Holocaust Denial on Donahue Show debate

I'd rather avoid delicate topics like this, but here we go.

My opinion is that the Holocaust along with its horrors did really happen, but two things:
1. they were nowhere near 6 million that were executed. This has been all but proven true, especially the last few decades or so. A theory suggest most of them died of natural causes, natural in times of war, of course. (famine, disease, etc) Simple statistics of the Jewish population throughout WW2 years will show nowhere near a 6 million reduction.
2. Israel DID profit from this whole deal, by creating a state in 1948, which today is one of the most powerful in the world, and Jews are arguably the people who hold the most powerful positions in the world in key places.

I won't take it no further because I'll probably be called an anti-semite, which I'm not.. even though most of the members here are alright, you never know. It's the same logic liberals use when you disagree with them, they call you a racist/sexist, etc.

I'd rather avoid delicate topics like this, but here we go.

My opinion is that the Holocaust along with its horrors did really happen, but two things:
1. they were nowhere near 6 million that were executed. This has been all but proven true, especially the last few decades or so. A theory suggest most of them died of natural causes, natural in times of war, of course. (famine, disease, etc) Simple statistics of the Jewish population throughout WW2 years will show nowhere near a 6 million reduction.
2. Israel DID profit from this whole deal, by creating a state in 1948, which today is one of the most powerful in the world, and Jews are arguably the people who hold the most powerful positions in the world in key places.

I won't take it no further because I'll probably be called an anti-semite, which I'm not.. even though most of the members here are alright, you never know. It's the same logic liberals use when you disagree with them, they call you a racist/sexist, etc.

you are absolutely right!! I know for a fact that a census in the late thirties does not have 6 million jews in Europe,

what about Russia, they lost 20 million people, hitlers troops surrounded Stalingrad and 750,000 Russians starved to death,

but, all we have ever heard about ww2 is 6 million jews died, and I wholeheartedly agree with your statement no 2 also. where else in the world can a jewish prime minister influence a presidents foreign policy? its an insult to the office of the presidency of the U.S. whether or not you like the president,

they get their way all the time, im always accused of being anti- semitic just because I speak the truth. so be it.

I would ask why something that is so tragic and that is one of humanity's nadirs needs to be inflated to begin with.

If 1.5m people died it is an abomination. If 6m died it is an abomination.

Millions of Polish, Ukrainian and Russian gentiles and gypsies also perished in this black mark of humanity. There were more Polish gentile victims than Polish Jew victims.

Why is the holocaust unique to the Jews?

I would ask why something that is so tragic and that is one of humanity's nadirs needs to be inflated to begin with.

If 1.5m people died it is an abomination. If 6m died it is an abomination.

Millions of Polish, Ukrainian and Russian gentiles and gypsies also perished in this black mark of humanity. There were more Polish gentile victims than Polish Jew victims.

Why is the holocaust unique to the Jews?

There were about 9.5 million Jews in Europe before World War II

http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10005161
http://fcit.coedu.usf.edu/holocaust/gallery/jewpop.htm
http://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/angap03.asp
http://www.bjpa.org/Publications/details.cfm?PublicationID=17719

According to the World Almanac the world population of Jews increased between 1933 and 1948 from 15,315,000 to 15,753,000.

I wholeheartedly agree... it is an abomination, but politics is politics, if you can profit from something, you do it. It doesn't matter whether it's a catastrophe or whatnot. There's no room for morals and humanity in cold, Machiavellian politics.
Plus, we all know that history is decided by the victors.



According to the World Almanac the world population of Jews increased between 1933 and 1948 from 15,315,000 to 15,753,000.

When did I claim it never happened? I said it did, but it was overblown for political reasons. Those statistics are probably wrong, but so are the ones who claim millions are missing. I mean how the hell can two different sets of statistics have such a huge mistake margin?
But then again, you're taking a page right out of the liberals you love so much - by calling everybody who disagrees with you an anti-semite or whatever the fuck, regardless if they show facts or statistic and by acting like a child throwing insults around.
Go fuck yourself.

I knew I shouldn't have gotten involved in this topic at all, it's way too delicate.

I mean how the hell can two different sets of statistics have such a huge mistake margin?

In August of 1997, an author identifying himself as Bob Djurdjevic, the founder of "Truth in Media," included the following paragraph in a letter to The Arizona Republic:

"The World Almanac for 1940 gives the world's Jewish population as 15,319,359. The World Almanac for 1949 puts the number of Jews in the world at 15,713,638.

"If the World Almanac figures are correct, "the world's Jewish population did not decrease in the war decade, but showed a small increase."

The 1949 figure offered by Mr. Djurdjevic was, as you're about to see, an outright lie, as was the conclusion drawn.

When citing the World Almanac as a source for data "proving" that there was no Jewish population decline during World War II, Holocaust deniers are simply propagating one of the standard denier myths that has recurred regularly for more than a decade.

The problem has nothing whatever to do with rates of population increase or anything like that. It has to do with how frequently the World Almanac's sources had access to fresh estimates of religious populations.

Whoever first started propagating World Almanac figures neglected to mention that all figures before 1949 were from 1938 estimates. Since the year of estimate is given at the top of the chart it is difficult to believe that the originator did not intentionally mean to decieve by negelecting this key piece of information.

I have posted the following correction several times:

The University of Alberta library has the World Almanac issues for the pertinent period for 1941, 1944, 1947, 1948, and 1949. The figures listed for total world Jewish population are as follows:

1941 15,748,091
1947 15,688,259
1948 15,688,259
1949 11,266,600

Now you may be wondering what happened to all those Jews in 1948-49. No fresh estimates were made between 1938 and 1947. The figures listed for 1941, 1947, and 1948 are identified as estimates made in 1938. The source for the estimate for 1944 is not given, and the numbers are listed differently than in other years. In 1944, the numbers are given as a part of a list of various world religions rather than standing on their own with a country-by-country breakdown as in the other years.

Only in 1949 are postwar estimates employed, the figures given are for estimates made in 1948. A year or two lag seems to be common for various other population estimates given by the World Almanac.

The difference between the 1938 and 1948 figures is thus 4,481,491.

In 1949, however, the World Almanac gives a revised 1939 population of 16,643,120 giving a difference of between 1938 and 1947 of 5,376,520. Where the extra population between 1938 and 1939 came from is not cited, though one might speculate that it was based upon the Nazi estimates made in 1942 for the Wannsee Conference.

Despite the apparent exactness of the numbers listed, the World Almanac warns that all numbers listed are estimates.

Here's how - it's known as the World Almanac Gambit, and it's long been a favorite tool of Holocaust deniers. It's also been thoroughly debunked.

Lotta jews in Idaho?

When did I claim it never happened? I said it did, but it was overblown for political reasons. Those statistics are probably wrong, but so are the ones who claim millions are missing. I mean how the hell can two different sets of statistics have such a huge mistake margin?
But then again, you're taking a page right out of the liberals you love so much - by calling everybody who disagrees with you an anti-semite or whatever the fuck, regardless if they show facts or statistic and by acting like a child throwing insults around.
Go fuck yourself.

I knew I shouldn't have gotten involved in this topic at all, it's way too delicate.

yes, Voltaire said it best. "I may not agree with what you say, but, I will defend to my death your right to say it"

You have a right to your opinion. This is America. I will never try to silence you. But I also have the right to tell you what I think of your views, and vice versa.

The problem lies in those who don't agree with one another attempting to silence the other. I am not okay with that, regardless of how repugnant I might find another's views.

That's true. But you'd think you guys would have learned by now. These threads NEVER end well. And this isn't directed at you, Binnie. You and I are cool. But please don't give me any of that nonsense about having a nice debate about issues like this. Because it's impossible. Especially in this case.

There's a lot of thinly veiled anti-Semitism on this board (and I don't mean Malandrino, he's a great kid who got suckered into this so-called "debate"). And Italian Forever is a lot like me. He's an Italian American Catholic who vehemently supports the Jews. But he has a temper, and I hate to see it come out in a topic that never should have been brought up in the first place.

We don't need quality members getting reprimanded and suspended. Play nice, or stay out of the thread.

Friendly advice from a non-moderator, but LONG time poster.

yes, Voltaire said it best. "I may not agree with what you say, but, I will defend to my death your right to say it"

Nice quote my sentiments exactly (not in regards to the thread subject but generally speaking)

For the record, Voltaire did NOT say those words. They came from a 1907 biography of Voltaire.

“I don’t agree with what you say but I will defend to the death your right to say it.”

Unfortunately, the quote isn’t real — or at least, it’s not really Voltaire. It comes from a 1906 biography by Evelyn Beatrice Hall, in which it was intended to represent a summary of his thinking on free speech issues. “I did not mean to imply,” she wrote later, “that Voltaire used these words verbatim.”

http://studentactivism.net/2015/01/08/no-voltaire-didnt-say-that-no-not-that-either/