
How would you feel if rootin, tootin Footreads shot your relative in the face next week because he/she knocked on his door dressed as He-Man?
Hey goofball if I shot Fergie relative in the face. No one would know about it.
Yep, we're a family of underachievers Foots, whatever floats your boat, its soccer in the US and football in the rest of the world, qnd Ill never knock your door (dressed as HeMan)
Yea, I was taking about the way you responded to my last (long) post. Where I didn't talk about the 2nd amendment. I know the NRA obviously supports the 2nd amendment but that wasn't really part of my point.
It's all good, I don't mind disagreement and debate. I just don't like when my arguments get ignored. I'm not angry or anything. We can agree to disagree.
Yep, we're a family of underachievers Foots, whatever floats your boat, its soccer in the US and football in the rest of the world, qnd Ill never knock your door (dressed as HeMan)
I said who invented the term it was not Americans it was the English under achievers.
. More guns=more violence...
