new relations with cuba.

it looks as though we are normalizing relations with cuba. we have as a trading partner viet nam, and they have a communist government, as does china and look at the trade we do with them.

Obama maybe should have asked the Cuban government to loosen the governments hold on the Cuban people, as a condition for normal relations. what do you think of this matter?

I think that you deliberately start the most politically divisive threads. But that's neither here nor there .

But seriously, the trade embargo should have been lifted years ago. But the way Obama is going about it is a slap in the face to every Cuban who ever jumped off a raft in the Florida Straits. Surprise, surprise. Right?

But this might actually be good for the Republicans because it gives Rubio a serious national platform now. He can really shine here and position himself for 2016 if he plays his cards right.

yeah, pb I can see your reasoning, the Cubans in florida are against it. it had to happen.. sooner or later, and Rubio could very well be a wild card.

Binnie, IMO this was nothing more than a prisoner exchange. A very poor one but still a prisoner exchange. There are suppose to be like 50 American criminals there who are living in exile. Why didn't we get any of these people for the 5 spies. I don't think anything will come out of his.

Keep in mind that the President has only proposed normalizing diplomatic relations with Cuba; it hasn't happened yet. If that does happen, normalizing trade relations could follow. US food producers do business with Cuba. However, the exchange of money must be handled through a third party financial institution which encumbers that business. Lifting the third party requirement and the cash requirement will make it alot easier.

Also keep in mind that relations with any country are complicated and there is alot we don't know.

well, you certainly got a point. about the prisoner exchange, that took second billing in the press, let's see what happens here, a lot of people will be very down, if it comes to what you suspicion.

Let me preference this with the fact i think it should have been lifted a decade ago. But this deal seems odd on several fronts. We got essentially zero concessions and essentially gave away all our leverage. The castro brothers are among the most wretched, vile regimes in human histroy. We should have got concession for concession with these scumbags including freeing political prisoners, giving up criminals and mariginal political reforms. They need us more than we need them. These guys were in a rough spot. Venezuela, cubas chief supporter, is near bankruptcy with oil prices and hyperinflation. We gave them a second life.

I will not even get into rewarding these guys for keeping american hostages.

It does seem Raul Castro is not as hostile (as a leader that is) as Fidel was, I really think he wants to get Cuba into a tourist hot spot again eventually. He doesn't seem like the guerrilla leader that Fidel was.

But you just never know with those fools. Who would have thought we'd still be fussing with Russia and talking to Cuba?

I do agree Obama slapped every Cuban in the fact that faced those Florida Straits (which is no damn joke in a fucking raft) like PB said. I still remember when the Cubans rioted here in the Federal Pen and took 10 correction officers as hostages because they were part of the Mariel (sp?) boat lift of the 80's and were being deported. Luckily nobody died.

I worked for a contractor one time that was Cuban. He started a multi billion dollar company out of Miami and was a Cuban refugee. The story stunk, but the fact remains his kids still run it today. They lead the lists of specialty contractors in the U.S. today doing road work, telecommunications and even line work and I hate every one of them

Google Mastec and you'll see just how big they are.

so obama is the president that slapped the cubans in the face?

do you believe any of this shit that you type?

I agree PB that it is a slap in the face to the Cubans already here but he and the Demobrats dont care about that because they don't view Cubans as "true Hispanics", in other words they don't vote Democrat...either legally or illegally. I don't have a problem with lifting the embargo, but the problem is that he did it with no preconditions whatsoever...as usual.

Yup.


Do you even know what a trade embargo is, Cook?

It must be getting cold in Chicago given the time of year. Why don't you bundle up real tight, put on a hoodie, and go out and buy yourself a bag of Skittles.

^^^^^

you're sick with racism.........god don't like ugly

you'll get into heaven with hoodies and skittles before u will being a blatant racist

you're sick with public assistance money and EBT cards.

You are a failure for a reason, cook. Just be thankful that folks like pizza, italianforever and I go to work everyday so you can remain on the couch, receive public assistance and write sub-70 IQ posts.

You're being far too generous.

OK, you both were warned about this shit. You want to continue, despite requests to stop. So go and kill each other OFF THE BOARDS. If either of you survive until New Year's you can come back and we'll see how you proceed then.

It's your own fault and your own doing.

How would we America make money from doing business with Cuba?

Thats the question that needs to be answered before we start doing business in Cuba.

Investing in Casino's and making cuba a wide open place for all the vices we love so much. But didn't we do that already?

It is obvious Cuba would make a lot of money through tourism and the other vices. How are we going to get our end of that?

I mentioned before that sugar cane can be a source to run cars. Brazil has sugar cane and they have car that get crazy good mileage.

Our AUTO industry put a stop on the idea of getting Brazil run sugar cane cars.

I think it's more along the lines of stabilizing the relationship with a communist government that is less than a hundred miles from our border, before Russia can entertain them about continuing to be our enemy. Plus I think Raul is not as hardlined as his brother was and is out to make his country more profitable instead of living in the shadows of the US with the continuing "you communist, me democratic" caveman enemy thinking.

Sugar Cane farmers in Louisiana are not too happy about opening relations with Cuba, in the past twenty years agriculture has drifted from Rice fields to Sugarcane fields down here.

Yep if we open things up with Cuba you better believe they'll go broke down there because it would be cheaper to get surgarcane in Cuba than in Louisiana. And I agree with you on Raul too, he seems 10x smarter than Fidel in terms of trying to bring money into his country. I'm sure he is just as dangerous as he used to be when he was 2nd in command, but he now knows to be more quiet with that crap and make himself look less hostile.



To be fair SC, once again it all started with cook popping into this thread (and not adding anything to it by the way) and poking the snake until the snake bit him. Just not fair to kill the snake when all he did was protect himself.

This move was long overdue. Cuba is no longer a threat to any other country. The Castro brothers don't have much time left. The embargo simply hurt the Cuban people (many of whom like Americans) and provided the Castros with ready-made anti-American propaganda--the better to keep their people in chains. Lifting the embargo (eventually) will lift Cubans' standard of living, making it more unlikely that the Castros will be succeeded by another Communist government. The GOP will make a big show, as Rubio is doing, to oppose this move. Before long, the big business people who own the GOP will see Cuba as a major investment opportunity--and the GOP will shut up and go along.

Cuba before the revolution had a substantial middle class. Cubans were among the most accomplished people in the Western Hemisphere. Castro regarded his middle class as "bourgeois," and a threat to his regime. So, he drove out Cuba's most productive citizens. They came here and are building our country, not his.

yeah, 'the rich that own the GOP will see this as a business opportunity and go along'. quote... turnbull. this post is so right. those republican rich only care about one thing, and that's profit. those rich corporations will stand in line to get into cuba. the money wins every time.

Both cook and pb have been warned REPEATEDLY about the flaming. I no longer care who started it. Both of them are guilty here and both of them are suspended.

Except cookcounty adds absolutley nothing to this board, has over a 1000 posts of trolling bullshit, while PB IS this board. The difference should be clear as day.

TB, I find your analysis right on target. However, it is only through investment that we will gain access to the island and its people.

I can't wait for it to happen (if it happens). In anticipation, I will more closely follow commodity markets, and consider increasing my stake in transportation and travel equities.

I never knew Cuba didn't have cell phones till 2008. I'm watching 60 minutes they were talking about that. Shit Reese Witherspoon looks good she's on right now!

You'd be very smart to drop this right now. Let's see if you "get it".

SC are you watching 60 minutes there talking about Cuba right now and people will soon be allowed to travel there. What do you think of Leslie Stahl was she a fox back in the day or what !

Not watching it, but she's STILL a good-lookin' gal. I'd go to Havana with her.


Did any of you see "Guys and Dolls"? (with Marlon Brando). He took his lady interest for a night trip to Havana. Fun scene in a fun movie.

Cuba was the gem of the Caribbean just as Lebanon used to be the gem of the middle east.

now that atlantic city is bust, could we see gambling casinos in cuba again ?

Very good analogy, Oli. Plus, Cuba has the absolutely best-looking women in the Hemisphere.

Hey before you find yourself visiting Cuba listen to this song.

Check out this video on YouTube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lP5Xv7QqXiM&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Correct me if I'm wrong, but haven't people been able to travel there if they had blood relations or descendants from Cuba? Maybe it started at the end of the Bush Era. I graduated college in 2010 and it was one of my old roommates talking about it.

My aunt and uncle lived in Cuba during WWll and he was working for the government. He used to meet with Ernest Hemingway every morning and install sonar gear on Hemingway's fishing boat. He would then meet with him at the end off the fishing day to remove the gear. The USA believed the Nazi's had U-boats in the gulf of Mexico, and Hemingway was helping us try to locate them. We used to hear great stories about Cuba.

Haven't watched it in awhile SC maybe I'll watch Netflix later today see if it's on there.

He met with Hemingway everyday?

La, US trade and travel restrictions regarding Cuba have followed something of a tortured path. They were allowed to lapse through the Carter administration, but were reinstated during the Reagan administration.

One can travel to Cuba. However, US law and regulations prohibit the spending of US currency in Cuba which effectively makes travel to Cuba by a American an arduous if not impossible sojourn without violating US law.

Americans cannot legally travel to Cuba except for sanctioned family visits, or for "educational" purposes (i.e., tours organized by religious or cultural groups, etc.). However, many Americans travel to Cuba by first going to, say, Canada or Jamaica, then booking a flight from there to Cuba. The Cubans oblige by not stamping their passports. However, those "illegal" American tourists have to pay for everything by cash.

so this is going to change, how TB.?

As TB and I have pointed out in our posts above, travel to Cuba can take place legally, but as a function of very tight restrictions. It can take place illegally as TB has explained. However, some Americans have been prosecuted for doing so and have paid fines. The easing of Cuba travel and trade restrictions would remove the predicates for federal prosecution, but I imagine that some restrictions will remain in place. Keep in mind that many such restrictions are outside of the scope of Presidential authority. They would have to be mitigated by Congress. There's probably alot of negotiating left to be done between the US and Cuba and between the President and Congress.

Gotcha, Thanks for clearing that up!

They actually sank one off the coast of Louisiana, German Nazi U-Boat: U-166.

Here's a link:

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/...eology-history/

Hope the Yanks get some players out of this

Hahahahahahaha omg. I'm sorry for laughing at this but it's funny. But Pizza boy and I have generally the same political views from what I see him put on here so I agree with what he's saying. Can't stand obama. Can't stand how people say he lowered gas prices and killed Osama bin laden.

if they let Cuban bb players come to the u.s, there is going to be a lot of talented Cubans playing in the majors. they can play ball. the dodgers, angels, and Yankees would be the ones to offer them the most money, I believe.

Fidel Castro was a hotshot pitcher in his youth. He and his bride took a three month honeymoon in the US in 1948, including a trip to NYC. Though it was never confirmed, he was rumored to have had a tryout with the Yankees. Can you imagine: The future nonstop denouncer of "Yanquis" wearing Yankee pinstripes?

That's interesting..imagine how different history would be if he became a professional ball player instead.

I was going to post that he also they say had a look with the washington senators, but I dont know if that was really true or not.

You know this guy was a lawyer and he did play baseball for his college

I'm excited. The Yankees have been quiet this offseason maybe that'll change soon. We need some hitters. Also at least one more pitcher.

That's how I remember the story. I did hear this from him over 40 years ago so maybe it was 4-5 times a week but very frequently. He did work for the governmental agency who would have done this and as a reserve Navy Captain, had the background

Washington (CNN)Americans will face fewer obstacles in traveling to Cuba under new regulations announced by the Obama administration Thursday, continuing a promise to thaw relations with the country the President started last month.

While short of lifting the decades-old U.S. embargo on the island, a move that would require Congressional approval, the administration's new rules on travel and trade will likely herald a new era in ties between the two countries.

Under the softened regulations whose details were outlined in more detail Thursday, Americans will be able to visit Cuba without first seeking a license from the Treasury Department, so long as the travel meets certain criteria. The new regulations will take effect Friday, according to the U.S. Treasury.

Cuban Americans traveling to see family members, American officials on government trips, journalists on assignment on the island as well as every day citizen visiting for educational, cultural, religious reasons will no longer need permission first. The new regulations allow travel agents and airlines to book tickets for U.S. citizens to Cuba without a special license from the Treasury Department's Office of Foreign Assets Control known as OFAC. Americans traveling to the island will also be allowed to use credit cards, a restriction that complicated trips to Cuba in the past.

I suspect there will be a lot of traffic between the U.S. and cuba now. eventually gambling will come up, and, the Cubans might go for it. cuba may become like china with hundreds of U.S companies taking advantage of cheap labor.

better relations with cuba is now and always will be about money.

No doubt about that.

How do most Americans see this whole new relations with Cuba thing?
I mean do they support lifting the embargo etc. ?
And why did it take so long for this to happen, even after the fall of the soviet union?
I can think of it only as a better thing but thats my opinion.

Make that Money

DP

It's a good thing. I believe if we really want to see the Castro-Communist regime fall, it needs exposure from the outside world, and what better way to do that than to get more people and cameras inside there? It can be the jewel of the Caribbean again. Down the road I can see it becoming a prominent trading partner. It'll take time though

Exactly what I taught. If the people taste freedom then they will maybe realize the change their country needs.
A guy at work always says that the US handled wrong during the 50s 60s with Cuba. He said that Cubans love baseball and had the US sent the Yankees then, to raise the spirits of the Cubans then the Castro regime could have been prevented, sort of Pingpong politics they did with China.

Kennedy, Johnson and Nixon all fucked up with Cuba. It was a part of the virulent anti-Communist culture that ran high in the U.S. at the time. The Cold War was at its height in the sixties and it was not policy of the U.S. Government or the CIA to tolerate communism in their own backyard. A hostile nation 90 miles away from you would put anyone on alert. But I agree with the guy you talked to at work. The situation got too nasty and fucked up to deal with effectively.

our relationship with cuba has always been idiotic, we trade with china, and people go there constandly, ever since Nixon went there in 1974. we trade with Vietnam, and travel there.

it has always been the far right wing who were against any ties with cuba, j. edgar hoover, the john birch society, its really been a stupid policy run by morons.

it should have happened even before we had dealings with china.

Yep, China just passed the US as the number one economy in the world. They did this by copying some US capitalist free market reforms.
Many exiled Cuban Americans lobbied against friendly relations with the Castro regime. This may have partly shaped US policy toward Cuba over the years.

Even the soviets fell because of reforms made by gorbachov which gave the Soviets a sense of freedom. The soviets weren't defeated by war, well maybe Afghanistan played part, but the people of the Soviet states chose to break apart from communism. This is also part why Gorbachov is seen as a weakling in Russia, his reforms led to the partitioning of Soviet-Russia.

The US had learned their lessons from castro I think. There were cells of students with the communist ideology operating in Turkey. It was so bad that for 3 years long everyday 10 murders were commited because of the left-right politics. But the CIA managed to keep them down in the beginning phase and even had a spy dismantle the leadership of a well known terrorist organization, which even operates today. They then backed a coup in 1980 which ended the communist ideology, taking down everyone affiliated with communism. Also they took down African and Latin-American governments leaning to the left. The fact that Vietnam was an exception is I think of the heavy soviet-Chinese support which the Latin-Americans and Africans didn't have like the Vietnamese. However the Truman doctrine did fail with Iran, Vietnam and the third world countries.

I never understood the Cuban American attitude, but then again that is their pride I think.

looking at from the perspective of ht2, looking back on it now, im sure hes right when saying the exiled Cubans were against relations with cuba, and they did have a major voice in U.S.- Cuban policy, they were wrong but, they had major influence. hes right about that.

We have become so pathetic, so incompetent at an international level that tin-pot dictators are making demands to "normalize" relations:

http://hotair.com/archives/2015/01/29/ca...ized-relations/


This is what happens when they know you are weak and you are making international moves for purely hacky domestic political reasons.

Spot on Little Nicky!

I see Cuba sees the USA as being weak as they are now making demands on USA, ie; give back Guantanamo, pay restitution or rent for the years of Guantanamo, Etc. Seems like everyone no longer respects us.

I think normalizing relations with Cuba is a good thing, but it has to be done in the right way.

Guys think about it, the Castro's are old and don't have longer than a decade or two left in power, probably less, the Cuban populace are getting more exposure to the world outside of the Communist one they've known for so long. Just a small taste of first world freedom and open markets they'll be fighting to implement changes in their own government.

I could also see an influx of Cuban immigrants coming in again

I think this is a good, well thought out post. and I for one agree with you completely.

Much appreciated Binnie